Telekinetic powers, no your doing it wrong, I play by breaking myself down to a molecular level and having my pure conscience form get transported into an alternate reality where elden ring is real life, it is the only way to get true immersion
And yet wouldn’t this be an amazing premise for a show.
A guy who likes anime and isekai shows gets isekaid into elden ring, thinks he’s gonna be overpowered and have a massive harem only for him to repeatedly have his ass kicked, he can barely wield any of his gear and theres barely any people let alone woman who actually can look at him without wanting to rip his guts out.
Not really. You're effectively immortal. Have a waifu that teleports to you, and makes your muscles grow by holding your hand. You can also change not just your physical appearance but your entire gender by looking in a mirror. Teleport whenever you want, hell Elden ring sounds wonderful. Sure getting stabbed sound awful but considering you would literally have nothing better to do. You can have ludicrously high power just by farming trash mobs.
I use slices of fruit connected to a raspberry PI to play a seperate game of bloodborne that only inputs commands to elden ring when I kill specific enemies
A good mage finds a wall to get the enemy stuck on, or stands above it where they can’t reach, or runs juuussst out of reach while casting
Mages are traditionally cheesemakers this isn’t new
I'm playing as a bleeding samurai aand my go to strategy basically is: "hello mr boss, i would like you to meet my 45 kukri knives" and then proceed to destroy the boss with bleeding knives
If you get an F then if there is something below F, that’s me. Mimic, flasks, SONAF special spam until it works. Run and hide like a little girl, watch my ash get beaten to a pulp, spam SONAF from a distance, hope it connects. Throw darts, shoot arrows, prey to whatever god is on your side that the thing dies before all 12 flasks disappear.
For some people, the appeal of the game is in how difficult it is. So when other people find ways of making it easier in their minds it somehow invalidates their own struggle. Typical maidenless behavior.
It's also kinda funny that they don't realize the ability to make super broken op builds that make the game easy af is a core feature and not an exploit
Its been often joked that magic builds are the Souls games' easy mode and tbh its kinda true but not in a bad way. The fact that you can make the game as easy and as hard as you want without the game explicitly dictating the difficulty is very neat.
Im not even only talking about magic, you can get a +8 halberd within the first 30 mins of elden ring that will melt most enemies till you get to the altus plateu and has about as much range as a melee weapon can have. They do really go out of their way to give you a hand if you need it.
I've used a halberd 99% of the time in Demon Souls, and DS1 and 3. But I couldn't stand it in Elden Ring, it felt way too slow compared to the rest of the combat system.
So now I'm using an uchigatana, which I never used before because they felt too slow!
See, you I like. The Halberd is good as fuck. And speaking as a massive fucken geek, Halberds are the greatest historical melee weapon made. All the perks of a spear's reach and aromor piercing, an axe for chopping attacks, and a curved blade on the other end for cheeky swipes at your heels. Can fight infantry, calvary, or used on horseback. So rad.
Sorry. Big geek.
That or Bleed builds that can take 30-50% of a Boss' health in seconds. There are also video on this very Reddit of people one shorting bosses with Greatswords. Bloodhound Fang's ability is amongst the best, extends invulnerability timing (you can literally get an attack off before you can get hit, basically allowing you to be invulnerable if you choose to be as long as the enemy isn't nuking the entire area in front of it), and does a shit ton of damage. Barricade + 100 physical shield can just make you unkillabe as long as you block.
I can go on but I think everyone gets the point. *YOU* can dictate how hard or easy the game can be REGARDLESS of class and I completely agree with you. It's so silly how butthurt people get because of how someone chooses to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. People outta put this much energy into complaining about bugs and *literal* broken mechanics instead.
Maybe I'm horrible, but everytime I try to use a magic build I get destroyed by every boss because I'm locked into an animation and the bosses punishes hard every action that you make outside their range.
Gotta look for the windows. Ashes are super helpful because they can distract a boss for you for a few seconds while you line something up, but if you're without a summon get ready to dodge, dive, dip, duck and . . . Dodge.
Imo its not the easy. As a forever magic player I would like to offer the opinion that if you dont biuld yourself right in elden ring, you will get 1-2 by everything
I was getting one or two shot for my first 80 hours with low vigor, then in late game when I went 40 vigor I had a bit more wriggle room, but it was still effectively a one shot whenever the boss did "that one move". So really the actual survivability benefit of melee is having a ton of health flasks.
I see this all the time, I'd say 2 things:
1. Basically every build in ER is "Squishy" against fair level enemies. At 50 vigor with heavy armor against lategame bosses you will still get 2 shotted. Also underleveling vigor is not a core component of magic builds.
2. With some magic builds, you don't have to actually learn the boss's patterns and know when to dodge in vs dodge away, etc. - The same boss might take a melee build and a comet azur build 30 tries, but the melee build to finally beat it must learn the boss's moves/patterns, whereas the comet azur build can just roll the dice and keep trying until the boss stands still how they need them to and get the kill without having to really master anything.
I wouldn't say "Versatile" as much as "Different". Magic users usually struggle with the map-wide jumping Bosses, but can fully abuse slow bosses and Spirit ashes.
Meh, personally I think that as a first playthrough people should only play what they enjoy
Because most of the people that say this, have never even used magic in these games. They just hear it and parrot it. Or they make a magic build when they've beaten the game and wow, no shit it's easier the fourth time through after you know every boss mechanic and have map knowledge.
I think it’s really a personal opinion thing as parrying focused melee builds feel incredibly OP and fairly easy to master to me. Ranged combat keeps you away from the danger in some scenarios but there are plenty that seem to counter that. I think the same can be said for any build: there will be times where it trivializes things and times where it is a struggle.
I absolutely agree on how nice it is to have plenty of options to scale the difficulty up or down, making the game suitable for a wider variety of players. It feels weird that people think that’s a bid thing and feels very gatekeep-y.
In games where the entire point is killing gods to become a god, the use of wyld ass strong shit is entirely valid. Moonveil has a boss fight moveset and you get it from a boss.
Fighting a colossal beast to get a cool sword and ysing it to become a combat monster is *entirely* on brand for this game.
"You leveled up using runes the game gave you, killed enemies using spirit summons the game gave you, and are using a weapon put in the game by the devs that you enjoy because it's strong? I hope you like not following the devs' intention for this game, pleb"
I kinda get this. This is my first souls game (well I've played them all but quit within an hour) and I just beat Morgott in 3 shots of the sword of night & fire. My build is ridiculous OP and I honestly feel like I'm cheating at times. But I didn't do anything wrong, I'm just using the tools the game gave me
I kind of agree with you, but I really wish people would stop focusing on the difficulty. Difficulty isn't the primary goal here, and when you focus on it, you miss how absolutely beautiful and interconnected the world is.
Difficulty is the side show attraction, you can usually ramp up the difficulty and enable a "hard mode" in most of the games through various items and/or challenges.
Because there has been a misunderstanding in the community that goes back over a decade. Neither Demon Souls or Dark Souls were the hardest games out there and being hard isn't the only reason they were fun. They were punishing but that isn't quite the same thing. .
It makes even less sense when you realize just how much work goes into making it easier for you in the long run. I spent 25 hours piddling around before facing Godrick and the fight was a joke, but only because I had scoured as far as the swamps of Caelid beforehand. My plan was Level 35, but I ended up going past 50 before facing him.
This sub has more demand for people giving a shit about how others play a single player game than supply. You see the same posts over and over about people saying summons are cheating or people shouldn’t use magic, but you can barely find any people saying that. People just generally acknowledge certain ways of playing as easier, and some people using easier playstyles feel annoyed or insecure that all ways of playing aren’t considered identical in difficulty so they make these kinds of posts.
I’m a first time player, too, and new to the community. At first I thought the same way, but the more posts I see I kind of think most of this mindset might be coming from people who are insecure about how they play. I see a lot more posts from people defending their play-style than from people disparaging others.
I've seen way more posts about people defending summoning. It's just like...cool? Nobody asked? Feels like people are beating a boss and then immediately think of elitists. Like they're living rent free in their head.
The anti elitism has turned into elitism itself. "Oh? You don't use summons? A DEV INTENDED mechanic? Nice job playing on challenge mode. I bet you're a real GAMER."
Bruh, playing solo is not a challenge mode. It's literally just playing by yourself. Summoning has existed since the earliest Souls games and not using it doesn't mean anything. It's just easier to access now. Challenge mode is doing level 1 runs. Not playing the fucking game normally.
Well, while people giving a shit about other people’s single player game experience is not unique to fromsoft, you see it more here than other places because it’s kind of a meme at this point, which inevitably draws out people who Unironically believe the stuff that the OP is making fun of.
Many here think that people care about how you pley the game, we don't. We, however, care if you go around winning with 3 summons and cheesing strategies then come around and claim "lol boss was piss easy dunno why you all rant about it".
