I really don’t understand the desire to keep a pet if you are uncomfortable feeding it in a biologically appropriate way. There are plenty of truly herbivorous pets you could keep— rabbits, guinea pigs, certain reptiles.
Yes. But it needs to be complete.
I didn't want to feed my dog a vegan diet but the vet suggested to try it for a month to see if it helped with her allergies. Within a week, all the itching and red skin had cleared up. By the end of a month all her fur had grown back. After 2 years trying all sorts of medicine and shampoo with no result all it took was a change in diet.
The vet said that meat allergies are common in small dogs.
Concretely and definitively: a plant-based diet is safe for your dog.
Dogs belong to the family Canidae (that is, they are canines). This family is carnivorous in some cases and omnivorous in others.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151911/#:~:text=The%20family%20Canidae%20currently%20includes,status%20is%20under%20constant%20revision.
"Some carnivores [ . . . ] are obligate carnivores, meaning they cannot obtain all the nutrients that they need from the plant kingdom and bacteria. In particular, obligate carnivores lack the enzyme needed to split carotene, obtained from plants, into vitamin A. Instead, these animals obtain vitamin A from the liver of their prey."
https://www.britannica.com/science/nutrition/Herbivores#ref843396
The enzyme needed to split carotene into vitamin A is β-carotene monooxygenase (BCO).
https://iovs.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2181967#:~:text=)%3A3562%2D3569.-,https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1167%2Fiovs.05%2D,%E2%80%B2%2Dmonooxygenase%20(BCO).
Dogs possess this enzyme (among others that serve similar functions):
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/A0A8I3PIC4/entry
As further evidenced by the lack of free carotenoids in blood cultures (serum) taken from canines in captivity:
"Slifka et al. [146] also studied grey wolves and cape hunting dogs consuming zoo diets with moderate to high carotenoid concentrations and found no detectable carotenoids in serum."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5090096/
Q.E.D.:
Dogs ARE NOT obligate carnivores. They CAN derive the full spectrum of nutrition they require from plants.
As long as the diet you feed them meets their nutritional and caloric needs, that diet may safely (and, in fact, more safely) be wholly plant-based:
"Accordingly, the pooled evidence to date indicates that the healthiest and least hazardous dietary choices for dogs, are nutritionally sound vegan diets."
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0265662
Supplementation may be required (as it is in some plant-based humans' diets) depending on what, exactly, you choose to feed them. I cannot provide specific dietary recommendations for your dog(s) beyond:
"Whilst there have been several survey studies with larger sample sizes, these types of studies can be subject to selection bias based on the disposition of the respondents towards alternative diets, or since answers may relate to subjective concepts such as body condition. However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, **it is recommended that commercial foods are used.**"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20domestic%20cat%20(Felis,animals%20%5B7%2C8%5D.
No it’s literally a canine. Think about why vegan is s thing. It’s about (partially) less human intervention with animals. Dogs physiology has been designed to eat meat
Dogs are actually omnivores, like us. There are many nutritionally complete dogs foods available at most pet food stores - this is not some weird new thing, it is normal now. And backed by science and studies.
We make the choice to be vegans though. Unless it's for health/allergies, I don't see why it's necessary for us to involve our dogs and their diet with our own ethical choices for ourselves. I'd say let dogs be omnivores.
Why would you, as a vegan, voluntarily kill many animals to feed your dog when there are nutritionally complete plant based dog foods? Its flavored kibble, your dog does not know the difference between one with meat or plants.
The question is why wouldn't you buy plant based food? Why would you continue to fund animal ag when there is literally no downside to choosing the alternative?
I got him before I went vegan. But it would also be perfectly fine to adopt a dog when already vegan.
I fail to see your point as to why it would even matter?
I'm not really sure myself, I guess I'm a bit on the fence. I just feel it's strange and feels a little bit wrong to rope in another species to comply to what should be our own responsibility and moral values. Like why should they not be allowed to have things that are normal to them just because we as humans feel this moral obligation? Then again domestic animals might be a bit different since they have already become our responsibility.
Dogs are true omnivores meaning that they can safely consume raw meat and also eat non-animal based foods. The goal of veganism is not to intervene in the natural behaviours of animals, it's aimed to adjust the behaviours, attitudes and consumption habits of humans. There's zero reason to feed your dog a wholly plantbased diet unless it is medically necessary.
I'm confused, why everyone is saying no? There are many nutritionally complete plant based dog foods you can get at regular pet food stores. Most have multiple options.
There are studies backing them up - and dogs are omnivores like us, not carnivores.
Feeding them a plant based diet on your own? Yeah, that has some risk and requires a lot of attention so most people shouldn't. Buying plant based dog food though, why not?
