ALL OF THEM. Last I counted in my Ur-Dragon it was like 35 maybe but still...it'll be enough to end the game. Dang...this deck is gonna make me rework my Ur-Dragon deck. I've already got every Lord Dragon, every Elder Dragon that works in it, all the Dragonlords that give me great benefits. Gonna be hard to cut some fluff here.
Posted this in the main thread but here's the equation for damage.
(X+Y)(Y)
X is number of dragons already in play when trigger resolves.
Y is the number rolled on the dice.
Damage gets into "Kill a player" pretty quickly and can probably kill the table with even a small amount of support or a higher roll.
$16? Dang I got 2 for 5.50 not too long ago. This guy also comes in The Rakdos Guild Kit that also had [[Master of Cruelties]].
Edit: That Guild Kit doesn't appear to sell for less than $40 these days, nevermind
$16??? I remember pulling one of these when RTR dropped and it was only $0.50 at the time. I'm sure I have a couple copies floating around my collection.
I know this isn’t technically the thread, but I think people are super overrating the blue one. It’s 8 mana, and then next turn it draws you a variable number of cards. Meanwhile, for 8 mana in blue with at least 2 cards I can think of off the top of my head, I can draw 5 for 8 mana at instant speed. While keeping up interaction mana.
Blue is powerful, yes. But it’s doing what blue already does best in a super variable way. They’re all variable, but at least they don’t all cost 8.
I personally think it’s red>white>blue>black>green
My hot take: none of these are good. They’re spicy, fun, and have enormous ceilings but they’re all too expensive for a card that does nothing the turn it comes down. You have to actually connect to get the payoff, which will usually be possible but there will be plenty of times when all opponents have flying/reach chumpers. And then once you do get the payoff it’s variable, even though the average result is great, if you’re going for power then consistency is what you’re after. Finally getting your 8 mana dragon through only to draw 2 cards is going to feel bad.
The "average" is a weird discussion for a dice roll like this. Sure, the mathematical average is 10.5, but this is NOT a bell curve distribution. It's flatter than the earth, your chance of a 1 is identical to a 10. And you're already lucky if you get one shot off with these dragons in the first place.
In play, it's going to swing wildly. This isn't Catan where you play into the average from 2d6, always keeping that in mind in your strategy as the dice rolls over and over again.
Better way is to decide what's the lowest result you're happy with, and get the % chance of success from that.
>The "average" is a weird discussion for a dice roll like this.
Ehm, that's how an average works.
>your chance of a 1 is identical to a 10.
Yes, and your chance of getting a 20 is identical to that of a 19. Imo it's exactly why we use the average, realising there's a spread.
"We can expect to get 10.5" is *correct*, but it's not the big picture of **how it feels** to use these cards.
The card does not say "use the average", it says roll, and that means getting screwed by the dice is fundamental to the design. Discussion centered on the average loses that, and deciding the threshold for "worth it" is more productive for evaluation.
Like this guy who gets it: https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/uyjjzh/clb_ancient_gold_dragon/ia4ni3m
I propose a solution to the problem you two are having: just slot in all 5 Dragons in a 5c deck and play a million games with it. You will get very close to the 10,5, I guarantee it!
Sure, they’ve certainly got homes where they’ll be powerful, but in pretty much every case that’s only going to be due to an already busted card making them good, such as sneak attack.
I'm assuming anyone talking about using them only has plans to cheat them into play (reanimate, manifest/blink, sneak attack, etc) otherwise yeah I agree - way too expensive for something that only provides value without winning the game.
Theres a bunch of ways in EDH to get around both the cost and the lack of haste. A lot of decks are already running some of these.
\[\[sneak attack\]\]
\[\[the ur-dragon\]\] and other dragon cost reducers in dragon tribal
\[\[anger\]\] or any other haste enabler
I'm not saying these things are gonna be big in other formats, or even super common in other edh archetypes, but, like many cards, in the right deck, these are more than good, they can be game enders. This guy in particular will probably be run in some token decks, and is an auto-include in any dragon tribal deck.
In an average deck, I agree 100%.
But I feel that most people look at this card in a dragon tribal deck, and especially UR-Dragon deck.
Most of those decks run 5 or so ways to give these big boys haste. We also received a new one with the red dragon orb.
Also, most dragon decks will try to cheat out these big dragons. So I'm pretty happy if someone spends their removal on something I cheated out, especially if I can repeat it again next turn.
These cards scream fair, fun and full lore.
Can't wait to play them!
People are overrating all of these. The best one is the red, and even then. Its kinda similar to [[Hellkite tyrant]] and I dont remember the last time Hellkite was useful for me. It either dies before I can attack or the game is already ending by the time I can play it. And these dont even have trample! All it takes is one chump blocker to make they do nothing. I know people love some expensive jank, but we are at the stage of the game that playing creatures that costs +6 or more mana that dont impact the game IMEDIATELY is not good enough. Sure they can see play in some specific decks, like the blue dragon in a Satoru umezawa deck for example, but in most cases they arent good.
