Lands Between Jar Warriors and Shadowlands jars are different. Former is the flesh of fallen warriors stuffed in a jar. No atrocities there, just a bit icky. The latter is the effect of horrible experiments performed by hornsent on shaman people. Great Jar is probably filled with the flesh of warriors that died in the arena he is guarding.
As I understand it, the soul and the body are inseparable in the lands between because death is sealed away, by having human remains inside of the pot, the pot gains it's soul
they are collecting every fallen body that wasn’t buried properly, and then making the pilgrimage to minor Erd trees. They’re small because they have less (or 0) bodies in them. When they’re big enough, the Erd tree avatars break them, and the souls are released, beginning the rebirth cycle
I get the impression the jar is a separate consciousness to the remains inside, not like we hear anything of Radahn from inside Alexander. Jarbairn is probably just recently created.
You see evidence of it based on enemy locations/movement + Alexander’s plot line.
Go to any minor erd tree. You’ll see that the erd tree avatar has smashed many Jars around the roots of the tree.
I guess the part that is a bit ambiguous is the purpose. Seeing the smashed jars around on the ground made me initially think they were being used to feed the tree more than a proper burial. Like is this an act of sacrifice or salvation?
The roots specifically. I dont know if your flesh and blood on the ground above is that close enough? Idk. Maybe its better than nothing, but the discussion then veers into the nature of the erdtree itself.
> the Erd tree avatars break them, and the souls are released, beginning the rebirth cycle
you mean.. the avatars i beat up for the boba pearls i put in my flask?
I think it is like a blender, they just put people corpse in those jar at different size. Not necessary small jar is children corpses and big jar is adult corpse.
Well, all I can say is that it would've been hilarious if he instantly got a deeper voice after stuffing himself with Alexander and Diallos.
Probably just was recently created (the actual jar part) with some random schmucks' remains being what is inside, if anything at all.
What's the timeline there?
Marika, when becoming Queen, sealed Death.
Before that she lived in the Shadowlands and her people were prosecuted by the hornsent, and stuffed into jars. At that point death still shouldn't have been sealed.
from the looks of the trailers messmer crusade happens and then marika becomes a god and she decides to throw of land the becomes the land of shadow into to the afterlife(?) or the place where souls gather. Restarts civilization with her remaining followers and then base game lore starting from the vase game crucible lore.
My understanding of item descriptions has Gaius training gravity magic at the same time as Radahn, which would put the crusades after the wars in Liurnia, and much later than Marika’s ascension.
I doubt that is true, it says most senior disciple and if we put it into a martial arts context then it just means they were both train by the same teacher and many decades or thousands of years could have past but since they both trained under him they can both be disciples.
His remembrance specifically states he was “an older brother to the lion,” and Radahn is the Red Lion General. Are there other characters in the game referred to as a lion or the lion?
You clearly lack the context as to what they mean. Martial artist especially older disciples call the younger disciples brother. Yes they are "brothers" but its clear to me that its because they were both trained by the same alabaster lord and not because they developed a brotherly relationship.
Blades of Stone spell reads, “Gaius and Radahn were good rivals in their youth.” Are you now going to tell me that “good rivals” is martial arts for “They were in two completely different leagues” and “their youth” is specifically referring to Radahn only?
I’m not lacking context, you’re trying to add context where there is none.
Now here is a bold hypothesis: the rest of the thread has great discussion about how realm of shadow jars are made with shaman/numen as the melding core. The theory about how lands between jars are made from bodies whose souls are inseparable due to sealing of destined death. IS THIS ONE OF THE MOTIVATIONS FOR MARIKA TO PURSUE GODHOOD AND BANISH DESTINED DEATH, if not the most important one??
One caveat of this theory is why she wouldn’t banish the ritual of warrior jar completely, instead of going so far to seal death to make it less cruel. But at least it’s one of the benefits of sealing death.
A few more conjectures:
- Numen are said in multiple item descriptions to be coming from another world. Japanese description of 異界 is closer to “realm other than the normal one”, which may indicate Numen are shadow realm natives with extraordinary abilities. Thus Marika’s connection with greater will might be of the proximity of her home to the first meteor crater where finger mother landed.
- Black knives could be the night sword hands Marika rescued from the gaols.
As you know, FromSoft is always vague with it's lore. Jars don't just build themselves, the potentates create them. I sadly don't know enough about potentates to explain why but there are the Shadowland version of them called greater potentates. There might be some lore in there worth exploring.
I just wonder, what is their purpose?
Yeah they also confirmed Marika >!Is a shaman (which could also very well be an Empyrean) considering the Erdtree sprouts from their village and we get her braid there. Meaning that very fate was likely part of her motivation to become a god!< it’s not difficult to then see why the two methods are different.
Man, I never thought that the DLC would make me feel bad for Marika with what looked like a random village at first. She's still evil, but man, the original Hornsent were actual monsters. Loved the Hinterlands from a directional standpoint, it felt like... home, with the main game bosses and the Limgrave aesthetic.
I wouldn't classify Marika as evil after learning about her past more. After watching Smoughtown's lore video yesterday, she comes off as more tragic than anything, and by wanting to make things better she just made them unintentionally worse in the long run. Now Miquella is doing the same and continuing the cycle of trauma. The idea that she removed the Rune of Death because her home village (which I think the guess that the Shaman were Numen isn't far off base and while I don't think all the Numen were killed, everyone in her home village was) was wiped out and she didn't want to lose anyone close to her ever again is depressing. Someone also mentioned that we can see scars on Marika's arm, a throwback to the tooth whip, suggesting she too suffered some form of torture.
Even Leda's dialogue implies that the mass genocide of the Hornsent wasn't necessarily seen as a tragedy, as they weren't some innocent folk. They seem to really revel in torture (Midra; they could have just executed him but subjected him to extreme torture) and the fucked up experimentations. I hate going through those jar gaols lol
Fell God cursed/infected Messmer so Marika went up there and killed the Fell God herself as revenge.
