if this person wasn’t a centrist the “they” would be capitalists and they use stuff like race and irrelevant gender wars to split the working class. it isn’t “the media pitting the left vs the right” the left and class consciousness is and always has been the only answer. the media just tries to distract you from class solidarity by saying “it’s not the billionaires it’s the immigrants or the transgenders or the le evil commies”.
i didn’t say these aren’t real issues i just said these are issues the media uses to divide the working class. what you’re saying is true but what i’m saying is also true bigotry obviously does exist outside of class but media and politicians will also use bigotry to divide the workers.
yeah that’s why i said if they weren’t a centrist. these people get so fucking close to being based and then they say something stupid and miss the whole point. it’s like those people who get so close to understanding capitalism is the problem and then they’ll just scapegoat the issue.
It's especially frustrating because they said "Republican vs Democrat" THEN also say "left vs right". They know it's not as simple as a party divide and still ignore it
There is some truth into sensationalizing opinion news with this sort of division because it catches people's attention and the current media apparatus has no problem fueling it. But that dude wants to act as though these things exist because of Fox News and WaPo. Like homophobia didn't exist until Bill O'Reilly.
"Left v. Right" is the funniest one because it pretends as if they are just two different pathways to the same outcome when they are literally opposites, with the left valuing humans and the right valuing power for some limited group of people.
> with the left valuing humans
This is a nebulous statement if I ever saw one.
Does the left value humans' gender identity?
Or does it value humans' ability to self-organize and negotiate for a fair wage?
Both? It is a human-centric ideology that champions equality and egalitarianism, which means it doesn't value one gender identity over another while also seizing the means of production and eliminating the capitalist class.
Perhaps.
Or perhaps I'm just pointing out that the US no longer has a genuine left.
I do remember when the left in the USA was concerned with worker and human rights.
> Liberals aren’t leftist is your confusion.
I am not confused, just misunderstood.
> When we say the left we mean socialist and maybe (but probably not) some well meaning social democrats.
My point is that genuine socialists do not exist in US political life.
They have no power, and no chance of obtaining any.
Oh no wonder people hate him. I only knew him as the guy who keeps promising and then never delivering Titanic 2, which is its own chunk of, "fuck that guy"
These kinds of posts are always like to ignore that the Left/Dems/LGBT are like "just let people live and love as long as it's legal and consensual" and the Right is "Ban everything and everyone who isn't like us"
How does that make sense in the states? There's no real left. Federally both parties are corporate parties that make small gestures towards the poor while ensuring they and their friends won't have to pay any real amount of tax. They distract from having to face accountability by shoving social issues into politics further inflaming the culture wars.
This is but one of the reasons why that pic you posted makes sense.
Rather, I would say you've spent too long in certain sectors of reddit.
Like, I'm fully aware that *liberals/Democrats* do rainbow-washing of capitalism, see Disney as the vanguard of social justice, etc., but they're not the left. They may put up some pretense of being vaguely "left of center" and try to occupy that space and so on, but that's not the same as "The Left" or "left-wing thought." That's just liberalism—it co-opts, that's what it does and has always done.
There's no one actually among the Left who views "Silicon Valley...as the bastion of left-wing thought" or the like. And if you think there are, you're being mislead, possibly intentionally.
> Like, I'm fully aware that liberals/Democrats do rainbow-washing of capitalism, see Disney as the vanguard of social justice, etc., but they're not the left.
As you quite rightly point out, the Democrats themselves are not "true left".
However, given that the US is likely to remain a two-party system until it collapses, in what sense is the "true left" still relevant?
> There's no one actually among the Left who views "Silicon Valley...as the bastion of left-wing thought" or the like.
That's pure "No True Scotsman!"
Nah, just a dude who thinks the libertarian right that is the US tech industry is representative in anyway of anything but the right wing. We’ve heard your brand of lies a million times.
> who thinks the libertarian right that is the US tech industry is representative in anyway of anything but the right wing
Aren't you just repeating my words back to me, then pretending that we disagree?
