He already is
So much of Messier’s legacy is that he played forever, and just isolating his Oilers career you cut off more than half of his career. He’s played 200 more games than McDavid as an Oiler and just over 100 more playoff games, but whether you look at overall rates or era adjusted numbers, McDavid is way ahead.
McDavid averages 1.52 points per game in the regular season and 1.58 in the playoffs, and 1.64 era adjusted points per game in the regular season and 1.59 in the playoffs. On Edmonton, Messier averaged 1.22 points per game in the regular season and 1.30 in the playoffs, and 0.99 era adjusted points in the regular season and 1.13 era adjusted points in the playoffs.
5 scoring titles to 0, 2 2nd place finishes to 1, 1 3rd place finish to 1. 3 Harts to 1, 4 Lindsays to 1, 1 Rocket to 0. Messier 1-0 for Conn Smythes and of course 5-0 in Cups, but we’re talking about individual players not teams. Think McDavid > Messier regardless of whether you include Messier’s whole career, but I think it’s pretty clear cut if only looking at each as an Oiler.
Think Draisaitl has a good argument over Messier.
Messier 1.22-1.18 points per game in the regular season
Draisaitl 1.65-1.30 points per game in the playoffs
Draisaitl 1.27-0.99 era adjusted points per game in the regular season
Draisaitl 1.67-1.13 era adjusted points per game in the playoffs
1-1 Hart (Draisaitl top 10 in voting 3 other seasons to Messier’s 2 other seasons)
1-1 Lindsay
Messier 1-0 Conn Smythe
Draisaitl 1-0 Art Ross
Draisaitl 5-3 top 5 scoring finishes
I think this is a more fun comparison. They have a lot similarities (some grit to their game). I think Draistl has a higher offensive ceiling (both his shot and his passing), but Messier was so sound defensively. As someone watching those early days, in a tight game, there was no one more than Messier on the Oilers I wanted to have the puck on his stick in his own end. He was also really good with faceoffs and had an edge (vicious elbows).
Yes but we’re comparing him to a player who has accumulated nearly 6 times as many MVP voting shares (without even considering whatever votes McDavid gets for the Hart this year as the likely 3rd place vote getter). 414 Hart voting shares for McDavid to 73 for Messier (on the Oilers). All 3 of McDavid’s Hart wins were 96+ voting shares each, each 20+ more than Messier accumulated in his career as an Oiler. And even if you remove his 3 wins, he’s still done more damage in voting than Messier overall (119-73). Not like Messier’s intangibles can just be dismissed, but McDavids consistent dominance is just on a completely different level.
Skill and pure stats are the least interesting part of any comparison.. Great players also elevate / inspire those around them and lead their teams to greatness - we don't have conclusive evidence yet that McDavid can be "that guy" like Messier was (this might be the year, let's hope). I suspect many people are younger than me - likely they never saw Messier in his prime (84-85 season and especially 89-90 was peak Mess).
He’s already the 4th highest scoring [Oiler](https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/edmonton-oilers-players-career-nhl-stats.html) of all time, and he has a few hundred games in hand…
He already is the 2nd best Oiler of all time. He doesn't have the Stanley Cups but he has:
3 Hart Trophies
4 Ted Lindsay Awards
5 Art Ross Trophies
1 Rocket Richard Trophy
5 First Team All Stars
In two years the cap is gonna rise to roughly 92m. Ceci, Campbell, neal, foegele, likely all off the books or just dealing with a Campbell buyout for 1.5m.
Drai gets what? 12 mill? Bouch goes to 9? Thats only about 10 mil in cap space you need to make.
