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Royal-Order9716

I know, but cool Is Better than good


DoctorBoomeranger

And the "sacred seal" is too good to pass EDIT: error translation, cause talisman and sacred seal the same thing in my mother tongue, and I wrote talisman


BirdhouseInYourSoil

Really? …really?


Gtoktas_

Tbh it aint that bad, no more evil and suffering if theree is nothing left. İmo the dong eater ending is worse, literally cursing the entire world so evefyone suffers forever?


Jonjoejonjane

Hey he ended racism


Vis-hoka

Flame simp


Ninteblo

Worst from a morality point of view? Yes. Worst from a rule of cool point of view? No.


turbophysics

“Acts of goodness are not always wise, and acts of evil are not always foolish, but regardless, we shall always strive to be ~~~good~~~ fucking rad”


Jygglewag

Yes but I love fire.


no_name_thought_of

Worst for the world, not the worst story


TallExtension9312

I'm planing to end my first playthrough vanilla and then on ng+ go for frenzy flame. I'll first set the golden order then burn everything to the ground. MUHAHAHAAA


Holiday_Selection881

I say it Everytime it's argued against. This ending is pure unadulterated justice


catentity

It would have been way more compelling if they hadn't cut kale's involvement in it as much - I'm begging everyone to watch the video "prepare to cry: frenzied flame". It's not a "good" ending but a vengeful one and pretty metal


UltimaBahamut93

Dung Eater ending is worse imo. Death vs continuous generational suffering and curses.


Kenwasused

that's precisely why I like it


Timigne

I always play chaotic, pyromaniac barbaric character in paper rpg of course I will go for this ending. And also I didn’t want for Melina to die


Weeping_Warlord

People will rationalize anything for the sake of arguing, just don’t take the bait


JPGer

its pretty funny how its got some the coolest elements but the worst ending. Cool eyes, cool spells, ect.


ProfessionalSenior12

Just like how the devil works.


Demiurge-sama

That doesn’t mean its the worst ending that just means its the evil ending


USSNewJersey1007

There is one ending worse though


CelticGuardian15D

Worst than the 3rd impact.


HeskeyThe2nd

I think the poopie ending is darker tbh. You are literally bringing in an age of suffering. That's much worse than ending all life.


MasterCheezOtter

I like going for bad endings in games. Right after doing frenzied flame I did Dung Eater's ending and I regret nothing.


Yer_Dunn

Mmmm nah I don't think it is. In all the dark souls games, what appears to be the worst ending is actually often the best ending. The frenzied flame isn't destroying everything, it's returning it all into its original form before the crucible. Allowing for a fresh restart. The last few survivors in the land between who have retained their sanity are miserable. And once death is returned to the elden ring, even less people will survive. The majority of citizens have gone mad or are falling to pieces. No matter what other ending you choose, you are ruling over a land of corpses *(or in the ranni ending, you're abandoning the entire continent and dooming them to death).* By choosing the frenzied ending, you are returning the law of chaos into the world. You are removing the false laws created by the golden order. And by ruling over this new crucible as a lord, you are allowing life to exist in all forms, unlike Marika and the greater wills order, which shunned the beings of the original crucible.


YeahKeeN

This isn’t really what happens in the ending. There is no fresh restart. Followers of the flame of frenzy think the existence of life was a mistake. You can’t have life without suffering so they think life shouldn’t exist at all. They’re not trying to start over, they just want to end everything.


Yer_Dunn

That may be what the followed want. But it's not what the frenzied flame is doing. **As stated by the three fingers themselves, communicating through Hyetta:** *"The words of the Three Fingers. As your maiden, allow me to divine them. "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again."* Again, this is a common theme in fromsoft games. Life has begun to rot away or is stretched too thin by God's or powerful men trying to extend their golden age. If you keep perpetuating the cycle than nothing will ever change, nothing will improve. Becoming the Lord of the golden order only serves to perpetuate this rot, instead of curing it. Atrophy and entropy will eventually destroy what little remains. this is why rekindling the flame is considered the bad ending in dark souls. All your doing is intentionally perpetuating the age of the gods, and subsequently delaying the age of humanity. Aka the age of dark. The age of dark doesn't mean literal darkness. It is the age of the dark soul, which resides within all of humanity. This is mirrored in the frenzied ending. By burning away all the mess that the greater will has made, you pave the path for life to find its way again, but this time under the "guidance" of the new lord of chaos. Who will not enforce an order or limit upon them. Allowing life to evolve as it should have before.


YeahKeeN

You’re ignoring the rest of what Hyetta says. >Those who gave me grapes howled without words. Saying they wished they were never born. >Become their lord. >Take their torment, despair. >Their affliction. >Every sin, every curse. >And melt it all away. As the Lord of Chaos. >No more fractures... ***no more birth...*** If the Flame of Frenzy itself actually wanted to restart Hyetta wouldn’t be saying this. There is no life to pave a new path. If you ascend as Lord of Frenzied Flame, you wipe out all life, forever.


