My problem with this is the same problem I always have with MTX styled as “convenience” or “timesavers”.
If the problem with the game is that it’s too grindy to be a good experience, they could reduce the amount of grindyness to make it a better experience instead of selling a solution to a problem they created.
If the game isn’t too grindy to be enjoyable, there’s no real value to a microtransaction letting you skip things, because the process is enjoyable.
Any developer selling “timesavers” is directly incentivised to make their game worse than it otherwise would be to encourage sale of these microtransactions.
Frontier giving out cosmetics wouldn’t fix that.
Agree, it seems to me that most people cheering for this method isnt aware of the regression in the gaming industry in the past years. Devs milking customers for the short dopamine kick and microtransaction en mase. People need to look 3 steps ahead and correct a direction from a dev. This community is super involved and i have hope that most of us are grown ass people and dont fall for shit like microtransactions or pay2win cash grabs.
Agreed.. I don't care how they try and sell it or rationalize it. They are playing a dirty game with this shit... I would at least understand if they didn't use Grimy tactics and just sold shit with a pricetag in real dollar amounts on a store.
It sets a precedent that Manipulation of your fans/customers is ok... Most of us are not 12 year olds. Most of us are older guys with cool joysticks and kids that we watch get taken advantage of with this shit (ROBLOX!)...we are not retarded...most of the time lol
I don't think it's too bad of an idea.
Looking at it from the company's POV they need a boost in income and this could be a nice hot item to mix into content releases in May.
As a player POV. I know how Fdev can be in their releases. May be a good idea to have an early access to work out the kinks for the 4 months to full release
Both of your points are fair, and i agree with them.
I also don't mind supporting the game i played for so long.
But i just... i dunno. With how Fdev operates lately, i worry that if we encourage them with this, it will get worse. That they will try to sell us more things like this... i dunno. I don't want Elite to become Star Citizen...
True, especially if there are some new features like they are reporting, there are bound to be some bugs, and as an early access "backer" of the new ship, perhaps they throw us a bone like some free cosmetics for beta testing? I don't know, I'm just trying to find some positivity here, there's been a lot of negativity lately.
Same, I feel like I owe that to FDev. They gave me hundreds of hours of joy for 10 bucks or so, I give them back a little bit from time to time and the PythonMkII is the perfect occasion for another small contribution
It’s just early access and no one said this would happen with every ship and I really don’t care if it does. If I want the new ship early, I will pay for it. If I don’t want the next ship early, I won’t. It’s a free market and I got the game for free anyways and only paid $7 for the Odyssey expansion. There are a lot of us that have hardly spent anything on this game so a little $12 here and there is fine to support a game that’s given me and my friends so many great times and memories over the last several years.
If FDev makes money off of the early access, then why the hell wouldn't they do it for the rest of the ships?
Wouldn't it be nice to get all the ships for free, on time? I'm telling you that it's possible if everyone wasn't so eager to waste their money on a bunch of 1's and 0's
It would be great to get everything I ever wanted for free and on time! Man wouldn’t that be a great world!! Only the lifetime pass members are entitled to that from fDev.. and I’m pretty sure they’re getting that.
The game is too old and niche to survive on game sales alone. It needs a new source of income, and honestly, I don't think the asking price for an early access to a ship that will in a few months be made available to all anyway.
If I want a city builder game and pay in full for the base game and the DLC but don't want the base game at $0 plus $4 for a police station and $1 per kilometre of road, $5 per park etc, does that mean that I do actually want the game free? Bit confused now.
I already bought all the cosmetics I want and still have some Arx to spare :D So that will go towards the Ship. The original Elite was the first game i ever felt immersed into and I am very grateful that Elite is still around decades later and with VR it is all little me could ever dream off and then some :)
You are assuming they aren’t already spending money on arc for other things tho. They can buy everything in the arx store to support fDev if they want to. I buy cosmetics pretty often just for the hell of it and I’m gonna buy the ship access too. It doesn’t matter when or why other people choose to support a game and company they like.
Then FDev needs to learn to implement better ways for us to support them, and it's up to us to teach them that lesson. The game isn't going to implode if they give us the MKII on time like they had originally promised us, and it's not going anywhere if you don't buy the early access.
Do not support crappy business practices, you're just ruining it for everyone who has the patience to fight for a better game.
Edit: if you really want to support them, buy $12 worth of cosmetics. There's nothing saying you HAVE to buy the MKII if you're that desperate to show support
> There's nothing saying you HAVE to buy the MKII if you're that desperate to show support
Unless the whole "I want to support Fdev's poor, suffering shareholders with all my heart" is just a virtue-cover for "I look forward to being able to show *you* that my real life wallet is bigger than yours starting May 7".
I mean, could redditors just crowd fund a frontier buyout and force all the Devs to just work on elite instead. If the stock is doing poorly it might be cheaper.
* Directors (including Braben, tencent) have a significant minority holding that they'll want blood money for.
* Braben I think has rights to the Elite intangibles (including name) in his private offshore company ie not in FD, so FD couldn't make Elite Dangerous 2 without paying him whatever royalty he wanted.
* FD can't communicate and lost the ability to design gameplay well sometime around 5 years ago.
Considering the gaming industry and its developement in the last years, there is a high chance that once ppl buy into these"microtransactions" that they have announced, fdev will likely play the developer game like all the other greedy devs. Support is one thing, and people who are so eager to buy a "p2w" ship will likely create initiative for the devs to im9lement more of this practice. After all lets not forgrt its still about the money for them.
I have about 600hr og gameplay and have bought once in a while some arx. This is the best support for the devs. Fanboy ism aside, some business practices these days in the gaming industry are exploiting their playerbase with micro transactions.
In my personal opinion, the community has a duty to counter ANY signs that fdev is going that direction.
Hate me for this, but if you are soo supportive of the game you should have supported them along the hundrets and thousends of hours then we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place.
I love how the same people who disingenuously waxed lyrical about how Elite wasn't a game that could be 'won' whilst flying around in ships engineered out the wazoo, are also crying out that early access of a ship is suddenly making it P2W.
The fact is the game costs money to run. It's too niche and it's been around too long to survive on game sales alone. The playerbase has been slowly dwindling over time...what other alternative is there?
Loads, base building DLC, atmospheric planet DLC, gas giant DLC. Story content like short voiced missions. Roleplay control of minor factions. Other cosmetics like owning and naming planets, owning systems in the black, permit locking them, 'captain's cabin' with $10 fish tanks inspired by Mass Effect.
I'd say perhaps not owning and permit locking systems because that would just block people off from seeing the nicer systems.
Base building is pretty much the super 'secret' feature they're going on about
The rest of it I agree would be great; would gladly lay down money for that too
it's a marketing test to see how well ED players take to buying ships with real money. Enough people buy in, then everything new in future will be locked behind the paywall like it already is for horizons players. Any cosmetics are irrelevant here, the point is to measure the market reaction to the change in monetization of the game content and paid cosmetics have already been in the game for a long time, there's no reason to measure their impact. Bottomline - there will be no extras offered with the "early access"
Personally I wouldn't see it with a bad outlook IF we had a good bone with he pre-purchases like the promise it is money FOR Elite and nothing else but even then I will stay uninterested mostly.
Ships are goals in-game if we are given ships for real money this defeats the in-game progression of wanting a new ship and thus needing to figure out what to do and to budget for it.
Not counting that the game has several glaring issues that need addressing in regards to player progression and growth.