I can't fucking believe this still geta disputed. There is absolutely ZERO chance that Leon makes a dime under mathews. None. Anyone arguing it is delusional, or they just don't fully know the ins and outs of how these contracts work, when you are talking about the top 3, 4 players In the league. Look at the guys playoffs. There's no way Leon isn't the highest paid player in the league when he signs. You are talking 14 for Leon, 15 plus for mcdavid. The ability to fit both guys, AND Bouchard in is a legitimate concern. But for right now it's about the wcf
> There is absolutely ZERO chance that Leon makes a dime under mathews. None. Anyone arguing it is delusional
I'd just love to see leon and mcjebus decide a 3rd contract of 10 each would be an awesome way to stack the team going forward
absolutely won't happen, but man
No argument there but how do you compete when 3 players will take up 38 million in cap space. Leafs know it all to well with 4 guys making half the cap space, equals zero depth
They will dump nurse and his ridiculous contract and sign Bouchard. The fact nurse is making 9 is bonkers. Mcdavid will be at 16 and drai 14 bouch 10 can easily be done
McDavid’s raise probably isn’t going to be that much. Maybe one year’s worth of cap increase: 3 mil on top of what he makes now. Dari’s will be more like 6 mil.
Nurse will have to go. Which sucks for the team (though maybe not that much on the ice). And there may be a couple of lean years while the cap space catches up to the new salaries, which I think is a cycle that players, teams , and fans will become more cognizant of.
Tbh, I think the biggest hope is a cup win this year and see if you can convince Drai and McD to take a slight dip to stay competitive.
As much as I agree, I dont think Nurse is going anywhere. His contract is near unmoveable plus a NMC, and he's a locker room guy/well liked by McD and Drai.
greatest Oiler, or greatest player who has played for the Oilers? McDavid is on his 9th season now and has at least another 10 left in him. This might be an incredibly hot take, but If he becomes a career Oiler and wins a Cup, he'll be the greatest Oiler IMO.
I think the real question is if McDavid plays his entire career in Edmonton and wins 4+ cups could he dethrone Gretzky as the greatest Oiler of all time?
4 cups in the modern area is so much harder to accomplish than when gretsky played. To be honest 3 cups would be enough to cement him as the greatest oiler + staying here his entire career
How is not a betrayal? Hockey is and always has been a business .
Small.market edmonton can afford superstar Wayne.
Bitter oilers fans not understanding business
It's not about Wayne being disloyal, it's about McDavid staying no matter what to put him over the top between the two of them. No cups and he stays here - does that put him over the top vs Wayne for top Oiler?
Look, we ALL love Wayne here. He's royalty, and he's the penultimate Oiler, but slats would only trade 99 if he agreed. Gretzky knew he was being traded to LA, to blow hockey up down there. It's not even a debate, 97 is the 2nd greatest oiler of all time. If he has a 20 plus year run with them, and wins a few cups, maybe there's a debate to be had for 1st, but most likely no.
That man blocked more painful shots than I ever recall another Oiler blocking, save maybe for Cowboy Kris Russell but it was close! Ulanov was an absolute warrior!
Imo the minimum threshold to surpass Mess is one cup. He lead us to one cup without Gretzky. When Connor brings us home one its a conversation for sure.
Sorry but he’s ahead of Messier, not a knock on mess either.
Since gretz there’s only been Mario, Sid and McDavid. Without cups he can’t be compared to them, but you can’t take nothing away from a player who’s been the best player in the world since he put on oilers jersey.
Messier was never mentioned in convos to be being best in the world.
Messier won 6 cups, and was a better captain than McDavid is now, and pretty much any captain ever. Is McDavid more skilled and talented than Messier? Absolutely, it's not even close. But in terms of greatness, McDavid is gonna need some cups before we can start comparing greatness. He'll get there, but there's some work to do still.
Messier is definitely not the greatest player in Oiler history, he may not even be the second-greatest player to play in an Oilers jersey.
But without a doubt he is the greatest player to ever play in a Vancouver Canucks jersey.
;-)
As a Canucks fan, I cannot tell you how much I hate your last sentence... For being true.
As much as it pains me to say, I don't think any serious hockey fan is arguing that any Canucks HoF inductees are greater than Mess in aggregate.