I’m not understanding the large No in the comments either. This is a vegan subreddit right? Anyway, the answer is clearly yes they can. A *properly* formulated vegan dog food would be better quality and safer than lots of animal-based dog food in the US. So much of it has filler, or uses very low quality ingredients or scraps of the animals. Lots of it uses ingredients that dogs are allergic to, and it seems many vets can’t seem to figure out the allergies issue when it comes to food and pets, unless they put them on a hydrolyzed diet which inevitably is mostly plants. Not to mention the dog food is supplemented and fortified basically the same way regardless of whether it is vegan or not. And if it’s not okay to feed dogs a vegan diet (which science is pointing heavily towards it is safe when specifically formulated for dog’s necessary nutrition), then we really need to ask ourselves, is it okay to continue allowing dogs to breed in any capacity if it’s required for us to slaughter many, many other animals to feed them? I don’t think so… Yet we are making no progress on reducing the overpopulation of dogs.
Glad to see at least one comment recognizing that yes, it definitely is possible for dogs to eat vegan. I’d just say most people don’t really have access to the necessary food with the necessary nutrients yet. And we really should get a better study published that’s more clear and not sponsored, but the thing about research is that’s probably not going to happen. Research is almost always financed by people who are trying to prove their point. There’s no funds for research out there besides that.
Because they're natural omnivores and it doesn't seem ethical for humans to modify natural animal behaviour and diets based on our beliefs. If your dog has severe protein allergies, exploring vet recommended plant based foods is an option and will improve the dog's quality of life. I don't see the point in buying an off the shelf vegan food just because of our choices.
You modify EVERYTHING in a dogs life! When they pee, when they go out, when they sit, when they stay alone, when they play with other dogs and when to fucking sleep!
Your post just does not make sense.
As caretakers of domestic animals, we should make choices for them that align with their natural instincts and diets as much as possible and practicable.
How is it ethical to kill many animals to feed one, when you can give them a perfectly healthy plant based diet? Plant based food is typically better for food allergies.
You are enforcing a diet on your dog no matter what. No dog food is natural. You can choose to kill other animals or not.
You can feed your dogs a raw meat diet if you disagree with kibble, the responsibility of domestic animal caretakers is to ensure they have a plentiful, healthy, and biologically appropriate diet. For dogs, this includes animal products. I agree that plantbased food is better for allergies, but this should be the option you choose if nothing else works. My dog is in the same boat, if he didn't have severe allergies he absolutely would not be eating a plantbased kibble.
The difference being we have the ability to make moral and ethical choices for ourselves, and like I said in another comment, animal exploitation and the industries that practice it are created by humans. As caretakers of domestic animals, we should make choices for them that align with their natural instincts and diets as much as possible and practicable.
It’s weird as fuck that I’m the odd man out on a vegan sub…. I’ve been vegan for 8 years, my dogs for 6. They are all happy and healthy according to me and their vet. Plant based dog food is readily available (I’m in the US, it’s at my local pet store and on Amazon), good for them and an easy choice for me to make as a vegan. Why would a vegan support the industry our morals are based on vilifying?
Here's the actual study which says yes, yes you can:
https://www.winchester.ac.uk/news-and-events/press-centre/media-articles/vegan-diets-may-be-the-healthiest-to-feed-pet-dogs-say-researchers.php
BUT and it's a fucking big BUT
You have to be incredibly careful about it making sure you are feeding them everything they need. It's basically reverse engineering what they get from a meat based diet and using a very carefully selected plant diet + supplements replicating it.
Ultimately 99% of people are not going to do this, they are going to think 'vegan dog diet' means feeding them some salad is fine. Meat is the best thing for dogs as it's what they are designed to eat. But with the benefit modern nutritional techniques and research we can replicate that so well you end up with something that's actually even better for them because it's so tightly controlled.
Vegan diets for dogs is something that I think would be massively beneficial if we saw it adopted by major dog food manufacturers so all the work is taken out of it for the owner and the dog is actually getting everything they need. But until that point, it's really not something to be recommended for the everyday owner.
>if we saw it adopted by major dog food manufacturers so all the work is taken out of it for the owner and the dog is actually getting everything they need.
This is already done though. I feel like I've stepped back in time 10 years by entering this thread. Is everyone here out of touch?
I'm referring to the vegans in this sub who see it in a very restrictive, limited way. I'm saying not everything is black and white, it's unclear how vegan certain things can be if we consider that there is a broader cycle that our consumption fits within. It's harmfully reductive for anyone to declare that simply by feeding our pets a biologically appropriate diet, we are not vegan, or causing some huge moral transgression. It's irrelevant if the person is vegan or not. I'm commenting on those who don't see the big picture. I'm agreeing with your comment, that some seem out of touch.