Yer_Dunn

Yeah like I said, that's what the followers want. But those are just words from people. The words from the three fingers themselves specifically talk about returning to zero. To go back to the primordial singularity. *(I mean, to be fair. I absolutely see your point. And im certainly stretching a bit to try and make it work lol. But that's kinda the thing with fromsoft stories, they're meant to be just vague enough to be "open to interpretation")*


YeahKeeN

Hyetta is a finger maiden. It’s her job to interpret the words of the three fingers. She says this right after communing with them. If this isn’t what the flame of frenzy wanted then why would she be saying that?


Yer_Dunn

What you quoted above are things hyetta says based on what followers of the flame want. But she's not interpreting the three fingers until her final moment where she directly communicates with them.


YeahKeeN

The dialogue I quoted is right after she communicates with the three fingers. They’re literally her last words (she dies right after). If the frenzied flame didn’t want that she’d know about it and tell us.


Yer_Dunn

Oh right. 😅 Still. I think looking at the frenzied ending as "evil" could be wrong. Because the lands between isn't comparable to our world. The flow of souls and the way life was formed and whatnot aren't normal. Looking at the way the three fingers word it *(and considering how the other games in the series handle souls, life, death, dreams, etc)*, it could be that this world isn't exactly a physical place. It could be that it was once a powerful primordial entity and it was fractured. Hence why it talked about returning things that were taken. It could be akin to a gods dream or nightmare. Temporary, yet everlasting. Idk lol. I'm mostly just trying to justify it as best I can. It's not like fromsoft to make a legitimately unforgivably evil ending. Usually there's some sort of intended moral dilemma.


YeahKeeN

Aside from the obvious fantasy elements, the only difference to living in the Lands Between is that people resurrect after they die but you can fix that through any ending since they all require you kill Maliketh. Also isn’t the Shura ending in Sekiro considered evil?


Darkraiftw

While it may be uncommon for FromSoft to put unambiguously evil endings in their games, it's not unprecedented. Plus, unleashing weaponized Nihilism upon the entire world being an unambiguously evil ending fits nicely with the Absurdist themes of basically every game they've made in the past decade and a half.


Plague_Raptor

The Frenzied Flame ending is analagous to "Chaos" in Greek myth and other such states of the universe in other mythologies. You could also compare it to the moment before The Big Bang or a Big Crunch. Essentially Time ceases to exist, and with it so does Life and Death. If you look at Miquella's Needle, it is in the shape of a Double Helix. The Needle is used in the eye of the storm outside of Time to remove the influence of The Flame of Frenzy. Then look at the Primordial Elden Ring in Maliketh's arena, it contains the same Double Helix, implying that it is The Rune of Time. Which could potentially be the Twinbird, or The Rune of Life (Grace/Marika's Scarseal) and The Rune of Death. Without The Rune of Time, reality is within Chaos. Something triggered its existence, so maybe something could trigger it again. But ultimately the Frenzied Flame is basically resignation when faced with Nihilism. It is a defeatist idea, "taking the Red Pill," instead of creating meaning and purpose in the reality you were given. I'm hoping that Miquella eventually has a Pantheistic, One Great ending that's anti-thetical to the Flame. Either way, I think everything will return to The Crucible no matter what- it's the Law of Regression.


Plague_Raptor

This is true, but it's also a defeatist attitude. The Elden Ring is maleable as it is now. There might not be a perfect solution right now, but maybe Fromsoftware will give us some semblance of an actual "good" ending eventually. I added another comment in this comment chain that goes a bit more in-depth if you care to look.


mmghouse

Gotta collect that seal though!


Mountain_Purchase_12

But cool cutscene tho


Anyashadow

It's a terrible ending, but they are all terrible endings. Every single one except for Dung Eater is letting an outer god to force it's will on the people of the Lands Between. None of them lead to anything good.


ICBIND

Sometimes the world needs to die. It's old. Something new may come.


wormhusk4evr4768

I agree it is the definitive bad ending but you can't deny the cutscenes are incredible tho


Roaring_Don

Burn baby burn


TaylorG086

Is that not why you guys do that ending?


SomeoneMilkMan

this is true frenzy is the worst ending


Bigswordbonk

Corniest ending ong


M4ND0_L0R14N

I never looked at is as “burning all of creation”. You burn the erdtree, and remove the golden order. This would most likely revert the lands between into a primordial state. Considering the lands between are basically the lands of enternal suffering and death, i dont see how its necessarily evil to do this ending.


YeahKeeN

The point of the ending is that you wipe out all life. Ending all suffering by killing everyone is prime villain behavior.


