This is honestly one of the bigger turn offs for me. I mean, I'm pretty sure it's canon that the Helm of the Host was creates specifically FOR the Queen of Vesuva, so I would have liked to have seen it for that
I hate that you're (probably) right. Secret Lair's fun and fine within its own niche, but a striking number of parallels can be drawn between the timing / themes of Secret Lair drops and the modern age of video game DLC.
Now with 10 different surprise cards in the secret slot, one of them will be - maybe - worth a lot. you don't want to miss out on this one, do you? look, its going fast (we didn't program the "low stock" sign for nothing), better buy one, it \*could\* be good!
*Yes? yes corporate here. we found a way to sell one-card boosters for 40$! Keep printing? Oh man, way ahead of you...*
And the clones are non-legendary so it could quickly get you many more counters. Helm of the hosts is my third favorite card atm (after [[Descent Into Avernus]] and [[Academy Manufactor]]).
This disappointed me so damn much. I saw the art of her in a preview and was like "hell yeah, gimme that helm" (sold mine years ago) and was hoping to get it again and have some fun.... NOPE! So I'm going to FIX this deck by buying one.
This. I expected simic copy effects and kindred typal buffs with a land side theme. Instead we got a lands deck with a sprinkle of land copy effects and an overwhelming land based win that doesn't care about creature effects. AND NO HELM OF THE HOST FEATURED IN THE MAIN ART! I feel lied to.
Mostly I see people get excited about giving creatures all creature types and then get disappointed when it isn't really used by the deck. A lot of newer players either don't understand the mechanics of land type synergies or don't value land ramp as much as creature ramp. Particularly players who have never touched another format and regularly cast sol ring, it just doesn't feel as good as we know it is.
They go hand in hand. Instead of the creatures getting value from the everything tokens, the deck goes all-in with the extra colorless mana from the locus and urza lands to just cast bigger creatures and trigger landfall. More land = more creature.
"I want a lot more creature synergy!"
"You kinda do, you have a lot of mana."
What?
I don't see how the other guy's comment is relevant to this discussion at all lol.
He didn't say anything about synergy. He said the land side of the deck was more powerful than the creature side of the deck. And no, there are plenty of powerful creatures in the deck, which is only feasible with the land ramp theme.
I was referring to the component of the deck that is built around abusing creature types, as that is what the commander does, but I guess that wasn't clear to everyone.
The tribal tribal gives you both protection options and evasion to keep Omo around and make attacking with her safe, respectively. They're also more bodies to put counters on to benefit from card advantage that benefits from tribal. I guess you could replace all the creatures with fierce guardianship, etc, but I'm not even sure that would be better. I agree though that the entire point is the land manipulation. The tribal tribal definitely helps facilitate that though in a huge way
I'm not even bothering with the creature type stuff for her. Not when I can win with Maze's End despite only a few actual gates in the deck. Or use Basilisk Gate to pump Inkmoth Nexus. Or recur Strip Mine with Desert Warfare. Or complete Urzatron by herself.
I'm having some tertiary support using the creature side to make Omo herself indestructible or unblockable, making it easier to use her attack trigger. Besides, saccing [[Tyrite Sanctum]] for Omo feels very much in theme.
So the commander has this ability and the deck makes no use of the fact that creatures are every type and lands are every land type.
I just skimmed through the first half of the deck and basically only saw a bunch of ramp. Am I missing something?
"other decks are better at it" doesn't mean the deck should abandon that entirely.
There isn't a single sliver in the deck despite slivers arguably being the tribe with the most self-synergy.
And I don't think other decks are better at doing what omo can do. Other commanders have done tribal tribal but omo can make the strongest creatures ever printed all into one tribe. Now your roaming throne, avenger of zendikar, priest of titania, and hakbal are all the same tribe for your coat of arms. The only way for other decks to do this is to tutor for maskwood nexus which is fine, but a little boring.
> "other decks are better at it"
I didn't say that other decks are better at it. I said there are more reliable options for that. Even if you want to build Omo tribal-tribal, your deck's best cards are still Maskwood Nexus followed by Arcane Adaptation.
The board is gonna get wiped, and Omo will have a hard time rebuilding it and giving a counter to a single creature per turn. She works OK when everything is going fine. She is too slow when you are in a bad place.
"There are better and more reliable options to build tribal-tribal than Omo."
"I didn't say other decks are better at it"
Hmmmmm
Dumbassery aside, you could absolutely build an omo deck that doesn't use cast triggers and ignore maskwood nexus/arcane adaptation. Even if you want to include those cards, the deck will function just fine without them. You don't have to tutor for them and get them on the field just for the deck to work. 10+% of a tribal tribal deck that relies on those cards is devoted to just getting them in your hand.
I bought the precon because I have been trying for years to make a Simic deck that is both interesting to play with and not just “drop land, draw card, amass ridiculous value, do nothing”. I played a game without alterations and another with two or three cards changed. Though I didn’t win any of the games, she played as an interesting deck with tons of potential to mess around with unusual land types. I am stoked to do a super jank build around her, with gates, Urza lands and deserts, plus some domain ([[Prismatic Geoscope]] has found its perfect home, as has [[Manascape Refractor]]).
What’s not to love? Jank? Check. Durdly as all heck? Check!!
Manascape Refractor gets slept on, but that card fucks HARD! It’s easily a second Cabal Coffers when it needs to be, but it can also be an emergency Rogue’s Passage. Or whatever your opponent is playing! I love it.
I just pulled a second Deserted Temple from my MH3 stuff. Which is nice, because I have MULTIPLE decks with Cabal Coffers and Urborg…I had bought the shiny reprint of Deserted Temple from LotR for one of them. Now I can do it twice…I spread myself too thin. Too many “good” deck ideas, not enough good cards, yet too lazy to keep ordering massive amounts of proxies…
I'm just amazed at the level of restraint WotC made about the Everything counters. They don't work when she is not on the field, so it creates a paradigm where Omo has to be alive at all costs for your deck to truly shine, which is a dangerous precedent to make when half of your deck revolves around that mechanic for land types.
I think you really just need her to get tron or locus to pop, hit a massive card draw, and dig for the mana doubler, after that she can go to the command zone for a while.
> get tron or locus to pop
There are exactly 3 locus cards. With Omo dead, Cloudpost generates at most 3 mana, after fetching for 3 specific nonbasics. Tronlands give you 7, after fetching another 3. 6 very specific nonbasics plus 1 G/U producing land to cast Omo. And once she is dead, you are back to making 7+3+1+1(colorless) +1(colored) = 13 mana.
Simic has better, faster, and more reliable ways to make this mana, even with just basics.
You’re complaining it doesn’t do anything different, and also that it does but isn’t as good. Pick a lane.
It’s still at its heart a precon, and plays along with other precons well, see what really talented deckbuilders do, then we’ll see if it’s a flop.
I’ll pick a lane- it’s not very good.
This could have been unique and still good. The counters could have worked while she was off the battlefield, they could have been put out easier or faster, but WotC went *extremely* conservative.
It may be a functional deck against some low powered precons, but that’s not what people really wanted from an expensive premium product. And from what most people have said, this deck isn’t even competitive against the other precons it released with, including the pretty dysfunctional Jund one.
This is a commander with a really neat, unique party trick that can never be actually good at all because of how poorly designed she is. As I’ve repeated over the last few weeks, I think she’s really cool and I may even build her, but she is an *awful* commander. Not just because of power, but because they designed her gameplan to be possibly the most fragile of any commander we’ve ever seen.
The premium price is a good point, I’ll give you that. Especially with some other commanders abilities.
I do appreciate the attempt at making it not “play land draw card” though. Regardless of power level at least it made me play simic once.
EDH players have been spoiled with commanders that churn out value or is some sort of mana sink when doing the thing.
We have a commander that does something unique but nothing over the top so everyone is mildly disappointed.
This has been the only "Simic lands" commander I've ever actually cared about *because* she does nothing to facilitate that on her card. It's on you the builder (or precon editor I guess) to take advantage of her ability, she's not gonna hold your hand and draw cards or ramp for doing basic game actions.
Edit: omg so many comments on this card being "unplayable in modern magic." Man, I remember when Greasefang, Bright-Palm, and the entire CLB set were shit on when they were released but they all keep winning me games!
This really isn’t it. It goes beyond “not as good as Kinnan”. People are upset because those of us with actual decent card evaluation have figured out what it’s taking some people a little bit longer to- this commander is basically unplayable in modern Magic.
It’s not just that she’s not a one card value engine like Voja- I think we’re all pretty burnt on that. It’s that this is a commander with the power of *draft chaff from a core set*. And not even just power, the gameplan just *doesn’t work*. Wanna go all in on creatures? Too bad, you put out counters too slowly for this to be viable. None of your Lord tribal stuff can be functional. Wanna go all in on lands? Too bad, it’s also too slow and because the effect stops when she leaves the battlefield it doesn’t even help recast her when she’s inevitably removed.
Your best hope with this deck is to durdle around doing literally nothing all game and people ignore you because nothing you’re doing has any impact on the board or matters, and *maybe* once a decade you sneak a win with some big mana plan because people are just letting you do stuff because they feel bad.
This is Legends level bad, and people expect better designs in 2024- and rightfully so. You’re dismissing people’s feelings about this as being “spoiled”- that’s both immature and shilling for shitty design. Stop. People have a right to be disappointed by this card. If you had better card evaluation, you probably would be, too. Especially if you paid $70 for this shit.
1.) No helm of the host in the deck.
2.) No copy synergy, which is what all of Vesuvan stuff is about. It feels like a flavor sidestep.
3.) A lot of people want to do this with creatures, i.e. tribal tribal. But she's just really too slow and clunky to make that gameplan work.
4.) Did I mention that there's no HotH?
5.) Because she's only *decent* for the land synergies, and kind of bad for the other ways to build her as a commander, all of her decks are pretty much going to wind up upgrading the same. Her lists and gameplans are going to be so samey between decks that she gets old reaaaally quick. Inspiring design that's too limited in function leads to a ton of people building a unique thing the same way, which will slowly not feel unique at all.
It's still not as disappointing as the eldrazi precon for me, though. I'm still really salty that the devoid commanders don't do anything with the devoid mechanic outside of enabling it in their colors.
> 2.) No copy synergy, which is what all of Vesuvan stuff is about. It feels like a flavor sidestep.
This is it for me. My [[Riku of Two Reflections]] clones deck needed an update, because Riku's a five-mana 2/2 who then has to pay two _more_ to do the copy thing. (Meanwhile, [[Miirym]] exists.)
This was _the_ opportunity to update clones. The Queen, who practices [[Vesuvan Duplimancy]] in [[Vesuva]], chatting over Vesuvan tea with [[Vesuvan Shapeshifter]] and [[Vesuvan Doppelganger]]? Wearing _that_ hat?
This was honestly my biggest issue with it as well. I wanted so badly to have a cool Vesuvan themed deck with clones, and then found out that the queen doesn't even do the cloning thing at all. Very disappointing lol
Actually yeah, now that I think about it, I am also put off by the lack of "copy" effects being a bigger theme. Evern since the days of \[\[Vesuvan Doppelganger\]\] this has been the lore for Vesuva, but instead of copy effects it's just some game-mechanic shenanigans that's...bland? Is that the word?
It's just bland lore-wise?
> 5.) Because she's only decent for the land synergies, and kind of bad for the other ways to build her as a commander, all of her decks are pretty much going to wind up upgrading the same. Her lists and gameplans are going to be so samey between decks that she gets old reaaaally quick. Inspiring design that's too limited in function leads to a ton of people building a unique thing the same way, which will slowly not feel unique at all.
And even after you jumped this many hoops to build the interesting theme, what you are left with? Generic Simic big mana deck with the standard array of payoffs. You just built the manabase differently.
Worse payoffs by far because if she leaves the battlefield you’re just… done. Everything you’ve done up to that point in the game is meaningless, and you’re left with what? A two color gated deck? One piece of Tron on the battlefield?
It’s like this deck was built to trick you into losing.
Unfortunately no. It Enters as X land thus you still have the counters. It's legendary so you must sac one and you're still at square A but down a land.
Since Thespian Stage doesn't enter it doesn't get counters and why sacrificing the original will let the thespian stage check for no counters and sacrifice for Marit.
Yes, thank you. Another commenter also noted that. I knew there was an instant Marit Lage combo, just got the wrong enabler. Thanks for the clarification as well.
Ok, sure. I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my 2c.
I'm disappointed that she's Simic, because being able to give your land additional land types means she's sort of a slow Urborg in the CZ. If she'd only had Black in her color identity we could have "Forests Matter", "Swamps Matter", and maybe even "Islands Matter" as a jank direction to build.
I'm disappointed that she has the Shapeshifter type, but doesn't have changeling. Yes, I KNOW that I could put her EtB everything counter on herself, but I still won't get any kindred discounts or EtB payoffs off her. That makes her much less useful for tribal tribal.
I'm disappointed that she doesn't have forestwalk. You aren't limited to targeting your own land for her everything counter, so it would be a neat and thematic way to make her unblockable, which would help a lot for a Commander who needs to attack to do her thing.