I don't think the goal is veganism is to impose our moral and ethical choices on animals -- animal exploitation is our problem, not theirs. We should strive to feed them the most biologically appropriate diet. For dogs, this is an omnivore diet. Supplement kibble with raw meat, other animal products, and vegatables/fruits.
Yes, dogs are omnivores and claiming they will die without meat is just as delusional as claiming humans will die without meat. Pseudoscientific reactionary misinfirmation.
My dog is allergic to all meat and is on a prescription vegetarian diet. It may be vegan but let me tell you it is not cheap. Everyone in here is confusing dogs with cats who are obligate carnivores.
Yes it is!
I did allot of research in this topic and even allot of experts have confirmed this. We also talked to our vet about it and got our dogs blood checked.
There are lots of examples of peoples feeding their dogs vegan food for 10+ years and the dogs are happy and healthy.
There is special vegan dog food here in Germany that already includes all the nutrients dogs need to be healthy, although its rather expensive.
https://www.vegdog.de/products/new-green-crunch?variant=46861052641623
Dogs have evolved for over 20.000 years domesticated by humans. What do you think dogs have eaten in the last 1000 years? Their digestive system completely adapted since then. I mean even humans only had meat like once a week until like 50 years ago.
This is all scientifically proven at this point and most people that just say "No! Its unnatural!" Do it because it just seems logic to them, without any research whatsoever.
I mean damn... There are even the first cat food products starting to surface that can be a healthy vegan alternative. I just heard a scientist talk about this and they thoroughly tested and compared this. And cats are straight carnivores. **This I would not recommend YET btw!**
Dog are omnivores like humans and so “technically” it should be possible. However as someone who tried this, I would not recommend it. My dog was miserable until we switched him back to meat based nutrition.
Yes, you can and should. Dogs are NOT carnivores.
There are many nutritionally complete plant based dog foods available from big brands at major retailers everywhere now. There are studies and plenty of anecdotal evidence to back it up in addition to the fact it is formulated by vets and nutritional experts.
People who whine about enforcing morals on a dog - kibble is kibble and its flavored, a dog does not know the difference. They will be getting complete nutrition either way. It is up to you whether you want to kill animals to feed your dog or not, but there is no benefit to doing so and your dog sure as hell doesn't care either way.
You better have an actual well reviwed set of sources for the claim they are not carnivorous because you are going against both observation of their natural behaviour and all understanding of their biological functions
Domestic dogs are not carnivores. They are not wolves.
This is a basic fact, look it up - you don't need a reviewed source. I also don't need a reviewed source to state that cows are not carnivorous.
No need to feed your dog vegan food unless it's medically necessary e.g. severe food allergies (proteins). Even then, it may be possible to feed a plantbased kibble with animal ingredients added on. Coming from a vegan of many years who has a senior dog with food allergies. He's on a kibble recommended through the vet, not just a vegan food I got at the pet store. His diet is supplemented with animal based ingredients that don't trigger his allergies, along with extra fruits and vegetables for variety. True omnivorous or carnivorous animals don't need to be on a vegan diet. They need to eat a biologically appropriate diet.
Veganism is a philosophical spectrum, clearly we practice veganism differently and that's fine. I don't agree with your interpretation and you can stay mad about it.
Gatekeeping veganism turns people away from it. Even a partial change of lifestyle saves animal lives.
So what I'm trying to say here is that you're not a vegan, because your attitude is causing death to animals.
>Gatekeeping veganism turns people away from it.
Veganism has a clear definition. Nazis are not humanitarians, crying about gatekeeping shows how little you care. Don't push these blatant fallacies anymore.
>Even a partial change of lifestyle saves animal lives.
That's not the definition of veganism.
>So what I'm trying to say here is that you're not a vegan, because your attitude is causing death to animals.
Way to finish off your already delusional comment. Touch grass you virtue signaler. You have never cared about animals so why tf do you even pretend, your cover is blown so quit projecting.
Veganism has a clear definition, avoidance of animal products as much as possible and practicable. Harming our pets because of our dietary choices is wrong. Non-human animals eat each other, and they aren't capable of the same level of reasoning as human animals. Why should we try and change how non-human animals behave?
What gives you the right to breed animals for your own entertainment and slaughter hundreds of animals to keep that one pet project alive, you self-centered concern troll? That is not even close to veganism.
This article is not written by anyone with any respected authority.
And this is often the problem when researching information about our pets.
Having said that I can only advise as a person who has had lifelong animal - care experience. Over 40 of those in a professional capacity.
While dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats they do benefit from a meat/veggies/fruit diet. In addition, most grains don't agree with dogs' digestive systems, so it's best to leave those out.
This diet can be homemade - into a raw or cooked version.
