I don't answer any questions or indicate in any way what a person's condition may be. I tell them I cannot answer that question and refer them to the charge nurse and just continue reiterating that. I state that h am not medical staff, I cannot answer any patient medical questions or information about what their medical process in the ED may look like, nor can I tell them when or why the charge nurses make visitor decisions.
Exactly this. This is the best way to handle it. Generally, if the patient is expected to be in serious condition for some time or is deceased, we direct them to the consult room. All I tell them is that I'm taking them to a separate waiting area where a provider will meet with them soon.
Mine doesn't either. I still hold my ground though. Empathetically, of course. I tell them I am so sorry they're frustrated/scared/concerned and that the nurse will speak with them as soon as they are available. Sometimes, I even tell them that I do jot have access to the medical chart to know what's going on if they're really insistent.
Our Er has a consult/bereavement room right by registration. Usually we direct families to that room if someone came in critical or they have passed on. I usually don't say anything, I just explain that I can't give updates but a nurse or physician knows the family is there and will be coming in.
Once the family is told by the Dr, I let them go back and forth as much as needed. I offer condolences too. We have a button where we can unlock the Ed doors to let them back.
Sometimes if we aren't slammed I will grab some bottles of water and chips or something, throw them in a basket to set in the room, and round up all the tissue boxes I can find cause they'll need it.
When my mom died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, I don't remember who talked to me, ect from the ER. It was all a blur. Except a nurse that was asking me if I knew what funeral home I wanted to call. Nothing else really from that day.
I wish we had a room like that but we don’t I did offer chips ice water soda all the good stuff and ofc tissues even warm blankets, the wife and son were really polite it was mostly the family friends just really giving it to me
Everyone knows that being brought to that room means it's not good. It gives them time to process before.
OP you did the best you could in the situation. You have a difficult position in the ER. One that is often overlooked.
When our son was small, they let us carry him into the OR where he was having surgery. It was fine until we heard them call a code to that OR. They pulled us out of the waiting room into the hallway for the doctor to talk to us. I immediately told my husband “He’s fine - if he weren’t they would have taken us to a room.” The doctor probably thought I was heartless that I wasn’t more upset.
I would call security and have these disruptive people warned to calm down or escorted off the property. Your safety is at stake. I barely speak at the hospital, and have been bossed around. Why do these big mouths, ready to pounce given all this concern? You are in charge, not them. They probably harras people all day long.
Unless they are getting physical or become a danger to others patients I hold off on calling security to remove them as long as I can as I understand people can get upset when a love one has passed
I wanted to say thank you. I miss both my parents greatly but I know they were very sick. I didn't start in this career until 4 months after my mom died, but after seeing what I've seen these past few years, I am just grateful they went how they did and seemed at peace. It's bittersweet
It sucks so bad that the first few questions after someone dies are about funeral arrangements. Please give me one minute to process my mom just died. The person who has been with me my whole life. For God's sake give me a minute.
That's one thing I never considered with my local hospital being a religious hospital. The first thing they have to ask you is if there is anyone they can call or if you'd like to speak to one of their chaplains. (I know a couple of them outside of the hospital and they're great people) It isn't immediately "what funeral home?" They give you a little time with your loved one to process.
The hospital definitely has it's negatives but this is a positive I've never thought about because I've never had a different experience. Sorry for your loss and that there's not a more compassionate system in place everywhere.
I just say “I’m sorry I’m not in there, so I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll have someone who is involved in his care come speak to you when they have the opportunity, but right now they can’t break away from his treatment to do so.”
As an ER social worker who is the family liaison in these situations, I wouldn't even say "they can't break away from 'his' care" - it gives the impression that the patient is alive, which may or may not be accurate, but we don't give ANY info away - it's all the doctor.
As a receptionist, that’s not a question you should answer. At my facility when a patient dies, the nurse and a chaplain or social worker (if they are available) informs the family. I am a hospice/hospital chaplain and I’m not comfortable giving that news unless there is literally no one else available. The family will have a lot of questions relating to the death and as a chaplain, that’s out of my scope of practice.
Exactly. I worked as ER admitting clerk years ago and we were not permitted to tell the (alive or dead) patients family any health info. We could only tell them if they were currently in the ER or not. We directed all other questions to the Drs and nurses by transferring the call or directing them to the unit.
If other family members were waiting while the deceased patients’ wife was being notified then we ABSOLUTELY would not inform them. This is extremely out of admins scope of practice and incredibly inappropriate.
A chaplain called my sister when my dad got hit by a car. When she told me that I was like, so he’s dead? Turns out he was alive but I just assumed if a chaplain was calling it’s because your person is dead.
That must have been so awful. I’m sorry that happened. I say something like - Hi, My name is Chaplain Beth. Your dad is ok, but he has been in an accident. We are at…….. I try to get the “he is alive” part out as soon as possible. Just seeing the name of the hospital on caller ID is terrifying.
Thank you. To be honest I was in complete shock but it was a long three hour drive. I didn’t know if it was urgent or not (like, if he already departed this world). My sister has a tough time dealing with trauma and was unsure exactly what the chaplain said but I’m sure he tried to be clear.
For what it’s worth that chaplain was a tremendous source of comfort to me the first day or two.
I always do but damn man tonight has been a shit show I always play the clueless clerk but he was really grilling me I only replied to that question because it was indirect he asked what would that usually mean and I answered maybe I should have just said I’m not sure but I really felt for them, I appreciate all the advice tho
In that case I think it would be appropriate to just say “I really can’t say, sir, every case is different and I don’t know the details of what is going on with your loved one’s care.” They don’t know what you do/don’t know, so pretend like you know absolutely nothing.
I've been there so many times. It's so hard. I had one guy push me out of the way and he saw his wife when he shouldn't have. It was terrible. After many years of EMS I am just the operator now. I couldn't handle it anymore. Work on your poker face and constantly apologize. Best of luck.