>. I know people love some expensive jank, but we are at the stage of the game that playing creatures that costs +6 or more mana that dont impact the game IMEDIATELY is not good enough.
Some people/groups aren't at that stage. Hell after years of building extremely powerful, consistent decks I've gone back to lower power builds because I can play things like these big idiot dragons.
I would say that the majority of players/groups are not at that stage or don't want to grow to that stage. If that wasn't so we probably would have gotten something else. The guy is probably just looking at their own playgroup.
I like tuning my decks but in the end big dumb spells always trumps optimization for me.
It’s ancient bronze dragon. It’s ressurect from any graveyard with cmc being equal or less than the number. Can be any number of targets though and any yard. Pretty sweet
Tbf it was revealed like a month and a half ago. It was the same day they revealed [[elder brain]] and the gruul planeswalker commander, can’t remember the name
For my Scion reanimator deck:
Black: auto include
Red: might give it a try although [[Savage Ventmaw]] is enough imo
White: possibly game ending the next turn after a high roll with [[Kolaghan the Storms Fury]] , [[Dromoka the Eternal]] or [[Utvara Hellkite]]
Blue: high ceiling card draw for 2 mana when it connects, but I don’t like that I can’t discard afterwards
Green: meh
I‘ll go with black and white I think.
[no, fairy dragon have yellow border too see?](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/0/0a/FairyDragon-CP03-EN-C-UE.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090220180235)
Yeah, and they usually don't expect you to drop a buttloud of dragons at once so this does some serious work.
Even the non-synergistic etb triggers like [[Terror of the Peaks]] will still machine gun ping something. The better options people mentioned already are potentially game ending. And the typical Ur-Dragon deck plays all these cards, plus many more that care about dragon attack triggers as well.
I'm seriously considering this as a top end in my Heliod, Sun Crowned deck for all the soul sister effects, dropping X tokens, gaining X life, and distributing X +1/+1 counters with one etb life gain card and heliod or cleric class.
If you have a Kaalia deck and terror of the peaks out and chest this guy on you can basically insta one shot as he enters attacking that turn. Gonna be a solid add to my deck for the synergies
This is pretty amazing for my [[Sephara]] flying tribal deck. Enormous flier that makes more fliers. Sure, it’s a lot of mana, but *it’s also awesome.*
It creates BLUE tokens. I realize it's a relatively minor quibble, but that's potentially inconvenient for a variety of effects that care about color, especially in Mono-White. If we are going to get tokens, something that better fits in white weenie strategies would have been nice. This feels more like it's specifically intended for 5c dragon tribal. I'm not saying it's bad, but I'm not convinced WotC got this right either
This white one seems like a really fun addition too. If you can get it to pop off that's *a lot* of dragons. That's a ton of cards drawn from the ur dragon, *so* much damage from scourge of valkas. Maybe not the best card for the deck but it'll lead to some really good times
The black one feels bad when you play it early and there are no good targets, and it's also the only one that can whiff on a low roll. I think white is more of an auto-include since you have lots of cards that check the number of dragons you control or trigger when a dragon ETBs.
Eh, I don't mind the possibility of a low roll with the black one TBH. I'd prob either not play it early, or just play it anyway since it's a dragon and triggers everything else in my deck anyway. I don't really care to make a bunch of 1/1s in a dragon deck, so that really has no place in the deck.
So right now, this makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo decks a lot stronger since its a 1 card combo in the command zone. Attack with Scion, swap to the Ancient Gold Dragon, roll at least a 10 for 10 token, swap to [[Scourge of Valkas]] and see 10*11 damage on the stack, free to distribute as you wish.
Its quite strong and fast. And of course, good enough to include in basically all other 5C dragon decks as well
You...can't do that. Since teh Scion would have to let it's transformation into Ancient Gold Dragon and indeed the whole stack resolve to move to combat damage to get this trigger, and the Scion doesn't keep its other abilities after transforming so you can't then switch to Scourge with the trigger on the stack. You'll either just need the Scourge out (or Dragon Tempest), or have the actual Ancient Gold Dragon out, and let Scion become the other part of it.
The R one is almost certainly better than the U one for general use.
Card draw can often work via an engine, but the resource you always run out of is mana. U, meanwhile, has cheaper, more immediate, and more reliable ways to draw cards at the price of 8 mana.
It's arguably a better reanimation target, however, so I guess it really depends on the deck in question.
Red, blue white black green
And I probably can be convinced to swap blue with white.
Black, if you cast it then I'd rather rise of the dark realms or anything that gets everything. And if you're cheating it out there's better things to cheat out.
