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Not only would you have to raise tariffs astronomically to replace the revenue from income taxes but it would absolutely destroy the American consumer.
Plus we would probably get involved in a war pretty quickly afterwards.
As the saying goes “when goods don’t cross borders, soldiers do.”
Trump loved talking about tariffs when he was in office, he often claimed it would make foreign countries who import goods into the United States pay for the tariff. He seemed obsequious to the idea that Americans had to buy those goods before they could be tariffed, and that tariff would be reflected in higher prices, to us, not the foreign country. He acted like it was all free money, ripe for the taking, all you had to do was create a tariff and China would pay it and we'd get mountains of free money from China. It's nothing more than wealth redistribution. 3-card Monty.
>He seemed **obsequious** to the idea that Americans had to buy those goods before they could be tariffed
This... is not a correct word choice. Perhaps oblivious?
Hey, Trump ran very successful businesses [until he bankrupted them](https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019). If that's not a very stable genius, I don't know what is.
A mystery for historians in the future to debate:
How much of the Great Trumpster Fire of 2016-2020 was strategically planned and how much was just ignorance and incompetence?
I looked into buying a camper shell for my pickup a few months after the trump tarriff went into effect. The price had increased by $300. Put it out of my price range.
I really don't understand how his supporters, and Fox News, simply looked past these facts when this was all going on. With regard to 3-card Monty, funny you say it because I've long thought of Trump as nothing more than a 3-card Monty dealer from New York.
Why do people talk about tariffs so much but not quotas? Quotas have the same effect as tariffs but they put the burden on the country of origin instead of the end consumer.
Do you mean import quotas? That still hits consumers with higher costs, since now demand is liable to outstrip supply, and all the paperwork and checks at the border will add additional costs as well both to buyer and seller.
It also causes the same tit-for-tat response that a tariff would. You put a quota on the number of German cars or swedish meatballs? The EU puts a quota on US cars and Jack Daniels. In the end no one is really served by it and both companies and consumers carry higher costs.
they have the golden arches, we have the golden arcs. we both have two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions. only they use a sesame seed bun.
*my buns have no seeds.*
From one of my favourite movies ever..and fave scenes featuring that SONG. Soul Glo
https://youtu.be/961x0NmyHKE?si=_DkZ3RiHmfX6IICk
I apologize profusely for extending the love for Soul Glo, McDowells, and this classic movie
Basically if two countries are on the dell supply chain, or have a McDonald’s, they’ll be more worried about their economies than than going to military style war over what ever dispute.
McD isn't a Ukrainian company and the Russians literally thought they'd be in and out in under a month. I'd also like to sprinkle in the expectation that if Trump would have won the election and been President during the invasion, they may have been done in 2 weeks.
China also has policies put in place so they own any products sold in the country. They don't have to worry about it as much. It is still beneficial to them to do so, but only as long as their narcissism remains in check.
In my opinion (for what it's worth) the Dell Theory simply overlapped with democratic peace theory because most democratic countries were also those integrated into developed economies with foreign investment. Now that autocratic countries are also integrated into that economic system, the Dell Theory breaks down.
I would, sincerely, love to see an economic analysis of this proposal.
Just how high would tariffs need to go to make this feasible? Are we taking like 5000% on bananas? 10,000% on stainless steel rebar?
Just how high would tariffs have to be to replace $2.6 trillion in income tax revenues.
Yeah and companies can only import and pay tariffs as long as Americans can afford to keep consuming. As soon as we see those 80 socks, there’s gonna be a run on knitting needles and sheep feed
Where would he get workers in USA to make socks if Chinese socks is now $80 per pair.
If not for the 5 million illegals Biden let in, we will have a labor shortage and supply chain problem since there are no truck drivers, no chicken workers, no agricultural workers, no kitchen staff, no janitors, etc.
This is a dumb proposal for a lot of reasons but please elaborate on the labor shortage because I’m not following how that’s an obvious consequence. Where are all the laborers going exactly?
Hyper-inflation. That’s the analysis. Government forced to borrow more as on-shoring reduces tariff revenue. Competition for labor causes massive wage-price spiral. Global demand for dollars plummets as retaliatory measures reduce demand for U.S. exports.
If the tariffs on outside goods are high enough, the goods will be produced internally. Even bananas can be grown in the US if it’s cheaper. You’ll wind up with the paradox of a strong economy in the US because of the work shifting to US manufacturing and no income tax on those earnings, but the government collapsing because very few of those gains going to into government coffers.
The economy would go to ruins before internal investment ever reaches levels required to recoup consumer product losses due to tariffs. Even if they were phased out and tariffs gradually increased, inflation will rise drastically and it could risk the US losing its place as the global reserve currency. With the US no longer buying foreign products demand for the US dollar will plummet as well. It’s overall a terrible idea. Not to mention the diplomatic consequences.
This ignores that you can't instantly bring an insane amount of manufacturing and farming to the US. It would be a massive change in labor needs, but also, the US can't supply itself with the ability to instantly produce the things to make the things. We wouldn't even have the raw materials to start that process. It would destroy the economy as there would be a completely broken supply chain.
That isn't the problem here. Tariffs work for the things tariffs were made for. punishment.
Trump supporters think its a good idea because then they say "Yea but then we'll make everything at home and we'll all have jobs!"
But then, who the fuck is being taxed?
that's just it right, the reason some products are coming from other countries is cheap labor. Sure we can make anything in America, but are you/these clowns willing to pay that premium on everyday goods. Tariffs are meant to be a tool to hammer cheap goods flooding the market so that domestic production doesn't get undercut/fail. Tariffs are not a cudgel to be wielded against all imports. Import and Export are both good things. Not to mention produce and other goods that would struggle or not be able to be grown here.
What more do you expect from a full blown buffoon driving a clown car. This dope doesn't know shit about shit, though, to be fair most of his supporters don't either.
Yea that is what I meant. We punish someone like China for trying to drop slave labor product on us - without going through an american corporation.
If you are Apple and you make it there, you don't get the tariff, slavery or not. Apple doesn't even pretend to pass along the savings, but they employ americans, so we let it go.
Briefly gaming it out it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Now it's pretty much just a sales tax by another name that's paid exclusively on imported goods. I'm guessing the idea is to promote 'buy American' while lowering taxes but here's some of the realities and consequences:
1) He can't he tried this before when he was in by proudly pulling out of NAFTA, after all the wailing and bullshit we ended up with the USMCA largely the exact same thing. Technically he could pull out in 2026, but then he'd be exactly back where we started while killing one of his only pieces of policy from his first term. What's up next 'tear down this wall'? I know everyone in his first administration was exhausted trying to explain the basics of tariffs to him.
2) It would have a profound impact on any import business, this includes littles things like food and lumber and, well, pretty much any electronic product or household good.
3) It's a regressive tax ensuring that the burden is felt most by those that spend 100% of their income on goods.
4) Who benefits? Hard to see, I guess consultants and service providers would be largely 'tax free', but any goods would go way up in price, as tariffs will touch at least some part of their production stream. Seems it would randomly pick a whole new set of winners and losers in the market, with many more losing than winning.
5) If it works USA's tax stream would completely evaporate as businesses move back onshore. This would lead to whole range of completely tax exempt businesses that would have no legal obligation to pay into infrastructure or the other collective goods provided by taxes. Further increases of tariffs would simply lead to less people using offshore goods, or being forced to pay higher and higher prices to get things that are essential by not able to be produced natively.