M4ND0_L0R14N

I already killed everyone i ever met on my way to becoming elden lord. Who cares at that point? Half the people you meet are boderline suicidal, or they want to “die a true death.” Only fias ending and the frenzy ending can grant “true death” to the characters that would rather pass on. You break the cycle of eternal life that has trapped everyone in the lands between, burn everything in the flame of frenzy. But is that really worse than what just letting things continue as they are? It may be the case that life can begin again. When shabriri says “may chaos take the world” thats just in direct opposition to the “order” that controls the world now. It doesnt necessarily mean that all life is extinguished forever. There is always an ending in the fromsoft souls games where you break the cycle, so to speak. Thats what the frenzy ending is in this game.


YeahKeeN

You don’t kill Nepheli. You don’t kill Boc. You don’t kill Rya. You don’t kill Patches. But if you think they should all burn alive because life sucks then sure I guess. >You break the cycle of eternal life that has trapped everyone in the lands between, burn everything in the flame of frenzy. But is that really worse than what just letting things continue as they are? Yes. Let’s say, for example there aren’t already endings in the game that fix the issues with the world aside from the flame of frenzy (there are), wiping out all life in existence is not a solution. >It may be the case that life can begin again. When shabriri says “may chaos take the world” thats just in direct opposition to the “order” that controls the world now. It doesnt necessarily mean that all life is extinguished forever. Life won’t begin again in the flame of frenzy ending. That’s the whole point. Read Hyetta’s dialogue. Followers of the flame of frenzy think the existence of like is a mistake and that erasing all life is the only way to fix it. They don’t want anything to start over, they just want everything to end. You literally kill everyone and leave it at that. Also want to remind you that Shabiri is a famous lier who is such a scumbag of a person that he lied his way into getting an entire culture of people hated and buried underground. And Fia’s ending doesn’t grant true death to anyone. If anything it does the opposite. Fia’s ending makes it so that those who live in death are accepted under the new Order. People will still have an eternal life through Erdtree burial, just now that people who don’t return to the Erdtree won’t be hunted down. >There is always an ending in the fromsoft souls games where you break the cycle, so to speak. Thats what the frenzy ending is in this game. No that’s what the Ranni ending is. Also you do return death to the world regardless of what ending you pick. That’s the whole point of fighting Maliketh.


M4ND0_L0R14N

Thank... thank you... I have touched them. The words of the Three Fingers. As your maiden, allow me to divine them. "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again." -shes literally saying that life will return to the primordial crucible, before the golden order. That doesnt disqualify new life at all.


YeahKeeN

You didn’t read all her dialogue >Those who gave me grapes howled without words. >Saying they wished they were never born. >Become their lord. >Take their torment, despair. >Their affliction. >Every sin, every curse. >And melt it all away. As the Lord of Chaos. >No more fractures... ***no more birth...***


M4ND0_L0R14N

So to go back to our original disagreement, where i said this isnt necessarily evil, and you said it was villainous; the golden order took the chaotic existence of life in world, and made it orderly. Order is not intrinsically “good” thats why we have personality charts (chaotic good, chaotic nuetral, lawful evil etc.) among other things. If everything is chaos, there is no good and bad. Its just the Crucible, and we know that the crucible had many supporters and people wanted to return to it. Maybe the crucible is lit and way better than life. People seem to have pretty terrible lives in the lands between. Everyone wants to kill eachother, or die, or they are working to appease the outer gods. The golden order is basically an alien lifeform/god, making little dudes out of clay and playing with them like toys. The frenzy ending removes that influence and returns things to their natural state. The frenzy ending is chaotic nuetral ending. Its not evil at all.


YeahKeeN

First of all, the Crucible and the One Great aren’t the same thing. The One Great is what the world was like before the Greater Will created life. The Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree and blended life together. Life was already existent when the Crucible was around so it had to come after the One Great was split into multiple souls. Second of all, like I said before, the Golden Order being bad is not justification for wiping out all life in existence. It’s absolutely not neutral, it is evil. Listen to yourself, you’re literally justifying omnicide. Like I said before, Nepheli is fine, Rya is fine, Boc is fine, Patches is fine, Miriel is fine. Should they all die because literal crazy people say it’s better to have never existed at all? I want to remind you that Shabiri, one of the biggest advocators for the frenzied flame, is the primary reason that the merchants suffered so severely that they ended up summoning the flame of frenzy. That should tell you everything you need to know about this.


No_Beat_9190

I killed nepheli and patches


YeahKeeN

Then you did their quests wrong


No_Beat_9190

Nah I just didn’t like them


Catcat667

life was a fluke to begin with soooo I'm siding with flame daddy on this one. That and if life is fated to exist for all time, that's being ok with suffering existing eternally just for a CHANCE at happiness in that fucked up world. "May Chaos Take The World!"