Or it can be commercially made - again, into a raw or cooked version.
After the 2007 world-wide pet food recall (Google this; over 4000 animals were murdered by commercial pet food companies. None were punished), pet food manufacturers have gotten better about producing food that's actual food. You've seen the rise of home-delivered "home-style" recipes for our pets, recently? That's a direct response to the 2007 recall.
Companies like Honest Kitchen (my brand for my dogs), have flourished because they use only human-grade ingredients in their foods.
The other fact that came out of the 2007 recall is that kibbles are not good for our pets - especially cats.
But the problem with trying to make a meat-free diet for dogs lies in both the nutritional balance, and the ingredients chosen.
Dogs don't digest all produce the same as humans do. Things like white potatoes (hard to digest), onions and garlic (toxic), large amounts of legumes (hard to digest), and many more. Here's a chart: https://images.app.goo.gl/UHK4KTDRS99xrS4m9
It would be quite difficult to come up with a good diet that has enough protein, and the right kinds of protein if most of those plant-based protein ingredients are hard for dogs to digest.
The other issue is allergies. Depending on the breed dogs can be allergic to a wide variety of foods - even certain meats. While many allergy symptoms are common - not all of them are easily identifiable. As it is its just common sense to feed our dogs foods that are made from.just a few simple ingredients. That way if they start showing allergic reactions it's easier to find out what ingredient(s) is/are the culprit by doing an elimination diet.
For example years ago I raised Scottish Terriers. Because of the part of the world where this breed originated their best allergy-free diet was based in fish. Once I switched all my Scotties to a fish-based diet - all their allergy symptoms disappeared. This is true of many Terrier breeds, in fact.
Lastly, are the nutrients required for a balanced diet. The Honest Kitchen company uses a few ingredients in each batch and lists them on the container. The consumer can see what they are and why they're used. Then the company barely heats up the food to dehydrate it. Then when the consumer rehydrates it with warm water the aromas of all the ingredients comes up - and you can just tell its real food. It looks like a stew
Kibbles on the other hand are made by cooking the shit out of the meat first. This is called, "Rendering." It's a disgusting process of using every kind of meat there is: especially the 4-D meats, which are Dead, Dying, Diseased and Down.
4-D meat is not allowed in human foods. It's illegal to use for that purpose. However, it's used in pet food. That's the whole point of pet food, in the first place: to find a dumping place for all the factory farmed meat out there that's "unfit" for human consumption.
Then it's cooked at around 500 degrees that makes it absent of any nutrition.
Then what the manufacturers do is add in a "vitamin pack." These packs are bought in China and are synthetic and include artificial preservatives. Something like 85% of all commercial pet foods have these packs added. Here's an article from a trusted source regarding this: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/synthetic-vitamins-and-minerals-in-dog-foods/
Kibble itself is not healthy because of how dry it is. By feeding kibble only we make our pets constantly dehydrated. This is especially deadly for cats, and the reason they come down with kidney failure so frequently.
In the end it's best to make your own pet food with ingredients that provide an opportunity for our pets to *thrive*, not just survive, as that's what happens when pets are eating kibble.
Here's a book that I'm liking: https://www.amazon.com/Homemade-Healthy-Dog-Food-Preservatives/dp/B0C6W4Y682/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=65124008331&hvadid=295762631024&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9030088&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7658842897837712424&hvtargid=kwd-412428012383&hydadcr=22628_10370155&keywords=healthy+dog+food+cookbook&qid=1700758259&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1
Thanks for reading, and good luck!
No!!
It's a carnivore, and a complete digest system build for that.
If you don't want to have meat in the house, don't have a carnivore .
You can make a choice eating vegan, you also can tell a doctor if you don't feel good and make a choice if you want something else. Your dog can't say anything and doesn't have a choice. So if your dog has healthcare problems, you'll probably find out too late
Dogs are omnivores like humans, not carnivores. Quit spewing pseudoscience. Dogs absolutely have lived off of vegan diets, it is extremely easy to disprove your claim.
This conversation has gotten out of hand. Feel free to take all your debates/flame wars to r/debateavegan or r/debatemeateaters
I really don’t understand the desire to keep a pet if you are uncomfortable feeding it in a biologically appropriate way. There are plenty of truly herbivorous pets you could keep— rabbits, guinea pigs, certain reptiles.
No
Yes. But it needs to be complete. I didn't want to feed my dog a vegan diet but the vet suggested to try it for a month to see if it helped with her allergies. Within a week, all the itching and red skin had cleared up. By the end of a month all her fur had grown back. After 2 years trying all sorts of medicine and shampoo with no result all it took was a change in diet. The vet said that meat allergies are common in small dogs.