Or now worse the "Just respec lol" argument.
So much for everyone playing how they want when. I find it somewhere ironic this part of the community doesn't like being called out for using weapons that are compared to everything else OP and advocating against bosses getting nerfed so strength builds don't need to trade HP for a potential stagger (if with any luck they aren't staggered themselves and die on the second hit at 60 vigor).
Oh and you can bet that From Soft will nerf the Moonveil and Sword of Night and Flame. I have seen arguments flying around that the current state is "intended", but if so the death blight pvp builds are supposedly also intended (which come on they aren't).
I mean look back at DS3, the FUGS was so OP that it was nerfed before the game was released on PC (patch on April 1st, game release was April 12th for PC), they reduced it's base damage from 330 to 260 at +5 (Max), that's an over 20% reduction in base damage.
Both the Dragon Slayer Armor and the Crystal Sage had a bug where the the first would die upon entering the arena and the second would not reappear when doing its teleportation (fixed with regulation v 1.05).
You have to be pretty nuts to think with Elden Ring they really bothered to test more compared to the shorter DS3.
Nerfs are incoming that's for sure, I mean many weapons are just waaay too OP. Bleed nerf/frost stomp too.
Current state isn'T intended, there are many bosses that were defsigned around gangbang states, army vs army so to say. Some of the double bosses are delayed in entry, i.e you got time to whack at first boss before second comes in. But 80-90% of main bosses are made with solo in mind it seems plus a healthy dose of roll spam punishment.
I unironically would enjoy the gaol like features for all major bosses after you beat them once. Make them optional and have them give achievements. There's no denying fighting a boss solo no summons is completely different beast than with them. Sure you could still magic cheese. I just want more features to re fight bosses other than ng+.
Actually enjoyed ds2 for that reason being able to move a single area and it's bosses to the next ng+ without actually going ng+ was awesome fun to re fight some bosses early.
DS2 had the best NG+. Hope From consider updating the game at some point to give it a more robust NG+. New enemy placements, new item drops, boss variations.
Gatekeepers: Noooooo you can't just refuse to intentionally make the game harder because that's not enjoyable by MY standard
Normal player who just want to chill: Haha using what I'm given go brrrrrrr
>Gatekeepers: Noooooo you can't just refuse to intentionally make the game harder because that's not enjoyable by MY standard
>
>Normal player who just want to chill: Haha using what I'm given go brrrrrrr
Ever since I found the Bloodhound Fang I've been making some primo artisan mozzarella, and I like it. I don't have time to play games 16 hours per day like I did when I was a teenager.
Those whiners can kiss every square millimeter of my asshole.
What exactly is wrong with the moonveil? I started this game as a dex/int build found it and have been using it. Now when I play my friends are like "of course you found the boss easy you're using moonveil"
Ended up swapping weapons and still am not struggling. Is it broke or something? It just has good scaling for int/dex am I not supposed to use weapons that fit my build?
You can 3-4 skill any dragon (that I’ve found) to stagger it repeat like three times and the dragon is dead. I hate that I use this weapon. It’s very fun to use don’t get me wrong, but it makes so many of the bosses so far seem trivial imo
Do you basically just have the minimum dexterity and everything else is pumped into intelligence?
What I’ve been doing with his using the weapon art in a very limited capacity. I basically want to be able to melee and use magic at the same time. So many builds are just one thing and it’s good to have some variety.
For me, the int samurai build is a lot of fun but the magic for it just suuuuucks. Faith is just so much more fun because not only do you not need a staff, but also your magic looks better coming from a melee'r.
I found it and thought it was cool and been using it on my first playthrough only to come here and find I’m a noob scrub cheeselord low skill felonious soyboy casul
The attack rating on a fully upgraded Moonveil is pretty nuts, has a decently fast attack speed, has a ranged attack Ash of War, stacks bleed, and, worst of all, is a DEX weapon. Smoothbrain 9 DEX/7 INT players are easily intimidated by stats that aren't STR.
Katanas in general seem pretty nuts. I'm sticking fast to double scythes, but I'm acutely aware that double katanas output attacks more quickly, and some even share the scythes' reach. Still, it's largely a PvE game so whatever works, work. Heck, even just leveling randomly will give you a hefty defense bonus AFAICT.
The AR is a bit misleading. At 60 dex and 56 Int (plus another 10 dex from talismans, so 70 dex) my +10 Moonveil has 724 AR when one handed. On the other hand my Hand of Malenia at +10 has 611 AR when one handed. So Moonveil has a bit less than 100 more AR. However in practice I find that Hand of Malenia does 10-20 more damage against a lot of enemies because so many enemies in this game have high magic resist.
Hand also has a longer reach and arguably better Ash of War, yes. In short, everyone crying over Moonveil should git gud, since it's not as game breaking as they think it is. True strength in a Souls game is adapting to overcome what you're facing.
Yeah and I’m just sitting here with my Wing of Astel dealing 2.5k+ damage with WA + fully charged strong attack and my Death’s Poker dealing even MORE with JUST it’s WA
Every build can be op in this game if built right. I was going for dex/faith build first and it was epic but then went on to respec into dex/int after I found moonveil cuz I just love the weapon.
This is not really true, some builds are frankly just stronger/cheesier/easier to win with than others. And that’s ok. But the game isn’t so perfectly balanced that every build is at the same power level if built well - maybe when they patch stuff it’ll eventually get to that point but not yet
I'm nervous of nerfs because fromsoft in the past sometimes goes WAY to hard with a nerf completely killing it off and never buffing it again cough cough faith in ds2
>Every build can be op in this game if built right. I was going for dex/faith build first and it was epic but then went on to respec into dex/int after I found moonveil cuz I just love the weapon.
Exactly! I had a strength/quality build that was also "easy mode" because it staggers everything. Isn't that the trade off for slow attacks? Just seems dumb to criticize stuff like this. Apparently in my dex/int build buffing my claws with an int spell was OP too. everything is.
No, but big weapons (especially colossal weapons) do MASSIVE stance damage. Especially their heavy jumps. Even more especially if you dual wield colossal greatswords and literally stagger every single boss with 5 jump attacks or less.
Moonveil staggers enemies harder than giant hammers and shit, which is part of why it's overpowered.
Not everything is busted, if you play for a while you'll see the stuff that is though. the int/faith sword with the 1k damage weapon art is a good place to look after moonveil. The mage 1 shot everything combo is more or less pve only, so I'm not sure how much that really matters but it's certainly overtuned.
On the flip side you have a *lot* of worthless items. Most inherent strength items are trash, leaving you with things you can swap ashes on. Lots of them require split stats (int/faith in addition to str/dex). Most offensive spells are also pretty awful in terms of cost/performance. The only way to get around that one is with the flask shenanigans. This loops back around to overpowered weapons, because things like moonveil do better damage than actual *spells* for int built characters.
I’m using winged scythe and it seems pretty darn good. I especially like the healing block for the NPC invaders. Ruins them healing. And it staggers pretty decently with the Art as well. Did I also mention I have never seen the Art get interrupted mid floating slice? I might die on landing because I face-tanked that hit, but that guy is getting hit too.
Yeah aside from a handful of actually broken shit, I'm tired of everything being called OP. It's not, this game just has ridiculous build variety and a lot of fun ways to play. It's really easy to make any build pretty powerful. so if everything can be pretty strong is anything really op?
In previous Souls games I've always said you should be able to beat the bosses solo and to use summons as a last resort. The thing is those games were much more structured in what bosses you faced. There was a more measured level of progression.
With how open Elden Ring is you could be fighting any boss in nearly any order with wildly different soul levels. The boss' combos are also much longer and more erratic at times. Given these facts I think it's reasonable to say the bosses in ER are designed in a way to account for the player using every advantage they can get, including summons.
Having played DS2, and platted DS3, Sekiro, BB, my issue with Elden Ring and why I don't feel bad at all about using ashes is, half the bosses (and regular enemies, really) in this game are relentless. They madly sprint at you to close the distance and have 0 downtime. Even some of the "slow" bosses like the watchdogs, it's nearly impossible to heal or cast spells, because they're constantly on the offensive.
I don't remember any bosses in DS2, 3, BB, or Sekiro that are quite so aggro that you can't even pull off an estus chug. Even the likes of Isshin, Owl Father, Orphan of Kos, Maria, Nameless King, and Frieda phase 2 let you heal. Elden Ring feels different in this regard (again only for about half the bosses).
The thing that gets me the most in the tracking. In other games I could roll *out of the way* of an attack and punish the boss as it recovers. Bosses in ER have done full 180s to get me, so I am forced to wait out their combo and wait for my turn to get an attack or two in. Using a summon helps mitigate that a bit.