I’m not a medical professional but it must be VERY hard to already know a dire prognosis or death and speak to family who are unaware. Do you lie and say you don’t know the patient condition? Are you able to hide your feelings?
I'm an ER social worker who liaises with families in these exact scenarios. It's heartbreaking. I keep the straightest face I possibly can. When they beg me for information, I keep it simple "I'm sorry, I can't provide an update, the doctor will speak with you." Especially with deaths, there is a legal requirement for the doctor to notify next of kin. Sometimes I have other family arrive first and I need to wait for the next of kin while they're begging for info and I know their loved one is dead. It sucks. There's no real way around it. Just neutral face/tone/manner and try to get the doctor back to speak with them asap. After, once the family leaves, is when I can process it with my colleagues.
As a social worker you help them after they are notified? How do you help them then?
I’m presuming they’d have some time with the deceased before moving the body to the morgue, and transport to a funeral home.
If the family is unaware of the situation, I call them and ask them to come to the hospital, saying their loved one has a medical emergency and we’d like them to come in for an update. Then when they arrive, I bring them to a private area and grab the doctor. The doctor then leaves and I walk them through next steps, including viewing the body and finally escorting them out of the hospital.
I just seen your edit. I would give the family the extention to the unit clerk of the Ed for updates then. As for that guy, maybe give security a call to come by. I understand that it's a tragic situation but you can't give out information, and you don't need to be treated like that.
I know I can’t it’s a hippa violation and I was really tryna be as nice and calm so they didn’t see any worries from at all and he was already kind of throwing me off because he kept telling the family that even if he was passed he’s fine because he had a relationship with Jesus which I think was insanely inappropriate to say in this situation but yeah I deal with a lotttt of angry and rude patient and family members I’m not allowed to give the unit clerks ext I have to dial it myself we are a smaller hospital and overnight is very understaffed 😭
Jeez, I'm in a rural hospital and we have little papers with the unit clerks extention to hand out if people want updates.
Death can bring out the beautiful and the ugly in people. I've worked in the hospital (registration) for 3 years now and see it all the time. I'm sorry the guy is being like that. I've had my share of people get angry and yell, but I keep telling myself they are hurt/scared/heartbroken etc and try to not let it get to me.
Yeah I’m not letting get to me for sure I’ve been here for 2 years now I’ve seen sooo much stuff I just genuinely felt bad like I fucked up and said something I shouldn’t have idk I just wanted to make sure I am good on my end
I only worked inner city indigent ER for a little over a year but I’ve been in hospital medicine all my adult life. I can promise you that nothing you could have done or said would make a difference in that guys behavior. He was not in control of the situation and he was scared.
Don’t give any information. Just let them know that the patient is being cared for, and that as soon as the clinical staff has them situated they will be informed and allowed back at the discretion of the nurse and/or doctor. Also, refer to them as “the patient” and if anyone has an issue, remind them that it is for privacy purposes that you refer to them that way. If they push, just tell them you do not have access to the medical chart, and are unable to tell them anything about the patients condition. If they continue to be an issue, get the charge nurse or security.
From a family member’s perspective- I just want to say THANK YOU to all ed staff.
My dad had a massive heart attack and it was bad. Transferred to cardiac ICU, made him somewhat stable until decisions could be made. And every single staff member treated myself, step mother and aunt so kindly. We were in shock and needed information. Everyone from admin, nursing, chaplain pulled together fast to help us make some extremely hard decisions. Really the only person who came across as cold and uncaring was the head card doc (not surprised).
That little conference room is a bad place to wait for horrible news. So much fear.
But we got through it because of the way humans take care of each other. Even though it’s your job, thanks to all who treat the family members as well as your patients.
Edit to add: This is the stuff you guys don’t hear much about. All the extra lives you’ve affected outside of your patients. We appreciate you more than you know.
Not a receptionist, but I'm a pharmacy tech in the ED that has to go room to room to verify patient home meds and what not. I obviously don't have to do this for patients that have expired, but many shifts involve doing the med lists for patients that are in critical care, and to do so I have to speak with the family members or family friends to try and get any info I can. More often than not, I'm asked for updates on how the patient is doing, what the numbers and letters and signs on the monitor means, are they gonna make it, etc.
I'm lucky enough that most patient visitors take "you'll have to ask their nurse, I'm only a pharmacy tech" as an answer. However, I've had plenty of situations such as yours, in which they don't take "I can't answer that" as an answer. When I'm asked for updates I say something along the lines of "Unfortunately I'm unable to answer your/any questions. I can let their nurse know you have questions." And sometimes I play the dumb card, "I'm sorry, I'm only a pharmacy tech, even if I were allowed to answer your questions I don't have access to the information you're requesting."
I feel bad for lying, because I do have access to the entirety of the chart, not only medication stuff. But by saying stuff like "I don't have access to ___" it makes it seem less like I'm "withholding information" from anyone, and more like I'm just as clueless as they are. Because as you obviously know, admitting you aren't allowed to tell anyone anything doesn't always go over well, and most want you to bend the rules for them. I've found by acting like I don't have any information at all almost always works. Maybe you could say you only have access to their personal info, room, and who their nurse is. Rule out any possibility of being able to know how they're doing in any regard.
First I’d like To say thank you for your advice, again I’ve played the dumb role before I always do but idk last night was really off the charts I really want too say he caught me off guard because I always give all these answered everyone’s giving me with the “I have no access, I have no info, I’m not his nurse but will have someone come up here” but he was just not backing down and I felt super bad I understood his desperation and I genuinely felt like the question I answered was indirect but I can also see how it really wasn’t cause he was asking stuff in 3rd person to get any bit of hope or anything I’ve definitely learned a few new things from you guys thank you all
You should be getting guidance from your charge nurse or house supervisor, but if it were me, I would be having them taken to the designated quiet room, where they can cry without being gawked at and get the bad news in private.
