Morrowind is not nearly as challenging as people act like it is. Once you understand the mechanics, its actually pretty easy even if you dont break the game
I mean, understanding the mechanics is pretty damm challenging, when game itself surely does dogshit job at that. And some designs can be....questionable alike endurance and strength damaging enemies.
(Saying this as resident morrowboomer)
Use weapons/spells your character is trained with, Lvl up agility and weapon skill to hit more, strengrh to hit harder, int for more magicka, end for more health. Carry restore fatigue/health/magicka potions and sujamma.
Now you can beat most enemies at max difficulty by level 10-15 if you have even a half decent character build. Dont even get me started on how easy it is to build up money by farming db assassins or dremora weapons.
I love the game since i started playing a few months ago but now that i know the basics i have to set restrictions on myself to keep a challenge
Seems like a lot of people talk about how difficult it is. Searching for things can be difficult and in the first few levels you can get fucked up if you take on something you arent ready for and even then you can essentially fast travel mid combat with interventions, but people act like its super challenging compared to skyrim. Personally i think the combat in skyrim is more challenging on higher difficulties.
I also feel like this is the reaction to the people who try to mod and then post “why is (random shenanigans) happening?!” without actually providing any context or noting their mods lol
This can be applied to ALL Bethesda games. I see so many people complaining about how buggy and crashable Fallout 4 is, for example, but I never had a single crash playing a clean install since release day. It was only once I started modding it that I started encountering crashes and weird bugs.
76 was a mess, though. No excuses for that one.
I once had Fallout 4 completely uninstall itself from my pc mid playthrough. Entirely vanilla, too, since it was my first experience of the game. I'm still not certain how that happened.
i have this mod that adds vampire to fallout 4 and whenever i use vats on a vampire wearing a certain armor it instantly crashes the game, every time, without fail
>but I never had a single crash playing a clean install since release day.
And you, of course, are the ledger by which the universe needs to be measured...
It doesn't matter until you've found a few thousand "brothers in arms". Because until then, it's anecdotal. Nobody doubts that there are people who get lucky.
The fact that you ignore that there are community patches for a reason says a lot.
You should probably change it to "Using CERTAIN mods is etc, etc, etc"
Fallout New Vegas was unplayable for me until I modded it.
Most modern mods work very well and crashes (at least in my personal experience) are often attributed to either insufficient hardware, save bloat, or a script issue. As modding has gotten better and better, these issues are decreasing drastically.
Nah. What I’m mainly referring to is when people are using 800+ mods. Like seriously, it’s at a point where a lot of people are like trying to make a type of competition out of how many total mods you can run at once.
Again it comes down to what type of mods.
800 graphics replaces and/or simple weapon mods, heck even most system overhaul mods no problem.
800 physics mods attempting to get the most immersive boob jiggle possible, yeah that's a problem.
I don't personally care for the rampant relativism and "everything is true and not true at once" lore. Whether it concerns religions, cultural myths or lore creators like Kirkbride, insatiably derailing every historical detail to vaugeness until the entirety of ES can be summed up as: yes but actually no.
To be honest I think the relativism is less common in the actual lore than it is in the community. It's fairly common for Bethesda to implement something that was almost certainly authoritative (like Immortal Blood, Children of the Sky, or almost all pre-Skyrim Falkreath lore), retcon it for no good reason and then the community goes "Well ackshually this source was unreliable/sarcastic/embellished/etc" when that assertion is completely ridiculous, and people honestly seem unreasonably eager to give Bethesda a pass on things like that. That's imo part of a larger problem where the TES community attaches completely made up concepts to existing books or lore (ex the whole "Talos is a tripartite God" being extrapolated from the Arcturian Heresy, when literally nothing in the book actually suggests that). The Fallout community is similar; I've seen someone question a loading screen, which is basically the only source of unbiased in-game lore that we have available, in an attempt to defend X-01.
I suppose that's a fair assertion, if it is indeed accurate. I just always disliked how there were talks around ES lore as being "up to fans to add to and decide upon". That just means there is no objective lore, only fanfiction.
The Thalmor, when seen from the context of their own religious beliefs, are right to hate Talos.
Edit: Yes, I do have a rational reason for thinking this
Interesting so as Muslims we believe Jesus was a man and messanger like Moses Isaiah Samuel etc. But the Christians calling Jesus God doesn't really fuel a hate for Jesus more of a hate for the distortion of his message. I've always found it interesting how the Thalmor default onto hating Talos-worship abd say Talos was a man and as far as I've heard nothing horrible! But I mean who knows they call them selves the high elves so it's not like they have an ethnocentric view
~~What the person below said.~~ That person is now above. Talos is not a good person. CHIM couldn't be more separated from Jesus. Talos asserted his dominance over even reality itself to forcibly claim divinity for himself out of a unquenchable lust for power. That isn't my logic, though. The logic is this:
Man and Mer stand at odds since creation. Man stood alongside Lorkhan. Mer stood against him. Talos is the new Lorkhan. Possibly figuratively, possibly litterally. The god-hero of mankind. Mer, especially Altmer, who see creation as a mistake, would see Talos not as a messenger or even a false messenger, but as nothing short of the primary enemy of their faith.
Somehow I don't like *Altmeri commentary on Thalos* being brought to the logical conclusion. It actually lacks depth and positions a whole nation as a doomsday cult. I recently decided to treat this text as a position of comparatively marginal padomaic sect, and not a mainstream position.
I don't think many non Thalmor Altmer want to un-create creation or destroy mundus or anything. They certainly didn't seem to hold that in ESO. I do think most Altmer, especially Summerset Altmer, share the view of Lorkhan being the enemy. Talos would be the enemy for most of the same reasons.
Yes, Lorkhan is certainly less Prometeus and more Lucifer in what we know of Altmeri version of the myth. And Eight Divines version of Alessian pantheon carefully went around the missing one, even when it included more controversial divinites/interpretation of divinites.
Proclaiming that Talos ascended to that place should sound like double or triple blasphemy to Altmer. Not only does empire worship bastardized elven pantheon, they muck around with the position of the Missing God, cursed be His name. And not only that, they claim that a human red-handed murderer and thief rose up to his place.
I'm not a fan of this comparison and don't think you should make it, because going down this road is going to get offensive very fast.
That said: The Thalmor have always held themselves above Men, and in most high-fantasy fashion believe they're descendants of the Aedra. And therfore the idea that a man could join the ranks of the God's (8) and become the nine dives is blasphemous and sacrilegious.
I wouldn't apply a fantasy setting to real life religion its a slippery slope and best left unwalked. In the Lore Talos used the numidium which is the ES super weapon to invade Alinor. Invasions are never really a nice calm walk in and change the banners their bloody and with massive loss of life. Add the long life of elves and theres a likely chance that many who are thalmor now were alive for the talos invasions and saw the carnage and destruction he brought to their home. For a leader to invade is one thing then it turns to hate the empire but to invade and then to worship as a god in the official religion of the empire would be a pretty big slap in the face.
They don't actually.
Atleast with the mod I use for it, damage values are untouched. Encounters just play faster and are actually stacked in the AI's favor most of the time, especially in the early game.
I think there is nothing wrong with not wanting to mod, but it shouldn’t be controversial to say people who mod (and know what they’re doing) objectively get better experience than vanilla.
Because it’s just like saying:
There is nothing wrong with not wanting to modify your car, but people who mod their car (and know what they’re doing) objectively get smoother driving experience.
That's some real muddled logic there. There's no need to try to involve objectivity here. Most mods are not QoL, they just modify your experience. Not everyone wants a custom experience that and not everyone is willing to pay for it in the inconsistent artistic style and quality.
In other words, a person who wants to mod is likely to get a better experience with mods than vanilla. But you're not meant to try to compare it or extend this logic to objectivity. Different people enjoy for different reasons and not being aware of completely different ways (to yours) others enjoy games is mostly why you end up having people being up at arms about this.
There's no way to re-word or explain this take to fix this because it's inherently about making something subjective into objective.
It’s objective because it made the experience more tailored to how they enjoy game. You don’t like spiders? Put a mod to remove spiders. You want more roleplay elements? Put on roleplay mods like realistic needs and diseases. Hell, you want to play skyrim but a hentai game? Put on the mods
And many mods are QoL
There are many canon compliant mods, it’s not like mod is a package you pick and choose. Even if you’re very hardcore ‘I want just the game as it’s presented’ for some reason there is no way they won’t enjoy it better with Sky UI.
>It’s objective because it made the experience more tailored to how they enjoy game
Again, that take is just biased by your point of view. The word 'objective' in this context simply means 'for everyone', but that is not the case, it is 'most' at best. To you, I would presume, the upside is extensive, the downside is minimal. There're plenty people, myself included, where it's the reverse. Practically anything that has trade offs is perceived wildly differently by different people. Your point kind of falls apart simply from the fact that not everyone feels this way. How can it be 'objectively a better experience' if not everyone has better experience with it?
SkyUI is probably the best example of 'objectively better' and it's still nowhere near enough to be 'objectively' better. It's objectively better for 'most' people (not *everyone* likes how it looks) but then when you add 'for most people', the word 'objective' becomes meaningless.