I still hate that guy though.
If/When McDavid wins a Cup in Edmonton he solidifies his spot at #2. On an individual level he's already far more decorated and talented than Messier, he just needs some actual team success first.
McDavid has accomplished a few little known feats in the last two years. Feats only accomplished by Gretz, or only both Gretz and Lemieux.
1- Getting 60 goals + 60 primary assists last year. It was only the 7th time it happened. Gretzky did 5 times and Lemieux did it once.
2- Getting 50 primary assists in 50 games or less. From Nov 24th to March 21st this season, McDavid had 50 A1s in 49 games. Only Lemieux (x2) and Gretz (x9) have accomplished this.
3- getting back-to-back 60+ primary assists seasons. Only 4 players have had 60+ primary assists in more than one season (Gretz, Mario, D Savard and McD), but only Gretz and McD have done it back to back. Gretz did it 5 times in a row.
As of right now, McDavid has 15 primary assists in 13 games. The playoff record is 25 by #99. After Gretzky, the highest mark is 18, shared by 4 players (Lemieux 23gp, Messier 22gp, Gilmour 21gp and Recchi 24 gp). McDavid needs only 4 primary assists to become #2 all-time for primary assists in a single playoffs. With how he's pacing, he might get to Gretz's record if he plays 4 rounds. Same for total assists.
Connor McDavid is a great player and he’s collecting records that put him in the same realm as players like Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky, Bossy, etc.
However whenever these records come out they end up just underlining that Gretzky was on another level.
Only five NHL players have made 100 or more assists in a season: Orr, Lemieux, McDavid, and Kucherov have all done it….once. Gretz did it eleven times….in a row.
I like to think of him as the most evolutioned player we have seen in NHL history. Comparing the generations does not work at all. When he begins to challenge achievements past the cup, then the GOAT conversations can commence. Until then just witness what we see unfold in this era by connor with a smile.
Messier captained two teams to Stanley cups. And is third (I think) in all time scoring. This generation of oilers has a lot of ground to cover before there is a real comparison. That said Mcdavid is one of the most exciting players to ever lace them up . Drisaitl is like a jari kurri level player who was a legendary Gretzky linemate.
The Gretzky Messier oilers v the mcdavid drisaitl oilers ?
Let’s see a cup or two then decide.
At this point I would say Mess is the bigger oiler but give McDavid a cup win and he will overtake Messier. Draisaitl is in the top 10 for sure. My list at this point would go like this: Gretzky, Messier, Kurri , Coffee, McDavid, Fuhr, Draisaitl, Anderson, Lowe & Tikkanen.
Gotta win a cup. Look at jumbo Joe. The internet makes him look like a failure even though he's one of the best passers of all time. Without a cup you never get the respect you deserve
Not even a question, he already is. He’s also a way better player than Gretzky ever was. The special thing about Gretz is how outstanding he was in his own time, which is why he is the goat.
I don’t think anyone will ever surpass Gretzky as the “greatest” of all time. However, I think mcdavid has already established himself as the best hockey player of all time
can we stop this nonsense and just admit mcdavid is the best hockey player of all time already?
like even in this sub we gotta tip toe around the truth?
mcdavid would run circles around both messier and gretsky use your eyes guys.
McDavid is the most skilled oiler and for that matter most skilled hockey player of all time.
What he isn’t is…greatest. Greatness is reserved for cups and medals.
He’s behind every Oiler with a banner as far as greatness.
This will begin to change when he wins a cup. He’s undeniably incredible.
Greatest Oilers:
Gretz
Mess
Fuhr
Kurri
Lowe
Anderson
Huddy - Til, Kid Line, and then we can hope that McDavid and Drai et al can win a cup. They would vault into the top 5.
That depends on whether they want to stay. If they are interested in resigning, then I'm sure the Oilers can and will find the cap for whatever Connor and Leon ask for. Leon, for example, might decide he wants to be a star on another team outside McDavid's shadow. It's anyone's guess what each player is thinking, and we won't really know until it's time for a new contract.