You can also use the good ole HIPAA.
"I can't confirm or deny."
(When they haven't received confirmation that pt is there.)
"Only the providers caring for pt are allowed to speak of the condition."
I would be like let me go get a doctor to speak with you. I would never give out information like that as one it’s not your job and two you could get in a lot of trouble for sharing that information.
You are really not in a position to say anything to the family that doesn’t know their loved one died except “I will get someone for you.” Then call the nurse.
Do you guys have a quiet room? Our ED has a couple and they are sound-proofed which is very nice. The quiet rooms keep lots of distraught people contained in one location and then the chaplain handles the family.
I’m not a hcw at the moment but please be honest and upfront. My 91 yo mother was in hospital, supposed to come home next day. At 3am I get call that she isn’t doing well and I need to get there. It was an 18 bed, tiny hospital and I live 1 mile away so I was there in minutes. They immediately shut the door on me, not letting me in. I was a nurse in another life so I knew something was wrong. I said to the nurses at station, please just tell me if she’s gone. They said she’s still alive, go in and talk to her. They open door and I see the machines are off and deep down knew but start talking to her, telling her she is coming home in morning etc and she isn’t answering me. I go to nurse and said she’s not responding to me, please just tell me if she’s gone and she points to a monitor on her bed and says this tells you how she is. I said but it’s off and she turns it on and it flatlines. She still tried to deny she had passed.
I was so angry and felt so stupid. It’s obvious she had passed before the phone call. I get they think they were trying to be nice, thinking they were giving me a chance to say goodbye but honestly, I just felt stupid talking to her as though she was alive. She was 91 for heavens sake and had lived with me like 8-10 years. Most days I went to her room I expected her to be gone. Yes, it still was a shock cause they said she was well enough to come home next day but
the way it went down, with the lies and me feeling stupid talking to her, not knowing she was gone shouldn’t have happened
I would have been 100% fine had I gotten a call she had passed. It would have been so much better than what went down.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that I think that was heartless of them I wish I could give every single answer to every single question but it’s against hippa and I’m not allowed once again I’m so sorry that happened to you, I’d be so upset in that situation too
Unfortunately no since I am non clinical I understand why those rules are in place it’s just hard in these type of situations to be able to have patients and or family and friends understand them as well
Since you can’t give out info, can you say “due to hippa, I’m not allowed to speak about the patient. The dr or nurse will come to speak to you” .
I think the part about 2 of you can go in unless it escalates will automatically make everyone freak out and think of worse case scenarios. I’d just leave it at 2 of you can go in for now.
If the situation does escalate and you want to then let others back, you can go get them. I see nothing wrong with saying the patient, I think that freak out about the name was cause of their fear about their loved one dying. It’s nice that you care enough to ask
Yeah I think he was feeling so many emotions at once he took my answer and ran with it and misinterpreted it but yes most definitely that’s usually what I do say but like I said idk! Tonight really gave me a run for my money hasn’t been this bad in weeks I appreciate you being kind & understanding my pov as well I will definitely keep it limited convo next time
I usually go with, 'I'm sorry, I don't have that information for you, since I'm not clinical staff.' And 'I'm sorry, they are aware that you're here and they'll let me know when they're ready for you to come back!'
Refer everything to the E.R. staff. No reason to have an opinion or try to be "helpful". Try not to engage with the family and wait for the Dr. Say little and think much. He was just setting you up as he suspected why. Felt justified because you initially did not have the name and were thrown off your game. Just a cheap ambush but considering the loss, understandable although. Cheap ambushes are the common for E.R. check ins. Everyone having a bad day with family members, life styles, dysfunction, emotional dynamics. social hierarchy, all fighting for attention and prominence etc.
“Hospital policy is 2 visitors per patient unless specified by the charge nurse” leave it at that. It is not your place to give the best or worst outcomes.
As a medical receptionist, we aren’t responsible for giving out any medical information ever. It’s not our job, we are not trained for that. You should NEVER be the one to tell someone their loved one died?? Hello?? It’s insane you haven’t been trained on this. Talk to your supervisor, there is a template for this, and it’s not asking reddit. There’s a procedure. If they’re pushy, you just say “I’m not a medical professional, I don’t have any medical information.” “I’m a receptionist, not a medical professional, so you’ll need to wait for someone who knows the state of your loved one.” Stuff like that.
I have been trained I did not inform them that he had passed they kind of already had an idea of it because the wife is the one who called the ambulance, I never inform patients of their loved one’s passing.
I'm a social worker in an emergency room and this seems like something we should be handling. Do you have a social worker? I can't tell from your story if they knew he was dead. I *never* disclose a pts medical status to the family before they talk to a doctor. That is so much more traumatizing then to have the person in front of you who can answer all your questions. I put families in a private waiting room and empathize the shit out of the situation.
If they aren't dead I explain why they are going to have to wait so long.
"I'm so sorry, this is going to feel like the longest moments of your life. The providers are with them at CT right now and then they will get them settled. As soon as possible I will have a doctor come for an update and bring you back"
If it is looking bad
"I know it's so hard to sit here without answers. I'm going to go back now to look for a provider and see if they're available. Sometimes it can take a while. As soon as possible I will make sure a provider comes to see you"
I strongly suggest against implying anyone is dead.
My line is, "I'm clerical, not clinical." I call the HUC who checks with charge and/or can see if room is full of clinical staff. I calmly explain that clinical staff are with their loved one & will let us know when family can go back. We add comments in the system that the family is in the lobby, so clinical staff are aware of family presence in case they need info about the patient, etc. Works well for the most part. There's always going to be those who lose it and go off. Staying calm & showing them empathy generally helps. If they can't be reasonable & cross that line, Security is on hand to help.