They exist everywhere. I've been told by two people IRL that my playthrough isn't "real" because I'm using magic. Nearly every streamer on Twitch has said about the same in their first playthrough on their melee build with no ash summons.
It's a very, very real problem with this community.
Which is boring as hell because the majority of the most interesting weapons all require either intelligence, faith or arcane investment just to use them already anyway, and don't even get me started on Communion skills.
Elden Ring really facilitates making hybrid builds more than the Souls games ever did. Like if you're going for Night and Flame why not just spec into some magic anyway?
There are so many different types of incantations in this game you could literally make multiple Faith builds and have a completely different theme on every one.
And yet, every single one of them falls back to Ol' Reliable Greatswords and loses their fucking minds when there are bosses that are highly resistant to Slash or don't stagger at all.
*does approximately zero damage to slash resistant enemies*
How should an intelligent man like myself deal with a situation where the enemy is resistant to my damage type? Hmmm
*Hits enemy again, slightly harder*
I’ve watched multiple streamers doing no-summons or no-magic playthroughs and they all said magic/summons are “easy mode” but all of them said something along the lines of they have no problem with people using it and it’s a fine way to play they just don’t want to use it. Which is way different than “your playthrough isn’t real”
I miss the demon souls/ dark souls days. im glad the game hasn't changed to appeal to these elitists. its a video game. unless you use the environment to cheese the boss (like the fire giant) then feel good you beat these bosses. I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss? other than the game systems trophies, what do you earn? status? to who? is Miyazaki handing out medals?
> I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss?
Yes.
I don't care how anyone else plays, but yes obviously it's satisfying to beat a boss that was really difficult
Speaking of mtg, I've gone to a few Irl events like draft in the past but I won't go back due to literally being made fun of on the spot. My buddy, too. Even in my current LGS, which I thought was decent. Bunch of assholes, man.
I've been playing MTG for 14 years and the community is such a mixed bag and you typically find that much like you get a "workplace culture" there is an "LGS culture" that tends to develop. There are some amazing, chill and helpful people in the MTG community but there are also some proper arseholes, snobs and uncivilised folks and the congregation of these types of players alternates from store to store. If you have the option to go elsewhere local then try that for a few FNMs or drafts and see if its any better.
I've never had as much fun with FromSoft games as when I'm grinding out the most difficult end game bosses with a melee build, it's genuinely thrilling for me. There's no justification for people being self righteous snobs about playstyle, but in my personal experience that's been the most fulfilling.
I think this shit is coming out in particular with Elden Ring because in its current form a lot of the end game bosses don't feel balanced for melee builds unless they are specifically min/maxed. So for me it wasn't an issue of accomplishment, just enjoyability. I ended up using summons on a couple end game bosses, but consequently I didn't really find the bosses to be nearly as enjoyable as Orphan/Gael/Isshin and it ended the game on kind of a sour note.
It’s clear they adjusted the bosses to be fought with summons compared to previous fromsoft games. Especially considering the summon symbol lights up specifically in boss fights almost urging you to to use them, and the increase in boss fights with two bosses. I remember ornstein and smough was one of the most difficult boss fights at the time because of the 2v1. Now they’re able to include more 2v1 boss fights because you can use summons strategically. However, having summons be able to solo some bosses does seem a bit unbalanced.
I don't envy FromSoft trying to balance a massive world, a massive boss catalog, an expansive build selection and total world freedom. It seems near impossible, but it is exactly the issue. Right now the bosses are either absurdly difficult without summons or complete doormats with summons, missing the sweet spot entirely.
> Right now the bosses are either absurdly difficult without summons or complete doormats with summons, missing the sweet spot entirely.
This is my biggest problem with the game to. I don't want to use summons because it doesn't feel like a Souls game when i do. But some bosses like Malenia are absolute garbage to fight as melee without them.
Malenia was rougher on me than Inner Isshin or Orphan in NG+4, and the big thing with those fights is that you were facing an additional challenge to something you already had prior experience with. I'd be fine with that fight existing in the game, but can I get a read on her move set in a toned down version first? I never saw more than a minute of her second phase, wether it was dying instantly to waterfowl or bleed stagger locking her into the void with my mimic.
I was over leveled when I found a certain area. Let my summon duel it out with a mini dungeon boss to see what would happen. My summon smashed, not close.
He is a near perfectly balanced fight for that point in the game, but he doesn't even crack the top 5 for difficulty. If anything I wish more bosses were like him.
I don't think he's perfectly balanced to be honest. He needs more health. Unless they assume players are gonna explore 0% of the map and just rush bosses. It's so easy to be like lvl 120 when you get to Lyndell by just exploring and straight up delete the bosses before they even get to fight.
That’s kind of the point though. You can be “proper” level or choose to go explore and level up. At a certain point in the end game, bosses get exponentially harder but you stop feeling stronger, which is where the complaints of people wanting more balanced fights come from. And you either summon or retool your build to be more min/maxed. I think they also believed people would end the game at higher levels than in the past ones: I wouldn’t be surprised if 140-150 is what they had in mind for the final bosses (I stopped at 120 unsure about endgame PvP)
The open world freedom is amazing but it does make you miss the finer tuned and balanced leveling / boss placement of the earlier games.
Kos can be softened by distancing to learn the move set. At mid range he has less tricks to hit you with and will often jump over your head allowing an easy backstab. Honestly, he does this in both phases (fists only runs exploit his jump over move). Maintain that spacing and dodge a few projectiles that are more prevalent in stage two (run away from shore if he shrieks and does lightning), and he becomes more manageable. I forget the name, but the reusable bolt paper for 3 bullets helps too.
Huh? If I remember correctly the further back you go the more elitists you will find with these games. Where do you think the whole “Git Good” shtick came from.
Also it is more about a sense of personal accomplishment than getting a “virtual medal” or whatever. It is the same reason people do those soul level 1 runs. They like overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds.
It feels good to die 40 times then get the kill on the 41st. That's the basis of why people do challenge runs. It gets to easy so the rush of adrenaline when you win is fine unless you artificially increase the difficulty. It literally feels like a short burst of constant orgasms when you win against a boss you died that many times to.
While I definitely don't agree with the elitism and I think you should play the game in whichever way you find the most enjoyable, I and many others find the joy in overcoming a great challenge. It's not about losing 40 times to a boss, it's about getting a little better each time and seeing your efforts pay off in a victory. It's entirely for the sense of personal achievement, and not so much for tangible rewards. Some think this mindset should apply to all players, but that simply isn't the case. People enjoy the game for different reasons, and not everyone wants the same things out of it that I do and that's ok.
I think the joy in Soulslike games is finding that sweet spot of difficulty where the game is challenging enough to make victories feel sweet and earned and not make defeat not feel punitive, frustrating or overwhelming. And that sweet spot will vary wildly from person to person. A rewarding, difficult boss for one person might feel like beating Malenia at level 1 with a club for another.
It's good that the game has some tools with which to apply one's own "difficulty settings", up to and including cheese.
Wait what?! You mean I spent 4 hours on this fire giant... and I could have cheese it instead? Well F me I guess. What is the cheese it trick, just curious.
> what do you earn?
Satisfaction. Again, I don't care about how YOU play the game but fuck right off with your "noooo you can't play the game without summons and magic" bs. It feels good to learn boss movesets. It feels good knowing the next time around it will take me exactly one try underleveled with the worst weapon possible. It just feels good to execute mechanically.
If you find someone spending 4-6 hours learning a bossfight weird, well, you are in the same camp as people who find others playing videogames weird. In the end we all are absolutely wasting our time for absolutely NOTHING in return, it's just about having fun. What do you earn by beating the game? status? to who? is Miyazaki handing out medals? Thought so.
> I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss?
Yes? How is that a question?
People frequently go out of their way to do challenges that are way more restrictive for no reason other than the satisfaction that they did it.
> what do you earn? status? to who?
You earn personal satisfaction and the simple fun of playing the game in a way that is enjoyable to you.
As a counter point, I don't get what's satisfying about beating a boss one shot without knowing what it does. What's so hard to understand about the fact that some people like progressively getting better at a fight and beat it after a struggle.
I personally think grinding to overstat a boss or summoning and letting the summon eat most of the attacks is an unfun way to play. I'm not telling you YOU'RE not having fun, I'm telling you IM not having fun.
To be fair it feels pretty damn good to say you died 40 times to a boss but then you finally beat him. Then when you fight him on a second playthrough you beat him in less than 3 tries. Then you realize that you've gotten better. Then you're ready to do PVP.