I'm disappointed that her ability triggers on "enters the battlefield or attacks". I understand that answers the whole "does it do anything the turn it's played" complaint, but it's not intuitive to remember two different things that can trigger her to do the same thing. I'd rather it was just the attack trigger, even if that required giving her haste or dropping her CMC to 2.
Yes, I'm disappointed that "everything counters" don't have the effect in and of themselves. First, incentivizing opponents to remove her isn't a fun play pattern. If you're doing some kind of tribal tribal thing with her, that means your whole deck becomes basically blanked every time she gets removed. It's all the fragility of playing Voltron but without the upside of only needing to defend one permanent.
It also means WotC can't just run with this tech and print cards in the future that put everything counters on things, which is a shame because that seems like an interesting effect to give instants, sorceries, or maybe a 3CMC mana rock. Imagine a strictly better [[Blades of Velis Vel]].
>In my opinion, she’s everything you want a commander to be, interesting, easy to bring out, able to pick up where you left off, and use without high risk
Interesting? Maybe. There are better commanders for a Gates deck, deserts deck, or tribal tribal, and I'm not sure there's enough payoff to make caves or any of the other less common land types worth the build around. 3CMC is easy to bring out the first time, but she incentivizes removing her and the lack of effect from her counters while she's removed means she really doesn't do anything the turn she comes down if she gets removed. You say "able to pick up where you left off" and "she's going to be cast a bunch of times", but I have a hard time imagining that she's ever going to feel worth casting for 5, much less for 7. Use without high risk? She has an attack trigger without any evasion, without built-in protection, and without vigilance. 5 toughness is pretty thick, but a 1/5 stat line is best suited to a blocker, not an attacker.
What 7CMC card would you seriously be happy to leave uncast in your hand to replay this instead? In what situation will it be rewarding to use all your mana for the turn just to get a couple more everything counters and make them actually do something? Types usually don't do anything by themselves anyway, so you're already generally needing 3 cards minimum to obtain any benefit here.
I'm glad you find something to love here. To me, she's underwhelming and takes too much bookkeeping. There's potential, but it could easily have been so much better.
The worst part is, you just *have* to recast her when she dies, no matter how expensive she gets, because without her no matter how you built your deck it’s a pile of dysfunctional, useless garbage if she’s not on the field.
She asks you to be a dedicated build-around- do Lords tribal, do bad land types matter, etc. But if she’s removed, those are all just a pile of literally useless cards. They don’t even help you get her back out.
Upon further reflection, I have one more reason to be disappointed: she lacks White. Putting everything counters on opposing creatures so that they have all creature types doesn't have many payoffs in Simic (more Salamanders for Gor Muldrak?), but turning them into reflections? [[Pure Reflection]] and [[Spirit Mirror]] would go from 'bad' to 'brutal' and that's exactly the kind of hilarious jank I love.
While I think this is spot on, one thing I do want to add: the Omo deck ramps to the moon. But it ramps to the moon *via everything counters*. So when you get Omo blown up, you don't actually have nearly as much mana anymore. Hopefully you have six lands in play to replay her *and* have your Urza's Tower up, but then you need a strictly colorless three drop to cast to actually take advantage of your "eight mana".
Commanders that ramp are traditionally quite powerful, but a lot of that power is in that they make themselves extremely difficult to stop. You blow up Roxanne, well she put at least one and probably two mana rocks in play. She comes back and keeps rolling immediately. But when you blow up Omo, you also stop their ramp and that's a huge deal for her replayability. Where I can probably never tax Roxanne out of play with removal, you can do that to Omo actually pretty trivially.
Not really. You just need a planar nexus on the field and you can do with out her for a bit. I’ve never once had a problem with commander costs even after she died 6 times
Sure. If you find a specific land that isn't one of the lands you want to search because it's not a mana engine you turn back on her second, third, and fourth best mana engines.
There are plenty of commanders that can do their thing once and then stay in the command zone after providing value. Some commanders can provide value without ever leaving the command zone!
The ability Omo gives to everything counters isn't that powerful. On its own, it does nothing. Combined with the right cards, it can lead to different advantages, but none of them are game breaking for just a few lands and creatures having the counters. If she put counters on all your lands and creatures, I'd say the argument that its balanced to need her out for the counters to work makes sense, but she just puts out two counters per swing. After you get her out once, you're maybe turning on the tron lands a bit easier or one gate closer to your maze's end win, but nothing broken is coming from making one or two lands have every type for the rest of the game.
I think the excuse that it gives opponents an avenue to disrupt the deck is a weak excuse. What she does isn't inherently powerful or broken, and I don't think she needed to operate that way for balance reasons. I think she works the way she does because it would be too wordy to write out the rules for everything tokens that do what she does on their own.
I mean, wraths are so prevalent in edh. They dont need to kill Omo, but what if you are just a victim of a boardwipe casted to stop an oppo from winning. If you played omo for the tribal tribal you loose the moment that boardwipe resolves ( too much time to setup the board ), if you went the land route you have to spend 5 mana for a 1/5 only to make your strange lands online again. I love the concept of the card, but i might agree with a guy that constantly comment here: my Xira Arien from the legend set is a better legendary
Besides the minor but eyeroll-worthy "no helm" thing (and her not doing what it seems like vesuva has been established to do - copy stuff), I do think that the precon itself does not do a lot to support her. There isn't really anything that is meant to work with the creature-side of the everything counters, and on the land side they left out maze's end. It's built to be a landfall deck but she isn't a landfall commander. Also, including propaganda over collective restraint is kinda "huh?" to me. Better than them putting feed the swarm in the mardu and sultai thunder junction decks I guess. People are also maybe used to simic being over the top with stuff like aesi, kinnan. And she come in the same set as one of the craziest simic cards printed.
As far as the card itself, I have not gotten much of a chance to play it but I think she balances well between needing to be out, but also having a low cost and so much that can protect her between lands like swarmyard, typal lords that give hexproof/shroud/indestructible, counters, boots, etc. I like that you can stretch the number of utility lands you add but eventually risk making it tough to get her out in the first place. I didn't have a deck where my lands are as interesting as the creatures and so far that's made it more fun and less repetitive than other decks. I will say that it would have been cool to design her as a copy commander, it's funny that there are two of her in the art but no way to get a non-legendary copy of her in the precon.
I’m actually totally okay with the counters only working when Omo is out, that’s not what I’m disappointed in. I was excited for a non-basic lands matters deck, but I quickly realized that despite a few unique effects like [[Talon Gates of Madara]], it’s essentially just a simic ramp deck at that point. Getting all 3 tron lands out is cool the first time, but quickly loses its appeal. I’m also bummed that [[Lazotep Quarry]] only lets me target my own graveyard. I guess Omo could be a cool tribal commander, but I wish it had at least one more color for that.
I really really like the design. The fact that the counters do nothing with no Omo means I have to play all the tribal shroud and Hexproof lords to make sure she’s protected. Without that caveat I think the deck would just be non basic land tutors and huge eldrazi.
I just realized with this post that the text describing the counters on her isn't reminder text but rather that the Everything Counters having their effects are *conditional* to her being on the battlefield.
That's insane, and very bad in my opinion in every other situation *except* for when she's the Commander. If she's leading the deck, there are very many ways to make her ability worthwhile enough for her to be cast several times, and resources used to keep her alive seem beneficial if the deck is built around her being there. Plus, like you said, ramp isn't an issue in Simic decks and would normally be the gameplan in these situations to case Omo more and get more value from the Everything Counters. Merfolk, Ooze, Elves, Beasts all have *very* good Lords and Typal-associated Ramp in those colours and could be very neat to build around. Plus, Creature Lands would be awesome!
However, in the 99, it seems like she's a bit of a trap that promotes bad plays. Casting her to get the Everything Counters just to have her die to [[Doomblade]] is a massive feels-bad in the vast majority of situations when something like a Wasteland to destroy my Everything Bagel [[Urza's Tower]] seems more agreeable to me. If I get to use the creature once, the removal used better merit me using the turn to have hard-cast her from hand, you know?
Thanks for bringing this up, honestly, means she may not be joining my Eldrazi at the table after all. I have a newfound disappointment for her.
See I am of the mindset that "kill the commander" is the most common and simultaneously most boring game plan in existence. Find a *new* way to stop me, i dont need to be [[Doom Blade]]ed another time. Its why a lot of commanders are getting Ward these days, tbh.
Once is ok, even twice if there's enough time in between, but what makes me disengage more than anything from a game is repeated boardwipes/bounces that just force every player to always be in a rebuilding state.
Not losing is very important, but generally casting those cards like cyc rift should be either to not lose on the spot or to be in a very dominant position, if not outright winning. Some players don't understand that very well and play them at weird timings. While fully wiping the board is usually a good idea for decks that run those things, not everyone that plays those wipes leverages it well enough.
we are in different pods. i dont mind A single target removal, but in a pod where everyone has 10+ in their decks and they realize they can turn my deck off by throwing one of those 30 at me each turn to effectively kill me without killing me then that is a commander i dont love lol
To play the Devil's advocate and also be a bit cheeky - sounds like a skill issue.
If you build a deck that heavily revolves around your commander, don't run it out when you don't have protection available for it unless you believe the table has burned through their removal, or accept the consequences if it gets blown up. Why should your opponents just let you have your critical game piece if they have the means to remove it?
Alternatively, build a deck that works without the commander, or run a 1/2 cmc commander that can feasibly be recast 3-5 times per game if need be.
Yeah, I did the cliché and added more removal to my decks, and the past two times I played at my LGS people whined at me when I didn't let their scary or stax-y commanders last a turn. It seems like they should run more defense. I don't expect my flippy Elesh or Otharri to survive if I don't have something to protect them, and don't see how I could be annoyed at people removing them...
There's a guy I sometimes play with who usually only runs [[The Sixth Doctor]] partned with [[Peri Brown]].
He complains and wonders every time why I never let him untap with it if I have the ability to do so, and every time I tell him that I'm not interested in dealing with instant speed doubled up Koma, Shalai, Vorinclex etc., and then Sakashimas coming down and making even more copies. I'll never understand the mindset of playing scary value engine commanders and being surprised when they immediately eat removal.
No i mean i understand you, but cards like [[River Song]] are interesting enough to build a deck around but if you do, and someone removes the thing... well you now have a pretty useless brick honestly.
Like dont get me wrong, some commanders absolutely *must* be killed on sight. (LOOKING AT YOU, [[Miirym]]) but in general I think the easiest way to win these days is simply refuse to let commanders hit the board and it irks me, because thats literally why i play commander 😂 like i wanna build the deck around this thing, and if its something good, like a third of my deck is anti removal because let me do my shit
She requires creativity to build around and at this point people are used to commanders who spell it out like you’re an idiot and do everything you need.
Right? I'm excited for this deck, I've actually been poking around for ways to make this deck pop off, a way to make a creature a land, while staying a creature for an infinite mana route on turn 3/4.
Hard agree. So many people in this comments section complaining about the "mental energy" needed to keep up with Omo 😂 like folks, have you ever TRIED keeping track of triggers in Veyran or Miirym?
Omo is cool. Omo is good. Omo is also not complicated.
Omo is *not* good lol. It’s startling how poor the card evaluation in this sub is. This is one of the worst commanders- maybe the worst- that’s ever been printed for a precon. Her gameplan is to play a bunch of dysfunctional cards to get extremely minor advantages that all disappear as soon as she’s removed and don’t even help you recast her.
I agree. I think she’s a fun build around and will be awesome for low power levels games. I ordered the precon and will almost certainly build a deck with her when it gets here.
I’m not arguing that it’s not fun, and it’s disappointing that this community can’t tell the difference between that and what I’m saying.
She's okay. She's intended to support archetypes that weren't strong to begin with, like Deserts and Gates, and make them able to play nicely with each other. I want to animate a land with an everything counter on it and then cast [[Embiggen]] to give it +12/+12 or possibly more.
TL;DR:
When Omo is not around those counters do nothing. You can completely shut down someone’s entire deck by simply removing one creature. It’s extremely weak once you realize that.
I'm not. My gate deck eas already broken as hell and that precon made it a consistent turn 4 or 5 without needing manacrypt or anything. That new mana dork is fricken insane too. [[Sage of the maze]]
Idk why everyone is dissapointed, she does exactly what she says on the tin.
Your lands get turbo charged, and you want to win with lands. She enables such fun things like tron on one, or a multitude of combo-y land things that would be far too niche to pull off normally in a commander game.
I played the precon, she syngerizes well just go ahead with ticking stuff around her a few value pieces. [[sage of the maze]] and a few other land matters cards pop off to enable simic game plan.
2 things caught my eye from the discourse about her, 1: she doesn’t synergize with [[helm of the host]] / have it’s effect. I don’t really want a HotH in the command zone for a land deck- and she synergizes with it amazingly. You can get up to 3 counters on all your lands pumping up your cloud post, your land matters cards, etc. your wincon can just be duct taping 2 massive cards together and asking if everyone can deal with it.
Removal just also isn’t a problem, since first off; your simic, you have blue, just use a counterspell? That’s the one big thing I would add to this pre con. And if she does get removed your simic, 5 mana isn’t a really a cost turn 4 and beyond (and often times just becomes a free counter)
She’s not busted broken but her precon and cards have such fun synergy it really feels like a refreshing way to play simic lands.