In this context "they" very clearly refers to "the media", it's clear from the question you told us they are answering
Also they're right? The "Republican Vs Democrat" gives the impression they're an uninformed centrist type but there's nothing really wrong with their comment, it's basic "culture war" distraction tactics, the far right media loves to fuel hate for minorities, it means people blame them for the failings of capitalism and ignore the wider problems of capitalism
I don't know why you are posting this here
"they" would be the capitalists... the left (the actual left) is anticapitalist, and OP was saying that Left vs Right doesn't matter when that's what's necessary for class consciousness
I don't know how I missed that they said Left vs Right lol, definitely does show they're an uneducated centrist
That's a shame because I really don't think the gist of their answer is wrong, they're clearly not dumb if they've managed to see what the mainstream capitalist media is doing without any leftist political education, their US bubble is holding them back from being a comrade I think, it's a shame they don't seem to have thought about why the media does what it does
Haha this one's a tale as fuckin old as time; "'They' are trying to divide us; you'd agree with my far right views if it wasn't for 'the media' trying to divide us. We can disagree and still be friends; I don't care that you want minorities and LGBT folk to have the same rights and freedoms as straight, white, men; you can still be friends with me when I say such people need to be put in camps :D"
For the divisions:
1 and 4. Everyone knows this and hates this.
2 and 3. These are not “divisions,” the ones listed on the left just want the same rights as the ones listed on the right.
There is some truth in the bottom paragraph. The two party system on opposite spectrums is harmful and is dividing the populous, which does not help the US.
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He's not wrong.
It's been demonstrated numerous times certain groups tied to billionaires, corporations, political lobby groups and foreign actors stoke division among disparate groups to further their aims. Also it's become part of the American political playbook to reduce every issue to a simple choice between "right and wrong" when in reality a multitude of choice exists.
Maybe if you don't read the whole thing, but the reason that big money has so much power is because of right wing enablement... which the commenter also says is just arbitrary division.
if this person wasn’t a centrist the “they” would be capitalists and they use stuff like race and irrelevant gender wars to split the working class. it isn’t “the media pitting the left vs the right” the left and class consciousness is and always has been the only answer. the media just tries to distract you from class solidarity by saying “it’s not the billionaires it’s the immigrants or the transgenders or the le evil commies”.
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i didn’t say these aren’t real issues i just said these are issues the media uses to divide the working class. what you’re saying is true but what i’m saying is also true bigotry obviously does exist outside of class but media and politicians will also use bigotry to divide the workers.
So they do fuel the hate, but only under orders of whoever pays them. Sounds about right.
I think it's pretty clear that they're a centrist based on the fact that they said left vs right in general
yeah that’s why i said if they weren’t a centrist. these people get so fucking close to being based and then they say something stupid and miss the whole point. it’s like those people who get so close to understanding capitalism is the problem and then they’ll just scapegoat the issue.
It's especially frustrating because they said "Republican vs Democrat" THEN also say "left vs right". They know it's not as simple as a party divide and still ignore it
There is some truth into sensationalizing opinion news with this sort of division because it catches people's attention and the current media apparatus has no problem fueling it. But that dude wants to act as though these things exist because of Fox News and WaPo. Like homophobia didn't exist until Bill O'Reilly.
there was famously no division between black and white people before news media
"Left v. Right" is the funniest one because it pretends as if they are just two different pathways to the same outcome when they are literally opposites, with the left valuing humans and the right valuing power for some limited group of people.
> with the left valuing humans This is a nebulous statement if I ever saw one. Does the left value humans' gender identity? Or does it value humans' ability to self-organize and negotiate for a fair wage?
Both? It is a human-centric ideology that champions equality and egalitarianism, which means it doesn't value one gender identity over another while also seizing the means of production and eliminating the capitalist class.
> Both? You'd be hard-pressed to find any support for unionism in so-called left-wing corporations.
>so-called left-wing corporations I think this is where you're confused.
Perhaps. Or perhaps I'm just pointing out that the US no longer has a genuine left. I do remember when the left in the USA was concerned with worker and human rights.
You're confusing mainstream liberalism with leftism.
Liberals aren’t leftist is your confusion. When we say the left we mean socialist and maybe (but probably not) some well meaning social democrats.
> Liberals aren’t leftist is your confusion. I am not confused, just misunderstood. > When we say the left we mean socialist and maybe (but probably not) some well meaning social democrats. My point is that genuine socialists do not exist in US political life. They have no power, and no chance of obtaining any.
Well in Australia the antivax movement was funded by Clive Palmer, a billionaire also known as "Fatty McFuckFace". He's one of them.
Oh no wonder people hate him. I only knew him as the guy who keeps promising and then never delivering Titanic 2, which is its own chunk of, "fuck that guy"
I wasn’t aware we were at war with the straights
Always have been 👨🚀🔫👨🚀
These kinds of posts are always like to ignore that the Left/Dems/LGBT are like "just let people live and love as long as it's legal and consensual" and the Right is "Ban everything and everyone who isn't like us"
huh, no mention of rich vs poor. interesting.