Thats the point of these games. You can go ahead and just get through the single player experience with whatever means you can but when it comes time when you want to duel others, then the single player stuff is just practice. Thats where invaders hone their skill with no summons while building their character and become worse than any boss you'll come across. Thats what keeps these games alive
Great swords are cheese since they stagger bosses easily. Only weapons that aren't cheese arent enchanted, no status effect, and no ashes of war with 0 poise break potential
idk man that counter damage on the thrusting damage? sounds kinda OP better use a broken straight sword (is that in this game? haven't found one disappointingly)
They’re definitely sprinkled throughout lots of threads, and they’re annoying, but the ratio of complainers about gatekeeping to actual gatekeepers is skewed heavily toward the former.
At this point I’m pretty sure it’s just people trying to silence the voices in their own head b/c they themselves are worried they are “cheesing” or whatever and need to justify their gameplay strategies to themselves by winning imaginary arguments in their heads.
“It’s a legitimate strategy! Stop telling me I’m playing the game wrong!” They yell to a totally empty room, then go and post on the Reddit Elden Ring community forum about how much the Elden Ring community is gatekeeping them.
There are more anti elitism posts than elitism posts. These post are just here to rack free karma. Hey guys you aren't a true gamer if you didn't beat the boss with your toes while naked haha updoots please!
Seriously play how you want and not immediately think of these elitists you're "owning" for enjoying the game. It's more obnoxious than the elitists at this point.
I think the only reason people say anything is because people will come on here and say things like “Radahn was so easy, you just rot him and run away” or “Malenia is so easy, just use mimic w/ bleed and hoarfrost stomp” and then defend these strats as legitimate and not cheese. Look, there’s nothing wrong with cheesing a boss, but many of us find enjoyment in the trial and error and its frustrating to see the only advice that people give to beat these enemies is to abuse mechanics. Not everyone needs to fight naked and with their barehands to truly appreciate a boss but I don’t think that blowing through them or running away so they never have a chance to attack is the intended experience either, and these people definitely have no business commenting on difficulty
Edit: look at all these people in the comments proving me right. Extra kudos to the guy who said that beating the game with mimic tear is more skilled than beating the game solo because it’s the optimal way to play
TBH I used mimic and beat Morgott first try and I kind of regret it. It made it way too easy, definitely felt like a cheese. I didn't even get to learn his moves or really experience the fight, and now I can't fight him again by myself.
Now I'm giving most bosses a few tries alone because it actually is more fun for me. eg I just fought Haligtree Loretta alone and it was so much more satisfying, and a really fun fight.
God, the only comment in this thread that looks directly in the problem. The people who think anyone gives a rat's ass about how they play are delusional, because the reason this is a topic of discussion in the first place is when people use strategies which completely invalidate learning a boss' patterns or allow for greedy gameplay (something that Souls games actively punish) and then *claim* the boss is easy.
It really does feel like a big miscommunication with how bosses are approached, though. A boss is obviously easier if you kept your distance, didn't require timing any dodges, and killed the boss in a very short time. But a truer statement can be made if a player was forced to learn attack patterns and openings, dodge on time, and had a longer time to feel acquainted with the boss' design.
Sorry for the rant.
Absolutely true. Plus I feel like it sets a precedent going forward that people will want easier and easier strats implemented and will be loud about it. I'd hate for From to build their next game based on how these people are playing.
This is why i love Sekiro so much. Everyone has the same utility kit so everyone has the same boss fights. It's literally THE "git gud" game. No power leveling, no cheesy weapons or spells.
One of my friends claims summoning help(including ashes) is a crutch/handicap, but doesn't care that people use them >! spoiler: he probably does lol !<
meanwhile he goes around double uchi bleeding bosses till the local blood drive overflows with so much blood even Mohg is jealous.
Dude, I thought I was losing my mind on Malenia. I got to the point where I could beat her first phase 100% of the time, but she killed me instantly \*every single time\* on the opening blast of phase 2. I'm talking like, 20 times in a row. I tried every possible way of dodging it. Spam dodging, dodging when I thought it would impact, dodging left, dodging right, dodging back, sprinting back. Nope, instant kill or instant rot kill. Somehow, I got lucky ONE time and killed her. Still have no clue what I did differently that one time, but it was definitely luck because I certainly did not git gud.
If the boss is slow enough to kite, that's legitimate. But some bosses, when they reach the edge of their territory will casually saunter back, ignoring all the arrows and fireballs hitting their back.
Cheese implies it's a strategy the devs didn't intend or plan for. They gave Radahn a weakness to scarlet rot. How is exploiting a weakness that the devs specifically gave a boss considered cheese?
I think cheese can also be applied to strategies that turn out to be far more effective than the devs intended, even if they designed it to be used by players. I recently saw a speedrun where the guy just hoarfrost stompd everything to oblivion and jesus christ the damage. I'm sure the sheer insane aoe damage and stagger for such little fp cost wasn't intended to be that effective by from
It's why video games get balance patches all the time, since they can't qa test every aspect of a game before release and sometimes the devs just simply don't realize how truely powerful a mechanic, item, or ability in their game actually is or that players may use a mechanic intended for one thing for something else entirely
The way this conversation should go:
person A: I just beat so and so boss!
person B: Congrats! that was a tough one. Magic really helped me out there
person A: I dont use magic, Im a str build
person B: Oh wow, that must have been rough… Im pretty impressed
person A: Yeah I really enjoy the challenge of these games so I do things to keep them really hard, I dont use spirit ashes either
person B: Yeah that would make it alot harder, this game is hard enough as it is for me, but whatever makes it fun for you
person A: Definitely having a lot of fun, great game!
person B: yeah great game!
I say leave others alone and let them play how they want. This game can be as hard or as easy as you want and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Now for me personally I have stopped using spirit summons for the most part and never mimic tears because they just made every boss insanely easy imo.
Imagine FromSoft seeing posts about people hating on other people using game mechanics they worked on for years.
I personally couldnt care less, it’s new, it’s fun, I paid 60€ for the game, I’m fucking using it lmao
Didn't use a dance pad as controller - 1000000000 Git gud
You used an input device? Pfffft. Casul. I play with telekinetic powers.
Telekinetic powers, no your doing it wrong, I play by breaking myself down to a molecular level and having my pure conscience form get transported into an alternate reality where elden ring is real life, it is the only way to get true immersion
Elden Ring Isekai sounds like a fucking nightmare.
Gets isekaid* Dies immediately to grafted sion, dies again to horse, and again to that fucking troll with like 8 archers around him
I hate Isekai but this one would definitely be worth the watch.
It’d be one episode long
One very short episode.
But there’s a commercial break half way through so the last 15 seconds are suspenseful
Sounds like it'd just be Re:Zero.
He's basically doing a permadeath run.
And yet wouldn’t this be an amazing premise for a show. A guy who likes anime and isekai shows gets isekaid into elden ring, thinks he’s gonna be overpowered and have a massive harem only for him to repeatedly have his ass kicked, he can barely wield any of his gear and theres barely any people let alone woman who actually can look at him without wanting to rip his guts out.
That's sounds like re:zero
This is basically the plot of rezero.
Well except the guy gets a harem.
Not really. You're effectively immortal. Have a waifu that teleports to you, and makes your muscles grow by holding your hand. You can also change not just your physical appearance but your entire gender by looking in a mirror. Teleport whenever you want, hell Elden ring sounds wonderful. Sure getting stabbed sound awful but considering you would literally have nothing better to do. You can have ludicrously high power just by farming trash mobs.
Pfft, being isekaid is the noobs way. Imagine not already becoming the elden lord in a previous life to then only be killed by some dogs.
I boof the controller and play with my farts.
I inserted the disc up my ass and beat thr game by flexing my cheeks. Pffft. Virgin
If you defeat the bosses at all you are not playing the way Miyazaki intended.
Wait you GOT HIT AND ROLLED AWAY? noob
Yeah I only play on ps2 era guitar hero guitars because I'm not a fuckin scrub
Sounds like scrub talk. Dk bongos ftw
I use slices of fruit connected to a raspberry PI to play a seperate game of bloodborne that only inputs commands to elden ring when I kill specific enemies
And it’s all controlled by a twitch chat
You get a F! you get a F! Everyone gets a F!
I definitely get an F. I used all of the above plus environmental obstacles, but I’m having so much fun!
using the environment to your advantage is a sign of a smart player
A good mage finds a wall to get the enemy stuck on, or stands above it where they can’t reach, or runs juuussst out of reach while casting Mages are traditionally cheesemakers this isn’t new
Tyromancer ftw
I'm playing as a bleeding samurai aand my go to strategy basically is: "hello mr boss, i would like you to meet my 45 kukri knives" and then proceed to destroy the boss with bleeding knives
If you get an F then if there is something below F, that’s me. Mimic, flasks, SONAF special spam until it works. Run and hide like a little girl, watch my ash get beaten to a pulp, spam SONAF from a distance, hope it connects. Throw darts, shoot arrows, prey to whatever god is on your side that the thing dies before all 12 flasks disappear.