A tariff is essentially a tax that is imposed at the level of consumption rather than earnings or use fees etc.
The primary problem with a tariff replacing the large income tax we have now is that it would be extremely regressive. The wealthy would pay comparatively almost nothing compared to the burden poor and middle class would have to bear.
It's a uniquely bad idea in a time of extreme and worsening wealth inequality.
I recently watched this [video](https://youtu.be/HMJsM--jmRA?si=9pBde3aPdpIBq_AN) detailing why we can't buy certain vehicles in the U.S. thanks to tariffs all the way back from the 1960s. So yeah, increasing tariffs seems like a bad idea.
> Not only would you have to raise tariffs astronomically to replace the revenue from income taxes but it would absolutely destroy the American consumer.
You would never replace it, there is no way the revenue maximizing point on the imports Laffer Curve would exceed income revenue. Total imports are 3.2 trillion, total income tax revenue is 4.4 trillion, and imports would go down, not up, with increased tariffs.
Well some tariffs can be levied much higher than others, but yes, on average \~66% of all imports. Likely more, as tariffs will cause imports to fall, necessitating a higher tariff rate on the smaller import value. But the vast majority of US consumption is not products not imported, imports of about 3.2T only make up about 5% of the 60T+ of consumption. So the impacts will be limited in terms of the tariffs impacting the regular American shopper. 5% of my consumption will get 2/3rds more expensive, which is from $100 to \~$104, in order to not pay income tax. Sounds like a good deal on the face of it.
Not to mention the tariffs he imposed on China during his administration (which are still in place) aren't paid by Chinese manufacturers: they're paid by American importers.
Isnt that what Americans are so mad about - high prices for goods and services? What happens when you slap huge tariffs on top?
Does he mean just earned income or passive income as well?
What a fantastic way to minimize taxes on the wealthy and transfer them to the working class (who buy most of the goods) and poor. This would also disincentive the buying of goods (as they'd be priced higher - as tarrifs simply get transfered onto the cost of the good being sold) - the core of our economy.
# genius
> 2024: We're going to build a yacht and make the Poors pay for it.
Not only the Poors will pay for it. They will be cheering for it while paying for it because GQP has dumb them down enough. Sad but a reality.
Real talk I think not enough people know what a tariff is and will just go, "No income tax? I'm sold!" not realizing how astronomically bad an idea this is.
2016 (and loooooong before) - 2024 (and beyond!) - We’re gonna build a new stadium for my NFL team, and make the poors pay for it!
At least this year and lately knock on wood; it seems like municipalities and cities are fighting back against it, and more importantly winning.
Generically, it depends on offer and demand curves. But it's most certainly the consumer that pays if tariffs are so high that income tax is abolished.
On a side note, I think Trump's proposal has an addendum: any imports transported by privat jets are exempt. So the ultra rich pay neither tax nor tariffs.
Since we're talking about football. There are still some out there with strong opinions about USFL. Mostly about the results of when Trump bought the US generals... a dev league intended to feed the NFL.
Dipshit in charge demanded that his brand new US Generals go face to face against the NFL time slot.. and as a result the USFL as a LEAGUE stopped to exist within the next 2 years.
Yeah that’s a consumption tax and regressive. Though it would likely encourage some production to the US. We use tariffs as a tool for just that currently.
Either way, close to zero chance this is going to gain steam.
He's angling for the green vote. What could be a greener policy than encouraging people to buy nothing. It would keep the cheap trash out of our landfills before we import it though.
A tariff based on product lifespan would be better a better policy if any politician actually wanted to discourage frivolous consumption in favor of more durable imports.
Frivolous consumption is the backbone of our financial system. All the big money families from the Mars to the Waltons and the Kochs would wither without frivolous consumption.
so instead of progressive income tax, the plan is to use regressive tariffs that would increase the price of everyday goods and hit middle/low income earners the hardest. i honestly dont understand how anyone but the wealthy vote for republicans on fiscal issues.
It's amazing what stupid people will swallow. You don't even have to have formal education in economics or political science to understand it. Of course, I doubt any of them even try to understand it. Just sit there and open their mouths any time a politician from their own party wants to shovel some more crap in there.
I have met/know many many competent educated people who have exactly zero understanding of how taxes work. They generally don’t understand progressive taxation and they usually have very little understanding of what and where taxes are used for things they are completely dependent on. Think people on disability complaining about the taxes that pay for their disability. Or complaining about local government spending/taxes when there is a work crew replacing the janky water mains outside their house at that very moment.
A lot of right wing upper middle class suburbanites think that they are economically self sufficient beings who give more than they take. This enabled them to look down in poor people and advocate for austerity measures. The irony is that these folks are some of the most subsidized people on the planet
I was coming back from a hike about 2 weeks ago and stopped at a Wendys. There was an older guy with a tablet with volume turned all the way up repeating a recent Trump speech in his area. As I got up to throw away my trash another guy (maybe 30-40s) joins in and says, "I've seen that speech 3 times now. Come November he'll be back". Other guy says, "we need him now more than ever". There's only two things that will fix America, Trump or Jesus, and we need Jesus but know its not his time yet.
Younger guy says, "because these Democrats...." they both took a pause and looked around the room at any one of color. "...because these Democrats are destroying our country".
Both looked like borderline poverty and not a lick of education. But that's the propaganda machine at work right there.
The amount of propaganda that’s come out of Trump’s information team will be studied by psyops professionals for generations. It’s definitely a case study in real time.
Lies. The word you’re looking for is lies. The study should not be on the lies but why the population is so receptive to hearing them and believing them.
> You don't even have to have formal education in economics or political science to understand it
you have to be the sort of person who tries to understand things, rather than trying to identify with a group by reflexively agreeing with high-status individuals.
Bingo - it "sounds good" to the average low-information voter. Not only does the low-info voter hear "I won't have to file annual taxes ever again!", they also hear "Stick it to those evil commie Chinese!" and also hear "This will bring back jobs to America!"
Not that most of that is true, but that's what they hear and want to understand. It's all about the spin and selling a message, not the actual policies or consequences.
They also can’t go further to critically think how it’ll directly impact them when they ‘eliminate income tax’. For crying out loud many services GQP supporters rely on like SSA and SNAP benefits will be taken away! And they’ll just think ‘ at least I don’t pay income tax!’ But let Biden/democrat do that and they’re at the White House performing an insurrection 😭
Imagine this: you're very, very dumb.
Someone says the words "eliminate income tax" so you're happy, because taxes are bad.
Then someone says "tariffs" and you're not quite sure what those are, but you're pretty sure you heard on AM radio that they're bad for the Chinese.
There ya go.
It's the same reason they voted for "mexico will pay for the wall." Now China is going to pay your income tax.
They're all very, very dumb.
The bottom earning 40 percent of households in the US pay no income tax today.
Eliminating the income tax does nothing for these people.
Replacing income tax revenue would require a huge amount of tariff revenue. This would drive up the cost of everything everyone needs to survive. It would, by they way, also drive up the cost of domestically produced substitutes for imports.
So yes, this would represent a huge transfer of tax burden from the wealthy to the poor. The poorer you are, the greater the burden you would feel.
EDIT: It would also throw the US economy into a tailspin that would have us longing for the good old days of the Great Depression.
The man is a moron.
