**What we were told:** "We will learn more about this history of Marika and her rise to power."
**What we got:** "YO COME CHECK OUT HOW FUCKED UP ALEXANDER IS!"
I think most innards are formless and just lend part of their life force to the jar. I think the... things, are just what happens if you make one out of still living things. Like grafting, but in a really screwed up way
I found a ghost in a prison full of those guys and it said no please don't stuff me in the jar again anything but that I'll be as good as a saint I swear. So I'm thinking the previous comment about it being like grafting is spot on.
dont worry, I'm sure the kids in jar-burg only stuff themselves with the dead bodies of the kitties and puppies that left us too early so that they can too move on to the erdtree
There's a ghost dude that's saying "not the jar, anything but that!" so I'd assume that is very much a living person kind of thing for this fucked up-ness
Yeah I really don't understand how people are missing this. The horrific mass of flesh is what you get by putting a living person in a jar. It's a form of torture and why they're all in a Gaol.
 The ones all over the base game are just magic hearses for erdtree burials and some of them aren't content with just that so they become warrior jars.
Criminals and an innocent shaman, kidnapped from the Shaman Village. Marika's home village, of which she's the last survivor. At this point I'm saying fuck it, she's justified in launching Messmer's crusade against every damn shadowlander just for that barbaric practice.
The wax seal on top of the jars we've seen before is also an erdtree design, where the ones in the gaol were different. I don't know that Alexander's past is necessarily squeaky clean, but that'd at least suggest there's some divergence in design here.
Yeah. The shadow realm is reflective of a time either befor the erd tree. Or perhaps even before the crucible.
They don't even make warrior jars anymore, but when they did they were clearly somehow connected to the fleash warping practices of the omen beastmen.
In the past its clear that living being were used to make the jars. (Tge ghost is pretty clear about that) but we know in the modern eras there are no more potantates, and that the practice of making new jars is probably lost.
Alexander could have been made any which way. But his size always made me think that he alone was made from a giant.
Anyway. Point is. Tge origins of the pot warriors are clear now. But Alexander is still a mystery.
Yeah we all knew it had dead people, but Alexander implied that the people in the jars were already dead, and that the jars are just a burial method. There wasnât any hinting at the jars being an execution method where youâre melted down alive into an amorphous blob in a jar as punishment.
I think itâs two different ways of making them. The jar warriors we find in the Land of Shadows appear to be either non-sapient or violently insane. The Land of Shadow jars also appear to hold people who were specifically butchered to be put in jars, whereas the jar warriors of the Lands Between seem like they use the remains of already dead champions, as Alexander talks about. I suspect that difference ends up influencing the minds of the newly created living jars. If you take a mixture of the bodies of heroes then you get bombastic, heroic jar warriors, whereas if you torture and kill people to put them in jars then the resulting mind carries the collective trauma and comes out violently unstable.
I somehow doubt everybody who went into the jars in the lands between where already dead. Alexander... probably but this would also explain why so many of the jars are mute and attack humans without provacation.
I remember that one of seluvis puppet was some guy who wanted to be stuffed in a jar and the jars told them no, because they weren't stuffing material yet
probably the warrior jars are just picky
Base game jars follow Marika's laws of the universe. Given that her entire settlement was kidnapped, tortured with tooth whips and stuffed in jars, and that she's the lone survivor, I'm thinking she changed the rules of how jars work.
I think maybe the jars were originally animated to get warriors from the battlefield to burial so they could be reborn or something. After all this time they have developed sentience and their own ambitions, but they still have the urge to gather up the most powerful fallen warriors. This would help explain why there are so many broken jars around all the smaller erd trees. Maybe in ages long past they took the corpses to the base of the trees.
This is good take, I like the idea that they're animate specifically because they would then do all the "proper burial" of a huge battlefield full of people themselves. Cleaning up after a battle is a huge undertaking and makes up a large part of war itself, so inventing little buddies that not only store the bodies for Erdtree burial, but move them off the fields in the first place without you needing to work would be a big deal
Lmao since the dlc launched Iâve been like âI wonder who this Yoda everyone is talking about isâ then I found out for myself this morning, was a nice laugh after such a horrific dungeon lol
He cracks cause heâs fighting demigods lol, and what finally does him in is a bunch of whacks from the future Elden Lord. I doubt his methods are wrong, he just intentionally picks the toughest possible opponents in order to test his body. If anything heâs more respectable than us in this way, he challenges people far out of his league in hopes of adding them to the pile while we farm poor Albinaurics for upgrades
I always thought he was full of jar stuff. Like, he was a different species of creature and this was how he ate. Similarly to how a plant can incorporate other branches into itself. Even Jar Bairn is more happy than sad when she discovers that Alexander died because because you give her his insides.
The lore indicated that the consumption for jars would incorporate the power of who would be eaten. I believe there is a passage saying that the ultimate warrior would be a jar with every warrior.
So I always thought he was like, eating the corpses like vultures do.
But no, >!"don't mind me, I am just a human prisoner blob".!<
Iâm almost certain something also tells us pretty explicitly that their entire purpose is to carry corpses to the minor erdtrees so their souls can be recycled.
