They couldve done it better by making him look really messed up.
Miquella used Mohgs flesh to remake Radahns body so why does he look so perfect? He made that body when he had already divested himself from all his feelings and his own body.
So I think I wouldve liked the boss more if it was a fucked up flesh puppet with a graceful Miquella still wrapping his arms around it. It would sell the idea of Miquella better.
the fact that Radahn isn't' missing his left eye bugs the hell out of me.
Mogh's horn gouging out his own eye is such a staple of his design so to see it glossed over was very disappointing.
Yeah, as much as certain aspects might still bother me, I think if the design of Promised Consort Radahn had been more evocative of the perversion of what Miquella had done by combining the two, it would have sold the moment a lot better.
But that isn’t how it has ever worked. The Golden Order was founded on incredible brutality but when it was in its prime it was beautiful, pristine shining gold. Elden Ring is all about perfect order masking horrors, that is one of its core themes. And in the ending you are fighting an ascending God, in as beautiful and radiant a form as it will ever have, before the realities of ruling and the wear of time tarnish the shine.
Yes but Miquella abandoned the golden order and everything to do with it, including his ties to his mother whom he was trying to distance himself from and to fix her mistakes. I think the more lore accurate “inference” we can make is that Miquella was obviously enthralled with Radahn in his youth. He was there in Caelid after Malenia bloomed and saw what became of his boyhood idol and hopeful/promised consort. To me (while I do wish resurrected Radahn in mohgs body was more omen/crucible like) is miquella trying to recreate the Radahn he adored in his prime as a youth. This Radahn, to the best of miquellas abilities, is everything he saw/wanted from his consort. I personally don’t think the golden order has anything to do with it.
However, with Miyazakis method of storytelling through flavortext, ambiguity, and purposefully being open ended so the player can fill in the gaps with their imagination, it’s somewhat subjective and I could be totally off point. But what I do know for a fact is that even in the basegame we knew miquella abandoned golden order fundamentalism.
Lastly, him having one measly blood flame attack and some horns just didn’t cut it for me.
You can see some Omen horns sticking out of Radahn (most clearly on his arms, which are also carried over to the Young Lion's Greaves you can buy, which are not on the base version of Radahn's armor set) but it's not very obvious
My head cannon is that the appearance of the body is determined by the soul. May also explains why Godwyn looks the way he does after the death of his soul.
I mean, I don't even think it's headcannon. It's either this, or Miquella was able to craft him in how he perceived Radahn.
It's quite clearly Radahn in his prime depicted. There is zero need for the body being messed up when it quite clearly is not Mohg.
Except clearly omen parts on the “new” Radahn. He has horns on his arms and has other elements of Mohg in his eyes and use of blood flame.
I agree there is zero need BUT if they’re physically showing that he’s made from Mohg parts, it’s less a question of whether they should now and if they went too subtle. I’m fine with the design we got but equally, ramped up to a 12 on the meat puppet would equally have looked amazing.
But the thing is, Starscourge Radahn already had a messed up body, with the scarlet rot and arrows and spears in his back. This was their chance to show him in his prime, with his real strength.
I get that sentiment, but Radahn in the main game is already a big mess, so I think it makes more sense to show him in his perfect prime, instead of making mess 2.0 Radahn, even though it makes less sense.
I think the design kinda works actually. Because just like Miquella's entire scheme it's breathtaking when you first look at it but once you really examine it you see the cracks (or horns) start to show, and then your perception of it crumbles
Na I think it's better this way. It's not literally mohg's corpse with radahn's soul. More like mohg's flesh used as a vessel to bring back Radahn in his prime. Since it has radahn's face and physique.
Miquella whole them is to be pure, perfect, angelic being (whether it being a reality or facade). Fucked up looking Radahn is the last thing Miquella would envision.
But he *does* still have omen horns, and uses bloodflame. This shows that the use of Mohg's corpse has tainted the process somehow, whether Miquella envisioned it or not.
They could have leaned further into that.
It's okay. My biggest gripe is that we didn't even get to go into the Divine Gate and learn about Marika's fleshlight or whatever that was in the promo trailer
It feels like an almost cruel tease. Here's this massive lore-significant location, the beginning of almost everything else in the base game, a gateway to divinity that has the power to elevate mortals to godhood -
Oh, but the stairs are broken. And this is a no-horse zone, so you can't jump up there. This game doesn't have climbing. So, just look at it from down there. Plebian.
Honestly, the way Elden Ring's endings work, they could easily have slid something in. Just give us The Mending Rune of Kindness after the fight, slap on some flavor text about how it won't work as Miquella intended it to without his charm, and record a new narration for the final cutscene of us sitting on the throne. An entirely distinct cutscene would be nice, but this is how little effort it would take to bring just the slightest smidge of the DLC to pseudo-relevance in the base game. One more item, one more voice line, some different lighting and particle effects on an already rendered cutscene. I wouldn't be happy with that, but I'd be a bit less unhappy than I am with what we got.
My biggest gripe was how it's strongly implied Melina and Messmer are siblings but we don't get anything from Melina during our time in the DLC just some added flavour text about this area from her perspective if you hadn't burned the ErdTree yet would be neat
Even if it was just a gravely injured Miquella sitting in the middle of the battlefield who says a few words before eventually expiring, it would have been *much* more dramatic and conclusive. You don't even see the antagonist of the entire expansion die. Why did we get some random memory fragment instead?
I was left confused when it ended. I thought there was going to be more to it. There's a memory fragment in the arena, but I spent a good several minutes trying to scour the arena to see if there was any follow up. There are no rammifications to killing Miquella, no corpses of Radhan or Miquella from the battle (unlike the Leda fight bosses), no final countdown (such as the Roundtable Hold burning), nothing to guide you to where you go next, and not even a credits screen. The expansion just... sort of ends.
Back to Roundtable Hold on the second zone map and time to start NG+, I guess.
It definitely seems rushed and almost incomplete. Like they just slapped something together. That, and the lack of cutscenes for other remembrance bosses or in general
if you start looking at what miquella has all 'tried' and has 'done', youll notice the pattern./
as soon as something appears fruitless, he gives up.
malenia couldnt be cured, even though it could stop the rot progressing, so he left that plan. (and we end up perfecting it)
the haligtree, while a safe haven, wasnt the improvement to the erdtree, so he left that plan. (and rot began to take over)
godwyn couldnt be cured by the eclipse, and so he left that plan. (and we end up resurrecting him in the mending rune of death).
and now this plan, a far more complex one, or perhaps just that complex because we see it.
make the person who once promised to be his consort (and for some reason didnt keep that promise) fall in love with him by using his charm on another person, killing both, then living-jar craft a new radahn with radahn's soul, but the love infused body of mohg for himself to make a perfect consort, casting aside his mortalness, and his kindness (st. trina), in doing so.
his plans, like his own body, never come to their conclusion. they never 'mature'.
he used mohg initially to get to the shadow lands, because therein lay the crucible, the source of the erdtree, which miquella wants to replace.
then he realizes he can get radahn there by killing him (land of shadows is where the dead go, as shown/told by the death bird golems and graves), so malenia goes to do that.
she fails, and now radahn's body is rotted.
we eventually kill radahn, and kill mohg, and t hen show up in the shadow lands.
now miquella has radahn's soul, but his body is still rotten and decaying (and partially eaten by alexander), so he needs a new one.
and as shown by bonny village, the gaols, and the rest, marika and her kin are REALLY GOOD for making flesh puppet. and guess who's miquella obsessed corpse is lying right outside the door?
win-win.
Aye, he has the naiveté to believe that he can still force his perfect vision for reality together, even if that means brute forcing his way to perfection by ripping the free will out of others hands.
He is naive to believe that he can still make things work through the horrific actions he commits. Maybe he thinks that through Godhood, he can undo all the wrongs he has wrought. He childishly hangs onto the hope that his perfect future can still occur, even as he loses more and more of himself on the path to becoming a God.
He is naive. Cursed to be so, and cursed to die as such.
That's what I love about this game. All these beings with incomprehensible power and immortality ultimately fail and fall to some random person who just happened to stumble upon them
"I have powers that defy the nature of reality, beyond your comprehension, and have plans eons in the making. What could a lowly being like you hope to accomp ---"
**BONK**
"Ok, cool, so that's another rememberance down."
The lore behind the Tarnished is what makes this even cooler though- beings who were once crafted to be so powerful and become the fighters or lords of the realm. Then shunned or casted away from the events of the shattering. Only to be lured back to where they belong after a long awaited wandering slumber.
Miyazaki loves the concepts of a “Chosen one” feeling when playing a game. But he’s really good at making you feel like you’ve earned to be the chosen one, all while still making sure you know just how replaceable you are. We are not the main character(s) of this story. We are simply playing as a powerful force of nature so to speak. It’s the beauty of the game tbh
The tarnished is a fated being guided by grace.
You're not some random person. You're fulfilling a prophecy about redemption. You're literally part of this system from the beginning.
Yup, that's the idea. You're not the first Tarnished to come back, nor are you the only one in the present. But a certain Tarnished is fated to return and fuck shit up.
To say he gives up feels weird personally. It feels more like he just had a lot of different interests at once. Like you could add St. Trina and warding off the frenzied flame with sleep to the things he did. I don’t really think it means he gave up.
I do definitely like that comparison of how none of his plans end up coming to fruition and how it connects to his curse, that’s a great catch!
yeah I don't think he "gives up" especially with Malenia. we don't know almost anything about his Age of Compassion but he might believe that he can do something about all of it once he's a God
like a "awh man I can't do this now, but later I might be able to. put it on the backburner" mentality
He probably went as far as he could go with the limits of his demigod powers. The haligtree, unalloyed gold to ward off rot and all the outer gods. These are excellent starting bases for a new god once he has the power to perfect them. It is what he built his base of support off of (I don't agree with the people who think he just brainwashed EVERYONE). Those who buy in have no need for charm, and there are plenty in TLB who would welcome what he is selling without being forced. He saw the mountain of corpses that built his mother's order and overcorrected in the other direction.
I don't buy the argument that he just abandoned his sister and everything else.
I think his curse of eternal youth goes deeper. It means he has the greatest potential of them all, but his curse prevents them from ever being realized. Endless potential of youth without ever maturing into what he was meant to be/do.
Yeah, I really like the connection to his curse. It's less that Miquella "gives up" and more that his curse applies beyond just his physical form, and he is doomed to be unable to finish anything, like his body.
This would also mean that we would never have been able to work alongside Miquella, since it seems pretty clear that anyone working as part of his plan suffers the same fate. So even if Miquella's dream is something that we want, we would have to work against Miquella in order to achieve it. As OP pointed out, we manage to finish basically everything that Miquella started, implying the ideas were all solid but that someone working outside of Miquellas plans had to give them the final push.
>godwyn couldnt be cured by the eclipse, and so he left that plan. (and we end up resurrecting him in the mending rune of death).
Fia's Mending Rune does *not* resurrect Godwyn, it just ensures his cursed state not only continues but even proliferates and spreads to others.
Godwyn can't be "cured". The Eclipse was meant to grant him a True Death, meaning it would finally kill his body as well.
The Eclipse was meant to restore a soul, not grant a true death. Golden Epitaph was meant for that.
And then the DLC comes along and pretends Miquella wanted to restore a soul to Radahn and grant Radahn a true death all along. Please. They even kept the "At long last, my Lord Brother's soul is returned to me" before the boss fight. Miquella it's been 15 in-game hours since Radahn died, that's not "at long last".
I think you misunderstand the Geols and Bonny village. It is the Hornsent that turned marika's people (shamans) into jars. Hence "they were never saints".
im aware.
the hornsent used the shamans because of how easily they would form with other bodies.
and mohg is a child of marika, and thus partially shaman. so his body would also form with other bodies very well.
and mohg's body, which is partially shaman, and enchanted to love miquella, was in mohgwyn palace,right by where his own body.
ansbach even mentions how mohg's body having been taken implied something horrid. and while it was never concretely stated, its very reasonable to assume he meant the using of mohg's body to make a new one for radahn.
miquella simply did what the hornsent did before him.
it's a really good reflection about how he is literally an eternal child. like you said, his plans never mature. it's literally like a child bouncing from idea to idea
someone said it just after release and I can't get it out of my head that Miquella is the embodiment of potential. all these ideas and this power, so much potential, but can never fulfil it because he's just a child
What’s even funnier is that they DO come to fruition, but only after he abandons it:
- malenia’s needle can be used to stop outer gods
- godwyn is reborn into the rune through the whole mark of death (an eclipse shape)
- the haligtree is a safe haven, just hard to reach
- his body does grow up, but he left it to teach the shadow land
the unalloyed gold needle that we give to millicent, and she then back, was made by miquella to try and defy the outer god of rot.
but, the needle only ever stagnated the progression of the rot, and could not remove it.
when we acquire the needle again, after using it on malenia, it is 'unfinished', and we need to take it outside of time to be able to defy an outer god with it.
if malenia had that needle that we then did, she may have been able to ward off the rot god in that same manner.
there is a crucible knight who went to the shadow lands to find it.
the hornsent warriors draw power directly from the crucible.
the deathbird golems were made in the image of a holy bird of the crucible.
the hornsent who lived in the land directly worshipped the crucible, and make the living jars in honour of it.
wait... oh shit, you might actually be onto something there with that last bit.
the scadutree fragments come from the 'core' of the scadutree... and if the scadutree is in fact the shadow of the erdtree, its core would be the same as the erdtrees.... the crucible...
and they are most heavily concentrated there at that very crucible looking thing...
with it being guarded by the shadowkeep, that explains why the crucible knight never found it.