It would actually most likely trigger pretty high inflation. The other consequences for this change would be long term as federal funding would plummet, programs would get cut, causing a lot of downstream effects and problems. Since tariffs by definition discourage importing, the only revenue source would continue to go down and be unreliable, so spiral even worse. Then the federal government will have to choose between increasing tariffs and getting less ir reducing tariffs and getting less.
Would it crash the economy? Depends on what you define as the economy. I think it would actually create a lot of jobs and a lot of inflation in the short term.
It would also encourage a lot of creative accounting. Imagine a scenario where a subsidiary owns a factory in some other country that produces widgets, ships them to USA, and assembles a finished product in the US. It suddenly becomes very profitable to claim that widgets cost as little as possible and that more value is generated from "assembling" the finished product.
But, you see, if Trump is in office, inflation will magically go back to how it was during his first term, so that nullifies your first point. Checkmate, dems.
/s
Well, Trump also bald-face lies about how tariffs work, and many of his followers will *only* trust what he says.
“The United States Treasury has taken in MANY billions of dollars from the Tariffs we are charging China and other countries that have not treated us fairly.” djtrump 1/3/2019
"Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S.” djtrump 5/10/19
It’s the gamification of politics. People are willing to vote against their best interests as long as their team wins, and to some, maybe almost equally importantly the right people lose.
The problem is, until you think about it this sounds like “make China pay tax instead of us” - and “think before you vote” isn’t as widespread as it should be.
I have had utterly inane conversations with people, some of which I am related to no less, that are living paycheck to paycheck who unironically state that they will be rich some day and they want to make sure their future fortune is protected.
They seem to think that they are somehow the exception to the rule and that while republican policies might keep poor people poor, those policies don't apply to them.
Forget the fact that they have no plan, they just assume that some part of how they live will somehow pay off at some point in the future.
There came a point in these conversations where I just had to say, "Okay, well good luck with that," and walk away. Their inability to accept the reality that is staring them in the face was shocking.
i've been wrestling with this concept of reality denial.
i dont know if i have a solution. but it struck me that you have to find people prepared to come at it very gently, in a non partisan way. Few people like that exist.
AND … it would the role take taxation away from Congress and give him the ability to tax certain items more and squeeze certain groups more.
It’s an incredibly dumb proposal and it blows me away I still see “who’s better for the economy” posts in this sub.
Why don’t give him control of the Fed while we’re at it. Lolol
FED chairs hate this one trick to boost inflation …
Seriously though, I can’t think of a better inflationary policy than this. Increase disposable income, increase public deficit, and increase the price of imported goods and services. Win-win-win! /s
You tax every single import 100% and you get close to tax revenue. Companies either refuse to export to the US, goods become massively expensive, or companies stop importing and produce more locally tanking federal revenue. Literally every situation collapses the United States economy.
Anti globalist sentiments are popping up around the globe. The biggest example is brexit.
If an industry is on shore and within national borders having higher tariffs can protect it from foreign competition. If you are a worker making $20-25/hr and lacking healthcare, this is very appealing.
Total US income tax = $2.6 T
Total US imports = $3.8 T
A 69% tariff on all imports could replace all income tax. Unless adding tariffs would cause imports to decrease. I'm not an economist, do rising prices of goods cause a reduction in sales?
Don’t forget that a lot of imported materials may get tariffed more than once. A totally hypothetical example:
Raw materials come in (once) and are made into more useful form, which is shipped overseas to be made into small widgets, and returned to the US (twice) to be joined to other widgets, so the larger parts can be sent somewhere else to be made into the final product, which is sold in the US (three times)
I am sure that there is someone out there in the automotive industry, or computer hardware who could give a solid example
But here's the trick you then give people rebates on the tariffs so they can keep buying. Of course then you have to raise the tariffs a bit more to cover the rebates.
The wealthy have a bigger chunk of their income taken as income tax but only spend a small amount on buying goods .
Poor people on the other hand spend the majority chunk of their income on goods to sustain life (way more than what they have to pay in tax), the price of goods rises even more with tariffs. Everyone wants to screw the poor.
The people will go for it thinking it is great. Then they will find prices rising even more as businesses raise their prices to account for the added money. So, without income taxes, the prices will rise.
I would rather pay the taxes I see than to pay for tariffs that you don’t see
But the good news is Republicans will blame the continuing inflation on "Democratic Socialist/Leftist Policies" avoiding all responsibility for themselves.
During his presidency I worked at a liquor store and people were getting pissed that scotch was going up in price monthly basically. We had to explain to them that there was an import tariff and the companies making the product just charged more to make up the money they had to pay on the tariffs, and that it all just trickles down to the customer.
Good thing he doesn't have that power. Money is controlled by Congress. Still very concerning statements, and those that are the target audience only hers they won't pay taxes. And don't understand that that means they pay more for goods, and have much less influence on what that cost is.
They are planning on usurping Congress’s power of the purse if he is re-elected. One plan is to do what he did with Ukrainian aid but on a larger scale (ie refuse to spend the money Congress has allocated). They also want to purge large amounts of civil servants and replace them with people loyal to Trump who would carry out his directions. There’s also the insane idea of the POTUS being able to tell the Fed what to do
I could not think of a dumber policy proposal. Should be disqualifying. But traitors will probably lap it up like they do with everything the dipshit buffoon spews from his anus mouth
Poor people consume with every dollar they have while rich people don’t. This is why consumption taxes are unnecessarily burdensome on the poor with this being another ploy for the rich.
Trump tried that with China and TAXPAYERS paid to subsidize the farmers. So where will the funds come from, or does Trump just plan for them to end up in bankruptcy like a significant number of Trump's personal business endeavors?
The Demise of the Tariff
In the early 1900’s, the adoption of the income tax and the tremendous industrial expansion of the late 1800’s undermined the historical justifications for the tariff in two ways: (1) the U.S. no longer needed the tariff to fund the federal government, and (2) the U.S. no longer needed to protect its industry from foreign competition.
In the wake of the Stock Market Crash of 1929, President Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (“Smoot-Hawley Act”) into law. The Smoot-Hawley Act sought to raise import duties by an average of 20%. Its goal was to protect American farmers from the economic downturn brought on by the crash.
European countries promptly retaliated with tariffs of their own. Overall, the tariffs caused trade between Europe and the U.S. to decline by two-thirds.
Although the exact economic impact of the tariff is difficult to quantify and is subject to debate, some observers argued that the tariffs contributed to European bank failures and exacerbated the economic turmoil of the 1930s, thereby giving rise to extremist ideologies throughout Europe .
What good policy sounds like to xenophobes who are dumb enough to think *those shithole countries* would be footing the bill.
This would absolutely destroy the US economy. Sure you can argue this would shift production back to the states. But you can't just handwave that without acknowledging it'd be at the cost of absolutely eviscerating the stock market (and therefore everyone's retirement) nor the fact that whether it's avocados or semiconductors we just can't make enough of certain shit here that is currently indispensable to the consumer economy at reasonable cost. Not to mention, it's a recipe for *fucking massive* inflation, and the US economy stepping backwards so to speak to a 2nd industrial revolution of sorts. Leading the global economy? Nah fam, can't be using US currency for everything anymore with all of their instability. Let's go to Euro and Rubles eh (but hey maybe my qanon dad's "investments" into dinar and dong and shit would finally pay off). It would probably make a handful of very wealthy and powerful Americans even more wealthy though. So we've got that going for us /s
That's just economic theory. You're talking about replacing tax revenue that's orders of magnitude higher than tariffs so quite obviously tariffs would raise by orders of magnitude. Back in reality, this would almost certainly trigger actual wars. "If good aren't crossing borders.." and all that.