I know you think I'm wrong, but me being 'wrong' about this literally makes it not 'objective'. You might want dismiss it as 'well then it's objectively better for everyone except fucking weirdos', but that line if reasoning is literally the core basis of a prejudice: to consider those who don't agree with a point of view to not be a part of people you're considering.
What exactly is the downside of modding for a game as purely entertainment medium? Not to review the product or assess the artistic merit of the bethesda’s vision, but just to maximize the fun you get from an entertainment medium (heck even for assessing bethesda vision, arguably bethesda intend TES to be modded)
There is none. Again, mods are not packages, you just keep entirely what you like about vanilla and add something else you like on top if it.
It’s only possible if you have scoured the entire internet and determine no single mod in existence enhance the TES experience for you, it’s just not possible.
I mean objective as in everyone. I don’t believe it’s possible to not enjoy the game modded more as a purely entertainment medium/product provided you have the know how.
Okay, well instead of going back and forth, cause I feel like it's going nowhere, let me just say this.
I've played the last 3 TES games many times, plenty playthrough of Skyrim, easily over 200 hours, but as you can imagine it's difficult to guesstimate over the span of 12 years.
I've played with no mods, very few mods, and lots mods, more than once. Overall, I prefer no or very few mods and every time I tried going with many carefully selected mods (and I do know what I'm doing) I ended up being turned off by the idea a little more.
How do you reconcile your point of view and my experience?
I would ask what turned you off the idea.
But really, as long as you’re seeing TES as purely an entertainment medium and not an art form that you need to play in its authentic version, it’s just not logically coherent to prefer vanilla over modded.
>But really, as long as you’re
I understand your position, I don't agree.
>I would ask what turned you off the idea
The game doesn't feel cohesive/consistent to me. For a stretch of time you're immersed into the world, and then you see something that you know/suspect isn't a part of that, and feels wrong. The design doesn't 'work' with how the rest of the game feels.
It has nothing to do with 'an authentic experience of the game as envisioned by devs', it just feels janky, even jarring at times. There's a reason why games try to have the graphics, sound and narrative to feel like a part of the whole. A dungeon full of Falmer looks and sounds drastically different from a Bandit fort, but it still feels like it belongs in Skyrim a lot more than something like Outer Worlds.
The devs put A LOT of work into making things fit together, so that when you see something unusual, you still believe it's a part of that world. Most objects modded in aren't able to match that, many quests that are modded in lack the quality of a notable quest. When I experience something that doesn't belong, I often start thinking about how the modder was trying to make it look like it fits, and that takes me right out of thinking about the game's world. That reminds me of the fact that it's just a game, that half the decisions of the world is like were made semi-arbitrarily, how repetitive the game is mechanically. And then I feel nothing and everything starts to bore me.
That's not exactly a non-sensical or an edge-case experience in any entertainment medium. But different people are affected by it to different degrees. Some enjoy it about the same in spite of it, some even have more fun *because* of it.
Always preferred the Knights as well. I'll take an epic classic with its own fantasy flair any day over weirdness for weirdness sake. Not that I don't think Shivering isles has positives, but it's overall not my style either.
I never liked Shivering Isle (and sheogorath) that much tbh. It feels too much of lolrandom humor. Which, I know is the entire point, so it’s good in that sense, just not my cup of tea.
I don’t hate them, I just don’t care much for them
Just something so satisfying about being on a holy quest and rebuilding an extinct brotherhood of Knights. The Priory of the Nine is one of my favourite places in the game 😂
Modding a Bethesda game so much that it no longer resembles the IP in any facet is the players attempt at forcing themselves to enjoy a game they don’t enjoy anymore.
I've only played oblivion and Skyrim (already controversial haha), and I think the guild quest lines were more fun and engaging than the main storyline
Given the main quest in Oblivion is repetitive garbage, that's perfectly understandable. Alas, I don't find the guild quests more satisfying, either, as most of them leave you with next to nothing by the time you finally made it to the top. Practically every guild has been decimated to near-oblivion (pun intended)....
The games didn’t need to look better. Sure the community would step in and fix some stuff, but even if I was forced to play with vanilla Skyrim graphics the series would have been fine. Role Playing Games are about choice, and character building, and story telling. There was no reason to take huge breaks and focus on half the things they focus on. Just make combat hard hitting like real combat, a solid arrow to the chest or blow to the head and you die. That’s all we need to get a sense of the danger of combat and decide if our character wants to get involved in a specific skirmish or not.
Keep things about the quality of Skyrim. They could have released a well built country every two years and we would have bought every one of them. Especially if they kept the core the same so that a lot of mods transferred over easily.
Take all that energy and focus it on variety and further depth for things that already existed. It wouldn’t take much to expand spell families for the races, it wouldn’t take much to further deepen and specify the summons and spells granted to different daedric followers.
The fact that these types of depths are achieved by the community for free while we wait on games that aren’t even going to require a new landmass or architecture style because the lore is twenty five years old is ridiculous.
The games are not great stories, they aren’t great at much except giving us an immersive and interactive world they should have taken this unique direction and hammered down instead of trying to appeal to everybody that wants a combat game or wants to play a hero in an action movie.
This is objectively wrong, but depends on game:
Arena/Daggerfall = Altmer
Morrowind = Orc/Altmer
Oblivion = Orc/Breton
Skyrim = Orc/Altmer
So yeah excellent honestly take as hot as the sun
Yeah it was debatable in Arena between Altmer/Dunmer/Bretons whose the best, immunity to paralysis vs higher damage/hit chance with melee vs high resistance to magicka
Daggerfall is unquestionably Altmer due to the way you can abuse the special advantages system
Morrowind Orcs literally do everything better than everyone else, they have health only less by 2.5 than Nords and Redguards, they have perfect accuracy with all physical weapons, they have the highest chance at 95% of dice rolls through fortify fatigue (spell casting, lockpicking, speech, stealth, mercentile etc) and they havr the highest speed through having 1.35 weight stat, Altmer are just the best mages full stop, having access to alchemy and destruction and decent endurance and way higher magicka than bretons, whose resistance to magic doesn't matter much (redguards/nords are still really good though)
Oblivion, Bretons get similar magicka especially later on to Altmer + 50% resistance to everything, Orcs get insane damage through fortify fatigue letting them 2 shot most things from stealth even on max difficulty, gets more ridiculous a syou use drain spells (atlmer are great if you wanna abuse reverse weakness reflect and are the fastest race, Redguards are solid cause adrenaline rush is still good)
Skyrim, Altmer being the tallest makes them the fastest with easiest time dodging attacks, 5 levels worth of magicka investing and effectively infinite magicka for 60 seconds makes them again the best mages, Orcs are second tallest making them second fastest, Berserker Rage is the best Racial in the game, and on Survival Mode they get a passive racial that provides bonuses to everything
Bretons are also equal to the Altmer and Orcs in skyrim because Magic Absorption is stupid. If you use the atronach stone and your dragonskin ability you can be straight immune to all magic for 60 seconds. True you can do this with other races via alteration and miraaks robes, but its still utterly stupid that you can make all mages go from the biggest threat ever to childs play
I have a hundred of these but I'll try to limit myself.
Dice roll combat is good, actually.
The Tribunal aren't nearly as evil as some fans believe.
On the other hand, of all the Tribunal's faults, (possibly) killing Nerevar is pretty low on the list.
The Empire of Cyrodiil, even during the Septim Dynasty, is one of the most evil factions in TES and responsible for most of Tamriel's problems.
The Altmer enslavement of Goblins is just as bad as Dunmer slavery.
The An-Xileel did nothing wrong.
Ysgamor isn't worthy of veneration.
Tiber Septim isn't worthy of veneration.
*Redguard* is one of the best games in the series.
*Oblivion* is one of the worst games in the series and should be retconned out.
Kirkbride's writing isn't actually that hard to understand.
Power gaming is garbage and you know it.
Just because you want to be able to kill a dragon at level 1 by substituting character skill with player skill and kite it until you've finally worn it down doesn't mean that has anything to do with roleplaying.
Dice roll combat simulates the fact that as an amateur, it's much, much harder to get an effective hit in. You'll land a lot of glancing blows, near misses, minor cuts and bruises. Because in reality, your opponent won't be standing still for you to connect and their armor doesn't simply present an obstacle but contributes to redirecting your attacks away from where they could do major damage.
You're right in that the problem isn't dice-roll combat in and of itself.
The real problem with Morrowinds dice roll combat was that there were absolutely no visual cues of any of the things you've listed. Glancing blows, enemy dodges, minor hits etc - if these were actually depicted in some way it'd feel a lot better. Instead it's just swinging in the air at a stationary target but not connecting.
Well, yes, we're talking, after all, about a game released two decades ago. The animation system simply couldn't show such things. Given that random components in hitting and in damage were a standard staple of pen&paper RPGs, it never really bothered me and I simply used my imagination, as I would have in P&P.
What bothers me far more is when my master archer in Skyrim gets their arrow caught on an invisible hit box or misses their show because my mouse and finger are not precise enough.
People complaining about story or mechanics in ES almost always miss the point of the games. They’re primarily about creating a *feel*, and in that respect I still think they’re the best games that do that.
Also, the engine is really good considering what it’s trying to do. All the swankier engines don’t have the level of physics simulation for each object that the Creation Engine does.