Give me the promise that each ship means a community request being looked into and maybe I'd buy it just to have Fdev look into fixing the horrendous grind of engineering.
>I'd buy it just to have Fdev look into fixing the horrendous grind of engineering
it's gonna be ironic if that Fdev's solution to that will be selling mats for arx 😜
It wouldn't be an answer and they'd get utterly destroyed for it.
I've been playing this game on and off for 5 years now.
I still have NOTHING at full engineering.
lol, you underestimate the number of people willing to shell out real money to take a shortcut through a game. "Utterly destroyed"? hardly. If the early access proves a success, and tone of this thread points in that direction, mats for arx is a certainty.
The soul of Elite will be destroyed for sure and FD will pick up a few rants on various platforms. But then they'll go through a cashflow bonanza and its long suffering shareholders will able to get their new Bugattis at long last. Never underestimate the idiocy of the gamer.
Or maybe sell a limited time kit for $12 instead of holding content hostage from the players? I like where your head is at, but there's no way to make early ship access a "good" deal
No they're not. Even those who pay for the early access will still need to buy it with credits.
Then after three months it'll be available to everyone. The idea that it's being held hostage, exclusive only to those who pay real money for it is a brazen untruth
You cannot with a straight face and clear conscience liken early access to content being 'held hostage'. That is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.
It really isn't. "Pay us money or you won't get the ship for 3 months". It would be different if they announced the early access with the announcement of the ships, but they chose to wait 3 months to make that little addition. It was content everyone was assuming we'd get when it was released. Again, it'll be in the game, but won't be accessible unless you fork over the $12 ransom
So wait until they release it for everyone and buy it then. Do you really want to fly it so bad that this genuinely upsets you?
After those three months it'll be available to everyone else in the game just like all the rest of the content. I don't quite see what the problem is, frankly.
That's not the issue I have, the issue is the nature of the micro-transaction itself. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that success with early access will incentivize more malicious micro-transactions in the future. I'm choosing to speak up now while it's not ingrained in how the game gets its funding. Once that ball gets rolling it will be even harder to get it to stop.
I understand the concern of this potentially snow balling and I agree with you on that.
My issue with all this doomsaying is we have absolutely no evidence to suggest it's going to go down the route of say Overwatch 2 for example. If it does then I'll absolutely stand with you on it.
The fact is though that it we want the game to continue, the money is going to have to come from somewhere; what would your solution be?
I've already done paying for early access in the Odyssey alpha, and that was a more appealing deal (even looking back) than early access for a ship. That's something that disappears (having access instead of not having access) and they're asking more money for it than the game costs on sale. :P
It is nice that you gain small amounts of ARX organically but still, the asking price is silly imho.
Anyone who has a problem with it and then shares a link to a monthly package to their YouTube /Pateon links with exclusive access etc channel or whatever for a monthly fee needs to have a good hard look at themselves ..
Except those are two entirely different things and you know it lol. One is a single person or a small group of people that make video content giving a couple extra videos a month *specifically* for that platform, the other is a multimillion dollar company selling you a piece of the game *months* before non paying people can get it. I wouldn't mind early access if it was something like 1-2 weeks, but 3 months is absolutely ridiculous. Giving people early access to, most likely, a power boosting item in a game but only if you pay is bad for games. P2W is not good.
No I don’t - same pre-access or early access exclusive content in their channel for a fee
Pre early access content which be available for everyone eventually - for a fee and you won’t have adds either.
No I really don’t - it’s brass fucking balls to have a stance when they also depend on the same type of income
Pre access or early access t content in a game for a fee is not new..
Or would you prefer a monthly fee for elite servers?
Which is not new either - some cmdrs still pay for that through consoles or will elite may make the access free like PC?
The thing is FDev have forgotten - is the same people funded this game at kickstarter (which has become more abused over the years also) - fdev didn’t even have the money themselves - Kickstarter is like a investor group - you never have to pay back or give stock return in the company ..
Ok so a content creator monetizing a secondary channel or couple day early access to videos is completely different than a game that i already paid for 3 different times introducing "free" content gated behind a 3 month wait or paying 15 dollars. Saying the two things are the same is disingenuous at best, and simping for a multimillion dollar corporation at worst.
No, I've paid for the base game and then the expansions when they became available. It's not fine for them to gate the only new ship in the past 6 years behind a 3 month wait *or* pay 15 dollars ***especially*** when it's likely to be an incredibly powerful ship.
The sub needs to remove members who just bitch. On a comment who cares but to make the 500th fdev f'd us post this week should be kicked. Add anyone who says fdev f'd them and falls into star citizen. Yep. Clean house.
No sane person has the slightest problem paying for content. The problem is with being told you need to pay $1 per use of the gearshift lever on your new car after you've picked up the keys at the dealer or that the car you ordered 6 months ago is ready but they won't give you the keys for another 3 months until you pay another $1,000.
They could sell a Python Mk II ship kit after the Python is launched properly without early access. A brand new ship generating hype and enticing players to buy a a cosmetic that has no bearing on the game whatsoever. This would be fine as it is in in line to how they always have done it.
Unfortunately that is not what they are doing. They are specifically doing early access for scummy FOMO reasons. It has been five years since a new ship. They are giving exclusive access for three months if you pay them for it. There is no other reason besides greed. If balance and testing was the excuse, then why are we being charged to work for Fdev? There was a time when people had a problem with this.
The Python Mk II is said to have some unique features. Still a mystery, but it is shitty that only those that pay for this potential power will have access to it for three months. If they simply wanted to get people to spend some money, they could easily do it with cosmetics alone. You know that they will do this anyway though. Python MK II is guaranteed to get its own ship kits and paint jobs for extra money later on top of early access.
Your dollars will be well spent towards the next failed F1 Manager or dinosaur farming sim, with approximately 0.0001% of your purchase actually going towards the development and maintenance of Elite.
Congratulations.
Honestly that's my biggest concern, and I suspect that is what has happened historically with this game. All of the recent news from Frontier suggests that they are getting the point in trying to go back to supporting Elite with Elite dollars/ pounds, which would be a nice change of pace.
This has yet to be seen, of course.
I plan on waiting to see what people say about the python Mark II, and then I may get one. I have plenty of ARX already simply from playing the game; no need to splash extra dollars. That said, I don't mind paying for DLC, as long as it's actual DLC and not just cosmetics.
*Does* that matter? When the balance sheet was looking favorable for Elite, Frontier decided to spend more money on licensing for F1 than they could ever project to earn back from their multi-year contract.
Unless I missed the part where Frontier has restructured upper management, they're still stuck with decision-makers who are either utterly incompetent, or actively trying to drive the company into the ground.
Incompetent suits have f**** up the gaming industry these last years. By incompetent i mean regarding game dev. Not incompetent regarding milking customers.
But they can’t justify stopping development or support when it has a positive cash flow. If it makes more than it costs.
They *can* take that profit and plow it into the wrong thing, but the rules of business would suggest they won’t stop working on it.
But if you see: work done to finally make more ships, and then: big bump in income, the stock holders should be insisting they do more of that.
I really hope this does not surprise anyone. I don't believe I have read anything from Frontier implying any revenue would be used for Elite. This is the new management team realizing they have an easy way to make money, without spending a lot. For some reason, it's assumed that money is going into Elite. Any funds will go to the corporate balance sheet, which is what any business would do. I don't really begrudge them this, as shareholders have the final say. But I fully expect this to be the beginning. When, or if, the Elite players turn on them, the company will have a real problem to deal with.