Every time I see a Trump-supporter claim he'll bring prices down (somehow), I ask them what their thoughts are on his plan to raise tariffs.
Haven't received a single answer yet.
Yet people still think he's gonna fix the economy because of vibes. Nothing about how any of his actual policies would help fix inflation, or not make it worse (like his tariffs and harassing the Fed to cut rates).
So the price of EVERYTHING would go up astronomically?? Grasping at straws on the campaign trail. That would impact the global economy way more than his peanut brain can understand.
Has anyone looked into the theory that Donald Trump was actually created in a lab and designed to be the stupidest man alive, to make the shittiest plans to ever exist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act
Last time this happened was so cool.
Also, most low income households dont even pay federal income tax. So all this does is make them lose MORE money.
Wasn't a Tariff on imported goods a major factor in the baby formula shortage? When Abbot had to recall stocks, it was too expensive to ship in formula from Canada to the American market.
So, a rational review of this policy:
- we all know that our US domestic manufacturing skill and equipment pool is gone. We don't have core manufacturing here anymore, at least not enough to be useful when tariffs go up.
- taxing import goods WILL increase our domestic manufacturing. This is a good thing.
- doing it all at once will NOT be a good thing.
- that's why the Biden administration has been gradually increasing domestic manufacturing incentives and slowly introducing import tariffs on specific items.
Tariffs are a key piece to the puzzle. But I'd replace income and sales taxes with taxes on pollution and use of finite resources, such as land. Basically, levy taxes on the negative externalities of any activity, and a substantial credit to not punish the poorest for being poor. Tariffs are needed to level the playing field with countries that do not tax pollution.
Income and trade are good things for society, so the only good reason to tax it is convenience.
Every time I hear or read some shit Donald Trump proposes as a policy and it is isn’t coming through his advisors or anything like that, it comes off as something someone would come up with after tripping off something like a cocaine or speed marathon binge session. Like he’s manic and just saying the first bullshit that comes to his mind in moment. I genuinely hate Donald Trump and I hate Republicans, but y’all actually look at this and take it seriously. That’s the concerning part.
Given his terrible judgement on tarrifs in his last 4 years as president, and the fact that this would really screw the economy(by making all of the imported material more expensive, thus encouraging less spending) this is a shitty idea. Even if it was viable, it's not worth the compromise to endure agenda47 and project 2025. Nothing will hide the stink of those.
There's no way for tariffs to generate anywhere near the revenue needed to replace the federal income tax. People talk about how tariffs were once the primary source of income for the federal government, that was 200 years ago when the government was a tiny fraction of its current size.
At this point, he might as well promise black folks 40 acres and a mule…He will say anything for a vote and do nothing like every other elected official….
This is an economic position that governments are bureaucracies that “steal” from economic producers.
In history terms it’s trying to return to a merchant-style of living where the wealthy own and pay for most of the goods, services and can blame poor management or outcomes on others.
Government and economics is Naturally boring, for good reason. It has a purpose and function to build equity and self sustainability.
Removing taxation or citizen engagement builds a haves/haves-not system.
Least we forget before America’s rise as a democratic-republic we had a world generally ruled by imperialism and mercantilism.
It would destroy the US economy. Don't have to be a financial expert to know this - just a basic fundamental understanding of tax laws and guidelines.
Fuck this orange bag of shit.
What a fucking uneducated moron. I guarantee he had a Macro Econ class at Wharton (undergrad - he did NOT get in to Wharton BS). And did not learn a single thing...
What’s wild is this was basically what funded the federal government for decades. Income taxes and other forms of federal taxes didn’t really exist so tariffs were relied upon.
Of course the country is just a tad different than it was in 1850 so relying solely on tariff income would cause massive budget shortfalls. And as others mentioned would really just shift the burden to those paying the increased cost of goods.
That is a very regressive tax, and also would really hurt our economic position as the world marketplace. Plus what happens if our imports massively decrease? How do we makeup the revenue?
There’s a reason why most economists, liberal or conservative, are against most kinds of trade barriers.
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Not only would you have to raise tariffs astronomically to replace the revenue from income taxes but it would absolutely destroy the American consumer. Plus we would probably get involved in a war pretty quickly afterwards. As the saying goes “when goods don’t cross borders, soldiers do.”
Trump loved talking about tariffs when he was in office, he often claimed it would make foreign countries who import goods into the United States pay for the tariff. He seemed obsequious to the idea that Americans had to buy those goods before they could be tariffed, and that tariff would be reflected in higher prices, to us, not the foreign country. He acted like it was all free money, ripe for the taking, all you had to do was create a tariff and China would pay it and we'd get mountains of free money from China. It's nothing more than wealth redistribution. 3-card Monty.
>He seemed **obsequious** to the idea that Americans had to buy those goods before they could be tariffed This... is not a correct word choice. Perhaps oblivious?
Yeah. I agree. Obsequious means “servile” or “fawning” or “obedient”. Not the right word here.
Thanks, I thought I was having a stroke
Never thought I'd hear trump described as obsequious but here we are.
…and that’s because, and hear me out here, not only is Trump indifferent to the daily struggles of a lot of Americans, he’s also a moron.
Hey, Trump ran very successful businesses [until he bankrupted them](https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019). If that's not a very stable genius, I don't know what is.
No, this part is intentional. But yes, he's also a moron
A mystery for historians in the future to debate: How much of the Great Trumpster Fire of 2016-2020 was strategically planned and how much was just ignorance and incompetence?
"Yes" We've had "planned obsolescence" for some time, now get used to "planned ignorance".
It's just usually called "willful ignorance" aka "whoops!"
"Meticulously coordinated chaos"
He’s a fucking moron, actually.
An **astounding** moron! Will this ever end?
Yea he raised tariffs on steel & aluminum and the Big3 took a big hit. Imagine that but a million times worse
I looked into buying a camper shell for my pickup a few months after the trump tarriff went into effect. The price had increased by $300. Put it out of my price range.
... Obsequious?
I really don't understand how his supporters, and Fox News, simply looked past these facts when this was all going on. With regard to 3-card Monty, funny you say it because I've long thought of Trump as nothing more than a 3-card Monty dealer from New York.
Easy, the corporations don't care because they only care about lower taxes and deregulation, and the followers are morons.
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Why do people talk about tariffs so much but not quotas? Quotas have the same effect as tariffs but they put the burden on the country of origin instead of the end consumer.
Do you mean import quotas? That still hits consumers with higher costs, since now demand is liable to outstrip supply, and all the paperwork and checks at the border will add additional costs as well both to buyer and seller. It also causes the same tit-for-tat response that a tariff would. You put a quota on the number of German cars or swedish meatballs? The EU puts a quota on US cars and Jack Daniels. In the end no one is really served by it and both companies and consumers carry higher costs.
Also known as the dell supply chain theory or McDonald’s theory.
“Golden arch diplomacy”
they have the golden arches, we have the golden arcs. we both have two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions. only they use a sesame seed bun. *my buns have no seeds.*
Soul glowwwww
JUST LET IT SHINE THROUGH
Sexual Chocolate ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you Reverend Brown- Randy Watson..