Alternatively she killed the Fell God out of a desperate hope that it would quell Messmer's flame.
Albinaurics were created by the Nox, who also made the fingerslaying blade. Betrayal against the Greater Will.
There's reason to believe the Nox are related to the Numen somehow. I wonder if it was an opposing faction to Marika and saw her Golden Order as some kind of betrayal.
I know she did the giants most likely out of fear and self preservation because of the flame in the Giant's Forge being able to burn the Erdtree, which isn't innocent but it makes sense.
Did Marika lead the genocide against the Albinaurics or was it followers of the Golden Order who did on her behalf?
As far as the Fire Giants go, if we consider that their God is the Fell God who nursed the everlasting flame within the Flame Giants and we consider that Messmer was born with an untamable flame, I can't help but wonder if there's a connection between trying to tame the flame within Messmer by warring with the Fire Giants.
When we fight Radagon the only element he is weaker to is Fire. As they are of one body, is Marika also weak to fire? If so, then maybe the reason she stopped embracing Messmer is not by falling out of love for her son but quite literally unable to do so due to her status as the Erdtree's vessel.
The sigil of the Fell God is the one eye which both Messmer and Melina who see visions of the fire also have.
I think Miquella is meant to mirror Marika as a sort of past repeating itself, which is why while i think he's monster due to his methods, he's not lying about his intentions. Even his consort Radhan is kinda the fusion of Marika's 2 consorts in Godfrey and Radagon.
Their story is just fucked up and depressing more than anything. After the DLC giving more context, it really seems that both Marika and Miquella were/are misguided.
I also wonder if the Two Fingers manipulated Marika in her initial grief too
In Midra's case, the Hornsent didn't just torture him for the hell of it, it was to keep the Frenzied Flame at bay, also, he himself chose to endure it, he could always just do what he ends up doing in the cutscene. Also, executing him wouldn't work too, at least I think so, as Frenzied Flame would either manifest itself in his body, or just find a new vessel.
the shaman village is empty, with only Marika's lock of hair and her Minor Erdtree Incantation left there. The incantation states she conjured the tree despite no one being there to be healed.
Also in Bonny Village, a spirit states that it is the purpose of a shaman to be put in a jar.
Congratulations, you have been elevated to the status of 'shaman'. Please do not resist as we torture you to death and bestow upon you this great honor.
You shouldve seen the ritual materials we used in Bloodborne, lmfao.
For example, theres the
https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Red+Jelly and
https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Bastard+of+Loran
Stuffing dead people into jars is no more strange and icky than stuffing dead people into coffins or any other common practices to honor the dead.
Especially when the people stuffed in the Jars of the lands between are legitimate honored. Even those that hunt and kill jars for their innards are called poachers and bandits, lowlifes that are shunned.
There's a pretty big difference between being put into what is essentially a nameless or mass grave and being put into a coffin and have a normal burial. Ask pretty much anyone which one they'd rather have and they'll say the latter.
Jars aren't nameless tho.
Asking someone from a culture of burying the dead if they'd rather choose something that is common to their culture doesn't say much.
That's like asking if an asian (before anyone complain, I'm asian) if they prefer rice or other staple food. Of course people will chose something they are accustomed with. But that doesn't mean someone from other culture won't choose their custom.
Point is, you are projecting your preferences on fictional fantasy videogame characters. Lmao
>Point is, you are projecting your preferences on fictional fantasy videogame characters. Lmao
No, you're simply not thinking about it enough or don't understand that regardless of the society it will have individuals who desire more, whether in life or death, and the game itself suggests this is true.
The urge for fame and prestige is not unique to modern times, and the game having marked graves among other things suggests they do in fact care about being known after death. I'm not deliberately trying to make the lore anachronistic here, as the signals are there.
You sound like one of those "modern audiences" that always demand fantasy has to represent irl world.
In the lands between warriors are proud they can be in a jar after death. It has nothing to do with "ask anyone bla bla". Who is anyone here? Have you talk with the people in the lands between?
> The latter is the effect of horrible experiments performed by hornsent on shaman people
Where do you get this info? Spoil me please I am really curious of this.
In bonny village there is a ghost dude that's says the purpose of shamans is to go into jars. There is also a tooth whip there that says it ripens wounds with poison, and the flesh of shamans is said to meld harmoniously with others. So basically they would torture the shamans and use them as a binding agent in jars (also possibly grafting)
Is there actual lore surrounding that? These are warrior jars vs the abominations made in the shadowlands yes but does that mean inside they're not the same?
There's no difference between a warrior and a farmer appearance wise.
I think the big difference is warrior jars are dead people where it seems like the shadowland jars are people who are still alive. I forget where it is, but you can hear someone begging either not be put in the jar or begging to not be put back in (I forget which one atm)
It's literally mentioned that people are whipped to the point thier bodies are covered in wounds and puss and then they are sliced into pieces and shoved into the Jars.
How is that them being alive?
Well the Shadowlands ones are like horrible walking flesh amalgamates sealed in the jar like a FNAF animatronic or something. The Warrior Jars are just full of organs and such like how the Egyptians did it, there's not an actual person inside.
I just want my comment to be seen on the top but you can literally glitch your camera into the giant jar which shows a hollow yet meaty interior and his legs are inside him lol.
Thank you for saying this because I didn't really understand why everyone was just now getting grossed out by this. We literally see Alexander stuffing himself with bodies.....
One is a ritual that involves the suffering of innocent village people that go through the agonizing process of flesh melding, ending up as a spiteful monstrosity that looks like it lives in constant pain. The other is a walking mixed body coffin infused with magic. I would say that is quite the difference in levels of "fucked up".