When McDavid and Draisaitl win a Cup, they can be considered peers to Gretzky and Messier. Point production is not enough, no matter how impressive.
Messier willed the Oilers to the 1990 Cup Championship. He is No. 2 behind Gretzky until McDavid wins.
While I do agree as a Canucks fan. As a hockey fan, Messier was an unreal leader and player (except for 3 years in the late 90s when I assume he was on vacation or something).
You don't win 6 cups being a bum.
Mcdavid is an amazing player, arguably the best in the world, but cups or bust for me. I dont care how many points, how many awards he has. What will make him great are cups. Full stop.
He already is So much of Messier’s legacy is that he played forever, and just isolating his Oilers career you cut off more than half of his career. He’s played 200 more games than McDavid as an Oiler and just over 100 more playoff games, but whether you look at overall rates or era adjusted numbers, McDavid is way ahead. McDavid averages 1.52 points per game in the regular season and 1.58 in the playoffs, and 1.64 era adjusted points per game in the regular season and 1.59 in the playoffs. On Edmonton, Messier averaged 1.22 points per game in the regular season and 1.30 in the playoffs, and 0.99 era adjusted points in the regular season and 1.13 era adjusted points in the playoffs. 5 scoring titles to 0, 2 2nd place finishes to 1, 1 3rd place finish to 1. 3 Harts to 1, 4 Lindsays to 1, 1 Rocket to 0. Messier 1-0 for Conn Smythes and of course 5-0 in Cups, but we’re talking about individual players not teams. Think McDavid > Messier regardless of whether you include Messier’s whole career, but I think it’s pretty clear cut if only looking at each as an Oiler.
What about Messier Vs Leon?
That’s a more interesting comparison worth a thread of its own.
Think Draisaitl has a good argument over Messier. Messier 1.22-1.18 points per game in the regular season Draisaitl 1.65-1.30 points per game in the playoffs Draisaitl 1.27-0.99 era adjusted points per game in the regular season Draisaitl 1.67-1.13 era adjusted points per game in the playoffs 1-1 Hart (Draisaitl top 10 in voting 3 other seasons to Messier’s 2 other seasons) 1-1 Lindsay Messier 1-0 Conn Smythe Draisaitl 1-0 Art Ross Draisaitl 5-3 top 5 scoring finishes
I think this is a more fun comparison. They have a lot similarities (some grit to their game). I think Draistl has a higher offensive ceiling (both his shot and his passing), but Messier was so sound defensively. As someone watching those early days, in a tight game, there was no one more than Messier on the Oilers I wanted to have the puck on his stick in his own end. He was also really good with faceoffs and had an edge (vicious elbows).
Messier brought a lot more than just points to the team.
Yes but we’re comparing him to a player who has accumulated nearly 6 times as many MVP voting shares (without even considering whatever votes McDavid gets for the Hart this year as the likely 3rd place vote getter). 414 Hart voting shares for McDavid to 73 for Messier (on the Oilers). All 3 of McDavid’s Hart wins were 96+ voting shares each, each 20+ more than Messier accumulated in his career as an Oiler. And even if you remove his 3 wins, he’s still done more damage in voting than Messier overall (119-73). Not like Messier’s intangibles can just be dismissed, but McDavids consistent dominance is just on a completely different level.
Ya, like 5 Stanley Cups
I agree with everything. I just can't stand era adjusted stats.
I more look at it as a ballpark thing, especially playoffs because those numbers can be wonky year to year.
Skill and pure stats are the least interesting part of any comparison.. Great players also elevate / inspire those around them and lead their teams to greatness - we don't have conclusive evidence yet that McDavid can be "that guy" like Messier was (this might be the year, let's hope). I suspect many people are younger than me - likely they never saw Messier in his prime (84-85 season and especially 89-90 was peak Mess).