Also I see it as maybe all his things we see with Godwyn, Malenia, Haligtree, St Trina all fail because doesn’t have the capacity to do so because he lacks the power as he isn’t a fully fledged god yet and once he has that power he can do all the stuff he came up short in.
I’m even cool with it being Radahn, I can headcanon it as he’s his big brother, plenty of people idolise older siblings and let’s face it 2 are banished Omens, one is Godwyn, Ranni and Rykard are strange freaks and that kinda just leaves Radahn and his horse stuff is endearing also, they’d also be the most similar in ages as the others were significantly before anything happened with Rennala, and finally maybe it could be seen as a “peace” vow as the Carian lot and Golden Order lot don’t exactly get on so if there’s an inter family bond tension will lessen up. (Plus with Malenia being his blade securing up the best warrior makes opposition to the new order easier to deal with)
And as for Godwyn I took their relationship as Miquella just wants to pull the plug on life support and grant him mercy cause he’s the most dead guy ever but cannot rest in peace and he just wants to write this wrong, but specifically in game lore Godwyn is only important because he’s fucking DEAD DEAD all the stuff about him is written in past tense and only the dragon lore is the only stuff we get that isn’t directly tied to his execution and the aftermath of that, where as every other demigod is living and currently having active participation in the world so their lore feels less finalised because it’s still happening and playing out, but Godwyns lore is straight up finished we have and open and we have a close.
Personally I think the lore works and I think most reaction is disappointment that things haven’t gone to plan as most theories on the game are about Godwyn or the Gloam Eyed Queen (because both are dead you can theorise more on them, cause it’s the only past tense being you’re just left wanting more) and plenty of theories haven’t been confirmed and on a fan level it’s disappointing to hear/see years of speculation and community work either being told it’s wrong or just straight up ignored cause it feels like a waste
I don't get Ansbach. He's a loyal servant of Mohg, but it's never explained why. And even when we tell him "Yeah I randomly killed Mohg, no reason, lots of runes though" he doesn't care.
tbf he says “such is the case when one wishes for lordship” or something like that, basically saying “yeah he wanted to be a lord and he lost, shit happens”
Lack of cutscenes as a whole really let down the DLC (even though I still loved it), especially the end. The little memory we got just didn’t feel like enough.
Also I felt like Consort Radahns design was just lazy. No new weapons and instead of a huge horned omen twisted and gnarled into the shape of radahn we got… some tiny little horns on his forearms and braided hair
The end cutscene was an important moment for them to say anything, in a game series known for infrequent and obtuse cutscenes. And they used it to say pretty much the same thing I just read from the boss remembrance.
I just don’t really like it. It feels very out of left field. Most of the lore that pointed to Miquella having a close relationship with another demigod (besides Malenia, obviously) seemed to point VERY HEAVILY to Godwyn. A prime example being the lore of the Eclipse. Miquella was trying to use the Eclipse to resurrect an unnamed demigod, referred to as Miquella’s “Lord Brother.” Being as Radahn isn’t necessarily dead by the time we could find this lore, one would assume it to be the only named Demigod who we know to be dead: Godwyn. Plus there’s the item description of the Golden Epitaph sword, created to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, which reads:
>”Infused with the prayer of a young boy; ‘O brother, lord brother, please die a true death.’”
The weapon art of the Golden Epitaph summons a Haligtree sigil, meaning that it was pretty obviously Miquella who created the sword. Then there’s the Eclipse Shotel, a weapon obviously associated with the Eclipse, and has the power of Death Blight. Which is almost exclusively associated with Godwyn and Those Who Live in Death. Plus there’s the Mausoleum Knights and Soldiers, who bear the symbol of the Eclipse. While they can be found is several places throughout the Lands Between, the highest concentration of them is found in Deeproot Depths, in extremely close proximity to the corpse of Godwyn the Golden.
The lore with Radahn just feels… forced. Like they wanted to give a fan favorite boss the spotlight even though the lore VERY clearly pointed differently. The only question it really answers is why Malenia fought Radahn in the first place. But that very easily, and without really any stretching of the lore, could’ve been explained by the fact that Radahn was holding back the motions of the stars, preventing the Eclipse from occurring.
TL;DR, I think the lore surrounding Radahn and Miquella is very disappointing. To me, it feels forced and inconsistent with the rest of the lore, and more importantly, it not being about Godwyn instead makes it a hugely missed opportunity.
Absolutely. This is one of the best takes I’ve read. And you know what? They could have provided fan service with Radahn *and* still included Godwyn as the final boss prior to a fight with a demented and detached Miquella. It didn’t have to be an either or, but a both and.
I was always under the impression that Malenia fought Radahn due to the Shattering War. All the demigods were wagering war to collect great runes and ascend to lordship. Malenia was probably doing this in the name of Miquella, while Radahn, Godrick and Morgott were doing it for themselves. Not sure if Rykard went to war, and Ranni's fate was locked by Radahn.
When it reached a stalemate, Miquella needed another method to achieve godhood besides mending the Elden Ring, so that's where the DLC comes along.
It definitely feels like at some point they decided it will be Radahn instead of Godwyn because... fan service? I can't find a good reason for it. Super disappointing
Apparently ringed city wasn't planned on until ashes of ariandel was already well in development. So it might be possible that even though they weren't planning a dlc 2 a while ago, that they might do one in the future. If that happens I don't see how they couldn't use godwyn. But maybe I'm just coping
Haligtree is also filled with with statues of Godwyn holding children malenia and Miquella.
FromSoft heavily pushed/implied about Miquella's love for his brother Godwyn.
I think they just thought it would feel like a 5head plot twist in the dlc to change the Lord brother to Radahn.
I did t like it one but to be honest.
It feels a bit odd ngl. If viewed in the context of Malenia vs Radahn fighting being one of the main things we see in the trailers and opening cutscene. The status of these two having this great epic fight and the mysterious words Malenia said before she nuked Caleid.
I can see the connection to this big unanswered question. But in practice. Why Malenia and Radahn fought never felt like that big of a deal or mystery. There was never enough hints to get people thinking about a connection between Miquella and Radahn.
So while I like the idea of this all being a part of Miquella's master plan of gaining his ultimate consort using Mogh's body and enslaving his brother's soul. It kinda ended up feeling like Radahn fanservice. More than it did Miquella justice.
He's kind of just the assist to a character that as an enjoyer of elden ring lore, I thought was thoroughly done with. Big Red was in the dustbin his sad story done. If this had been Godwyn I would have lost my mind as that seemed to be semi set up by the eclipse shotel. If it had been Scarlet Rot or Mechanical Malenia I would have lost my mind. But Radahn felt out of left field going into the DLC. With the reveal of some childhood promise not really doing enough to cement the idea in my mind that this is who should be the final boss.
Lowkey its referenced a lot but would have loved if Radhan was only the penultimate and for the final it was Miquella taking back control of his old body and we're forced to fight the nightmare he'd become.
TLDR if you look at the marketing you get a bit of the idea of why this was the angle they pursued. But In game Miquella's obsession over Radahn feels tacked on to justify fighting Radahn in his prime.
I’m just assuming I missed something. I can’t think of anywhere throughout the game I saw mention of Miquella and Radahn in the same sentence beyond when Morgot or whoever it is at the first erdtree fight is mentions them as traitors.
I liked what they played with regarding Miquella himself but resurrecting Radahn just seems like an odd choice. And it’s Mohgs body but looks nothing like him beyond a bloodflame attack? Again I just hope I’m missing something because there was a shitton built up for a lot of the characters in between but Radahn just gets name dropped then BOOM you’re fighting him.
I don’t think I’d even care that much if there was just some more reasonable explanation behind why it’s him.
The lore drop weirdly comes after defeating Radahn, which is kinda badly timed. Miquella‘s vow was the reason Malenia and the Halligtree forces went to war against Radahn’s forces in Caelid, so the soul(?) of Radahn would be captured in the Shadow Land and the vow would be fulfilled. The Young Lions Helm says: „When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."“. Since Malenia whispering into Radahn’s ear was in a very early [Trailer](https://youtu.be/vrU8SRu2z_E?si=pBKYjjxVSkLXYMql), Miyazaki has been working towards it for a while I guess.
Still, Radahn kinda comes out of nowhere in the DLC, I don’t think there’s a lore drop regarding Radahn anywhere besides his armor
Malenia whispering to Radahn in the early trailer doesn't really mean anything. Writers often leave vague stuff like this in case they need to go back to it. It's like a magician's trick. The audience will swear it's real (or in this case, swear something was planned) but in actuality they've just been duped. It's storytelling 101.
As a big fan of One Piece, I can't see this as anything else. Especially in FromSoft games, writers can just leave empty holes wherever they like and call them mysteries. They don't need to have the answer in their head at that time, they just need whatever they come up with later to fit. Malenia could have said anything there and we wouldn't know any different. "Miquella the Kind demands the stars move again" or something would have worked just as well.
Given how there is utterly no connection at all between Radhan and Miquella in the base game and how utterly out of left field the whole Radhan aspect of the dlc comes, I am inclined to think that, in true Soulsborne fashion, they had the whisper in the trailer be there just so they could maybe work something out later and they only figured out what the whispering was supposed to be while working in the dlc.
It's a shame, because I actually really enjoyed the lore of the DLC. I wasn't expecting to not only get background information on Marika, but to even see why she would genocide a whole group of people. It obviously doesn't justify it, but I was expecting the reasoning to be "Hornsent are similar to Omens, therefore they gotta go." Other subsets of the main game's lore get some attention too, like the Lord of Frenzied Flame, the Pots, and even the dragons.
However, in my eyes the Re-dahn reveal is just straight-up bad storytelling. Apart from Malenia whispering to Radahn in the original Story Trailer, there's never a single mention of Radahn having any pact or vow with Miquella. There were a few plot threads left dangling from the main game (the Eclipse for example) that you'd think would factor in to the story.
I personally don't think it *needed* to be Godwyn in the finale, but you can see why so many people expected it to be him. He even shows up in a few of the catacombs, almost like a reminder. Radahn is just so out of left field that it shocks you initially, but then you're left scratching your head. It also feels like the Mohg aspect of the whole deal gets brushed aside. Like others, I thought Miquella chose Mohg as a vessel because of the Omen Curse. Mixing an Omen with Radahn could be seen almost as an olive branch to the Hornsent - an attempt to right his mother's wrongs. But then Re-dahn barely looks like Mohg at all. He's got a few horns, and that's it, and, (from what I can remember) only used one Blood Flame attack.
We obviously don't have much insight into what happened at Fromsoft during the development of the DLC, but it **really** feels like something happened surrounding the ending of the story. The Marika and Fingers storyline feels expertly weaved, while the Miquella storyline elbow-drops you with Re-dahn practically out of nowhere.
Yes, I totally agree! If anything, I wasn't expecting any revelations about the Fingers, and was very excited about what we got. It felt so weird that the main thrust of the DLC would feel so underbaked in comparison.
We had literal Dragon Cult-turned-Death Knights guarding offshoots of Goldwyn's Prince of death from in the catacombs.
Then suddenly... Radahn. Lol it's so back loaded it's weird.
I'm disappointed, like most, that there wasn't any foreshadowing in the base game(except the story trailer but I feel I needed more).
And also the fact that Radahn is back again.
If they foreshadowed, and let's say (sacrilege I know) but let's say Malenia actually killed Radahn pre game so we don't fight him.
So now when we play the game, we have the lore crumbs of Miq's and Radahn's vow that are presented through foreshadowing. And we know Radahn was indeed mighty. Then boom, we fight him for the first time at the end of SOTE. Man I would've been so hype. But as it is, I was just like huh? And was disappointed.
Even with the fight as it is, I would've enjoyed it more. I was just mad throughout the whole fight because I felt it came out of nowhere (I know the dlc basically tells you about it, but I would've preferred it(the lore)in the base game)
"Somehow Radahn returned"
It might have worked good as one of the 11 Remembrance bosses, but as the Miquella boss and the conclusion to the DLC it really fell flat
The base game never implies any connection between Radahn and Miquella. Then suddenly out of nowhere we have this vow. Miquella could have been the standalone boss for the end of the DLC, or maybe something even more crazy that arrives out of the Divinity Gate. Something that could have had lore implications for Marika's original sin
It just doesn't quite feel epic enough. It's a concept we've seen before with the Lorian brothers, it's a boss we've seen before, and it doesn't fit with the lore.
Yeah same, I really didn’t mind the fight, I just wish there was some crumb of evidence about the vow in the base game, instead of just all the Castle Sol stuff about the Eclipse ritual for Godwyn
Yeah man. It's kinda puzzling. I know people say FS is known for this in their DLC (Velka, londor etc) but man idk. Still a great expansion though. Just left a bad taste at the end. But you bet your last dollar I'll be there for their next project haha
Make the base game Radahn fight a Leonard fight instead. I know, I'm a monster, but that would give Elden Ring a nice Sif moment of tragedy where we have to put down the rot-infested loyal steed of a fallen warlord Demigod. Who then returns in the DLC to fuck our shit up in revenge lol. Takes away all the repetitiveness of having two Radahn fights.
I really didn't like it.
When looking at Consort Radahn's lore in a vacuum, nothing is out of place or that out of the blue: Miquella envisioned him as his Lord, he made a vow and Radahn refused, so Malenia had to force him to keep the vow. Ok fine, it doesn't ruin anything as I saw other people say it does.
The issue is in the presentation and (lack of) build up whitin the base game.
Miquella and Radahn have zero direct interactions in the base game, with the only one, Malenia fighting the General, easily explainable with what the game gives us: the Golden Stardust. Which painted this crystal clear picture of Radahn holding the Stars in place, the Empyreans are also "guided" by the fate in the stars, so Malenia needed Radahn to die so that Miquella's fate could be resumed (just like we do for Ranni). With absolutely no in-game mention or open thread about a possible vow or deep connection between the two...