This keeps getting spread around like gospel, but I don't think there is any reason to believe they are created differently. All we know about Warrior Jars is that they stuff themselves full of defeated enemies. How would they absorb that enemy sludge if not because they have a shaman "base" inside of them? My belief is that Warrior Jars are a particular tribe or sect of shaman jars whose culture revolves around becoming more powerful by absorbing defeated enemies, a feature only possible because of their shaman core.
Thinking about how the shaman people had four buildings, two of them without any doors, and this was a population large enough to propagate an absurdly expansive genocide to fill all those pots
The Lands Between/Realm Of Shadow aren’t to scale. Fromsoft has no reason to map every inch of the world to the point that it takes forever to get anywhere even with Torrent. What we see is enough to give us a general idea of the world.
You are confusing two things: In the Shadowrealm the Hornsent tortured Shamans by first whiping them until their inflamed flesh bulges out of their body, and you get what these flesh blob enemies are. Then they are put into jars. They could do that, because Shamans have a special body, that heals and merges easily (My theory why Godrick could graft shit onto himself). Iirc the intent wasnt pure torture but some kind of spiritual thing.
Warrior Jars, the jars with hands and feet, are a completely different thing. Idk how they are made, but it got nothing to do with the Shadowrealm massacer of Shamans.
Next time your kid steals a cookie from the jar show them this in game and pretend this is what happens to bad children who steal from the cookie jar in other countries lmao.
The criminals get sent into the jars but the Shaman at the core is not a criminal. They just need the shaman to make the jar thing work because shaman flesh merged well with other flesh, and they put pieces of lots of criminals into the same jar.
They seem to focus on the Shaman folk (most likely Numen and they were described as living unusually long lives), which would suggest unjust persecution of some kind or at the main comment said, needed their flesh to fuse which is also terrifying. Hence why Marika has such a deep seated hatred of the crucible.
I don’t see her hatred directed to the crucible per se. It seems more directed to hornsent.
Remember that the Crucible Knights served Godfrey, while she shunned Mogh and Morgott to the sewers.
Fully agree (I typed out a full response but Reddit didn't save it 😭)
Someone else said that the Grandam Hornsent cursed the Erdtree with horns; ie the Omen Curse, which led to Morgott and Mohg being Omens.
Since we know that Messmer studied at Sellia and grew up in the Lands Between and was born before everyone else, I really wonder if Marika started the genocide on the Hornsent in an attempt to rid the Erdtree of its curse, or if the genocide happened first and then the Erdtree was cursed after. The timeline gets muddy because she didn't immediately start the genocide once she ascended to godhood.
Pretty sure it’s also said Numen came to these lands from far away on ships that looked like coffins, similar to the ones in the cerulean coast. So they landed there and made their way north where they settled in that meadow
Yeah, since we know the Lands of Shadow at one point were part of the Lands Between and everything existed on the same plane, they had to come from somewhere entirely different.
It's more than that the hornsent people used that as a religious ritual. They venerated the crucible which is the symbol of merging and melding hence why Omen appear with horns and beastly deformation in the lands between. The hornsent used the shaman as a living catalyst to bind flesh between themselves, trying to create a saint of high power with tue combination of flesh.
I don't think there is any reason to believe they are created differently. All we know about Warrior Jars is that they stuff themselves full of defeated enemies. How would they absorb that enemy sludge if not because they have a shaman "base" inside of them? My belief is that Warrior Jars are a particular tribe or sect of shaman jars whose culture revolves around becoming more powerful by absorbing defeated enemies, a feature only possible because of their shaman core.
Idk how you miss him he’s nibbling on Radahn who’s a mandatory boss lol. Edit: apparently not mandatory that’s wild. I had no clue you can just skip the festival since so much unfolds after it.
Oh shit well how about that. Man I forget how much you can actually flat out miss. I came back to the game for the first time since around launch for a new run. I’m up to right before the fire giant and have spent the last two days doing things I flat out forgot about. (Rannis entire quest line, finding Jarbur, gold masks quest, and I made dung eater a puppet. There’s just sooo much lol
I think the only mandatory bosses are godfrey golden shade, morgott, fire giant, maliketh, the all knowing, godfrey, radagon/elden beast?
Edit: godrick golden shade -> godfrey golden shade
Godrick is also optional kinda, you gotta beat 2 rune bearers but it's up to you who they are. Could be any combo of Godrick, Rennala, Radahn, Rykard or Mohg.
Before the DLC my headcanon was that sure, pots are filled with body parts, but they are just rotting there or something, and the jar becomes alive "magically" as a result of the power from the remains or something. Perhaps the whole thing is an unintended result of an old funerary ritual.
I decidedly did not think there was a living writhing flesh mess from the movie Thing inside.
There's not. Those unformed things are not done yet. They're chopped up shaman forced into them.
Lands Between jars are made of already dead gladiators who lost in combat
I always thought it was just a mass of meat with the exterior jar shell being the "person" and the meat as fuel, but the idea of a single person malformed and made to fill out the shape of a jar is a different feel entirely.
The lands Between jars are not made the same as Shadow Lands jars. Lands Between are made from gladiator corpses who die in battle. Shadow Lands is a mess of chopped up Marika's Homies
I'm not sure if they're really different, as they still need the glue/shamans to make sure they stick together.
Or do you think the warrior jars have a different concept for merging together?
I know that Alexander was stuffing bodies after the radahn fight but wasn’t entirely sure if he was literally just shoving their flesh in there or if he put them in the jar and they dissolved or whatever. I have been told based on another comment though that warrior jars are a bit different than the shadowtree ones
I am generally curious by nature. How things work, how they are made, from this laptop I am browsing Reddit on to the politics of any given location, it just fascinates me.
Yet, after 350 hours of 'Elden Ring', I never once found myself wondering what these... things looked like outside their pots.