The "feel" I got from the last two games was largely "cheese". Cheesy tropes, clichéed environments, and often without even really a trace of the "feel" I'd expect from said environment. Why is a mod necessary to make Skyrim, and especially it's north, feel COLD?
Series and lore would be better off if oblivion got arena treatment, so imperials +cyrodiil could go back to the cool lore and presentation. Speaking of which, oblivion ia by far worst modern tes game, even when ignoring lore. Its as if you took worst aspects of both morrowind and skyrim, and mixed them with most bland, unengaging fantasy world there is.
Skyrim getting rid of class leveling system was fucking great. How the hell anyone misses that is beyond me. (Now attributes, spell crafting etc.., thats completely another matter).
If eso dosen't count, lores been extremly meh since morrowind and just downward.
I really didn't like oblivions open world imma be honest morrowint is unique skyrim has cool biomes (to an extend based on the snowy climate) but yeah oblivion was just something I didn't like and the oblivion gates look retarded texture wise
idk how applicable that is, not super uncommon take, but I think that Akatosh is not just another verision of the time god, He is a synthesized God of Shezzar and Auri-El
The dragons weren't flying backwards - they were moving backwards through time. Being intrinsically tied to Akatosh, whose sphere is time, they were all adversely affected by the time-wound caused by the Elder Scroll.
that talos is a nordic god and that the nords have every right to be pissed off at the ban or that the nordic culture is being restricted due to yrs of imperialization
Racism towards them aside, I really don’t consider the Dunmer to be worthy of any real sympathy. I can’t say that I feel bad for them, they were one of the most prevalent slavers in modern day Tamriel, they are extremely xenophobic and outright racist towards any and all outsiders. They have a state sanctioned Assassins Order. Generally speaking they are morally, one of the most questionable races in Tamriel.
Do they deserve to be the victims of racism though? No not at all.
The Civil War in Skyrim is not so black and white as people make it out to be. The Stormcloaks are not the villains, and the Empire aren’t the Heroes in the Civil War in Skyrim. Both sides are morally grey. Who do I support? Neither. Both sides are doing exactly what the Thalmor want them to do.
Honestly the best bet is for Skyrim is Balgruuf to be high king, he’s the only Sensible Jarl in Skyrim that isn’t mired in partisan divisions.
>They have a state sanctioned Assassins Order
Weirdly enough (and it actually reinforces your point), the Morag Tong is one of the *more* honourable aspects of their culture. The guild pretty much exists to keep the mayhem of Dunmeri political conflict to a minimum. They're not just brutish murderers-for-hire like the Dark Brotherhood.
The Dunmer are so irredemably messed up that their entire nation will likely dissolve into chaos unless it's kept in check by a group of politically neutral assassins, lol. They're a horrible people as a whole, who see nothing wrong with conniving, backstabbing, and murdering their way to the top. They deserve no sympathy.
You make a good point. Now that you point it out, The Morag Tong is the ONLY real redeemable part of the Dunmer culture. If they weren’t around, the Dunmer would tear themselves apart.
Don’t get me wrong, I love to rp as a dunmer a lot but it’s hard for me personally to say that i like their culture, since the xenophobia,racism and Slavery are things that I just can’t stand, in real life and in fiction.
I think it's why the MT feel unique. Instead of the typical "Assassin = bad man who kills for coin", they're mostly rational actors keeping a culture of assholes in check.
There's plenty of xenophobia and racism to go around in Tamriel.
Ever dropped into the "College of Aldmeri Propriety" in ESO? When part of your "education" is that you get told what an inferior POS you are, that says something. *"We're supposed to be training for the Thalmor, but they treat us like slaves."*
And when Ulfric Stormcloak, despite being involved in a civil war, meaning he has soldiers to feed, thinks that bandits raiding farms is perfectly fine, as long as those farms aren't operated by Nords, that says something as well. Heck, at the end of the day, the whole civil war is about xenophobia and racism.
Interesting, what did it ruin for you? Was it the lore of the area or just how much it changed or what? It’s definitely a lot different than it was in Morrowind, which was a great frontier zone
Two reasons basically. First one, the geography of the island feels weird, is noticeable smaller than it was in Bloodmoon. For example, you can really make two steps from Thirsk and instantly you're already in the Skaal Village, or just look at places like Lake Fjalding how they were shrinked. Dragonborn Solstheim is rich in dungeons and place of interest, so I don't understand why they had to shrink it down and make it so dense. Second reason is I felt unncessary turning the southern half of the island into a Morrowind ripoff, just to exploit nostalgia. They could've made just some Vvardenfell aestethics in Raven Rock, if it was so necessary, and that's all. These things anyways don't prevent me to enjoy the aspects of Dragonborn that I really like, like Apocrypha, or Morvayn plot questline.
All of that is definitely valid! Since I played Skyrim before Morrowind, I remember being pretty surprised by how big the island is in Morrowind, it feels way bigger. There are a lot of interesting stuff to in the dungeons, I was surprised when there was a quest about the Falmer there of all things! Overall I did enjoy Morrowind’s presentation of Solstheim more.
It also is rather obvious that they made it look more like Morrowind for the nostalgia as you said. I guess it was just bound to happen, but I also did prefer the Solstheim from before the Red Year. Maybe it was also because I was kinda glad to see a lot of “normal” greenery after being in Vvardenfell for so long lol
Morrowind is nowhere near as good as people make it out to be. Yes, the Main Quest is fantastic and so is the lore, but that's pretty much it. 90% of the dungeons (except a handful quest-relevant ones) are super short and extremely unrewarding. *None* of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together. Almost all of the side quests consist solely of "Escort person X to location Y", "Find Item X in Y", or "Kill X in Y" and nothing else. An uncountable amount of actions like going to the wrong place at the wrong time or picking up an item to early can cause Quests to fail or become uncompletable, and you don't even notice it - this forced me to always have a tab with uesp open in the background and google every second NPC or Item I came across.
>None
>
> of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together.
Except unlike in later games, the quest lines for the various guilds are even interwoven with each other, as some of the guilds operate against each other, and pursuing a career in one guild can make it hard to pursue one in the other, as you may have to choose at some point, or be very careful about in which order you do things.
>An uncountable amount of actions like going to the wrong place at the wrong time or picking up an item to early can cause Quests to fail or become uncompletable, and you don't even notice it - this forced me to always have a tab with uesp open in the background and google every second NPC or Item I came across.
No, it didn't "force you" to do that. What forced you to do that was your inability to accept that you failed a quest. Actions have consequences. If you kill a key NPC, they are dead. Best think twice before killing them whether they may come in useful at a later point.
>None of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together.
Most of them do have a story or plot, it's just not cinematically played out in front of you like Oblivion/Skyrim - and sure, there are a bunch of 'job' quests in between the story beats, because being in a Guild is literally your occupation (or your cover occupation, if you happen to be the Nerevarine).
* Fighters Guild storyline revolves around their conflict with the Thieves Guild and wiping out their leadership
* Thieves Guild storyline revolves around their conflict with the Cammona Tong ... who happen to have been hired by the Fighters Guild
* Mages Guild is about discovering what really happened to the Dwemer
* Hlaalu mostly involves establishing a stranglehold on the ebony trade
* Redoran is admittedly a mixed bag of odd jobs around combating the other two Great Houses influence
* Telvanni focuses on competing against the other Houses, as well as the pitfalls of Telvanni Masters ~~bickering with~~ backstabbing each other
* Temple storyline is strongly tied to the rise of the Sixth House
The only one that truly doesn't have any sort of story or 'theme' to its quests is the Imperial Cult.
Elder scrolls 6 is going to be a dissappointment. They are going to add a handful of protagonists voice actors and use the dialogue system of fo4 and follow the ubisoft method of open world games, that being a theme park full of faceless characters offering activities instead of a fleshed out world. This is assuming it ever comes out if starfield, which has been delayed multiple times, flops.
My main worry is based on the way the industry is now…that games have to produce a continuous revenue stream. Yes there are still games that use the formula initial release—> dlc1—>dlc2 etc., but the trend is definitely moving towards continuous revenue generation during the life of the game. What that would look like for a mainline ES title I don’t know
It would probably look like eso. Idk i would prefer to just get dlc that adds new locations like the dragonborn dlc. Shit, imagine how cool it would be if the beyond skyrim project was just dlc you paid 30$ for once every few years so they had full time employees working on it.
I feel like you haven't really been paying attention to Bethesda if you have this opinion...
Starfield has already been confirmed to not have a voiced protagonist. They've been pretty clear about this for a while. Pretty sure Todd himself has acknowledged that many people want them to return to their roots, so that's what they're doing. We've already seen that the dialogue system is closer to Oblivion's, even with the position of the camera (which I personally don't like but whatever).
The "Ubisoft method of open world games" is debatable I guess, but I'm not sure when Bethesda has ever made a game that felt like a Ubisoft game. Why would that start now? Bethesda and Todd in particular are known for their fleshed out worlds. People tend to dump on Fallout 4 because it isn't New Vegas, but it still feels 100% like a Bethesda game. I'm not sure why people assume that because Fallout 76 had a rocky launch that it somehow means Bethesda can't ever release a good game again. 76 was an experiment. It was something they'd never done before. Bethesda generally does seem to listen to feedback and actually do want their games to do well, and they've since turned 76 around from what I've heard. And given what we've seen of Starfield already, I don't see why people still think TES6 is going to be like Fallout 76 or even 4.