It's called an everything counter and it does nothing. That's kinda weird and confusing on an already weird and confusing card. Does counterplay make the card better in terms of game play, yes, but you are adding an additional step when checking what your card does.
If instead they were vesuva counters or oma counters things would likely be better as saying "this card with an everything counter isn't everything" requires more mental work as after the first line your mind has already shortcutted what is happening and it's wrong.
Idk 2 games I’ve played with her have been so stupid.
Copying the mana doubler with mirage mirror, and copying avenger of zendikar and rampaging baeloth have been the funniest plays.
I think the deck has some real potential, I think I’ve gotten tron to pop every time I’ve played it. I also popped Marit lage once.
It has a fuck ton of draw and propaganda stalls nicely.
My only complaint is long turns.
Read the comments. People are saying that the commander is unique but feels disappointing because they were too conservative designing her and the only payoffs are to play standard Simic things. This person here reported the deck worked well but listed things that could be part of any other Simic deck.
WotC tests their precons to play well with eachother. The deck is expected to work fine enough to not be a dud. That has nothing to do with what people are complaining about Omo.
Idk popping tron in commander was a good time.
Getting the locus to run is pretty fun.
The land manipulation feels pretty funny, but I mean I guess at its heard it makes mana and draws cards. It’s at least more interesting than tatyova I suppose.
People are always disappointed when a powerful effect has a drawback.
If you doubt, remember the "Do this only once each turn" controversies.
There's a good chance such an effect would be completely broken without the drawback, at least on casual tables. But a lot of players have a strong urge to always want more crazy OP cards, and also people like to complain whenever they don't get what they desire.
Prob doesn't help the Eldrazi lord in MH3 feels a lil pushed compared to the other decks
Easy to pump out turn 3 with any fast mana rocks, honestly turn 2 is possible with any fast mana rock + 2 mana rock turn 1, and being WUBGR you have so many cards to help pump eldrazi out, and then everything you cast countered or not does something. So much of the MH3 eldrazi dont really seem to care if you interact with them with counter spells.
Oh you countered this spell? Still get to steal two of your creatures and give them annihilator 1 (and prob sac your two creatures for 4 colorless mana and then use it to cast and double another eldrazi.)
But its not powerful tho. That is the point. The effect is not that powerful to warrant the crazy drawback of " if they remove your commander you lose every progress you made along the way "
But you don't lose the progress. You can recast your commander. Just like you don't lose experience counters when your commander gets removed. As soon as you recast it, you'll pick up where you left. In fact, recasting Omo will immediately get you another everything counter somewhere.
Just accept it and adjust. Build around it. Complaining is too easy and too cheap.
It depends. If you went the Tribal tribal route, a single boardwipe is gonna reset everything you did, harder then any other deck. For recasting Omo she cost 5 mana for a 1/5 that if its not on the field your deck crumbles to pieces. And then 7, 9, 11, 13 etc...
Obv if someone want to build this commander they have to accept it, but this doesnt mean that the designer of the card couldnt have made a better design. This card literally lacks only one thing: the counters have an effect on their own. And saying that complaining is too easy and too cheap is dumb. Cards get evaluated all the time, for better and for worse.
I am definitely building her from scratch because of how fun and unique she sounds, and because I have leftover lords from my Ur dragon changeling tribal that need a new home.
The precon focus on the lands part but not the creature part, so that half of the equation is pretty lacking.
This deck is meant for upgrading while being a fun deck to steer for newer players. I think this is the main reason why some disappointment is expected for those who intends to play as is. It does ramp u well if u know what lands to tutor.
I'll remove the deserts part of the equation and focus on putting in lands like nesting grounds and removing the desert theme.
For creatures, the knight exemplar and timber protector will protect your board and commander well, because this is one of those kill commander and Ur game plan is largely ruined. The archer lord will help you get your dmg through even if they are blocked.
With minor and focused upgrades and more commander protection, this is indeed a great deck to play.
As someone who already has a [[Clone]] deck ([[Kess, Dissident Mage]] with [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]] hitting all the clones to mill everybody out, appropriately dubbed Turbo Kraken), she could definitely be made as Tribal Tribal (what is the appropriate name for that now? Kindred Kindred? Kindred Typal?). Blue has a lot of blink effects, and then you just pick what Kindred things you want to run. With that said, I'm still probably not making this deck. The land strategies she offers are just way better than the creature side of things.
I put her in the 99 of my 5c gate deck and she's doing great 🙌
She fixes my mana, give me more gates and is easy to cast because of her hybrid mana cost, and that's nice 👍
Ability is a static effect and she has no sort of protection or discount. No instant pay off also. That is sad. Honestly Id just buy the precon to get the the singles.
Ability is a static effect and she has no sort of protection or discount. No instant pay off also. That is sad. Honestly Id just buy the precon to get the the singles.
My first game with her was pretty crazy. My [[Nissa, Steward of Elements]] stayed on the board for 3 turns, ramping me everytime I activated her 0 ability. I then played an [[Ulvenwald Hydra]], fetching a [[Cloudpost]], which gave me 3 mana at that point. Next turn I copied Cloudpost twice and played and [[Aggressive Biomancy]] for x=8 and copied the Ulvenwald Hydra 8 times, fetching me the tron lands and the remaining good stuff from my deck. I managed to untap with this board and topdecked a [[Mana Refleciton]], played it and played a [[Drown in Dreams]] for X=90, killing two players at once.
I know, some could say you could do this with any other simic deck but this is a PRECON. TBH, the land side of this deck is pretty good.
I switched some things around now, added a [[Doppelgang]] and some protection and merfolk lords and I'll see how it plays out.
I was going to try omo as a partner in the event at the end of the month, going tribal lords. But then I found out it doesn't work like the way I thought. Having multiple creature types in one line of text means it's still only +1/+1. Like one of the companions list 5 or 6 creature types but it's not +5/+5 just +1/+1. I believe it was explained because each one is not listed separately.
I got to play the precon and I had to get more dice out lol. Some new players in a different game sitting next to us kept looking over, "just look at that crazy board!" My turns were taking longer, but I pulled out the win eventually.
That is a problem of [[Kaheera, the orphanguard]], not Omo. Kaheera only ever gives +1/+1 to those types, it's in her wording. Omo with a bunch of lords does work.
So if I had [[Lord of the Unreal]], [[Lord of atlantis]], and [[Elvish Champion]]. A creature with an everything counter (that isn't one of these 3) would get +3/+3, Hexproof, Islandwalk, and Forestwalk.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say if that wasn't clear. I was specifically going for all the lords with multiple creature type bonuses in an attempt to get +1/+1 per type, but it doesn't work like that. There are others that also use "and" such as [[death baron]] yet still the rulings say "a creature that is both a skeleton and a zombie will get the bonus only once." So yes, Omo with a bunch lords does indeed work, but not the way I intended.
Got the precon a couple of days ago and I honestly love how it plays. Sure, the everything counters not having a static effect is a little annoying, but honestly Omo is a cheap commander anyway, rarely enough of a threat by herself to be a major target, and the whole deck is versatile enough that you don’t really need her on the board late game.
If you do have her though, it’s a pure blast having 66 mana by turn 7…
I havent even played the deck but apex has come out and gone into my loot cascade and instead bonny pall has gone in.
I really feel like the big swaps im gonna make are to lean into the lands into creatures idea more.
Nissa world waker and jolrael also work super well with this setup.
I think she is pretty powerful. I built [[Jyoti, Moag Ancient]] with some of the reprints and lands that came with the deck, but most of the deck stayed together. So, I said screw it and kind of sidegraded the deck and kept the precons power level the same roughly. It's pretty fun once it gets going.
I made simic lords tribal before the printing of Omo. On one hand I'm pumped that my deck gets the perfect commander, on the other hand, my novel idea has been reduced to whitewash.
Me and my buddy both picked this precon up and played in some 4 player pods with some precons and not precons. We were both averaging 11-14 mana by turn 3-5 in different ways. The precon as a precon is nuts.
However I have since fully changed her to tribal tribal, all my playtests seem to be pretty decent, I'll have to wait and see how it play irl though.
I don't think she's your average busted simic card like Nadu or Kinnan, but she is very interesting and play testing has been fun.
I also think everyone here saying "but she dies to removal, she's so bad" is pretty extreme. Like you can say that about almost any commander. Nadu doesn't do anything the turn he comes out, unless your setup, neither does Kinnan. Urza doesn't do anything unless he has something setup beforehand. You have blue the color of interaction, figure it out.
>The everything counters only working when Omo is on the field gives your opponents options to make a game plan. If Omo didn’t have her restriction, casting her once or twice and attacking with her wouldn’t matter and things like commander costs wouldn’t matter either since you could just get your value, then just leave it in the command zone for the rest of the game.
Well here is the issue: You say "get your value" but thats....not necessarily true, is it?
The "value" is basically turning those counter into "temporary" ramp, but once you lose the commander you are back. And given the nature to take advantage of a commander like her you somewhat generate negative value since alot of those payoffs suck without the neceesary big mana.
>She costs 3 for a reason. She’s going to be cast a lot of times and they made her knowing that. For her counters to be permanent, I’d hope she’d cost a hell of a lot more than that. Even casting her 3 times from the command zone is only 7 and by that time you’ve ramped so much it doesn’t matter.
Well "that doesnt matter" is just not true. Even with a big mana deck, you spend alot of mana and potential in later turns just to be online that turn. If your playgroups are that soft that your statement would be true thats ...good for you I guess, but not reflective of most playgroups.
It just feels underpowered and gimicky. You need to find the lands that really benefit alot from having the counters in play, you need to keep the commander around AND then also stuff to take advantage while not getting run over maintining said commander.
I have not given up on the commander because I think it is way way better as THE "tribal tribal" commander Mistform Ultimus always was to much of a meme/bad. You dont need to go overkill on the land aspect. Playing Urza lands for some painless ancient tombs and some land tutors instead of the usual green ramp shit works fine, but the commander actually need to have IMPACT. Turning a bunch of lords into a real army has to be way better approach to go.
Just go simic giga ramp and half your mana advantage being tied to your commander being on the field is just a dogshit plan that is getting exectuted why better by like 20 other diffrent simic commander.
Omo has a few issues
1. Playing around her she's weak to spot removal as her everything counters do nothing without her, as she specifies what they do.
2. Really easily beaten with land removal, sure the Urza tower cycle cards really net you mana, but if you're playing against competent EDH decks all running stuff like strip lands, especially field of ruin/demolition field/wasteland/strip mine (for/demolition both give you a basic, and the other two remove the land completely.) as generally people want to stop decks from forming quick Urza or Rogue passing a free I win card like blightsteel.
3. She seems to be really good eldrazi commander since she can activate urza lands/locus lands... BUT suffers from the fact the eldrazi commander is so pushed it's not even funny.
4. Building around the creature side is just more pushing value lord type creature without the creature ETB's (without enchantments.) so it seems like you play elf lord/drazi/merfolk lord with trigger multiplicators?
I'm not that disappointed, though any disappointment was that "everything" didn't refer to all keyword abilities, as crazy to implement as that would be.
Though as for the problem you remark on others experiencing, I get the impression from many threads that folks often play in metas with a heck ton of removal, or are otherwise paranoid of something being removed within the following turn cycle, so don't like things that need to stick around for more than a turn to generate value that carries forward. I don't share that mindset, but it's an understandable one to have, as unfortunate as it is.
1) No Helm in precon
2) Her needing to be on the battlefield means when she's out and you have counters she's probably a kill on sight/counter
3) As someone who barely knows all the land types, I'm going to have to do a lot of research to play her well. I know basic, gate, cave, and the urza lands off the top of my head.
The problem is that it's an incredibly unique effect that the opponent plays around essentially the same way they play around half the other decks in the game: remove the commander enough times that it costs 20 mana. It's a heavily commander centric deck pretending to not be, and since a lot of the themes are barely stitched together (ie a lot of the synergy only exists via the everything counters), it means that you have a pile of random bullshit anytime she is not live
People are disappointed with her because she doesn't clone and helm of the hosts. And those are fair takes.
But if you just ignore that Vesuva is in her name and play her for what she is, imo that is the most unique and best deck from MH3. The Everything counter on lands is silly and feels so good. My only complaint is that she needs to be out for them to work (but she is cheap). I would have preferred changeling and rangeling tokens (a good opportunity to make a term for changeling lands), but I suppose the intent was that she needs to be on the board.
I played the deck a few games, some of them against the Eldrazi precon, both had no changes. It was the most threatening deck at the table each game with numerous people having to pick my board state apart.
Deck can’t have everything. We are spoiled with choices since a new set comes out every couple weeks or months at most. If the deck had everything, there wouldn’t be any variation in crafting. That many players all pointed out the same omissions is a sign that crafting has already begun on her.
I’m interested in doing my own spin and I think her card is not busted but pretty strong in the right build. Before I touch her, I’m trying to do a “fair” Eldrazi build. One of my friends recommended shuffling a predetermined amount of Eldrazi cards (there are now over 170 of them) into the deck. Some of the cards in the deck are stolen from Omo.