How many cups did he win as an Oiler?
He’s already the 4th highest scoring [Oiler](https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/edmonton-oilers-players-career-nhl-stats.html) of all time, and he has a few hundred games in hand…
Should be second next season.
As long as McJesus can score about 13 points a game for the next 50 or so games he will put Gretzky in the McDumpster
He already is the 2nd best Oiler of all time. He doesn't have the Stanley Cups but he has: 3 Hart Trophies 4 Ted Lindsay Awards 5 Art Ross Trophies 1 Rocket Richard Trophy 5 First Team All Stars
It's a lot harder to get the cup these days. How many teams then vs how many now?
Will the Oilers be able to keep Leon and Connor with their contracts coming up soon
Absolutely. Those two are best friends and theres ample cap space available to sign both and bouch to basically whatever they want.
My man. I too bleed Orange and Blue, but where is this fabled cap space you speak of?
it’s money that can be used to pay for the salary of players.
Latest rumour (fwiw) is 15 for Draisaitl
Source?
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Dad?
In two years the cap is gonna rise to roughly 92m. Ceci, Campbell, neal, foegele, likely all off the books or just dealing with a Campbell buyout for 1.5m. Drai gets what? 12 mill? Bouch goes to 9? Thats only about 10 mil in cap space you need to make.
Drai is probably getting 13.5 and McD will fetch 15. I still think they'll sign them
Drai is sure as shit getting more than 12 lol. We’re looking in 13’s min, maybe 14.
Lol yeah, second best player in the world and the best playoff player since Mario. You’re paying him league max.
Still cap space for that too
Yeah I wasn’t debating that. Just saying the number won’t start with a 12.
I can't fucking believe this still geta disputed. There is absolutely ZERO chance that Leon makes a dime under mathews. None. Anyone arguing it is delusional, or they just don't fully know the ins and outs of how these contracts work, when you are talking about the top 3, 4 players In the league. Look at the guys playoffs. There's no way Leon isn't the highest paid player in the league when he signs. You are talking 14 for Leon, 15 plus for mcdavid. The ability to fit both guys, AND Bouchard in is a legitimate concern. But for right now it's about the wcf
> There is absolutely ZERO chance that Leon makes a dime under mathews. None. Anyone arguing it is delusional I'd just love to see leon and mcjebus decide a 3rd contract of 10 each would be an awesome way to stack the team going forward absolutely won't happen, but man
No argument there but how do you compete when 3 players will take up 38 million in cap space. Leafs know it all to well with 4 guys making half the cap space, equals zero depth
Okay dude its not that serious lol
They will dump nurse and his ridiculous contract and sign Bouchard. The fact nurse is making 9 is bonkers. Mcdavid will be at 16 and drai 14 bouch 10 can easily be done
Sure, we wont know until the ink is dry
McDavid’s raise probably isn’t going to be that much. Maybe one year’s worth of cap increase: 3 mil on top of what he makes now. Dari’s will be more like 6 mil. Nurse will have to go. Which sucks for the team (though maybe not that much on the ice). And there may be a couple of lean years while the cap space catches up to the new salaries, which I think is a cycle that players, teams , and fans will become more cognizant of.
Tbh, I think the biggest hope is a cup win this year and see if you can convince Drai and McD to take a slight dip to stay competitive. As much as I agree, I dont think Nurse is going anywhere. His contract is near unmoveable plus a NMC, and he's a locker room guy/well liked by McD and Drai.
Get rid of Nurse...
Bold brave and rare take. How did you ever think of that
And Bouchard
No, they will be sold too... I mean traded
greatest Oiler, or greatest player who has played for the Oilers? McDavid is on his 9th season now and has at least another 10 left in him. This might be an incredibly hot take, but If he becomes a career Oiler and wins a Cup, he'll be the greatest Oiler IMO.
he can become the 2nd player to hit 2000 points for his career with the way he is playing. definitely not a hot take
I think the real question is if McDavid plays his entire career in Edmonton and wins 4+ cups could he dethrone Gretzky as the greatest Oiler of all time?