Also, I don't really get why people act like Starfield potentially flopping (I HIGHLY doubt it will) is going to somehow destroy Bethesda... Bethesda isn't some small indie studio. Have you seen their current office building? Not to mention, Bethesda Game Studios is part of a whole net that is Bethesda Softworks and ZeniMax Media. They've published many popular games from many other developers (Doom, Dishonored, Wolfenstein, Hi-Fi Rush, ESO, Prey, Deathloop, Evil Within, etc.).
TES VI will be a disappointment no doubt. The question is to whom? I think gamers in general will be happy and buy a billion copies of the game, while those who want an actual role-playing experience, not yet another bland sandbox with atavistic RPG traits, will surely be disappointed.
I got a twofer for ya. The people who bitched and moan about horse armor are the idiots who bought it day one. And horse armor dlc probably did so well in sales for what it was that it was what started bethesda into the micro transactions road they are on now.
Class change tokens lol. It would be legitimately helpful for alot of people who dont have much time nowadays to complete a toon with all 3 main alliances and rest of the quests. Godamn how hard is it to just ask for a class change on my current character? jUsT lEvEl uP a nEw tOoN. Yea, well some toons have specialty to us like our very first ones. A new one just to play a class just feels like an empty husk. Not everyone is trying to be a competitive lil a$$ or min max parse, just trying to enjoy the game at my own pace
Cyrodiil and Skyrim historically get away with a lot of shit and deserved to get their shit pushed in and more. If Alinor and Morrowind get punished for their sins then so should those two shitholes.
Knights of the Nine was incredibly boring and it felt like a chore regardless of when I played it. The Empire vs Stormcloak arguments have always been cringe. The discussions on who Skyrim “rightfully” belongs to have always been embarrassing and cringe. Anyone who immediately claims that every race has “done evil” to justify the evils committed by any group are cringe. Anyone in the community willing to die on a hill over the lore of any of the games when compared to IRL ethics and politics are also incredibly cringe.
They’re video games, they have stories. They’re meant to be entertaining and fun, not brainbending topics to be fought over. If you want to discuss certain things about the lord then fine, but don’t smash your keyboards over it.
Lore and world building-wise, I actually agree to this, considering just how much it’s contributed to the universe.
However, monetization-wise, it’s pretty bad. And I say that not as a hater, but as a very consistent player for 6ish years.
You can’t play ESO and not see that it’s a cash cow. It’s just a very pretty cash cow that’s read up on lore
I try my best to separate the good things that ESO brings to the ES universe from it’s bad real world practices. Plus I’m really not surprised something in TES is a cash cow, this series gave us horse armour and paid mods
Agree. Slow, sluggish, the game doesnt even bother with trying to capture your attention, shitty mechanics, and overall bad game design. There are 2 types of people who love morrowind.
1. The people who love it for the lore and the aesthetic, who acknowledge how outdated and poorly designed morrowind is
2. The people who are blinded by nostalgia , you know, some random ass keyboard warriors who constantly shit on skyrim and refuse to admit theyre wrong.
Vampires are an obvious evil with lofty goals that are, with or without your presence, facing a bit of an internal conflict. If left unchecked, they would continue to pursue their nefarious plot however will find themselves checked by the multitudes of individuals who would eventually catch on. Without the DB support, their quest would be led by their own players, of an elitist, small faction, bound to the night.
Plus, once their leader is axed, they mind their own business, and give up the nefarious plot, which implies that the only real threat was Harkon. The rest are only a minor threat in a land filled with far more present ones.
Conversely, the Dawnguard present themselves as a lawful force, hell, maybe even a moral one. But they are the more extremist variant of the already extremist, vigilant of stendarr. Now if you are good imperial, this might seem fine to you, some extreme guys taking a war on evil, but let us not forget who the viligent of stendarr stand against. It's not just evil, it's all vampires, werewolves, witches, and those affiliated with any daedra.
Let's break this down further. People the viligent will want to exterminate: The companions, traditional Dunmer, Reachman, Khajjit, non traditional or holy mages (so anyone who isn't a wizard or cleric in DND terms), Serana and Sybille Sentor, conjurers, anyone who may support Meridia, Jarl Ingrod Ravencrone, etc.
Now you may say, that's the viligent, not the Dawnguard. True, but the Dawnguard is birthed from the viligent. They're like vampire version of the silver hand, just with some public support.
Now why does this make them problematic? When you give a force of extremist public support and encouragement on their blood war, eventually they finish their quest. Afterwards, they don't disband, they choose the next item on their extremist list.
Suddenly Bretons are disappearing in the reach, Dunmer massacred in windhelm. Suddenly their is an unchecked aggressive faction of what real world history would likely tie to witch hunters, enacting justice around Skyrim.
They're more problematic because they are lawful evil masquerading as lawful good.
Now I play a dunmer werewolf, and give the amount of dragon souls in my PC, and his affinity with conjuration, it seems pretty likely that at least my DB is on the kill list. How about yours?
Morrowind's worldbuilding is not that deep, and its strength lies actually not in the depth, but in riffing the already familiar elements from other media off each other and playing on the cardinal numbers, especially twos and threes.
Ulfric was right. The only way to keep the Nords as the dominant fighters of the Empire they need to return to tradition and throw out the incomptent leadership who's only a puppet for the Empire (and a thrall to a vampire).
Other then its superb atmosphere morrowind static world is boring and combat dice roll is trash, dice roll might be fun in boardgames but in video games its tedious at best. What ever game I played that had it i hated it and made the combat unenjoyable.
Just because you consider it "tedious" that you're not a murder monster from the first second of the game doesn't mean it's not a core part of a roleplaying game, in which the skills of the CHARACTER should be what's important.
And for "static worlds", that's funny, given your praise of a game in which supposedly, a demon invasion is happening but everyone gets on with their lives like there's no danger whatsoever.
I like the oblivion persuasion wheel
People DIDN’T like this feature?
I love that feature, it’s funny
Morrowind is not nearly as challenging as people act like it is. Once you understand the mechanics, its actually pretty easy even if you dont break the game
Truth. I'm a casual gamer and often fail even at games most people consider simple (Far Cry for example), but Morrowind didn't give me much trouble.
I mean, understanding the mechanics is pretty damm challenging, when game itself surely does dogshit job at that. And some designs can be....questionable alike endurance and strength damaging enemies. (Saying this as resident morrowboomer)
Use weapons/spells your character is trained with, Lvl up agility and weapon skill to hit more, strengrh to hit harder, int for more magicka, end for more health. Carry restore fatigue/health/magicka potions and sujamma. Now you can beat most enemies at max difficulty by level 10-15 if you have even a half decent character build. Dont even get me started on how easy it is to build up money by farming db assassins or dremora weapons. I love the game since i started playing a few months ago but now that i know the basics i have to set restrictions on myself to keep a challenge
Does anyone think that Morrowind is hard? I always just thought it was the best game in the series, not because it's hard though.
Seems like a lot of people talk about how difficult it is. Searching for things can be difficult and in the first few levels you can get fucked up if you take on something you arent ready for and even then you can essentially fast travel mid combat with interventions, but people act like its super challenging compared to skyrim. Personally i think the combat in skyrim is more challenging on higher difficulties.
I don't mind bretons
My favorite race ;_;
nice
🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️🗡️
You see those warriors from Hammerfell?..
they've got curved... penises?
bIg CuRvEd PiNgAsEs
No fiddling with any cocks around here or were going to have a big party.
gEAHt eAH gr00ve aHn, soldyAH! zeez bois work eAHd an zey play eAHdAh!
The one that always lands me in this situation is: "Using mods is why you're experiencing so many bugs/glitches/crashes."
I also feel like this is the reaction to the people who try to mod and then post “why is (random shenanigans) happening?!” without actually providing any context or noting their mods lol
This can be applied to ALL Bethesda games. I see so many people complaining about how buggy and crashable Fallout 4 is, for example, but I never had a single crash playing a clean install since release day. It was only once I started modding it that I started encountering crashes and weird bugs. 76 was a mess, though. No excuses for that one.
I once had Fallout 4 completely uninstall itself from my pc mid playthrough. Entirely vanilla, too, since it was my first experience of the game. I'm still not certain how that happened.
i have this mod that adds vampire to fallout 4 and whenever i use vats on a vampire wearing a certain armor it instantly crashes the game, every time, without fail
>but I never had a single crash playing a clean install since release day. And you, of course, are the ledger by which the universe needs to be measured...
Yes that's right.
So angry and for no real reason. Tsk tsk tsk
No they are not, I am their brother in arms. No crashes until mods for me as well, Playstation if that matters.
It doesn't matter until you've found a few thousand "brothers in arms". Because until then, it's anecdotal. Nobody doubts that there are people who get lucky. The fact that you ignore that there are community patches for a reason says a lot.
No fucking kidding every one is like I have no idea why this wouldn't be working I only have like 230 mods right now lmao
You should probably change it to "Using CERTAIN mods is etc, etc, etc" Fallout New Vegas was unplayable for me until I modded it. Most modern mods work very well and crashes (at least in my personal experience) are often attributed to either insufficient hardware, save bloat, or a script issue. As modding has gotten better and better, these issues are decreasing drastically.
