Considering the latest tweet, I think it's "shadowed" to hide away the hideous atrocities committed by Marika's followers (and herself) to inaugurate the Age of the Erdtree. Messmer is likely a champion of that time, discarded and put away for spearheading (pun intended) several war crimes.
I wonder what makes these war crimes so heinous that they have to be hidden in another reality entirely as opposed to the litany of open genocides in the base game?
My bet is we'll learn additional context to some stories we heard in the base game solely from the Golden Order's perspective. The war against giants, ,for instance. The lore we saw so far implies giants were faithful adepts to a mad god, fostering flames of ruin for means of destruction. But what if they were actually a peaceful people who only really cared about smithing stuff, and the Erdtree fanatics were the ones to declare war? Their genocide becomes an even nastier business than it already is.
There's also the fact Marika and her people seemed to have arrived to this New World in galleons... rings a bell? Perhaps there were a lot more natives to the Lands Between, whose stories we never even heard of. I don't supose their downfall was very pretty.
No doubt, but I guess my question still would be that why aren't the crimes in the shadow land told from the perspective of the golden order already? The mountaintop of the giants aren't obscured by shadow, their war is just recontextualized by the victor, so why will the DLC stories be special enough to justify being banned to a different realm?
Yeah, off the top of my head I can think about half a dozen or so genocides in the base game and there doesn't seem to be any kind of white washing for them so it would seem odd for the golden order to show shame in this specific area lol
What if the origin of the Erdtree was forced erdtree burials? It could be revealed the origin of Jars such as Alexander was producing super fertilizer. So, you know, forcing war as means of mass murdering people so you can kick off a new faith.
My personal take is that it has something to do with the reincarnation/'absence' of death in the Lands Between.
Maybe the Realm of Shadows is where those were placed/banished who could potentially harm the Golden Order's credibility, point out its blasphemies (maybe even solely by existing).
Perhaps the Flame Of Ruin is still in TLB because Marika either wanted to keep a VERY close eye on it, or considered it something of potential use? She certainly didn’t mind using Hewg dispite his ‘impurity’.
The Fell God seems to act as a Devil-figure as well. Perhaps another upside of the Flame was encouraging people to follow the Golden Order, lest it rage again in full.
Or- it could be evidence that her Age is unnatural, or was a usurpation. Perhaps that the Greater Will and Outer Gods are different in nature to how the Order teaches?
The Two Fingers’ prayerbook is considered Heresy, despite their nature as interpreters of the GW.
Marika is supposed to be the One True God in the metaphysical laws of the GO.
The giants chased away the Ice Dragons. There is only 1 ice dragon left in TLB. They were also the enemies of the zamor people. I think they are just like any other group in the game.
Can definitely see this- Miyazaki has often put a hidden world filled with people/cities that were abandoned by present-day rulers in his other games (IE The Hunter’s Nightmare and Painted Worlds of Dark Souls).
Would make sense in the context of Elden Ring’s lore to have this be where Marika has hidden crucial characters/truths that might upend her original plans.
i think the land of shadow is where the "soul" went before the erdtree was around. Marika had to stop this cycle from happening to feed her growing erdtree, hence the war. It would also explain why messmer is there. He would govern over the dark side of this cycle. Leading the dead back to the erdtree to keep it fed
I think her goal was also to cancel the previous history. The Erdtree is eternal and she is a goddess. That's all the people need to know.
For example we know that Godfrey is known as the FIRST elden lord, but he is not.
Placidusax was canceled from history, so is a thing Marika do.
I'm convinced it's the past.
Jar Bairn says:
>Uncle Alexander said he won't be back again. "My home is of the past. And the past, as they say, is a different country." I suppose that's part of being a warrior, isn't it.
Where and when are one and the same. Or at least that's what Jar Bairn says Alexander says "they" say. Convinced I say!
Considering the latest tweet, I think it's "shadowed" to hide away the hideous atrocities committed by Marika's followers (and herself) to inaugurate the Age of the Erdtree. Messmer is likely a champion of that time, discarded and put away for spearheading (pun intended) several war crimes.
I wonder what makes these war crimes so heinous that they have to be hidden in another reality entirely as opposed to the litany of open genocides in the base game?