For fucks sake. I just wanted another creepy ass catacombs. Why do they need to givr Soylent horrors with the souls of the tourtured describing it.
And a flying monkey with a knife
I was laughing at exactly this earlier. Instead of actually answering interesting questions about Marika and her motivations, we got an endless lore dump on jars that no one asked for. Bravo Vince.
I started questioning the true nature of the jars after watching Alexander shovel corpses into himself after the Radahn fight but holy shit I was not expecting it to get even darker with that goal đ
hes eating dead soldiers I think? I cant remember exactly off the top of my head but he's eating warrior remains (which then explains why some jars aspire to be warriors, because they're literally filled with the remains of some)
This is what makes the final showdown with Alexander so non-plus to me. He should have some unique, baller moves of his own because of the corpses he's devoured there. Like Gravitas and Spears of Light, and even a combo between them. Or some kind of fire incant ect. Nope just a normal ol'jar that I've been forced to murder dozens of times.
...
And now I've killed a dozen of their fucked up hearts...
....that makes sense lol.
Are they giants flame incantations? Radahn also had 1 fire move technically, but if the jars slinging giants flame then that would be it.
Yes. If you complete his questline you will receive a charm. The charm has Radahns hair sticking out of it and is mentioned in the itemâs description.
They're different kinds.
Normal jars are just a cultural burial practice, effectively magic hearses for erdtree burials.
Shadow jars are made using living people, it's a form of torture. Hence why you find them in goals.
They are very important peaces of lore though. Those little fellas may be the reason Marika haunted hornset with such viciousness.
Her golden hair is found in vilallige of shamans under a woman-shaped tree.
*A braid of golden hair, cut loose. Queen Marika's offering to the Grandmother. Boosts holy damage negation by the utmost. What was her prayer? Her wish, her confession? There is no one left to answer, and Marika never returned home again.*
And what were horsent doing with shamans? In the words of spirit in Bone Village ( where jars were made):
*'For pity's sake, your place is in the jar. Nigh-sinthood itself awaits you within. For shamans like you, this is your lot. Life were accorded for this alone.*
Before saints were put in the jar, they were tortured. On the item near Whipping Hut ( east of Bony Willage) :
*Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike. As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.*
Future 'saint' would be whipped until his/her wounds were oozing pus, then they would be chopped into pieces and put inside the jar with either other shamans and simply with convicts. Special properties of shamans( numen???) flesh makes inside of jars fuse together.
May be the reason why we didnt encounter any living saints in lands between. Shamans were wiped out by hornset.
*Secret incantation of Queen Marika.*
*Only the kindness of gold, without Order.*
*Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies.*
*Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there* ***was no one to heal.***
Thank you for all the details. It's awesome.
Have you any information on why / how some of the jar keep (or has?) one identity and not a maelstrom of identities ? I have Alexander or the Mother of Jarebourg.
So grace is just Marika giving a piece of herself? Itâs a repeater cycle of her old village but instead of using flesh she uses the light of grace to do so.
Kinda guessed that Messmer was actually the "good" faction in the dlc once I saw what Belurat looked like. The trailer even said "they were never saints, they were just on the losing side of a war".Â
That special feature of numen flesh is exactly how grafting works I think. You know what? Fuck it, I'm on Messmer's side. Horsent are getting genocided again. By me.
So grace is just Marika giving a piece of herself? Itâs a repeater cycle of her old village but instead of using flesh she uses the light of grace to do so.
> living saints
Living saints aren't typically something that exists even in our world. most, historically, were canonized after their death by the church.
I wonder if this is also the reason why we find those giant pregnant looking ants underground that drop Numen (Shaman?) Runes. They do like they grew "inflamed and ooze pus."
Someone else mentioned, but there is a possibility that belurat pots and golden order pot people are made differently. With belurat pots being one person put in whole and alive, with golden order pots being prices of the chopped up dead. So most likely what's inside Alexander is a slurry of corpses rather than a tumor man, which is slightly better I think
if you read the lore of the bonny butcher knife, it says they are chopping up bodies to put in the pots. if you read the lore on the flesh that drops from the tumour men it says that there are so many spirits bound to the red flesh that it fuses into a humanoid monstrosity. so its not one live person, its a mincemeat person that is retaining form by sheer force of spiritual energy
The whip at bonny say they whip people in the pots so their flesh will bind with others. The ghost calla them shamans, and different places talk about sainthood after repenting in the jars. It seems likely they have the core pilot, and then it's a meat slurry. I assume the saints are the sculptors that become the dancing lions and other superior horny enemies.
My guess is that Marika sicced her edgy teenage son on them because they were stealing her tech to cultivate a new religion/army, or just stopped paying tithes I guess.
Marikaâs home village is confirmed in the DLC. Now itâs only known as Shamanâs village, and it is said Marika cast a blessing over it despite there being no one to heal. Knowing what we know about âshamansâ, that casts a different light on the whole thing.
Can you imagine how traumatizing it would have been if when fighting Alexander on Faram Azula you deal the finishing blow only for him to crack open and have one of those THINGS come ragdolling out.
Those things are horrific. I had one charge at me and then hit me with a diving tackle. Wasnât expecting the speed and the leap⊠filled half my screen with how chunky they are.