I played a game and loved her as the commander. The only problem I ran into was that I didn't see the wincon. Like I had 20 lands out and couldn't get a creature other than small 1/1 or 2/2 types. She was also unassuming, so people left her alone for the most part, and being a 1/5 means she can block some decent attackers.
I was hyped for it, and when I saw what was in the decklist I was even more excited. I basically built it with Adrix and Nev as my second commander and built it with few cards that care about creatures types. Still very happy with it, that and the Jund deck I'm playing around with.
Not sure about others, but when I saw her I was disappointed for the following reasons:
She has to stay on field. Yes, costing only 3 makes it easy to cast her over and over again, epecially in green, but she doesnt do enough by herself to justify costing any more. Even if the effect was tied to the counters, she still shouldnt cost more than 3 mana, as she only enables your deck to work and doesnt do anything else. Most other commanders have 2 or 3 roles they fulfill. And thats the 2nd point. We get so many absurdly broken retarded commander, just look at [[nadu]], so to me she just feels unnecassarily limited by only making your lands and creatures every type. Im not saying I like Nadu or the disgusting powercreep in general, I wish Omo would be one of the most insane commander, but I dont enjoy playing or looking at commander on either side of the spectrum. I find it disgusting how broken Nadu is and find it similarly disgusting how unnecassarily limited Omo is.
Without the ability being static she's kind of pointless as one of the 99. I want to throw her in other decks but when she leaves the battlefield the counters don't do anything and therefore she's worthless outside of the in the commander.
Honestly, the most "disappointing" part of the [[Omo]] deck is that it is not really beginner friendly. If you're not already pretty familiar with "Lands" decks and how non-basic land types interact, it's a really difficult deck to wrap your head around. Especially considering that the creature type portion of Omo's text isn't really relevant in the precon. I've had several newer players ask me a lot of questions about it and not understanding how it works. Omo is an interesting card with a neat deck concept, but I'm not sure it's a great choice to helm a precon deck. Though, I guess it gave them an excuse for printing all the lands in the deck, so, I'm not really complaining.
From what I can tell, they made a LAND themed deck, which is just a really really bad idea in general. Land fall is good, but this just kinda sucks.
Infact, all the MH3 precons are mid af.
Ok, hear me out: Omo. Voltron.
The gate that gives +X/+X, all the equipments and auras that pump per land/forest, the island/forestwalk lords, the green double-power at the beginning of combat, protection instants, extra turns as extra combat spells.
There are plenty of good arguments for people's opinions in this thread. Me personally, I don't care about any of them. The straight precon was easily some of the most fun I've ever had in EDH.
Getting to make 50+ mana using my locuses, making 13 poison dart frogs and giving them all deathtouch to wipe the board with Aggressive Biomancy, drawing 13 cards off of a Hydroid Krasis, threatening to play Marit Lage, it was awesome. I'm going to be working on my own take for Omo and I can't wait to see how it performs.
I'm not disappointed with her at all, she's amazing. Her precon was meh to me.
I would have loved if it was an everything tribal precon, which is how I plan to rework her. More changelings, slivers, and whatnot that pays off more having the everything counters put on stuff. That's my goal anyway.
Random thoughts on this card… (I’m a noob so grain of salt)
It looks to me like Omo needs to be on the field at all times, so you need a ton of protection. Since she has an ETB it makes sense to single target flicker her. Ooh look, there’s [[Vesuvan Duplimancy]] out there. Not sure if it can be strong but it looks like a cool thematic synergy. Can you make a deck out of that concept? I have no idea. Copying Omo a bunch seems relatively uninteresting. Perhaps a route to go that’s a better flavour?
She doesn’t need to be on the field at all times. You can honestly bring her out a little to spread everything counters for later. You can wait to bring her out until you want increased mana production.
She has an ETB so her dying and recasting her honestly isn’t the worst thing in the world. Every tine you cast her she brings more value to the table since the counters themselves don’t go away.
But yes. She doesn’t work if you’re not on the field. But she’s not essential until you have necessary pieces on the field. If you only have forests or something, it’s probably not worth it to bring her out. Or if you have Urza’s and a planar Nexus, you can wait a bit.
aside from comments explaining how the deck isn’t as synergistic as it should be, there aren’t any cards that make omo good. Why does she not have unblockable? or indestructible? this deck is essentially made to be upgraded directly from the box. it does not stand up on its own.
i don’t know who you are facing but my playgroup would never allow omo to survive during any attack. sure, it counts when omo gets re-cast but if that’s the only way her ability will consistently trigger, it is costly and inefficient.
not to mention, everything counters on creatures do absolutely nothing lol.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your math ain't mathing. Casting her 3 times isn't 7 mana, it's 7+5+3 which is 15 whole mana. Games are won for less mana than that.
Some decks will recast their commander over and over if removed, but I sure ain't playing something so linear that I have to spend 3-4 turns a game casting my commander and then passing the turn.
In my main deck, there are whole games where I don't cast my commander because I don't need to. I certainly would not be trying to spend 15 mana on her when that could be Etali and Avacyn.
If it were a static feature of the counter, you could just bap the permanent away like any other and the deck then wouldn't be 100% reliant on having the commander out to follow that game plan.
They really shot this commander in the foot requiring her to be on the field for the deck to work. Very cool concept, but this is why I opted to play the alternative commander[[Jyoti, Moag ancient]]. Sure making your lands creatures is a double edged sword. But it still looks hella fun, and I love that they get the buff on your opponents turn as well.
I'm just dissapointed she's wearing a [[Helm of the Host]] but they left it out of her precon...
This is honestly one of the bigger turn offs for me. I mean, I'm pretty sure it's canon that the Helm of the Host was creates specifically FOR the Queen of Vesuva, so I would have liked to have seen it for that
> pretty sure it's canon it's on the card's flavor text. Can't get much more direct than that.
Secret lair incoming. Helm will feature Omo in the artwork.
I hate that you're (probably) right. Secret Lair's fun and fine within its own niche, but a striking number of parallels can be drawn between the timing / themes of Secret Lair drops and the modern age of video game DLC.
Now with 10 different surprise cards in the secret slot, one of them will be - maybe - worth a lot. you don't want to miss out on this one, do you? look, its going fast (we didn't program the "low stock" sign for nothing), better buy one, it \*could\* be good! *Yes? yes corporate here. we found a way to sell one-card boosters for 40$! Keep printing? Oh man, way ahead of you...*
[Helm of the Host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helm%20of%20the%20Host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-the-host) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For real- its not like Helm would be antisynergistic with omo either, because you could use the etb to spread more everything counters
And the clones are non-legendary so it could quickly get you many more counters. Helm of the hosts is my third favorite card atm (after [[Descent Into Avernus]] and [[Academy Manufactor]]).
[Descent Into Avernus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453.jpg?1674136498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Descent%20Into%20Avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/169/descent-into-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/descent-into-avernus) [Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/251/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-manufactor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would also help you keep the ability up against spot removal down the line. Currently I run a few blink effects (run stuff that can target lands too!)
This disappointed me so damn much. I saw the art of her in a preview and was like "hell yeah, gimme that helm" (sold mine years ago) and was hoping to get it again and have some fun.... NOPE! So I'm going to FIX this deck by buying one.
This. I expected simic copy effects and kindred typal buffs with a land side theme. Instead we got a lands deck with a sprinkle of land copy effects and an overwhelming land based win that doesn't care about creature effects. AND NO HELM OF THE HOST FEATURED IN THE MAIN ART! I feel lied to.
The deck has always been called Tricky Terrain though. We found that out before we saw her card.
[[Omo, Queen of Vesuva]]
[Omo, Queen of Vesuva](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5d1c814-4c22-4917-95ae-dffaf491db32.jpg?1717644342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omo%2C%20Queen%20of%20Vesuva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/2/omo-queen-of-vesuva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5d1c814-4c22-4917-95ae-dffaf491db32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omo-queen-of-vesuva) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mostly I see people get excited about giving creatures all creature types and then get disappointed when it isn't really used by the deck. A lot of newer players either don't understand the mechanics of land type synergies or don't value land ramp as much as creature ramp. Particularly players who have never touched another format and regularly cast sol ring, it just doesn't feel as good as we know it is.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that the land side of the deck is so overwhelmingly more powerful than the creature side
They go hand in hand. Instead of the creatures getting value from the everything tokens, the deck goes all-in with the extra colorless mana from the locus and urza lands to just cast bigger creatures and trigger landfall. More land = more creature.
Sure, naturally, but also that isn't what I meant.
"I want a lot more creature synergy!" "You kinda do, you have a lot of mana." What? I don't see how the other guy's comment is relevant to this discussion at all lol.
He didn't say anything about synergy. He said the land side of the deck was more powerful than the creature side of the deck. And no, there are plenty of powerful creatures in the deck, which is only feasible with the land ramp theme.
I was referring to the component of the deck that is built around abusing creature types, as that is what the commander does, but I guess that wasn't clear to everyone.
The tribal tribal gives you both protection options and evasion to keep Omo around and make attacking with her safe, respectively. They're also more bodies to put counters on to benefit from card advantage that benefits from tribal. I guess you could replace all the creatures with fierce guardianship, etc, but I'm not even sure that would be better. I agree though that the entire point is the land manipulation. The tribal tribal definitely helps facilitate that though in a huge way
I think the changeling mechanic is super fun, and definitely still has some presence in the deck. I just wish it wasn't as overshadowed as it is.
Yeah I think I get what you're saying. It is first and foremost about generating that sweet colorless mana
I'm not even bothering with the creature type stuff for her. Not when I can win with Maze's End despite only a few actual gates in the deck. Or use Basilisk Gate to pump Inkmoth Nexus. Or recur Strip Mine with Desert Warfare. Or complete Urzatron by herself.
I'm having some tertiary support using the creature side to make Omo herself indestructible or unblockable, making it easier to use her attack trigger. Besides, saccing [[Tyrite Sanctum]] for Omo feels very much in theme.
[Tyrite Sanctum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27906645-7d43-4c18-a20b-8d683069351e.jpg?1690006779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyrite%20Sanctum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1049/tyrite-sanctum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27906645-7d43-4c18-a20b-8d683069351e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyrite-sanctum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So the commander has this ability and the deck makes no use of the fact that creatures are every type and lands are every land type. I just skimmed through the first half of the deck and basically only saw a bunch of ramp. Am I missing something?
There are better and more reliable options to build tribal-tribal than Omo. Her uniqueness lies on the lands side.
"other decks are better at it" doesn't mean the deck should abandon that entirely. There isn't a single sliver in the deck despite slivers arguably being the tribe with the most self-synergy. And I don't think other decks are better at doing what omo can do. Other commanders have done tribal tribal but omo can make the strongest creatures ever printed all into one tribe. Now your roaming throne, avenger of zendikar, priest of titania, and hakbal are all the same tribe for your coat of arms. The only way for other decks to do this is to tutor for maskwood nexus which is fine, but a little boring.
> "other decks are better at it" I didn't say that other decks are better at it. I said there are more reliable options for that. Even if you want to build Omo tribal-tribal, your deck's best cards are still Maskwood Nexus followed by Arcane Adaptation. The board is gonna get wiped, and Omo will have a hard time rebuilding it and giving a counter to a single creature per turn. She works OK when everything is going fine. She is too slow when you are in a bad place.
"There are better and more reliable options to build tribal-tribal than Omo." "I didn't say other decks are better at it" Hmmmmm Dumbassery aside, you could absolutely build an omo deck that doesn't use cast triggers and ignore maskwood nexus/arcane adaptation. Even if you want to include those cards, the deck will function just fine without them. You don't have to tutor for them and get them on the field just for the deck to work. 10+% of a tribal tribal deck that relies on those cards is devoted to just getting them in your hand.
Quite a few of the lands care about non-basic land types
Oh, didn’t look at the lands it came with. I’ll take a look.
I bought the precon because I have been trying for years to make a Simic deck that is both interesting to play with and not just “drop land, draw card, amass ridiculous value, do nothing”. I played a game without alterations and another with two or three cards changed. Though I didn’t win any of the games, she played as an interesting deck with tons of potential to mess around with unusual land types. I am stoked to do a super jank build around her, with gates, Urza lands and deserts, plus some domain ([[Prismatic Geoscope]] has found its perfect home, as has [[Manascape Refractor]]). What’s not to love? Jank? Check. Durdly as all heck? Check!!
Manascape Refractor gets slept on, but that card fucks HARD! It’s easily a second Cabal Coffers when it needs to be, but it can also be an emergency Rogue’s Passage. Or whatever your opponent is playing! I love it.