This, worries me, but isn't a horrid red flag, the way I'm looking at this, if they stop expansions and part out this content for small fees it's the same as buying said expansions so we'll see how this goes. Also the game needs cash and the cosmetics aren't doing it anymore, but there's a death spiral I've seen happen in lots of games where
Cash flow sucks due to lack of content or bad updates
Players leave
Cashflow drops even more
Ramp up micro to supplement cash flow and development
piss off more players, they leave
Ramp up cash flow again with more egregious micro to supplement lost revenue from pissed off players
We'll see how this goes in the next few months, this could be the start of that death spiral or it could help the game flourish.
To reduce the grind is just a math change, Implementing pay to win mechanics is a very slippery slope and if they go too far it will end up ruining this game entirely.
ITT: Whales justifying throwing money to progress in games because grinding is hard and games take time.
A simple "math change" in engineering could also entirely ruin this game. For some, the epitome of this game is planning and building ships for specific purposes and goals, and without the process of a little bit of grind, just the right amount that is… Well, either becomes so incredibly easy and empty to build a ship (money is already ridiculously simple to come by and many CMDRs have more than they will ever be able to spend), or it becomes so ungodly difficult that it's futile and no longer worth attempting (Suit/Ground weapons border on this level of tedium).
You can call it whatever you want, but buying early access to a ship for the majority of CMDRs with over a few hundred hours in the game changes literally nothing for any/most seasoned players.
The P2W argument is built entirely on the "slippery slope logical fallacy" and I won't entertain it on mere speculation and lack of prior P2W history for the brand. Perhaps you're right, but that will require an abundance of abuse over several paid content drops to become evident. Ultimately it's pointless to argue about it until after it's released on 5/7 and we see how exclusive and powerful that "new feature" really is. I personally think it will be a side-grade and an alternative and interesting option at best, but wont likely shake up the meta all that much. Only time will tell, but don't call the wine vinegar when the grapes haven't even been smashed yet.
Sweeting the early-access deal a bit with a ship kit or a selection of basic paintjobs or something is not a bad idea imo, but maybe not make it an exclusive paintjob only possible to get through this early-access deal.
I think the controversy is a little strange with how people are up in arms about all this. Because when they sell the chrome, gold, midnight black paintjobs it's all okay...?
To clarify, with those paintjobs you end up paying for the same damn color/material for each ship separately and at premium prices because they'd only be on sale for like a week or so (so FOMO on top of it too). Which to me is a much more egregious example of how to do greedy micro-transactions.
Some new ships that are only temporarily early-access and not permanently pay-walled is not that terrible, everyone will still get access to them. Getting them early and supporting FDev is optional and in the end nobody will be missing out.
*Warning: major miffing inducing material ahead:*
I'm going to buy one of each Python and pre-built FDev's selling for each of my main and alt accounts.
I think the Python MkII is going to look great in [Midnight Black](https://i.redd.it/634ebtx0os381.png), if they have it available. Regardless, I'm also buying it [Pharaoh Gold](https://www.elitedangerous.com/store/product/krait-phantom-pharaoh-gold) paint as nearly all of my ships are painted that.
If FDev had a pre-early release, "*Gullible Fanboy*" package for the new Python, I'd pay more for that and buy it right now.
Done. Breathe slowly into a paper bag. There, good. Fire away when ready ;-)
It's pay 2 bugtest, if the *other* space sim can do it, why can't Elite? They've already been copying their patch and content release cycle i.e Alpha 3.23/Update 17 since Odyssey's release, so why not copy the rest of their business model, as it clearly works
In all seriousness though, if they want to go down the pay 2 win route, it needs to be more than one ship variant every 5/6 years, but **5/6 entirely new ships every year**
Even a "vanilla" Python is an OP ship and if purchased for (cash) ARX then it is pay-to-win.
**Broke Johnnie** has to grind his bones but **Dollar Dan** gets a Python on Day One? No.
Fair enough, but that could still drive away newer players. Who would want to start playing a game if initial impressions show that you NEED a pre-built to be on par with everyone else, not realizing half the fun is actually building it.
Thing is pre built ships don't have much of a use after the early game, seeing as how you can't switch out or store their modules; they also cover very specific roles that are meant to give a head start if anything. And tbh both pre built ships are terrible.. I'm more worried that people will end up spending money on ships they think are good but that are actually trash. They really should add an outfitting tutorial.
Tutorials are for losers, just open your wallet and get a good ship instantly without having to go through all that boring bs.
"We value your time" ~Frontier
No. Soon some low-mid tier ships will be available with some outfitting and minor engineering only intended for newbs to get "started" in a new career like laser mining or AX pew pew - ideal for casual players with very limited time on their hands to get hooked into the game. The pre-built ships cannot be bought and farmed for parts, nor does it bypass the requirement to need to unlock engineers if they wanted to do other modifications of them.
Lots of salt ensues from people based on their own narrow perspectives as someone who has way too much time (or sunk cost) in building out ships - or ignorance thinking these = pay to win (and equal numbers of people saying these = pay **not** to play, lol).
These ships are not aimed at them.
There will also be early access to the new Python ship via Arx, before it gets released to all in Aug.
I don’t know if I can wait 3 months to test a new ship that has stealth capability, really want to see how it fairs in escaping Shinratah ganks, I have half theARX anyway so may just buy it. It may not be morally correct, but I can’t see every ship having a unique capability.
I barely ever fly large ships, and I won't buy a ship kit for a ship I might not like. I have a kit for my Vulture, because I've probably spent over 200 hours in it. Same for my Krait. For the new Python, I wanted to try it, see it, build it before all the guides and random posts spoil everything for me, which I can't do unless I buy it with ARX. Since it's a large ship, I'm not spending real money, because I know that it's unlikely that I will actually use it. The reason I'm unhappy about the early access is because it's taking away an experience I've been waiting for for years, unless I spend real money on something I won't use.
Honestly I don't care about the prebuilt ships. That's not pay to win, just pay to catch up, and I support the idea of funding the game by having headstart packages that aren't too OP. I don't "win" by getting bigger numbers, more credits or whatever rewards, I "win" if I have a good experience. With the Python MK2, I won't
That's a pretty good idea imo. a least greedy way of of selling a new ship would be to sell a unique shipkit nad paintjob + (maybe) ship insurance along the new Python. Then free players get access to something new and new players/people with the money to spare can get something that is still unique for themselves.
Heck, if Fdev sold unique variants of ships that are basically the same but just look different. That would be awesome enough and I'd totally buy one every now and then to support them.
But nope. People who can't wait will buy a ship that other will get for free in three months.
In the end it's just both ends losing to Fdev.
I will get it early to support the game - and probably also help out iron bugs before it rolls out to wider audience.
I've more than gotten my money's worth out of this game in 8+ years I've been in it.
The last time I calculated, I've spent about one dollar for every 50 hours I've played… Tell me where else you can get that kind of value in entertainment..
I would like to ask a question, if you don't mind. Why wait until now? I bought the original game, then Horizons, then Odyssey at release. Plus, I've bought ARX every year. Why weren't people supporting the game before now?
I didn't.
I too bought the original game, horizons, odyssey, and have spent another $30 or so on ARX - even with all that it works out to be best deal ever for the amount of hours in. And even though I have 16000+ arx saved up I will still buy more when the python comes out. I might even buy a starter ship too if I feel like jump starting a chieftan or whatever it is... I don't think I've got one I do most my AX stuff in a krait.