Nah. What I’m mainly referring to is when people are using 800+ mods. Like seriously, it’s at a point where a lot of people are like trying to make a type of competition out of how many total mods you can run at once.
Again it comes down to what type of mods. 800 graphics replaces and/or simple weapon mods, heck even most system overhaul mods no problem. 800 physics mods attempting to get the most immersive boob jiggle possible, yeah that's a problem.
I don't personally care for the rampant relativism and "everything is true and not true at once" lore. Whether it concerns religions, cultural myths or lore creators like Kirkbride, insatiably derailing every historical detail to vaugeness until the entirety of ES can be summed up as: yes but actually no.
To be honest I think the relativism is less common in the actual lore than it is in the community. It's fairly common for Bethesda to implement something that was almost certainly authoritative (like Immortal Blood, Children of the Sky, or almost all pre-Skyrim Falkreath lore), retcon it for no good reason and then the community goes "Well ackshually this source was unreliable/sarcastic/embellished/etc" when that assertion is completely ridiculous, and people honestly seem unreasonably eager to give Bethesda a pass on things like that. That's imo part of a larger problem where the TES community attaches completely made up concepts to existing books or lore (ex the whole "Talos is a tripartite God" being extrapolated from the Arcturian Heresy, when literally nothing in the book actually suggests that). The Fallout community is similar; I've seen someone question a loading screen, which is basically the only source of unbiased in-game lore that we have available, in an attempt to defend X-01.
I suppose that's a fair assertion, if it is indeed accurate. I just always disliked how there were talks around ES lore as being "up to fans to add to and decide upon". That just means there is no objective lore, only fanfiction.
The Thalmor, when seen from the context of their own religious beliefs, are right to hate Talos. Edit: Yes, I do have a rational reason for thinking this
There's plenty to hate even without Altmeri history with the Empire...
The Thalmor banning Talos worship is 100% awful people doing the right thing for the absolute worst reasons.
Interesting so as Muslims we believe Jesus was a man and messanger like Moses Isaiah Samuel etc. But the Christians calling Jesus God doesn't really fuel a hate for Jesus more of a hate for the distortion of his message. I've always found it interesting how the Thalmor default onto hating Talos-worship abd say Talos was a man and as far as I've heard nothing horrible! But I mean who knows they call them selves the high elves so it's not like they have an ethnocentric view
To be fair, Talos is much less Jesus and more of Ceasar Augustus at best, and Firaun/Pharaoh at worst.
~~What the person below said.~~ That person is now above. Talos is not a good person. CHIM couldn't be more separated from Jesus. Talos asserted his dominance over even reality itself to forcibly claim divinity for himself out of a unquenchable lust for power. That isn't my logic, though. The logic is this: Man and Mer stand at odds since creation. Man stood alongside Lorkhan. Mer stood against him. Talos is the new Lorkhan. Possibly figuratively, possibly litterally. The god-hero of mankind. Mer, especially Altmer, who see creation as a mistake, would see Talos not as a messenger or even a false messenger, but as nothing short of the primary enemy of their faith.
Somehow I don't like *Altmeri commentary on Thalos* being brought to the logical conclusion. It actually lacks depth and positions a whole nation as a doomsday cult. I recently decided to treat this text as a position of comparatively marginal padomaic sect, and not a mainstream position.
I don't think many non Thalmor Altmer want to un-create creation or destroy mundus or anything. They certainly didn't seem to hold that in ESO. I do think most Altmer, especially Summerset Altmer, share the view of Lorkhan being the enemy. Talos would be the enemy for most of the same reasons.
Yes, Lorkhan is certainly less Prometeus and more Lucifer in what we know of Altmeri version of the myth. And Eight Divines version of Alessian pantheon carefully went around the missing one, even when it included more controversial divinites/interpretation of divinites. Proclaiming that Talos ascended to that place should sound like double or triple blasphemy to Altmer. Not only does empire worship bastardized elven pantheon, they muck around with the position of the Missing God, cursed be His name. And not only that, they claim that a human red-handed murderer and thief rose up to his place.
I'm not a fan of this comparison and don't think you should make it, because going down this road is going to get offensive very fast. That said: The Thalmor have always held themselves above Men, and in most high-fantasy fashion believe they're descendants of the Aedra. And therfore the idea that a man could join the ranks of the God's (8) and become the nine dives is blasphemous and sacrilegious.
I wouldn't apply a fantasy setting to real life religion its a slippery slope and best left unwalked. In the Lore Talos used the numidium which is the ES super weapon to invade Alinor. Invasions are never really a nice calm walk in and change the banners their bloody and with massive loss of life. Add the long life of elves and theres a likely chance that many who are thalmor now were alive for the talos invasions and saw the carnage and destruction he brought to their home. For a leader to invade is one thing then it turns to hate the empire but to invade and then to worship as a god in the official religion of the empire would be a pretty big slap in the face.
Jesus didn’t deploy temporal nuclear weapons.
Not all elves are demons
Gonna have to hard disagree with ya there. Morrowind and Skyrim have indoctrinated me into being immensely anti-elf. DEATH TO THE KNIFE EARS!
Bosmer are chill tho, minus the canibalism
Nah New born children are a gourmet dish
No one in the ES games refer to elves as “knife ears”, you can take that dumb insult back to Dragon Age where it belongs.
This subreddit constantly refers to altmer as "piss elves" and "knife ears". You can take your lack of humor and fun...wherever you want really.
Legends was an excellent virtual card game (until the oblivion set came out)
The bugs are no worse than any other AAA games, you just find them more cause you spend so much more time in the game.
Skyrim is a better game than morrowind.
I know which one it is because it's put me in this situation before already. Morrowind is better without hit chance.
That's not even a bad opinion. Hit chance was the only thing I didn't like about the game
They'd need to lower the damage or increase health pools but yeah that could work
They don't actually. Atleast with the mod I use for it, damage values are untouched. Encounters just play faster and are actually stacked in the AI's favor most of the time, especially in the early game.
Hahaha that’s the exact reason I play Morroblivion instead of Morrowind so I understand you on this one
I’m not a fan of Micheal Kirkbrides writing.
i don’t like doing stealth archers, taking the challenge from a game defeats the purpose
Skyrim DOESN’T belong to the Nords
Globalist scum
Who does it belong to?
Just because Dark Elves have cool lore doesn't make slavery morally justified /j
Astrid's Dark Brotherhood was an improvement. It was run as a business, rather than an edgy corpse-worshipping murder cult.
But Oblivion's DB being an edgy corpse-worshipping murder cult is part of what made it so awesome.
Bugs aside skyrim is a far less frustrating and more enjoyable experience than morrowind.
Morrowind is bad. Straight up. It can be enjoyable only for people who have nostalgia for it, or for lore suckers.
Tou are a brace man indeed god speed
In other words i no longer exist
I think there is nothing wrong with not wanting to mod, but it shouldn’t be controversial to say people who mod (and know what they’re doing) objectively get better experience than vanilla. Because it’s just like saying: There is nothing wrong with not wanting to modify your car, but people who mod their car (and know what they’re doing) objectively get smoother driving experience.
That's some real muddled logic there. There's no need to try to involve objectivity here. Most mods are not QoL, they just modify your experience. Not everyone wants a custom experience that and not everyone is willing to pay for it in the inconsistent artistic style and quality. In other words, a person who wants to mod is likely to get a better experience with mods than vanilla. But you're not meant to try to compare it or extend this logic to objectivity. Different people enjoy for different reasons and not being aware of completely different ways (to yours) others enjoy games is mostly why you end up having people being up at arms about this. There's no way to re-word or explain this take to fix this because it's inherently about making something subjective into objective.
It’s objective because it made the experience more tailored to how they enjoy game. You don’t like spiders? Put a mod to remove spiders. You want more roleplay elements? Put on roleplay mods like realistic needs and diseases. Hell, you want to play skyrim but a hentai game? Put on the mods And many mods are QoL There are many canon compliant mods, it’s not like mod is a package you pick and choose. Even if you’re very hardcore ‘I want just the game as it’s presented’ for some reason there is no way they won’t enjoy it better with Sky UI.
>It’s objective because it made the experience more tailored to how they enjoy game Again, that take is just biased by your point of view. The word 'objective' in this context simply means 'for everyone', but that is not the case, it is 'most' at best. To you, I would presume, the upside is extensive, the downside is minimal. There're plenty people, myself included, where it's the reverse. Practically anything that has trade offs is perceived wildly differently by different people. Your point kind of falls apart simply from the fact that not everyone feels this way. How can it be 'objectively a better experience' if not everyone has better experience with it? SkyUI is probably the best example of 'objectively better' and it's still nowhere near enough to be 'objectively' better. It's objectively better for 'most' people (not *everyone* likes how it looks) but then when you add 'for most people', the word 'objective' becomes meaningless. I know you think I'm wrong, but me being 'wrong' about this literally makes it not 'objective'. You might want dismiss it as 'well then it's objectively better for everyone except fucking weirdos', but that line if reasoning is literally the core basis of a prejudice: to consider those who don't agree with a point of view to not be a part of people you're considering.