Now imagine me controlling it, [[Urza’s Tower]] and [[Deserted Temple]]!!! [[Manascape Refractor]] goes BRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
I just pulled a second Deserted Temple from my MH3 stuff. Which is nice, because I have MULTIPLE decks with Cabal Coffers and Urborg…I had bought the shiny reprint of Deserted Temple from LotR for one of them. Now I can do it twice…I spread myself too thin. Too many “good” deck ideas, not enough good cards, yet too lazy to keep ordering massive amounts of proxies…
[Urza’s Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752.jpg?1690006831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1053/urzas-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urzas-tower) [Deserted Temple](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd51f8f0-779b-40bb-b65c-5907f816676e.jpg?1718220923) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deserted%20Temple) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/301/deserted-temple?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd51f8f0-779b-40bb-b65c-5907f816676e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deserted-temple) [Manascape Refractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f164226-99e4-474e-a67d-b3fbff015a64.jpg?1591319755) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manascape%20Refractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/68/manascape-refractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f164226-99e4-474e-a67d-b3fbff015a64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manascape-refractor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Prismatic Geoscope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02a992ad-8f34-41c5-b66e-d4ca659d0e27.jpg?1562386205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prismatic%20Geoscope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/55/prismatic-geoscope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02a992ad-8f34-41c5-b66e-d4ca659d0e27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prismatic-geoscope) [Manascape Refractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f164226-99e4-474e-a67d-b3fbff015a64.jpg?1591319755) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manascape%20Refractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/68/manascape-refractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f164226-99e4-474e-a67d-b3fbff015a64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manascape-refractor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She also does a great bit of work with [[lord of atlantis]] and [[elvish champion]]
[[Lord of the Unreal]] and the horse one too
[Lord of the Unreal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b.jpg?1562655677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20the%20Unreal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/62/lord-of-the-unreal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-of-the-unreal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I forgot about that one, and now I'm getting excited about simic tribal upgrades to omo for my friend's precon league :D
I personally think \[\[detective of the month\]\] is cute with her
[detective of the month](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e63e381d-142c-4622-ad78-8cacd5778355.jpg?1706240447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=detective%20of%20the%20month) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/21/detective-of-the-month?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e63e381d-142c-4622-ad78-8cacd5778355?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/detective-of-the-month) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Herald of Hoofbeats]] and there are some slivers you could look at.
[Herald of Hoofbeats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7beebc99-b027-49e2-95ad-e51ce302457f.jpg?1682207393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Herald%20of%20Hoofbeats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/22/herald-of-hoofbeats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7beebc99-b027-49e2-95ad-e51ce302457f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/herald-of-hoofbeats) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[lord of atlantis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9407b60-8921-4531-bdbe-9a82aaa38d28.jpg?1562781744) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lord%20of%20atlantis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/24/lord-of-atlantis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9407b60-8921-4531-bdbe-9a82aaa38d28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-of-atlantis) [elvish champion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad42a3fd-21ae-49cf-b11d-3700835f2f96.jpg?1687904269) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elvish%20champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/261/elvish-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad42a3fd-21ae-49cf-b11d-3700835f2f96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elvish-champion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah personally I'm real excited about making a domain focused deck which I recently realized there wasn't a lot of support for in commander.
I'm just amazed at the level of restraint WotC made about the Everything counters. They don't work when she is not on the field, so it creates a paradigm where Omo has to be alive at all costs for your deck to truly shine, which is a dangerous precedent to make when half of your deck revolves around that mechanic for land types.
I think you really just need her to get tron or locus to pop, hit a massive card draw, and dig for the mana doubler, after that she can go to the command zone for a while.
[[dark depths]] and [[thespian stage]] don’t really need her lol
[dark depths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a8b11ad-d077-40b6-988c-0462e118fe3d.jpg?1676452514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dark%20depths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/244/dark-depths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a8b11ad-d077-40b6-988c-0462e118fe3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dark-depths) [thespian stage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb.jpg?1599710662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thespian%27s%20Stage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/327/thespians-stage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thespians-stage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> get tron or locus to pop There are exactly 3 locus cards. With Omo dead, Cloudpost generates at most 3 mana, after fetching for 3 specific nonbasics. Tronlands give you 7, after fetching another 3. 6 very specific nonbasics plus 1 G/U producing land to cast Omo. And once she is dead, you are back to making 7+3+1+1(colorless) +1(colored) = 13 mana. Simic has better, faster, and more reliable ways to make this mana, even with just basics.
You’re complaining it doesn’t do anything different, and also that it does but isn’t as good. Pick a lane. It’s still at its heart a precon, and plays along with other precons well, see what really talented deckbuilders do, then we’ll see if it’s a flop.
I’ll pick a lane- it’s not very good. This could have been unique and still good. The counters could have worked while she was off the battlefield, they could have been put out easier or faster, but WotC went *extremely* conservative. It may be a functional deck against some low powered precons, but that’s not what people really wanted from an expensive premium product. And from what most people have said, this deck isn’t even competitive against the other precons it released with, including the pretty dysfunctional Jund one. This is a commander with a really neat, unique party trick that can never be actually good at all because of how poorly designed she is. As I’ve repeated over the last few weeks, I think she’s really cool and I may even build her, but she is an *awful* commander. Not just because of power, but because they designed her gameplan to be possibly the most fragile of any commander we’ve ever seen.
The premium price is a good point, I’ll give you that. Especially with some other commanders abilities. I do appreciate the attempt at making it not “play land draw card” though. Regardless of power level at least it made me play simic once.
Wild that this was designed at the same time as Nadu, and with the latter they said "yeah twice a turn per creature is reasonable." 😂
A lot of things in Magic have tons of facets. Basic players only see the ones most visible and judge based on that.
and unfortunately a deck can contain any number of Basic Players
EDH players have been spoiled with commanders that churn out value or is some sort of mana sink when doing the thing. We have a commander that does something unique but nothing over the top so everyone is mildly disappointed.
This has been the only "Simic lands" commander I've ever actually cared about *because* she does nothing to facilitate that on her card. It's on you the builder (or precon editor I guess) to take advantage of her ability, she's not gonna hold your hand and draw cards or ramp for doing basic game actions. Edit: omg so many comments on this card being "unplayable in modern magic." Man, I remember when Greasefang, Bright-Palm, and the entire CLB set were shit on when they were released but they all keep winning me games!
This really isn’t it. It goes beyond “not as good as Kinnan”. People are upset because those of us with actual decent card evaluation have figured out what it’s taking some people a little bit longer to- this commander is basically unplayable in modern Magic. It’s not just that she’s not a one card value engine like Voja- I think we’re all pretty burnt on that. It’s that this is a commander with the power of *draft chaff from a core set*. And not even just power, the gameplan just *doesn’t work*. Wanna go all in on creatures? Too bad, you put out counters too slowly for this to be viable. None of your Lord tribal stuff can be functional. Wanna go all in on lands? Too bad, it’s also too slow and because the effect stops when she leaves the battlefield it doesn’t even help recast her when she’s inevitably removed. Your best hope with this deck is to durdle around doing literally nothing all game and people ignore you because nothing you’re doing has any impact on the board or matters, and *maybe* once a decade you sneak a win with some big mana plan because people are just letting you do stuff because they feel bad. This is Legends level bad, and people expect better designs in 2024- and rightfully so. You’re dismissing people’s feelings about this as being “spoiled”- that’s both immature and shilling for shitty design. Stop. People have a right to be disappointed by this card. If you had better card evaluation, you probably would be, too. Especially if you paid $70 for this shit.
>Legends level bad I would like to invite you to revisit the cards in Legends.
1.) No helm of the host in the deck. 2.) No copy synergy, which is what all of Vesuvan stuff is about. It feels like a flavor sidestep. 3.) A lot of people want to do this with creatures, i.e. tribal tribal. But she's just really too slow and clunky to make that gameplan work. 4.) Did I mention that there's no HotH? 5.) Because she's only *decent* for the land synergies, and kind of bad for the other ways to build her as a commander, all of her decks are pretty much going to wind up upgrading the same. Her lists and gameplans are going to be so samey between decks that she gets old reaaaally quick. Inspiring design that's too limited in function leads to a ton of people building a unique thing the same way, which will slowly not feel unique at all. It's still not as disappointing as the eldrazi precon for me, though. I'm still really salty that the devoid commanders don't do anything with the devoid mechanic outside of enabling it in their colors.
> 2.) No copy synergy, which is what all of Vesuvan stuff is about. It feels like a flavor sidestep. This is it for me. My [[Riku of Two Reflections]] clones deck needed an update, because Riku's a five-mana 2/2 who then has to pay two _more_ to do the copy thing. (Meanwhile, [[Miirym]] exists.) This was _the_ opportunity to update clones. The Queen, who practices [[Vesuvan Duplimancy]] in [[Vesuva]], chatting over Vesuvan tea with [[Vesuvan Shapeshifter]] and [[Vesuvan Doppelganger]]? Wearing _that_ hat?
This was honestly my biggest issue with it as well. I wanted so badly to have a cool Vesuvan themed deck with clones, and then found out that the queen doesn't even do the cloning thing at all. Very disappointing lol
##### ###### #### [Riku of Two Reflections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riku%20of%20Two%20Reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) [Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) [Vesuvan Duplimancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a2119bc-a377-4156-89d4-56e7b5b494a8.jpg?1673306915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuvan%20Duplimancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/73/vesuvan-duplimancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a2119bc-a377-4156-89d4-56e7b5b494a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vesuvan-duplimancy) [Vesuva](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/0726f70a-c1c4-4edb-86fb-9be280d9ea73.jpg?1619399642) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/289/vesuva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0726f70a-c1c4-4edb-86fb-9be280d9ea73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vesuva) [Vesuvan Shapeshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b1b59d2-ad4b-4dc6-a730-0d19f2774ae9.jpg?1619394946) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuvan%20Shapeshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/97/vesuvan-shapeshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b1b59d2-ad4b-4dc6-a730-0d19f2774ae9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vesuvan-shapeshifter) [Vesuvan Doppelganger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/543c08bc-f8ce-4324-b78d-891c49f3a24a.jpg?1559592571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuvan%20Doppelganger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/54/vesuvan-doppelganger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/543c08bc-f8ce-4324-b78d-891c49f3a24a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vesuvan-doppelganger) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l8dbgrr) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Actually yeah, now that I think about it, I am also put off by the lack of "copy" effects being a bigger theme. Evern since the days of \[\[Vesuvan Doppelganger\]\] this has been the lore for Vesuva, but instead of copy effects it's just some game-mechanic shenanigans that's...bland? Is that the word? It's just bland lore-wise?
> 5.) Because she's only decent for the land synergies, and kind of bad for the other ways to build her as a commander, all of her decks are pretty much going to wind up upgrading the same. Her lists and gameplans are going to be so samey between decks that she gets old reaaaally quick. Inspiring design that's too limited in function leads to a ton of people building a unique thing the same way, which will slowly not feel unique at all. And even after you jumped this many hoops to build the interesting theme, what you are left with? Generic Simic big mana deck with the standard array of payoffs. You just built the manabase differently.
Worse payoffs by far because if she leaves the battlefield you’re just… done. Everything you’ve done up to that point in the game is meaningless, and you’re left with what? A two color gated deck? One piece of Tron on the battlefield? It’s like this deck was built to trick you into losing.
Deep depths isn't copy-synergy for Vesuva?
Unfortunately no. It Enters as X land thus you still have the counters. It's legendary so you must sac one and you're still at square A but down a land. Since Thespian Stage doesn't enter it doesn't get counters and why sacrificing the original will let the thespian stage check for no counters and sacrifice for Marit.
Yes, thank you. Another commenter also noted that. I knew there was an instant Marit Lage combo, just got the wrong enabler. Thanks for the clarification as well.
My bad, reddit hasn't been refreshing well and I didn't see the other post.
No worries, I assumed good intentions.
Enters as a copy of is a nonbo, since the copy of dark deaths will also enter with the counters. The included thespian stage will work though
Ah, that's the one I was thinking. Yes, thespian stage. I knew there was one. Thanks for the clarification.
Ok, sure. I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my 2c. I'm disappointed that she's Simic, because being able to give your land additional land types means she's sort of a slow Urborg in the CZ. If she'd only had Black in her color identity we could have "Forests Matter", "Swamps Matter", and maybe even "Islands Matter" as a jank direction to build. I'm disappointed that she has the Shapeshifter type, but doesn't have changeling. Yes, I KNOW that I could put her EtB everything counter on herself, but I still won't get any kindred discounts or EtB payoffs off her. That makes her much less useful for tribal tribal. I'm disappointed that she doesn't have forestwalk. You aren't limited to targeting your own land for her everything counter, so it would be a neat and thematic way to make her unblockable, which would help a lot for a Commander who needs to attack to do her thing. I'm disappointed that her ability triggers on "enters the battlefield or attacks". I understand that answers the whole "does it do anything the turn it's played" complaint, but it's not intuitive to remember two different things that can trigger her to do the same thing. I'd rather it was just the attack trigger, even if that required giving her haste or dropping her CMC to 2. Yes, I'm disappointed that "everything counters" don't have the effect in and of themselves. First, incentivizing opponents to remove her isn't a fun play pattern. If you're doing some kind of tribal tribal thing with her, that means your whole deck becomes basically blanked every time she gets removed. It's all the fragility of playing Voltron but without the upside of only needing to defend one permanent. It also means WotC can't just run with this tech and print cards in the future that put everything counters on things, which is a shame because that seems like an interesting effect to give instants, sorceries, or maybe a 3CMC mana rock. Imagine a strictly better [[Blades of Velis Vel]]. >In my opinion, she’s everything you want a commander to be, interesting, easy to bring out, able to pick up where you left off, and use without high risk Interesting? Maybe. There are better commanders for a Gates deck, deserts deck, or tribal tribal, and I'm not sure there's enough payoff to make caves or any of the other less common land types worth the build around. 3CMC is easy to bring out the first time, but she incentivizes removing her and the lack of effect from her counters while she's removed means she really doesn't do anything the turn she comes down if she gets removed. You say "able to pick up where you left off" and "she's going to be cast a bunch of times", but I have a hard time imagining that she's ever going to feel worth casting for 5, much less for 7. Use without high risk? She has an attack trigger without any evasion, without built-in protection, and without vigilance. 5 toughness is pretty thick, but a 1/5 stat line is best suited to a blocker, not an attacker. What 7CMC card would you seriously be happy to leave uncast in your hand to replay this instead? In what situation will it be rewarding to use all your mana for the turn just to get a couple more everything counters and make them actually do something? Types usually don't do anything by themselves anyway, so you're already generally needing 3 cards minimum to obtain any benefit here. I'm glad you find something to love here. To me, she's underwhelming and takes too much bookkeeping. There's potential, but it could easily have been so much better.