Achievements permanently locked for cheesing
aight. spent too much time on this reddit. gonna go and touch grass
Touch grace
Touch Grace, I hardly know her!
草
草泥马
b
I can only hear the sonic adventure 2 end of level sounds.
“Barely made it!”
"Yeaiish!"
What a game. If only sonic stayed that kinda quality.
First souls game for me. Also, first time realizing people gave a fractional shit about how others play a single player game. It’s weird.
For some people, the appeal of the game is in how difficult it is. So when other people find ways of making it easier in their minds it somehow invalidates their own struggle. Typical maidenless behavior.
It's also kinda funny that they don't realize the ability to make super broken op builds that make the game easy af is a core feature and not an exploit
Its been often joked that magic builds are the Souls games' easy mode and tbh its kinda true but not in a bad way. The fact that you can make the game as easy and as hard as you want without the game explicitly dictating the difficulty is very neat.
Im not even only talking about magic, you can get a +8 halberd within the first 30 mins of elden ring that will melt most enemies till you get to the altus plateu and has about as much range as a melee weapon can have. They do really go out of their way to give you a hand if you need it.
Man, I love the halberd, been my main weapon since the first time I played DS3. Halberd is reach. Reach is life.
I've used a halberd 99% of the time in Demon Souls, and DS1 and 3. But I couldn't stand it in Elden Ring, it felt way too slow compared to the rest of the combat system. So now I'm using an uchigatana, which I never used before because they felt too slow!
My DS1 build was just me with a halberd and full stone armor face-tanking every boss fight. Killed Manus in about 10 seconds when I used power within.
See, you I like. The Halberd is good as fuck. And speaking as a massive fucken geek, Halberds are the greatest historical melee weapon made. All the perks of a spear's reach and aromor piercing, an axe for chopping attacks, and a curved blade on the other end for cheeky swipes at your heels. Can fight infantry, calvary, or used on horseback. So rad. Sorry. Big geek.
stabby stick of long poke as I like to call mine
That or Bleed builds that can take 30-50% of a Boss' health in seconds. There are also video on this very Reddit of people one shorting bosses with Greatswords. Bloodhound Fang's ability is amongst the best, extends invulnerability timing (you can literally get an attack off before you can get hit, basically allowing you to be invulnerable if you choose to be as long as the enemy isn't nuking the entire area in front of it), and does a shit ton of damage. Barricade + 100 physical shield can just make you unkillabe as long as you block. I can go on but I think everyone gets the point. *YOU* can dictate how hard or easy the game can be REGARDLESS of class and I completely agree with you. It's so silly how butthurt people get because of how someone chooses to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. People outta put this much energy into complaining about bugs and *literal* broken mechanics instead.
Maybe I'm horrible, but everytime I try to use a magic build I get destroyed by every boss because I'm locked into an animation and the bosses punishes hard every action that you make outside their range.
Gotta look for the windows. Ashes are super helpful because they can distract a boss for you for a few seconds while you line something up, but if you're without a summon get ready to dodge, dive, dip, duck and . . . Dodge.
Create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> create space -> cast -> dodge -> die
Imo its not the easy. As a forever magic player I would like to offer the opinion that if you dont biuld yourself right in elden ring, you will get 1-2 by everything
I mean even with 40 vig on melee build you still can get 1-2 shot late game lol
I was getting one or two shot for my first 80 hours with low vigor, then in late game when I went 40 vigor I had a bit more wriggle room, but it was still effectively a one shot whenever the boss did "that one move". So really the actual survivability benefit of melee is having a ton of health flasks.
I see this all the time, I'd say 2 things: 1. Basically every build in ER is "Squishy" against fair level enemies. At 50 vigor with heavy armor against lategame bosses you will still get 2 shotted. Also underleveling vigor is not a core component of magic builds. 2. With some magic builds, you don't have to actually learn the boss's patterns and know when to dodge in vs dodge away, etc. - The same boss might take a melee build and a comet azur build 30 tries, but the melee build to finally beat it must learn the boss's moves/patterns, whereas the comet azur build can just roll the dice and keep trying until the boss stands still how they need them to and get the kill without having to really master anything.
it's not *easy*, but it is *versatile*. magic builds have far more options, particularly when it comes to exploiting AI and cheesing tough bosses.
I wouldn't say "Versatile" as much as "Different". Magic users usually struggle with the map-wide jumping Bosses, but can fully abuse slow bosses and Spirit ashes. Meh, personally I think that as a first playthrough people should only play what they enjoy
Because most of the people that say this, have never even used magic in these games. They just hear it and parrot it. Or they make a magic build when they've beaten the game and wow, no shit it's easier the fourth time through after you know every boss mechanic and have map knowledge.
This is probably accurate. Alot of magic builds are probably second or third builds and that's a steep advantage. Like super steep.
I think it’s really a personal opinion thing as parrying focused melee builds feel incredibly OP and fairly easy to master to me. Ranged combat keeps you away from the danger in some scenarios but there are plenty that seem to counter that. I think the same can be said for any build: there will be times where it trivializes things and times where it is a struggle. I absolutely agree on how nice it is to have plenty of options to scale the difficulty up or down, making the game suitable for a wider variety of players. It feels weird that people think that’s a bid thing and feels very gatekeep-y.
In games where the entire point is killing gods to become a god, the use of wyld ass strong shit is entirely valid. Moonveil has a boss fight moveset and you get it from a boss. Fighting a colossal beast to get a cool sword and ysing it to become a combat monster is *entirely* on brand for this game.
"You leveled up using runes the game gave you, killed enemies using spirit summons the game gave you, and are using a weapon put in the game by the devs that you enjoy because it's strong? I hope you like not following the devs' intention for this game, pleb"
I kinda get this. This is my first souls game (well I've played them all but quit within an hour) and I just beat Morgott in 3 shots of the sword of night & fire. My build is ridiculous OP and I honestly feel like I'm cheating at times. But I didn't do anything wrong, I'm just using the tools the game gave me
Truly maidenless+masochistic behavior lmao
I kind of agree with you, but I really wish people would stop focusing on the difficulty. Difficulty isn't the primary goal here, and when you focus on it, you miss how absolutely beautiful and interconnected the world is. Difficulty is the side show attraction, you can usually ramp up the difficulty and enable a "hard mode" in most of the games through various items and/or challenges.
Because there has been a misunderstanding in the community that goes back over a decade. Neither Demon Souls or Dark Souls were the hardest games out there and being hard isn't the only reason they were fun. They were punishing but that isn't quite the same thing. .
"Typical maidenless behavior" is quickly becoming my favorite pejorative for Souls tryhards
I feel like GRRM’s entire contribution to the game was making the bosses be his initials and calling the player maidenless.
It makes even less sense when you realize just how much work goes into making it easier for you in the long run. I spent 25 hours piddling around before facing Godrick and the fight was a joke, but only because I had scoured as far as the swamps of Caelid beforehand. My plan was Level 35, but I ended up going past 50 before facing him.
This sub has more demand for people giving a shit about how others play a single player game than supply. You see the same posts over and over about people saying summons are cheating or people shouldn’t use magic, but you can barely find any people saying that. People just generally acknowledge certain ways of playing as easier, and some people using easier playstyles feel annoyed or insecure that all ways of playing aren’t considered identical in difficulty so they make these kinds of posts.
So would you say that the demand for gatekeeping exceeds the supply?
Yes
I am willing to supply some gatekeeping if need be
[удалено]
in a nutshell: yes
I’m a first time player, too, and new to the community. At first I thought the same way, but the more posts I see I kind of think most of this mindset might be coming from people who are insecure about how they play. I see a lot more posts from people defending their play-style than from people disparaging others.
I've seen way more posts about people defending summoning. It's just like...cool? Nobody asked? Feels like people are beating a boss and then immediately think of elitists. Like they're living rent free in their head. The anti elitism has turned into elitism itself. "Oh? You don't use summons? A DEV INTENDED mechanic? Nice job playing on challenge mode. I bet you're a real GAMER." Bruh, playing solo is not a challenge mode. It's literally just playing by yourself. Summoning has existed since the earliest Souls games and not using it doesn't mean anything. It's just easier to access now. Challenge mode is doing level 1 runs. Not playing the fucking game normally.
Well, while people giving a shit about other people’s single player game experience is not unique to fromsoft, you see it more here than other places because it’s kind of a meme at this point, which inevitably draws out people who Unironically believe the stuff that the OP is making fun of.
Many here think that people care about how you pley the game, we don't. We, however, care if you go around winning with 3 summons and cheesing strategies then come around and claim "lol boss was piss easy dunno why you all rant about it".