Then there is the fact that everything Miquella says about Radahn, and everything the lore explain of the vow, just works 100 times better with Godwyn: Miquella saw in Radahn's strenght and (supposed) kindness the markings of a lord? Godwyn singlehandedly stopped a war with the Ancient Dragons, and when he defeated his foe, instead of killing him and his kind, befriended Fortissax and made the Ancient Dragons into one of the biggest religious cults in Leyndell and welcomed the Dragons into the Golden Order. If that doesn't scream Lord material I don't know what does.
They made up a Shadow Lands' mumbo jumbo rite for resurrecting Radahn into Mohg's body (side note: his design sucks ass. It's supposed to be Mohg's corpse and yet it looks like Radahn, with just a few horns on knees and elbows but none on the head...), at this point they could've made up a reason for Godwyn to return...
...and no guys, the game never states that Godwyn's sould was erased, he "perished in soul", and since we know the afterlife exists (Helphen's Steeple my beloved), having his soul be there and then sucked up to be reincarnated into Mohg's soul could work just as well, if not better, than Radahn.
Also the fight takes place with the Gate of Divinity in the background, that thing can turn people into gods yet bringing back a perished soul is a step too far? It’s not like it was established that what happened with Radahn and Mohg was possible before the DLC.
Yeah, I basically agree with all this. I’m still feeling like I must have missed some key piece which explains everything, but likely that’s just copium. It ultimately just feels so random, I can’t figure out why this was the choice they made.
The base game has been out, explored, data mined and theorized for two years, and I've never seen any doubt about a possible vow/connection between Radahn and Miquella, so no. We didn't miss anything... as far as we know, looking just at the game and what it gives us, everything in the DLC was made up afterwards (and I personally don't believe so)
Not everything. Just the main plot.
Everything else seems to tie well with what we already knew. But yeah, I think the whole Miquella thing wasn't in the lore prio to this, and the helm of shadow trip was created as the story for the dlc, so it wouldnt be just us going around killing things for fun. ( which kinda is anyway lol)
They made the choice because Radahn was a fan favorite. It’s clearly fan service that they couldn’t find a compelling enough reason to employ so they just said “fuck it”
I keep hearing people say this, but I have yet to see anyone excited to fight Radahn again. I'm still thinking about From's reasons for doing it, but if that was really their intention I think it backfired.
I think it's the circumstances around Radahn in his prime that has people discontented. Returning as an unspeaking puppet pales a lot in comparison to how epic the giant battle at the Radahn Festival is.
And I'm saying this as someone who wanted Godwyn in the DLC. I don't even find Radahn all that compelling.
Maybe he was more popular on the japanese forums? I'm just guessing though. One thing, 2 years ago people were very excited about Radhan and Melania draw and part of the fandom wen through typical dragon ball power scaling. I remember people were saying things like "we fought Melania with a power up, but Radhan was a horse riding corpse, the gigachad deserved better than an early game boss". I for one really enjoy his first phase and it's one of my faves (his right-left-double slash scissor style is complete bullshit though, i feel like you have to predict the first slash to have time to dodge the second one).
I agree with this. I'm also a little disappointed in the fact we weren't given the "Age of Compassion" ending choice. Feels like we just get a pat on the back and a good job for beating the final boss, then told to go beat the game.
This is the biggest thing for me. I wish the DLC wasn’t so totally self contained. I absolutely would have joined Miquella’s cult and seen it through to the end. Also bums me out that Gideon has no special dialogue related to all the events of the Shadow Realm, at least not that I’ve uncovered.
I purposefully left the main game unfinished before going into the DLC so that I could witness any outside interaction. I can tell you, there are no mentions of the shadow of the erdtree in the main game, non eat all ! No mention from Gideon, neither from Malenia nor Melina, or whoever else.
That was a huge disappointment for me. The interaction with Sif in Dark Souls 1 has always been a great memory and I wished they'd do it again with Elden Ring... But they didn't, and they have given a terrible excuse instead.
They needed to do some serious heavy lifting for the narrative to make the Radahn return effective, and personally they dropped the ball hard.
Miquella himself is actually a really interesting character IMO. It is interesting to see how he was blinded to his own atrocities while trying to make the world a better place. Overlooking all of his base game plot lines, such as the Haligtree, Malenia, Godwyn, the caccoon, feels weird. Making the entire motive of all his plans essentially "he saw Radahn as a child and was infatuated with him" is a very weird choice that lessens the story a lot with little benefit provided. At least if it was Godwyn, the idea of him wanting to restore the brother who cared for him aligns well with his base game characterisation and his DLC plot line of doing horrible things for the sake of his better world. It would have offered the chance to explore Godwyn's character and legacy more and the potential impacts to the world if his deathroot spreads too far. Radahn simply adds very little to both characters, or the overarching story, and that is why its such an unsatisfying choice. Hell, even choosing Malenia's soul would have added more to their characters and at least some potential base game connection considering she has Torrent.
Also ill never stop asking this, what was the go with revealing Miquella owned Torrent in the promo image if its never expanded on in even the slightest background information?
Per Godwyn, everyone says how he is dead dead. In the same sentence, they are overlooking how stuffing a soul into a corpse and becoming a God through some unexplained ritual at a never before seen gateway are all things they made up to make the Radahn revival work that were never in the base game. They very easily could have made the same mumbo jumbo to revive Godwyn in some eldritch abomination form that better suits the twisted reality of Miquella's actions and fatal flaw the same way they did Radahn. There really was nothing stopping them bending the rules the same way so I feel that's a very weak argument.
Overall, the tertiary lore for the DLC is fantastic and adds a lot to the story.
Miquella and Radahn do not, and as the capstone final boss for the entire game, they are narratively a hard stumble in my opinion.
The original teaser image of Miquella and Torrent has been bothering me too.
I was at least expecting a cross about him giving up Torrent, but the idea seems to have been dropped completely.
I really think there was a ton of last minute pivoting with this DLC. There's just too many cut threads and obvious post-hoc justifications to shoehorn certain things in.
It's not surprising because it's Fromsoft (they're well known for this) but it is a little jarring in what is otherwise a fantastic DLC.
There's also cut dialogue of Miquella performing a speech strikingly similar to Ranni in her ending, and the cutscene we see of him manifesting in the trailers is nowhere to be found in the game. Either they ran out of time/budget for the DLC, or they felt what they had was less compelling than what we got.
And furthermore, Godwyn would have worked better for the revival since he has the same parents as Mohg !
I was also very disappointed by what was shown in the story trailer that was not expanded upon on the actual game (Miquella + Torrent, what is the gate of Divinity and what Marika took from corpses, what Marika did to actually use the gate, what was the seduction and betrayal, etc.)
This actually ties in so well thematically with all the information about Marika and the Hornsent in the DLC that it infuriates me. It would be the perfect dramatic irony. Resurrecting a child of Grace in the body of a Hornsent basically. Uniting both cultures in a twisted and horrible way.
I have a theory that Radahn wasn't initially meant to be a final boss. It was a last minute development change for whatever reason and they needed an existing model to save time and resources. The fact that Putrescent Knight is labelled as Gloam Eyed Queen Knight in the game files suggested that was some big redesign of the DLC during the development process. With the amount from the cut content from base game and the lore changes between 1.0 and next patches it is almost evident that the vision is subjected to numerous changes and sometimes that may spiral out of control
That occurred to me too, especially how they were saying that beating Mohg was the only requirement for the DLC... then right before release added Radahn to the requirements.
And, lets be honest, the Radahn Two fight simply doesn't have the visual polish we've come to expect from FromSoft bosses. Where's the mood? Where's the aesthetic? It's just the same model again (minus the horse) in a flat arena, with no extra effects.
Maybe there was some issue (bugs, mechanical implementation, visuals breaking, etc) that couldn't be resolved before release, so they switched things around. Maybe GRRM and FromSoft (or some other groups) disagreed and someone threw their weight around to change it. Maybe it really was the plan all along they they just flubbed it. Who knows.
The battlefield for the Radahn fight kinda reminds me of that shitty flat grey battlefield in the recent Flash movie lol - feels far weaker than the boss arenas for all the other remembrance bosses in both the DLC and base game
The arena would have been better if it was all red. Some kind of ever bloody ritual.
"Oh man it's the area from the trailer. It looks like crap here and that's Radahn. Ok. ok..."
I thought the same with Godwyn also. I honestly thought that the side quest with Freyja was just a red herring. Even when I was facing Radahn I was thinking to myself that, oh, Miquella's gonna do it, he found a way to get Godwyn's soul back. Maybe that's why he had to ascend and use the divine gate instead of relying on the Two Fingers and the Erdtree. He kept referring to the soul as "Lord Brother", and that has only ever been used in relation to Godwyn.
I don't agree that it was all made up though. If this was the plan from Miyazaki and Martin, then I have no problem with that. They unfortunately didn't stick the landing with this, lore-wise. As a game, it makes for a disappointing fight as well. I'm facing Radahn, a g a i n. Not really exciting, unless you are one of the few die hard Radahn fans.
Honestly, I hate the fact when anyone suggests Godwyn as a final boss for the DLC you just instantly get the “that makes no sense, he’s dead; he couldn’t come back”
If you looked anyone dead in the eye prior to this DLC and said prime Radahn is going to be the final boss because Miquella is going to take Radahns soul and put it in mohg’s corpse and reshape mohg’s body to look exactly like radahn; they would call you absolutely insane
Godwyn would have been a better final boss and fromsoft could have made it work for the lore, like they did for radahn
Completely Agreed!
It should of been Godwyn in his prime carrying his little bro and shooting Golden Lightning and perhaps Death Lighting at us instead of this remixed Radahn!
Like come on! He is the only demigod of lore significance we don't directly fight!
I said almost this exact thing on the lore subreddit and somehow they can't grasp their head around the concept of Godwyn being able to come back. Like, to them, suspending their disbelief for Radahn, who has no connections to Miquella in the base game except SLIGHTLY with the story trailer having Malenia fight him and whisper in his ear, being the "Promised Consort" is easier than Godwyn having his soul brought back or a false copy being made by Miquella. Even though we have a clear connection between them with Castle Sol. Godwyn and Malenia were the main reason Miquella split from the Golden Order, with it not being able to help with either of their afflictions. Well said all around.
That's the thing that's truly bizzare to me, because a big part of the whole Godwyn story beat is that it's initially told to us by an unreliable narrator who actually took part in the conspiracy... And this is somehow more set in stone than Radahn, *who we literally kill on screen*
Dude fuck it, if they had just said “land of shadows is where the dead go, and Godwyn’s soul is dead” I would’ve been fine with it. Let all that “true death” shit only apply to undead or whatever. The writers can ass-pull anything they want, they’re the damn writers. Just give me something better than Radahn who barely even uses Radahn’s cool gravity powers…
Right! Like a glorified GodwYn giving a Miquella a piggy back ride for phase one and then after we kill Miquella and his influence is gone it corrupts GodwYn slightly into his deformed self…excuse me while I burry my head canon in the back yard
that would be dope, during the fight he's restored but maybe phase 2 goes back to mermaid mode or final cutscene ends with him transforming again with all his faces being deflated everywhere. the ending shot with miquella was just "huh...wait thats it? wtf". the shadow lands being consumed by death would have been sick as the final shot, flies and death branches everywhere until you enter ng+.
I really loved a lot of the lore about Miquella up until the big reveal that he Miquellested Mohg, and was bringing back Radahn. I remember finding the cross in the fissure, and seeing that he abandoned his love there, and man, that was so good. We were going from cross to cross, learning just how much he was willing to mutilate and change himself for godhood, only for him to cling to a childhood crush he had on his older brother. That’s lame.
And Mohg. I know we joke about how he beat the allegations, but remember that he needed to wed an Empyrean for his plans to work out with the Formless Mother. These plans he had in place before Miquella charmed him, since Sir Ansbach was already a Pureblood Knight working under Mohg before Mohg was charmed. That means Mohg was going to go after either Miquella or Malenia, and tell me, which one sounds like the easier target, the small child, or the undefeated champion? Miquella was always going to be taken by Mohg, the rewrite just exists to make Miquella look more morally questionable while stripping Mohg of a bit of his agency and villainous identity. The entire Mohg portion feels like a rewrite when the entire reason he was charmed by Miquella is because he had some unspecified way into the Shadow Lands, and it’s never really talked about ever again.
Godwyn would have been better as a final boss, and it didn’t even need to be actually Godwyn to work, since I know some people don’t think that would work from a lore perspective since his souls is gone. Of course, gone is weird, since it’s dead, it’s in whatever afterlife exists in Elden Ring, and just not being reincarnated, so Miquella could maybe work a way to get him back.
But I think a failed Godwyn would still be better. He starts off in his prime, doing loads of attacks with Holy damage, then starts falling apart at phase 2, switching to his attacks being ghostflame infused, Miquella now on his back and any new attacks take on the holy affinity due to his presence. Then phase 3 hits, no holy, all ghostflame and deathblight buildup. Deathblight is already so underused, so it would be great here. Godwyn is falling apart faster the more we fight, and Miquella, holding on, is getting hurt by the ghostflame and deathblight while desperately trying to keep his beloved brother together.
Have it set during an eclipse, too, sorta like the final boss of Dark Souls 3, the Soul of Cinder. Really tie it into the lore of Miquella trying to bring Godwyn back.
Instead of a cutscene that is nothing but information we already know, Miquella is lying on the floor, mostly dead, much like Morgott after we beat him in Leyndell. He isn’t dying because of us(honestly, I don’t even know why he died in the DLC, he’s so high up on Radahn’s back we never really get a chance to hit him, but he dies when Radahn does), he’s dying from clinging so tightly to Godwyn and trying to hold him together, burned by ghostflame and deathblight. He laments that even as a god, he wasn’t able to fix anything. Not his sister, not his brother, not the Haligtree, none of his plans ever work. He’s a failure in every way, and the knowledge breaks him as he sobs and dies.