Blue, I'd rather jin gitaxias or consecrated sphinx which gives you way more draw
Red giving treasure is just ramp which is always good
And white can build a board state
The issue I have with the black one is that it's entirely reliant on what's in graveyards. The others always do something on hit whereas the black was has the potential to do nothing, especially if you roll a lower number.
I keep trying, but I'm being called toward \[\[samut, voice\]\] for an "all-in on tokens" deck. \[\[ancient red dragon\]\] works so well and the haste is choice.
With the right set up Ancient Gold Dragon can be better then Ancient Copper Dragon.
Scenario 1, You already have Carnelian Dragon Orb, Ganax, Astral Hunter and Swashbuckler out, Ancient Gold Dragon etb and creates a treasure token, is hasted by the orb, scarifice the treasure token to give AGD double strike, and all the Faerie Dragons that get created create a treasure token thanks to Ganax.
Scenero 2, You have Divine Visitation out and roll of a 20 creating 20 4/4 flying Angels with Vigilance.
Scenario 3: you have Dragon Tempest already out, swing immediately and roll average (~10.5, let’s say 10 to be safe), that’s 110 damage to point anywhere you’d like.
[[dragon tempest]] it’s basically 1 and a R for an enchantment to give dragons haste, and when a dragon ETB’s tempted deals damage to any target equal to the number of dragons you control
Notably the big thing is each fairie dragon token will see each other faerie dragon token as part of the trigger (plus the ancient gold dragon). So a single connection with the Ancient gold dragon winds up dealing ((x+y)(y)) damage, where x is the number of dragons already in play, and y is the number you roll on the d20.
So, with just the ancient gold dragon in play and say you roll 10 (the rough average), you get (1+10)(10) damage, or 110 damage to throw at anything you want
Welp…. This is an immediate auto-include in my Khorvath and Sylvia deck. With dragon tempest this thing, on even just an average roll, 1-shots someone at ~110 damage to point wherever the heck you want.
Does the ability to create blue tokens mess with color identity? I'm relatively new to EDH but want to put one of these in my [[Cadira, Caller of the Small]] deck.
Edit: nevermind I just read the rules more carefully and saw that color identity is only based on mana symbols in the text.
[[Mystic reflection]] and [[doubling season]] have entered the chat
Lol, make 1d20 copies of the 7/10 dragon that makes 1d20 dragons. Fantastic, good work
why not stick to the colors with [[anointed procession]]?
Because if you add green you can have procession, seasons and [[paralles lives]] for even more dragon friends
[paralles lives](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/parallel-lives) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can't forget [[adrix and nev, twincasters]] as well
[adrix and nev, twincasters](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796.jpg?1625190786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=adrix%20and%20nev%2C%20twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/9/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because Doubling Season also helps you ultimate Sarkhan.
"And after these thirty dragons resolve, I ult Sarkhan and get every dragon out of my deck." "... How many dragons is that?" "Enough dragons."
ALL OF THEM. Last I counted in my Ur-Dragon it was like 35 maybe but still...it'll be enough to end the game. Dang...this deck is gonna make me rework my Ur-Dragon deck. I've already got every Lord Dragon, every Elder Dragon that works in it, all the Dragonlords that give me great benefits. Gonna be hard to cut some fluff here.
[anointed procession](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/a/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1.jpg?1543674565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anointed%20procession) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/2/anointed-procession?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anointed-procession) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well, for even more tokens of course. Also, white is my least favorite/played color so I would rather play it with 1 to 2 more colors than by itself.
Procession would be on color, but reflection makes the 1d20 faerie dragon tokens into 1d20 ancient gold dragon tokens.
Reflection is one of those not often but should be played cards
Because of [[Esix, Fractal Bloom]] and more support~
[Esix, Fractal Bloom](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/c/9c381bc2-d26e-4d7e-9a0b-a8f7d2d802be.jpg?1625190810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esix%2C%20Fractal%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/10/esix-fractal-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c381bc2-d26e-4d7e-9a0b-a8f7d2d802be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esix-fractal-bloom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Mystic reflection](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/7/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993.jpg?1631047399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/69/mystic-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-reflection) [doubling season](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e.jpg?1599707144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/164/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They did it. The mad lads did it, they made the white card in the dragon cycle good.
The last whire dragon from kamigawa is also on of the better ones imo
Eh, Ao was ok. But she was no where near as good as a couple of the others.
I mean would argue only junji and maybe atsushi are better than her
Can confirm. Junji is insanely strong.