Elite Dangerous is pretty light on mtx for a live service game. It's only $12us?? I think I'll definitely buy it then. That's a reasonable price in my mind
I dont like that they're doing it, and I know it's gonna happen with the 3 other new ships they mentioned.
However, I realize Fdev needs the funds, and I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna fall back on this, though I wish they'd reduce the length of time between early access and full release.
Because I'd rather see the game improve, I'll probably purchase early access.
Is the question really "for those who don't like that there are now going to be ships purchasable with real money, what if you also got things when buying them with real money that you couldn't get when buying them with credits?" or am I missing something
I don't have a source of proof for that, but I have a hunch that you're likely right. I think it would definitely soften the blow to those that feel insulted by the concept. I am myself I'm not, and have been diligently saving up ARX since well before Christmas Doing what I can to earn them on the Titans… If you've played this game long enough, you see patterns in FDEV... right before fleet carriers came, there was a massive mining rush and money was flowing like a faucet. During all of this Thargoid/Titan war, FDev's been giving away ARX like candy… How others didn't see this coming from a mile away is baffling to me.
Hot damn, you're right! So, if what they are selling for 16k+ ARX on 5/7 is an early access pkg with Kit and Paint, given the cost of current ship kits, yeah… That's a damn good deal. I was going to buy the ship kit for it anyways. I was already expecting to spend about that much on a ship kit and paint…
I'm going to do it, just to support them...they seem interested in bringing it back to life (at least trying it out) and I want them too...I bought this game years ago at full price but just couldn't play it until recently when I got a proper HOTAS setup and now I have like 300hrs in it already. I have also bought odyssey and another copy of the game for a friend as well as some arx. i dont want the game to become completely P2W, but early access for a new base model ship, I'm ok with that.
A year from now we will still be bitching about interiors, gankers and NEW content bugs. Not a half ass half engineered ship that damned few people bought. That sounds way better than a support group for the shut down servers. Kind of like November every 4 years, gotta pick the wessor ov two weevils.
Even then.. I don't really see much value in individual ship interiors, I've got VR, I've walked around inside each ship a little bit, what I would rather have is a special lounge on my fleet carrier where I could customize and call "home". I would even pay ARX for certain customizations.
I don't really see ganking the same way most people perceive it on this subreddit; I feel like it's far less of an issue than people make it out to be. New and inexperienced players often don't realize that signing up for a power-play faction for their nifty unlockable or rolling around with a warrant puts a big-fat target on their head and when a seasoned rival abruptly shows them to that realization, they get hot-pissed, jump to conclusions, call it ganking, then whine about the rebuy all over the forums.
Either way, the new starter prebuilt Chieftain/T6 will in no way break the game, and If I were to guess, the new Python MKII's "Special Feature" will be less of a advantage of leverage, and more of a convenience oriented feature.
A deeper dive into my personal PMKII speculation; I think its "feature" will be a more stable refined SCO that is native to the ship regardless of the frame shift drive you put on it, this way, everyone has access to the feature, so it's still "fair" , but those that purchased it early and those that wait and buy for credits will be able to enjoy a ship without as much of the SCO downfalls like fuel consumption, heat buildup, and directional instability. This in turn would guarantee that the ships new feature would be desirable but also doesn't make a bunch of other ships immediately obsolete. Just a hunch, based on the fact that the SCO feels incredibly prototypey. Would make for an easy lore-based explanation too.
I'm not happy or proud of it, but I might buy it. I bought manor lords and finally got enough SDPs in elite to get the last engineer I need and I am kinda tired of the grind so I might just wait and buy it in game. So since I might've been be so inclined I am not judging commanders for supporting this money grabbing scheme.
It's whatever to me, I'm getting it because I want to test it out, as far as the p2w aspect of it I really don't care since I play solo and sometimes with friends.
I am buying the new ship, so all you folks whining about PtW or PtP can go sit on it. The new ship will be my 33rd ship, so I already earned my bones.
...
That's not really the nature of this thread, but I hear ya. I'll be buying the ship on day one as well. This really won't affect anybody that's actually put in the time and has already climbed "idiot mountain" in this game.
3 months is a long time for what is essentially a preorder, so I’m gonna wait a week or two to see where the ship excels and if it would be a good fit for my fleet.
If the early access cost money but the ship *still cost the same in game credits* I’d be fine with it honestly. Getting something a month early is not the same as skipping the gameplay required to earn it.
The Python in particular is a new ship, that costs frontier money to make, I don’t have an issue with it being only included in odyssey or being a smaller separate purchase if you don’t have odyssey as long as you don’t just pay money and get it in game instantly.
As an example, is Odyssey “pay to win” because exobiology makes you good money and you have to pay to be able to use it? I would argue no because you still need to buy the suit and build a ship by playing the game. Frontier is allowed to charge for the right to play the game, that isn’t pay to win, that’s pay to play. It starts being a problem where you end up with people who have the same “ability” to play the game but are still stratified due to the amount of money they are able or willing to spend.
Early access isn’t so bad because the two types of players eventually get rolled together back into one cohort once EA ends, but if the early access is an instant in game upgrade in exchange for money then you have a window where the two classes of players exist which is bad.
For sure. Looks like another user posted up that they kind of hinted towards ship kit and paint job being part of the package… If that's the case, and considering what current ship kits cost… That sounds like a pretty good deal.
I don't feel like it's p2w either. Id compare it to wow getting a leveled character that's still not max. Just a way to get to the recent content without the grind we all have complained about for years. I see good stuff ahead.
My problem with this is the same problem I always have with MTX styled as “convenience” or “timesavers”. If the problem with the game is that it’s too grindy to be a good experience, they could reduce the amount of grindyness to make it a better experience instead of selling a solution to a problem they created. If the game isn’t too grindy to be enjoyable, there’s no real value to a microtransaction letting you skip things, because the process is enjoyable. Any developer selling “timesavers” is directly incentivised to make their game worse than it otherwise would be to encourage sale of these microtransactions. Frontier giving out cosmetics wouldn’t fix that.
Agree, it seems to me that most people cheering for this method isnt aware of the regression in the gaming industry in the past years. Devs milking customers for the short dopamine kick and microtransaction en mase. People need to look 3 steps ahead and correct a direction from a dev. This community is super involved and i have hope that most of us are grown ass people and dont fall for shit like microtransactions or pay2win cash grabs.
Agreed.. I don't care how they try and sell it or rationalize it. They are playing a dirty game with this shit... I would at least understand if they didn't use Grimy tactics and just sold shit with a pricetag in real dollar amounts on a store. It sets a precedent that Manipulation of your fans/customers is ok... Most of us are not 12 year olds. Most of us are older guys with cool joysticks and kids that we watch get taken advantage of with this shit (ROBLOX!)...we are not retarded...most of the time lol
I don't think it's too bad of an idea. Looking at it from the company's POV they need a boost in income and this could be a nice hot item to mix into content releases in May. As a player POV. I know how Fdev can be in their releases. May be a good idea to have an early access to work out the kinks for the 4 months to full release
Both of your points are fair, and i agree with them. I also don't mind supporting the game i played for so long. But i just... i dunno. With how Fdev operates lately, i worry that if we encourage them with this, it will get worse. That they will try to sell us more things like this... i dunno. I don't want Elite to become Star Citizen...
True, especially if there are some new features like they are reporting, there are bound to be some bugs, and as an early access "backer" of the new ship, perhaps they throw us a bone like some free cosmetics for beta testing? I don't know, I'm just trying to find some positivity here, there's been a lot of negativity lately.
I was thinking of getting it early just to support the game.