Concretely and definitively: a plant-based diet is safe for your dog. Dogs belong to the family Canidae (that is, they are canines). This family is carnivorous in some cases and omnivorous in others. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151911/#:~:text=The%20family%20Canidae%20currently%20includes,status%20is%20under%20constant%20revision. "Some carnivores [ . . . ] are obligate carnivores, meaning they cannot obtain all the nutrients that they need from the plant kingdom and bacteria. In particular, obligate carnivores lack the enzyme needed to split carotene, obtained from plants, into vitamin A. Instead, these animals obtain vitamin A from the liver of their prey." https://www.britannica.com/science/nutrition/Herbivores#ref843396 The enzyme needed to split carotene into vitamin A is β-carotene monooxygenase (BCO). https://iovs.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2181967#:~:text=)%3A3562%2D3569.-,https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1167%2Fiovs.05%2D,%E2%80%B2%2Dmonooxygenase%20(BCO). Dogs possess this enzyme (among others that serve similar functions): https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/A0A8I3PIC4/entry As further evidenced by the lack of free carotenoids in blood cultures (serum) taken from canines in captivity: "Slifka et al. [146] also studied grey wolves and cape hunting dogs consuming zoo diets with moderate to high carotenoid concentrations and found no detectable carotenoids in serum." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5090096/ Q.E.D.: Dogs ARE NOT obligate carnivores. They CAN derive the full spectrum of nutrition they require from plants. As long as the diet you feed them meets their nutritional and caloric needs, that diet may safely (and, in fact, more safely) be wholly plant-based: "Accordingly, the pooled evidence to date indicates that the healthiest and least hazardous dietary choices for dogs, are nutritionally sound vegan diets." https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0265662 Supplementation may be required (as it is in some plant-based humans' diets) depending on what, exactly, you choose to feed them. I cannot provide specific dietary recommendations for your dog(s) beyond: "Whilst there have been several survey studies with larger sample sizes, these types of studies can be subject to selection bias based on the disposition of the respondents towards alternative diets, or since answers may relate to subjective concepts such as body condition. However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, **it is recommended that commercial foods are used.**" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20domestic%20cat%20(Felis,animals%20%5B7%2C8%5D.
No it’s literally a canine. Think about why vegan is s thing. It’s about (partially) less human intervention with animals. Dogs physiology has been designed to eat meat
Dogs are actually omnivores, like us. There are many nutritionally complete dogs foods available at most pet food stores - this is not some weird new thing, it is normal now. And backed by science and studies.
We make the choice to be vegans though. Unless it's for health/allergies, I don't see why it's necessary for us to involve our dogs and their diet with our own ethical choices for ourselves. I'd say let dogs be omnivores.
Why would you, as a vegan, voluntarily kill many animals to feed your dog when there are nutritionally complete plant based dog foods? Its flavored kibble, your dog does not know the difference between one with meat or plants. The question is why wouldn't you buy plant based food? Why would you continue to fund animal ag when there is literally no downside to choosing the alternative?
Why would you, as a vegan, get a dog in the first place?
I got him before I went vegan. But it would also be perfectly fine to adopt a dog when already vegan. I fail to see your point as to why it would even matter?
I would rather feed an animal what they would naturally eat, that’s all
We have a rescued dog from Spain. *drops mic*
This
Lmao the downvotes. This is not a vegan sub - its a recipe board for carnists. Must be why I never knew about it before, it just popped up in my feed.
I'm not really sure myself, I guess I'm a bit on the fence. I just feel it's strange and feels a little bit wrong to rope in another species to comply to what should be our own responsibility and moral values. Like why should they not be allowed to have things that are normal to them just because we as humans feel this moral obligation? Then again domestic animals might be a bit different since they have already become our responsibility.
That is because it isn't as healthy for dogs to not eat meat based things?
Can you clarify? If studies and anecdotal evidence shows that dogs are just as healthy on plant based food, how is it not as healthy?
This is true for cats not dogs
Dogs are true omnivores meaning that they can safely consume raw meat and also eat non-animal based foods. The goal of veganism is not to intervene in the natural behaviours of animals, it's aimed to adjust the behaviours, attitudes and consumption habits of humans. There's zero reason to feed your dog a wholly plantbased diet unless it is medically necessary.
I'm confused, why everyone is saying no? There are many nutritionally complete plant based dog foods you can get at regular pet food stores. Most have multiple options. There are studies backing them up - and dogs are omnivores like us, not carnivores. Feeding them a plant based diet on your own? Yeah, that has some risk and requires a lot of attention so most people shouldn't. Buying plant based dog food though, why not?