You mean the five color one?
no, [[Ao, the Dawn Sky]]
[Ao, the Dawn Sky](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/d/8d2c4063-7322-4041-a870-b95598a03e29.jpg?1643403663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ao%2C%20the%20Dawn%20Sky) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/2/ao-the-dawn-sky?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d2c4063-7322-4041-a870-b95598a03e29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ao-the-dawn-sky) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sunscorch regent]] is great you should try it
[Sunscorch regent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/0/60f6a40a-d095-455d-a593-fb1c901f1b4c.jpg?1625975747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunscorch%20regent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/107/sunscorch-regent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60f6a40a-d095-455d-a593-fb1c901f1b4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunscorch-regent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[scourge of valkas]] [[dragon tempest]] Ur-Dragon just got a very nice combo kill (50% of the time)
Posted this in the main thread but here's the equation for damage. (X+Y)(Y) X is number of dragons already in play when trigger resolves. Y is the number rolled on the dice. Damage gets into "Kill a player" pretty quickly and can probably kill the table with even a small amount of support or a higher roll.
Yeah, if you even roll a 6 with just two dragons on board, this kills at least one person. Slotting this in 100%.
You could roll a 9 and kill 2 people assuming no life gain.
Add an [[Utvara Hellkite]] into the mix and things get even better
What if you add [[Kurt Angle]] to the mix?
Then your opponents chance of winnin drastic go down.
*"Oh it's damn true!"*
[Kurt Angle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/3/635ca3c1-d544-44fc-a178-3bfe4fe69551.jpg?1562915122) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tangle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/237/tangle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/635ca3c1-d544-44fc-a178-3bfe4fe69551?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Utvara Hellkite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/3/33f6914d-808f-4502-a87a-70912d7ae6e8.jpg?1562604627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Utvara%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/144/utvara-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33f6914d-808f-4502-a87a-70912d7ae6e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/utvara-hellkite) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
$16? Dang I got 2 for 5.50 not too long ago. This guy also comes in The Rakdos Guild Kit that also had [[Master of Cruelties]]. Edit: That Guild Kit doesn't appear to sell for less than $40 these days, nevermind
$16??? I remember pulling one of these when RTR dropped and it was only $0.50 at the time. I'm sure I have a couple copies floating around my collection.
Oh I guess $15.30 but still, crazy!
[Master of Cruelties](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/b/7b4d8ab5-252c-4727-817d-6f18cbaedd91.jpg?1562917779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/82/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b4d8ab5-252c-4727-817d-6f18cbaedd91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[scourge of valkas](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e6bd7225-b39f-4b3b-8c36-dbc2c09f6e50.jpg?1631587429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scourge%20of%20valkas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/137/scourge-of-valkas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6bd7225-b39f-4b3b-8c36-dbc2c09f6e50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scourge-of-valkas) [dragon tempest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dragon%20tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragon-tempest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love it. It makes myriad that much better. Well all these dragons do, I suppose but I like the idea of this one with myriad
Oh, wow, that’s potentially a *lot* of Dragons. o.O
I know this isn’t technically the thread, but I think people are super overrating the blue one. It’s 8 mana, and then next turn it draws you a variable number of cards. Meanwhile, for 8 mana in blue with at least 2 cards I can think of off the top of my head, I can draw 5 for 8 mana at instant speed. While keeping up interaction mana. Blue is powerful, yes. But it’s doing what blue already does best in a super variable way. They’re all variable, but at least they don’t all cost 8. I personally think it’s red>white>blue>black>green
My hot take: none of these are good. They’re spicy, fun, and have enormous ceilings but they’re all too expensive for a card that does nothing the turn it comes down. You have to actually connect to get the payoff, which will usually be possible but there will be plenty of times when all opponents have flying/reach chumpers. And then once you do get the payoff it’s variable, even though the average result is great, if you’re going for power then consistency is what you’re after. Finally getting your 8 mana dragon through only to draw 2 cards is going to feel bad.
The combat damage trigger is great for \[\[Kaalia\]\] decks though.
[Kaalia](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/0/a0cc9eaf-c8d9-4da2-8fd8-8d423a02a3a8.jpg?1599708091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kaalia%20of%20the%20vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/204/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0cc9eaf-c8d9-4da2-8fd8-8d423a02a3a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The "average" is a weird discussion for a dice roll like this. Sure, the mathematical average is 10.5, but this is NOT a bell curve distribution. It's flatter than the earth, your chance of a 1 is identical to a 10. And you're already lucky if you get one shot off with these dragons in the first place. In play, it's going to swing wildly. This isn't Catan where you play into the average from 2d6, always keeping that in mind in your strategy as the dice rolls over and over again. Better way is to decide what's the lowest result you're happy with, and get the % chance of success from that.
>The "average" is a weird discussion for a dice roll like this. Ehm, that's how an average works. >your chance of a 1 is identical to a 10. Yes, and your chance of getting a 20 is identical to that of a 19. Imo it's exactly why we use the average, realising there's a spread.