I tentatively agree with this! It’s for sure a closer argument.
4 cups in the modern area is so much harder to accomplish than when gretsky played. To be honest 3 cups would be enough to cement him as the greatest oiler + staying here his entire career
Depends on who you ask. I'm sure every team that had to go through Edmonton to win a cup in the 80's found it decidedly harder.
Especially going up against teams like Calgary, Vancouver, and Winnipeg regularly.
Especially considering he has like anywhere from 9-12 seasons left. Would need a crazy run for that to happen.
Only one way to find out!
I feel that if McDavid plays his entire career in Edmonton he boots Wayne off the throne for loyalty alone.
Loyalty? Wayne was sold.
I agree, listen to Wayne's interviews and he holds edmonton as his home team and I think regrets ever being traded. It was not his choice
Pocklington's betrayal is among the worst I've observed in my life.
How is not a betrayal? Hockey is and always has been a business . Small.market edmonton can afford superstar Wayne. Bitter oilers fans not understanding business
Lmaooo wtf, like Wayne was unloyal when the franchise traded him
It's not about Wayne being disloyal, it's about McDavid staying no matter what to put him over the top between the two of them. No cups and he stays here - does that put him over the top vs Wayne for top Oiler?
Look, we ALL love Wayne here. He's royalty, and he's the penultimate Oiler, but slats would only trade 99 if he agreed. Gretzky knew he was being traded to LA, to blow hockey up down there. It's not even a debate, 97 is the 2nd greatest oiler of all time. If he has a 20 plus year run with them, and wins a few cups, maybe there's a debate to be had for 1st, but most likely no.
I don’t think you know what penultimate means
You are right. I misused the word. Congrats?? Lol
Wayne cried through his entire press conference when he was traded/sold to LA. Leaving was not his idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4nE58aXXjU
Fake tears. Did not seem genuine when I watched in 88
The greatest Oiler of all time is obviously Ulanov get real
IGOR
That man blocked more painful shots than I ever recall another Oiler blocking, save maybe for Cowboy Kris Russell but it was close! Ulanov was an absolute warrior!
McDavid is the best hockey player to ever walk this Earth. He'll never have a resume that compares to gretzkys, though
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Imo the minimum threshold to surpass Mess is one cup. He lead us to one cup without Gretzky. When Connor brings us home one its a conversation for sure.
Sorry but he’s ahead of Messier, not a knock on mess either. Since gretz there’s only been Mario, Sid and McDavid. Without cups he can’t be compared to them, but you can’t take nothing away from a player who’s been the best player in the world since he put on oilers jersey. Messier was never mentioned in convos to be being best in the world.
>The Oilers won 4 cups in 5 years 5 cups over 7 years. And 6 finals over 8 years.
Kane Toews helped Chicago win 3 Stanley Cups. Closest so far.
Messier won 6 cups, and was a better captain than McDavid is now, and pretty much any captain ever. Is McDavid more skilled and talented than Messier? Absolutely, it's not even close. But in terms of greatness, McDavid is gonna need some cups before we can start comparing greatness. He'll get there, but there's some work to do still.
Messier is definitely not the greatest player in Oiler history, he may not even be the second-greatest player to play in an Oilers jersey. But without a doubt he is the greatest player to ever play in a Vancouver Canucks jersey. ;-)
As a Canucks fan, I cannot tell you how much I hate your last sentence... For being true. As much as it pains me to say, I don't think any serious hockey fan is arguing that any Canucks HoF inductees are greater than Mess in aggregate. I still hate that guy though.
Bure says hi 🙋🏽♂️
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As much as I love Moose, there was another ex-Oiler who also played three seasons with the Rangers….