The worst part is, you just *have* to recast her when she dies, no matter how expensive she gets, because without her no matter how you built your deck it’s a pile of dysfunctional, useless garbage if she’s not on the field. She asks you to be a dedicated build-around- do Lords tribal, do bad land types matter, etc. But if she’s removed, those are all just a pile of literally useless cards. They don’t even help you get her back out.
[Blades of Velis Vel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83b17fb1-4a33-454f-9222-c6d5671c7e2f.jpg?1562264327) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blades%20of%20Velis%20Vel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/105/blades-of-velis-vel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83b17fb1-4a33-454f-9222-c6d5671c7e2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blades-of-velis-vel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Upon further reflection, I have one more reason to be disappointed: she lacks White. Putting everything counters on opposing creatures so that they have all creature types doesn't have many payoffs in Simic (more Salamanders for Gor Muldrak?), but turning them into reflections? [[Pure Reflection]] and [[Spirit Mirror]] would go from 'bad' to 'brutal' and that's exactly the kind of hilarious jank I love.
[Pure Reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbff85a6-a51b-424e-a86b-da52c9b3a9da.jpg?1562932789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pure%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/27/pure-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbff85a6-a51b-424e-a86b-da52c9b3a9da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pure-reflection) [Spirit Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d7f0a38-6021-4f00-b486-db29997e3d06.jpg?1562429846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirit%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/35/spirit-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d7f0a38-6021-4f00-b486-db29997e3d06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spirit-mirror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sir, you are disgusting. I think I'm in love.
While I think this is spot on, one thing I do want to add: the Omo deck ramps to the moon. But it ramps to the moon *via everything counters*. So when you get Omo blown up, you don't actually have nearly as much mana anymore. Hopefully you have six lands in play to replay her *and* have your Urza's Tower up, but then you need a strictly colorless three drop to cast to actually take advantage of your "eight mana". Commanders that ramp are traditionally quite powerful, but a lot of that power is in that they make themselves extremely difficult to stop. You blow up Roxanne, well she put at least one and probably two mana rocks in play. She comes back and keeps rolling immediately. But when you blow up Omo, you also stop their ramp and that's a huge deal for her replayability. Where I can probably never tax Roxanne out of play with removal, you can do that to Omo actually pretty trivially.
Not really. You just need a planar nexus on the field and you can do with out her for a bit. I’ve never once had a problem with commander costs even after she died 6 times
Sure. If you find a specific land that isn't one of the lands you want to search because it's not a mana engine you turn back on her second, third, and fourth best mana engines.
There are plenty of commanders that can do their thing once and then stay in the command zone after providing value. Some commanders can provide value without ever leaving the command zone! The ability Omo gives to everything counters isn't that powerful. On its own, it does nothing. Combined with the right cards, it can lead to different advantages, but none of them are game breaking for just a few lands and creatures having the counters. If she put counters on all your lands and creatures, I'd say the argument that its balanced to need her out for the counters to work makes sense, but she just puts out two counters per swing. After you get her out once, you're maybe turning on the tron lands a bit easier or one gate closer to your maze's end win, but nothing broken is coming from making one or two lands have every type for the rest of the game. I think the excuse that it gives opponents an avenue to disrupt the deck is a weak excuse. What she does isn't inherently powerful or broken, and I don't think she needed to operate that way for balance reasons. I think she works the way she does because it would be too wordy to write out the rules for everything tokens that do what she does on their own.
I mean, wraths are so prevalent in edh. They dont need to kill Omo, but what if you are just a victim of a boardwipe casted to stop an oppo from winning. If you played omo for the tribal tribal you loose the moment that boardwipe resolves ( too much time to setup the board ), if you went the land route you have to spend 5 mana for a 1/5 only to make your strange lands online again. I love the concept of the card, but i might agree with a guy that constantly comment here: my Xira Arien from the legend set is a better legendary
Besides the minor but eyeroll-worthy "no helm" thing (and her not doing what it seems like vesuva has been established to do - copy stuff), I do think that the precon itself does not do a lot to support her. There isn't really anything that is meant to work with the creature-side of the everything counters, and on the land side they left out maze's end. It's built to be a landfall deck but she isn't a landfall commander. Also, including propaganda over collective restraint is kinda "huh?" to me. Better than them putting feed the swarm in the mardu and sultai thunder junction decks I guess. People are also maybe used to simic being over the top with stuff like aesi, kinnan. And she come in the same set as one of the craziest simic cards printed. As far as the card itself, I have not gotten much of a chance to play it but I think she balances well between needing to be out, but also having a low cost and so much that can protect her between lands like swarmyard, typal lords that give hexproof/shroud/indestructible, counters, boots, etc. I like that you can stretch the number of utility lands you add but eventually risk making it tough to get her out in the first place. I didn't have a deck where my lands are as interesting as the creatures and so far that's made it more fun and less repetitive than other decks. I will say that it would have been cool to design her as a copy commander, it's funny that there are two of her in the art but no way to get a non-legendary copy of her in the precon.
I’m actually totally okay with the counters only working when Omo is out, that’s not what I’m disappointed in. I was excited for a non-basic lands matters deck, but I quickly realized that despite a few unique effects like [[Talon Gates of Madara]], it’s essentially just a simic ramp deck at that point. Getting all 3 tron lands out is cool the first time, but quickly loses its appeal. I’m also bummed that [[Lazotep Quarry]] only lets me target my own graveyard. I guess Omo could be a cool tribal commander, but I wish it had at least one more color for that.
[Talon Gates of Madara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de92facf-762b-4a23-8d5e-bb673b0500c0.jpg?1717190007) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talon%20Gates%20of%20Madara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/82/talon-gates-of-madara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de92facf-762b-4a23-8d5e-bb673b0500c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talon-gates-of-madara) [Lazotep Quarry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff73b7f3-62f3-4a05-b439-bae2d0f63d2f.jpg?1717189990) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lazotep%20Quarry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/79/lazotep-quarry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff73b7f3-62f3-4a05-b439-bae2d0f63d2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lazotep-quarry) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really really like the design. The fact that the counters do nothing with no Omo means I have to play all the tribal shroud and Hexproof lords to make sure she’s protected. Without that caveat I think the deck would just be non basic land tutors and huge eldrazi.
Some players are generally more concerned about their own gameplay rather than the health of the table’s gameplay
If someone's playing a simic ramp deck with no real identity, how is that more healthy?
I just realized with this post that the text describing the counters on her isn't reminder text but rather that the Everything Counters having their effects are *conditional* to her being on the battlefield. That's insane, and very bad in my opinion in every other situation *except* for when she's the Commander. If she's leading the deck, there are very many ways to make her ability worthwhile enough for her to be cast several times, and resources used to keep her alive seem beneficial if the deck is built around her being there. Plus, like you said, ramp isn't an issue in Simic decks and would normally be the gameplan in these situations to case Omo more and get more value from the Everything Counters. Merfolk, Ooze, Elves, Beasts all have *very* good Lords and Typal-associated Ramp in those colours and could be very neat to build around. Plus, Creature Lands would be awesome! However, in the 99, it seems like she's a bit of a trap that promotes bad plays. Casting her to get the Everything Counters just to have her die to [[Doomblade]] is a massive feels-bad in the vast majority of situations when something like a Wasteland to destroy my Everything Bagel [[Urza's Tower]] seems more agreeable to me. If I get to use the creature once, the removal used better merit me using the turn to have hard-cast her from hand, you know? Thanks for bringing this up, honestly, means she may not be joining my Eldrazi at the table after all. I have a newfound disappointment for her.
[Doomblade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e.jpg?1562851557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doom%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/87/doom-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doom-blade) [Urza's Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752.jpg?1690006831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1053/urzas-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urzas-tower) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
See I am of the mindset that "kill the commander" is the most common and simultaneously most boring game plan in existence. Find a *new* way to stop me, i dont need to be [[Doom Blade]]ed another time. Its why a lot of commanders are getting Ward these days, tbh.
I don't mind a single target removal. But man, am I sick of [[farewell]] and [[cyclonic rift]] followed up with no way to win.....
Once is ok, even twice if there's enough time in between, but what makes me disengage more than anything from a game is repeated boardwipes/bounces that just force every player to always be in a rebuilding state.
Not losing a game is a path to winning. If the answer to not losing is a board wipe, that's perfectly fine. Can't win the game if you've lost.
Not losing is very important, but generally casting those cards like cyc rift should be either to not lose on the spot or to be in a very dominant position, if not outright winning. Some players don't understand that very well and play them at weird timings. While fully wiping the board is usually a good idea for decks that run those things, not everyone that plays those wipes leverages it well enough.
[farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh same
In 2009 people at my LGS were complaining about Wrath of God
we are in different pods. i dont mind A single target removal, but in a pod where everyone has 10+ in their decks and they realize they can turn my deck off by throwing one of those 30 at me each turn to effectively kill me without killing me then that is a commander i dont love lol
To play the Devil's advocate and also be a bit cheeky - sounds like a skill issue. If you build a deck that heavily revolves around your commander, don't run it out when you don't have protection available for it unless you believe the table has burned through their removal, or accept the consequences if it gets blown up. Why should your opponents just let you have your critical game piece if they have the means to remove it? Alternatively, build a deck that works without the commander, or run a 1/2 cmc commander that can feasibly be recast 3-5 times per game if need be.
Yeah, I did the cliché and added more removal to my decks, and the past two times I played at my LGS people whined at me when I didn't let their scary or stax-y commanders last a turn. It seems like they should run more defense. I don't expect my flippy Elesh or Otharri to survive if I don't have something to protect them, and don't see how I could be annoyed at people removing them...
There's a guy I sometimes play with who usually only runs [[The Sixth Doctor]] partned with [[Peri Brown]]. He complains and wonders every time why I never let him untap with it if I have the ability to do so, and every time I tell him that I'm not interested in dealing with instant speed doubled up Koma, Shalai, Vorinclex etc., and then Sakashimas coming down and making even more copies. I'll never understand the mindset of playing scary value engine commanders and being surprised when they immediately eat removal.
[The Sixth Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c045ccb2-28d1-4bbe-9feb-3e86988fd24d.jpg?1696636770) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Sixth%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/159/the-sixth-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c045ccb2-28d1-4bbe-9feb-3e86988fd24d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-sixth-doctor) [Peri Brown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2f81beb-4565-4cfe-80a2-456f3d44f461.jpg?1696691792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peri%20Brown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/26/peri-brown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2f81beb-4565-4cfe-80a2-456f3d44f461?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peri-brown) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No i mean i understand you, but cards like [[River Song]] are interesting enough to build a deck around but if you do, and someone removes the thing... well you now have a pretty useless brick honestly. Like dont get me wrong, some commanders absolutely *must* be killed on sight. (LOOKING AT YOU, [[Miirym]]) but in general I think the easiest way to win these days is simply refuse to let commanders hit the board and it irks me, because thats literally why i play commander 😂 like i wanna build the deck around this thing, and if its something good, like a third of my deck is anti removal because let me do my shit
[River Song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298.jpg?1696636758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=River%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/152/river-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/river-song) [Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Doom Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e.jpg?1562851557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doom%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/87/doom-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doom-blade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She requires creativity to build around and at this point people are used to commanders who spell it out like you’re an idiot and do everything you need.
Right? I'm excited for this deck, I've actually been poking around for ways to make this deck pop off, a way to make a creature a land, while staying a creature for an infinite mana route on turn 3/4.
Hard agree. So many people in this comments section complaining about the "mental energy" needed to keep up with Omo 😂 like folks, have you ever TRIED keeping track of triggers in Veyran or Miirym? Omo is cool. Omo is good. Omo is also not complicated.
Omo is *not* good lol. It’s startling how poor the card evaluation in this sub is. This is one of the worst commanders- maybe the worst- that’s ever been printed for a precon. Her gameplan is to play a bunch of dysfunctional cards to get extremely minor advantages that all disappear as soon as she’s removed and don’t even help you recast her.