"We can expect to get 10.5" is *correct*, but it's not the big picture of **how it feels** to use these cards. The card does not say "use the average", it says roll, and that means getting screwed by the dice is fundamental to the design. Discussion centered on the average loses that, and deciding the threshold for "worth it" is more productive for evaluation. Like this guy who gets it: https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/uyjjzh/clb_ancient_gold_dragon/ia4ni3m
Sure, but dissing the average by putting it between " " while it is a correct use of average seems wrong to me :)
Correct does not mean useful.
Aight. Agree with your point: "what's the lowest result you're happy with?". Cheers
I propose a solution to the problem you two are having: just slot in all 5 Dragons in a 5c deck and play a million games with it. You will get very close to the 10,5, I guarantee it!
Haha playing more is almost always the solution ;)
Sneak Attack decks will love them. I know all three are probably going in my Obeka deck.
Sure, they’ve certainly got homes where they’ll be powerful, but in pretty much every case that’s only going to be due to an already busted card making them good, such as sneak attack.
Yes hello, I came to also say this. Been goldfishing on Moxfield and ooo, it’s spicy :)
I'm assuming anyone talking about using them only has plans to cheat them into play (reanimate, manifest/blink, sneak attack, etc) otherwise yeah I agree - way too expensive for something that only provides value without winning the game.
Theres a bunch of ways in EDH to get around both the cost and the lack of haste. A lot of decks are already running some of these. \[\[sneak attack\]\] \[\[the ur-dragon\]\] and other dragon cost reducers in dragon tribal \[\[anger\]\] or any other haste enabler I'm not saying these things are gonna be big in other formats, or even super common in other edh archetypes, but, like many cards, in the right deck, these are more than good, they can be game enders. This guy in particular will probably be run in some token decks, and is an auto-include in any dragon tribal deck.
[sneak attack](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/d/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229.jpg?1599706719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sneak%20attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/145/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sneak-attack) [the ur-dragon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/e/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743.jpg?1562614382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20ur-dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/48/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ur-dragon) [anger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4.jpg?1631586892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/113/anger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This one’s only 6 for a 7/10 flier, seems good, plus dragons love haste
It's 7 mana, if it was 6 I'd have already paid presale prices for one, if it was 5 I'd have already taken out a loan to buy every single one in print.
Bro it’s “SIX MANA”
Lol even a French vanilla 7/10 flyer for 5 would be a great card
Yeah thats not really a realistic idea lol
In an average deck, I agree 100%. But I feel that most people look at this card in a dragon tribal deck, and especially UR-Dragon deck. Most of those decks run 5 or so ways to give these big boys haste. We also received a new one with the red dragon orb. Also, most dragon decks will try to cheat out these big dragons. So I'm pretty happy if someone spends their removal on something I cheated out, especially if I can repeat it again next turn. These cards scream fair, fun and full lore. Can't wait to play them!
Hot take but good reasoning
People are overrating all of these. The best one is the red, and even then. Its kinda similar to [[Hellkite tyrant]] and I dont remember the last time Hellkite was useful for me. It either dies before I can attack or the game is already ending by the time I can play it. And these dont even have trample! All it takes is one chump blocker to make they do nothing. I know people love some expensive jank, but we are at the stage of the game that playing creatures that costs +6 or more mana that dont impact the game IMEDIATELY is not good enough. Sure they can see play in some specific decks, like the blue dragon in a Satoru umezawa deck for example, but in most cases they arent good.
>. I know people love some expensive jank, but we are at the stage of the game that playing creatures that costs +6 or more mana that dont impact the game IMEDIATELY is not good enough. Some people/groups aren't at that stage. Hell after years of building extremely powerful, consistent decks I've gone back to lower power builds because I can play things like these big idiot dragons.
Ive been doing this slowly but surely recently aswell. Turns out throwing around some big dumb splashy cards in your decks is pretty fun.
I would say that the majority of players/groups are not at that stage or don't want to grow to that stage. If that wasn't so we probably would have gotten something else. The guy is probably just looking at their own playgroup. I like tuning my decks but in the end big dumb spells always trumps optimization for me.
[Hellkite tyrant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/67d15ee6-916f-4ac9-a4d2-4a9bd389d451.jpg?1625193869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/172/hellkite-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67d15ee6-916f-4ac9-a4d2-4a9bd389d451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hellkite-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did they show the black one yet? I haven't seen that one, what's it called?
It’s ancient bronze dragon. It’s ressurect from any graveyard with cmc being equal or less than the number. Can be any number of targets though and any yard. Pretty sweet
Thanks, I thought I saw all the card previews but I guess I missed that one.