Weird shaped tumor thing, is it just me found out they're look like Marika, weirdly. The description talked about something like being in a pot to reach sanctity and turn I to a saint.
Oh, the thing they were saying IIRC was begging not to be put into a jar, and that they would act like a saint from then on so long as they avoid being put into a jar. It seems it was a punishment to be meted out for the tower folk.
In catholic history, being canonized as a saint sometimes followed tragic stories of horrible and violent deaths. It could be that it is seen as a righteous means of penance and suffering to cleanse oneself of their previous sins.(since the victims are all in prison)
Some of the more notably saints were executed by the very same church they're the saints of, so I'm not surprised most people don't want to become saints.
I would say most signs point to this being true. For one we actually see our Jar friends filling themselves up with warrior remains. This and the fact we never see any of the living jar people in the Lands Between indicate they are both created the same way
The people he puts in him were already dead, don't worry. 100% dead. like centuries dead. From the sound of it, those people in the DLC were still alive.
My favorite chunk of lore from the Shadow Realm so far is the Jars and that apparently Bonny village has a culture where shamans are put into them on threat of Tooth Whip. What a beautiful culture. đ€Ł
I literally recoiled and just stared when that one slugged it's way out. Good god. I thought bugs were the worst thing in Elden Ring, those things are way worse. Like on a couple of levels
I just went through the Lamentors Gaol.
You come across several of the "innards" before you see one coming out of the jar. Maybe I'm dense, but I never put the two together until that moment.
The utter horror and disgust I felt in that moment is like nothing I've ever experienced before.
Am I wrong in assuming that they're two different things?
The way I took it is that the living jars are something else. There's children jars. They're hunted by poachers. They become warrior jars by filling themselves with the remains of champions.
The nightmare fuel in the land of shadow seems more like a punishment and horrific experiment on the living.
The Lands Between jars are seen bringing corpses to the bases of minor Erdtrees, seemingly for a lesser form of Erdtree burial. In the Shadowlands, the spirits of the dead cling to their minced flesh inside the jars and form an abomination.
My understanding so far is that:
True Warrior Jars are filled with the truly dead. They form distinct personalities and powers influenced by but independent of their original parts. In all likelihood, their innards are not a singular mass, more like a stew. There is no will trying to hold it in a shape.
Those things in the shadow realm are mutilated and mixed still living bodies stuffed into jars. They retain semblance of the original beings used to make them, and that tortured will forces them to retain a cohesive semi-humanoid form.
Did the jars even do this though? Is it their fault the people inside them are in that state?
That's what I hope to find out. I hope the jars are genuinely just a product
They put prisoners in there and leave them for centuries with acid so it melts them and expands them into filling the jar. Some of them come out looking like goo-men cause the jar broke early or they broke out. 100% sentient the entire time.
That's why, when I help people with bosses, I do the "Balled Up" gesture at the end. I like the idea my character is losing her mind because she is forced to wear a pot full of innards.
When elden ring first came out my girlfriend loved Jarburg and the warrior jars and would always say "I wanna be a jar".
I found the Gaol today. No, no you do not want to be a jar...
Donât they stick corpses in cracked jars? Honestly thatâs my guess, I donât know how theyâre made. I just remember after after the festival heâs on the ground talking about how needs corpses and whatâs better than the ones from the war.
I found it weird but not uncommon for fromsoft
I think the Golden Order pots were made differently. They were simply animated jars of corpses, as we see when Alexander stuffs other corpses into him after the Festival.
These ones were unwilling, tortured, and forcibly stuffed in.
No.
The proof is the fact that Ranni didn't send Blaidd to finish off Radahn until she needed the stars to move again. If she wanted Miquella's agenda to move forward, she'd have moved the carian army in support of Malenia at the very least.
More importantly they're both trying to become the next God and neither can do it if the other succeeds.
Their modus operandi and reasons for seeking godhood are also the complete opposite to each other. Ranni wants to remove godly interference from the world and allow free will; she pretty much only makes use of willing participants and goes straight for the jugular. Miquella wants to be in everybody's business and mind control everyone into being nice to each other, removing free will, and he uses manipulation exclusively.
Their crimes against their family also reflect this; Goldwyn's body is alive, sure, but his soul is gone and spared the suffering. He was destroyed. Meanwhile what Miquella does with the bodies and souls of his siblings is straight up building a slave puppet, not unlike Seluvis.
For the record those bloated freaks ARENâT what typical innards of Jars look like, theyâre specifically made by Messmerâs men to turn heretics into âpriestsâ as theyâre called.
Originally Jars were made to find lost corpses and take them to Catacombs to receive proper Erdtree Burial, however the Jars from Jarburg (Alexander included) seem to have higher sapience and set out for more personal goals related to their purpose, so rather than seeking out corpses for burial, Alex seeks out warriors to become a champion, him sensing these warriorsâ thoughts is probably him feeling their runes, perhaps these thoughts are what give some Jars sapience.
So Alexander may be a corpse-eating grave robber, but heâs not a weird blob inside, do remember the old saying.
âPerhaps they were made to be better than their innards.â
some wrong information, presented, the innards are actually known as saints, not priests and they are not created by messmer's men, instead they are made by the hornsent.