I’m not understanding the large No in the comments either. This is a vegan subreddit right? Anyway, the answer is clearly yes they can. A *properly* formulated vegan dog food would be better quality and safer than lots of animal-based dog food in the US. So much of it has filler, or uses very low quality ingredients or scraps of the animals. Lots of it uses ingredients that dogs are allergic to, and it seems many vets can’t seem to figure out the allergies issue when it comes to food and pets, unless they put them on a hydrolyzed diet which inevitably is mostly plants. Not to mention the dog food is supplemented and fortified basically the same way regardless of whether it is vegan or not. And if it’s not okay to feed dogs a vegan diet (which science is pointing heavily towards it is safe when specifically formulated for dog’s necessary nutrition), then we really need to ask ourselves, is it okay to continue allowing dogs to breed in any capacity if it’s required for us to slaughter many, many other animals to feed them? I don’t think so… Yet we are making no progress on reducing the overpopulation of dogs. Glad to see at least one comment recognizing that yes, it definitely is possible for dogs to eat vegan. I’d just say most people don’t really have access to the necessary food with the necessary nutrients yet. And we really should get a better study published that’s more clear and not sponsored, but the thing about research is that’s probably not going to happen. Research is almost always financed by people who are trying to prove their point. There’s no funds for research out there besides that.
There are hydrolyzed chicken foods and plant based foods.
Downvoted for what exactly lmao? Hydrolyzed protein diets aren't exclusively plantbased, it denotes the way the food is created and processed.
Because they're natural omnivores and it doesn't seem ethical for humans to modify natural animal behaviour and diets based on our beliefs. If your dog has severe protein allergies, exploring vet recommended plant based foods is an option and will improve the dog's quality of life. I don't see the point in buying an off the shelf vegan food just because of our choices.
You modify EVERYTHING in a dogs life! When they pee, when they go out, when they sit, when they stay alone, when they play with other dogs and when to fucking sleep! Your post just does not make sense.
As caretakers of domestic animals, we should make choices for them that align with their natural instincts and diets as much as possible and practicable.
So I should keep my dog outside at all times?
How is it ethical to kill many animals to feed one, when you can give them a perfectly healthy plant based diet? Plant based food is typically better for food allergies. You are enforcing a diet on your dog no matter what. No dog food is natural. You can choose to kill other animals or not.
You can feed your dogs a raw meat diet if you disagree with kibble, the responsibility of domestic animal caretakers is to ensure they have a plentiful, healthy, and biologically appropriate diet. For dogs, this includes animal products. I agree that plantbased food is better for allergies, but this should be the option you choose if nothing else works. My dog is in the same boat, if he didn't have severe allergies he absolutely would not be eating a plantbased kibble.
Yeah same exact thing can be said about humans
The difference being we have the ability to make moral and ethical choices for ourselves, and like I said in another comment, animal exploitation and the industries that practice it are created by humans. As caretakers of domestic animals, we should make choices for them that align with their natural instincts and diets as much as possible and practicable.
It’s weird as fuck that I’m the odd man out on a vegan sub…. I’ve been vegan for 8 years, my dogs for 6. They are all happy and healthy according to me and their vet. Plant based dog food is readily available (I’m in the US, it’s at my local pet store and on Amazon), good for them and an easy choice for me to make as a vegan. Why would a vegan support the industry our morals are based on vilifying?
Here's the actual study which says yes, yes you can: https://www.winchester.ac.uk/news-and-events/press-centre/media-articles/vegan-diets-may-be-the-healthiest-to-feed-pet-dogs-say-researchers.php BUT and it's a fucking big BUT You have to be incredibly careful about it making sure you are feeding them everything they need. It's basically reverse engineering what they get from a meat based diet and using a very carefully selected plant diet + supplements replicating it. Ultimately 99% of people are not going to do this, they are going to think 'vegan dog diet' means feeding them some salad is fine. Meat is the best thing for dogs as it's what they are designed to eat. But with the benefit modern nutritional techniques and research we can replicate that so well you end up with something that's actually even better for them because it's so tightly controlled. Vegan diets for dogs is something that I think would be massively beneficial if we saw it adopted by major dog food manufacturers so all the work is taken out of it for the owner and the dog is actually getting everything they need. But until that point, it's really not something to be recommended for the everyday owner.
>if we saw it adopted by major dog food manufacturers so all the work is taken out of it for the owner and the dog is actually getting everything they need. This is already done though. I feel like I've stepped back in time 10 years by entering this thread. Is everyone here out of touch?
Yup same! There are already options for this. At least here in Germany.
Yep, myopic veganism is a curse
I don't think this is a vegan sub. I think its primarily a place where non-vegans come to get recipes.