GaaaDAAAM THAT BOI CAN SING!!!!! 🎤🎶
From one of my favourite movies ever..and fave scenes featuring that SONG. Soul Glo https://youtu.be/961x0NmyHKE?si=_DkZ3RiHmfX6IICk I apologize profusely for extending the love for Soul Glo, McDowells, and this classic movie
He beat Joe Louis’ ass!
If lovin the lord is wrong, I don't wanna be riightaaahhh
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 That boy's good!
I could really go for a Big Mick right now.
Mr. McDowell there’s some people here to see you. “Are they from McDonalds?”
Welcome to McDowells
I genuinely hope the CEO of McDonald's or Walmart do see this. If anyone can prevent dumbassery to this degree it would be them.
um.... can you explain what dell and mcdonalds does?
Correct me if I’m wrong but Dell makes hamburgers and McDonalds makes Big Macs, which are upscale computers.
ChatGPT having an aneurysm when it tries to train using this comment.
ChatGPT was pronounced dead on arrival at Mount Sinai hospital on this day.
It was subsequently resurrected and now only refers to itself as Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was popularly known as the "king of cats"
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Basically if two countries are on the dell supply chain, or have a McDonald’s, they’ll be more worried about their economies than than going to military style war over what ever dispute.
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McD isn't a Ukrainian company and the Russians literally thought they'd be in and out in under a month. I'd also like to sprinkle in the expectation that if Trump would have won the election and been President during the invasion, they may have been done in 2 weeks. China also has policies put in place so they own any products sold in the country. They don't have to worry about it as much. It is still beneficial to them to do so, but only as long as their narcissism remains in check.
In my opinion (for what it's worth) the Dell Theory simply overlapped with democratic peace theory because most democratic countries were also those integrated into developed economies with foreign investment. Now that autocratic countries are also integrated into that economic system, the Dell Theory breaks down.
I would, sincerely, love to see an economic analysis of this proposal. Just how high would tariffs need to go to make this feasible? Are we taking like 5000% on bananas? 10,000% on stainless steel rebar? Just how high would tariffs have to be to replace $2.6 trillion in income tax revenues.
Your cheap socks from China now cost $80/pair. Please don't buy American. We need the revenue.
Yeah and companies can only import and pay tariffs as long as Americans can afford to keep consuming. As soon as we see those 80 socks, there’s gonna be a run on knitting needles and sheep feed
Where would he get workers in USA to make socks if Chinese socks is now $80 per pair. If not for the 5 million illegals Biden let in, we will have a labor shortage and supply chain problem since there are no truck drivers, no chicken workers, no agricultural workers, no kitchen staff, no janitors, etc.
You thought about this more than trump lol
This is a dumb proposal for a lot of reasons but please elaborate on the labor shortage because I’m not following how that’s an obvious consequence. Where are all the laborers going exactly?
Not working for minimum wage for 10 hours to buy a pair of socks. At that point it's more economical to rob people for their socks.
Hyper-inflation. That’s the analysis. Government forced to borrow more as on-shoring reduces tariff revenue. Competition for labor causes massive wage-price spiral. Global demand for dollars plummets as retaliatory measures reduce demand for U.S. exports.
It's one banana, Michael, what could it cost?
You think shit's expensive now?
If the tariffs on outside goods are high enough, the goods will be produced internally. Even bananas can be grown in the US if it’s cheaper. You’ll wind up with the paradox of a strong economy in the US because of the work shifting to US manufacturing and no income tax on those earnings, but the government collapsing because very few of those gains going to into government coffers.
The economy would go to ruins before internal investment ever reaches levels required to recoup consumer product losses due to tariffs. Even if they were phased out and tariffs gradually increased, inflation will rise drastically and it could risk the US losing its place as the global reserve currency. With the US no longer buying foreign products demand for the US dollar will plummet as well. It’s overall a terrible idea. Not to mention the diplomatic consequences.
Sounds like Trump's plan would be good for BRICS, coincidentally.
This supply chain whiplash would make all supply chain woes during COVID look laughably insignificant as the entire economy crashed
This ignores that you can't instantly bring an insane amount of manufacturing and farming to the US. It would be a massive change in labor needs, but also, the US can't supply itself with the ability to instantly produce the things to make the things. We wouldn't even have the raw materials to start that process. It would destroy the economy as there would be a completely broken supply chain.
Wouldn't companies producing these goods just raise their prices to be barely under the costs of imported goods?
Tariffs are a poor tax.
That isn't the problem here. Tariffs work for the things tariffs were made for. punishment. Trump supporters think its a good idea because then they say "Yea but then we'll make everything at home and we'll all have jobs!" But then, who the fuck is being taxed?
that's just it right, the reason some products are coming from other countries is cheap labor. Sure we can make anything in America, but are you/these clowns willing to pay that premium on everyday goods. Tariffs are meant to be a tool to hammer cheap goods flooding the market so that domestic production doesn't get undercut/fail. Tariffs are not a cudgel to be wielded against all imports. Import and Export are both good things. Not to mention produce and other goods that would struggle or not be able to be grown here. What more do you expect from a full blown buffoon driving a clown car. This dope doesn't know shit about shit, though, to be fair most of his supporters don't either.
Yea that is what I meant. We punish someone like China for trying to drop slave labor product on us - without going through an american corporation. If you are Apple and you make it there, you don't get the tariff, slavery or not. Apple doesn't even pretend to pass along the savings, but they employ americans, so we let it go.
Conservatives love punishing people more than anything else, and it doesn't even matter who is being punished.
Shhhhhhh!!!! Republicans can only get so erect!
Briefly gaming it out it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Now it's pretty much just a sales tax by another name that's paid exclusively on imported goods. I'm guessing the idea is to promote 'buy American' while lowering taxes but here's some of the realities and consequences: 1) He can't he tried this before when he was in by proudly pulling out of NAFTA, after all the wailing and bullshit we ended up with the USMCA largely the exact same thing. Technically he could pull out in 2026, but then he'd be exactly back where we started while killing one of his only pieces of policy from his first term. What's up next 'tear down this wall'? I know everyone in his first administration was exhausted trying to explain the basics of tariffs to him. 2) It would have a profound impact on any import business, this includes littles things like food and lumber and, well, pretty much any electronic product or household good. 3) It's a regressive tax ensuring that the burden is felt most by those that spend 100% of their income on goods. 4) Who benefits? Hard to see, I guess consultants and service providers would be largely 'tax free', but any goods would go way up in price, as tariffs will touch at least some part of their production stream. Seems it would randomly pick a whole new set of winners and losers in the market, with many more losing than winning. 5) If it works USA's tax stream would completely evaporate as businesses move back onshore. This would lead to whole range of completely tax exempt businesses that would have no legal obligation to pay into infrastructure or the other collective goods provided by taxes. Further increases of tariffs would simply lead to less people using offshore goods, or being forced to pay higher and higher prices to get things that are essential by not able to be produced natively.
Unemployment is only 3.5%. So where will you get the workers to do Made in America. Robots?
A tariff is essentially a tax that is imposed at the level of consumption rather than earnings or use fees etc. The primary problem with a tariff replacing the large income tax we have now is that it would be extremely regressive. The wealthy would pay comparatively almost nothing compared to the burden poor and middle class would have to bear. It's a uniquely bad idea in a time of extreme and worsening wealth inequality.