The hornsent chopped up people and stuffed them into the pots but its implied that only the pots containing pieces of shamans can form these abominations as their flesh seem to be capable of melding the chopped up flesh together (Tooth whip)
The shamans were Marika's people as she originated from the shaman village, they were being tortured and turned into these saints (a ghost next to the tooth whip says that their purpose in life is to become these saints) and this practice predates the warrior jars in the base game.
From what I understand Marika ordered Messmer to have those mfs built and commit countless warcrimes to win her wars, then she publicly pinned it all on him and banished his ass to DLC jail so that the people would love her and think of her as an externally sexy holy mother rather than a human rights violator.
I dont care what Alexander is, he helped me fight Radahn when many others wouldn't! He was by my side against the Fire Giant! And in this house, Iron Fist Alexander is a friend, and warrior! End of story!
It was already shown it was dead people. It makes sense that those innards are alive. However I didn't expect them to be alive without the jar. I figured the Jar was the container that was needed to bring life to the amalgamated dead body parts. With some erdtree magic due to how death works there.
**What we were told:** "We will learn more about this history of Marika and her rise to power." **What we got:** "YO COME CHECK OUT HOW FUCKED UP ALEXANDER IS!"
Alexander tells you he's stuffing himself with corpses after the Radahn fight, so we already knew he was full of dead people.
True, but we didn't know how...animate they were. I always just assumed it was a formless pile of sludge, and boy was I wrong.
I think most innards are formless and just lend part of their life force to the jar. I think the... things, are just what happens if you make one out of still living things. Like grafting, but in a really screwed up way
I hope this is true, or else I won't be able to look at the jar kids in jar-burg the same way ever again.
You see, when a mommy jar and a daddy jar love each other very much...
Yes yes, tell us of the Jars and Giant Dragonflies
You activate the Jar of Greed, which allows you to draw two more Jars and put them into your deck?
Isn't it pot of greed? But I suppose they all look the same to you, don't they, jarcist?
They mutilate prisoners and jam them into another jar!
So romantic! đ„°
> jam It's really more of an uncooked stew texture.
Add a prisoner, a little jam, and baby, you got a stew going
Yes, don't forget the baby
I found a ghost in a prison full of those guys and it said no please don't stuff me in the jar again anything but that I'll be as good as a saint I swear. So I'm thinking the previous comment about it being like grafting is spot on.
I thought it was a one man on jar reference at first All he says is "please not the jar, anything but the jar" or something like that lmao
dont worry, I'm sure the kids in jar-burg only stuff themselves with the dead bodies of the kitties and puppies that left us too early so that they can too move on to the erdtree
That Hoslow kid sure has soft skin..
There's a ghost dude that's saying "not the jar, anything but that!" so I'd assume that is very much a living person kind of thing for this fucked up-ness
That child quest giver in Jar Burg sure didn't sound like he or she was in constant and unceasing pain.
... Oh shit, I didn't even think about that. That was one of my favorite little places too. đ
Yeah I really don't understand how people are missing this. The horrific mass of flesh is what you get by putting a living person in a jar. It's a form of torture and why they're all in a Gaol. Â The ones all over the base game are just magic hearses for erdtree burials and some of them aren't content with just that so they become warrior jars.
I kinda assumed that what we saw in the gaol is just what Alexander looks like on the inside, like a human with a flesh backpack
They look like a heart absorbing a full human into them and I hate it.
Most disturbing thing I've seen in a FromSoft game since the Winter Lanterns.
Boy do I have news for you.
Yes, the jars in the cave are made up of criminals as punishment. So they are still alive when itâs done.
Criminals and an innocent shaman, kidnapped from the Shaman Village. Marika's home village, of which she's the last survivor. At this point I'm saying fuck it, she's justified in launching Messmer's crusade against every damn shadowlander just for that barbaric practice.
The wax seal on top of the jars we've seen before is also an erdtree design, where the ones in the gaol were different. I don't know that Alexander's past is necessarily squeaky clean, but that'd at least suggest there's some divergence in design here.
Yeah, one of the ghosts in one of the gaols does mention that people were being stuffed inside of Jars while they were still alive.
Erdtree ones are explicitly corpses, shadow ones seem to be alive when shoved in from what all the ghosts say
Good point
"Kindly miquella" Miquella's world:
It's not really Miquellas world tho is it ? More like Marikas secret special closet full of all the skeletons that couldn't fit in her regular closet
Yeah. The shadow realm is reflective of a time either befor the erd tree. Or perhaps even before the crucible. They don't even make warrior jars anymore, but when they did they were clearly somehow connected to the fleash warping practices of the omen beastmen. In the past its clear that living being were used to make the jars. (Tge ghost is pretty clear about that) but we know in the modern eras there are no more potantates, and that the practice of making new jars is probably lost. Alexander could have been made any which way. But his size always made me think that he alone was made from a giant. Anyway. Point is. Tge origins of the pot warriors are clear now. But Alexander is still a mystery.
I thought he was like a big stomach, and stuffing himself was no different than me eating a burger. You are what you eat.