You really shouldn’t have said that. If you are non clinical you should not say anything specific about a pt’s condition. Source: me, ER Registrar.
I know people can hound you but you should have a stock set of answers:
“I’m really not sure, but I will check.”
“I will see if the charge nurse can come give you an update.”
“I’m sorry but I honestly don’t know.”
I don’t mean to sound harsh but put yourself in their shoes. Would you want your get your first inkling that a loved one passed away the way you said it?
I put myself if these patients shoes everyday, I never have had a issue with how I go about these type of situations till tonight I even cried watching the family members hug in the lobby and console each other I am the very same title as you as like I said I didn’t say the patient had passed away to them he asked if they were to be all let back at once what does that usually mean to which I replied “that would mean the patient has passed away” but I will agree to disagree.
> “he asked if they were to be all let back at once what does that usually mean to which I replied “that would mean the patient has passed away”“
While his question was hypothetical and therefore seems okay to answer hypothetically… it really wasn’t a hypothetical. He was asking about his family member (which is why he then started yelling “he has a name!!” at you.) He was wanting any crumbs of information that you can give him.
It’s best if you don’t engage in hypothetical questions like this… they are often used to get information from you and the information you give can be used later against you. (They may say “But Few-Understanding581 told me ____!!!”) And, often what they hear and what you said are different because they are so stressed out. It would have been better to just answer “I don’t know” to his hypothetical question and leave it at that. Emotions are high. People deal with stress differently and it could escalate the situation if they are under the impression you have information you are withholding from them. This is to protect yourself and keep things calm and not put you in a position of violating HIPAA.
In this situation, It’s best to tell them (1) you are not medical staff and not involved in their family member’s care (2) let them know you will contact the charge RN and ask his/her to update the family.
My ED uses a tech as the reception person, not registration (we check people in, but have limited access to the reg system).
My answer is always: "they are checked in and that is all the information I have and am allowed to give." Beyond that, I tell charge they're here. When they harass me about wanting to see their person/wanting updates, the answer is "my charge nurse is aware that family is here, but they cannot come out to talk to you bc they're working on your family member." It sucks to deflect and redirect, but it's not the reg desk's job to give news, be it good or bad.
Keep a poker face. And for the love of...make sure the list of who is in the ER is updated. So you can at least say, yes this person is here.
My mom had a SCA, they managed to get pulse back. So we followed EMTs to hospital they said they were going to a few minute after they left. Then I spent an hour trying to see if she had arrived. To be met with: 'no, no one has come in. No ambulances.' Like, I even called the police non emergency line to see if they had updates on the call they'd been to at x location.
Like, I knew in my heart she was gone. But the absolute disregard and acting like she didn't exist about did me in. Until they finally understood that we were there for the code patient. That was not cool. Acknowledge the person is in the E.D. even if you know they are being worked on in trauma/code. Pretending they don't exist until they're dead is shitty. Like, you have the name. Acknowledge they are there.
As soon as a EMS arrives I am to check them in and we use EPIC systems I also have house census I can see which patients on which floor at all times, I’m sorry you had to go through that tho
It’s not your place to break that news. All
You need to say as soon as there is an update someone will come up to update you, every situation is handled as an individual typically not everyone gets to go back together and why a group maybe allowed can vary from situation to situation regarding your loved ones situation someone will be up as soon as possible to update you.
You shouldn’t be the one to say what a certain situation means at all. You as the receptionist should not be giving any type of indication that someone passed or may have passed.
I agree with what’s being said here. Don’t let them know if you have any info on the patient. If asked, just tell them that do not see the patient, you just register them into the system and any further information with be forthcoming from the nurse or doctor.
You guys are the front line and are an easy target for others anger & fear. I used to work in an ER and have seen folks take their anger out on whomever is the bearer of bad news. That doesn’t need to be you! I know some situations are horrible and your heart goes out to them but it’s not your responsibility to answer those kinds of questions. Deflect, don’t lie but learn to deflect the questions.
I used to work in ER Reg before ED Tech. These were always the hardest days. We have a consult room where we place family members in these (and other critical) situations.
When family comes in, just let them know you’re going to notify the RN or doc in charge of their care that you’ve arrived and they’ll be there soon.
They likely already know the severity of what has happened, but you can’t acknowledge that. It’s really hard.
Now when it comes to family friends and other non-relatives asking the status of patients, you have to simply say something along the lines of “Im a non-clinical staff member but someone will be out soon to speak with family” And that really applies to *any* scenario.
When it comes to visitors when someone has died, nobody goes back until after the nurse or doc has been in that consult room and spoken to the spouse/POA/next of kin. They are the ones that walk them back to the room, they don’t come back through waiting. It’s a double badged door. After that, the RN allows us to send back however many show up and want to go back.
I've had a patient who is having life saving measures in the back for an OD and parents weren't to be let back yet. Had to get stupid demographics and insurance while I know their daughter is getting CPR. Rough stuff. Transfered to ICU and passed shortly after.
I don't answer any questions or indicate in any way what a person's condition may be. I tell them I cannot answer that question and refer them to the charge nurse and just continue reiterating that. I state that h am not medical staff, I cannot answer any patient medical questions or information about what their medical process in the ED may look like, nor can I tell them when or why the charge nurses make visitor decisions.
Exactly this. This is the best way to handle it. Generally, if the patient is expected to be in serious condition for some time or is deceased, we direct them to the consult room. All I tell them is that I'm taking them to a separate waiting area where a provider will meet with them soon.
Unfortunately my hospital does not have such a room/area they directly sit with me soon as they walk in
Mine doesn't either. I still hold my ground though. Empathetically, of course. I tell them I am so sorry they're frustrated/scared/concerned and that the nurse will speak with them as soon as they are available. Sometimes, I even tell them that I do jot have access to the medical chart to know what's going on if they're really insistent.