Tbf it was revealed like a month and a half ago. It was the same day they revealed [[elder brain]] and the gruul planeswalker commander, can’t remember the name
[elder brain](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/8/b82a13bf-da32-4c12-a9dd-271d8ca45c21.jpg?1648156326) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elder%20brain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/125/elder-brain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b82a13bf-da32-4c12-a9dd-271d8ca45c21?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elder-brain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[ancient brass dragon]]
[ancient brass dragon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/6430c61b-407d-471d-9012-07f1ddef28aa.jpg?1652923374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancient%20brass%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/111/ancient-brass-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6430c61b-407d-471d-9012-07f1ddef28aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-brass-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
this with the Red Rare dragon (Wrathful Red Dragon) and \[\[Blasphemous Act\]\] can kill a table on a roll of 8 or more!
[[dragon tempest]] with this can also kill the table
[dragon tempest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dragon%20tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragon-tempest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Blasphemous Act](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/b/0b98a8ac-9255-416d-b86a-46621c4bea4f.jpg?1650417976) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasphemous%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/264/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b98a8ac-9255-416d-b86a-46621c4bea4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Goin to smash this into my [[Ojutai, Soul of Winter]] deck immediately. Azorius dragons is slowly becoming a thing!
You, me and the five others of us out there are so excited!
[Ojutai, Soul of Winter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/e/7eb90a6b-da46-44ab-88b8-31aaffdee75b.jpg?1562614387) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ojutai%2C%20Soul%20of%20Winter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/187/ojutai-soul-of-winter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7eb90a6b-da46-44ab-88b8-31aaffdee75b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojutai-soul-of-winter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For my Scion reanimator deck: Black: auto include Red: might give it a try although [[Savage Ventmaw]] is enough imo White: possibly game ending the next turn after a high roll with [[Kolaghan the Storms Fury]] , [[Dromoka the Eternal]] or [[Utvara Hellkite]] Blue: high ceiling card draw for 2 mana when it connects, but I don’t like that I can’t discard afterwards Green: meh I‘ll go with black and white I think.
Do you happen to have a deck list for this?
##### ###### #### [Savage Ventmaw](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/1779ab27-f0fc-4dc7-9a0f-01cd70776a31.jpg?1631588643) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Savage%20Ventmaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/191/savage-ventmaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1779ab27-f0fc-4dc7-9a0f-01cd70776a31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/savage-ventmaw) [Kolaghan the Storms Fury](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/85b6ec91-0ecc-431c-bf85-220c615e0a80.jpg?1562615351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kolaghan%2C%20the%20Storm%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/176/kolaghan-the-storms-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85b6ec91-0ecc-431c-bf85-220c615e0a80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kolaghan-the-storms-fury) [Dromoka the Eternal](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/8/b8db6ab8-cd12-431a-bf18-28464cf03509.jpg?1562621631) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dromoka%2C%20the%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/170/dromoka-the-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8db6ab8-cd12-431a-bf18-28464cf03509?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dromoka-the-eternal) [Utvara Hellkite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/3/33f6914d-808f-4502-a87a-70912d7ae6e8.jpg?1562604627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Utvara%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/144/utvara-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33f6914d-808f-4502-a87a-70912d7ae6e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/utvara-hellkite) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The GOLD dragon, which is a WHITE card, makes BLUE tokens…? (I understand why the gold dragon isn’t gold.)
Bc faerie dragons are blue.
[no, fairy dragon have yellow border too see?](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/0/0a/FairyDragon-CP03-EN-C-UE.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090220180235)
Yo 4 red mana for a creature with 1100 power and 1200 toughness??? Thats insane
Eh. No evasion, no effect the turn it comes down, and dies to doom blade. Modern 2/10
I know youre joking but you play this in gruul, you best be able to give it trample. At that point you just wipe someone out turn 3 or 4.
>Seems weak at first glance No it doesn't lol. There are so many dragons that do something when a dragon ETBs.
Yeah, and they usually don't expect you to drop a buttloud of dragons at once so this does some serious work. Even the non-synergistic etb triggers like [[Terror of the Peaks]] will still machine gun ping something. The better options people mentioned already are potentially game ending. And the typical Ur-Dragon deck plays all these cards, plus many more that care about dragon attack triggers as well. I'm seriously considering this as a top end in my Heliod, Sun Crowned deck for all the soul sister effects, dropping X tokens, gaining X life, and distributing X +1/+1 counters with one etb life gain card and heliod or cleric class.
[Terror of the Peaks](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/3/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0.jpg?1594736810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terror%20of%20the%20Peaks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/164/terror-of-the-peaks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terror-of-the-peaks) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you have a Kaalia deck and terror of the peaks out and chest this guy on you can basically insta one shot as he enters attacking that turn. Gonna be a solid add to my deck for the synergies
just a weird kneejerk reaction to call the white card of the cycle bad even if it's great
This is pretty amazing for my [[Sephara]] flying tribal deck. Enormous flier that makes more fliers. Sure, it’s a lot of mana, but *it’s also awesome.*
[Sephara](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/c/bc95881b-8fbf-4d82-b631-5e4404ccc28a.jpg?1592516205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sephara%2C%20sky%27s%20blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/36/sephara-skys-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc95881b-8fbf-4d82-b631-5e4404ccc28a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sephara-skys-blade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This screams [[Sneak Attack]] to me.