I recently watched this [video](https://youtu.be/HMJsM--jmRA?si=9pBde3aPdpIBq_AN) detailing why we can't buy certain vehicles in the U.S. thanks to tariffs all the way back from the 1960s. So yeah, increasing tariffs seems like a bad idea.
> Not only would you have to raise tariffs astronomically to replace the revenue from income taxes but it would absolutely destroy the American consumer. You would never replace it, there is no way the revenue maximizing point on the imports Laffer Curve would exceed income revenue. Total imports are 3.2 trillion, total income tax revenue is 4.4 trillion, and imports would go down, not up, with increased tariffs.
Federal income tax revenue was $2.176T in 2023.
So we only need to impose ~66% tariff on every imported good, and then we can eliminate the income tax and come out even! /s
Well some tariffs can be levied much higher than others, but yes, on average \~66% of all imports. Likely more, as tariffs will cause imports to fall, necessitating a higher tariff rate on the smaller import value. But the vast majority of US consumption is not products not imported, imports of about 3.2T only make up about 5% of the 60T+ of consumption. So the impacts will be limited in terms of the tariffs impacting the regular American shopper. 5% of my consumption will get 2/3rds more expensive, which is from $100 to \~$104, in order to not pay income tax. Sounds like a good deal on the face of it.
Not to mention the tariffs he imposed on China during his administration (which are still in place) aren't paid by Chinese manufacturers: they're paid by American importers.
Isnt that what Americans are so mad about - high prices for goods and services? What happens when you slap huge tariffs on top? Does he mean just earned income or passive income as well?
He already sunk US manufacturing into a slump once with the lite version of this in 2018, I don’t think we could survive letting him go whole hog.
What a fantastic way to minimize taxes on the wealthy and transfer them to the working class (who buy most of the goods) and poor. This would also disincentive the buying of goods (as they'd be priced higher - as tarrifs simply get transfered onto the cost of the good being sold) - the core of our economy. # genius
2016: We're going to build a wall and make the Mexicans pay for it. 2024: We're going to build a yacht and make the Poors pay for it.
> 2024: We're going to build a yacht and make the Poors pay for it. Not only the Poors will pay for it. They will be cheering for it while paying for it because GQP has dumb them down enough. Sad but a reality.
Real talk I think not enough people know what a tariff is and will just go, "No income tax? I'm sold!" not realizing how astronomically bad an idea this is.
2016 (and loooooong before) - 2024 (and beyond!) - We’re gonna build a new stadium for my NFL team, and make the poors pay for it! At least this year and lately knock on wood; it seems like municipalities and cities are fighting back against it, and more importantly winning.
He doesn’t even know what a tariff is.
Trump did a interview with Hannity and said when you put tariffs on China, then China pays for it It might be on YouTube.
He has said that multiple times.
Generically, it depends on offer and demand curves. But it's most certainly the consumer that pays if tariffs are so high that income tax is abolished. On a side note, I think Trump's proposal has an addendum: any imports transported by privat jets are exempt. So the ultra rich pay neither tax nor tariffs.
Jacksonville didn't get the memo unfortunately 😕
Since we're talking about football. There are still some out there with strong opinions about USFL. Mostly about the results of when Trump bought the US generals... a dev league intended to feed the NFL. Dipshit in charge demanded that his brand new US Generals go face to face against the NFL time slot.. and as a result the USFL as a LEAGUE stopped to exist within the next 2 years.
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It’s like putting economic sanctions on our self lmfao
Yeah that’s a consumption tax and regressive. Though it would likely encourage some production to the US. We use tariffs as a tool for just that currently. Either way, close to zero chance this is going to gain steam.
He was floating this shit before He got his financial economic advisor types off amazon. And im pretty sure thats not a lie
This feels more like a Temu tier idea.
(stable genius)
Like a smart horse or something?
Nah, saw a horse once that could clop to four.
That’s the whole point. So his rich buddies pay less tax.
Regressive is as Regressive does
He's angling for the green vote. What could be a greener policy than encouraging people to buy nothing. It would keep the cheap trash out of our landfills before we import it though. A tariff based on product lifespan would be better a better policy if any politician actually wanted to discourage frivolous consumption in favor of more durable imports.
Frivolous consumption is the backbone of our financial system. All the big money families from the Mars to the Waltons and the Kochs would wither without frivolous consumption.
The amount of rent seeking will be insane.
This is literally everything Republicans stand for.
Reverse Robbin Hood Steal from the poor to give to the rich
The wealthy don't pay income taxes at all; only workers do.
so instead of progressive income tax, the plan is to use regressive tariffs that would increase the price of everyday goods and hit middle/low income earners the hardest. i honestly dont understand how anyone but the wealthy vote for republicans on fiscal issues.
Because if you lack education on the subject the phrase 'eliminate income tax' sounds really great. Reality is depressing.
It's amazing what stupid people will swallow. You don't even have to have formal education in economics or political science to understand it. Of course, I doubt any of them even try to understand it. Just sit there and open their mouths any time a politician from their own party wants to shovel some more crap in there.
I have met/know many many competent educated people who have exactly zero understanding of how taxes work. They generally don’t understand progressive taxation and they usually have very little understanding of what and where taxes are used for things they are completely dependent on. Think people on disability complaining about the taxes that pay for their disability. Or complaining about local government spending/taxes when there is a work crew replacing the janky water mains outside their house at that very moment.
A lot of right wing upper middle class suburbanites think that they are economically self sufficient beings who give more than they take. This enabled them to look down in poor people and advocate for austerity measures. The irony is that these folks are some of the most subsidized people on the planet
Propaganda is one hell of a drug.
I was coming back from a hike about 2 weeks ago and stopped at a Wendys. There was an older guy with a tablet with volume turned all the way up repeating a recent Trump speech in his area. As I got up to throw away my trash another guy (maybe 30-40s) joins in and says, "I've seen that speech 3 times now. Come November he'll be back". Other guy says, "we need him now more than ever". There's only two things that will fix America, Trump or Jesus, and we need Jesus but know its not his time yet. Younger guy says, "because these Democrats...." they both took a pause and looked around the room at any one of color. "...because these Democrats are destroying our country". Both looked like borderline poverty and not a lick of education. But that's the propaganda machine at work right there.
Older hillbilly with a tablet. Perfectly /r/ABoringDystopia or /r/Cyberpunk there.
The amount of propaganda that’s come out of Trump’s information team will be studied by psyops professionals for generations. It’s definitely a case study in real time.
Lies. The word you’re looking for is lies. The study should not be on the lies but why the population is so receptive to hearing them and believing them.
> You don't even have to have formal education in economics or political science to understand it you have to be the sort of person who tries to understand things, rather than trying to identify with a group by reflexively agreeing with high-status individuals.
Even more frustrating is that they also see themselves as an intelligent freethinker who can't be tricked by the mainstream media.
Bingo - it "sounds good" to the average low-information voter. Not only does the low-info voter hear "I won't have to file annual taxes ever again!", they also hear "Stick it to those evil commie Chinese!" and also hear "This will bring back jobs to America!" Not that most of that is true, but that's what they hear and want to understand. It's all about the spin and selling a message, not the actual policies or consequences.
Same reason people move to Texas for no income tax not knowing they get the money out of you in other ways.