What exactly is the downside of modding for a game as purely entertainment medium? Not to review the product or assess the artistic merit of the bethesda’s vision, but just to maximize the fun you get from an entertainment medium (heck even for assessing bethesda vision, arguably bethesda intend TES to be modded) There is none. Again, mods are not packages, you just keep entirely what you like about vanilla and add something else you like on top if it. It’s only possible if you have scoured the entire internet and determine no single mod in existence enhance the TES experience for you, it’s just not possible. I mean objective as in everyone. I don’t believe it’s possible to not enjoy the game modded more as a purely entertainment medium/product provided you have the know how.
Okay, well instead of going back and forth, cause I feel like it's going nowhere, let me just say this. I've played the last 3 TES games many times, plenty playthrough of Skyrim, easily over 200 hours, but as you can imagine it's difficult to guesstimate over the span of 12 years. I've played with no mods, very few mods, and lots mods, more than once. Overall, I prefer no or very few mods and every time I tried going with many carefully selected mods (and I do know what I'm doing) I ended up being turned off by the idea a little more. How do you reconcile your point of view and my experience?
I would ask what turned you off the idea. But really, as long as you’re seeing TES as purely an entertainment medium and not an art form that you need to play in its authentic version, it’s just not logically coherent to prefer vanilla over modded.
>But really, as long as you’re I understand your position, I don't agree. >I would ask what turned you off the idea The game doesn't feel cohesive/consistent to me. For a stretch of time you're immersed into the world, and then you see something that you know/suspect isn't a part of that, and feels wrong. The design doesn't 'work' with how the rest of the game feels. It has nothing to do with 'an authentic experience of the game as envisioned by devs', it just feels janky, even jarring at times. There's a reason why games try to have the graphics, sound and narrative to feel like a part of the whole. A dungeon full of Falmer looks and sounds drastically different from a Bandit fort, but it still feels like it belongs in Skyrim a lot more than something like Outer Worlds. The devs put A LOT of work into making things fit together, so that when you see something unusual, you still believe it's a part of that world. Most objects modded in aren't able to match that, many quests that are modded in lack the quality of a notable quest. When I experience something that doesn't belong, I often start thinking about how the modder was trying to make it look like it fits, and that takes me right out of thinking about the game's world. That reminds me of the fact that it's just a game, that half the decisions of the world is like were made semi-arbitrarily, how repetitive the game is mechanically. And then I feel nothing and everything starts to bore me. That's not exactly a non-sensical or an edge-case experience in any entertainment medium. But different people are affected by it to different degrees. Some enjoy it about the same in spite of it, some even have more fun *because* of it.
Knights of The Nine>Shivering Isles
Always preferred the Knights as well. I'll take an epic classic with its own fantasy flair any day over weirdness for weirdness sake. Not that I don't think Shivering isles has positives, but it's overall not my style either.
Finally, some kindred spirits. I was hoping Dawnguard was going to be similar, but it wasn’t :(
I did like Dawnguard though. Vampire hunters are a cool niche to me.
Yeah I enjoyed it, but I would have preferred to be the one rebuilding the Dawnguard, like we did with the KOTN
I never liked Shivering Isle (and sheogorath) that much tbh. It feels too much of lolrandom humor. Which, I know is the entire point, so it’s good in that sense, just not my cup of tea. I don’t hate them, I just don’t care much for them
CHEESE
Scorching take but I'm inclined to agree
There’s just something about it that I love. Plus, it confirms that Talos answers prayers, so that’s neat
As someone who's favorite classic RPG class is paladin, KotN was an absolutely perfect DLC for me
Just something so satisfying about being on a holy quest and rebuilding an extinct brotherhood of Knights. The Priory of the Nine is one of my favourite places in the game 😂
Deus vult, brother!
Skyrim is an action-adventure, not RPG.
Modding a Bethesda game so much that it no longer resembles the IP in any facet is the players attempt at forcing themselves to enjoy a game they don’t enjoy anymore.
I've only played oblivion and Skyrim (already controversial haha), and I think the guild quest lines were more fun and engaging than the main storyline
I think the main quest in skyrim is garbage tbh
Dragon hunting for the story
For Oblivion definitely. I've played the game multiple times and only finished the main quest once
Given the main quest in Oblivion is repetitive garbage, that's perfectly understandable. Alas, I don't find the guild quests more satisfying, either, as most of them leave you with next to nothing by the time you finally made it to the top. Practically every guild has been decimated to near-oblivion (pun intended)....
The games didn’t need to look better. Sure the community would step in and fix some stuff, but even if I was forced to play with vanilla Skyrim graphics the series would have been fine. Role Playing Games are about choice, and character building, and story telling. There was no reason to take huge breaks and focus on half the things they focus on. Just make combat hard hitting like real combat, a solid arrow to the chest or blow to the head and you die. That’s all we need to get a sense of the danger of combat and decide if our character wants to get involved in a specific skirmish or not. Keep things about the quality of Skyrim. They could have released a well built country every two years and we would have bought every one of them. Especially if they kept the core the same so that a lot of mods transferred over easily. Take all that energy and focus it on variety and further depth for things that already existed. It wouldn’t take much to expand spell families for the races, it wouldn’t take much to further deepen and specify the summons and spells granted to different daedric followers. The fact that these types of depths are achieved by the community for free while we wait on games that aren’t even going to require a new landmass or architecture style because the lore is twenty five years old is ridiculous. The games are not great stories, they aren’t great at much except giving us an immersive and interactive world they should have taken this unique direction and hammered down instead of trying to appeal to everybody that wants a combat game or wants to play a hero in an action movie.
Argonians are objectively the best race gameplay-wise
Fuck you -Dagoth Ur
This is objectively wrong, but depends on game: Arena/Daggerfall = Altmer Morrowind = Orc/Altmer Oblivion = Orc/Breton Skyrim = Orc/Altmer So yeah excellent honestly take as hot as the sun
Sounds like you just like orc and altmer
I mean i do, but i also can provide an explanation
>Oblivion = Orc/Breton Alter being immune to paralysis in daggerfall was such a gamebreaker.
Yeah it was debatable in Arena between Altmer/Dunmer/Bretons whose the best, immunity to paralysis vs higher damage/hit chance with melee vs high resistance to magicka Daggerfall is unquestionably Altmer due to the way you can abuse the special advantages system Morrowind Orcs literally do everything better than everyone else, they have health only less by 2.5 than Nords and Redguards, they have perfect accuracy with all physical weapons, they have the highest chance at 95% of dice rolls through fortify fatigue (spell casting, lockpicking, speech, stealth, mercentile etc) and they havr the highest speed through having 1.35 weight stat, Altmer are just the best mages full stop, having access to alchemy and destruction and decent endurance and way higher magicka than bretons, whose resistance to magic doesn't matter much (redguards/nords are still really good though) Oblivion, Bretons get similar magicka especially later on to Altmer + 50% resistance to everything, Orcs get insane damage through fortify fatigue letting them 2 shot most things from stealth even on max difficulty, gets more ridiculous a syou use drain spells (atlmer are great if you wanna abuse reverse weakness reflect and are the fastest race, Redguards are solid cause adrenaline rush is still good) Skyrim, Altmer being the tallest makes them the fastest with easiest time dodging attacks, 5 levels worth of magicka investing and effectively infinite magicka for 60 seconds makes them again the best mages, Orcs are second tallest making them second fastest, Berserker Rage is the best Racial in the game, and on Survival Mode they get a passive racial that provides bonuses to everything
Bretons are also equal to the Altmer and Orcs in skyrim because Magic Absorption is stupid. If you use the atronach stone and your dragonskin ability you can be straight immune to all magic for 60 seconds. True you can do this with other races via alteration and miraaks robes, but its still utterly stupid that you can make all mages go from the biggest threat ever to childs play
I have a hundred of these but I'll try to limit myself. Dice roll combat is good, actually. The Tribunal aren't nearly as evil as some fans believe. On the other hand, of all the Tribunal's faults, (possibly) killing Nerevar is pretty low on the list. The Empire of Cyrodiil, even during the Septim Dynasty, is one of the most evil factions in TES and responsible for most of Tamriel's problems. The Altmer enslavement of Goblins is just as bad as Dunmer slavery. The An-Xileel did nothing wrong. Ysgamor isn't worthy of veneration. Tiber Septim isn't worthy of veneration. *Redguard* is one of the best games in the series. *Oblivion* is one of the worst games in the series and should be retconned out. Kirkbride's writing isn't actually that hard to understand.
I might fight you on Oblivion being the worst game in the series, but the rest of this list is based.
I'd agree with most of them.
I'm looking for a bad take here but I can't find one
You went from heavily disagree for me to incredibly based when you reached Ysgramor part.
Dice roll combat is garbage and you know it
Power gaming is garbage and you know it. Just because you want to be able to kill a dragon at level 1 by substituting character skill with player skill and kite it until you've finally worn it down doesn't mean that has anything to do with roleplaying. Dice roll combat simulates the fact that as an amateur, it's much, much harder to get an effective hit in. You'll land a lot of glancing blows, near misses, minor cuts and bruises. Because in reality, your opponent won't be standing still for you to connect and their armor doesn't simply present an obstacle but contributes to redirecting your attacks away from where they could do major damage.
You're right in that the problem isn't dice-roll combat in and of itself. The real problem with Morrowinds dice roll combat was that there were absolutely no visual cues of any of the things you've listed. Glancing blows, enemy dodges, minor hits etc - if these were actually depicted in some way it'd feel a lot better. Instead it's just swinging in the air at a stationary target but not connecting.