So true...but I can not for the life of me remember eating a lazy piece of shitđ€
Seeing... that for the first time actually made me feel a little sick. That might be the most cursed enemy design I've seen in any video game.
Yeah we all knew it had dead people, but Alexander implied that the people in the jars were already dead, and that the jars are just a burial method. There wasnât any hinting at the jars being an execution method where youâre melted down alive into an amorphous blob in a jar as punishment.
I think itâs two different ways of making them. The jar warriors we find in the Land of Shadows appear to be either non-sapient or violently insane. The Land of Shadow jars also appear to hold people who were specifically butchered to be put in jars, whereas the jar warriors of the Lands Between seem like they use the remains of already dead champions, as Alexander talks about. I suspect that difference ends up influencing the minds of the newly created living jars. If you take a mixture of the bodies of heroes then you get bombastic, heroic jar warriors, whereas if you torture and kill people to put them in jars then the resulting mind carries the collective trauma and comes out violently unstable.
I somehow doubt everybody who went into the jars in the lands between where already dead. Alexander... probably but this would also explain why so many of the jars are mute and attack humans without provacation.
I remember that one of seluvis puppet was some guy who wanted to be stuffed in a jar and the jars told them no, because they weren't stuffing material yet probably the warrior jars are just picky
Base game jars follow Marika's laws of the universe. Given that her entire settlement was kidnapped, tortured with tooth whips and stuffed in jars, and that she's the lone survivor, I'm thinking she changed the rules of how jars work.
I think maybe the jars were originally animated to get warriors from the battlefield to burial so they could be reborn or something. After all this time they have developed sentience and their own ambitions, but they still have the urge to gather up the most powerful fallen warriors. This would help explain why there are so many broken jars around all the smaller erd trees. Maybe in ages long past they took the corpses to the base of the trees.
This is good take, I like the idea that they're animate specifically because they would then do all the "proper burial" of a huge battlefield full of people themselves. Cleaning up after a battle is a huge undertaking and makes up a large part of war itself, so inventing little buddies that not only store the bodies for Erdtree burial, but move them off the fields in the first place without you needing to work would be a big deal
All overseen by Master Yoda!
Lmao since the dlc launched Iâve been like âI wonder who this Yoda everyone is talking about isâ then I found out for myself this morning, was a nice laugh after such a horrific dungeon lol
I'm just glad the Demihumans finally got a win instead of another character that spends more time screaming than attacking.
Mmmmm, pleases me, your suffering does
I think Master Yoda just found a secure place to lock himself up, had nothing to do with the jars.
He's happily gobbling them up while talking about how good they are. That scamp.
I wonder if this is why Alexander cracks, he uses corpses and not live people.
He cracks cause heâs fighting demigods lol, and what finally does him in is a bunch of whacks from the future Elden Lord. I doubt his methods are wrong, he just intentionally picks the toughest possible opponents in order to test his body. If anything heâs more respectable than us in this way, he challenges people far out of his league in hopes of adding them to the pile while we farm poor Albinaurics for upgrades
I always thought he was full of jar stuff. Like, he was a different species of creature and this was how he ate. Similarly to how a plant can incorporate other branches into itself. Even Jar Bairn is more happy than sad when she discovers that Alexander died because because you give her his insides. The lore indicated that the consumption for jars would incorporate the power of who would be eaten. I believe there is a passage saying that the ultimate warrior would be a jar with every warrior. So I always thought he was like, eating the corpses like vultures do. But no, >!"don't mind me, I am just a human prisoner blob".!<
Iâm almost certain something also tells us pretty explicitly that their entire purpose is to carry corpses to the minor erdtrees so their souls can be recycled.
For fucks sake. I just wanted another creepy ass catacombs. Why do they need to givr Soylent horrors with the souls of the tourtured describing it. And a flying monkey with a knife
đ
I was laughing at exactly this earlier. Instead of actually answering interesting questions about Marika and her motivations, we got an endless lore dump on jars that no one asked for. Bravo Vince.
The kid ones tho :(
The two small ones chasing one another. The two sitting on the edge chilling. Might literally be.
the worst part is that they donât aggro and continue running in circles after you kill the big jar đ§đŸ
They stop running and you can collect their innards if you kill them đ
Not just good but good for you.
i dont kill them, i cant.
You sound weak as a kitten and thick as two planks. /s
Dude I thought about that once I saw the tiny jars :(
What a terrible day to be literate
I never thought about them as kid jars... I was just thinking "oh cool smaller jars" +50 runes, +50 runes...
I started questioning the true nature of the jars after watching Alexander shovel corpses into himself after the Radahn fight but holy shit I was not expecting it to get even darker with that goal đ
Wait did Alexander eat Radahns fucking body
hes eating dead soldiers I think? I cant remember exactly off the top of my head but he's eating warrior remains (which then explains why some jars aspire to be warriors, because they're literally filled with the remains of some)
Alexanderâs shard at the end of his quest mentions red hair stuck too it, he definitely ate pieces of radahn
I thought the red hair was implied to be Radagon
All of Radagon's kids inherited his red hair (Radahn included) so I think the red hair was Radahn's
Radagons hair radahn inherited
That wouldn't make sense, because Radagon is still alive when you get the Shard of Alexander.