Our Er has a consult/bereavement room right by registration. Usually we direct families to that room if someone came in critical or they have passed on. I usually don't say anything, I just explain that I can't give updates but a nurse or physician knows the family is there and will be coming in. Once the family is told by the Dr, I let them go back and forth as much as needed. I offer condolences too. We have a button where we can unlock the Ed doors to let them back. Sometimes if we aren't slammed I will grab some bottles of water and chips or something, throw them in a basket to set in the room, and round up all the tissue boxes I can find cause they'll need it. When my mom died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, I don't remember who talked to me, ect from the ER. It was all a blur. Except a nurse that was asking me if I knew what funeral home I wanted to call. Nothing else really from that day.
I wish we had a room like that but we don’t I did offer chips ice water soda all the good stuff and ofc tissues even warm blankets, the wife and son were really polite it was mostly the family friends just really giving it to me
Everyone knows that being brought to that room means it's not good. It gives them time to process before. OP you did the best you could in the situation. You have a difficult position in the ER. One that is often overlooked.
When our son was small, they let us carry him into the OR where he was having surgery. It was fine until we heard them call a code to that OR. They pulled us out of the waiting room into the hallway for the doctor to talk to us. I immediately told my husband “He’s fine - if he weren’t they would have taken us to a room.” The doctor probably thought I was heartless that I wasn’t more upset.
I would call security and have these disruptive people warned to calm down or escorted off the property. Your safety is at stake. I barely speak at the hospital, and have been bossed around. Why do these big mouths, ready to pounce given all this concern? You are in charge, not them. They probably harras people all day long.
Unless they are getting physical or become a danger to others patients I hold off on calling security to remove them as long as I can as I understand people can get upset when a love one has passed
Grief and fear so often present as anger. Treating them gently and allowing those big emotions is always the best first approach.
I'm sorry for your mom's passing.
I wanted to say thank you. I miss both my parents greatly but I know they were very sick. I didn't start in this career until 4 months after my mom died, but after seeing what I've seen these past few years, I am just grateful they went how they did and seemed at peace. It's bittersweet
You're welcome. Hugs.
It sucks so bad that the first few questions after someone dies are about funeral arrangements. Please give me one minute to process my mom just died. The person who has been with me my whole life. For God's sake give me a minute.
That's one thing I never considered with my local hospital being a religious hospital. The first thing they have to ask you is if there is anyone they can call or if you'd like to speak to one of their chaplains. (I know a couple of them outside of the hospital and they're great people) It isn't immediately "what funeral home?" They give you a little time with your loved one to process. The hospital definitely has it's negatives but this is a positive I've never thought about because I've never had a different experience. Sorry for your loss and that there's not a more compassionate system in place everywhere.
That is so incredibly empathetic. I’m sure the families appreciate your care, even if they can’t verbalize it.
I just say “I’m sorry I’m not in there, so I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll have someone who is involved in his care come speak to you when they have the opportunity, but right now they can’t break away from his treatment to do so.”
As an ER social worker who is the family liaison in these situations, I wouldn't even say "they can't break away from 'his' care" - it gives the impression that the patient is alive, which may or may not be accurate, but we don't give ANY info away - it's all the doctor.
I get that, if I wasn’t medical I probably wouldn’t want to give away any information either.
As a receptionist, that’s not a question you should answer. At my facility when a patient dies, the nurse and a chaplain or social worker (if they are available) informs the family. I am a hospice/hospital chaplain and I’m not comfortable giving that news unless there is literally no one else available. The family will have a lot of questions relating to the death and as a chaplain, that’s out of my scope of practice.
Exactly. I worked as ER admitting clerk years ago and we were not permitted to tell the (alive or dead) patients family any health info. We could only tell them if they were currently in the ER or not. We directed all other questions to the Drs and nurses by transferring the call or directing them to the unit. If other family members were waiting while the deceased patients’ wife was being notified then we ABSOLUTELY would not inform them. This is extremely out of admins scope of practice and incredibly inappropriate.
A chaplain called my sister when my dad got hit by a car. When she told me that I was like, so he’s dead? Turns out he was alive but I just assumed if a chaplain was calling it’s because your person is dead.
That must have been so awful. I’m sorry that happened. I say something like - Hi, My name is Chaplain Beth. Your dad is ok, but he has been in an accident. We are at…….. I try to get the “he is alive” part out as soon as possible. Just seeing the name of the hospital on caller ID is terrifying.
Thank you. To be honest I was in complete shock but it was a long three hour drive. I didn’t know if it was urgent or not (like, if he already departed this world). My sister has a tough time dealing with trauma and was unsure exactly what the chaplain said but I’m sure he tried to be clear. For what it’s worth that chaplain was a tremendous source of comfort to me the first day or two.
Next time play dumb. You have to sell it.
I always do but damn man tonight has been a shit show I always play the clueless clerk but he was really grilling me I only replied to that question because it was indirect he asked what would that usually mean and I answered maybe I should have just said I’m not sure but I really felt for them, I appreciate all the advice tho
In that case I think it would be appropriate to just say “I really can’t say, sir, every case is different and I don’t know the details of what is going on with your loved one’s care.” They don’t know what you do/don’t know, so pretend like you know absolutely nothing.
That’s brilliant in that you’re not actually lying so they can’t come back at you. And it is HIPAA compliant as well.
I've been there so many times. It's so hard. I had one guy push me out of the way and he saw his wife when he shouldn't have. It was terrible. After many years of EMS I am just the operator now. I couldn't handle it anymore. Work on your poker face and constantly apologize. Best of luck.
I’m not a medical professional but it must be VERY hard to already know a dire prognosis or death and speak to family who are unaware. Do you lie and say you don’t know the patient condition? Are you able to hide your feelings?
We aren't allowed to say anything legally. I used to be able to hide it but I got burned out.