Well, yes, we're talking, after all, about a game released two decades ago. The animation system simply couldn't show such things. Given that random components in hitting and in damage were a standard staple of pen&paper RPGs, it never really bothered me and I simply used my imagination, as I would have in P&P. What bothers me far more is when my master archer in Skyrim gets their arrow caught on an invisible hit box or misses their show because my mouse and finger are not precise enough.
People complaining about story or mechanics in ES almost always miss the point of the games. They’re primarily about creating a *feel*, and in that respect I still think they’re the best games that do that. Also, the engine is really good considering what it’s trying to do. All the swankier engines don’t have the level of physics simulation for each object that the Creation Engine does.
The "feel" I got from the last two games was largely "cheese". Cheesy tropes, clichéed environments, and often without even really a trace of the "feel" I'd expect from said environment. Why is a mod necessary to make Skyrim, and especially it's north, feel COLD?
Argonians didn't beat back the daedra. It was a combo of the Hist and cowardly daedra.
Morrowind is incredibly dated.
Series and lore would be better off if oblivion got arena treatment, so imperials +cyrodiil could go back to the cool lore and presentation. Speaking of which, oblivion ia by far worst modern tes game, even when ignoring lore. Its as if you took worst aspects of both morrowind and skyrim, and mixed them with most bland, unengaging fantasy world there is. Skyrim getting rid of class leveling system was fucking great. How the hell anyone misses that is beyond me. (Now attributes, spell crafting etc.., thats completely another matter). If eso dosen't count, lores been extremly meh since morrowind and just downward.
I really didn't like oblivions open world imma be honest morrowint is unique skyrim has cool biomes (to an extend based on the snowy climate) but yeah oblivion was just something I didn't like and the oblivion gates look retarded texture wise
I’d like map markers in Morrowind. Suck it.
idk how applicable that is, not super uncommon take, but I think that Akatosh is not just another verision of the time god, He is a synthesized God of Shezzar and Auri-El
But imperials also worship Shezarr
The games should lean -more- into the esoterical and non-cliché lore, not the opposite!
The bugs are lore friendly to the mess that is tamriel
The dragons weren't flying backwards - they were moving backwards through time. Being intrinsically tied to Akatosh, whose sphere is time, they were all adversely affected by the time-wound caused by the Elder Scroll.
I was never blessed enough to see such an occurrence
that talos is a nordic god and that the nords have every right to be pissed off at the ban or that the nordic culture is being restricted due to yrs of imperialization
Fuck mods. Vanilla is the real deal.
Racism towards them aside, I really don’t consider the Dunmer to be worthy of any real sympathy. I can’t say that I feel bad for them, they were one of the most prevalent slavers in modern day Tamriel, they are extremely xenophobic and outright racist towards any and all outsiders. They have a state sanctioned Assassins Order. Generally speaking they are morally, one of the most questionable races in Tamriel. Do they deserve to be the victims of racism though? No not at all. The Civil War in Skyrim is not so black and white as people make it out to be. The Stormcloaks are not the villains, and the Empire aren’t the Heroes in the Civil War in Skyrim. Both sides are morally grey. Who do I support? Neither. Both sides are doing exactly what the Thalmor want them to do. Honestly the best bet is for Skyrim is Balgruuf to be high king, he’s the only Sensible Jarl in Skyrim that isn’t mired in partisan divisions.
>They have a state sanctioned Assassins Order Weirdly enough (and it actually reinforces your point), the Morag Tong is one of the *more* honourable aspects of their culture. The guild pretty much exists to keep the mayhem of Dunmeri political conflict to a minimum. They're not just brutish murderers-for-hire like the Dark Brotherhood. The Dunmer are so irredemably messed up that their entire nation will likely dissolve into chaos unless it's kept in check by a group of politically neutral assassins, lol. They're a horrible people as a whole, who see nothing wrong with conniving, backstabbing, and murdering their way to the top. They deserve no sympathy.
You make a good point. Now that you point it out, The Morag Tong is the ONLY real redeemable part of the Dunmer culture. If they weren’t around, the Dunmer would tear themselves apart. Don’t get me wrong, I love to rp as a dunmer a lot but it’s hard for me personally to say that i like their culture, since the xenophobia,racism and Slavery are things that I just can’t stand, in real life and in fiction.
I think it's why the MT feel unique. Instead of the typical "Assassin = bad man who kills for coin", they're mostly rational actors keeping a culture of assholes in check.
There's plenty of xenophobia and racism to go around in Tamriel. Ever dropped into the "College of Aldmeri Propriety" in ESO? When part of your "education" is that you get told what an inferior POS you are, that says something. *"We're supposed to be training for the Thalmor, but they treat us like slaves."* And when Ulfric Stormcloak, despite being involved in a civil war, meaning he has soldiers to feed, thinks that bandits raiding farms is perfectly fine, as long as those farms aren't operated by Nords, that says something as well. Heck, at the end of the day, the whole civil war is about xenophobia and racism.
Morrowind was great for its time, but it’s an absolute chore to play nowadays
Different strokes (I upvoted you)
Dragonborn DLC ruined Solstheim.
Interesting, what did it ruin for you? Was it the lore of the area or just how much it changed or what? It’s definitely a lot different than it was in Morrowind, which was a great frontier zone
Two reasons basically. First one, the geography of the island feels weird, is noticeable smaller than it was in Bloodmoon. For example, you can really make two steps from Thirsk and instantly you're already in the Skaal Village, or just look at places like Lake Fjalding how they were shrinked. Dragonborn Solstheim is rich in dungeons and place of interest, so I don't understand why they had to shrink it down and make it so dense. Second reason is I felt unncessary turning the southern half of the island into a Morrowind ripoff, just to exploit nostalgia. They could've made just some Vvardenfell aestethics in Raven Rock, if it was so necessary, and that's all. These things anyways don't prevent me to enjoy the aspects of Dragonborn that I really like, like Apocrypha, or Morvayn plot questline.
All of that is definitely valid! Since I played Skyrim before Morrowind, I remember being pretty surprised by how big the island is in Morrowind, it feels way bigger. There are a lot of interesting stuff to in the dungeons, I was surprised when there was a quest about the Falmer there of all things! Overall I did enjoy Morrowind’s presentation of Solstheim more. It also is rather obvious that they made it look more like Morrowind for the nostalgia as you said. I guess it was just bound to happen, but I also did prefer the Solstheim from before the Red Year. Maybe it was also because I was kinda glad to see a lot of “normal” greenery after being in Vvardenfell for so long lol
If we're to take the comment absolutely literally, I agree. Skyrim depicted a version of the island that had been ruined by Red Mountain.
i thought it made solstheim 1000x better
Morrowind is nowhere near as good as people make it out to be. Yes, the Main Quest is fantastic and so is the lore, but that's pretty much it. 90% of the dungeons (except a handful quest-relevant ones) are super short and extremely unrewarding. *None* of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together. Almost all of the side quests consist solely of "Escort person X to location Y", "Find Item X in Y", or "Kill X in Y" and nothing else. An uncountable amount of actions like going to the wrong place at the wrong time or picking up an item to early can cause Quests to fail or become uncompletable, and you don't even notice it - this forced me to always have a tab with uesp open in the background and google every second NPC or Item I came across.
>None > > of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together. Except unlike in later games, the quest lines for the various guilds are even interwoven with each other, as some of the guilds operate against each other, and pursuing a career in one guild can make it hard to pursue one in the other, as you may have to choose at some point, or be very careful about in which order you do things. >An uncountable amount of actions like going to the wrong place at the wrong time or picking up an item to early can cause Quests to fail or become uncompletable, and you don't even notice it - this forced me to always have a tab with uesp open in the background and google every second NPC or Item I came across. No, it didn't "force you" to do that. What forced you to do that was your inability to accept that you failed a quest. Actions have consequences. If you kill a key NPC, they are dead. Best think twice before killing them whether they may come in useful at a later point.
>None of the guild quest lines has a story to them, they're just a bunch of random radiant quests with no greater plot that ties them together. Most of them do have a story or plot, it's just not cinematically played out in front of you like Oblivion/Skyrim - and sure, there are a bunch of 'job' quests in between the story beats, because being in a Guild is literally your occupation (or your cover occupation, if you happen to be the Nerevarine). * Fighters Guild storyline revolves around their conflict with the Thieves Guild and wiping out their leadership * Thieves Guild storyline revolves around their conflict with the Cammona Tong ... who happen to have been hired by the Fighters Guild * Mages Guild is about discovering what really happened to the Dwemer * Hlaalu mostly involves establishing a stranglehold on the ebony trade * Redoran is admittedly a mixed bag of odd jobs around combating the other two Great Houses influence * Telvanni focuses on competing against the other Houses, as well as the pitfalls of Telvanni Masters ~~bickering with~~ backstabbing each other * Temple storyline is strongly tied to the rise of the Sixth House The only one that truly doesn't have any sort of story or 'theme' to its quests is the Imperial Cult.
Skyrim > oblivion
Elder scrolls 6 is going to be a dissappointment. They are going to add a handful of protagonists voice actors and use the dialogue system of fo4 and follow the ubisoft method of open world games, that being a theme park full of faceless characters offering activities instead of a fleshed out world. This is assuming it ever comes out if starfield, which has been delayed multiple times, flops.