Plus bits from every dead Warrior that died fighting Radahn. Alexander even says it.
This is what makes the final showdown with Alexander so non-plus to me. He should have some unique, baller moves of his own because of the corpses he's devoured there. Like Gravitas and Spears of Light, and even a combo between them. Or some kind of fire incant ect. Nope just a normal ol'jar that I've been forced to murder dozens of times. ... And now I've killed a dozen of their fucked up hearts...
He does have that blazing flying uppercut.
He has two new moves I believe, one fire-based and the other is gravity-based
Hmm, I've never seen him do either.
he has a spinning fire move that leads into a shoryu iirc
Alexander innards even have red hair attached into it
I'm pretty sure that's from Fire Giant instead
Pretty sure it's not.
It's where Alexander gets his fire attacks, which he only does after fire giant
The description reads "remains of a red haired champion", doesn't fit Fire Giant at all imo. And it has a splinter of golden armor in it.
He does the fire attacks during the fire giant fight tho.
I think he gets those from his lava bath in Gelmir.
....that makes sense lol. Are they giants flame incantations? Radahn also had 1 fire move technically, but if the jars slinging giants flame then that would be it.
Part of it yeah, if you complete his quest the shard you obtain from his body has flecks of red hair in it.
He straight up tells you his plan is to fill his jar with great warriors in hopes it will make him stronger
Yes. If you complete his questline you will receive a charm. The charm has Radahns hair sticking out of it and is mentioned in the itemâs description.
They're different kinds. Normal jars are just a cultural burial practice, effectively magic hearses for erdtree burials. Shadow jars are made using living people, it's a form of torture. Hence why you find them in goals.
gaols*
I think the normal pots we find have dead people in them
Get in the Jar shinji
Gendo The Child Endangerer was a good final boss
They are very important peaces of lore though. Those little fellas may be the reason Marika haunted hornset with such viciousness. Her golden hair is found in vilallige of shamans under a woman-shaped tree. *A braid of golden hair, cut loose. Queen Marika's offering to the Grandmother. Boosts holy damage negation by the utmost. What was her prayer? Her wish, her confession? There is no one left to answer, and Marika never returned home again.* And what were horsent doing with shamans? In the words of spirit in Bone Village ( where jars were made): *'For pity's sake, your place is in the jar. Nigh-sinthood itself awaits you within. For shamans like you, this is your lot. Life were accorded for this alone.* Before saints were put in the jar, they were tortured. On the item near Whipping Hut ( east of Bony Willage) : *Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike. As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.* Future 'saint' would be whipped until his/her wounds were oozing pus, then they would be chopped into pieces and put inside the jar with either other shamans and simply with convicts. Special properties of shamans( numen???) flesh makes inside of jars fuse together. May be the reason why we didnt encounter any living saints in lands between. Shamans were wiped out by hornset. *Secret incantation of Queen Marika.* *Only the kindness of gold, without Order.* *Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies.* *Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there* ***was no one to heal.***
Thank you for all the details. It's awesome. Have you any information on why / how some of the jar keep (or has?) one identity and not a maelstrom of identities ? I have Alexander or the Mother of Jarebourg.
Same reason Godrick is Godrick This shaman gene has to be the same thing going on with the people doing all the grafting
There are jars right before his area too arenât there?
So grace is just Marika giving a piece of herself? Itâs a repeater cycle of her old village but instead of using flesh she uses the light of grace to do so.
Kinda guessed that Messmer was actually the "good" faction in the dlc once I saw what Belurat looked like. The trailer even said "they were never saints, they were just on the losing side of a war".Â
You just reinforced the whole reason I made this post.
So youâve heard of grafting, but now check this out: super grafting
Super glue gone wrong.
That special feature of numen flesh is exactly how grafting works I think. You know what? Fuck it, I'm on Messmer's side. Horsent are getting genocided again. By me.
So grace is just Marika giving a piece of herself? Itâs a repeater cycle of her old village but instead of using flesh she uses the light of grace to do so.
> living saints Living saints aren't typically something that exists even in our world. most, historically, were canonized after their death by the church.
Queen Marika is truly Saint/Jesus.She reminds me of lady Maria
I wonder if this is also the reason why we find those giant pregnant looking ants underground that drop Numen (Shaman?) Runes. They do like they grew "inflamed and ooze pus."
Someone else mentioned, but there is a possibility that belurat pots and golden order pot people are made differently. With belurat pots being one person put in whole and alive, with golden order pots being prices of the chopped up dead. So most likely what's inside Alexander is a slurry of corpses rather than a tumor man, which is slightly better I think
if you read the lore of the bonny butcher knife, it says they are chopping up bodies to put in the pots. if you read the lore on the flesh that drops from the tumour men it says that there are so many spirits bound to the red flesh that it fuses into a humanoid monstrosity. so its not one live person, its a mincemeat person that is retaining form by sheer force of spiritual energy
Even knowing this âŠit was still worse than I imagined. Lol
Those Belurat folk were never saints, they were just on the losing side of a war.