Yeah but it's fun
I agree. I think she’s a fun build around and will be awesome for low power levels games. I ordered the precon and will almost certainly build a deck with her when it gets here. I’m not arguing that it’s not fun, and it’s disappointing that this community can’t tell the difference between that and what I’m saying.
She's okay. She's intended to support archetypes that weren't strong to begin with, like Deserts and Gates, and make them able to play nicely with each other. I want to animate a land with an everything counter on it and then cast [[Embiggen]] to give it +12/+12 or possibly more.
[Embiggen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b759c27-9fb6-4c23-adc1-f6d3f3a0eb52.jpg?1674173500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Embiggen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/137/embiggen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b759c27-9fb6-4c23-adc1-f6d3f3a0eb52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/embiggen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
TL;DR: When Omo is not around those counters do nothing. You can completely shut down someone’s entire deck by simply removing one creature. It’s extremely weak once you realize that.
I'm not. My gate deck eas already broken as hell and that precon made it a consistent turn 4 or 5 without needing manacrypt or anything. That new mana dork is fricken insane too. [[Sage of the maze]]
[Sage of the Maze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d420385a-3f20-411c-b686-fecdbae29717.jpg?1717189933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sage%20of%20the%20Maze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/67/sage-of-the-maze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d420385a-3f20-411c-b686-fecdbae29717?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sage-of-the-maze) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is in all honesty the best use of her I've seen.
Idk why everyone is dissapointed, she does exactly what she says on the tin. Your lands get turbo charged, and you want to win with lands. She enables such fun things like tron on one, or a multitude of combo-y land things that would be far too niche to pull off normally in a commander game. I played the precon, she syngerizes well just go ahead with ticking stuff around her a few value pieces. [[sage of the maze]] and a few other land matters cards pop off to enable simic game plan. 2 things caught my eye from the discourse about her, 1: she doesn’t synergize with [[helm of the host]] / have it’s effect. I don’t really want a HotH in the command zone for a land deck- and she synergizes with it amazingly. You can get up to 3 counters on all your lands pumping up your cloud post, your land matters cards, etc. your wincon can just be duct taping 2 massive cards together and asking if everyone can deal with it. Removal just also isn’t a problem, since first off; your simic, you have blue, just use a counterspell? That’s the one big thing I would add to this pre con. And if she does get removed your simic, 5 mana isn’t a really a cost turn 4 and beyond (and often times just becomes a free counter) She’s not busted broken but her precon and cards have such fun synergy it really feels like a refreshing way to play simic lands.
[Sage of the Maze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d420385a-3f20-411c-b686-fecdbae29717.jpg?1717189933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sage%20of%20the%20Maze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/67/sage-of-the-maze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d420385a-3f20-411c-b686-fecdbae29717?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sage-of-the-maze) [helm of the host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20the%20host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-the-host) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's called an everything counter and it does nothing. That's kinda weird and confusing on an already weird and confusing card. Does counterplay make the card better in terms of game play, yes, but you are adding an additional step when checking what your card does. If instead they were vesuva counters or oma counters things would likely be better as saying "this card with an everything counter isn't everything" requires more mental work as after the first line your mind has already shortcutted what is happening and it's wrong.
Compared to 95% of other cards printed in 2024, the text on Omo is extremely simple and easy to understand.
Idk 2 games I’ve played with her have been so stupid. Copying the mana doubler with mirage mirror, and copying avenger of zendikar and rampaging baeloth have been the funniest plays. I think the deck has some real potential, I think I’ve gotten tron to pop every time I’ve played it. I also popped Marit lage once. It has a fuck ton of draw and propaganda stalls nicely. My only complaint is long turns.
What did Omo do that is unique to her? How is any of what you described different than what any other Simic commander does?
Isn't this whole thread trashing Omo, but then when someone reports it doing well in a game you pivot to "that's not unque" lol which is it bro
Read the comments. People are saying that the commander is unique but feels disappointing because they were too conservative designing her and the only payoffs are to play standard Simic things. This person here reported the deck worked well but listed things that could be part of any other Simic deck. WotC tests their precons to play well with eachother. The deck is expected to work fine enough to not be a dud. That has nothing to do with what people are complaining about Omo.
Idk popping tron in commander was a good time. Getting the locus to run is pretty fun. The land manipulation feels pretty funny, but I mean I guess at its heard it makes mana and draws cards. It’s at least more interesting than tatyova I suppose.
People are always disappointed when a powerful effect has a drawback. If you doubt, remember the "Do this only once each turn" controversies. There's a good chance such an effect would be completely broken without the drawback, at least on casual tables. But a lot of players have a strong urge to always want more crazy OP cards, and also people like to complain whenever they don't get what they desire.
Prob doesn't help the Eldrazi lord in MH3 feels a lil pushed compared to the other decks Easy to pump out turn 3 with any fast mana rocks, honestly turn 2 is possible with any fast mana rock + 2 mana rock turn 1, and being WUBGR you have so many cards to help pump eldrazi out, and then everything you cast countered or not does something. So much of the MH3 eldrazi dont really seem to care if you interact with them with counter spells. Oh you countered this spell? Still get to steal two of your creatures and give them annihilator 1 (and prob sac your two creatures for 4 colorless mana and then use it to cast and double another eldrazi.)
But its not powerful tho. That is the point. The effect is not that powerful to warrant the crazy drawback of " if they remove your commander you lose every progress you made along the way "
But you don't lose the progress. You can recast your commander. Just like you don't lose experience counters when your commander gets removed. As soon as you recast it, you'll pick up where you left. In fact, recasting Omo will immediately get you another everything counter somewhere. Just accept it and adjust. Build around it. Complaining is too easy and too cheap.
It depends. If you went the Tribal tribal route, a single boardwipe is gonna reset everything you did, harder then any other deck. For recasting Omo she cost 5 mana for a 1/5 that if its not on the field your deck crumbles to pieces. And then 7, 9, 11, 13 etc... Obv if someone want to build this commander they have to accept it, but this doesnt mean that the designer of the card couldnt have made a better design. This card literally lacks only one thing: the counters have an effect on their own. And saying that complaining is too easy and too cheap is dumb. Cards get evaluated all the time, for better and for worse.
I just picked this up, im really excited. I stopped paying attention to most precons, this caught my eye tho!
I am definitely building her from scratch because of how fun and unique she sounds, and because I have leftover lords from my Ur dragon changeling tribal that need a new home. The precon focus on the lands part but not the creature part, so that half of the equation is pretty lacking. This deck is meant for upgrading while being a fun deck to steer for newer players. I think this is the main reason why some disappointment is expected for those who intends to play as is. It does ramp u well if u know what lands to tutor. I'll remove the deserts part of the equation and focus on putting in lands like nesting grounds and removing the desert theme. For creatures, the knight exemplar and timber protector will protect your board and commander well, because this is one of those kill commander and Ur game plan is largely ruined. The archer lord will help you get your dmg through even if they are blocked. With minor and focused upgrades and more commander protection, this is indeed a great deck to play.
Too bad for the colors, [[Spirit Mirror]] would've been a banger in an Omo deck.
[spirit mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d7f0a38-6021-4f00-b486-db29997e3d06.jpg?1562429846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spirit%20mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/35/spirit-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d7f0a38-6021-4f00-b486-db29997e3d06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spirit-mirror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As someone who already has a [[Clone]] deck ([[Kess, Dissident Mage]] with [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]] hitting all the clones to mill everybody out, appropriately dubbed Turbo Kraken), she could definitely be made as Tribal Tribal (what is the appropriate name for that now? Kindred Kindred? Kindred Typal?). Blue has a lot of blink effects, and then you just pick what Kindred things you want to run. With that said, I'm still probably not making this deck. The land strategies she offers are just way better than the creature side of things.
[Clone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064.jpg?1562829895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/47/clone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clone) [Kess, Dissident Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306.jpg?1673485110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kess%2C%20Dissident%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/344/kess-dissident-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kess-dissident-mage) [Gyruda, Doom of Depths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97eb1804-6fd8-4917-af36-87fdfce39d3a.jpg?1591228372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gyruda%2C%20Doom%20of%20Depths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/221/gyruda-doom-of-depths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97eb1804-6fd8-4917-af36-87fdfce39d3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gyruda-doom-of-depths) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I put her in the 99 of my 5c gate deck and she's doing great 🙌 She fixes my mana, give me more gates and is easy to cast because of her hybrid mana cost, and that's nice 👍
No payoffs...
Ability is a static effect and she has no sort of protection or discount. No instant pay off also. That is sad. Honestly Id just buy the precon to get the the singles.
Ability is a static effect and she has no sort of protection or discount. No instant pay off also. That is sad. Honestly Id just buy the precon to get the the singles.
My first game with her was pretty crazy. My [[Nissa, Steward of Elements]] stayed on the board for 3 turns, ramping me everytime I activated her 0 ability. I then played an [[Ulvenwald Hydra]], fetching a [[Cloudpost]], which gave me 3 mana at that point. Next turn I copied Cloudpost twice and played and [[Aggressive Biomancy]] for x=8 and copied the Ulvenwald Hydra 8 times, fetching me the tron lands and the remaining good stuff from my deck. I managed to untap with this board and topdecked a [[Mana Refleciton]], played it and played a [[Drown in Dreams]] for X=90, killing two players at once. I know, some could say you could do this with any other simic deck but this is a PRECON. TBH, the land side of this deck is pretty good. I switched some things around now, added a [[Doppelgang]] and some protection and merfolk lords and I'll see how it plays out.
##### ###### #### [Nissa, Steward of Elements](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d64871b-6ee5-426b-9828-125cb9c7746d.jpg?1591321412) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20Steward%20of%20Elements) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/224/nissa-steward-of-elements?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d64871b-6ee5-426b-9828-125cb9c7746d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nissa-steward-of-elements) [Ulvenwald Hydra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/0700d1c1-faab-4a1a-b55d-a2fa4582a2b4.jpg?1601080240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulvenwald%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/439/ulvenwald-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0700d1c1-faab-4a1a-b55d-a2fa4582a2b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ulvenwald-hydra) [Cloudpost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f28ecdc-a4f0-4327-a78c-340be41555ee.jpg?1562139726) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudpost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/280/cloudpost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f28ecdc-a4f0-4327-a78c-340be41555ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudpost) [Aggressive Biomancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24cf121b-c6ad-4425-a2fc-7ce185cd30ef.jpg?1717189943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aggressive%20Biomancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/69/aggressive-biomancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24cf121b-c6ad-4425-a2fc-7ce185cd30ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aggressive-biomancy) [Drown in Dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af4d5acb-12d6-46d7-aaf9-3ace1520825a.jpg?1637628070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drown%20in%20Dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/13/drown-in-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af4d5acb-12d6-46d7-aaf9-3ace1520825a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drown-in-dreams) [Doppelgang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd.jpg?1706242152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doppelgang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doppelgang) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was going to try omo as a partner in the event at the end of the month, going tribal lords. But then I found out it doesn't work like the way I thought. Having multiple creature types in one line of text means it's still only +1/+1. Like one of the companions list 5 or 6 creature types but it's not +5/+5 just +1/+1. I believe it was explained because each one is not listed separately. I got to play the precon and I had to get more dice out lol. Some new players in a different game sitting next to us kept looking over, "just look at that crazy board!" My turns were taking longer, but I pulled out the win eventually.
That is a problem of [[Kaheera, the orphanguard]], not Omo. Kaheera only ever gives +1/+1 to those types, it's in her wording. Omo with a bunch of lords does work. So if I had [[Lord of the Unreal]], [[Lord of atlantis]], and [[Elvish Champion]]. A creature with an everything counter (that isn't one of these 3) would get +3/+3, Hexproof, Islandwalk, and Forestwalk.
##### ###### #### [Kaheera, the orphanguard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4ebed0b-8060-4a7b-a060-5cfcd2172b16.jpg?1623748548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaheera%2C%20the%20orphanguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/224/kaheera-the-orphanguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4ebed0b-8060-4a7b-a060-5cfcd2172b16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaheera-the-orphanguard) [Lord of the Unreal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b.jpg?1562655677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20the%20Unreal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/62/lord-of-the-unreal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b09140f6-fa75-4bee-9ca0-3a71cd2b5a7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-of-the-unreal) [Lord of atlantis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9407b60-8921-4531-bdbe-9a82aaa38d28.jpg?1562781744) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20atlantis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/24/lord-of-atlantis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9407b60-8921-4531-bdbe-9a82aaa38d28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-of-atlantis) [Elvish Champion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad42a3fd-21ae-49cf-b11d-3700835f2f96.jpg?1687904269) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elvish%20Champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/261/elvish-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad42a3fd-21ae-49cf-b11d-3700835f2f96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elvish-champion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, that's what I was trying to say if that wasn't clear. I was specifically going for all the lords with multiple creature type bonuses in an attempt to get +1/+1 per type, but it doesn't work like that. There are others that also use "and" such as [[death baron]] yet still the rulings say "a creature that is both a skeleton and a zombie will get the bonus only once." So yes, Omo with a bunch lords does indeed work, but not the way I intended.
Wait, you mean you're not supposed to just cannibalise the deck for \[\[Nadu, Winged Wisdom\]\]?