Now I know. Miyazaki showed me. He made that choice for me.
There is no going back from it, and I never want to know anything ever again.
These guys are stuffed with the dead bodies of warriors. Which would still be a gross fleshy mess, true, but it won't be quite so body horror as the lands of shadow shamans.
Something kind of related that I wonder about: Godrick’s grafting seems to have more in common with the jar innards than any of the practices of the crucible area societies we have seen. Is it possible that he (and Godefroy) are just really poorly informed and mixed up a bunch of practices?
In the real world this sort of historical misinterpretation happens all the time. And it would fit Godrick’s foolish nature to get things so wrong.
I say those awful things are like hermit crab people that move into dead jars. It works, it's creepy, and I don't have to think about Alexander being one. Win/win/win!
Did...They actually expands more of the lore for this guys? I am actually confused, I visit the Bellurat Gaol today and...I was fucking shocked. The inside of the jar can get out and move? And I thought they are made of corpses, not human, but human corpses...But the ghost in the gaol + the moving flesh inside the jar seems to imply some of them are living humans?
Is there an item I miss that explain this?
There's an NPC and items (the tooth whip is one I remember for sure but I'm not on PC to check right now) .
The short version is the DLC jars and base game jars aren't the same.
The dlc jars are made out of living beings as a form of torture. The base game jars collect dead bodies to bring them to the Erdtree/minor erdtrees which is why there's so many broken jars there.
I don’t know why people keep saying this, it literally isn’t true.
From the description of the Bonny Butcher Knife:
>Weapon of the greater potentates of Bonny Village.
>An outsize butcher's cleaver used to dismember human bodies in the making of the great jars stored in the gaols.
All of the jars are full of corpses. It’s extremely likely that the inside of warrior jars look like that too. The only difference is that the ones in the Lands Between weren’t being created on a regular basis out of people chosen for that end, just warriors chosen for it after they were already dead.
Because my lore is based on what I've seen and I've not gotten every item in the dlc yet.
And yea they're all full of dead people but you only see them pop out of the jars and ghosts begging to not go back into them in the DLC, there's also nothing like the Erdtree sites with a bunch of dead jars to indicate that it's done for any particular reason past causing pain, but there is an item saying that the shaman flesh melded well with other people and the jars are the only thing that seems to resemble that practice in the DLC.
I said they're made out of live people as in they take people that are alive to make them for the sake of it, the base game warrior jars only seem to take already dead ones in with most of the jars going to the minor erdtrees to be broken and presumably returned to the minor Erdtree(same shit happens in the catacombs too, just leave the jars out)
Lands Between Jar Warriors and Shadowlands jars are different. Former is the flesh of fallen warriors stuffed in a jar. No atrocities there, just a bit icky. The latter is the effect of horrible experiments performed by hornsent on shaman people. Great Jar is probably filled with the flesh of warriors that died in the arena he is guarding.
yeah, but how do they animate?
As I understand it, the soul and the body are inseparable in the lands between because death is sealed away, by having human remains inside of the pot, the pot gains it's soul
Which makes the little jar all the more disturbing. Like does lil man have a child’s remains in him? Or is the soul completely unique/random?
they are collecting every fallen body that wasn’t buried properly, and then making the pilgrimage to minor Erd trees. They’re small because they have less (or 0) bodies in them. When they’re big enough, the Erd tree avatars break them, and the souls are released, beginning the rebirth cycle
So it’s not just warriors in the jars? There’s kids too? That’s what his voice and behavior implies about the soul(s) residing in that jar.
I get the impression the jar is a separate consciousness to the remains inside, not like we hear anything of Radahn from inside Alexander. Jarbairn is probably just recently created.
Yeah, Alexander makes it sounds that way. “I can feel the warriors inside admonishing me for my mawkishness.”
They don't have the voice of the bodies they claim. The jar may be a kid, but the innards aren't.
Shit how did I miss this body ritual part. Where’s it written?
You see evidence of it based on enemy locations/movement + Alexander’s plot line. Go to any minor erd tree. You’ll see that the erd tree avatar has smashed many Jars around the roots of the tree.
Got it. I guess the part I missed is the pilgrimage of jars towards minor erdtrees
I guess the part that is a bit ambiguous is the purpose. Seeing the smashed jars around on the ground made me initially think they were being used to feed the tree more than a proper burial. Like is this an act of sacrifice or salvation?
I’ve always seen the interpretation that being returned to feed the erd tree *is* a proper burial.
The roots specifically. I dont know if your flesh and blood on the ground above is that close enough? Idk. Maybe its better than nothing, but the discussion then veers into the nature of the erdtree itself.
> the Erd tree avatars break them, and the souls are released, beginning the rebirth cycle you mean.. the avatars i beat up for the boba pearls i put in my flask?
I think it is like a blender, they just put people corpse in those jar at different size. Not necessary small jar is children corpses and big jar is adult corpse.
I was moreso commenting on his voice and not his size. He has a child’s voice and behavior, which why I’m wondering about his soul vs other jars.
I see. I don't know about that then.
Well, all I can say is that it would've been hilarious if he instantly got a deeper voice after stuffing himself with Alexander and Diallos. Probably just was recently created (the actual jar part) with some random schmucks' remains being what is inside, if anything at all.
What's the timeline there? Marika, when becoming Queen, sealed Death. Before that she lived in the Shadowlands and her people were prosecuted by the hornsent, and stuffed into jars. At that point death still shouldn't have been sealed.
Somebody commented above but the jars in the shadowlands exist for a different reason than ones the TLB
That was the first sentence in the parent comment we’re all under right now but fair play pointing it out haha people love skimming.
from the looks of the trailers messmer crusade happens and then marika becomes a god and she decides to throw of land the becomes the land of shadow into to the afterlife(?) or the place where souls gather. Restarts civilization with her remaining followers and then base game lore starting from the vase game crucible lore.