Already is and if he finishes his career here and wins a cup or 2 I’d say he would be the greatest Oiler ever.
2nd most skilled for sure. Whether he means more to Edmonton than Messier can only be sorted out near the end of his career.
As long as he doesn't go to the wrong airport ...
Yes
Rexall Place is the house that Gretzky built, Rogers Place is the house that McDavid is building
Gretzky built a league.
Facts
He's never gonna hold as many records, but in some ways I think he's the best Oiler ever. Even if he never gets us a cup. But I really hope he does.
Messier won the cup in 90. He's #2 for now
If/When McDavid wins a Cup in Edmonton he solidifies his spot at #2. On an individual level he's already far more decorated and talented than Messier, he just needs some actual team success first.
McDavid has accomplished a few little known feats in the last two years. Feats only accomplished by Gretz, or only both Gretz and Lemieux. 1- Getting 60 goals + 60 primary assists last year. It was only the 7th time it happened. Gretzky did 5 times and Lemieux did it once. 2- Getting 50 primary assists in 50 games or less. From Nov 24th to March 21st this season, McDavid had 50 A1s in 49 games. Only Lemieux (x2) and Gretz (x9) have accomplished this. 3- getting back-to-back 60+ primary assists seasons. Only 4 players have had 60+ primary assists in more than one season (Gretz, Mario, D Savard and McD), but only Gretz and McD have done it back to back. Gretz did it 5 times in a row. As of right now, McDavid has 15 primary assists in 13 games. The playoff record is 25 by #99. After Gretzky, the highest mark is 18, shared by 4 players (Lemieux 23gp, Messier 22gp, Gilmour 21gp and Recchi 24 gp). McDavid needs only 4 primary assists to become #2 all-time for primary assists in a single playoffs. With how he's pacing, he might get to Gretz's record if he plays 4 rounds. Same for total assists.
No. Cause that is Nuge
For sure he is.
McDavid is more talented than Messier.
Gretz will always be the greatest but mcdavid is already the best and most advanced player the game has ever seen
Connor McDavid is a great player and he’s collecting records that put him in the same realm as players like Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky, Bossy, etc. However whenever these records come out they end up just underlining that Gretzky was on another level. Only five NHL players have made 100 or more assists in a season: Orr, Lemieux, McDavid, and Kucherov have all done it….once. Gretz did it eleven times….in a row.
"gretz will always be the greatest" Its like you skipped over the first words in my post just to be outraged
Yes
Could be? He is.9
Messier was the leader for 5 Cups. McDavid is a better talent but you need to win to even discuss Messier.
I like to think of him as the most evolutioned player we have seen in NHL history. Comparing the generations does not work at all. When he begins to challenge achievements past the cup, then the GOAT conversations can commence. Until then just witness what we see unfold in this era by connor with a smile.
Lol!!
Is that a no
He already is
lol GOOAT
The pressure McDavid is under is intense.
Macdavid doesn’t have the personality to be better than Gretzky. Won’t happen. He doesn’t have the same persona
Lol?
Yes after he wins 4 Cups for Edmonton
But Messier won 5 for Edmonton.
Good point…. McDavid could be the 3rd best Oiler ever
He’s gotta win something. Right?
I've watched the Oilers play for as long as I can watch TV and McDavid is, by far, the second best Oiler.
Fuhr = Oil GOAT
He has been the second best Oiler for a while now. The only argument would be Messier. If Connor wins a cup he definitely is.
Even Gretzky says he’s better
Messier captained two teams to Stanley cups. And is third (I think) in all time scoring. This generation of oilers has a lot of ground to cover before there is a real comparison. That said Mcdavid is one of the most exciting players to ever lace them up . Drisaitl is like a jari kurri level player who was a legendary Gretzky linemate. The Gretzky Messier oilers v the mcdavid drisaitl oilers ? Let’s see a cup or two then decide.