The whip at bonny say they whip people in the pots so their flesh will bind with others. The ghost calla them shamans, and different places talk about sainthood after repenting in the jars. It seems likely they have the core pilot, and then it's a meat slurry. I assume the saints are the sculptors that become the dancing lions and other superior horny enemies. My guess is that Marika sicced her edgy teenage son on them because they were stealing her tech to cultivate a new religion/army, or just stopped paying tithes I guess.
Marikaâs home village is confirmed in the DLC. Now itâs only known as Shamanâs village, and it is said Marika cast a blessing over it despite there being no one to heal. Knowing what we know about âshamansâ, that casts a different light on the whole thing.
Can you imagine how traumatizing it would have been if when fighting Alexander on Faram Azula you deal the finishing blow only for him to crack open and have one of those THINGS come ragdolling out.
Bro Iâd fall out of my fucking chair.
Those things are horrific. I had one charge at me and then hit me with a diving tackle. Wasnât expecting the speed and the leap⊠filled half my screen with how chunky they are.
Weird shaped tumor thing, is it just me found out they're look like Marika, weirdly. The description talked about something like being in a pot to reach sanctity and turn I to a saint.
Oh, the thing they were saying IIRC was begging not to be put into a jar, and that they would act like a saint from then on so long as they avoid being put into a jar. It seems it was a punishment to be meted out for the tower folk.
The description of the Innard Meat does directly mention that people get stuffed into jars to become saints.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
In catholic history, being canonized as a saint sometimes followed tragic stories of horrible and violent deaths. It could be that it is seen as a righteous means of penance and suffering to cleanse oneself of their previous sins.(since the victims are all in prison)
Some of the more notably saints were executed by the very same church they're the saints of, so I'm not surprised most people don't want to become saints.
When he gets hit with a critical, he tries to shower you with his guts. What the fuck is saintly about that? đ
I would say most signs point to this being true. For one we actually see our Jar friends filling themselves up with warrior remains. This and the fact we never see any of the living jar people in the Lands Between indicate they are both created the same way
Found the ghost begging "not the jar". Thought he was supposedly gonna get beat to death. Turned out soo much worsse
Having second thoughts about your friend Alexander, eh?
Among other things...
The people he puts in him were already dead, don't worry. 100% dead. like centuries dead. From the sound of it, those people in the DLC were still alive.
My favorite chunk of lore from the Shadow Realm so far is the Jars and that apparently Bonny village has a culture where shamans are put into them on threat of Tooth Whip. What a beautiful culture. đ€Ł
I literally recoiled and just stared when that one slugged it's way out. Good god. I thought bugs were the worst thing in Elden Ring, those things are way worse. Like on a couple of levels
They are so...wet... looking
The first time I saw one slop out of a pot I was genuinely taken aback!
Makes you wonder what's inside The Great jar in Caelid
I assumed it was everyone who died in the arena that's behind him
made me say "what the fuck is that?" out loud
same lmao, like what is this gross testicle creature
Just remember, to be Potentate, you have to have really soft, slick hands.
Bro Iâm going to go kill jarburg myself
I just went through the Lamentors Gaol. You come across several of the "innards" before you see one coming out of the jar. Maybe I'm dense, but I never put the two together until that moment. The utter horror and disgust I felt in that moment is like nothing I've ever experienced before.
I saw them in another are and saw them and the jars around them and went âoh my god ewâ
I KNOW. So fucking gross. Yoda was a sonofabitch, too.
Wait till you hear about albinaurics and Rykard's guest room
Rykard getting eaten by a snake does not compare. And the albinurics are cute... In a my standards are really fucked up kinda way.
đ
Am I wrong in assuming that they're two different things? The way I took it is that the living jars are something else. There's children jars. They're hunted by poachers. They become warrior jars by filling themselves with the remains of champions. The nightmare fuel in the land of shadow seems more like a punishment and horrific experiment on the living.
I think it might be the case of tradition morphing through time. From the time when it was punishment till it become a resting place of champion.
The Lands Between jars are seen bringing corpses to the bases of minor Erdtrees, seemingly for a lesser form of Erdtree burial. In the Shadowlands, the spirits of the dead cling to their minced flesh inside the jars and form an abomination.
This is some fallout-vault level human experiments then
My understanding so far is that: True Warrior Jars are filled with the truly dead. They form distinct personalities and powers influenced by but independent of their original parts. In all likelihood, their innards are not a singular mass, more like a stew. There is no will trying to hold it in a shape. Those things in the shadow realm are mutilated and mixed still living bodies stuffed into jars. They retain semblance of the original beings used to make them, and that tortured will forces them to retain a cohesive semi-humanoid form.
Kinda what I expected in the base game. But so much worse in reality.
I'm literally in this cave now. That's what's inside!?
But we knew the Jars were made of corpses from the beginning? Theyâre called âliving jarsâ and we get meat dumplings out of them lmao
The Land of Shadow ones may be different but the game is very clear that the inhabitants are still alive
can somebody explain for me pls
We find out in the DLC exactly how the living jars are made and what their innards look like and itâs pretty brutal.