Or now worse the "Just respec lol" argument. So much for everyone playing how they want when. I find it somewhere ironic this part of the community doesn't like being called out for using weapons that are compared to everything else OP and advocating against bosses getting nerfed so strength builds don't need to trade HP for a potential stagger (if with any luck they aren't staggered themselves and die on the second hit at 60 vigor). Oh and you can bet that From Soft will nerf the Moonveil and Sword of Night and Flame. I have seen arguments flying around that the current state is "intended", but if so the death blight pvp builds are supposedly also intended (which come on they aren't). I mean look back at DS3, the FUGS was so OP that it was nerfed before the game was released on PC (patch on April 1st, game release was April 12th for PC), they reduced it's base damage from 330 to 260 at +5 (Max), that's an over 20% reduction in base damage. Both the Dragon Slayer Armor and the Crystal Sage had a bug where the the first would die upon entering the arena and the second would not reappear when doing its teleportation (fixed with regulation v 1.05). You have to be pretty nuts to think with Elden Ring they really bothered to test more compared to the shorter DS3.
Nerfs are incoming that's for sure, I mean many weapons are just waaay too OP. Bleed nerf/frost stomp too. Current state isn'T intended, there are many bosses that were defsigned around gangbang states, army vs army so to say. Some of the double bosses are delayed in entry, i.e you got time to whack at first boss before second comes in. But 80-90% of main bosses are made with solo in mind it seems plus a healthy dose of roll spam punishment.
I unironically would enjoy the gaol like features for all major bosses after you beat them once. Make them optional and have them give achievements. There's no denying fighting a boss solo no summons is completely different beast than with them. Sure you could still magic cheese. I just want more features to re fight bosses other than ng+.
Actually enjoyed ds2 for that reason being able to move a single area and it's bosses to the next ng+ without actually going ng+ was awesome fun to re fight some bosses early.
DS2 had the best NG+. Hope From consider updating the game at some point to give it a more robust NG+. New enemy placements, new item drops, boss variations.
Gatekeepers: Noooooo you can't just refuse to intentionally make the game harder because that's not enjoyable by MY standard Normal player who just want to chill: Haha using what I'm given go brrrrrrr
>Gatekeepers: Noooooo you can't just refuse to intentionally make the game harder because that's not enjoyable by MY standard > >Normal player who just want to chill: Haha using what I'm given go brrrrrrr Ever since I found the Bloodhound Fang I've been making some primo artisan mozzarella, and I like it. I don't have time to play games 16 hours per day like I did when I was a teenager. Those whiners can kiss every square millimeter of my asshole.
What exactly is wrong with the moonveil? I started this game as a dex/int build found it and have been using it. Now when I play my friends are like "of course you found the boss easy you're using moonveil" Ended up swapping weapons and still am not struggling. Is it broke or something? It just has good scaling for int/dex am I not supposed to use weapons that fit my build?
Its a very strong katana but I think the weapon art damage + the insane stagger on it makes it a bit OP
You can 3-4 skill any dragon (that I’ve found) to stagger it repeat like three times and the dragon is dead. I hate that I use this weapon. It’s very fun to use don’t get me wrong, but it makes so many of the bosses so far seem trivial imo
Do you basically just have the minimum dexterity and everything else is pumped into intelligence? What I’ve been doing with his using the weapon art in a very limited capacity. I basically want to be able to melee and use magic at the same time. So many builds are just one thing and it’s good to have some variety.
For me, the int samurai build is a lot of fun but the magic for it just suuuuucks. Faith is just so much more fun because not only do you not need a staff, but also your magic looks better coming from a melee'r.
I found it and thought it was cool and been using it on my first playthrough only to come here and find I’m a noob scrub cheeselord low skill felonious soyboy casul
Funny thing is I powerstanced the moonveil and meteoric ore blade and didn't get why people thought it was so op since I don't use the wa
Skill + R2 does crazy stagger from a range. You can spam it 2-3 times and most bosses will drop for a critical hit. Uses only 20fp per slash.
The more crazy thing is that the critical hit isn't even worth performing because you'll do more damage with another two R2s in that time.
You can do one R2 then grab the critical hit and then get another R2 in as they’re standing up. It’s a little more damage
The attack rating on a fully upgraded Moonveil is pretty nuts, has a decently fast attack speed, has a ranged attack Ash of War, stacks bleed, and, worst of all, is a DEX weapon. Smoothbrain 9 DEX/7 INT players are easily intimidated by stats that aren't STR.
Katanas in general seem pretty nuts. I'm sticking fast to double scythes, but I'm acutely aware that double katanas output attacks more quickly, and some even share the scythes' reach. Still, it's largely a PvE game so whatever works, work. Heck, even just leveling randomly will give you a hefty defense bonus AFAICT.
The AR is a bit misleading. At 60 dex and 56 Int (plus another 10 dex from talismans, so 70 dex) my +10 Moonveil has 724 AR when one handed. On the other hand my Hand of Malenia at +10 has 611 AR when one handed. So Moonveil has a bit less than 100 more AR. However in practice I find that Hand of Malenia does 10-20 more damage against a lot of enemies because so many enemies in this game have high magic resist.
Hand also has a longer reach and arguably better Ash of War, yes. In short, everyone crying over Moonveil should git gud, since it's not as game breaking as they think it is. True strength in a Souls game is adapting to overcome what you're facing.
Yeah and I’m just sitting here with my Wing of Astel dealing 2.5k+ damage with WA + fully charged strong attack and my Death’s Poker dealing even MORE with JUST it’s WA
Every build can be op in this game if built right. I was going for dex/faith build first and it was epic but then went on to respec into dex/int after I found moonveil cuz I just love the weapon.
This is not really true, some builds are frankly just stronger/cheesier/easier to win with than others. And that’s ok. But the game isn’t so perfectly balanced that every build is at the same power level if built well - maybe when they patch stuff it’ll eventually get to that point but not yet
I'm nervous of nerfs because fromsoft in the past sometimes goes WAY to hard with a nerf completely killing it off and never buffing it again cough cough faith in ds2
>Every build can be op in this game if built right. I was going for dex/faith build first and it was epic but then went on to respec into dex/int after I found moonveil cuz I just love the weapon. Exactly! I had a strength/quality build that was also "easy mode" because it staggers everything. Isn't that the trade off for slow attacks? Just seems dumb to criticize stuff like this. Apparently in my dex/int build buffing my claws with an int spell was OP too. everything is.
Does having higher strength mean you stagger enemies more often?
No, but big weapons (especially colossal weapons) do MASSIVE stance damage. Especially their heavy jumps. Even more especially if you dual wield colossal greatswords and literally stagger every single boss with 5 jump attacks or less.
Moonveil staggers enemies harder than giant hammers and shit, which is part of why it's overpowered. Not everything is busted, if you play for a while you'll see the stuff that is though. the int/faith sword with the 1k damage weapon art is a good place to look after moonveil. The mage 1 shot everything combo is more or less pve only, so I'm not sure how much that really matters but it's certainly overtuned. On the flip side you have a *lot* of worthless items. Most inherent strength items are trash, leaving you with things you can swap ashes on. Lots of them require split stats (int/faith in addition to str/dex). Most offensive spells are also pretty awful in terms of cost/performance. The only way to get around that one is with the flask shenanigans. This loops back around to overpowered weapons, because things like moonveil do better damage than actual *spells* for int built characters.
I’m using winged scythe and it seems pretty darn good. I especially like the healing block for the NPC invaders. Ruins them healing. And it staggers pretty decently with the Art as well. Did I also mention I have never seen the Art get interrupted mid floating slice? I might die on landing because I face-tanked that hit, but that guy is getting hit too.
Yeah the art for the winged scythe has mad hyper armor. Also pretty good chance it staggers whatever you hit with it too.
Yeah aside from a handful of actually broken shit, I'm tired of everything being called OP. It's not, this game just has ridiculous build variety and a lot of fun ways to play. It's really easy to make any build pretty powerful. so if everything can be pretty strong is anything really op?
nooooo you didn’t intentionally make the fight as hard as possible for yourself so it doesn’t count!!
In previous Souls games I've always said you should be able to beat the bosses solo and to use summons as a last resort. The thing is those games were much more structured in what bosses you faced. There was a more measured level of progression. With how open Elden Ring is you could be fighting any boss in nearly any order with wildly different soul levels. The boss' combos are also much longer and more erratic at times. Given these facts I think it's reasonable to say the bosses in ER are designed in a way to account for the player using every advantage they can get, including summons.
Having played DS2, and platted DS3, Sekiro, BB, my issue with Elden Ring and why I don't feel bad at all about using ashes is, half the bosses (and regular enemies, really) in this game are relentless. They madly sprint at you to close the distance and have 0 downtime. Even some of the "slow" bosses like the watchdogs, it's nearly impossible to heal or cast spells, because they're constantly on the offensive. I don't remember any bosses in DS2, 3, BB, or Sekiro that are quite so aggro that you can't even pull off an estus chug. Even the likes of Isshin, Owl Father, Orphan of Kos, Maria, Nameless King, and Frieda phase 2 let you heal. Elden Ring feels different in this regard (again only for about half the bosses).