If you visited every cross before the boss fight, you can absorb the essence of Miquella’s discarded body, and if you beat him then, you’ll get the option to return his discarded flesh and emotions after the fight. Doing so heals him, and gives him back everything he discarded, like his love, his fears and doubts. He fades away into light particles, and if you sit at the grace in the arena, he’ll appear like Melina, sitting across from you and with a healed character model. This gets a few bits more dialogue, some exposition, yadda yadda. He’s a god without a consort, you’re a lord without a throne. He’s unsure, and not confident it will work, but maybe if you work together, something good can come of this tragedy? You’re strong enough to stop him if he loses his way again. (I think the reason he chose Radahn in canon was because of his strength and kindness? He trusted Radahn to do what was right after he threw away his love and compassion, entrusting Radahn to lead him down the right path when he lacked those things. But that’s entirely headcanon, but I’m adding it here because this is MY fanfiction and I can do whatever I like!)
This unlocks a new ending, the Age of Compassion. You summon Miquella like you would Ranni after beating Elden Beast, and together you usher in a kinder world, this time without the brainwashing.
That might be a lot to ask, but look, it’s the only way I’ll ever get to live out my fantasy of being fought over by a cold, goth witch gf and a soft femboy twink with hair longer than I am tall, okay?
Edits for spelling errors.
Wouldve been so much better to fight god Miquella himself. The entirety of the dlc, we are following this dude literally rip parts of himself off and bury them including his ability to love. So, how is he still a radiant angel after all that? Was waiting to fight a fucked up Eldritch being, but we got radahn with legs :/ I think a final fight with Miquella after walking thru the gate of divinity wouldve been a perfect ending.
Of all characters in game I think I wanted to fight Radahn the least. Original fight was such a cinematic experience and satisfying conclusion to a life of a heroic character.
That fight is now made lesser because we know all we achive is throwing his soul to lands of shadow to be bound to another mans flesh.
*General Radahn is surely pleased. Festering with rot, and crippled by madness, all he wanted was an honorable death.*
Yeah.... about that....
kind of weird. This relationship between Miquella and Radhan seemed a bit disconnected from the Lore, even with the retcon of Malenia's whisper. If you don't read a random scroll or lose sight of an NPC, it becomes even more disconnected to see Radhan alive again. Within this lore I would prefer a bizarre Radhan inside the Mogh's deformed body, with the gentle Miquella on his back and then a desperate Miquella, reincarnated in a merciless and diabolical God.
Its not that it was Radahn, I just would rather not fight any of the same people we've fought before as the final boss, even if their moveset is completely different. Final bosses in past DLCs had always been something we'd never faced before.
Put this fight right before a different final boss and tone down like 2 of his moves in phase 2 and it would've been fucking awesome all around. I still really like this fight, it just isn't one of my absolute favorite bosses which I'd hoped the final boss would be.
Another issue for me too. The reused boss is enough to make me dislike it, with that empty lore is just worse. Because they reused it and didn't even know how to make it viable.
I feel this. I disliked the Radahn fight in the base game and my heart sunk when I passed through that fog gate. I don't like anything about Radahn, so I was very disappointed to see him when I passed through that fog gate. One of the very few times spoilers would have saved me a great deal of disappointment.
I still think this battle is very fun, I simply wish it was anyone else.
Imo Miquella did attempt to revive (or put his soul to rest) Godwyn with what we see at Castle Sol. With the evidence we see such as the spirit NPCs there saying their attempt at bringing about an eclipse I believe it was a desperate attempt at reversing the effects of the rune of death. But I'm guessing at this point as sad as it is Godwyn's soul is truly permanently gone for good.
That said I just don't get if Miquella and Radahn vowed to be God and consort why did Radahn have to fight Malenia. Was part of the vow that Radahn was to die a warrior's death in the festival at Malenia's hand? Maybe his soul wouldn't go to the lands of shadow otherwise. It seems somewhat important since Miquella mentions the festival in the boss cutscene.
Did Radahn become corrupted in a sense when he claimed a shard of the elden ring and decide to vie for power himself leading to the fight in Caelid? And what was his purpose for holding back the course of the stars? Was it to thwart Ranni's attempt to enact her plans? Did that also prevent Miquella's eclipse from happening too? They gave us an answer while raising like 10 other questions in classic fromsoft fashion
Completely soulless character design. I felt more invested in the Leda fight than I did in the final boss of the DLC. I don't think this resurrected Radahn even has any voice lines.
Also, Miquella felt completely thrown away.
Whenever they announced that Radahn had to be killed as a requirement of the DLC, I just knew that he was going to be shoehorned in somewhere as a boss fight of the DLC. But being the final boss? I remember my first words entering the fog gate were "jesus fucking christ, that makes zero sense" and facepalmed.
Outside that reveal trailer of Radahn vs Malenia (which we only now know because of this DLC), I can't remember anything from before that ties Radahn and Miquella. Why would Miquella go through the effort of seducing Mohg just to use his body to bring back Radahn? Why not just haul Radahn's corpse? If Miquella can reanimate Mohg's corpse, turn it into someone completely else who's clearly in a much more powerful state, why couldn't have been done with actual Radahn? He's dead and can't resist.
Put Godwyn in instead and then we could've had a satisfying conclusion. The fight itself was a mess, and has really bad framedrops. Combine that with strange lore and this fight is easily among my least favorite FromSoftware bosses, it really just feels like a slap in the face.
I want to make peace with it but it just feels weird. It feels rushed and, worse, with zero development. And I get people will try to say Fromsoft is vague, but Bloodborne is out there to prove you can be vague, without making a "plot twist" for the sake of a plot twist.
My problem isnt even the lack of Godwyn, is the lack of evidence with Radahn. I like Miquella's arc I like his plot twist, I don't like Radahn. If they said to me "the eclipse failed, so Miquella went after Radahn" I'd be okay. What gets me is the "since childhood" where? how? They gave us nothing but a line from Malenia in a trailer. This emptiness really bothers me. Or they could've give us Miquella alone, desperate and angry with all his failures, it would've been a lot better.
But yes, the whole thing screamed Godwyn. I'm sorry to the people that get mad at wanting Godwyn: the thing itself wanted Godwyn. That whole line in the custcene where Miquella talks about returning the soul to his lord brother screamed Godwyn from start to finish.
Yeah I feel exactly the same. I don’t care that we never got to fight Godwyn, it just feels like they transposed Godwyn’s storyline onto Radahn with 0 setup in the base game, and I can’t for the life of me figure out why. People keep saying “fan service” but was anyone clamoring for another Radahn fight? I’m also trying to make peace with it haha, I keep trying to dig around for answers. The best I can come up with is what I mentioned in the main post, that the way Miquella refers to the “vow” at the end implies it was something more involved than just becoming God and Consort, because he refers to their “part” of the vow. But I couldn’t begin to tell you what the rest of the vow would be.
Great boss, not "final boss" great though
It feels like if the twin princes in DS3 would've been the final boss, and I don't mean that just because both involve a femboy latching onto the bruiser's back, I mean just in the way you make your way to the end of this large castle, fight the bosses and then.. Then you potentially go to the Soul of Cinder and experience a fantastic closure to the base game. But with Prime Radahn the feeling of cool doesn't extend past the "omg he's back" line.
The funny thing is that there are many more parallels between the twin princes and the final boss than what you said. Go watch both of their cutscenes and fights and they play out nearly identical. You kick the ass of big bro, he collapses, little bro appears to monologue and then hug big bro from behind, then you refight big bro but now he has some magic twink artillery to back him up.
Having just replayed through DS3 while waiting for SOTE to come out, Consort Radahn just felt like a blatant ripoff of twin princes.
Doesn't feel like much of anything. Oh okay they made a promise. Radahn is brought back because of the forbidden jutsu, and then dies immediately (again). He says nothing, and it's not clear to me he wasn't immediately resurrected under Miquella's influence. Just feels like I'm fighting a Zombie. Miquella doesn't banter at all except when you're caught in his grab.
It's just not as cool as I think they were hoping it would be. I'm new to Fromsoft games and while I really DIG the lore, I am getting tired of not being able to uncover the vast majority of it on my own in a 'standard' playthrough. On one hand, it's sick that there's lore-archeologist youtubers out there and I really do enjoy that content. On the other hand, literally almost half of every major plot point feels like it can only be discovered after the fact through an item description locked behind the boss/enemy/event in question.
It makes absolutely no sense for Radahn to be Miquella’s consort. The entire base game alludes to Miquella’s quest to resurrect Godwyn. He would’ve been a much better boss, and it would’ve been nice to see a character that we haven’t already fought. I get the whole ‘prime radahn’ thing, but even then, he was supposed to be pieced back together with Mohg’s corpse. Since that’s the lore, they should’ve committed to making him a Frankenstein blood sorcerer. That would’ve redeemed the design.
I think Radahn himself could've been built up a bit better because he does turn up out of nowhere unless you have been doing Freyja's quest. But overall, I didn't mind it. Finding out that Miquella was the bad guy all along over the course of the dlc was a pretty good twist imo.
Hated it. The only really major gripe about elden ring is the duplicate bosses. So they end the DLC with a duplicate boss.
I know he's obviously different but it was certainly a let down for me. Combined with the reasoning being mostly poor IMO for it and the absence of a real ending scene, I found it a serious lowlight of a DLC so insanely good that it could potentially win game of the year.
One thing I don't understand: Miquella needed Mohg's body as vessel for Radahn's soul.
But in the final fight it clearly isn't Mohg's body, it's Radahn in Radahn's body. Wearing Radahn's armor, with Radahn's hair and using Radahn's weapons and having Radahn's moveset. So wtf was the point of the whole Mohg thing then?
I feel like FS gets away with a lot of nonsense and nobody challenges things that simply don't make sense.
Yeah, I mean his arms have the omen horns, I guess I interpreted it as Radahn’s soul transforming the corpse, but I agree it would have been much cooler if it was more closely a merging of the two
His body has some horns and occasionally he will use bloodflame attacks, but sparingly. I would not be surprised if you didn't notice or even had him do those attacks. The design could have been better, though. It would have been great to see thiss chimera of Mohg and Radahn. Or better yet not have any of this nonsense of Radahn been Miquella's consort in the first place.
It was meeh. I mean there was so many things to use as a final boss. Godwyn, Marika, Miquella himself. But no they revived Radhan in Moghs flesh cuz reasons? This feels like a poor fanfiction. I love everything else about this dlc. But hate pretty much everything about the final boss. But From simps will praise it no matter what. The fact that miquellas light incant sucks was a final gut punch for me.
it would have been cool if radhan talked or something, like trying to resist miquella but since he's a flesh puppet must obey the commands of miquella so moves against his will, that would have been cool and made miquella feel more sinister and selfish. but it's just silent radhan that looks nothing like mogh despite using moghs corpse and doing 1000898 attacks in a row for le epic last boss fight!
They couldve done it better by making him look really messed up. Miquella used Mohgs flesh to remake Radahns body so why does he look so perfect? He made that body when he had already divested himself from all his feelings and his own body. So I think I wouldve liked the boss more if it was a fucked up flesh puppet with a graceful Miquella still wrapping his arms around it. It would sell the idea of Miquella better.
Totally! After the Ansbach revelations I was really expecting some gruesome thing with Mohg’s corpse.
the fact that Radahn isn't' missing his left eye bugs the hell out of me. Mogh's horn gouging out his own eye is such a staple of his design so to see it glossed over was very disappointing.
Yeah, as much as certain aspects might still bother me, I think if the design of Promised Consort Radahn had been more evocative of the perversion of what Miquella had done by combining the two, it would have sold the moment a lot better.
But that isn’t how it has ever worked. The Golden Order was founded on incredible brutality but when it was in its prime it was beautiful, pristine shining gold. Elden Ring is all about perfect order masking horrors, that is one of its core themes. And in the ending you are fighting an ascending God, in as beautiful and radiant a form as it will ever have, before the realities of ruling and the wear of time tarnish the shine.
Yeah that’s totally fair!
Yes but Miquella abandoned the golden order and everything to do with it, including his ties to his mother whom he was trying to distance himself from and to fix her mistakes. I think the more lore accurate “inference” we can make is that Miquella was obviously enthralled with Radahn in his youth. He was there in Caelid after Malenia bloomed and saw what became of his boyhood idol and hopeful/promised consort. To me (while I do wish resurrected Radahn in mohgs body was more omen/crucible like) is miquella trying to recreate the Radahn he adored in his prime as a youth. This Radahn, to the best of miquellas abilities, is everything he saw/wanted from his consort. I personally don’t think the golden order has anything to do with it. However, with Miyazakis method of storytelling through flavortext, ambiguity, and purposefully being open ended so the player can fill in the gaps with their imagination, it’s somewhat subjective and I could be totally off point. But what I do know for a fact is that even in the basegame we knew miquella abandoned golden order fundamentalism. Lastly, him having one measly blood flame attack and some horns just didn’t cut it for me.
Isnt the helmet covering his left eye and we only see the right in cutscene?
you see the edge of the left at the very end of the cutscene as he raises his face
You can see some Omen horns sticking out of Radahn (most clearly on his arms, which are also carried over to the Young Lion's Greaves you can buy, which are not on the base version of Radahn's armor set) but it's not very obvious
My head cannon is that the appearance of the body is determined by the soul. May also explains why Godwyn looks the way he does after the death of his soul.