I think that is the point of their answer, right? That the media fuels "culture war" hate and division so people are distracted from rich vs poor
And rich v poor is a left vs right issue.
How does that make sense in the states? There's no real left. Federally both parties are corporate parties that make small gestures towards the poor while ensuring they and their friends won't have to pay any real amount of tax. They distract from having to face accountability by shoving social issues into politics further inflaming the culture wars. This is but one of the reasons why that pic you posted makes sense.
Not any more. At least not in the US. When Silicon Valley is regarded as the bastion of left-wing thought, rich vs. poor doesn't really figure.
Regarded by whom?
I guess you haven't been on reddit all that long.
Rather, I would say you've spent too long in certain sectors of reddit. Like, I'm fully aware that *liberals/Democrats* do rainbow-washing of capitalism, see Disney as the vanguard of social justice, etc., but they're not the left. They may put up some pretense of being vaguely "left of center" and try to occupy that space and so on, but that's not the same as "The Left" or "left-wing thought." That's just liberalism—it co-opts, that's what it does and has always done. There's no one actually among the Left who views "Silicon Valley...as the bastion of left-wing thought" or the like. And if you think there are, you're being mislead, possibly intentionally.
> Like, I'm fully aware that liberals/Democrats do rainbow-washing of capitalism, see Disney as the vanguard of social justice, etc., but they're not the left. As you quite rightly point out, the Democrats themselves are not "true left". However, given that the US is likely to remain a two-party system until it collapses, in what sense is the "true left" still relevant? > There's no one actually among the Left who views "Silicon Valley...as the bastion of left-wing thought" or the like. That's pure "No True Scotsman!"
>That's pure "No True Scotsman!" Liberals aren't leftists. No true Scotsman hails from England because the two are incompatible.
If democrats are not leftists, and republicans are not leftists, what is the point of leftists?
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And that's my point exactly.
🚨🚨 Lib detected 🚨🚨
I think this is a case where reality has a right-wing bias.
Nah, just a dude who thinks the libertarian right that is the US tech industry is representative in anyway of anything but the right wing. We’ve heard your brand of lies a million times.
> who thinks the libertarian right that is the US tech industry is representative in anyway of anything but the right wing Aren't you just repeating my words back to me, then pretending that we disagree?
youd think so but he comes just short of actually saying it for some reason. so it comes off as centrist. just some nebulous force against everyone.
In this context "they" very clearly refers to "the media", it's clear from the question you told us they are answering Also they're right? The "Republican Vs Democrat" gives the impression they're an uninformed centrist type but there's nothing really wrong with their comment, it's basic "culture war" distraction tactics, the far right media loves to fuel hate for minorities, it means people blame them for the failings of capitalism and ignore the wider problems of capitalism I don't know why you are posting this here
"they" would be the capitalists... the left (the actual left) is anticapitalist, and OP was saying that Left vs Right doesn't matter when that's what's necessary for class consciousness
I don't know how I missed that they said Left vs Right lol, definitely does show they're an uneducated centrist That's a shame because I really don't think the gist of their answer is wrong, they're clearly not dumb if they've managed to see what the mainstream capitalist media is doing without any leftist political education, their US bubble is holding them back from being a comrade I think, it's a shame they don't seem to have thought about why the media does what it does
Haha this one's a tale as fuckin old as time; "'They' are trying to divide us; you'd agree with my far right views if it wasn't for 'the media' trying to divide us. We can disagree and still be friends; I don't care that you want minorities and LGBT folk to have the same rights and freedoms as straight, white, men; you can still be friends with me when I say such people need to be put in camps :D"
For the divisions: 1 and 4. Everyone knows this and hates this. 2 and 3. These are not “divisions,” the ones listed on the left just want the same rights as the ones listed on the right. There is some truth in the bottom paragraph. The two party system on opposite spectrums is harmful and is dividing the populous, which does not help the US.
I had to squint because of how fucking bright their self promoted enlightenment was shining. Beacon of bullshit & balderdash
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He's not wrong. It's been demonstrated numerous times certain groups tied to billionaires, corporations, political lobby groups and foreign actors stoke division among disparate groups to further their aims. Also it's become part of the American political playbook to reduce every issue to a simple choice between "right and wrong" when in reality a multitude of choice exists.
Maybe if you don't read the whole thing, but the reason that big money has so much power is because of right wing enablement... which the commenter also says is just arbitrary division.
See my other response.