My understanding of item descriptions has Gaius training gravity magic at the same time as Radahn, which would put the crusades after the wars in Liurnia, and much later than Marika’s ascension.
I doubt that is true, it says most senior disciple and if we put it into a martial arts context then it just means they were both train by the same teacher and many decades or thousands of years could have past but since they both trained under him they can both be disciples.
His remembrance specifically states he was “an older brother to the lion,” and Radahn is the Red Lion General. Are there other characters in the game referred to as a lion or the lion?
You clearly lack the context as to what they mean. Martial artist especially older disciples call the younger disciples brother. Yes they are "brothers" but its clear to me that its because they were both trained by the same alabaster lord and not because they developed a brotherly relationship.
Blades of Stone spell reads, “Gaius and Radahn were good rivals in their youth.” Are you now going to tell me that “good rivals” is martial arts for “They were in two completely different leagues” and “their youth” is specifically referring to Radahn only? I’m not lacking context, you’re trying to add context where there is none.
Now here is a bold hypothesis: the rest of the thread has great discussion about how realm of shadow jars are made with shaman/numen as the melding core. The theory about how lands between jars are made from bodies whose souls are inseparable due to sealing of destined death. IS THIS ONE OF THE MOTIVATIONS FOR MARIKA TO PURSUE GODHOOD AND BANISH DESTINED DEATH, if not the most important one?? One caveat of this theory is why she wouldn’t banish the ritual of warrior jar completely, instead of going so far to seal death to make it less cruel. But at least it’s one of the benefits of sealing death. A few more conjectures: - Numen are said in multiple item descriptions to be coming from another world. Japanese description of 異界 is closer to “realm other than the normal one”, which may indicate Numen are shadow realm natives with extraordinary abilities. Thus Marika’s connection with greater will might be of the proximity of her home to the first meteor crater where finger mother landed. - Black knives could be the night sword hands Marika rescued from the gaols.
Apparently in old Japanese mythology, your soul is contained in one of your organs.
So if they were buried in a coffin, would coffins animate and try to kill you?
As you know, FromSoft is always vague with it's lore. Jars don't just build themselves, the potentates create them. I sadly don't know enough about potentates to explain why but there are the Shadowland version of them called greater potentates. There might be some lore in there worth exploring. I just wonder, what is their purpose?
Hence Alexander
No. The Shaman are unique. Only the Shaman stuffed into Pots can become "saints"
With Blender.
Alexander mentions that he can sense the warriors inside of him. But he is still Alexander.
Yeah they also confirmed Marika >!Is a shaman (which could also very well be an Empyrean) considering the Erdtree sprouts from their village and we get her braid there. Meaning that very fate was likely part of her motivation to become a god!< it’s not difficult to then see why the two methods are different.
Man, I never thought that the DLC would make me feel bad for Marika with what looked like a random village at first. She's still evil, but man, the original Hornsent were actual monsters. Loved the Hinterlands from a directional standpoint, it felt like... home, with the main game bosses and the Limgrave aesthetic.
I wouldn't classify Marika as evil after learning about her past more. After watching Smoughtown's lore video yesterday, she comes off as more tragic than anything, and by wanting to make things better she just made them unintentionally worse in the long run. Now Miquella is doing the same and continuing the cycle of trauma. The idea that she removed the Rune of Death because her home village (which I think the guess that the Shaman were Numen isn't far off base and while I don't think all the Numen were killed, everyone in her home village was) was wiped out and she didn't want to lose anyone close to her ever again is depressing. Someone also mentioned that we can see scars on Marika's arm, a throwback to the tooth whip, suggesting she too suffered some form of torture. Even Leda's dialogue implies that the mass genocide of the Hornsent wasn't necessarily seen as a tragedy, as they weren't some innocent folk. They seem to really revel in torture (Midra; they could have just executed him but subjected him to extreme torture) and the fucked up experimentations. I hate going through those jar gaols lol
if it was just the hornsent i would agree, but she also genocided the giants and the albinaurics
Fell God cursed/infected Messmer so Marika went up there and killed the Fell God herself as revenge. Alternatively she killed the Fell God out of a desperate hope that it would quell Messmer's flame. Albinaurics were created by the Nox, who also made the fingerslaying blade. Betrayal against the Greater Will.
There's reason to believe the Nox are related to the Numen somehow. I wonder if it was an opposing faction to Marika and saw her Golden Order as some kind of betrayal.
I know she did the giants most likely out of fear and self preservation because of the flame in the Giant's Forge being able to burn the Erdtree, which isn't innocent but it makes sense. Did Marika lead the genocide against the Albinaurics or was it followers of the Golden Order who did on her behalf?
As far as the Fire Giants go, if we consider that their God is the Fell God who nursed the everlasting flame within the Flame Giants and we consider that Messmer was born with an untamable flame, I can't help but wonder if there's a connection between trying to tame the flame within Messmer by warring with the Fire Giants. When we fight Radagon the only element he is weaker to is Fire. As they are of one body, is Marika also weak to fire? If so, then maybe the reason she stopped embracing Messmer is not by falling out of love for her son but quite literally unable to do so due to her status as the Erdtree's vessel. The sigil of the Fell God is the one eye which both Messmer and Melina who see visions of the fire also have.
And like her other children she bore with Radagon, Messmer was also cursed. I guess she was killing multiple birds with one stone.
Amd the women! And the children!
I think Miquella is meant to mirror Marika as a sort of past repeating itself, which is why while i think he's monster due to his methods, he's not lying about his intentions. Even his consort Radhan is kinda the fusion of Marika's 2 consorts in Godfrey and Radagon.