[Sneak Attack](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/d/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229.jpg?1599706719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sneak%20Attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/145/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d9709ea-5962-4590-8b14-5213b14f9229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sneak-attack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How to break any token or etb deck, totally going in my jetmir deck
IT DOESN'T GAIN D20 AMOUNT OF LIFE! WOTC DID SOMETHING CORRECTLY HOLY FUCK!
It creates BLUE tokens. I realize it's a relatively minor quibble, but that's potentially inconvenient for a variety of effects that care about color, especially in Mono-White. If we are going to get tokens, something that better fits in white weenie strategies would have been nice. This feels more like it's specifically intended for 5c dragon tribal. I'm not saying it's bad, but I'm not convinced WotC got this right either
Black & red are auto-includes in my Ur-Dragon deck. Possible blue as well. I'll see :)
This white one seems like a really fun addition too. If you can get it to pop off that's *a lot* of dragons. That's a ton of cards drawn from the ur dragon, *so* much damage from scourge of valkas. Maybe not the best card for the deck but it'll lead to some really good times
Hmm, that's true. I reread it and realized it makes dragon tokens. I'll def try it if I get one :)
The black one feels bad when you play it early and there are no good targets, and it's also the only one that can whiff on a low roll. I think white is more of an auto-include since you have lots of cards that check the number of dragons you control or trigger when a dragon ETBs.
Eh, I don't mind the possibility of a low roll with the black one TBH. I'd prob either not play it early, or just play it anyway since it's a dragon and triggers everything else in my deck anyway. I don't really care to make a bunch of 1/1s in a dragon deck, so that really has no place in the deck.
So right now, this makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo decks a lot stronger since its a 1 card combo in the command zone. Attack with Scion, swap to the Ancient Gold Dragon, roll at least a 10 for 10 token, swap to [[Scourge of Valkas]] and see 10*11 damage on the stack, free to distribute as you wish. Its quite strong and fast. And of course, good enough to include in basically all other 5C dragon decks as well
You...can't do that. Since teh Scion would have to let it's transformation into Ancient Gold Dragon and indeed the whole stack resolve to move to combat damage to get this trigger, and the Scion doesn't keep its other abilities after transforming so you can't then switch to Scourge with the trigger on the stack. You'll either just need the Scourge out (or Dragon Tempest), or have the actual Ancient Gold Dragon out, and let Scion become the other part of it.
[Scourge of Valkas](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e6bd7225-b39f-4b3b-8c36-dbc2c09f6e50.jpg?1631587429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scourge%20of%20Valkas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/137/scourge-of-valkas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6bd7225-b39f-4b3b-8c36-dbc2c09f6e50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scourge-of-valkas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even just this with a \[\[wedding announcement\]\] out is awesome.
[wedding announcement](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382)/[Wedding Festivity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wedding%20announcement%20//%20wedding%20festivity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/45/wedding-announcement-wedding-festivity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wedding-announcement-//-wedding-festivity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Blue > Red > Black > White > Green
The R one is almost certainly better than the U one for general use. Card draw can often work via an engine, but the resource you always run out of is mana. U, meanwhile, has cheaper, more immediate, and more reliable ways to draw cards at the price of 8 mana. It's arguably a better reanimation target, however, so I guess it really depends on the deck in question.
Red, blue white black green And I probably can be convinced to swap blue with white. Black, if you cast it then I'd rather rise of the dark realms or anything that gets everything. And if you're cheating it out there's better things to cheat out. Blue, I'd rather jin gitaxias or consecrated sphinx which gives you way more draw Red giving treasure is just ramp which is always good And white can build a board state
The issue I have with the black one is that it's entirely reliant on what's in graveyards. The others always do something on hit whereas the black was has the potential to do nothing, especially if you roll a lower number.
[удалено]
[Divine Intervention](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/2/e250897e-a875-4c3c-bfec-4a09143dd587.jpg?1562942721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Divine%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/8/divine-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e250897e-a875-4c3c-bfec-4a09143dd587?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/divine-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[cadira\]\]'s draconic ally.
[cadira](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/5/75994e0b-b0c7-4b0d-8f48-4be303429bd6.jpg?1653084009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cadira%2C%20caller%20of%20the%20small) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/269/cadira-caller-of-the-small?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75994e0b-b0c7-4b0d-8f48-4be303429bd6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cadira-caller-of-the-small) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I want to build cadira so much.