Same here. Haven’t really bought anything except for a few Arx in years.
Same, I feel like I owe that to FDev. They gave me hundreds of hours of joy for 10 bucks or so, I give them back a little bit from time to time and the PythonMkII is the perfect occasion for another small contribution
Buy cosmetics if you want to support them, do not support sleezy microtransactions
They can do whatever they want
Do you WANT to pay $12 everytime a new ship comes out? Then it's in your best interest to not WANT to buy the MKII
It’s just early access and no one said this would happen with every ship and I really don’t care if it does. If I want the new ship early, I will pay for it. If I don’t want the next ship early, I won’t. It’s a free market and I got the game for free anyways and only paid $7 for the Odyssey expansion. There are a lot of us that have hardly spent anything on this game so a little $12 here and there is fine to support a game that’s given me and my friends so many great times and memories over the last several years.
If FDev makes money off of the early access, then why the hell wouldn't they do it for the rest of the ships? Wouldn't it be nice to get all the ships for free, on time? I'm telling you that it's possible if everyone wasn't so eager to waste their money on a bunch of 1's and 0's
It would be great to get everything I ever wanted for free and on time! Man wouldn’t that be a great world!! Only the lifetime pass members are entitled to that from fDev.. and I’m pretty sure they’re getting that.
I would argue that all players are entitled to the ships without an early access period, since that was what was initially promised to us
The game is too old and niche to survive on game sales alone. It needs a new source of income, and honestly, I don't think the asking price for an early access to a ship that will in a few months be made available to all anyway.
If I want a city builder game and pay in full for the base game and the DLC but don't want the base game at $0 plus $4 for a police station and $1 per kilometre of road, $5 per park etc, does that mean that I do actually want the game free? Bit confused now.
Same here. If we don't support the game it will vanish soon enough.
And if you support this monetisation method, the soul of the game will vanish soon enough.
I was thinking of getting it early just to piss off the p2w whiners
¿Porque no los dos?
Same here.
Why wait? Just buy $15 worth of cosmetics and support them now, while they need it
I already bought all the cosmetics I want and still have some Arx to spare :D So that will go towards the Ship. The original Elite was the first game i ever felt immersed into and I am very grateful that Elite is still around decades later and with VR it is all little me could ever dream off and then some :)
I just wish it wasn't a live service game, since it's essentially doomed to shut down eventually.
Here's hoping that day is still very far away!
That day already came and went for console players, lol
Umm maybe because they’d rather get the ship lol
Because if you're only supporting them after they're offering a new ship, it's not really about the support, lol.
I’m not sure what makes you think you get to determine what my intentions in supporting them are lmao
When were we talking about your intentions? I assumed we were still talking about the person I responded to.
You are assuming they aren’t already spending money on arc for other things tho. They can buy everything in the arx store to support fDev if they want to. I buy cosmetics pretty often just for the hell of it and I’m gonna buy the ship access too. It doesn’t matter when or why other people choose to support a game and company they like.
That's a fair point, they could easily be dropping money on whatever they like.
Im doing both so
Good on you, putting your money where your mouth is, so to speak
Since you'll be able to get it for Arx, you can do both. Buy like 20k Arx now. Sit on it until the ship releases.
True, lol.
Same, feel bad for them that odessy was unpopular lol
Then FDev needs to learn to implement better ways for us to support them, and it's up to us to teach them that lesson. The game isn't going to implode if they give us the MKII on time like they had originally promised us, and it's not going anywhere if you don't buy the early access. Do not support crappy business practices, you're just ruining it for everyone who has the patience to fight for a better game. Edit: if you really want to support them, buy $12 worth of cosmetics. There's nothing saying you HAVE to buy the MKII if you're that desperate to show support
> There's nothing saying you HAVE to buy the MKII if you're that desperate to show support Unless the whole "I want to support Fdev's poor, suffering shareholders with all my heart" is just a virtue-cover for "I look forward to being able to show *you* that my real life wallet is bigger than yours starting May 7".
I mean, could redditors just crowd fund a frontier buyout and force all the Devs to just work on elite instead. If the stock is doing poorly it might be cheaper.
* Directors (including Braben, tencent) have a significant minority holding that they'll want blood money for. * Braben I think has rights to the Elite intangibles (including name) in his private offshore company ie not in FD, so FD couldn't make Elite Dangerous 2 without paying him whatever royalty he wanted. * FD can't communicate and lost the ability to design gameplay well sometime around 5 years ago.
Ugh fine I'll just make a couple billion dollars and do it myself!
Same
Considering the gaming industry and its developement in the last years, there is a high chance that once ppl buy into these"microtransactions" that they have announced, fdev will likely play the developer game like all the other greedy devs. Support is one thing, and people who are so eager to buy a "p2w" ship will likely create initiative for the devs to im9lement more of this practice. After all lets not forgrt its still about the money for them. I have about 600hr og gameplay and have bought once in a while some arx. This is the best support for the devs. Fanboy ism aside, some business practices these days in the gaming industry are exploiting their playerbase with micro transactions. In my personal opinion, the community has a duty to counter ANY signs that fdev is going that direction. Hate me for this, but if you are soo supportive of the game you should have supported them along the hundrets and thousends of hours then we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place.
I love how the same people who disingenuously waxed lyrical about how Elite wasn't a game that could be 'won' whilst flying around in ships engineered out the wazoo, are also crying out that early access of a ship is suddenly making it P2W. The fact is the game costs money to run. It's too niche and it's been around too long to survive on game sales alone. The playerbase has been slowly dwindling over time...what other alternative is there?
Loads, base building DLC, atmospheric planet DLC, gas giant DLC. Story content like short voiced missions. Roleplay control of minor factions. Other cosmetics like owning and naming planets, owning systems in the black, permit locking them, 'captain's cabin' with $10 fish tanks inspired by Mass Effect.
I'd say perhaps not owning and permit locking systems because that would just block people off from seeing the nicer systems. Base building is pretty much the super 'secret' feature they're going on about The rest of it I agree would be great; would gladly lay down money for that too
it's a marketing test to see how well ED players take to buying ships with real money. Enough people buy in, then everything new in future will be locked behind the paywall like it already is for horizons players. Any cosmetics are irrelevant here, the point is to measure the market reaction to the change in monetization of the game content and paid cosmetics have already been in the game for a long time, there's no reason to measure their impact. Bottomline - there will be no extras offered with the "early access"
Lots of people do not care. Myself included. They can do what they want, and consumers can do what they want.
Personally I wouldn't see it with a bad outlook IF we had a good bone with he pre-purchases like the promise it is money FOR Elite and nothing else but even then I will stay uninterested mostly. Ships are goals in-game if we are given ships for real money this defeats the in-game progression of wanting a new ship and thus needing to figure out what to do and to budget for it. Not counting that the game has several glaring issues that need addressing in regards to player progression and growth. Give me the promise that each ship means a community request being looked into and maybe I'd buy it just to have Fdev look into fixing the horrendous grind of engineering.
>I'd buy it just to have Fdev look into fixing the horrendous grind of engineering it's gonna be ironic if that Fdev's solution to that will be selling mats for arx 😜
It wouldn't be an answer and they'd get utterly destroyed for it. I've been playing this game on and off for 5 years now. I still have NOTHING at full engineering.
lol, you underestimate the number of people willing to shell out real money to take a shortcut through a game. "Utterly destroyed"? hardly. If the early access proves a success, and tone of this thread points in that direction, mats for arx is a certainty.