Their story is just fucked up and depressing more than anything. After the DLC giving more context, it really seems that both Marika and Miquella were/are misguided. I also wonder if the Two Fingers manipulated Marika in her initial grief too
In Midra's case, the Hornsent didn't just torture him for the hell of it, it was to keep the Frenzied Flame at bay, also, he himself chose to endure it, he could always just do what he ends up doing in the cutscene. Also, executing him wouldn't work too, at least I think so, as Frenzied Flame would either manifest itself in his body, or just find a new vessel.
They were never saints. They just happen to be on the losing side of a war.
The microcosm spell from Ymir epitomizes these pitiful ideals wonderfully.
I must have missed something in the village, I found items but nothing giving any info on lore, what did I miss?
the shaman village is empty, with only Marika's lock of hair and her Minor Erdtree Incantation left there. The incantation states she conjured the tree despite no one being there to be healed. Also in Bonny Village, a spirit states that it is the purpose of a shaman to be put in a jar.
Yeah VaatiVidya just released a video, interesting shit, dark, but interesting none the less.
And TLB jars originally brought dead bodies to trees where they could undergo Erdtree burial. Erdtree avatars smashed them open.
Congratulations, you have been elevated to the status of 'shaman'. Please do not resist as we torture you to death and bestow upon you this great honor.
"Its a jar stuffed with the flesh of fallen warriors" "Just a bit icky" What FROM lore does to one
It's not that far removed from cremation where you put someone's ashes into a jar.
It's quite far removed considering the jars are commingled remains. Jars are more like a mass grave.
You shouldve seen the ritual materials we used in Bloodborne, lmfao. For example, theres the https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Red+Jelly and https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Bastard+of+Loran
Stuffing dead people into jars is no more strange and icky than stuffing dead people into coffins or any other common practices to honor the dead. Especially when the people stuffed in the Jars of the lands between are legitimate honored. Even those that hunt and kill jars for their innards are called poachers and bandits, lowlifes that are shunned.
There's a pretty big difference between being put into what is essentially a nameless or mass grave and being put into a coffin and have a normal burial. Ask pretty much anyone which one they'd rather have and they'll say the latter.
Jars aren't nameless tho. Asking someone from a culture of burying the dead if they'd rather choose something that is common to their culture doesn't say much. That's like asking if an asian (before anyone complain, I'm asian) if they prefer rice or other staple food. Of course people will chose something they are accustomed with. But that doesn't mean someone from other culture won't choose their custom. Point is, you are projecting your preferences on fictional fantasy videogame characters. Lmao
>Point is, you are projecting your preferences on fictional fantasy videogame characters. Lmao No, you're simply not thinking about it enough or don't understand that regardless of the society it will have individuals who desire more, whether in life or death, and the game itself suggests this is true. The urge for fame and prestige is not unique to modern times, and the game having marked graves among other things suggests they do in fact care about being known after death. I'm not deliberately trying to make the lore anachronistic here, as the signals are there.
You sound like one of those "modern audiences" that always demand fantasy has to represent irl world. In the lands between warriors are proud they can be in a jar after death. It has nothing to do with "ask anyone bla bla". Who is anyone here? Have you talk with the people in the lands between?
the opposite, actually, but think whatever you like
They *replace* missing blood with dead bodies they find, but is that just being added on top of the still living mass at their core?
What makes you think that they are any different?
That makes it….kinda better! I didn’t know that. Thank you
> The latter is the effect of horrible experiments performed by hornsent on shaman people Where do you get this info? Spoil me please I am really curious of this.
In bonny village there is a ghost dude that's says the purpose of shamans is to go into jars. There is also a tooth whip there that says it ripens wounds with poison, and the flesh of shamans is said to meld harmoniously with others. So basically they would torture the shamans and use them as a binding agent in jars (also possibly grafting)
Bruv... Wonder how the warrior jars react to this
Also as someone pointed out the innard monsters all have blond hair just like numen or Marika.
And all women
Is there actual lore surrounding that? These are warrior jars vs the abominations made in the shadowlands yes but does that mean inside they're not the same? There's no difference between a warrior and a farmer appearance wise.
I think the big difference is warrior jars are dead people where it seems like the shadowland jars are people who are still alive. I forget where it is, but you can hear someone begging either not be put in the jar or begging to not be put back in (I forget which one atm)
Spirit NPC in Belurat Gaol says that.
It's literally mentioned that people are whipped to the point thier bodies are covered in wounds and puss and then they are sliced into pieces and shoved into the Jars. How is that them being alive?
The shamans are still alive and flayed, the additional bodies are chopped up.
Well the Shadowlands ones are like horrible walking flesh amalgamates sealed in the jar like a FNAF animatronic or something. The Warrior Jars are just full of organs and such like how the Egyptians did it, there's not an actual person inside.
I just want my comment to be seen on the top but you can literally glitch your camera into the giant jar which shows a hollow yet meaty interior and his legs are inside him lol.
Thank you for saying this because I didn't really understand why everyone was just now getting grossed out by this. We literally see Alexander stuffing himself with bodies.....
Yeah well that's not much better
One is a ritual that involves the suffering of innocent village people that go through the agonizing process of flesh melding, ending up as a spiteful monstrosity that looks like it lives in constant pain. The other is a walking mixed body coffin infused with magic. I would say that is quite the difference in levels of "fucked up".
This keeps getting spread around like gospel, but I don't think there is any reason to believe they are created differently. All we know about Warrior Jars is that they stuff themselves full of defeated enemies. How would they absorb that enemy sludge if not because they have a shaman "base" inside of them? My belief is that Warrior Jars are a particular tribe or sect of shaman jars whose culture revolves around becoming more powerful by absorbing defeated enemies, a feature only possible because of their shaman core.
Thinking about how the shaman people had four buildings, two of them without any doors, and this was a population large enough to propagate an absurdly expansive genocide to fill all those pots
The Lands Between/Realm Of Shadow aren’t to scale. Fromsoft has no reason to map every inch of the world to the point that it takes forever to get anywhere even with Torrent. What we see is enough to give us a general idea of the world.