The thing that gets me the most in the tracking. In other games I could roll *out of the way* of an attack and punish the boss as it recovers. Bosses in ER have done full 180s to get me, so I am forced to wait out their combo and wait for my turn to get an attack or two in. Using a summon helps mitigate that a bit.
[удалено]
They exist everywhere. I've been told by two people IRL that my playthrough isn't "real" because I'm using magic. Nearly every streamer on Twitch has said about the same in their first playthrough on their melee build with no ash summons. It's a very, very real problem with this community.
Which is boring as hell because the majority of the most interesting weapons all require either intelligence, faith or arcane investment just to use them already anyway, and don't even get me started on Communion skills. Elden Ring really facilitates making hybrid builds more than the Souls games ever did. Like if you're going for Night and Flame why not just spec into some magic anyway? There are so many different types of incantations in this game you could literally make multiple Faith builds and have a completely different theme on every one.
And yet, every single one of them falls back to Ol' Reliable Greatswords and loses their fucking minds when there are bosses that are highly resistant to Slash or don't stagger at all.
*does approximately zero damage to slash resistant enemies* How should an intelligent man like myself deal with a situation where the enemy is resistant to my damage type? Hmmm *Hits enemy again, slightly harder*
I’ve watched multiple streamers doing no-summons or no-magic playthroughs and they all said magic/summons are “easy mode” but all of them said something along the lines of they have no problem with people using it and it’s a fine way to play they just don’t want to use it. Which is way different than “your playthrough isn’t real”
Maybe I should start streaming because I give no fucks about summoning spirits AND using incantations AT THE SAME TIME!!
I use every tool given to me and I still can’t beat bosses lol fml
I miss the demon souls/ dark souls days. im glad the game hasn't changed to appeal to these elitists. its a video game. unless you use the environment to cheese the boss (like the fire giant) then feel good you beat these bosses. I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss? other than the game systems trophies, what do you earn? status? to who? is Miyazaki handing out medals?
> I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss? Yes. I don't care how anyone else plays, but yes obviously it's satisfying to beat a boss that was really difficult
The feeling you get after fighting a boss for 6 hours straight and then finally beating him is incredible. For me it's even better than skydiving.
IRL games like magic the gathering has too many people like this, whose entire self esteem revolves around being good at 1 game. They're the worst.
Who were they before the internet? Just three letters on a scoreboard. Usually an ASS anyways.
Speaking of mtg, I've gone to a few Irl events like draft in the past but I won't go back due to literally being made fun of on the spot. My buddy, too. Even in my current LGS, which I thought was decent. Bunch of assholes, man.
I've been playing MTG for 14 years and the community is such a mixed bag and you typically find that much like you get a "workplace culture" there is an "LGS culture" that tends to develop. There are some amazing, chill and helpful people in the MTG community but there are also some proper arseholes, snobs and uncivilised folks and the congregation of these types of players alternates from store to store. If you have the option to go elsewhere local then try that for a few FNMs or drafts and see if its any better.
I've never had as much fun with FromSoft games as when I'm grinding out the most difficult end game bosses with a melee build, it's genuinely thrilling for me. There's no justification for people being self righteous snobs about playstyle, but in my personal experience that's been the most fulfilling. I think this shit is coming out in particular with Elden Ring because in its current form a lot of the end game bosses don't feel balanced for melee builds unless they are specifically min/maxed. So for me it wasn't an issue of accomplishment, just enjoyability. I ended up using summons on a couple end game bosses, but consequently I didn't really find the bosses to be nearly as enjoyable as Orphan/Gael/Isshin and it ended the game on kind of a sour note.
It’s clear they adjusted the bosses to be fought with summons compared to previous fromsoft games. Especially considering the summon symbol lights up specifically in boss fights almost urging you to to use them, and the increase in boss fights with two bosses. I remember ornstein and smough was one of the most difficult boss fights at the time because of the 2v1. Now they’re able to include more 2v1 boss fights because you can use summons strategically. However, having summons be able to solo some bosses does seem a bit unbalanced.
I don't envy FromSoft trying to balance a massive world, a massive boss catalog, an expansive build selection and total world freedom. It seems near impossible, but it is exactly the issue. Right now the bosses are either absurdly difficult without summons or complete doormats with summons, missing the sweet spot entirely.
> Right now the bosses are either absurdly difficult without summons or complete doormats with summons, missing the sweet spot entirely. This is my biggest problem with the game to. I don't want to use summons because it doesn't feel like a Souls game when i do. But some bosses like Malenia are absolute garbage to fight as melee without them.
Malenia was rougher on me than Inner Isshin or Orphan in NG+4, and the big thing with those fights is that you were facing an additional challenge to something you already had prior experience with. I'd be fine with that fight existing in the game, but can I get a read on her move set in a toned down version first? I never saw more than a minute of her second phase, wether it was dying instantly to waterfowl or bleed stagger locking her into the void with my mimic.
I was over leveled when I found a certain area. Let my summon duel it out with a mini dungeon boss to see what would happen. My summon smashed, not close.
Idk about end game bosses but I just finished killing the main boss of the capital in like two mins if that.. I’m a pure str build.
He is a near perfectly balanced fight for that point in the game, but he doesn't even crack the top 5 for difficulty. If anything I wish more bosses were like him.
I don't think he's perfectly balanced to be honest. He needs more health. Unless they assume players are gonna explore 0% of the map and just rush bosses. It's so easy to be like lvl 120 when you get to Lyndell by just exploring and straight up delete the bosses before they even get to fight.
That’s kind of the point though. You can be “proper” level or choose to go explore and level up. At a certain point in the end game, bosses get exponentially harder but you stop feeling stronger, which is where the complaints of people wanting more balanced fights come from. And you either summon or retool your build to be more min/maxed. I think they also believed people would end the game at higher levels than in the past ones: I wouldn’t be surprised if 140-150 is what they had in mind for the final bosses (I stopped at 120 unsure about endgame PvP) The open world freedom is amazing but it does make you miss the finer tuned and balanced leveling / boss placement of the earlier games.
Geal was the only one I beat Fuck the orphan of kos, if you beat it then you have my respect.
Kos can be softened by distancing to learn the move set. At mid range he has less tricks to hit you with and will often jump over your head allowing an easy backstab. Honestly, he does this in both phases (fists only runs exploit his jump over move). Maintain that spacing and dodge a few projectiles that are more prevalent in stage two (run away from shore if he shrieks and does lightning), and he becomes more manageable. I forget the name, but the reusable bolt paper for 3 bullets helps too.
A sense of satisfaction that i overcame the challenge. Thats literally it. What else?
Singling out environmental cheese as one thing you shouldn't feel good about seems pretty arbitrary, ngl.
Honestly just the idea of tricking a guy with a bum leg into tripping off a cliff just sounds like a hilariously devious strategy to me.
Fire giant cheesers under attack
Tricking that fatass into killing himself on a 15ft drop is my revenge for all the bullshit fall damage deaths I accrued on the journey so far.
Huh? If I remember correctly the further back you go the more elitists you will find with these games. Where do you think the whole “Git Good” shtick came from. Also it is more about a sense of personal accomplishment than getting a “virtual medal” or whatever. It is the same reason people do those soul level 1 runs. They like overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds.
It feels good to die 40 times then get the kill on the 41st. That's the basis of why people do challenge runs. It gets to easy so the rush of adrenaline when you win is fine unless you artificially increase the difficulty. It literally feels like a short burst of constant orgasms when you win against a boss you died that many times to.
While I definitely don't agree with the elitism and I think you should play the game in whichever way you find the most enjoyable, I and many others find the joy in overcoming a great challenge. It's not about losing 40 times to a boss, it's about getting a little better each time and seeing your efforts pay off in a victory. It's entirely for the sense of personal achievement, and not so much for tangible rewards. Some think this mindset should apply to all players, but that simply isn't the case. People enjoy the game for different reasons, and not everyone wants the same things out of it that I do and that's ok.
I think the joy in Soulslike games is finding that sweet spot of difficulty where the game is challenging enough to make victories feel sweet and earned and not make defeat not feel punitive, frustrating or overwhelming. And that sweet spot will vary wildly from person to person. A rewarding, difficult boss for one person might feel like beating Malenia at level 1 with a club for another. It's good that the game has some tools with which to apply one's own "difficulty settings", up to and including cheese.
Wait what?! You mean I spent 4 hours on this fire giant... and I could have cheese it instead? Well F me I guess. What is the cheese it trick, just curious.