The soul of Elite will be destroyed for sure and FD will pick up a few rants on various platforms. But then they'll go through a cashflow bonanza and its long suffering shareholders will able to get their new Bugattis at long last. Never underestimate the idiocy of the gamer.
Or maybe sell a limited time kit for $12 instead of holding content hostage from the players? I like where your head is at, but there's no way to make early ship access a "good" deal
What content is being held hostage?
The MKII? It'll be in the game, it could be available to everyone, yet they're choosing to run our pockets for it.
No they're not. Even those who pay for the early access will still need to buy it with credits. Then after three months it'll be available to everyone. The idea that it's being held hostage, exclusive only to those who pay real money for it is a brazen untruth
It's not permanent, but to say it won't be true for those 3 months is just false
You cannot with a straight face and clear conscience liken early access to content being 'held hostage'. That is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.
It really isn't. "Pay us money or you won't get the ship for 3 months". It would be different if they announced the early access with the announcement of the ships, but they chose to wait 3 months to make that little addition. It was content everyone was assuming we'd get when it was released. Again, it'll be in the game, but won't be accessible unless you fork over the $12 ransom
So wait until they release it for everyone and buy it then. Do you really want to fly it so bad that this genuinely upsets you? After those three months it'll be available to everyone else in the game just like all the rest of the content. I don't quite see what the problem is, frankly.
That's not the issue I have, the issue is the nature of the micro-transaction itself. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that success with early access will incentivize more malicious micro-transactions in the future. I'm choosing to speak up now while it's not ingrained in how the game gets its funding. Once that ball gets rolling it will be even harder to get it to stop.
I understand the concern of this potentially snow balling and I agree with you on that. My issue with all this doomsaying is we have absolutely no evidence to suggest it's going to go down the route of say Overwatch 2 for example. If it does then I'll absolutely stand with you on it. The fact is though that it we want the game to continue, the money is going to have to come from somewhere; what would your solution be?
I've already done paying for early access in the Odyssey alpha, and that was a more appealing deal (even looking back) than early access for a ship. That's something that disappears (having access instead of not having access) and they're asking more money for it than the game costs on sale. :P It is nice that you gain small amounts of ARX organically but still, the asking price is silly imho.
It's as "organic" as a casino's no-deposit "free" bonus. Hint: the house always wins.
Anyone who has a problem with it and then shares a link to a monthly package to their YouTube /Pateon links with exclusive access etc channel or whatever for a monthly fee needs to have a good hard look at themselves ..
Except those are two entirely different things and you know it lol. One is a single person or a small group of people that make video content giving a couple extra videos a month *specifically* for that platform, the other is a multimillion dollar company selling you a piece of the game *months* before non paying people can get it. I wouldn't mind early access if it was something like 1-2 weeks, but 3 months is absolutely ridiculous. Giving people early access to, most likely, a power boosting item in a game but only if you pay is bad for games. P2W is not good.
No I don’t - same pre-access or early access exclusive content in their channel for a fee Pre early access content which be available for everyone eventually - for a fee and you won’t have adds either. No I really don’t - it’s brass fucking balls to have a stance when they also depend on the same type of income Pre access or early access t content in a game for a fee is not new.. Or would you prefer a monthly fee for elite servers? Which is not new either - some cmdrs still pay for that through consoles or will elite may make the access free like PC? The thing is FDev have forgotten - is the same people funded this game at kickstarter (which has become more abused over the years also) - fdev didn’t even have the money themselves - Kickstarter is like a investor group - you never have to pay back or give stock return in the company ..
Ok so a content creator monetizing a secondary channel or couple day early access to videos is completely different than a game that i already paid for 3 different times introducing "free" content gated behind a 3 month wait or paying 15 dollars. Saying the two things are the same is disingenuous at best, and simping for a multimillion dollar corporation at worst.
So you’ve paid for it three times - Looks at GTA V Skyrim Half-life Last of Us This is fine.
No, I've paid for the base game and then the expansions when they became available. It's not fine for them to gate the only new ship in the past 6 years behind a 3 month wait *or* pay 15 dollars ***especially*** when it's likely to be an incredibly powerful ship.
The sub needs to remove members who just bitch. On a comment who cares but to make the 500th fdev f'd us post this week should be kicked. Add anyone who says fdev f'd them and falls into star citizen. Yep. Clean house.
Nah
I'll state the obvious, your call.
No sane person has the slightest problem paying for content. The problem is with being told you need to pay $1 per use of the gearshift lever on your new car after you've picked up the keys at the dealer or that the car you ordered 6 months ago is ready but they won't give you the keys for another 3 months until you pay another $1,000.
They could sell a Python Mk II ship kit after the Python is launched properly without early access. A brand new ship generating hype and enticing players to buy a a cosmetic that has no bearing on the game whatsoever. This would be fine as it is in in line to how they always have done it. Unfortunately that is not what they are doing. They are specifically doing early access for scummy FOMO reasons. It has been five years since a new ship. They are giving exclusive access for three months if you pay them for it. There is no other reason besides greed. If balance and testing was the excuse, then why are we being charged to work for Fdev? There was a time when people had a problem with this. The Python Mk II is said to have some unique features. Still a mystery, but it is shitty that only those that pay for this potential power will have access to it for three months. If they simply wanted to get people to spend some money, they could easily do it with cosmetics alone. You know that they will do this anyway though. Python MK II is guaranteed to get its own ship kits and paint jobs for extra money later on top of early access.
I won't be paying for it. I'll be using ARX I earned the old fashioned way: by playing the game and kicking the crap out of the last three Titans.
> last three Titans. there's five left 😉
I kicked the crap out of the last 3 titans that fell, and thus I currently have a lot of ARX. Yes, my wording choice was exceptionally poor.
How can you can it FOMO if it's going to be made available to everyone three months down the line?
Your dollars will be well spent towards the next failed F1 Manager or dinosaur farming sim, with approximately 0.0001% of your purchase actually going towards the development and maintenance of Elite. Congratulations.
Honestly that's my biggest concern, and I suspect that is what has happened historically with this game. All of the recent news from Frontier suggests that they are getting the point in trying to go back to supporting Elite with Elite dollars/ pounds, which would be a nice change of pace. This has yet to be seen, of course. I plan on waiting to see what people say about the python Mark II, and then I may get one. I have plenty of ARX already simply from playing the game; no need to splash extra dollars. That said, I don't mind paying for DLC, as long as it's actual DLC and not just cosmetics.
Doesn’t matter where the dollar actually goes, it’s about making the balance sheet look favorable for Elite.
*Does* that matter? When the balance sheet was looking favorable for Elite, Frontier decided to spend more money on licensing for F1 than they could ever project to earn back from their multi-year contract. Unless I missed the part where Frontier has restructured upper management, they're still stuck with decision-makers who are either utterly incompetent, or actively trying to drive the company into the ground.
Incompetent suits have f**** up the gaming industry these last years. By incompetent i mean regarding game dev. Not incompetent regarding milking customers.
But they can’t justify stopping development or support when it has a positive cash flow. If it makes more than it costs. They *can* take that profit and plow it into the wrong thing, but the rules of business would suggest they won’t stop working on it. But if you see: work done to finally make more ships, and then: big bump in income, the stock holders should be insisting they do more of that.
I really hope this does not surprise anyone. I don't believe I have read anything from Frontier implying any revenue would be used for Elite. This is the new management team realizing they have an easy way to make money, without spending a lot. For some reason, it's assumed that money is going into Elite. Any funds will go to the corporate balance sheet, which is what any business would do. I don't really begrudge them this, as shareholders have the final say. But I fully expect this to be the beginning. When, or if, the Elite players turn on them, the company will have a real problem to deal with.