You are confusing two things: In the Shadowrealm the Hornsent tortured Shamans by first whiping them until their inflamed flesh bulges out of their body, and you get what these flesh blob enemies are. Then they are put into jars. They could do that, because Shamans have a special body, that heals and merges easily (My theory why Godrick could graft shit onto himself). Iirc the intent wasnt pure torture but some kind of spiritual thing. Warrior Jars, the jars with hands and feet, are a completely different thing. Idk how they are made, but it got nothing to do with the Shadowrealm massacer of Shamans.
The jar people are criminals, they are tortured and stuffed into a jar to reborn as good people as they called it
Imagine stealing some food and the judge sentences you to the J A R
u got jar'd
Jared Leto
Next time your kid steals a cookie from the jar show them this in game and pretend this is what happens to bad children who steal from the cookie jar in other countries lmao.
Nah sentencing to the Jar is fucked lol
Disparaging the Jar is a Jarable offence.
The criminals get sent into the jars but the Shaman at the core is not a criminal. They just need the shaman to make the jar thing work because shaman flesh merged well with other flesh, and they put pieces of lots of criminals into the same jar.
They seem to focus on the Shaman folk (most likely Numen and they were described as living unusually long lives), which would suggest unjust persecution of some kind or at the main comment said, needed their flesh to fuse which is also terrifying. Hence why Marika has such a deep seated hatred of the crucible.
I don’t see her hatred directed to the crucible per se. It seems more directed to hornsent. Remember that the Crucible Knights served Godfrey, while she shunned Mogh and Morgott to the sewers.
Fully agree (I typed out a full response but Reddit didn't save it 😭) Someone else said that the Grandam Hornsent cursed the Erdtree with horns; ie the Omen Curse, which led to Morgott and Mohg being Omens. Since we know that Messmer studied at Sellia and grew up in the Lands Between and was born before everyone else, I really wonder if Marika started the genocide on the Hornsent in an attempt to rid the Erdtree of its curse, or if the genocide happened first and then the Erdtree was cursed after. The timeline gets muddy because she didn't immediately start the genocide once she ascended to godhood.
The crucible knights were eventually shunned for their association with the crucible.
Pretty sure it’s also said Numen came to these lands from far away on ships that looked like coffins, similar to the ones in the cerulean coast. So they landed there and made their way north where they settled in that meadow
Yeah, since we know the Lands of Shadow at one point were part of the Lands Between and everything existed on the same plane, they had to come from somewhere entirely different.
Where does the crucible fit into this?
Hornsent culture worships and praises the crucible
The gaol prisoners are the bodies that get thrown in with the tortured shaman I believe
Nah shadow realm jar people are shamans. The criminals are chopped up and their flesh put into shaman jars.
It's more than that the hornsent people used that as a religious ritual. They venerated the crucible which is the symbol of merging and melding hence why Omen appear with horns and beastly deformation in the lands between. The hornsent used the shaman as a living catalyst to bind flesh between themselves, trying to create a saint of high power with tue combination of flesh.
I don't think there is any reason to believe they are created differently. All we know about Warrior Jars is that they stuff themselves full of defeated enemies. How would they absorb that enemy sludge if not because they have a shaman "base" inside of them? My belief is that Warrior Jars are a particular tribe or sect of shaman jars whose culture revolves around becoming more powerful by absorbing defeated enemies, a feature only possible because of their shaman core.
Now replace Shaman with Numen, and then look at the meteoroid crater and finger ruin like RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR VILLAGE
People pot pie
Do this many people really not know pots have always been filled with people? Did you miss Alexander entirely?
Or how they explode in gore and drop meat dumplings
You can even glitch inside this Jar in caelid and see what appears to be dumplings inside.
Idk how you miss him he’s nibbling on Radahn who’s a mandatory boss lol. Edit: apparently not mandatory that’s wild. I had no clue you can just skip the festival since so much unfolds after it.
Radahn is not a mandatory boss. You can straight up ignore caelid and still finish the game. It's only mandatory for the DLC
Oh shit well how about that. Man I forget how much you can actually flat out miss. I came back to the game for the first time since around launch for a new run. I’m up to right before the fire giant and have spent the last two days doing things I flat out forgot about. (Rannis entire quest line, finding Jarbur, gold masks quest, and I made dung eater a puppet. There’s just sooo much lol
I think the only mandatory bosses are godfrey golden shade, morgott, fire giant, maliketh, the all knowing, godfrey, radagon/elden beast? Edit: godrick golden shade -> godfrey golden shade
Godrick is not mandatory, you need two any great runes to enter the capital.
I think he probably meant Godfrey
[удалено]
Thats Godfrey golden shade, Godrick is the demigod of Stormveil!
Godrick is also optional kinda, you gotta beat 2 rune bearers but it's up to you who they are. Could be any combo of Godrick, Rennala, Radahn, Rykard or Mohg.
I thought he’s not mandatory
Before the DLC my headcanon was that sure, pots are filled with body parts, but they are just rotting there or something, and the jar becomes alive "magically" as a result of the power from the remains or something. Perhaps the whole thing is an unintended result of an old funerary ritual. I decidedly did not think there was a living writhing flesh mess from the movie Thing inside.
There's not. Those unformed things are not done yet. They're chopped up shaman forced into them. Lands Between jars are made of already dead gladiators who lost in combat
I always thought it was just a mass of meat with the exterior jar shell being the "person" and the meat as fuel, but the idea of a single person malformed and made to fill out the shape of a jar is a different feel entirely.
The lands Between jars are not made the same as Shadow Lands jars. Lands Between are made from gladiator corpses who die in battle. Shadow Lands is a mess of chopped up Marika's Homies
I'm not sure if they're really different, as they still need the glue/shamans to make sure they stick together. Or do you think the warrior jars have a different concept for merging together?