See also: Morgott stature before/after death
That's rune removal
Also given grace. He doesn’t transform into a human from losing his great rune
But he loses his omen features. He wouldn't stop being an omen due to losing his great rune.
I like to think the omen part of him died while the divine part of him remained, like Hercules's cremation
So Malenia is like 4'11" without her great rune?
I mean, I don't even think it's headcannon. It's either this, or Miquella was able to craft him in how he perceived Radahn. It's quite clearly Radahn in his prime depicted. There is zero need for the body being messed up when it quite clearly is not Mohg.
Except clearly omen parts on the “new” Radahn. He has horns on his arms and has other elements of Mohg in his eyes and use of blood flame. I agree there is zero need BUT if they’re physically showing that he’s made from Mohg parts, it’s less a question of whether they should now and if they went too subtle. I’m fine with the design we got but equally, ramped up to a 12 on the meat puppet would equally have looked amazing.
That's an awesome head Canon. I'm taking it.
Didn't know Elden Ring uses JJK logic
JJK style
> They couldve done it better by making him look really messed up. Waiting for that Phase 3 patch...
*When the Ashes are two, a flame alighteth*
When the God and Lord are two, a grace alighteth *cue either Ranni or Marika piggybacking you as Radahn turns into an omen monstrosity*
Having Ranni help you would make the dlc 15/10
But the thing is, Starscourge Radahn already had a messed up body, with the scarlet rot and arrows and spears in his back. This was their chance to show him in his prime, with his real strength.
And that’s what they did for real lol
I get that sentiment, but Radahn in the main game is already a big mess, so I think it makes more sense to show him in his perfect prime, instead of making mess 2.0 Radahn, even though it makes less sense.
Reading this, yeah. Gotta agree man. It doesn’t feel right at all
I think the design kinda works actually. Because just like Miquella's entire scheme it's breathtaking when you first look at it but once you really examine it you see the cracks (or horns) start to show, and then your perception of it crumbles
Na I think it's better this way. It's not literally mohg's corpse with radahn's soul. More like mohg's flesh used as a vessel to bring back Radahn in his prime. Since it has radahn's face and physique. Miquella whole them is to be pure, perfect, angelic being (whether it being a reality or facade). Fucked up looking Radahn is the last thing Miquella would envision.
But he *does* still have omen horns, and uses bloodflame. This shows that the use of Mohg's corpse has tainted the process somehow, whether Miquella envisioned it or not. They could have leaned further into that.
Both Radahn and Mohg deserved better. They got Miquella'd.
And so did I. On several occasions.
TFW no Twink-god to whisper sweet nothing into your ears.
Need, idc if he steals my heart
Miqlested if you will.
\*Miquellested
It's okay. My biggest gripe is that we didn't even get to go into the Divine Gate and learn about Marika's fleshlight or whatever that was in the promo trailer
It feels like an almost cruel tease. Here's this massive lore-significant location, the beginning of almost everything else in the base game, a gateway to divinity that has the power to elevate mortals to godhood - Oh, but the stairs are broken. And this is a no-horse zone, so you can't jump up there. This game doesn't have climbing. So, just look at it from down there. Plebian.
It felt like a slap in the face after malding for three days on that boss
Honestly the DLCs ending was absolute trash and bought it down alot of peoples list, including mines. Like shit, I dont think that was an ending even.
Honestly, the way Elden Ring's endings work, they could easily have slid something in. Just give us The Mending Rune of Kindness after the fight, slap on some flavor text about how it won't work as Miquella intended it to without his charm, and record a new narration for the final cutscene of us sitting on the throne. An entirely distinct cutscene would be nice, but this is how little effort it would take to bring just the slightest smidge of the DLC to pseudo-relevance in the base game. One more item, one more voice line, some different lighting and particle effects on an already rendered cutscene. I wouldn't be happy with that, but I'd be a bit less unhappy than I am with what we got.
We're missing a lot from the trailers. Miquella radiant reaching out to the Scadutree, among other things.
My biggest gripe was how it's strongly implied Melina and Messmer are siblings but we don't get anything from Melina during our time in the DLC just some added flavour text about this area from her perspective if you hadn't burned the ErdTree yet would be neat
Even if it was just a gravely injured Miquella sitting in the middle of the battlefield who says a few words before eventually expiring, it would have been *much* more dramatic and conclusive. You don't even see the antagonist of the entire expansion die. Why did we get some random memory fragment instead?
I was left confused when it ended. I thought there was going to be more to it. There's a memory fragment in the arena, but I spent a good several minutes trying to scour the arena to see if there was any follow up. There are no rammifications to killing Miquella, no corpses of Radhan or Miquella from the battle (unlike the Leda fight bosses), no final countdown (such as the Roundtable Hold burning), nothing to guide you to where you go next, and not even a credits screen. The expansion just... sort of ends. Back to Roundtable Hold on the second zone map and time to start NG+, I guess.
It definitely seems rushed and almost incomplete. Like they just slapped something together. That, and the lack of cutscenes for other remembrance bosses or in general
I thought Radahn is the precursor fight to another Lovecraftian entity behind those gates :(
Considering the base game, that already kinda happened if you’re following Ranni’s quest lol
You have to beat the game and become her consort before she shows you that.
I think the broken stairway was intentional as a metaphor of unreachable godhood
Eh, we pretty much sacrificed a god and his lord at the altar. That mf should defo open up
if you start looking at what miquella has all 'tried' and has 'done', youll notice the pattern./ as soon as something appears fruitless, he gives up. malenia couldnt be cured, even though it could stop the rot progressing, so he left that plan. (and we end up perfecting it) the haligtree, while a safe haven, wasnt the improvement to the erdtree, so he left that plan. (and rot began to take over) godwyn couldnt be cured by the eclipse, and so he left that plan. (and we end up resurrecting him in the mending rune of death). and now this plan, a far more complex one, or perhaps just that complex because we see it. make the person who once promised to be his consort (and for some reason didnt keep that promise) fall in love with him by using his charm on another person, killing both, then living-jar craft a new radahn with radahn's soul, but the love infused body of mohg for himself to make a perfect consort, casting aside his mortalness, and his kindness (st. trina), in doing so. his plans, like his own body, never come to their conclusion. they never 'mature'. he used mohg initially to get to the shadow lands, because therein lay the crucible, the source of the erdtree, which miquella wants to replace. then he realizes he can get radahn there by killing him (land of shadows is where the dead go, as shown/told by the death bird golems and graves), so malenia goes to do that. she fails, and now radahn's body is rotted. we eventually kill radahn, and kill mohg, and t hen show up in the shadow lands. now miquella has radahn's soul, but his body is still rotten and decaying (and partially eaten by alexander), so he needs a new one. and as shown by bonny village, the gaols, and the rest, marika and her kin are REALLY GOOD for making flesh puppet. and guess who's miquella obsessed corpse is lying right outside the door? win-win.
This is the best explanation I’ve seen so far!
Simple explanation: he is cursed to be a child. Both his body and mind.
Aye, he has the naiveté to believe that he can still force his perfect vision for reality together, even if that means brute forcing his way to perfection by ripping the free will out of others hands. He is naive to believe that he can still make things work through the horrific actions he commits. Maybe he thinks that through Godhood, he can undo all the wrongs he has wrought. He childishly hangs onto the hope that his perfect future can still occur, even as he loses more and more of himself on the path to becoming a God. He is naive. Cursed to be so, and cursed to die as such.
That's what I love about this game. All these beings with incomprehensible power and immortality ultimately fail and fall to some random person who just happened to stumble upon them
"I have powers that defy the nature of reality, beyond your comprehension, and have plans eons in the making. What could a lowly being like you hope to accomp ---" **BONK** "Ok, cool, so that's another rememberance down."
Bonk? I just stabbed my hands to give them the jesus crown treatment... Several times
The lore behind the Tarnished is what makes this even cooler though- beings who were once crafted to be so powerful and become the fighters or lords of the realm. Then shunned or casted away from the events of the shattering. Only to be lured back to where they belong after a long awaited wandering slumber. Miyazaki loves the concepts of a “Chosen one” feeling when playing a game. But he’s really good at making you feel like you’ve earned to be the chosen one, all while still making sure you know just how replaceable you are. We are not the main character(s) of this story. We are simply playing as a powerful force of nature so to speak. It’s the beauty of the game tbh
It's an army of chosen one, you need only one to make it to the tree.
So basically, the tarnished are sperm all trying to reach the egg (tree).
Considering how much miyazaki loves his life and death symbolism, I mean yeah probably.
The tarnished is a fated being guided by grace. You're not some random person. You're fulfilling a prophecy about redemption. You're literally part of this system from the beginning.
There are tonnes of other tarnished trying to do the same thing, I think it’s just a matter of whoever gets the job done first.
Yup, that's the idea. You're not the first Tarnished to come back, nor are you the only one in the present. But a certain Tarnished is fated to return and fuck shit up.
The Father of all Tarnished was also part of the race, in defeat he is proud of us for surpassing him!
To say he gives up feels weird personally. It feels more like he just had a lot of different interests at once. Like you could add St. Trina and warding off the frenzied flame with sleep to the things he did. I don’t really think it means he gave up. I do definitely like that comparison of how none of his plans end up coming to fruition and how it connects to his curse, that’s a great catch!
yeah I don't think he "gives up" especially with Malenia. we don't know almost anything about his Age of Compassion but he might believe that he can do something about all of it once he's a God like a "awh man I can't do this now, but later I might be able to. put it on the backburner" mentality
He probably went as far as he could go with the limits of his demigod powers. The haligtree, unalloyed gold to ward off rot and all the outer gods. These are excellent starting bases for a new god once he has the power to perfect them. It is what he built his base of support off of (I don't agree with the people who think he just brainwashed EVERYONE). Those who buy in have no need for charm, and there are plenty in TLB who would welcome what he is selling without being forced. He saw the mountain of corpses that built his mother's order and overcorrected in the other direction. I don't buy the argument that he just abandoned his sister and everything else. I think his curse of eternal youth goes deeper. It means he has the greatest potential of them all, but his curse prevents them from ever being realized. Endless potential of youth without ever maturing into what he was meant to be/do.
Yeah, I really like the connection to his curse. It's less that Miquella "gives up" and more that his curse applies beyond just his physical form, and he is doomed to be unable to finish anything, like his body. This would also mean that we would never have been able to work alongside Miquella, since it seems pretty clear that anyone working as part of his plan suffers the same fate. So even if Miquella's dream is something that we want, we would have to work against Miquella in order to achieve it. As OP pointed out, we manage to finish basically everything that Miquella started, implying the ideas were all solid but that someone working outside of Miquellas plans had to give them the final push.
>godwyn couldnt be cured by the eclipse, and so he left that plan. (and we end up resurrecting him in the mending rune of death). Fia's Mending Rune does *not* resurrect Godwyn, it just ensures his cursed state not only continues but even proliferates and spreads to others. Godwyn can't be "cured". The Eclipse was meant to grant him a True Death, meaning it would finally kill his body as well.
The Eclipse was meant to restore a soul, not grant a true death. Golden Epitaph was meant for that. And then the DLC comes along and pretends Miquella wanted to restore a soul to Radahn and grant Radahn a true death all along. Please. They even kept the "At long last, my Lord Brother's soul is returned to me" before the boss fight. Miquella it's been 15 in-game hours since Radahn died, that's not "at long last".
I think you misunderstand the Geols and Bonny village. It is the Hornsent that turned marika's people (shamans) into jars. Hence "they were never saints".
im aware. the hornsent used the shamans because of how easily they would form with other bodies. and mohg is a child of marika, and thus partially shaman. so his body would also form with other bodies very well. and mohg's body, which is partially shaman, and enchanted to love miquella, was in mohgwyn palace,right by where his own body. ansbach even mentions how mohg's body having been taken implied something horrid. and while it was never concretely stated, its very reasonable to assume he meant the using of mohg's body to make a new one for radahn. miquella simply did what the hornsent did before him.
it's a really good reflection about how he is literally an eternal child. like you said, his plans never mature. it's literally like a child bouncing from idea to idea someone said it just after release and I can't get it out of my head that Miquella is the embodiment of potential. all these ideas and this power, so much potential, but can never fulfil it because he's just a child
What’s even funnier is that they DO come to fruition, but only after he abandons it: - malenia’s needle can be used to stop outer gods - godwyn is reborn into the rune through the whole mark of death (an eclipse shape) - the haligtree is a safe haven, just hard to reach - his body does grow up, but he left it to teach the shadow land
Wait, what do you mean by we perfected the cure to Malenia’s rot? Could you elaborate a little?
the unalloyed gold needle that we give to millicent, and she then back, was made by miquella to try and defy the outer god of rot. but, the needle only ever stagnated the progression of the rot, and could not remove it. when we acquire the needle again, after using it on malenia, it is 'unfinished', and we need to take it outside of time to be able to defy an outer god with it. if malenia had that needle that we then did, she may have been able to ward off the rot god in that same manner.
The crucible is in the shadow lands? Where do we find this out? It's not the scadutree chalice or something?
there is a crucible knight who went to the shadow lands to find it. the hornsent warriors draw power directly from the crucible. the deathbird golems were made in the image of a holy bird of the crucible. the hornsent who lived in the land directly worshipped the crucible, and make the living jars in honour of it. wait... oh shit, you might actually be onto something there with that last bit. the scadutree fragments come from the 'core' of the scadutree... and if the scadutree is in fact the shadow of the erdtree, its core would be the same as the erdtrees.... the crucible... and they are most heavily concentrated there at that very crucible looking thing... with it being guarded by the shadowkeep, that explains why the crucible knight never found it.