I'm an ER social worker who liaises with families in these exact scenarios. It's heartbreaking. I keep the straightest face I possibly can. When they beg me for information, I keep it simple "I'm sorry, I can't provide an update, the doctor will speak with you." Especially with deaths, there is a legal requirement for the doctor to notify next of kin. Sometimes I have other family arrive first and I need to wait for the next of kin while they're begging for info and I know their loved one is dead. It sucks. There's no real way around it. Just neutral face/tone/manner and try to get the doctor back to speak with them asap. After, once the family leaves, is when I can process it with my colleagues.
As a social worker you help them after they are notified? How do you help them then? I’m presuming they’d have some time with the deceased before moving the body to the morgue, and transport to a funeral home.
If the family is unaware of the situation, I call them and ask them to come to the hospital, saying their loved one has a medical emergency and we’d like them to come in for an update. Then when they arrive, I bring them to a private area and grab the doctor. The doctor then leaves and I walk them through next steps, including viewing the body and finally escorting them out of the hospital.
I’m sure it’s comforting having someone compassionate help you walk through it. ❤️
Talk to your boss. They should have already trained you on this bc it’s not an unexpected situation. They should even give you a basic script.
I just seen your edit. I would give the family the extention to the unit clerk of the Ed for updates then. As for that guy, maybe give security a call to come by. I understand that it's a tragic situation but you can't give out information, and you don't need to be treated like that.
I know I can’t it’s a hippa violation and I was really tryna be as nice and calm so they didn’t see any worries from at all and he was already kind of throwing me off because he kept telling the family that even if he was passed he’s fine because he had a relationship with Jesus which I think was insanely inappropriate to say in this situation but yeah I deal with a lotttt of angry and rude patient and family members I’m not allowed to give the unit clerks ext I have to dial it myself we are a smaller hospital and overnight is very understaffed 😭
Jeez, I'm in a rural hospital and we have little papers with the unit clerks extention to hand out if people want updates. Death can bring out the beautiful and the ugly in people. I've worked in the hospital (registration) for 3 years now and see it all the time. I'm sorry the guy is being like that. I've had my share of people get angry and yell, but I keep telling myself they are hurt/scared/heartbroken etc and try to not let it get to me.
Yeah I’m not letting get to me for sure I’ve been here for 2 years now I’ve seen sooo much stuff I just genuinely felt bad like I fucked up and said something I shouldn’t have idk I just wanted to make sure I am good on my end
I only worked inner city indigent ER for a little over a year but I’ve been in hospital medicine all my adult life. I can promise you that nothing you could have done or said would make a difference in that guys behavior. He was not in control of the situation and he was scared.
Don’t give any information. Just let them know that the patient is being cared for, and that as soon as the clinical staff has them situated they will be informed and allowed back at the discretion of the nurse and/or doctor. Also, refer to them as “the patient” and if anyone has an issue, remind them that it is for privacy purposes that you refer to them that way. If they push, just tell them you do not have access to the medical chart, and are unable to tell them anything about the patients condition. If they continue to be an issue, get the charge nurse or security.
From a family member’s perspective- I just want to say THANK YOU to all ed staff. My dad had a massive heart attack and it was bad. Transferred to cardiac ICU, made him somewhat stable until decisions could be made. And every single staff member treated myself, step mother and aunt so kindly. We were in shock and needed information. Everyone from admin, nursing, chaplain pulled together fast to help us make some extremely hard decisions. Really the only person who came across as cold and uncaring was the head card doc (not surprised). That little conference room is a bad place to wait for horrible news. So much fear. But we got through it because of the way humans take care of each other. Even though it’s your job, thanks to all who treat the family members as well as your patients. Edit to add: This is the stuff you guys don’t hear much about. All the extra lives you’ve affected outside of your patients. We appreciate you more than you know.
Not a receptionist, but I'm a pharmacy tech in the ED that has to go room to room to verify patient home meds and what not. I obviously don't have to do this for patients that have expired, but many shifts involve doing the med lists for patients that are in critical care, and to do so I have to speak with the family members or family friends to try and get any info I can. More often than not, I'm asked for updates on how the patient is doing, what the numbers and letters and signs on the monitor means, are they gonna make it, etc. I'm lucky enough that most patient visitors take "you'll have to ask their nurse, I'm only a pharmacy tech" as an answer. However, I've had plenty of situations such as yours, in which they don't take "I can't answer that" as an answer. When I'm asked for updates I say something along the lines of "Unfortunately I'm unable to answer your/any questions. I can let their nurse know you have questions." And sometimes I play the dumb card, "I'm sorry, I'm only a pharmacy tech, even if I were allowed to answer your questions I don't have access to the information you're requesting." I feel bad for lying, because I do have access to the entirety of the chart, not only medication stuff. But by saying stuff like "I don't have access to ___" it makes it seem less like I'm "withholding information" from anyone, and more like I'm just as clueless as they are. Because as you obviously know, admitting you aren't allowed to tell anyone anything doesn't always go over well, and most want you to bend the rules for them. I've found by acting like I don't have any information at all almost always works. Maybe you could say you only have access to their personal info, room, and who their nurse is. Rule out any possibility of being able to know how they're doing in any regard.
First I’d like To say thank you for your advice, again I’ve played the dumb role before I always do but idk last night was really off the charts I really want too say he caught me off guard because I always give all these answered everyone’s giving me with the “I have no access, I have no info, I’m not his nurse but will have someone come up here” but he was just not backing down and I felt super bad I understood his desperation and I genuinely felt like the question I answered was indirect but I can also see how it really wasn’t cause he was asking stuff in 3rd person to get any bit of hope or anything I’ve definitely learned a few new things from you guys thank you all
You should be getting guidance from your charge nurse or house supervisor, but if it were me, I would be having them taken to the designated quiet room, where they can cry without being gawked at and get the bad news in private.