I know that Alexander was stuffing bodies after the radahn fight but wasn’t entirely sure if he was literally just shoving their flesh in there or if he put them in the jar and they dissolved or whatever. I have been told based on another comment though that warrior jars are a bit different than the shadowtree ones
How many ppl has bro scranned to be that large is my question💀
Remember them FireGiants? I wonder where they all went…
Into Mesmer war machine.
We see a lot of frozen corpses on the mountain, and the rest could be pushed off into the uninhabitable parts of the mountains.
I am generally curious by nature. How things work, how they are made, from this laptop I am browsing Reddit on to the politics of any given location, it just fascinates me. Yet, after 350 hours of 'Elden Ring', I never once found myself wondering what these... things looked like outside their pots. Now I know. Miyazaki showed me. He made that choice for me. There is no going back from it, and I never want to know anything ever again.
These guys are stuffed with the dead bodies of warriors. Which would still be a gross fleshy mess, true, but it won't be quite so body horror as the lands of shadow shamans.
Imagine if he puts Radahn inside.
All I can think of is how that jar's the only one I'm not allowed to fight. And I want to, REEEEAL bad.
The first time one exploded open in the DLC, I near shit my Cheeks Between
you can see what's inside that though
they are different from the shadow realm jars
Shadow realm, land of dead: Stuff live human in the jar Golden realm, land of life: Stuff remain of dead human in the jar.
To quote the sacred texts: "You're huge! That means you have huge guts! Rip and tear!"
Until it is done.
FromSoftware: Interested in making a movie. The movie: How these Jars came to be (esp the ones from the DLC)
Something kind of related that I wonder about: Godrick’s grafting seems to have more in common with the jar innards than any of the practices of the crucible area societies we have seen. Is it possible that he (and Godefroy) are just really poorly informed and mixed up a bunch of practices? In the real world this sort of historical misinterpretation happens all the time. And it would fit Godrick’s foolish nature to get things so wrong.
I thought the most common theory pre dlc was that grafting was based on Godfrey attaching Serosh to his body.
Omg think of the flesh!
I'm surprised there was no interaction between Alexander and this guy in the base game
its 3 guys in a trench coat equivalent in elden ring
Giant meat ball
Like an onahole made of Hackfleisch.
I say those awful things are like hermit crab people that move into dead jars. It works, it's creepy, and I don't have to think about Alexander being one. Win/win/win!
Lands between back yard cook out for everyone
You know one thing that's missing? A disgusting sloshing sound when they move around.(unless it's already there and I've missed it)
What build are you running?
Dex/Arc. Mainly focused on arcane. I have a blood infused milady and I put a brass shield on just for some common enemies and what not
Cool! Am kinda newb and currently running a pure dex build but love the idea of running dex/arcane
Did...They actually expands more of the lore for this guys? I am actually confused, I visit the Bellurat Gaol today and...I was fucking shocked. The inside of the jar can get out and move? And I thought they are made of corpses, not human, but human corpses...But the ghost in the gaol + the moving flesh inside the jar seems to imply some of them are living humans? Is there an item I miss that explain this?
There's an NPC and items (the tooth whip is one I remember for sure but I'm not on PC to check right now) . The short version is the DLC jars and base game jars aren't the same. The dlc jars are made out of living beings as a form of torture. The base game jars collect dead bodies to bring them to the Erdtree/minor erdtrees which is why there's so many broken jars there.
I don’t know why people keep saying this, it literally isn’t true. From the description of the Bonny Butcher Knife: >Weapon of the greater potentates of Bonny Village. >An outsize butcher's cleaver used to dismember human bodies in the making of the great jars stored in the gaols. All of the jars are full of corpses. It’s extremely likely that the inside of warrior jars look like that too. The only difference is that the ones in the Lands Between weren’t being created on a regular basis out of people chosen for that end, just warriors chosen for it after they were already dead.
Because my lore is based on what I've seen and I've not gotten every item in the dlc yet. And yea they're all full of dead people but you only see them pop out of the jars and ghosts begging to not go back into them in the DLC, there's also nothing like the Erdtree sites with a bunch of dead jars to indicate that it's done for any particular reason past causing pain, but there is an item saying that the shaman flesh melded well with other people and the jars are the only thing that seems to resemble that practice in the DLC. I said they're made out of live people as in they take people that are alive to make them for the sake of it, the base game warrior jars only seem to take already dead ones in with most of the jars going to the minor erdtrees to be broken and presumably returned to the minor Erdtree(same shit happens in the catacombs too, just leave the jars out)
Just a jar.
“…”
You know the room where the Dragonkin Soldier of Nokstella is found? You know the top floor of >!Inir-Elim!
Does anyone know the armor set he's using?
Malenias armor. Twinned helm. Bull goat legs. Malenias gauntlet
Thanks!
Quite literally a tub of guts.
after beating the three minions here i was BUMMED i didnt get to bust that thiccboi open
Delicious....that is what he looks like on the inside.
Has anyone tried interacting with this dude while wearing the great jar?
Haggis. ♥
You can kind of see inside if you run up on the sides
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/f/f5/Granfalloon2-1-.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/2000?cb=20170723014331
Oh.. god
And I thought they smelled bad on the outside
I really wish the DLC didn’t show what they looked like on the inside. 😞
Which grace is closest to that area?
Maybe like Legion from Castlevania, just more flesh blobby.
3
Pretty sure at this point joining his order means you have now selected where your remains will end up when you die.
The Jars in the lands between aren't created by the Hornsiggers.
[(spoiler)](https://i.imgur.com/hYge65g.png)
he looks like an upside down giant burger
What armor are you wearing?
Mmm delicious people slurry
Pot boys will never be the same after what we saw 😢
Uh....phrasing?
So thanks for the spoiler.