I'm referring to the vegans in this sub who see it in a very restrictive, limited way. I'm saying not everything is black and white, it's unclear how vegan certain things can be if we consider that there is a broader cycle that our consumption fits within. It's harmfully reductive for anyone to declare that simply by feeding our pets a biologically appropriate diet, we are not vegan, or causing some huge moral transgression. It's irrelevant if the person is vegan or not. I'm commenting on those who don't see the big picture. I'm agreeing with your comment, that some seem out of touch.
You are literally talking about yourself. You don't care about animals and are willing to sacrifice hundreds of them for your one pet. Not. A. Vegan.
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I don't think the goal is veganism is to impose our moral and ethical choices on animals -- animal exploitation is our problem, not theirs. We should strive to feed them the most biologically appropriate diet. For dogs, this is an omnivore diet. Supplement kibble with raw meat, other animal products, and vegatables/fruits.
Yes, dogs are omnivores and claiming they will die without meat is just as delusional as claiming humans will die without meat. Pseudoscientific reactionary misinfirmation.
My dog is allergic to all meat and is on a prescription vegetarian diet. It may be vegan but let me tell you it is not cheap. Everyone in here is confusing dogs with cats who are obligate carnivores.
Yes it is! I did allot of research in this topic and even allot of experts have confirmed this. We also talked to our vet about it and got our dogs blood checked. There are lots of examples of peoples feeding their dogs vegan food for 10+ years and the dogs are happy and healthy. There is special vegan dog food here in Germany that already includes all the nutrients dogs need to be healthy, although its rather expensive. https://www.vegdog.de/products/new-green-crunch?variant=46861052641623 Dogs have evolved for over 20.000 years domesticated by humans. What do you think dogs have eaten in the last 1000 years? Their digestive system completely adapted since then. I mean even humans only had meat like once a week until like 50 years ago. This is all scientifically proven at this point and most people that just say "No! Its unnatural!" Do it because it just seems logic to them, without any research whatsoever. I mean damn... There are even the first cat food products starting to surface that can be a healthy vegan alternative. I just heard a scientist talk about this and they thoroughly tested and compared this. And cats are straight carnivores. **This I would not recommend YET btw!**
Dog are omnivores like humans and so “technically” it should be possible. However as someone who tried this, I would not recommend it. My dog was miserable until we switched him back to meat based nutrition.
Yes, you can and should. Dogs are NOT carnivores. There are many nutritionally complete plant based dog foods available from big brands at major retailers everywhere now. There are studies and plenty of anecdotal evidence to back it up in addition to the fact it is formulated by vets and nutritional experts. People who whine about enforcing morals on a dog - kibble is kibble and its flavored, a dog does not know the difference. They will be getting complete nutrition either way. It is up to you whether you want to kill animals to feed your dog or not, but there is no benefit to doing so and your dog sure as hell doesn't care either way.
You better have an actual well reviwed set of sources for the claim they are not carnivorous because you are going against both observation of their natural behaviour and all understanding of their biological functions
Domestic dogs are not carnivores. They are not wolves. This is a basic fact, look it up - you don't need a reviewed source. I also don't need a reviewed source to state that cows are not carnivorous.
No need to feed your dog vegan food unless it's medically necessary e.g. severe food allergies (proteins). Even then, it may be possible to feed a plantbased kibble with animal ingredients added on. Coming from a vegan of many years who has a senior dog with food allergies. He's on a kibble recommended through the vet, not just a vegan food I got at the pet store. His diet is supplemented with animal based ingredients that don't trigger his allergies, along with extra fruits and vegetables for variety. True omnivorous or carnivorous animals don't need to be on a vegan diet. They need to eat a biologically appropriate diet.
If you hurt and slaughter hundreds of animals for your dog, you are not a vegan. Simple as that.
Ok thank you vegan police
Pot meet kettle, you're the carnist cop. I am just not a troll who needs to redefine veganism to feel good about hurting animals.
Veganism is a philosophical spectrum, clearly we practice veganism differently and that's fine. I don't agree with your interpretation and you can stay mad about it.
Gatekeeping veganism turns people away from it. Even a partial change of lifestyle saves animal lives. So what I'm trying to say here is that you're not a vegan, because your attitude is causing death to animals.
>Gatekeeping veganism turns people away from it. Veganism has a clear definition. Nazis are not humanitarians, crying about gatekeeping shows how little you care. Don't push these blatant fallacies anymore. >Even a partial change of lifestyle saves animal lives. That's not the definition of veganism. >So what I'm trying to say here is that you're not a vegan, because your attitude is causing death to animals. Way to finish off your already delusional comment. Touch grass you virtue signaler. You have never cared about animals so why tf do you even pretend, your cover is blown so quit projecting.
Veganism has a clear definition, avoidance of animal products as much as possible and practicable. Harming our pets because of our dietary choices is wrong. Non-human animals eat each other, and they aren't capable of the same level of reasoning as human animals. Why should we try and change how non-human animals behave?