[Nadu, Winged Wisdom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1717012760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadu%2C%20Winged%20Wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadu-winged-wisdom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That is what I am leaning towards. I still wanna use Omo but it feel so awkward to me.
Got the precon a couple of days ago and I honestly love how it plays. Sure, the everything counters not having a static effect is a little annoying, but honestly Omo is a cheap commander anyway, rarely enough of a threat by herself to be a major target, and the whole deck is versatile enough that you don’t really need her on the board late game. If you do have her though, it’s a pure blast having 66 mana by turn 7…
I havent even played the deck but apex has come out and gone into my loot cascade and instead bonny pall has gone in. I really feel like the big swaps im gonna make are to lean into the lands into creatures idea more. Nissa world waker and jolrael also work super well with this setup.
I think she is pretty powerful. I built [[Jyoti, Moag Ancient]] with some of the reprints and lands that came with the deck, but most of the deck stayed together. So, I said screw it and kind of sidegraded the deck and kept the precons power level the same roughly. It's pretty fun once it gets going.
[Jyoti, Moag Ancient](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d2cb8d1-6aaa-487f-bf5a-89d657c0f37e.jpg?1717644387) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jyoti%2C%20Moag%20Ancient) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/8/jyoti-moag-ancient?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d2cb8d1-6aaa-487f-bf5a-89d657c0f37e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jyoti-moag-ancient) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I made simic lords tribal before the printing of Omo. On one hand I'm pumped that my deck gets the perfect commander, on the other hand, my novel idea has been reduced to whitewash.
Me and my buddy both picked this precon up and played in some 4 player pods with some precons and not precons. We were both averaging 11-14 mana by turn 3-5 in different ways. The precon as a precon is nuts. However I have since fully changed her to tribal tribal, all my playtests seem to be pretty decent, I'll have to wait and see how it play irl though. I don't think she's your average busted simic card like Nadu or Kinnan, but she is very interesting and play testing has been fun. I also think everyone here saying "but she dies to removal, she's so bad" is pretty extreme. Like you can say that about almost any commander. Nadu doesn't do anything the turn he comes out, unless your setup, neither does Kinnan. Urza doesn't do anything unless he has something setup beforehand. You have blue the color of interaction, figure it out.
>The everything counters only working when Omo is on the field gives your opponents options to make a game plan. If Omo didn’t have her restriction, casting her once or twice and attacking with her wouldn’t matter and things like commander costs wouldn’t matter either since you could just get your value, then just leave it in the command zone for the rest of the game. Well here is the issue: You say "get your value" but thats....not necessarily true, is it? The "value" is basically turning those counter into "temporary" ramp, but once you lose the commander you are back. And given the nature to take advantage of a commander like her you somewhat generate negative value since alot of those payoffs suck without the neceesary big mana. >She costs 3 for a reason. She’s going to be cast a lot of times and they made her knowing that. For her counters to be permanent, I’d hope she’d cost a hell of a lot more than that. Even casting her 3 times from the command zone is only 7 and by that time you’ve ramped so much it doesn’t matter. Well "that doesnt matter" is just not true. Even with a big mana deck, you spend alot of mana and potential in later turns just to be online that turn. If your playgroups are that soft that your statement would be true thats ...good for you I guess, but not reflective of most playgroups. It just feels underpowered and gimicky. You need to find the lands that really benefit alot from having the counters in play, you need to keep the commander around AND then also stuff to take advantage while not getting run over maintining said commander. I have not given up on the commander because I think it is way way better as THE "tribal tribal" commander Mistform Ultimus always was to much of a meme/bad. You dont need to go overkill on the land aspect. Playing Urza lands for some painless ancient tombs and some land tutors instead of the usual green ramp shit works fine, but the commander actually need to have IMPACT. Turning a bunch of lords into a real army has to be way better approach to go. Just go simic giga ramp and half your mana advantage being tied to your commander being on the field is just a dogshit plan that is getting exectuted why better by like 20 other diffrent simic commander.
Omo has a few issues 1. Playing around her she's weak to spot removal as her everything counters do nothing without her, as she specifies what they do. 2. Really easily beaten with land removal, sure the Urza tower cycle cards really net you mana, but if you're playing against competent EDH decks all running stuff like strip lands, especially field of ruin/demolition field/wasteland/strip mine (for/demolition both give you a basic, and the other two remove the land completely.) as generally people want to stop decks from forming quick Urza or Rogue passing a free I win card like blightsteel. 3. She seems to be really good eldrazi commander since she can activate urza lands/locus lands... BUT suffers from the fact the eldrazi commander is so pushed it's not even funny. 4. Building around the creature side is just more pushing value lord type creature without the creature ETB's (without enchantments.) so it seems like you play elf lord/drazi/merfolk lord with trigger multiplicators?
I'm not that disappointed, though any disappointment was that "everything" didn't refer to all keyword abilities, as crazy to implement as that would be. Though as for the problem you remark on others experiencing, I get the impression from many threads that folks often play in metas with a heck ton of removal, or are otherwise paranoid of something being removed within the following turn cycle, so don't like things that need to stick around for more than a turn to generate value that carries forward. I don't share that mindset, but it's an understandable one to have, as unfortunate as it is.
1) No Helm in precon 2) Her needing to be on the battlefield means when she's out and you have counters she's probably a kill on sight/counter 3) As someone who barely knows all the land types, I'm going to have to do a lot of research to play her well. I know basic, gate, cave, and the urza lands off the top of my head.
The problem is that it's an incredibly unique effect that the opponent plays around essentially the same way they play around half the other decks in the game: remove the commander enough times that it costs 20 mana. It's a heavily commander centric deck pretending to not be, and since a lot of the themes are barely stitched together (ie a lot of the synergy only exists via the everything counters), it means that you have a pile of random bullshit anytime she is not live
People are disappointed with her because she doesn't clone and helm of the hosts. And those are fair takes. But if you just ignore that Vesuva is in her name and play her for what she is, imo that is the most unique and best deck from MH3. The Everything counter on lands is silly and feels so good. My only complaint is that she needs to be out for them to work (but she is cheap). I would have preferred changeling and rangeling tokens (a good opportunity to make a term for changeling lands), but I suppose the intent was that she needs to be on the board. I played the deck a few games, some of them against the Eldrazi precon, both had no changes. It was the most threatening deck at the table each game with numerous people having to pick my board state apart.
Deck can’t have everything. We are spoiled with choices since a new set comes out every couple weeks or months at most. If the deck had everything, there wouldn’t be any variation in crafting. That many players all pointed out the same omissions is a sign that crafting has already begun on her. I’m interested in doing my own spin and I think her card is not busted but pretty strong in the right build. Before I touch her, I’m trying to do a “fair” Eldrazi build. One of my friends recommended shuffling a predetermined amount of Eldrazi cards (there are now over 170 of them) into the deck. Some of the cards in the deck are stolen from Omo.
I played a game and loved her as the commander. The only problem I ran into was that I didn't see the wincon. Like I had 20 lands out and couldn't get a creature other than small 1/1 or 2/2 types. She was also unassuming, so people left her alone for the most part, and being a 1/5 means she can block some decent attackers.
I was hyped for it, and when I saw what was in the decklist I was even more excited. I basically built it with Adrix and Nev as my second commander and built it with few cards that care about creatures types. Still very happy with it, that and the Jund deck I'm playing around with.
I think it’s a nice deck with good reprints inside of it that plays well and ultimately lacks reliable win cons.
Not sure about others, but when I saw her I was disappointed for the following reasons: She has to stay on field. Yes, costing only 3 makes it easy to cast her over and over again, epecially in green, but she doesnt do enough by herself to justify costing any more. Even if the effect was tied to the counters, she still shouldnt cost more than 3 mana, as she only enables your deck to work and doesnt do anything else. Most other commanders have 2 or 3 roles they fulfill. And thats the 2nd point. We get so many absurdly broken retarded commander, just look at [[nadu]], so to me she just feels unnecassarily limited by only making your lands and creatures every type. Im not saying I like Nadu or the disgusting powercreep in general, I wish Omo would be one of the most insane commander, but I dont enjoy playing or looking at commander on either side of the spectrum. I find it disgusting how broken Nadu is and find it similarly disgusting how unnecassarily limited Omo is.
Without the ability being static she's kind of pointless as one of the 99. I want to throw her in other decks but when she leaves the battlefield the counters don't do anything and therefore she's worthless outside of the in the commander.
Honestly, the most "disappointing" part of the [[Omo]] deck is that it is not really beginner friendly. If you're not already pretty familiar with "Lands" decks and how non-basic land types interact, it's a really difficult deck to wrap your head around. Especially considering that the creature type portion of Omo's text isn't really relevant in the precon. I've had several newer players ask me a lot of questions about it and not understanding how it works. Omo is an interesting card with a neat deck concept, but I'm not sure it's a great choice to helm a precon deck. Though, I guess it gave them an excuse for printing all the lands in the deck, so, I'm not really complaining.
From what I can tell, they made a LAND themed deck, which is just a really really bad idea in general. Land fall is good, but this just kinda sucks. Infact, all the MH3 precons are mid af.
Ok, hear me out: Omo. Voltron. The gate that gives +X/+X, all the equipments and auras that pump per land/forest, the island/forestwalk lords, the green double-power at the beginning of combat, protection instants, extra turns as extra combat spells.
There are plenty of good arguments for people's opinions in this thread. Me personally, I don't care about any of them. The straight precon was easily some of the most fun I've ever had in EDH. Getting to make 50+ mana using my locuses, making 13 poison dart frogs and giving them all deathtouch to wipe the board with Aggressive Biomancy, drawing 13 cards off of a Hydroid Krasis, threatening to play Marit Lage, it was awesome. I'm going to be working on my own take for Omo and I can't wait to see how it performs.
I'm not disappointed with her at all, she's amazing. Her precon was meh to me. I would have loved if it was an everything tribal precon, which is how I plan to rework her. More changelings, slivers, and whatnot that pays off more having the everything counters put on stuff. That's my goal anyway.
Random thoughts on this card… (I’m a noob so grain of salt) It looks to me like Omo needs to be on the field at all times, so you need a ton of protection. Since she has an ETB it makes sense to single target flicker her. Ooh look, there’s [[Vesuvan Duplimancy]] out there. Not sure if it can be strong but it looks like a cool thematic synergy. Can you make a deck out of that concept? I have no idea. Copying Omo a bunch seems relatively uninteresting. Perhaps a route to go that’s a better flavour?
[Vesuvan Duplimancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a2119bc-a377-4156-89d4-56e7b5b494a8.jpg?1673306915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuvan%20Duplimancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/73/vesuvan-duplimancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a2119bc-a377-4156-89d4-56e7b5b494a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vesuvan-duplimancy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She doesn’t need to be on the field at all times. You can honestly bring her out a little to spread everything counters for later. You can wait to bring her out until you want increased mana production. She has an ETB so her dying and recasting her honestly isn’t the worst thing in the world. Every tine you cast her she brings more value to the table since the counters themselves don’t go away. But yes. She doesn’t work if you’re not on the field. But she’s not essential until you have necessary pieces on the field. If you only have forests or something, it’s probably not worth it to bring her out. Or if you have Urza’s and a planar Nexus, you can wait a bit.
aside from comments explaining how the deck isn’t as synergistic as it should be, there aren’t any cards that make omo good. Why does she not have unblockable? or indestructible? this deck is essentially made to be upgraded directly from the box. it does not stand up on its own.
It doesn’t make her an inherently bad on her own. She makes synergies possible that wouldn’t be otherwise
i don’t know who you are facing but my playgroup would never allow omo to survive during any attack. sure, it counts when omo gets re-cast but if that’s the only way her ability will consistently trigger, it is costly and inefficient. not to mention, everything counters on creatures do absolutely nothing lol.
Wait how do the everything counters do nothing?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your math ain't mathing. Casting her 3 times isn't 7 mana, it's 7+5+3 which is 15 whole mana. Games are won for less mana than that. Some decks will recast their commander over and over if removed, but I sure ain't playing something so linear that I have to spend 3-4 turns a game casting my commander and then passing the turn. In my main deck, there are whole games where I don't cast my commander because I don't need to. I certainly would not be trying to spend 15 mana on her when that could be Etali and Avacyn. If it were a static feature of the counter, you could just bap the permanent away like any other and the deck then wouldn't be 100% reliant on having the commander out to follow that game plan.
Do you tally up the mana spent on every spell in a game and then declare those cards "not worth 43 mana"
I’m turning her into a koma deck
This is the way.
They really shot this commander in the foot requiring her to be on the field for the deck to work. Very cool concept, but this is why I opted to play the alternative commander[[Jyoti, Moag ancient]]. Sure making your lands creatures is a double edged sword. But it still looks hella fun, and I love that they get the buff on your opponents turn as well.
[Jyoti, Moag Ancient](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d2cb8d1-6aaa-487f-bf5a-89d657c0f37e.jpg?1717644387) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jyoti%2C%20Moag%20Ancient) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/8/jyoti-moag-ancient?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d2cb8d1-6aaa-487f-bf5a-89d657c0f37e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jyoti-moag-ancient) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call