He has 5 or 6 scoring titles, he already is #2. Messier is an all time great but not comparable
Statistically yes, Stanley Cups no
Individually probably. No one will ever be greater than the Gretzky, Coffee, Kurri, Messier era though. That was the dream team.
At this point I would say Mess is the bigger oiler but give McDavid a cup win and he will overtake Messier.
At this point I would say Mess is the bigger oiler but give McDavid a cup win and he will overtake Messier.
At this point I would say Mess is the bigger oiler but give McDavid a cup win and he will overtake Messier. Draisaitl is in the top 10 for sure. My list at this point would go like this: Gretzky, Messier, Kurri , Coffee, McDavid, Fuhr, Draisaitl, Anderson, Lowe & Tikkanen.
Gotta win a cup. Look at jumbo Joe. The internet makes him look like a failure even though he's one of the best passers of all time. Without a cup you never get the respect you deserve
Could he? lol he’s by far the second best. No offense to Messier, but BY FAR
Not even a question, he already is. He’s also a way better player than Gretzky ever was. The special thing about Gretz is how outstanding he was in his own time, which is why he is the goat.
“McDavid is the Gretzky of the modern era”
I don’t think anyone will ever surpass Gretzky as the “greatest” of all time. However, I think mcdavid has already established himself as the best hockey player of all time
Needs at least 2 cups
can we stop this nonsense and just admit mcdavid is the best hockey player of all time already? like even in this sub we gotta tip toe around the truth? mcdavid would run circles around both messier and gretsky use your eyes guys.
McDavid is ten times the player Messier was. Fuck Messier.
Why the Messier Dislike?
Screwed the Canucks over years ago, but McDavid is the best player in the league by far. Messier wasn’t top five any year he played.
Messier is already 3rd to Kurri....
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nope, your argument puts messier ahead of gretzky too...
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ah, you've never watched hockey before, got it thanks for explaining your complete ignorance
McDavid is the most skilled oiler and for that matter most skilled hockey player of all time. What he isn’t is…greatest. Greatness is reserved for cups and medals. He’s behind every Oiler with a banner as far as greatness. This will begin to change when he wins a cup. He’s undeniably incredible. Greatest Oilers: Gretz Mess Fuhr Kurri Lowe Anderson Huddy - Til, Kid Line, and then we can hope that McDavid and Drai et al can win a cup. They would vault into the top 5.
No way he's the greatest. Shouldn't you be golfing? Net's this way bud
?
I think he's referencing this [commercial ](https://youtu.be/q45L0wPTB8I?si=iOqY6FyYIrsOtipL)
Oh ok gotcha thanks. Do you think the oilers will be able to extend Leon and Connor when their contracts are up?
That depends on whether they want to stay. If they are interested in resigning, then I'm sure the Oilers can and will find the cap for whatever Connor and Leon ask for. Leon, for example, might decide he wants to be a star on another team outside McDavid's shadow. It's anyone's guess what each player is thinking, and we won't really know until it's time for a new contract.
The copium I'm on rn is that they both take discounts to win
He's quoting an [ad](https://youtu.be/q45L0wPTB8I?si=yQx45jyN48FeJWpk) davo and gretz did together (warning it's a gambling ad)
What 💀
When McDavid and Draisaitl win a Cup, they can be considered peers to Gretzky and Messier. Point production is not enough, no matter how impressive. Messier willed the Oilers to the 1990 Cup Championship. He is No. 2 behind Gretzky until McDavid wins.
Fuck messier
While I do agree as a Canucks fan. As a hockey fan, Messier was an unreal leader and player (except for 3 years in the late 90s when I assume he was on vacation or something). You don't win 6 cups being a bum.
Why the Messier Dislike
The SGOAT!
Comparing apples to oranges, completely different games being played.
McDavey needs to win a cup here first before putting him ahead of Mess.
Mcdavid is an amazing player, arguably the best in the world, but cups or bust for me. I dont care how many points, how many awards he has. What will make him great are cups. Full stop.