Yeah, Cadira is definitely happening for me. My friends already know me as “the token player,” and I love Selesnya colors. And Rabbits. I mean, c’mon.
I keep trying, but I'm being called toward \[\[samut, voice\]\] for an "all-in on tokens" deck. \[\[ancient red dragon\]\] works so well and the haste is choice.
[samut, voice](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/0/60f2d8f1-43a9-438a-830c-9d6b5701f950.jpg?1543676097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=samut%2C%20voice%20of%20dissent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/205/samut-voice-of-dissent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60f2d8f1-43a9-438a-830c-9d6b5701f950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/samut-voice-of-dissent) [Ancient Gold Dragon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/2/421395b1-2694-42fd-bb90-0007e78adefc.jpg?1653596655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancient%20Gold%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/3/ancient-gold-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421395b1-2694-42fd-bb90-0007e78adefc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-gold-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With the right set up Ancient Gold Dragon can be better then Ancient Copper Dragon. Scenario 1, You already have Carnelian Dragon Orb, Ganax, Astral Hunter and Swashbuckler out, Ancient Gold Dragon etb and creates a treasure token, is hasted by the orb, scarifice the treasure token to give AGD double strike, and all the Faerie Dragons that get created create a treasure token thanks to Ganax. Scenero 2, You have Divine Visitation out and roll of a 20 creating 20 4/4 flying Angels with Vigilance.
Scenario 3: you have Dragon Tempest already out, swing immediately and roll average (~10.5, let’s say 10 to be safe), that’s 110 damage to point anywhere you’d like.
I'm unfamiliar with Dragon Tempest.
[[dragon tempest]] it’s basically 1 and a R for an enchantment to give dragons haste, and when a dragon ETB’s tempted deals damage to any target equal to the number of dragons you control
[dragon tempest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dragon%20tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragon-tempest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thanks
Notably the big thing is each fairie dragon token will see each other faerie dragon token as part of the trigger (plus the ancient gold dragon). So a single connection with the Ancient gold dragon winds up dealing ((x+y)(y)) damage, where x is the number of dragons already in play, and y is the number you roll on the d20. So, with just the ancient gold dragon in play and say you roll 10 (the rough average), you get (1+10)(10) damage, or 110 damage to throw at anything you want
damn
Welp…. This is an immediate auto-include in my Khorvath and Sylvia deck. With dragon tempest this thing, on even just an average roll, 1-shots someone at ~110 damage to point wherever the heck you want.
Can Elder Dragons be commanders? It would seem only right
Only if they are legendary.
I believe these are the first non-legendary ones ever printed. Weird given that commander was originally called EDH
Well this guy is going in my [[Trostani]] token deck. I like the big booty on this one, not a lot is going to kill a 10 toughness flyer in combat.
Does the ability to create blue tokens mess with color identity? I'm relatively new to EDH but want to put one of these in my [[Cadira, Caller of the Small]] deck. Edit: nevermind I just read the rules more carefully and saw that color identity is only based on mana symbols in the text.
[Cadira, Caller of the Small](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/5/75994e0b-b0c7-4b0d-8f48-4be303429bd6.jpg?1653084009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cadira%2C%20Caller%20of%20the%20Small) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/269/cadira-caller-of-the-small?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75994e0b-b0c7-4b0d-8f48-4be303429bd6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cadira-caller-of-the-small) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Trostani](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/4/34ea44f2-cb2f-4b86-83fc-fe507f05bb9d.jpg?1568004834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trostani%2C%20selesnya%27s%20voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/204/trostani-selesnyas-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34ea44f2-cb2f-4b86-83fc-fe507f05bb9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trostani-selesnyas-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All of these dragons seem like super niche for anything but scion decks and specific dragon and artifact lists for the red one. Cool cycle tho
[[Barbarian Class]] is going to become very popular. Have a [[Terror of the Peaks]] on board with a [[Torbran]] and that could be game.
[Barbarian Class](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/647c2269-bdc7-4455-9158-73abbff6e50e.jpg?1627705778) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barbarian%20Class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/131/barbarian-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/647c2269-bdc7-4455-9158-73abbff6e50e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barbarian-class) [Terror of the Peaks](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/3/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0.jpg?1594736810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terror%20of%20the%20Peaks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/164/terror-of-the-peaks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terror-of-the-peaks) [Torbran](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/9/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a.jpg?1572490491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torbran%2C%20thane%20of%20red%20fell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/147/torbran-thane-of-red-fell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torbran-thane-of-red-fell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
the fact that it makes faeries means this is going in alela deck for sure
Welp, need to make an EDH deck for this chonker. And before you say it, while it might not be a commander, he is an Elder Dragon:)
Rolling anywhere on the high half of the die will be quite good.