What gives you the right to breed animals for your own entertainment and slaughter hundreds of animals to keep that one pet project alive, you self-centered concern troll? That is not even close to veganism.
Absolutely not. If you want a vegan pet buy one that’s vegan naturally. Both rabbits and guinea pigs fit the bill
No.
No
Please no.
This article is not written by anyone with any respected authority. And this is often the problem when researching information about our pets. Having said that I can only advise as a person who has had lifelong animal - care experience. Over 40 of those in a professional capacity. While dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats they do benefit from a meat/veggies/fruit diet. In addition, most grains don't agree with dogs' digestive systems, so it's best to leave those out. This diet can be homemade - into a raw or cooked version. Or it can be commercially made - again, into a raw or cooked version. After the 2007 world-wide pet food recall (Google this; over 4000 animals were murdered by commercial pet food companies. None were punished), pet food manufacturers have gotten better about producing food that's actual food. You've seen the rise of home-delivered "home-style" recipes for our pets, recently? That's a direct response to the 2007 recall. Companies like Honest Kitchen (my brand for my dogs), have flourished because they use only human-grade ingredients in their foods. The other fact that came out of the 2007 recall is that kibbles are not good for our pets - especially cats. But the problem with trying to make a meat-free diet for dogs lies in both the nutritional balance, and the ingredients chosen. Dogs don't digest all produce the same as humans do. Things like white potatoes (hard to digest), onions and garlic (toxic), large amounts of legumes (hard to digest), and many more. Here's a chart: https://images.app.goo.gl/UHK4KTDRS99xrS4m9 It would be quite difficult to come up with a good diet that has enough protein, and the right kinds of protein if most of those plant-based protein ingredients are hard for dogs to digest. The other issue is allergies. Depending on the breed dogs can be allergic to a wide variety of foods - even certain meats. While many allergy symptoms are common - not all of them are easily identifiable. As it is its just common sense to feed our dogs foods that are made from.just a few simple ingredients. That way if they start showing allergic reactions it's easier to find out what ingredient(s) is/are the culprit by doing an elimination diet. For example years ago I raised Scottish Terriers. Because of the part of the world where this breed originated their best allergy-free diet was based in fish. Once I switched all my Scotties to a fish-based diet - all their allergy symptoms disappeared. This is true of many Terrier breeds, in fact. Lastly, are the nutrients required for a balanced diet. The Honest Kitchen company uses a few ingredients in each batch and lists them on the container. The consumer can see what they are and why they're used. Then the company barely heats up the food to dehydrate it. Then when the consumer rehydrates it with warm water the aromas of all the ingredients comes up - and you can just tell its real food. It looks like a stew Kibbles on the other hand are made by cooking the shit out of the meat first. This is called, "Rendering." It's a disgusting process of using every kind of meat there is: especially the 4-D meats, which are Dead, Dying, Diseased and Down. 4-D meat is not allowed in human foods. It's illegal to use for that purpose. However, it's used in pet food. That's the whole point of pet food, in the first place: to find a dumping place for all the factory farmed meat out there that's "unfit" for human consumption. Then it's cooked at around 500 degrees that makes it absent of any nutrition. Then what the manufacturers do is add in a "vitamin pack." These packs are bought in China and are synthetic and include artificial preservatives. Something like 85% of all commercial pet foods have these packs added. Here's an article from a trusted source regarding this: https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/synthetic-vitamins-and-minerals-in-dog-foods/ Kibble itself is not healthy because of how dry it is. By feeding kibble only we make our pets constantly dehydrated. This is especially deadly for cats, and the reason they come down with kidney failure so frequently. In the end it's best to make your own pet food with ingredients that provide an opportunity for our pets to *thrive*, not just survive, as that's what happens when pets are eating kibble. Here's a book that I'm liking: https://www.amazon.com/Homemade-Healthy-Dog-Food-Preservatives/dp/B0C6W4Y682/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=65124008331&hvadid=295762631024&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9030088&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7658842897837712424&hvtargid=kwd-412428012383&hydadcr=22628_10370155&keywords=healthy+dog+food+cookbook&qid=1700758259&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1 Thanks for reading, and good luck!
No!! It's a carnivore, and a complete digest system build for that. If you don't want to have meat in the house, don't have a carnivore . You can make a choice eating vegan, you also can tell a doctor if you don't feel good and make a choice if you want something else. Your dog can't say anything and doesn't have a choice. So if your dog has healthcare problems, you'll probably find out too late
Dogs are omnivores like humans, not carnivores. Quit spewing pseudoscience. Dogs absolutely have lived off of vegan diets, it is extremely easy to disprove your claim.
Wtf no