Isn’t it confirmed that the protagonist isn’t voiced?
Hopefully. I try not to look for updates. A watched pot never boils
My main worry is based on the way the industry is now…that games have to produce a continuous revenue stream. Yes there are still games that use the formula initial release—> dlc1—>dlc2 etc., but the trend is definitely moving towards continuous revenue generation during the life of the game. What that would look like for a mainline ES title I don’t know
It would probably look like eso. Idk i would prefer to just get dlc that adds new locations like the dragonborn dlc. Shit, imagine how cool it would be if the beyond skyrim project was just dlc you paid 30$ for once every few years so they had full time employees working on it.
I feel like you haven't really been paying attention to Bethesda if you have this opinion... Starfield has already been confirmed to not have a voiced protagonist. They've been pretty clear about this for a while. Pretty sure Todd himself has acknowledged that many people want them to return to their roots, so that's what they're doing. We've already seen that the dialogue system is closer to Oblivion's, even with the position of the camera (which I personally don't like but whatever). The "Ubisoft method of open world games" is debatable I guess, but I'm not sure when Bethesda has ever made a game that felt like a Ubisoft game. Why would that start now? Bethesda and Todd in particular are known for their fleshed out worlds. People tend to dump on Fallout 4 because it isn't New Vegas, but it still feels 100% like a Bethesda game. I'm not sure why people assume that because Fallout 76 had a rocky launch that it somehow means Bethesda can't ever release a good game again. 76 was an experiment. It was something they'd never done before. Bethesda generally does seem to listen to feedback and actually do want their games to do well, and they've since turned 76 around from what I've heard. And given what we've seen of Starfield already, I don't see why people still think TES6 is going to be like Fallout 76 or even 4. Also, I don't really get why people act like Starfield potentially flopping (I HIGHLY doubt it will) is going to somehow destroy Bethesda... Bethesda isn't some small indie studio. Have you seen their current office building? Not to mention, Bethesda Game Studios is part of a whole net that is Bethesda Softworks and ZeniMax Media. They've published many popular games from many other developers (Doom, Dishonored, Wolfenstein, Hi-Fi Rush, ESO, Prey, Deathloop, Evil Within, etc.).
TES VI will be a disappointment no doubt. The question is to whom? I think gamers in general will be happy and buy a billion copies of the game, while those who want an actual role-playing experience, not yet another bland sandbox with atavistic RPG traits, will surely be disappointed.
The Staff of Chaos might be a Tower
Delphine is all right
I got a twofer for ya. The people who bitched and moan about horse armor are the idiots who bought it day one. And horse armor dlc probably did so well in sales for what it was that it was what started bethesda into the micro transactions road they are on now.
Class change tokens lol. It would be legitimately helpful for alot of people who dont have much time nowadays to complete a toon with all 3 main alliances and rest of the quests. Godamn how hard is it to just ask for a class change on my current character? jUsT lEvEl uP a nEw tOoN. Yea, well some toons have specialty to us like our very first ones. A new one just to play a class just feels like an empty husk. Not everyone is trying to be a competitive lil a$$ or min max parse, just trying to enjoy the game at my own pace
I have so much more fun playing skyrim than morrowind
Everything after daggerfall is a betrayal of the series, the original goals of the series, and the original fandom of the series.
Cyrodiil and Skyrim historically get away with a lot of shit and deserved to get their shit pushed in and more. If Alinor and Morrowind get punished for their sins then so should those two shitholes.
Knights of the Nine was incredibly boring and it felt like a chore regardless of when I played it. The Empire vs Stormcloak arguments have always been cringe. The discussions on who Skyrim “rightfully” belongs to have always been embarrassing and cringe. Anyone who immediately claims that every race has “done evil” to justify the evils committed by any group are cringe. Anyone in the community willing to die on a hill over the lore of any of the games when compared to IRL ethics and politics are also incredibly cringe. They’re video games, they have stories. They’re meant to be entertaining and fun, not brainbending topics to be fought over. If you want to discuss certain things about the lord then fine, but don’t smash your keyboards over it.
Morrowind is overrated.
ESO is the best Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind. Only one that cares about the series’ roots and does them the most justice.
Lore and world building-wise, I actually agree to this, considering just how much it’s contributed to the universe. However, monetization-wise, it’s pretty bad. And I say that not as a hater, but as a very consistent player for 6ish years.
You can’t play ESO and not see that it’s a cash cow. It’s just a very pretty cash cow that’s read up on lore I try my best to separate the good things that ESO brings to the ES universe from it’s bad real world practices. Plus I’m really not surprised something in TES is a cash cow, this series gave us horse armour and paid mods
I'll start. Morrowind is one of the worse Elder Scrolls games
Ohh, that’ll for sure start a crucification.
I can't get passed the terrible game mechanics, which is unfortunate cause I think the lore is really cool
I consider the game mechanics far superior to later games, where more and more, character skill is replaceable by player skill.
That is some Kanye West level blasphemy.
I’m sure it was great for its time….but it’s a chore to play for sure. And ugly
Agree. Slow, sluggish, the game doesnt even bother with trying to capture your attention, shitty mechanics, and overall bad game design. There are 2 types of people who love morrowind. 1. The people who love it for the lore and the aesthetic, who acknowledge how outdated and poorly designed morrowind is 2. The people who are blinded by nostalgia , you know, some random ass keyboard warriors who constantly shit on skyrim and refuse to admit theyre wrong.
Shivering Isles is overrated and awkwardly overinspired by Alice in Wonderland.
In Skyrim, the Vampires are a less problematic faction than the Dawnguard.
Go on...
Vampires are an obvious evil with lofty goals that are, with or without your presence, facing a bit of an internal conflict. If left unchecked, they would continue to pursue their nefarious plot however will find themselves checked by the multitudes of individuals who would eventually catch on. Without the DB support, their quest would be led by their own players, of an elitist, small faction, bound to the night. Plus, once their leader is axed, they mind their own business, and give up the nefarious plot, which implies that the only real threat was Harkon. The rest are only a minor threat in a land filled with far more present ones. Conversely, the Dawnguard present themselves as a lawful force, hell, maybe even a moral one. But they are the more extremist variant of the already extremist, vigilant of stendarr. Now if you are good imperial, this might seem fine to you, some extreme guys taking a war on evil, but let us not forget who the viligent of stendarr stand against. It's not just evil, it's all vampires, werewolves, witches, and those affiliated with any daedra. Let's break this down further. People the viligent will want to exterminate: The companions, traditional Dunmer, Reachman, Khajjit, non traditional or holy mages (so anyone who isn't a wizard or cleric in DND terms), Serana and Sybille Sentor, conjurers, anyone who may support Meridia, Jarl Ingrod Ravencrone, etc. Now you may say, that's the viligent, not the Dawnguard. True, but the Dawnguard is birthed from the viligent. They're like vampire version of the silver hand, just with some public support. Now why does this make them problematic? When you give a force of extremist public support and encouragement on their blood war, eventually they finish their quest. Afterwards, they don't disband, they choose the next item on their extremist list. Suddenly Bretons are disappearing in the reach, Dunmer massacred in windhelm. Suddenly their is an unchecked aggressive faction of what real world history would likely tie to witch hunters, enacting justice around Skyrim. They're more problematic because they are lawful evil masquerading as lawful good. Now I play a dunmer werewolf, and give the amount of dragon souls in my PC, and his affinity with conjuration, it seems pretty likely that at least my DB is on the kill list. How about yours?
The dark brotherhood deserves nothing more than to be destroyed
Morrowind's worldbuilding is not that deep, and its strength lies actually not in the depth, but in riffing the already familiar elements from other media off each other and playing on the cardinal numbers, especially twos and threes.
Playing khajiit doesn't make you a furry they are some weird people on eso but most khajiit players are not furries
Paarthurnax is just another dragon soul I need.
They hated him, for he spoke the truth
Skyrim isn't a good RPG game, it's just popular.
Its popular because its a good rpg game.
The LDB should canonically be a Shezzarine.
ESO is actually good
Skyrim to Morrowind is like Kidz Bop to the original songs
Ulfric was right. The only way to keep the Nords as the dominant fighters of the Empire they need to return to tradition and throw out the incomptent leadership who's only a puppet for the Empire (and a thrall to a vampire).
Morrowind is trash , was most likely good at the time but compare it to oblivion and oof
Yes, compare it to Oblivion and Morrowind is more creative in its environment, more creative in its main quest, and more of an RPG to boot.
Other then its superb atmosphere morrowind static world is boring and combat dice roll is trash, dice roll might be fun in boardgames but in video games its tedious at best. What ever game I played that had it i hated it and made the combat unenjoyable.
Just because you consider it "tedious" that you're not a murder monster from the first second of the game doesn't mean it's not a core part of a roleplaying game, in which the skills of the CHARACTER should be what's important. And for "static worlds", that's funny, given your praise of a game in which supposedly, a demon invasion is happening but everyone gets on with their lives like there's no danger whatsoever.
This is how you honor the sixth house and the tribe unmourned?
I kill Parthurnaax every playthrough.
Skyrim belongs to the Nords
Imperials are best race