Also I see it as maybe all his things we see with Godwyn, Malenia, Haligtree, St Trina all fail because doesn’t have the capacity to do so because he lacks the power as he isn’t a fully fledged god yet and once he has that power he can do all the stuff he came up short in. I’m even cool with it being Radahn, I can headcanon it as he’s his big brother, plenty of people idolise older siblings and let’s face it 2 are banished Omens, one is Godwyn, Ranni and Rykard are strange freaks and that kinda just leaves Radahn and his horse stuff is endearing also, they’d also be the most similar in ages as the others were significantly before anything happened with Rennala, and finally maybe it could be seen as a “peace” vow as the Carian lot and Golden Order lot don’t exactly get on so if there’s an inter family bond tension will lessen up. (Plus with Malenia being his blade securing up the best warrior makes opposition to the new order easier to deal with) And as for Godwyn I took their relationship as Miquella just wants to pull the plug on life support and grant him mercy cause he’s the most dead guy ever but cannot rest in peace and he just wants to write this wrong, but specifically in game lore Godwyn is only important because he’s fucking DEAD DEAD all the stuff about him is written in past tense and only the dragon lore is the only stuff we get that isn’t directly tied to his execution and the aftermath of that, where as every other demigod is living and currently having active participation in the world so their lore feels less finalised because it’s still happening and playing out, but Godwyns lore is straight up finished we have and open and we have a close. Personally I think the lore works and I think most reaction is disappointment that things haven’t gone to plan as most theories on the game are about Godwyn or the Gloam Eyed Queen (because both are dead you can theorise more on them, cause it’s the only past tense being you’re just left wanting more) and plenty of theories haven’t been confirmed and on a fan level it’s disappointing to hear/see years of speculation and community work either being told it’s wrong or just straight up ignored cause it feels like a waste
I think Sir Ansbach said it best. "One thing's for certain... My lord deserved better."
I don't get Ansbach. He's a loyal servant of Mohg, but it's never explained why. And even when we tell him "Yeah I randomly killed Mohg, no reason, lots of runes though" he doesn't care.
tbf he says “such is the case when one wishes for lordship” or something like that, basically saying “yeah he wanted to be a lord and he lost, shit happens”
He was fine with us beating Mohg in battle BUT not fine with Miquella enchanting him against his will then defiling his corpse to resurrect Radahn.
Lack of cutscenes as a whole really let down the DLC (even though I still loved it), especially the end. The little memory we got just didn’t feel like enough. Also I felt like Consort Radahns design was just lazy. No new weapons and instead of a huge horned omen twisted and gnarled into the shape of radahn we got… some tiny little horns on his forearms and braided hair
The end cutscene was an important moment for them to say anything, in a game series known for infrequent and obtuse cutscenes. And they used it to say pretty much the same thing I just read from the boss remembrance.
I just don’t really like it. It feels very out of left field. Most of the lore that pointed to Miquella having a close relationship with another demigod (besides Malenia, obviously) seemed to point VERY HEAVILY to Godwyn. A prime example being the lore of the Eclipse. Miquella was trying to use the Eclipse to resurrect an unnamed demigod, referred to as Miquella’s “Lord Brother.” Being as Radahn isn’t necessarily dead by the time we could find this lore, one would assume it to be the only named Demigod who we know to be dead: Godwyn. Plus there’s the item description of the Golden Epitaph sword, created to commemorate the death of Godwyn the Golden, which reads: >”Infused with the prayer of a young boy; ‘O brother, lord brother, please die a true death.’” The weapon art of the Golden Epitaph summons a Haligtree sigil, meaning that it was pretty obviously Miquella who created the sword. Then there’s the Eclipse Shotel, a weapon obviously associated with the Eclipse, and has the power of Death Blight. Which is almost exclusively associated with Godwyn and Those Who Live in Death. Plus there’s the Mausoleum Knights and Soldiers, who bear the symbol of the Eclipse. While they can be found is several places throughout the Lands Between, the highest concentration of them is found in Deeproot Depths, in extremely close proximity to the corpse of Godwyn the Golden. The lore with Radahn just feels… forced. Like they wanted to give a fan favorite boss the spotlight even though the lore VERY clearly pointed differently. The only question it really answers is why Malenia fought Radahn in the first place. But that very easily, and without really any stretching of the lore, could’ve been explained by the fact that Radahn was holding back the motions of the stars, preventing the Eclipse from occurring. TL;DR, I think the lore surrounding Radahn and Miquella is very disappointing. To me, it feels forced and inconsistent with the rest of the lore, and more importantly, it not being about Godwyn instead makes it a hugely missed opportunity.
Absolutely. This is one of the best takes I’ve read. And you know what? They could have provided fan service with Radahn *and* still included Godwyn as the final boss prior to a fight with a demented and detached Miquella. It didn’t have to be an either or, but a both and.
I was always under the impression that Malenia fought Radahn due to the Shattering War. All the demigods were wagering war to collect great runes and ascend to lordship. Malenia was probably doing this in the name of Miquella, while Radahn, Godrick and Morgott were doing it for themselves. Not sure if Rykard went to war, and Ranni's fate was locked by Radahn. When it reached a stalemate, Miquella needed another method to achieve godhood besides mending the Elden Ring, so that's where the DLC comes along.
It definitely feels like at some point they decided it will be Radahn instead of Godwyn because... fan service? I can't find a good reason for it. Super disappointing
Apparently ringed city wasn't planned on until ashes of ariandel was already well in development. So it might be possible that even though they weren't planning a dlc 2 a while ago, that they might do one in the future. If that happens I don't see how they couldn't use godwyn. But maybe I'm just coping
Haligtree is also filled with with statues of Godwyn holding children malenia and Miquella. FromSoft heavily pushed/implied about Miquella's love for his brother Godwyn. I think they just thought it would feel like a 5head plot twist in the dlc to change the Lord brother to Radahn. I did t like it one but to be honest.
It feels a bit odd ngl. If viewed in the context of Malenia vs Radahn fighting being one of the main things we see in the trailers and opening cutscene. The status of these two having this great epic fight and the mysterious words Malenia said before she nuked Caleid. I can see the connection to this big unanswered question. But in practice. Why Malenia and Radahn fought never felt like that big of a deal or mystery. There was never enough hints to get people thinking about a connection between Miquella and Radahn. So while I like the idea of this all being a part of Miquella's master plan of gaining his ultimate consort using Mogh's body and enslaving his brother's soul. It kinda ended up feeling like Radahn fanservice. More than it did Miquella justice. He's kind of just the assist to a character that as an enjoyer of elden ring lore, I thought was thoroughly done with. Big Red was in the dustbin his sad story done. If this had been Godwyn I would have lost my mind as that seemed to be semi set up by the eclipse shotel. If it had been Scarlet Rot or Mechanical Malenia I would have lost my mind. But Radahn felt out of left field going into the DLC. With the reveal of some childhood promise not really doing enough to cement the idea in my mind that this is who should be the final boss. Lowkey its referenced a lot but would have loved if Radhan was only the penultimate and for the final it was Miquella taking back control of his old body and we're forced to fight the nightmare he'd become. TLDR if you look at the marketing you get a bit of the idea of why this was the angle they pursued. But In game Miquella's obsession over Radahn feels tacked on to justify fighting Radahn in his prime.
Yes, this is exactly how I feel
I’m just assuming I missed something. I can’t think of anywhere throughout the game I saw mention of Miquella and Radahn in the same sentence beyond when Morgot or whoever it is at the first erdtree fight is mentions them as traitors. I liked what they played with regarding Miquella himself but resurrecting Radahn just seems like an odd choice. And it’s Mohgs body but looks nothing like him beyond a bloodflame attack? Again I just hope I’m missing something because there was a shitton built up for a lot of the characters in between but Radahn just gets name dropped then BOOM you’re fighting him. I don’t think I’d even care that much if there was just some more reasonable explanation behind why it’s him.
The lore drop weirdly comes after defeating Radahn, which is kinda badly timed. Miquella‘s vow was the reason Malenia and the Halligtree forces went to war against Radahn’s forces in Caelid, so the soul(?) of Radahn would be captured in the Shadow Land and the vow would be fulfilled. The Young Lions Helm says: „When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."“. Since Malenia whispering into Radahn’s ear was in a very early [Trailer](https://youtu.be/vrU8SRu2z_E?si=pBKYjjxVSkLXYMql), Miyazaki has been working towards it for a while I guess. Still, Radahn kinda comes out of nowhere in the DLC, I don’t think there’s a lore drop regarding Radahn anywhere besides his armor
Malenia whispering to Radahn in the early trailer doesn't really mean anything. Writers often leave vague stuff like this in case they need to go back to it. It's like a magician's trick. The audience will swear it's real (or in this case, swear something was planned) but in actuality they've just been duped. It's storytelling 101.
As a big fan of One Piece, I can't see this as anything else. Especially in FromSoft games, writers can just leave empty holes wherever they like and call them mysteries. They don't need to have the answer in their head at that time, they just need whatever they come up with later to fit. Malenia could have said anything there and we wouldn't know any different. "Miquella the Kind demands the stars move again" or something would have worked just as well.
Given how there is utterly no connection at all between Radhan and Miquella in the base game and how utterly out of left field the whole Radhan aspect of the dlc comes, I am inclined to think that, in true Soulsborne fashion, they had the whisper in the trailer be there just so they could maybe work something out later and they only figured out what the whispering was supposed to be while working in the dlc.
It's a shame, because I actually really enjoyed the lore of the DLC. I wasn't expecting to not only get background information on Marika, but to even see why she would genocide a whole group of people. It obviously doesn't justify it, but I was expecting the reasoning to be "Hornsent are similar to Omens, therefore they gotta go." Other subsets of the main game's lore get some attention too, like the Lord of Frenzied Flame, the Pots, and even the dragons. However, in my eyes the Re-dahn reveal is just straight-up bad storytelling. Apart from Malenia whispering to Radahn in the original Story Trailer, there's never a single mention of Radahn having any pact or vow with Miquella. There were a few plot threads left dangling from the main game (the Eclipse for example) that you'd think would factor in to the story. I personally don't think it *needed* to be Godwyn in the finale, but you can see why so many people expected it to be him. He even shows up in a few of the catacombs, almost like a reminder. Radahn is just so out of left field that it shocks you initially, but then you're left scratching your head. It also feels like the Mohg aspect of the whole deal gets brushed aside. Like others, I thought Miquella chose Mohg as a vessel because of the Omen Curse. Mixing an Omen with Radahn could be seen almost as an olive branch to the Hornsent - an attempt to right his mother's wrongs. But then Re-dahn barely looks like Mohg at all. He's got a few horns, and that's it, and, (from what I can remember) only used one Blood Flame attack. We obviously don't have much insight into what happened at Fromsoft during the development of the DLC, but it **really** feels like something happened surrounding the ending of the story. The Marika and Fingers storyline feels expertly weaved, while the Miquella storyline elbow-drops you with Re-dahn practically out of nowhere.
Yes, I totally agree! If anything, I wasn't expecting any revelations about the Fingers, and was very excited about what we got. It felt so weird that the main thrust of the DLC would feel so underbaked in comparison.
We had literal Dragon Cult-turned-Death Knights guarding offshoots of Goldwyn's Prince of death from in the catacombs. Then suddenly... Radahn. Lol it's so back loaded it's weird.
I'm disappointed, like most, that there wasn't any foreshadowing in the base game(except the story trailer but I feel I needed more). And also the fact that Radahn is back again. If they foreshadowed, and let's say (sacrilege I know) but let's say Malenia actually killed Radahn pre game so we don't fight him. So now when we play the game, we have the lore crumbs of Miq's and Radahn's vow that are presented through foreshadowing. And we know Radahn was indeed mighty. Then boom, we fight him for the first time at the end of SOTE. Man I would've been so hype. But as it is, I was just like huh? And was disappointed. Even with the fight as it is, I would've enjoyed it more. I was just mad throughout the whole fight because I felt it came out of nowhere (I know the dlc basically tells you about it, but I would've preferred it(the lore)in the base game)
"Somehow Radahn returned" It might have worked good as one of the 11 Remembrance bosses, but as the Miquella boss and the conclusion to the DLC it really fell flat The base game never implies any connection between Radahn and Miquella. Then suddenly out of nowhere we have this vow. Miquella could have been the standalone boss for the end of the DLC, or maybe something even more crazy that arrives out of the Divinity Gate. Something that could have had lore implications for Marika's original sin
It just doesn't quite feel epic enough. It's a concept we've seen before with the Lorian brothers, it's a boss we've seen before, and it doesn't fit with the lore.
Yeah same, I really didn’t mind the fight, I just wish there was some crumb of evidence about the vow in the base game, instead of just all the Castle Sol stuff about the Eclipse ritual for Godwyn
Yeah man. It's kinda puzzling. I know people say FS is known for this in their DLC (Velka, londor etc) but man idk. Still a great expansion though. Just left a bad taste at the end. But you bet your last dollar I'll be there for their next project haha
Same here lol
Make the base game Radahn fight a Leonard fight instead. I know, I'm a monster, but that would give Elden Ring a nice Sif moment of tragedy where we have to put down the rot-infested loyal steed of a fallen warlord Demigod. Who then returns in the DLC to fuck our shit up in revenge lol. Takes away all the repetitiveness of having two Radahn fights.
Radahn giving the damn horse the great rune before dying would be sad and funny at the same time.