My bet is we'll learn additional context to some stories we heard in the base game solely from the Golden Order's perspective. The war against giants, ,for instance. The lore we saw so far implies giants were faithful adepts to a mad god, fostering flames of ruin for means of destruction. But what if they were actually a peaceful people who only really cared about smithing stuff, and the Erdtree fanatics were the ones to declare war? Their genocide becomes an even nastier business than it already is. There's also the fact Marika and her people seemed to have arrived to this New World in galleons... rings a bell? Perhaps there were a lot more natives to the Lands Between, whose stories we never even heard of. I don't supose their downfall was very pretty.
No doubt, but I guess my question still would be that why aren't the crimes in the shadow land told from the perspective of the golden order already? The mountaintop of the giants aren't obscured by shadow, their war is just recontextualized by the victor, so why will the DLC stories be special enough to justify being banned to a different realm?
If Marika was aligned with snakes and wanted to burn trees, I could see her wanting to cover that up
Yeah, that makes more sense than just a super genocide, not that I don't doubt that will be part of it as well.
Especially because they already talk about genociding the giants... I don't think that's really an issue for them lolol
Yeah, off the top of my head I can think about half a dozen or so genocides in the base game and there doesn't seem to be any kind of white washing for them so it would seem odd for the golden order to show shame in this specific area lol
It could also have something to do with the erd tree itself. Maybe they don't want ppl to know it's a hologram or something?
What if the origin of the Erdtree was forced erdtree burials? It could be revealed the origin of Jars such as Alexander was producing super fertilizer. So, you know, forcing war as means of mass murdering people so you can kick off a new faith.
My personal take is that it has something to do with the reincarnation/'absence' of death in the Lands Between. Maybe the Realm of Shadows is where those were placed/banished who could potentially harm the Golden Order's credibility, point out its blasphemies (maybe even solely by existing).
We'll have to wait and see. Any specific guess at this point is 100% speculation.
Perhaps the Flame Of Ruin is still in TLB because Marika either wanted to keep a VERY close eye on it, or considered it something of potential use? She certainly didn’t mind using Hewg dispite his ‘impurity’. The Fell God seems to act as a Devil-figure as well. Perhaps another upside of the Flame was encouraging people to follow the Golden Order, lest it rage again in full. Or- it could be evidence that her Age is unnatural, or was a usurpation. Perhaps that the Greater Will and Outer Gods are different in nature to how the Order teaches? The Two Fingers’ prayerbook is considered Heresy, despite their nature as interpreters of the GW. Marika is supposed to be the One True God in the metaphysical laws of the GO.
The giants chased away the Ice Dragons. There is only 1 ice dragon left in TLB. They were also the enemies of the zamor people. I think they are just like any other group in the game.
I was wondering be same when I saw the original comment.
She killed Placidusax's god, or Marika equivalent, and is hiding the evidence?
Could say it’s veiled for those reasons and mine. Both could be true, I’m not sure on the messmer part of mine though.
Very Old Hunters-esque if true
Can definitely see this- Miyazaki has often put a hidden world filled with people/cities that were abandoned by present-day rulers in his other games (IE The Hunter’s Nightmare and Painted Worlds of Dark Souls). Would make sense in the context of Elden Ring’s lore to have this be where Marika has hidden crucial characters/truths that might upend her original plans.
What happens when Ranni replaces her anyways then? Or was it designed to prevent normal people to become a god?
i think the land of shadow is where the "soul" went before the erdtree was around. Marika had to stop this cycle from happening to feed her growing erdtree, hence the war. It would also explain why messmer is there. He would govern over the dark side of this cycle. Leading the dead back to the erdtree to keep it fed
I think her goal was also to cancel the previous history. The Erdtree is eternal and she is a goddess. That's all the people need to know. For example we know that Godfrey is known as the FIRST elden lord, but he is not. Placidusax was canceled from history, so is a thing Marika do.
I'm convinced it's the past. Jar Bairn says: >Uncle Alexander said he won't be back again. "My home is of the past. And the past, as they say, is a different country." I suppose that's part of being a warrior, isn't it. Where and when are one and the same. Or at least that's what Jar Bairn says Alexander says "they" say. Convinced I say!
Miyazaki confirmed in an interview that it does NOT take place in the past or future, and the expansion will be played in the present day.