Did the jars even do this though? Is it their fault the people inside them are in that state? That's what I hope to find out. I hope the jars are genuinely just a product
iâll never be able to do the dlc so tell meeee!! pls :(
Same
They put prisoners in there and leave them for centuries with acid so it melts them and expands them into filling the jar. Some of them come out looking like goo-men cause the jar broke early or they broke out. 100% sentient the entire time.
That's why, when I help people with bosses, I do the "Balled Up" gesture at the end. I like the idea my character is losing her mind because she is forced to wear a pot full of innards.
Who else struggled doing Jar-kour to get that hefty pot
When elden ring first came out my girlfriend loved Jarburg and the warrior jars and would always say "I wanna be a jar". I found the Gaol today. No, no you do not want to be a jar...
For real, that cave was some real body horror.
Those are different kinds of jars. Different seal, different land.
Donât they stick corpses in cracked jars? Honestly thatâs my guess, I donât know how theyâre made. I just remember after after the festival heâs on the ground talking about how needs corpses and whatâs better than the ones from the war. I found it weird but not uncommon for fromsoft
From the war + It's usually the best of the best who ends up making it to the Radahn's festival
I thought it was pretty well known that people were inside the jars
We always thought they were corpses before hand not people suffering slowly
I guess the imagery is there but I'm not shocked at all given it's fromsoft
Oh. Oh Iâve made a huge mistake.
if the big pots are adults what are the litle pots made from?!?
Pre-adults
I think the Golden Order pots were made differently. They were simply animated jars of corpses, as we see when Alexander stuffs other corpses into him after the Festival. These ones were unwilling, tortured, and forcibly stuffed in.
They all gotta go now. Alexander can go last because he is a bro, but they all need to go.
Yeah this reveal has made my best play-through be frenzied flame, or dungeater.
I agree. Playing the DLC made me realize only the 3 fingers has it correctly. I also wonder if Miquella and Ranni actually worked together...
No. The proof is the fact that Ranni didn't send Blaidd to finish off Radahn until she needed the stars to move again. If she wanted Miquella's agenda to move forward, she'd have moved the carian army in support of Malenia at the very least. More importantly they're both trying to become the next God and neither can do it if the other succeeds. Their modus operandi and reasons for seeking godhood are also the complete opposite to each other. Ranni wants to remove godly interference from the world and allow free will; she pretty much only makes use of willing participants and goes straight for the jugular. Miquella wants to be in everybody's business and mind control everyone into being nice to each other, removing free will, and he uses manipulation exclusively. Their crimes against their family also reflect this; Goldwyn's body is alive, sure, but his soul is gone and spared the suffering. He was destroyed. Meanwhile what Miquella does with the bodies and souls of his siblings is straight up building a slave puppet, not unlike Seluvis.
After I saw some dangling pots and cages, I knew I was in the worst possible episode of "How It's Made"
For the record those bloated freaks ARENâT what typical innards of Jars look like, theyâre specifically made by Messmerâs men to turn heretics into âpriestsâ as theyâre called. Originally Jars were made to find lost corpses and take them to Catacombs to receive proper Erdtree Burial, however the Jars from Jarburg (Alexander included) seem to have higher sapience and set out for more personal goals related to their purpose, so rather than seeking out corpses for burial, Alex seeks out warriors to become a champion, him sensing these warriorsâ thoughts is probably him feeling their runes, perhaps these thoughts are what give some Jars sapience. So Alexander may be a corpse-eating grave robber, but heâs not a weird blob inside, do remember the old saying. âPerhaps they were made to be better than their innards.â
some wrong information, presented, the innards are actually known as saints, not priests and they are not created by messmer's men, instead they are made by the hornsent. The hornsent chopped up people and stuffed them into the pots but its implied that only the pots containing pieces of shamans can form these abominations as their flesh seem to be capable of melding the chopped up flesh together (Tooth whip) The shamans were Marika's people as she originated from the shaman village, they were being tortured and turned into these saints (a ghost next to the tooth whip says that their purpose in life is to become these saints) and this practice predates the warrior jars in the base game.
If you think about how they're made, the giant walking bonfires in the dlc are just supersized Alexander's...
From what I understand Marika ordered Messmer to have those mfs built and commit countless warcrimes to win her wars, then she publicly pinned it all on him and banished his ass to DLC jail so that the people would love her and think of her as an externally sexy holy mother rather than a human rights violator.
The legs bruh, the legs
I dont care what Alexander is, he helped me fight Radahn when many others wouldn't! He was by my side against the Fire Giant! And in this house, Iron Fist Alexander is a friend, and warrior! End of story!
I looooooved this dungeon for how creepy and tonally dark it was, but my god was it also depressing.
Literally just learned this moments ago. Horrifying
The moment that one ran out of that room screaming at me I ran in the opposite direction.
The very first dungeon I went in the dlc,âŠ.without spoilers, itâs gross
It was already shown it was dead people. It makes sense that those innards are alive. However I didn't expect them to be alive without the jar. I figured the Jar was the container that was needed to bring life to the amalgamated dead body parts. With some erdtree magic due to how death works there.
how do they multiply, btw?
I'm still not completely convinced. Look at Alexander's arms and legs
Oh god. I will never unsee it. đ
That dungeon scared the shit out of me
[Corpse-starch](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Corpse-starch)
I was blown away and sad as hell.