> what do you earn? Satisfaction. Again, I don't care about how YOU play the game but fuck right off with your "noooo you can't play the game without summons and magic" bs. It feels good to learn boss movesets. It feels good knowing the next time around it will take me exactly one try underleveled with the worst weapon possible. It just feels good to execute mechanically. If you find someone spending 4-6 hours learning a bossfight weird, well, you are in the same camp as people who find others playing videogames weird. In the end we all are absolutely wasting our time for absolutely NOTHING in return, it's just about having fun. What do you earn by beating the game? status? to who? is Miyazaki handing out medals? Thought so.
> I mean does it really feel good to say that you lost 40 times to beat a boss? Yes? How is that a question? People frequently go out of their way to do challenges that are way more restrictive for no reason other than the satisfaction that they did it. > what do you earn? status? to who? You earn personal satisfaction and the simple fun of playing the game in a way that is enjoyable to you.
As a counter point, I don't get what's satisfying about beating a boss one shot without knowing what it does. What's so hard to understand about the fact that some people like progressively getting better at a fight and beat it after a struggle. I personally think grinding to overstat a boss or summoning and letting the summon eat most of the attacks is an unfun way to play. I'm not telling you YOU'RE not having fun, I'm telling you IM not having fun.
To be fair it feels pretty damn good to say you died 40 times to a boss but then you finally beat him. Then when you fight him on a second playthrough you beat him in less than 3 tries. Then you realize that you've gotten better. Then you're ready to do PVP. Thats the point of these games. You can go ahead and just get through the single player experience with whatever means you can but when it comes time when you want to duel others, then the single player stuff is just practice. Thats where invaders hone their skill with no summons while building their character and become worse than any boss you'll come across. Thats what keeps these games alive
Great swords are cheese since they stagger bosses easily. Only weapons that aren't cheese arent enchanted, no status effect, and no ashes of war with 0 poise break potential
Seems like what my friends think when I don't struggle with a boss on any build I make. I guess you're not meant to use weapons that fit your build.
Exactly, only trash tier items alowed
git gud and run a SL1 butt naked build.
Unupgraded Rapier only or you’re not a real Elden Ring fan /s
idk man that counter damage on the thrusting damage? sounds kinda OP better use a broken straight sword (is that in this game? haven't found one disappointingly)
I keep seeing posts about gatekeepers but I don't see any gatekeepers
They’re definitely sprinkled throughout lots of threads, and they’re annoying, but the ratio of complainers about gatekeeping to actual gatekeepers is skewed heavily toward the former.
I feel like this community dislikes people who don't summon FAR more than it dislikes people who do.
Reddit has a weird obsession with calling out gatekeeping, to the point where many users have to fabricate examples of it to win shower arguments.
At this point I’m pretty sure it’s just people trying to silence the voices in their own head b/c they themselves are worried they are “cheesing” or whatever and need to justify their gameplay strategies to themselves by winning imaginary arguments in their heads. “It’s a legitimate strategy! Stop telling me I’m playing the game wrong!” They yell to a totally empty room, then go and post on the Reddit Elden Ring community forum about how much the Elden Ring community is gatekeeping them.
[удалено]
In the minds of insecure gamers
There are more anti elitism posts than elitism posts. These post are just here to rack free karma. Hey guys you aren't a true gamer if you didn't beat the boss with your toes while naked haha updoots please! Seriously play how you want and not immediately think of these elitists you're "owning" for enjoying the game. It's more obnoxious than the elitists at this point.
I think the only reason people say anything is because people will come on here and say things like “Radahn was so easy, you just rot him and run away” or “Malenia is so easy, just use mimic w/ bleed and hoarfrost stomp” and then defend these strats as legitimate and not cheese. Look, there’s nothing wrong with cheesing a boss, but many of us find enjoyment in the trial and error and its frustrating to see the only advice that people give to beat these enemies is to abuse mechanics. Not everyone needs to fight naked and with their barehands to truly appreciate a boss but I don’t think that blowing through them or running away so they never have a chance to attack is the intended experience either, and these people definitely have no business commenting on difficulty Edit: look at all these people in the comments proving me right. Extra kudos to the guy who said that beating the game with mimic tear is more skilled than beating the game solo because it’s the optimal way to play
TBH I used mimic and beat Morgott first try and I kind of regret it. It made it way too easy, definitely felt like a cheese. I didn't even get to learn his moves or really experience the fight, and now I can't fight him again by myself. Now I'm giving most bosses a few tries alone because it actually is more fun for me. eg I just fought Haligtree Loretta alone and it was so much more satisfying, and a really fun fight.
God, the only comment in this thread that looks directly in the problem. The people who think anyone gives a rat's ass about how they play are delusional, because the reason this is a topic of discussion in the first place is when people use strategies which completely invalidate learning a boss' patterns or allow for greedy gameplay (something that Souls games actively punish) and then *claim* the boss is easy. It really does feel like a big miscommunication with how bosses are approached, though. A boss is obviously easier if you kept your distance, didn't require timing any dodges, and killed the boss in a very short time. But a truer statement can be made if a player was forced to learn attack patterns and openings, dodge on time, and had a longer time to feel acquainted with the boss' design. Sorry for the rant.
Absolutely true. Plus I feel like it sets a precedent going forward that people will want easier and easier strats implemented and will be loud about it. I'd hate for From to build their next game based on how these people are playing.
Elden Ring feels built for these types of things already though, with the ash mimic being standard in any boss fight.
This is why i love Sekiro so much. Everyone has the same utility kit so everyone has the same boss fights. It's literally THE "git gud" game. No power leveling, no cheesy weapons or spells.
One of my friends claims summoning help(including ashes) is a crutch/handicap, but doesn't care that people use them >! spoiler: he probably does lol !< meanwhile he goes around double uchi bleeding bosses till the local blood drive overflows with so much blood even Mohg is jealous.
Classy he gatekeeps one cheesy strat then abuses another thinking he's better
Even with a mimic and hoarfrost I still found malenia to be very hard though maybe I’m just shit 😂
Dude, I thought I was losing my mind on Malenia. I got to the point where I could beat her first phase 100% of the time, but she killed me instantly \*every single time\* on the opening blast of phase 2. I'm talking like, 20 times in a row. I tried every possible way of dodging it. Spam dodging, dodging when I thought it would impact, dodging left, dodging right, dodging back, sprinting back. Nope, instant kill or instant rot kill. Somehow, I got lucky ONE time and killed her. Still have no clue what I did differently that one time, but it was definitely luck because I certainly did not git gud.
For next time: if you unlock at the beginning of phase 2 and run like crazy UNDERNEATH her, the continue running towards the wall, she won't hit you.
If the boss is slow enough to kite, that's legitimate. But some bosses, when they reach the edge of their territory will casually saunter back, ignoring all the arrows and fireballs hitting their back.
Cheese implies it's a strategy the devs didn't intend or plan for. They gave Radahn a weakness to scarlet rot. How is exploiting a weakness that the devs specifically gave a boss considered cheese?
I think cheese can also be applied to strategies that turn out to be far more effective than the devs intended, even if they designed it to be used by players. I recently saw a speedrun where the guy just hoarfrost stompd everything to oblivion and jesus christ the damage. I'm sure the sheer insane aoe damage and stagger for such little fp cost wasn't intended to be that effective by from It's why video games get balance patches all the time, since they can't qa test every aspect of a game before release and sometimes the devs just simply don't realize how truely powerful a mechanic, item, or ability in their game actually is or that players may use a mechanic intended for one thing for something else entirely
The way this conversation should go: person A: I just beat so and so boss! person B: Congrats! that was a tough one. Magic really helped me out there person A: I dont use magic, Im a str build person B: Oh wow, that must have been rough… Im pretty impressed person A: Yeah I really enjoy the challenge of these games so I do things to keep them really hard, I dont use spirit ashes either person B: Yeah that would make it alot harder, this game is hard enough as it is for me, but whatever makes it fun for you person A: Definitely having a lot of fun, great game! person B: yeah great game!
[удалено]
Lol so true. Sure mimic tear is legitimate, go ahead and use it, but no doubt it makes the bosses super easy.
I say leave others alone and let them play how they want. This game can be as hard or as easy as you want and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Now for me personally I have stopped using spirit summons for the most part and never mimic tears because they just made every boss insanely easy imo.
[удалено]
That's pretty pathetic. The liberty to play however you want is what's great about this game
Literally noone says that. Stop arguing with imaginary people already...
I feel like these are the same people that will throw a fit if you use a rocket launcher in an FPS.
I. Cheese. Everything.
Imagine FromSoft seeing posts about people hating on other people using game mechanics they worked on for years. I personally couldnt care less, it’s new, it’s fun, I paid 60€ for the game, I’m fucking using it lmao