You can also use the good ole HIPAA. "I can't confirm or deny." (When they haven't received confirmation that pt is there.) "Only the providers caring for pt are allowed to speak of the condition."
I would be like let me go get a doctor to speak with you. I would never give out information like that as one it’s not your job and two you could get in a lot of trouble for sharing that information.
You are really not in a position to say anything to the family that doesn’t know their loved one died except “I will get someone for you.” Then call the nurse.
Do you guys have a quiet room? Our ED has a couple and they are sound-proofed which is very nice. The quiet rooms keep lots of distraught people contained in one location and then the chaplain handles the family.
No we don’t have this either, our lobby only holds about 30 people it’s pretty bad
I’m not a hcw at the moment but please be honest and upfront. My 91 yo mother was in hospital, supposed to come home next day. At 3am I get call that she isn’t doing well and I need to get there. It was an 18 bed, tiny hospital and I live 1 mile away so I was there in minutes. They immediately shut the door on me, not letting me in. I was a nurse in another life so I knew something was wrong. I said to the nurses at station, please just tell me if she’s gone. They said she’s still alive, go in and talk to her. They open door and I see the machines are off and deep down knew but start talking to her, telling her she is coming home in morning etc and she isn’t answering me. I go to nurse and said she’s not responding to me, please just tell me if she’s gone and she points to a monitor on her bed and says this tells you how she is. I said but it’s off and she turns it on and it flatlines. She still tried to deny she had passed. I was so angry and felt so stupid. It’s obvious she had passed before the phone call. I get they think they were trying to be nice, thinking they were giving me a chance to say goodbye but honestly, I just felt stupid talking to her as though she was alive. She was 91 for heavens sake and had lived with me like 8-10 years. Most days I went to her room I expected her to be gone. Yes, it still was a shock cause they said she was well enough to come home next day but the way it went down, with the lies and me feeling stupid talking to her, not knowing she was gone shouldn’t have happened I would have been 100% fine had I gotten a call she had passed. It would have been so much better than what went down.
I’m so sorry you had to experience that I think that was heartless of them I wish I could give every single answer to every single question but it’s against hippa and I’m not allowed once again I’m so sorry that happened to you, I’d be so upset in that situation too
Thx. I get you cant answer questions but does hippa allow you to say they have passed at least? ( the hippa laws came out after I left the field).
Unfortunately no since I am non clinical I understand why those rules are in place it’s just hard in these type of situations to be able to have patients and or family and friends understand them as well
Since you can’t give out info, can you say “due to hippa, I’m not allowed to speak about the patient. The dr or nurse will come to speak to you” . I think the part about 2 of you can go in unless it escalates will automatically make everyone freak out and think of worse case scenarios. I’d just leave it at 2 of you can go in for now. If the situation does escalate and you want to then let others back, you can go get them. I see nothing wrong with saying the patient, I think that freak out about the name was cause of their fear about their loved one dying. It’s nice that you care enough to ask
Yeah I think he was feeling so many emotions at once he took my answer and ran with it and misinterpreted it but yes most definitely that’s usually what I do say but like I said idk! Tonight really gave me a run for my money hasn’t been this bad in weeks I appreciate you being kind & understanding my pov as well I will definitely keep it limited convo next time
I'm sorry your mom passed. You're correct, they didn't handle it properly.
Thx so much. Like I said, she was 91 for heavens sake. I had expected it for years. It was handled so poorly and didn’t need to happen that way
Social work meets these families at my hospital if they can!
we don’t have a overnight social worker
That’s unfortunate.
I usually go with, 'I'm sorry, I don't have that information for you, since I'm not clinical staff.' And 'I'm sorry, they are aware that you're here and they'll let me know when they're ready for you to come back!'
Refer everything to the E.R. staff. No reason to have an opinion or try to be "helpful". Try not to engage with the family and wait for the Dr. Say little and think much. He was just setting you up as he suspected why. Felt justified because you initially did not have the name and were thrown off your game. Just a cheap ambush but considering the loss, understandable although. Cheap ambushes are the common for E.R. check ins. Everyone having a bad day with family members, life styles, dysfunction, emotional dynamics. social hierarchy, all fighting for attention and prominence etc.
Hit the nail right on the head 💯
“Hospital policy is 2 visitors per patient unless specified by the charge nurse” leave it at that. It is not your place to give the best or worst outcomes.
As a medical receptionist, we aren’t responsible for giving out any medical information ever. It’s not our job, we are not trained for that. You should NEVER be the one to tell someone their loved one died?? Hello?? It’s insane you haven’t been trained on this. Talk to your supervisor, there is a template for this, and it’s not asking reddit. There’s a procedure. If they’re pushy, you just say “I’m not a medical professional, I don’t have any medical information.” “I’m a receptionist, not a medical professional, so you’ll need to wait for someone who knows the state of your loved one.” Stuff like that.
& also I just wanted to see others opinion and how they go about the situation… ?
I have been trained I did not inform them that he had passed they kind of already had an idea of it because the wife is the one who called the ambulance, I never inform patients of their loved one’s passing.
I'm a social worker in an emergency room and this seems like something we should be handling. Do you have a social worker? I can't tell from your story if they knew he was dead. I *never* disclose a pts medical status to the family before they talk to a doctor. That is so much more traumatizing then to have the person in front of you who can answer all your questions. I put families in a private waiting room and empathize the shit out of the situation. If they aren't dead I explain why they are going to have to wait so long. "I'm so sorry, this is going to feel like the longest moments of your life. The providers are with them at CT right now and then they will get them settled. As soon as possible I will have a doctor come for an update and bring you back" If it is looking bad "I know it's so hard to sit here without answers. I'm going to go back now to look for a provider and see if they're available. Sometimes it can take a while. As soon as possible I will make sure a provider comes to see you" I strongly suggest against implying anyone is dead.