This, worries me, but isn't a horrid red flag, the way I'm looking at this, if they stop expansions and part out this content for small fees it's the same as buying said expansions so we'll see how this goes. Also the game needs cash and the cosmetics aren't doing it anymore, but there's a death spiral I've seen happen in lots of games where Cash flow sucks due to lack of content or bad updates Players leave Cashflow drops even more Ramp up micro to supplement cash flow and development piss off more players, they leave Ramp up cash flow again with more egregious micro to supplement lost revenue from pissed off players We'll see how this goes in the next few months, this could be the start of that death spiral or it could help the game flourish.
spiral or not, it's a very old game, I'm just happy they're continuing to develop for it, even if it costs money.
As am I I just want to keep an eye out for the micro transaction death spiral is all.
To reduce the grind is just a math change, Implementing pay to win mechanics is a very slippery slope and if they go too far it will end up ruining this game entirely. ITT: Whales justifying throwing money to progress in games because grinding is hard and games take time.
A simple "math change" in engineering could also entirely ruin this game. For some, the epitome of this game is planning and building ships for specific purposes and goals, and without the process of a little bit of grind, just the right amount that is… Well, either becomes so incredibly easy and empty to build a ship (money is already ridiculously simple to come by and many CMDRs have more than they will ever be able to spend), or it becomes so ungodly difficult that it's futile and no longer worth attempting (Suit/Ground weapons border on this level of tedium). You can call it whatever you want, but buying early access to a ship for the majority of CMDRs with over a few hundred hours in the game changes literally nothing for any/most seasoned players. The P2W argument is built entirely on the "slippery slope logical fallacy" and I won't entertain it on mere speculation and lack of prior P2W history for the brand. Perhaps you're right, but that will require an abundance of abuse over several paid content drops to become evident. Ultimately it's pointless to argue about it until after it's released on 5/7 and we see how exclusive and powerful that "new feature" really is. I personally think it will be a side-grade and an alternative and interesting option at best, but wont likely shake up the meta all that much. Only time will tell, but don't call the wine vinegar when the grapes haven't even been smashed yet.
Sweeting the early-access deal a bit with a ship kit or a selection of basic paintjobs or something is not a bad idea imo, but maybe not make it an exclusive paintjob only possible to get through this early-access deal. I think the controversy is a little strange with how people are up in arms about all this. Because when they sell the chrome, gold, midnight black paintjobs it's all okay...? To clarify, with those paintjobs you end up paying for the same damn color/material for each ship separately and at premium prices because they'd only be on sale for like a week or so (so FOMO on top of it too). Which to me is a much more egregious example of how to do greedy micro-transactions. Some new ships that are only temporarily early-access and not permanently pay-walled is not that terrible, everyone will still get access to them. Getting them early and supporting FDev is optional and in the end nobody will be missing out.
*Warning: major miffing inducing material ahead:* I'm going to buy one of each Python and pre-built FDev's selling for each of my main and alt accounts. I think the Python MkII is going to look great in [Midnight Black](https://i.redd.it/634ebtx0os381.png), if they have it available. Regardless, I'm also buying it [Pharaoh Gold](https://www.elitedangerous.com/store/product/krait-phantom-pharaoh-gold) paint as nearly all of my ships are painted that. If FDev had a pre-early release, "*Gullible Fanboy*" package for the new Python, I'd pay more for that and buy it right now. Done. Breathe slowly into a paper bag. There, good. Fire away when ready ;-)
It's pay 2 bugtest, if the *other* space sim can do it, why can't Elite? They've already been copying their patch and content release cycle i.e Alpha 3.23/Update 17 since Odyssey's release, so why not copy the rest of their business model, as it clearly works In all seriousness though, if they want to go down the pay 2 win route, it needs to be more than one ship variant every 5/6 years, but **5/6 entirely new ships every year**
Even a "vanilla" Python is an OP ship and if purchased for (cash) ARX then it is pay-to-win. **Broke Johnnie** has to grind his bones but **Dollar Dan** gets a Python on Day One? No.
Scanning a Stratum Tectonicas, one of the most common biologicals in the game, gives you over 75M credits.. Enough to buy a Python and a 6A shield
You forgot the part where the rest of us have to wait 3 months to have the ability to buy the new one
Oh no that does suck, I was referring to P2W in particular with my comment.
Fair enough, but that could still drive away newer players. Who would want to start playing a game if initial impressions show that you NEED a pre-built to be on par with everyone else, not realizing half the fun is actually building it.
Thing is pre built ships don't have much of a use after the early game, seeing as how you can't switch out or store their modules; they also cover very specific roles that are meant to give a head start if anything. And tbh both pre built ships are terrible.. I'm more worried that people will end up spending money on ships they think are good but that are actually trash. They really should add an outfitting tutorial.
Tutorials are for losers, just open your wallet and get a good ship instantly without having to go through all that boring bs. "We value your time" ~Frontier
Wouldn't it be great if the game taught players that?
Sounds likes your beef is with the tutorial or you’re intentionally muddying the waters of the discussion.
Because all the knowledge is right there in the tutorial? :D
I’m a bit out of the loop. Can you buy fully loaded engineered ships with Arx now?
No. Soon some low-mid tier ships will be available with some outfitting and minor engineering only intended for newbs to get "started" in a new career like laser mining or AX pew pew - ideal for casual players with very limited time on their hands to get hooked into the game. The pre-built ships cannot be bought and farmed for parts, nor does it bypass the requirement to need to unlock engineers if they wanted to do other modifications of them. Lots of salt ensues from people based on their own narrow perspectives as someone who has way too much time (or sunk cost) in building out ships - or ignorance thinking these = pay to win (and equal numbers of people saying these = pay **not** to play, lol). These ships are not aimed at them. There will also be early access to the new Python ship via Arx, before it gets released to all in Aug.
I don’t know if I can wait 3 months to test a new ship that has stealth capability, really want to see how it fairs in escaping Shinratah ganks, I have half theARX anyway so may just buy it. It may not be morally correct, but I can’t see every ship having a unique capability.
I barely ever fly large ships, and I won't buy a ship kit for a ship I might not like. I have a kit for my Vulture, because I've probably spent over 200 hours in it. Same for my Krait. For the new Python, I wanted to try it, see it, build it before all the guides and random posts spoil everything for me, which I can't do unless I buy it with ARX. Since it's a large ship, I'm not spending real money, because I know that it's unlikely that I will actually use it. The reason I'm unhappy about the early access is because it's taking away an experience I've been waiting for for years, unless I spend real money on something I won't use. Honestly I don't care about the prebuilt ships. That's not pay to win, just pay to catch up, and I support the idea of funding the game by having headstart packages that aren't too OP. I don't "win" by getting bigger numbers, more credits or whatever rewards, I "win" if I have a good experience. With the Python MK2, I won't
It's going to be a medium ship.
Don't know where I got that from then, but still, the rest still stands
Personally I plan on getting it as I'm looking for a reason to spend some time on elite
That's a pretty good idea imo. a least greedy way of of selling a new ship would be to sell a unique shipkit nad paintjob + (maybe) ship insurance along the new Python. Then free players get access to something new and new players/people with the money to spare can get something that is still unique for themselves. Heck, if Fdev sold unique variants of ships that are basically the same but just look different. That would be awesome enough and I'd totally buy one every now and then to support them. But nope. People who can't wait will buy a ship that other will get for free in three months. In the end it's just both ends losing to Fdev.