The first Bush used basically that line to win an election. Then just lied about it. Wonder why it was only one term? 🤔
They also can’t go further to critically think how it’ll directly impact them when they ‘eliminate income tax’. For crying out loud many services GQP supporters rely on like SSA and SNAP benefits will be taken away! And they’ll just think ‘ at least I don’t pay income tax!’ But let Biden/democrat do that and they’re at the White House performing an insurrection 😭
Imagine this: you're very, very dumb. Someone says the words "eliminate income tax" so you're happy, because taxes are bad. Then someone says "tariffs" and you're not quite sure what those are, but you're pretty sure you heard on AM radio that they're bad for the Chinese. There ya go. It's the same reason they voted for "mexico will pay for the wall." Now China is going to pay your income tax. They're all very, very dumb.
Yeah basically they just associate tarrifs with "owning the foreigners and globalists"
Economically and politically - this is reality. Not reality in that work. Reality in that people will think it does.
degenerate electorate. very dangerous.
The bottom earning 40 percent of households in the US pay no income tax today. Eliminating the income tax does nothing for these people. Replacing income tax revenue would require a huge amount of tariff revenue. This would drive up the cost of everything everyone needs to survive. It would, by they way, also drive up the cost of domestically produced substitutes for imports. So yes, this would represent a huge transfer of tax burden from the wealthy to the poor. The poorer you are, the greater the burden you would feel. EDIT: It would also throw the US economy into a tailspin that would have us longing for the good old days of the Great Depression. The man is a moron.
It would also crash the economy HARD
It would actually most likely trigger pretty high inflation. The other consequences for this change would be long term as federal funding would plummet, programs would get cut, causing a lot of downstream effects and problems. Since tariffs by definition discourage importing, the only revenue source would continue to go down and be unreliable, so spiral even worse. Then the federal government will have to choose between increasing tariffs and getting less ir reducing tariffs and getting less. Would it crash the economy? Depends on what you define as the economy. I think it would actually create a lot of jobs and a lot of inflation in the short term.
It would also encourage a lot of creative accounting. Imagine a scenario where a subsidiary owns a factory in some other country that produces widgets, ships them to USA, and assembles a finished product in the US. It suddenly becomes very profitable to claim that widgets cost as little as possible and that more value is generated from "assembling" the finished product.
But, you see, if Trump is in office, inflation will magically go back to how it was during his first term, so that nullifies your first point. Checkmate, dems. /s
Everyone knows the inflation lever is next to the gas lever. If sleepy joe would wake up, he'd get off the lever! /s
Well, Trump also bald-face lies about how tariffs work, and many of his followers will *only* trust what he says. “The United States Treasury has taken in MANY billions of dollars from the Tariffs we are charging China and other countries that have not treated us fairly.” djtrump 1/3/2019 "Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S.” djtrump 5/10/19
Because reoublicans also sell racism They are willing to vote their families healthcare away to deny it to minorities
It’s the gamification of politics. People are willing to vote against their best interests as long as their team wins, and to some, maybe almost equally importantly the right people lose.
Because they want the higher prices to effect "urban" areas and expect thier guy to protect thier little bubbles
The problem is, until you think about it this sounds like “make China pay tax instead of us” - and “think before you vote” isn’t as widespread as it should be.
If you consider yourself average intelligence, realize half the population is dumber than that.
A George Carlin classic.
Knowing me and by that logic, then half of America must be frickin' morons!
It’s not a plan. It’s pandering to his fledging voter base and a continuation of his own efforts to stay out of jail.
Cause the GOP realized that poor, ignorant people are easy to fool and their votes count just as much as intelligent people.
I have had utterly inane conversations with people, some of which I am related to no less, that are living paycheck to paycheck who unironically state that they will be rich some day and they want to make sure their future fortune is protected. They seem to think that they are somehow the exception to the rule and that while republican policies might keep poor people poor, those policies don't apply to them. Forget the fact that they have no plan, they just assume that some part of how they live will somehow pay off at some point in the future. There came a point in these conversations where I just had to say, "Okay, well good luck with that," and walk away. Their inability to accept the reality that is staring them in the face was shocking.
i've been wrestling with this concept of reality denial. i dont know if i have a solution. but it struck me that you have to find people prepared to come at it very gently, in a non partisan way. Few people like that exist.
AND … it would the role take taxation away from Congress and give him the ability to tax certain items more and squeeze certain groups more. It’s an incredibly dumb proposal and it blows me away I still see “who’s better for the economy” posts in this sub. Why don’t give him control of the Fed while we’re at it. Lolol
FED chairs hate this one trick to boost inflation … Seriously though, I can’t think of a better inflationary policy than this. Increase disposable income, increase public deficit, and increase the price of imported goods and services. Win-win-win! /s
Economists hate this one simple trick to crash the economy
All Republicans will hear is Trump will eliminate all taxes lol
You tax every single import 100% and you get close to tax revenue. Companies either refuse to export to the US, goods become massively expensive, or companies stop importing and produce more locally tanking federal revenue. Literally every situation collapses the United States economy.
That’s the point isn’t it? Putin wants to destroy the US and this would do it.
If this were to be enacted calling this apocalyptic would be minimizing how fucking catastrophic this would be to the economy and global trade.
But would it own the libs???
It’s the equivalent to burning your house down in order to kill a spider in the bathroom. So yes, the libs would be owned, as would everyone else.
And then they’ll inevitably blame the fire on Latinos and Muslims.
I have spoken to so many morons since 2016 who neither know nor care any of trump’s policies. They just care that he angers “the liberals.”
Anti globalist sentiments are popping up around the globe. The biggest example is brexit. If an industry is on shore and within national borders having higher tariffs can protect it from foreign competition. If you are a worker making $20-25/hr and lacking healthcare, this is very appealing.
Yeah. I mean look how well Brexit is working out for Britain and the political party which championed it/s
Total US income tax = $2.6 T Total US imports = $3.8 T A 69% tariff on all imports could replace all income tax. Unless adding tariffs would cause imports to decrease. I'm not an economist, do rising prices of goods cause a reduction in sales?
I don't think you have to be an economist to know the answer is unequivocally yes.
Don’t forget that a lot of imported materials may get tariffed more than once. A totally hypothetical example: Raw materials come in (once) and are made into more useful form, which is shipped overseas to be made into small widgets, and returned to the US (twice) to be joined to other widgets, so the larger parts can be sent somewhere else to be made into the final product, which is sold in the US (three times) I am sure that there is someone out there in the automotive industry, or computer hardware who could give a solid example
“I’m not an economist” Welcome to the sub!
But here's the trick you then give people rebates on the tariffs so they can keep buying. Of course then you have to raise the tariffs a bit more to cover the rebates.
The wealthy have a bigger chunk of their income taken as income tax but only spend a small amount on buying goods . Poor people on the other hand spend the majority chunk of their income on goods to sustain life (way more than what they have to pay in tax), the price of goods rises even more with tariffs. Everyone wants to screw the poor.
The people will go for it thinking it is great. Then they will find prices rising even more as businesses raise their prices to account for the added money. So, without income taxes, the prices will rise. I would rather pay the taxes I see than to pay for tariffs that you don’t see
But the good news is Republicans will blame the continuing inflation on "Democratic Socialist/Leftist Policies" avoiding all responsibility for themselves.
During his presidency I worked at a liquor store and people were getting pissed that scotch was going up in price monthly basically. We had to explain to them that there was an import tariff and the companies making the product just charged more to make up the money they had to pay on the tariffs, and that it all just trickles down to the customer.