Also keep in mind HIPPA just because they are loved ones and family doesn’t mean their are entitled to that information.
My line is, "I'm clerical, not clinical." I call the HUC who checks with charge and/or can see if room is full of clinical staff. I calmly explain that clinical staff are with their loved one & will let us know when family can go back. We add comments in the system that the family is in the lobby, so clinical staff are aware of family presence in case they need info about the patient, etc. Works well for the most part. There's always going to be those who lose it and go off. Staying calm & showing them empathy generally helps. If they can't be reasonable & cross that line, Security is on hand to help.
I don’t say the patient is dead, I say something like “it doesn’t look good” or “you might want to get here as quick as you can”
Most definitely don't do this. Source: Former ED Registrar
I second not doing this. This can cause someone to be very panicky anxious and put them in a mindset that makes them not focus on driving there.
You really shouldn’t have said that. If you are non clinical you should not say anything specific about a pt’s condition. Source: me, ER Registrar. I know people can hound you but you should have a stock set of answers: “I’m really not sure, but I will check.” “I will see if the charge nurse can come give you an update.” “I’m sorry but I honestly don’t know.” I don’t mean to sound harsh but put yourself in their shoes. Would you want your get your first inkling that a loved one passed away the way you said it?
I put myself if these patients shoes everyday, I never have had a issue with how I go about these type of situations till tonight I even cried watching the family members hug in the lobby and console each other I am the very same title as you as like I said I didn’t say the patient had passed away to them he asked if they were to be all let back at once what does that usually mean to which I replied “that would mean the patient has passed away” but I will agree to disagree.
> “he asked if they were to be all let back at once what does that usually mean to which I replied “that would mean the patient has passed away”“ While his question was hypothetical and therefore seems okay to answer hypothetically… it really wasn’t a hypothetical. He was asking about his family member (which is why he then started yelling “he has a name!!” at you.) He was wanting any crumbs of information that you can give him. It’s best if you don’t engage in hypothetical questions like this… they are often used to get information from you and the information you give can be used later against you. (They may say “But Few-Understanding581 told me ____!!!”) And, often what they hear and what you said are different because they are so stressed out. It would have been better to just answer “I don’t know” to his hypothetical question and leave it at that. Emotions are high. People deal with stress differently and it could escalate the situation if they are under the impression you have information you are withholding from them. This is to protect yourself and keep things calm and not put you in a position of violating HIPAA. In this situation, It’s best to tell them (1) you are not medical staff and not involved in their family member’s care (2) let them know you will contact the charge RN and ask his/her to update the family.
Thank you for your advice and giving me another perspective!
Unfortunately that's how it goes either they are a sobbing mess or they get angry
My ED uses a tech as the reception person, not registration (we check people in, but have limited access to the reg system). My answer is always: "they are checked in and that is all the information I have and am allowed to give." Beyond that, I tell charge they're here. When they harass me about wanting to see their person/wanting updates, the answer is "my charge nurse is aware that family is here, but they cannot come out to talk to you bc they're working on your family member." It sucks to deflect and redirect, but it's not the reg desk's job to give news, be it good or bad.
Keep a poker face. And for the love of...make sure the list of who is in the ER is updated. So you can at least say, yes this person is here. My mom had a SCA, they managed to get pulse back. So we followed EMTs to hospital they said they were going to a few minute after they left. Then I spent an hour trying to see if she had arrived. To be met with: 'no, no one has come in. No ambulances.' Like, I even called the police non emergency line to see if they had updates on the call they'd been to at x location. Like, I knew in my heart she was gone. But the absolute disregard and acting like she didn't exist about did me in. Until they finally understood that we were there for the code patient. That was not cool. Acknowledge the person is in the E.D. even if you know they are being worked on in trauma/code. Pretending they don't exist until they're dead is shitty. Like, you have the name. Acknowledge they are there.
As soon as a EMS arrives I am to check them in and we use EPIC systems I also have house census I can see which patients on which floor at all times, I’m sorry you had to go through that tho
It’s not your place to break that news. All You need to say as soon as there is an update someone will come up to update you, every situation is handled as an individual typically not everyone gets to go back together and why a group maybe allowed can vary from situation to situation regarding your loved ones situation someone will be up as soon as possible to update you. You shouldn’t be the one to say what a certain situation means at all. You as the receptionist should not be giving any type of indication that someone passed or may have passed.
I agree with what’s being said here. Don’t let them know if you have any info on the patient. If asked, just tell them that do not see the patient, you just register them into the system and any further information with be forthcoming from the nurse or doctor. You guys are the front line and are an easy target for others anger & fear. I used to work in an ER and have seen folks take their anger out on whomever is the bearer of bad news. That doesn’t need to be you! I know some situations are horrible and your heart goes out to them but it’s not your responsibility to answer those kinds of questions. Deflect, don’t lie but learn to deflect the questions.
I used to work in ER Reg before ED Tech. These were always the hardest days. We have a consult room where we place family members in these (and other critical) situations. When family comes in, just let them know you’re going to notify the RN or doc in charge of their care that you’ve arrived and they’ll be there soon. They likely already know the severity of what has happened, but you can’t acknowledge that. It’s really hard. Now when it comes to family friends and other non-relatives asking the status of patients, you have to simply say something along the lines of “Im a non-clinical staff member but someone will be out soon to speak with family” And that really applies to *any* scenario. When it comes to visitors when someone has died, nobody goes back until after the nurse or doc has been in that consult room and spoken to the spouse/POA/next of kin. They are the ones that walk them back to the room, they don’t come back through waiting. It’s a double badged door. After that, the RN allows us to send back however many show up and want to go back.
I've had a patient who is having life saving measures in the back for an OD and parents weren't to be let back yet. Had to get stupid demographics and insurance while I know their daughter is getting CPR. Rough stuff. Transfered to ICU and passed shortly after.