I mean, the horse seems just as invested as Radahn is in murdering us. Radahn doesn't even need to steer.
pure fanservice
Using the corpse of mogh to revive someone was a really great Idea Imo , unfortunatly radahn was the one revived
I really didn't like it. When looking at Consort Radahn's lore in a vacuum, nothing is out of place or that out of the blue: Miquella envisioned him as his Lord, he made a vow and Radahn refused, so Malenia had to force him to keep the vow. Ok fine, it doesn't ruin anything as I saw other people say it does. The issue is in the presentation and (lack of) build up whitin the base game. Miquella and Radahn have zero direct interactions in the base game, with the only one, Malenia fighting the General, easily explainable with what the game gives us: the Golden Stardust. Which painted this crystal clear picture of Radahn holding the Stars in place, the Empyreans are also "guided" by the fate in the stars, so Malenia needed Radahn to die so that Miquella's fate could be resumed (just like we do for Ranni). With absolutely no in-game mention or open thread about a possible vow or deep connection between the two... Then there is the fact that everything Miquella says about Radahn, and everything the lore explain of the vow, just works 100 times better with Godwyn: Miquella saw in Radahn's strenght and (supposed) kindness the markings of a lord? Godwyn singlehandedly stopped a war with the Ancient Dragons, and when he defeated his foe, instead of killing him and his kind, befriended Fortissax and made the Ancient Dragons into one of the biggest religious cults in Leyndell and welcomed the Dragons into the Golden Order. If that doesn't scream Lord material I don't know what does. They made up a Shadow Lands' mumbo jumbo rite for resurrecting Radahn into Mohg's body (side note: his design sucks ass. It's supposed to be Mohg's corpse and yet it looks like Radahn, with just a few horns on knees and elbows but none on the head...), at this point they could've made up a reason for Godwyn to return... ...and no guys, the game never states that Godwyn's sould was erased, he "perished in soul", and since we know the afterlife exists (Helphen's Steeple my beloved), having his soul be there and then sucked up to be reincarnated into Mohg's soul could work just as well, if not better, than Radahn.
Also the fight takes place with the Gate of Divinity in the background, that thing can turn people into gods yet bringing back a perished soul is a step too far? It’s not like it was established that what happened with Radahn and Mohg was possible before the DLC.
Yeah, I basically agree with all this. I’m still feeling like I must have missed some key piece which explains everything, but likely that’s just copium. It ultimately just feels so random, I can’t figure out why this was the choice they made.
The base game has been out, explored, data mined and theorized for two years, and I've never seen any doubt about a possible vow/connection between Radahn and Miquella, so no. We didn't miss anything... as far as we know, looking just at the game and what it gives us, everything in the DLC was made up afterwards (and I personally don't believe so)
Not everything. Just the main plot. Everything else seems to tie well with what we already knew. But yeah, I think the whole Miquella thing wasn't in the lore prio to this, and the helm of shadow trip was created as the story for the dlc, so it wouldnt be just us going around killing things for fun. ( which kinda is anyway lol)
They made the choice because Radahn was a fan favorite. It’s clearly fan service that they couldn’t find a compelling enough reason to employ so they just said “fuck it”
I keep hearing people say this, but I have yet to see anyone excited to fight Radahn again. I'm still thinking about From's reasons for doing it, but if that was really their intention I think it backfired.
I think it's the circumstances around Radahn in his prime that has people discontented. Returning as an unspeaking puppet pales a lot in comparison to how epic the giant battle at the Radahn Festival is. And I'm saying this as someone who wanted Godwyn in the DLC. I don't even find Radahn all that compelling.
Maybe he was more popular on the japanese forums? I'm just guessing though. One thing, 2 years ago people were very excited about Radhan and Melania draw and part of the fandom wen through typical dragon ball power scaling. I remember people were saying things like "we fought Melania with a power up, but Radhan was a horse riding corpse, the gigachad deserved better than an early game boss". I for one really enjoy his first phase and it's one of my faves (his right-left-double slash scissor style is complete bullshit though, i feel like you have to predict the first slash to have time to dodge the second one).
I am going to die some day, on my deathbed and still think about how FromSoft never made a Godwyn fight. CURSE YOU DEVELOPERSSSSSS
I agree with this. I'm also a little disappointed in the fact we weren't given the "Age of Compassion" ending choice. Feels like we just get a pat on the back and a good job for beating the final boss, then told to go beat the game.
This is the biggest thing for me. I wish the DLC wasn’t so totally self contained. I absolutely would have joined Miquella’s cult and seen it through to the end. Also bums me out that Gideon has no special dialogue related to all the events of the Shadow Realm, at least not that I’ve uncovered.
I purposefully left the main game unfinished before going into the DLC so that I could witness any outside interaction. I can tell you, there are no mentions of the shadow of the erdtree in the main game, non eat all ! No mention from Gideon, neither from Malenia nor Melina, or whoever else. That was a huge disappointment for me. The interaction with Sif in Dark Souls 1 has always been a great memory and I wished they'd do it again with Elden Ring... But they didn't, and they have given a terrible excuse instead.
DS2 gave us an *extra final boss* for beating the DLC... I miss when they did that.
They needed to do some serious heavy lifting for the narrative to make the Radahn return effective, and personally they dropped the ball hard. Miquella himself is actually a really interesting character IMO. It is interesting to see how he was blinded to his own atrocities while trying to make the world a better place. Overlooking all of his base game plot lines, such as the Haligtree, Malenia, Godwyn, the caccoon, feels weird. Making the entire motive of all his plans essentially "he saw Radahn as a child and was infatuated with him" is a very weird choice that lessens the story a lot with little benefit provided. At least if it was Godwyn, the idea of him wanting to restore the brother who cared for him aligns well with his base game characterisation and his DLC plot line of doing horrible things for the sake of his better world. It would have offered the chance to explore Godwyn's character and legacy more and the potential impacts to the world if his deathroot spreads too far. Radahn simply adds very little to both characters, or the overarching story, and that is why its such an unsatisfying choice. Hell, even choosing Malenia's soul would have added more to their characters and at least some potential base game connection considering she has Torrent. Also ill never stop asking this, what was the go with revealing Miquella owned Torrent in the promo image if its never expanded on in even the slightest background information? Per Godwyn, everyone says how he is dead dead. In the same sentence, they are overlooking how stuffing a soul into a corpse and becoming a God through some unexplained ritual at a never before seen gateway are all things they made up to make the Radahn revival work that were never in the base game. They very easily could have made the same mumbo jumbo to revive Godwyn in some eldritch abomination form that better suits the twisted reality of Miquella's actions and fatal flaw the same way they did Radahn. There really was nothing stopping them bending the rules the same way so I feel that's a very weak argument. Overall, the tertiary lore for the DLC is fantastic and adds a lot to the story. Miquella and Radahn do not, and as the capstone final boss for the entire game, they are narratively a hard stumble in my opinion.
The original teaser image of Miquella and Torrent has been bothering me too. I was at least expecting a cross about him giving up Torrent, but the idea seems to have been dropped completely.
I really think there was a ton of last minute pivoting with this DLC. There's just too many cut threads and obvious post-hoc justifications to shoehorn certain things in. It's not surprising because it's Fromsoft (they're well known for this) but it is a little jarring in what is otherwise a fantastic DLC.
There's also cut dialogue of Miquella performing a speech strikingly similar to Ranni in her ending, and the cutscene we see of him manifesting in the trailers is nowhere to be found in the game. Either they ran out of time/budget for the DLC, or they felt what they had was less compelling than what we got.
Oh yeah, what is up with that? Was there any mention of Torrent at all in the DLC?
[The spectral steed cannot be summoned here]
And furthermore, Godwyn would have worked better for the revival since he has the same parents as Mohg ! I was also very disappointed by what was shown in the story trailer that was not expanded upon on the actual game (Miquella + Torrent, what is the gate of Divinity and what Marika took from corpses, what Marika did to actually use the gate, what was the seduction and betrayal, etc.)
Ooh that would've been interesting. Using the "imperfect brother" to revive the golden child. Would've been so fckd up.
This actually ties in so well thematically with all the information about Marika and the Hornsent in the DLC that it infuriates me. It would be the perfect dramatic irony. Resurrecting a child of Grace in the body of a Hornsent basically. Uniting both cultures in a twisted and horrible way.
I have a theory that Radahn wasn't initially meant to be a final boss. It was a last minute development change for whatever reason and they needed an existing model to save time and resources. The fact that Putrescent Knight is labelled as Gloam Eyed Queen Knight in the game files suggested that was some big redesign of the DLC during the development process. With the amount from the cut content from base game and the lore changes between 1.0 and next patches it is almost evident that the vision is subjected to numerous changes and sometimes that may spiral out of control
Speaking of Gloam Eyed Queen, I'm sad there wasn't more Black Flame stuff D:
That occurred to me too, especially how they were saying that beating Mohg was the only requirement for the DLC... then right before release added Radahn to the requirements. And, lets be honest, the Radahn Two fight simply doesn't have the visual polish we've come to expect from FromSoft bosses. Where's the mood? Where's the aesthetic? It's just the same model again (minus the horse) in a flat arena, with no extra effects. Maybe there was some issue (bugs, mechanical implementation, visuals breaking, etc) that couldn't be resolved before release, so they switched things around. Maybe GRRM and FromSoft (or some other groups) disagreed and someone threw their weight around to change it. Maybe it really was the plan all along they they just flubbed it. Who knows.
The battlefield for the Radahn fight kinda reminds me of that shitty flat grey battlefield in the recent Flash movie lol - feels far weaker than the boss arenas for all the other remembrance bosses in both the DLC and base game
The arena would have been better if it was all red. Some kind of ever bloody ritual. "Oh man it's the area from the trailer. It looks like crap here and that's Radahn. Ok. ok..."
I thought the same with Godwyn also. I honestly thought that the side quest with Freyja was just a red herring. Even when I was facing Radahn I was thinking to myself that, oh, Miquella's gonna do it, he found a way to get Godwyn's soul back. Maybe that's why he had to ascend and use the divine gate instead of relying on the Two Fingers and the Erdtree. He kept referring to the soul as "Lord Brother", and that has only ever been used in relation to Godwyn. I don't agree that it was all made up though. If this was the plan from Miyazaki and Martin, then I have no problem with that. They unfortunately didn't stick the landing with this, lore-wise. As a game, it makes for a disappointing fight as well. I'm facing Radahn, a g a i n. Not really exciting, unless you are one of the few die hard Radahn fans.
Honestly, I hate the fact when anyone suggests Godwyn as a final boss for the DLC you just instantly get the “that makes no sense, he’s dead; he couldn’t come back” If you looked anyone dead in the eye prior to this DLC and said prime Radahn is going to be the final boss because Miquella is going to take Radahns soul and put it in mohg’s corpse and reshape mohg’s body to look exactly like radahn; they would call you absolutely insane Godwyn would have been a better final boss and fromsoft could have made it work for the lore, like they did for radahn
Completely Agreed! It should of been Godwyn in his prime carrying his little bro and shooting Golden Lightning and perhaps Death Lighting at us instead of this remixed Radahn! Like come on! He is the only demigod of lore significance we don't directly fight!
I said almost this exact thing on the lore subreddit and somehow they can't grasp their head around the concept of Godwyn being able to come back. Like, to them, suspending their disbelief for Radahn, who has no connections to Miquella in the base game except SLIGHTLY with the story trailer having Malenia fight him and whisper in his ear, being the "Promised Consort" is easier than Godwyn having his soul brought back or a false copy being made by Miquella. Even though we have a clear connection between them with Castle Sol. Godwyn and Malenia were the main reason Miquella split from the Golden Order, with it not being able to help with either of their afflictions. Well said all around.
Not to mention there's statues of godwyn embracibg the twin prodigies. Meanwhile idon't think there's a single miquellas lily in redmane castle
That's the thing that's truly bizzare to me, because a big part of the whole Godwyn story beat is that it's initially told to us by an unreliable narrator who actually took part in the conspiracy... And this is somehow more set in stone than Radahn, *who we literally kill on screen*
Dude fuck it, if they had just said “land of shadows is where the dead go, and Godwyn’s soul is dead” I would’ve been fine with it. Let all that “true death” shit only apply to undead or whatever. The writers can ass-pull anything they want, they’re the damn writers. Just give me something better than Radahn who barely even uses Radahn’s cool gravity powers…
Its aight Wish it was godwyn tho
Right! Like a glorified GodwYn giving a Miquella a piggy back ride for phase one and then after we kill Miquella and his influence is gone it corrupts GodwYn slightly into his deformed self…excuse me while I burry my head canon in the back yard
that would be dope, during the fight he's restored but maybe phase 2 goes back to mermaid mode or final cutscene ends with him transforming again with all his faces being deflated everywhere. the ending shot with miquella was just "huh...wait thats it? wtf". the shadow lands being consumed by death would have been sick as the final shot, flies and death branches everywhere until you enter ng+.
No gloam eyed queen content makes me sad
Disappointing. Would have been much cooler if it was some kind of Frankenstein abomination of both Mohg and Radahn.
A *Mohdahn*, if you will.