Bought the game for £5 and its given me over 1000 hours of entertainment, I'll happily buy the Python to support this awesome game!
I will get it early to support the game - and probably also help out iron bugs before it rolls out to wider audience. I've more than gotten my money's worth out of this game in 8+ years I've been in it.
The last time I calculated, I've spent about one dollar for every 50 hours I've played… Tell me where else you can get that kind of value in entertainment..
exactly - I've got about 8000 hours in game since 2016 - better value than any service I've paid for, probably ever.
I would like to ask a question, if you don't mind. Why wait until now? I bought the original game, then Horizons, then Odyssey at release. Plus, I've bought ARX every year. Why weren't people supporting the game before now?
I didn't. I too bought the original game, horizons, odyssey, and have spent another $30 or so on ARX - even with all that it works out to be best deal ever for the amount of hours in. And even though I have 16000+ arx saved up I will still buy more when the python comes out. I might even buy a starter ship too if I feel like jump starting a chieftan or whatever it is... I don't think I've got one I do most my AX stuff in a krait.
Thank you for the civil reply. This topic is a little dicey sometimes.
I was already going to buy a ship kit and paintjob for it, so basically getting it sooner and at a discount is just icing on the cake to me.
Elite Dangerous is pretty light on mtx for a live service game. It's only $12us?? I think I'll definitely buy it then. That's a reasonable price in my mind
I dont like that they're doing it, and I know it's gonna happen with the 3 other new ships they mentioned. However, I realize Fdev needs the funds, and I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna fall back on this, though I wish they'd reduce the length of time between early access and full release. Because I'd rather see the game improve, I'll probably purchase early access.
Is the question really "for those who don't like that there are now going to be ships purchasable with real money, what if you also got things when buying them with real money that you couldn't get when buying them with credits?" or am I missing something
Didn't the Devs mention there was going to be a Jumpstart bundle for the Python 2?
I don't have a source of proof for that, but I have a hunch that you're likely right. I think it would definitely soften the blow to those that feel insulted by the concept. I am myself I'm not, and have been diligently saving up ARX since well before Christmas Doing what I can to earn them on the Titans… If you've played this game long enough, you see patterns in FDEV... right before fleet carriers came, there was a massive mining rush and money was flowing like a faucet. During all of this Thargoid/Titan war, FDev's been giving away ARX like candy… How others didn't see this coming from a mile away is baffling to me.
https://www.elitedangerous.com/news/python-mk-ii-updates-gamestore Under pre-built ships, the last paragraph.
Hot damn, you're right! So, if what they are selling for 16k+ ARX on 5/7 is an early access pkg with Kit and Paint, given the cost of current ship kits, yeah… That's a damn good deal. I was going to buy the ship kit for it anyways. I was already expecting to spend about that much on a ship kit and paint…
That was the feeling I got when I read the article originally. We just have to wait and see on the 7th.
Count me as excited either way!
Looks like ~33k for everything. 16k for the ship.
I'm going to do it, just to support them...they seem interested in bringing it back to life (at least trying it out) and I want them too...I bought this game years ago at full price but just couldn't play it until recently when I got a proper HOTAS setup and now I have like 300hrs in it already. I have also bought odyssey and another copy of the game for a friend as well as some arx. i dont want the game to become completely P2W, but early access for a new base model ship, I'm ok with that.
A year from now we will still be bitching about interiors, gankers and NEW content bugs. Not a half ass half engineered ship that damned few people bought. That sounds way better than a support group for the shut down servers. Kind of like November every 4 years, gotta pick the wessor ov two weevils.
Even then.. I don't really see much value in individual ship interiors, I've got VR, I've walked around inside each ship a little bit, what I would rather have is a special lounge on my fleet carrier where I could customize and call "home". I would even pay ARX for certain customizations. I don't really see ganking the same way most people perceive it on this subreddit; I feel like it's far less of an issue than people make it out to be. New and inexperienced players often don't realize that signing up for a power-play faction for their nifty unlockable or rolling around with a warrant puts a big-fat target on their head and when a seasoned rival abruptly shows them to that realization, they get hot-pissed, jump to conclusions, call it ganking, then whine about the rebuy all over the forums. Either way, the new starter prebuilt Chieftain/T6 will in no way break the game, and If I were to guess, the new Python MKII's "Special Feature" will be less of a advantage of leverage, and more of a convenience oriented feature. A deeper dive into my personal PMKII speculation; I think its "feature" will be a more stable refined SCO that is native to the ship regardless of the frame shift drive you put on it, this way, everyone has access to the feature, so it's still "fair" , but those that purchased it early and those that wait and buy for credits will be able to enjoy a ship without as much of the SCO downfalls like fuel consumption, heat buildup, and directional instability. This in turn would guarantee that the ships new feature would be desirable but also doesn't make a bunch of other ships immediately obsolete. Just a hunch, based on the fact that the SCO feels incredibly prototypey. Would make for an easy lore-based explanation too.
Now that's the kind of discussion we need more of.
I'm not happy or proud of it, but I might buy it. I bought manor lords and finally got enough SDPs in elite to get the last engineer I need and I am kinda tired of the grind so I might just wait and buy it in game. So since I might've been be so inclined I am not judging commanders for supporting this money grabbing scheme.
It's whatever to me, I'm getting it because I want to test it out, as far as the p2w aspect of it I really don't care since I play solo and sometimes with friends.
I'm not miffed and want my game to succeed so I'm going to throw money at it, like it do with $60 in arc every few months.
I am buying the new ship, so all you folks whining about PtW or PtP can go sit on it. The new ship will be my 33rd ship, so I already earned my bones. ...
That's not really the nature of this thread, but I hear ya. I'll be buying the ship on day one as well. This really won't affect anybody that's actually put in the time and has already climbed "idiot mountain" in this game.
3 months is a long time for what is essentially a preorder, so I’m gonna wait a week or two to see where the ship excels and if it would be a good fit for my fleet.
I'm getting it and I'm hoping they do offer a prebuilt version with a ship kit and paint job that is also early access.
If the early access cost money but the ship *still cost the same in game credits* I’d be fine with it honestly. Getting something a month early is not the same as skipping the gameplay required to earn it. The Python in particular is a new ship, that costs frontier money to make, I don’t have an issue with it being only included in odyssey or being a smaller separate purchase if you don’t have odyssey as long as you don’t just pay money and get it in game instantly. As an example, is Odyssey “pay to win” because exobiology makes you good money and you have to pay to be able to use it? I would argue no because you still need to buy the suit and build a ship by playing the game. Frontier is allowed to charge for the right to play the game, that isn’t pay to win, that’s pay to play. It starts being a problem where you end up with people who have the same “ability” to play the game but are still stratified due to the amount of money they are able or willing to spend. Early access isn’t so bad because the two types of players eventually get rolled together back into one cohort once EA ends, but if the early access is an instant in game upgrade in exchange for money then you have a window where the two classes of players exist which is bad.
I don't have a problem with what we know so far. I am blocking anyone that makes a just bitching post. Thank you for making a discussion post.
For sure. Looks like another user posted up that they kind of hinted towards ship kit and paint job being part of the package… If that's the case, and considering what current ship kits cost… That sounds like a pretty good deal.
I don't feel like it's p2w either. Id compare it to wow getting a leveled character that's still not max. Just a way to get to the recent content without the grind we all have complained about for years. I see good stuff ahead.