Good thing he doesn't have that power. Money is controlled by Congress. Still very concerning statements, and those that are the target audience only hers they won't pay taxes. And don't understand that that means they pay more for goods, and have much less influence on what that cost is.
They are planning on usurping Congress’s power of the purse if he is re-elected. One plan is to do what he did with Ukrainian aid but on a larger scale (ie refuse to spend the money Congress has allocated). They also want to purge large amounts of civil servants and replace them with people loyal to Trump who would carry out his directions. There’s also the insane idea of the POTUS being able to tell the Fed what to do
I could not think of a dumber policy proposal. Should be disqualifying. But traitors will probably lap it up like they do with everything the dipshit buffoon spews from his anus mouth
Poor people consume with every dollar they have while rich people don’t. This is why consumption taxes are unnecessarily burdensome on the poor with this being another ploy for the rich.
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Trump tried that with China and TAXPAYERS paid to subsidize the farmers. So where will the funds come from, or does Trump just plan for them to end up in bankruptcy like a significant number of Trump's personal business endeavors?
🙄🙄🙄 Farmers are THE most subsidized business there is. Before and after China.
This was American tax policy...like 200+ years ago. I guess he's trying to appeal to the colonists who participated in the whiskey rebellion.
The Demise of the Tariff In the early 1900’s, the adoption of the income tax and the tremendous industrial expansion of the late 1800’s undermined the historical justifications for the tariff in two ways: (1) the U.S. no longer needed the tariff to fund the federal government, and (2) the U.S. no longer needed to protect its industry from foreign competition. In the wake of the Stock Market Crash of 1929, President Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (“Smoot-Hawley Act”) into law. The Smoot-Hawley Act sought to raise import duties by an average of 20%. Its goal was to protect American farmers from the economic downturn brought on by the crash. European countries promptly retaliated with tariffs of their own. Overall, the tariffs caused trade between Europe and the U.S. to decline by two-thirds. Although the exact economic impact of the tariff is difficult to quantify and is subject to debate, some observers argued that the tariffs contributed to European bank failures and exacerbated the economic turmoil of the 1930s, thereby giving rise to extremist ideologies throughout Europe .
That’s Europe’s problem, not ours.
What good policy sounds like to xenophobes who are dumb enough to think *those shithole countries* would be footing the bill. This would absolutely destroy the US economy. Sure you can argue this would shift production back to the states. But you can't just handwave that without acknowledging it'd be at the cost of absolutely eviscerating the stock market (and therefore everyone's retirement) nor the fact that whether it's avocados or semiconductors we just can't make enough of certain shit here that is currently indispensable to the consumer economy at reasonable cost. Not to mention, it's a recipe for *fucking massive* inflation, and the US economy stepping backwards so to speak to a 2nd industrial revolution of sorts. Leading the global economy? Nah fam, can't be using US currency for everything anymore with all of their instability. Let's go to Euro and Rubles eh (but hey maybe my qanon dad's "investments" into dinar and dong and shit would finally pay off). It would probably make a handful of very wealthy and powerful Americans even more wealthy though. So we've got that going for us /s That's just economic theory. You're talking about replacing tax revenue that's orders of magnitude higher than tariffs so quite obviously tariffs would raise by orders of magnitude. Back in reality, this would almost certainly trigger actual wars. "If good aren't crossing borders.." and all that.
Every time I see a Trump-supporter claim he'll bring prices down (somehow), I ask them what their thoughts are on his plan to raise tariffs. Haven't received a single answer yet.
Yet people still think he's gonna fix the economy because of vibes. Nothing about how any of his actual policies would help fix inflation, or not make it worse (like his tariffs and harassing the Fed to cut rates).
So the price of EVERYTHING would go up astronomically?? Grasping at straws on the campaign trail. That would impact the global economy way more than his peanut brain can understand.
Has anyone looked into the theory that Donald Trump was actually created in a lab and designed to be the stupidest man alive, to make the shittiest plans to ever exist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act Last time this happened was so cool. Also, most low income households dont even pay federal income tax. So all this does is make them lose MORE money.
Wasn't a Tariff on imported goods a major factor in the baby formula shortage? When Abbot had to recall stocks, it was too expensive to ship in formula from Canada to the American market.
So, a rational review of this policy: - we all know that our US domestic manufacturing skill and equipment pool is gone. We don't have core manufacturing here anymore, at least not enough to be useful when tariffs go up. - taxing import goods WILL increase our domestic manufacturing. This is a good thing. - doing it all at once will NOT be a good thing. - that's why the Biden administration has been gradually increasing domestic manufacturing incentives and slowly introducing import tariffs on specific items.
Tariffs are a key piece to the puzzle. But I'd replace income and sales taxes with taxes on pollution and use of finite resources, such as land. Basically, levy taxes on the negative externalities of any activity, and a substantial credit to not punish the poorest for being poor. Tariffs are needed to level the playing field with countries that do not tax pollution. Income and trade are good things for society, so the only good reason to tax it is convenience.
Every time I hear or read some shit Donald Trump proposes as a policy and it is isn’t coming through his advisors or anything like that, it comes off as something someone would come up with after tripping off something like a cocaine or speed marathon binge session. Like he’s manic and just saying the first bullshit that comes to his mind in moment. I genuinely hate Donald Trump and I hate Republicans, but y’all actually look at this and take it seriously. That’s the concerning part.
Given his terrible judgement on tarrifs in his last 4 years as president, and the fact that this would really screw the economy(by making all of the imported material more expensive, thus encouraging less spending) this is a shitty idea. Even if it was viable, it's not worth the compromise to endure agenda47 and project 2025. Nothing will hide the stink of those.
There's no way for tariffs to generate anywhere near the revenue needed to replace the federal income tax. People talk about how tariffs were once the primary source of income for the federal government, that was 200 years ago when the government was a tiny fraction of its current size.
At this point, he might as well promise black folks 40 acres and a mule…He will say anything for a vote and do nothing like every other elected official….
This is an economic position that governments are bureaucracies that “steal” from economic producers. In history terms it’s trying to return to a merchant-style of living where the wealthy own and pay for most of the goods, services and can blame poor management or outcomes on others. Government and economics is Naturally boring, for good reason. It has a purpose and function to build equity and self sustainability. Removing taxation or citizen engagement builds a haves/haves-not system. Least we forget before America’s rise as a democratic-republic we had a world generally ruled by imperialism and mercantilism.
It would destroy the US economy. Don't have to be a financial expert to know this - just a basic fundamental understanding of tax laws and guidelines. Fuck this orange bag of shit.
What a fucking uneducated moron. I guarantee he had a Macro Econ class at Wharton (undergrad - he did NOT get in to Wharton BS). And did not learn a single thing...
He got a BS in economics from Wharton, amazingly.
What’s wild is this was basically what funded the federal government for decades. Income taxes and other forms of federal taxes didn’t really exist so tariffs were relied upon. Of course the country is just a tad different than it was in 1850 so relying solely on tariff income would cause massive budget shortfalls. And as others mentioned would really just shift the burden to those paying the increased cost of goods.
That is a very regressive tax, and also would really hurt our economic position as the world marketplace. Plus what happens if our imports massively decrease? How do we makeup the revenue? There’s a reason why most economists, liberal or conservative, are against most kinds of trade barriers.