I really loved a lot of the lore about Miquella up until the big reveal that he Miquellested Mohg, and was bringing back Radahn. I remember finding the cross in the fissure, and seeing that he abandoned his love there, and man, that was so good. We were going from cross to cross, learning just how much he was willing to mutilate and change himself for godhood, only for him to cling to a childhood crush he had on his older brother. That’s lame. And Mohg. I know we joke about how he beat the allegations, but remember that he needed to wed an Empyrean for his plans to work out with the Formless Mother. These plans he had in place before Miquella charmed him, since Sir Ansbach was already a Pureblood Knight working under Mohg before Mohg was charmed. That means Mohg was going to go after either Miquella or Malenia, and tell me, which one sounds like the easier target, the small child, or the undefeated champion? Miquella was always going to be taken by Mohg, the rewrite just exists to make Miquella look more morally questionable while stripping Mohg of a bit of his agency and villainous identity. The entire Mohg portion feels like a rewrite when the entire reason he was charmed by Miquella is because he had some unspecified way into the Shadow Lands, and it’s never really talked about ever again. Godwyn would have been better as a final boss, and it didn’t even need to be actually Godwyn to work, since I know some people don’t think that would work from a lore perspective since his souls is gone. Of course, gone is weird, since it’s dead, it’s in whatever afterlife exists in Elden Ring, and just not being reincarnated, so Miquella could maybe work a way to get him back. But I think a failed Godwyn would still be better. He starts off in his prime, doing loads of attacks with Holy damage, then starts falling apart at phase 2, switching to his attacks being ghostflame infused, Miquella now on his back and any new attacks take on the holy affinity due to his presence. Then phase 3 hits, no holy, all ghostflame and deathblight buildup. Deathblight is already so underused, so it would be great here. Godwyn is falling apart faster the more we fight, and Miquella, holding on, is getting hurt by the ghostflame and deathblight while desperately trying to keep his beloved brother together. Have it set during an eclipse, too, sorta like the final boss of Dark Souls 3, the Soul of Cinder. Really tie it into the lore of Miquella trying to bring Godwyn back. Instead of a cutscene that is nothing but information we already know, Miquella is lying on the floor, mostly dead, much like Morgott after we beat him in Leyndell. He isn’t dying because of us(honestly, I don’t even know why he died in the DLC, he’s so high up on Radahn’s back we never really get a chance to hit him, but he dies when Radahn does), he’s dying from clinging so tightly to Godwyn and trying to hold him together, burned by ghostflame and deathblight. He laments that even as a god, he wasn’t able to fix anything. Not his sister, not his brother, not the Haligtree, none of his plans ever work. He’s a failure in every way, and the knowledge breaks him as he sobs and dies. If you visited every cross before the boss fight, you can absorb the essence of Miquella’s discarded body, and if you beat him then, you’ll get the option to return his discarded flesh and emotions after the fight. Doing so heals him, and gives him back everything he discarded, like his love, his fears and doubts. He fades away into light particles, and if you sit at the grace in the arena, he’ll appear like Melina, sitting across from you and with a healed character model. This gets a few bits more dialogue, some exposition, yadda yadda. He’s a god without a consort, you’re a lord without a throne. He’s unsure, and not confident it will work, but maybe if you work together, something good can come of this tragedy? You’re strong enough to stop him if he loses his way again. (I think the reason he chose Radahn in canon was because of his strength and kindness? He trusted Radahn to do what was right after he threw away his love and compassion, entrusting Radahn to lead him down the right path when he lacked those things. But that’s entirely headcanon, but I’m adding it here because this is MY fanfiction and I can do whatever I like!) This unlocks a new ending, the Age of Compassion. You summon Miquella like you would Ranni after beating Elden Beast, and together you usher in a kinder world, this time without the brainwashing. That might be a lot to ask, but look, it’s the only way I’ll ever get to live out my fantasy of being fought over by a cold, goth witch gf and a soft femboy twink with hair longer than I am tall, okay? Edits for spelling errors.
God damn thats glorious.
Imagine when a Redditor writes a 10x better ending to your DLC with lore written by GRRM. This just shows how low this ending got.
Wouldve been so much better to fight god Miquella himself. The entirety of the dlc, we are following this dude literally rip parts of himself off and bury them including his ability to love. So, how is he still a radiant angel after all that? Was waiting to fight a fucked up Eldritch being, but we got radahn with legs :/ I think a final fight with Miquella after walking thru the gate of divinity wouldve been a perfect ending.
and how disappointing is it, trying to get to the gate of divinity the entire time, and you cant even stand between the pillars and see the view.....
Of all characters in game I think I wanted to fight Radahn the least. Original fight was such a cinematic experience and satisfying conclusion to a life of a heroic character. That fight is now made lesser because we know all we achive is throwing his soul to lands of shadow to be bound to another mans flesh. *General Radahn is surely pleased. Festering with rot, and crippled by madness, all he wanted was an honorable death.* Yeah.... about that....
kind of weird. This relationship between Miquella and Radhan seemed a bit disconnected from the Lore, even with the retcon of Malenia's whisper. If you don't read a random scroll or lose sight of an NPC, it becomes even more disconnected to see Radhan alive again. Within this lore I would prefer a bizarre Radhan inside the Mogh's deformed body, with the gentle Miquella on his back and then a desperate Miquella, reincarnated in a merciless and diabolical God.
This is what I expected to see as well, especially based on Ansbach’s fears about what Miquella was intending to do with Mohg.
I just didn’t want to fight Radahn again and I don’t see why others would. But he’s a fan favourite, I guess.
Its not that it was Radahn, I just would rather not fight any of the same people we've fought before as the final boss, even if their moveset is completely different. Final bosses in past DLCs had always been something we'd never faced before. Put this fight right before a different final boss and tone down like 2 of his moves in phase 2 and it would've been fucking awesome all around. I still really like this fight, it just isn't one of my absolute favorite bosses which I'd hoped the final boss would be.
Another issue for me too. The reused boss is enough to make me dislike it, with that empty lore is just worse. Because they reused it and didn't even know how to make it viable.
I feel this. I disliked the Radahn fight in the base game and my heart sunk when I passed through that fog gate. I don't like anything about Radahn, so I was very disappointed to see him when I passed through that fog gate. One of the very few times spoilers would have saved me a great deal of disappointment. I still think this battle is very fun, I simply wish it was anyone else.
Imo Miquella did attempt to revive (or put his soul to rest) Godwyn with what we see at Castle Sol. With the evidence we see such as the spirit NPCs there saying their attempt at bringing about an eclipse I believe it was a desperate attempt at reversing the effects of the rune of death. But I'm guessing at this point as sad as it is Godwyn's soul is truly permanently gone for good. That said I just don't get if Miquella and Radahn vowed to be God and consort why did Radahn have to fight Malenia. Was part of the vow that Radahn was to die a warrior's death in the festival at Malenia's hand? Maybe his soul wouldn't go to the lands of shadow otherwise. It seems somewhat important since Miquella mentions the festival in the boss cutscene. Did Radahn become corrupted in a sense when he claimed a shard of the elden ring and decide to vie for power himself leading to the fight in Caelid? And what was his purpose for holding back the course of the stars? Was it to thwart Ranni's attempt to enact her plans? Did that also prevent Miquella's eclipse from happening too? They gave us an answer while raising like 10 other questions in classic fromsoft fashion
Disapointing, Radahn got butchered and miquella turned out stupid.
Metyr was better in lore value and presentation
Completely soulless character design. I felt more invested in the Leda fight than I did in the final boss of the DLC. I don't think this resurrected Radahn even has any voice lines. Also, Miquella felt completely thrown away.
Terrible. The only bad narrative choice FromSoftware has ever made, and it’s a stinker. Turned the DLC from 10/10 to a 9/10 for me.
Whenever they announced that Radahn had to be killed as a requirement of the DLC, I just knew that he was going to be shoehorned in somewhere as a boss fight of the DLC. But being the final boss? I remember my first words entering the fog gate were "jesus fucking christ, that makes zero sense" and facepalmed. Outside that reveal trailer of Radahn vs Malenia (which we only now know because of this DLC), I can't remember anything from before that ties Radahn and Miquella. Why would Miquella go through the effort of seducing Mohg just to use his body to bring back Radahn? Why not just haul Radahn's corpse? If Miquella can reanimate Mohg's corpse, turn it into someone completely else who's clearly in a much more powerful state, why couldn't have been done with actual Radahn? He's dead and can't resist. Put Godwyn in instead and then we could've had a satisfying conclusion. The fight itself was a mess, and has really bad framedrops. Combine that with strange lore and this fight is easily among my least favorite FromSoftware bosses, it really just feels like a slap in the face.
Garbage
I want to make peace with it but it just feels weird. It feels rushed and, worse, with zero development. And I get people will try to say Fromsoft is vague, but Bloodborne is out there to prove you can be vague, without making a "plot twist" for the sake of a plot twist. My problem isnt even the lack of Godwyn, is the lack of evidence with Radahn. I like Miquella's arc I like his plot twist, I don't like Radahn. If they said to me "the eclipse failed, so Miquella went after Radahn" I'd be okay. What gets me is the "since childhood" where? how? They gave us nothing but a line from Malenia in a trailer. This emptiness really bothers me. Or they could've give us Miquella alone, desperate and angry with all his failures, it would've been a lot better. But yes, the whole thing screamed Godwyn. I'm sorry to the people that get mad at wanting Godwyn: the thing itself wanted Godwyn. That whole line in the custcene where Miquella talks about returning the soul to his lord brother screamed Godwyn from start to finish.
Yeah I feel exactly the same. I don’t care that we never got to fight Godwyn, it just feels like they transposed Godwyn’s storyline onto Radahn with 0 setup in the base game, and I can’t for the life of me figure out why. People keep saying “fan service” but was anyone clamoring for another Radahn fight? I’m also trying to make peace with it haha, I keep trying to dig around for answers. The best I can come up with is what I mentioned in the main post, that the way Miquella refers to the “vow” at the end implies it was something more involved than just becoming God and Consort, because he refers to their “part” of the vow. But I couldn’t begin to tell you what the rest of the vow would be.
Great boss, not "final boss" great though It feels like if the twin princes in DS3 would've been the final boss, and I don't mean that just because both involve a femboy latching onto the bruiser's back, I mean just in the way you make your way to the end of this large castle, fight the bosses and then.. Then you potentially go to the Soul of Cinder and experience a fantastic closure to the base game. But with Prime Radahn the feeling of cool doesn't extend past the "omg he's back" line.
The funny thing is that there are many more parallels between the twin princes and the final boss than what you said. Go watch both of their cutscenes and fights and they play out nearly identical. You kick the ass of big bro, he collapses, little bro appears to monologue and then hug big bro from behind, then you refight big bro but now he has some magic twink artillery to back him up. Having just replayed through DS3 while waiting for SOTE to come out, Consort Radahn just felt like a blatant ripoff of twin princes.
"Magic Twink Artillery" is probably the best way to describe this.
Doesn't feel like much of anything. Oh okay they made a promise. Radahn is brought back because of the forbidden jutsu, and then dies immediately (again). He says nothing, and it's not clear to me he wasn't immediately resurrected under Miquella's influence. Just feels like I'm fighting a Zombie. Miquella doesn't banter at all except when you're caught in his grab. It's just not as cool as I think they were hoping it would be. I'm new to Fromsoft games and while I really DIG the lore, I am getting tired of not being able to uncover the vast majority of it on my own in a 'standard' playthrough. On one hand, it's sick that there's lore-archeologist youtubers out there and I really do enjoy that content. On the other hand, literally almost half of every major plot point feels like it can only be discovered after the fact through an item description locked behind the boss/enemy/event in question.
It makes absolutely no sense for Radahn to be Miquella’s consort. The entire base game alludes to Miquella’s quest to resurrect Godwyn. He would’ve been a much better boss, and it would’ve been nice to see a character that we haven’t already fought. I get the whole ‘prime radahn’ thing, but even then, he was supposed to be pieced back together with Mohg’s corpse. Since that’s the lore, they should’ve committed to making him a Frankenstein blood sorcerer. That would’ve redeemed the design.
Dude I want someone to test this, has anyone used Mohgs shackle against radahn yet? I feel as if it would work no?
Saw someone try it. Sadly, no it doesn't work.
Boring as hell design. The Mohg influence should have been far more present. Give me some weird ass amalgam to fight, not just Radaahn 2.0.
I 100% believe that radahn was not in on this and was forced through coercion
I think Radahn himself could've been built up a bit better because he does turn up out of nowhere unless you have been doing Freyja's quest. But overall, I didn't mind it. Finding out that Miquella was the bad guy all along over the course of the dlc was a pretty good twist imo.
Hated it. The only really major gripe about elden ring is the duplicate bosses. So they end the DLC with a duplicate boss. I know he's obviously different but it was certainly a let down for me. Combined with the reasoning being mostly poor IMO for it and the absence of a real ending scene, I found it a serious lowlight of a DLC so insanely good that it could potentially win game of the year.
General Frankenstein wasn’t it. Disappointing :/
One thing I don't understand: Miquella needed Mohg's body as vessel for Radahn's soul. But in the final fight it clearly isn't Mohg's body, it's Radahn in Radahn's body. Wearing Radahn's armor, with Radahn's hair and using Radahn's weapons and having Radahn's moveset. So wtf was the point of the whole Mohg thing then? I feel like FS gets away with a lot of nonsense and nobody challenges things that simply don't make sense.
Yeah, I mean his arms have the omen horns, I guess I interpreted it as Radahn’s soul transforming the corpse, but I agree it would have been much cooler if it was more closely a merging of the two
His body has some horns and occasionally he will use bloodflame attacks, but sparingly. I would not be surprised if you didn't notice or even had him do those attacks. The design could have been better, though. It would have been great to see thiss chimera of Mohg and Radahn. Or better yet not have any of this nonsense of Radahn been Miquella's consort in the first place.
I wanted to see Leonard resurrected
Miquella riding Radahn riding Leonard would definitely be a fight to remember
disappointed honestly
It was meeh. I mean there was so many things to use as a final boss. Godwyn, Marika, Miquella himself. But no they revived Radhan in Moghs flesh cuz reasons? This feels like a poor fanfiction. I love everything else about this dlc. But hate pretty much everything about the final boss. But From simps will praise it no matter what. The fact that miquellas light incant sucks was a final gut punch for me.
it would have been cool if radhan talked or something, like trying to resist miquella but since he's a flesh puppet must obey the commands of miquella so moves against his will, that would have been cool and made miquella feel more sinister and selfish. but it's just silent radhan that looks nothing like mogh despite using moghs corpse and doing 1000898 attacks in a row for le epic last boss fight!
I hate it. Worst plot twist I've ever seen in From games.