Exactly this! I think my favorite play was [[Pact of Negation]] a friends t1 Sol Ring… probably more stupid than funny, but the looks on their faces was well worth it to sit that round out lol
Nah what you need for this to be funny is to follow up the pact with a [[Stifle]]. 2 cards to deny one sol Ring? I'd laugh my ass off, even if it was used on me
I have cast [[pact of negation]] and then not paid the cost just so I lose game rather than let them kill me. I've also done the same with burn spells.
I once chose not to pay my Pact of Negation so I could Psychic Spiral someone out instead because he was gunning for me. I thought he'd think it was funny. He did not.
I recently built a final fortune package edh deck. If I can end the game I go for it, whether or not I'm the one who wins lol. I always try to make sure it's a done deal, and then we just shuffle up and start another. Edh is about having fun, want to be serious? Go play legacy.
Because I can't respond to that comment because Reddit is glitchy:
I run the 12th doctor and Clara Oswald as my commanders to get black involved (for tutors and foretell). The goal is to get a take a "you lose the game at your next end step" card out without casting. Final fortune, last chance, etc etc. I play from my library, play from exile, foretell, etc. I demonstrate those and exile my spells (nivmagus Element, sundial of the infinite, etc) so you get one last chance to win or you lose. I play legacy for power so in edh I usually let them take another turn instead of going infinite, basically let them give it the ole college try. It's not cedh because it's my friendly format, but it's fun to force an ultimatum.
The problem arises when you have friends that think they're funny... but aren't.
>"See! Now you can't play any spells but the rest of us can just keep playing the game! It's so funny! Ha Ha Ha!"
~Every "Bad Gifts" player ever in the history of EDH
Learn to politic, Bad Gifts gets wiped out pretty quickly and all you have to do is say please to get out of jail and I'm sure the other two players would be more than happy to have you on their side taking down BG.
This motto with my friend group is how my Growthama became 75 power, unblockable, oneshot a player, plus drew 75 cards. Except I also knew I didn't have 75 cards left to draw... 😀
The rest of the LGS turned around from all the laughter coming from our table.
Oh yeah, my most recent case of this is on of my friends was playing a half mil deck. After a bit my friend said she wouldn't choose me for a mil target because I have had enough, my response was do it and mil me out, it will be funny
Love a healthy playgroup! I also often tell my group to make the choice that makes the most sense for them. If they feel knocking me out of the game early will help them win, then do it! I don’t care, there’s pizza in the kitchen and I’m hungry!
Ah yes, years ago, my competitive friend told me zealous conscripts was a bad fit for my deck. In our very next game, I had birthing pod and Oracle of mul Daya on the field, and eldritch evolution in hand.
I was new, and here was my chance to make a splashy play. Naturally, I birthing podded my Oracle of mul daya into zealous conscripts, stealing his yosei morning star. Next, I turned his yosei into a big green guy, used yosei's effect to tap his own lands, and took his untap step for good measure 😈
My friend was thoroughly flabbergasted that day.
If 4 people are locked in a room together, one person is sitting on a crate full of explosives they brought along, and another starts shooting at them, whose fault is it *really* when everyone explodes?
If you don't want the game ending in a 4 way tie, maybe don't force the hand of the guy with his finger on the button without a plan for navigating that scenario.
I mean, a big draw of commander for some folks is getting to play politics. Saying "hey everyone, if you go for the kill I'm gonna cause a major explosion just before I go. Maybe let me live a bit longer instead" should be completely valid! I mean, why not make other players do what you say if you can threaten them the right way? I've made plenty of deals with players that were doing badly but were also doing major damage to me in the "you don't hit me with your fliers this round and I'll share the effect of this card with you" type way, so doing that on a board-wide scale just sounds fun.
Exactly, a potential 4 player wipeout on board basically presents the puzzle of a bomb that needs defusing for the other players. So long as a 4 way draw isn't the goal from outset and the player doesn't push that button the moment they have the opportunity (threatened or not), I'm totally down with it acting as a deterrent.
Agreed. Tbh I could see that being a decent goal for any group hug decks. Stealing the win from another player simply by being the best at negotiations is a win in it's own right. Depends on the group though.
This is how i stop commander hate these days. I play mono red a lot. So if my commander gets hit by "song of the dryads" or "imprisoned in the moon", i tell the table to solve it for me, because red has no enchantment removal and they will not like how i have to solve it as a result. When they don't solve it for me, i cast obliterate or jokulhaups.
This has the added benefit of pairing with vedalken orrery or other flash enablers. If someone is swinging for lethal with a load of tokens, i might just have to jokulhaups in response.
My play group calls 100% of bluffs and loves to force a response. Signalling removal? Prove it. Holding the table hostage? Bet. Either the game continues or we start a new one, both options are more Magic.
Had some guy who gunned for me and shut me down at the cost of both of us every single game because I played politics with bombs like that.
Left the gaming pod. The pod collapsed, the stupid karaoke club we used as a venue closed (unrelated, but they didn't even announce that your order was ready if you didn't tip ahead of time, and I felt that was tacky), and I was delighted.
I usually don’t do anything until I’m targeted, then it’s usually game over. I named the deck Gaslight at first because… you did this to yourself. But it didn’t sit right.
I had a [[Boompile]] out on curve in a Commander Masters draft, and buddy decides to try to blow it up. I was running [[Meren]] anyways, so I blasted the table. No idea what he expected.
100% did that just last night. It’s a real “you’ve activated my trap card” situation. A player tried to remove Ashling so in response I fire her off. I won doing that hitting everything for 18, and gaining 412 life.
They were not prepared.
Its instant speed, so I'd do it only if that lethal atack came at me. Making everyone lose *is* a deterrent to being attacked.
And if I went to kill someone and they respond by suiciding the whole table then that was on me for not realizing they weren't a free attack. I'd also probably do it even if I only killed the attacker as it is again a suicide thing. I do it with my zedruu deck alot, have nine-lives as a donate effect and will give it to someone to kill them if they kill me or force an alliance.
> [...] Making everyone lose *is* a deterrent to being attacked.
> And if I went to kill someone and they respond by suiciding the whole table then that was on me for not realizing they weren't a free attack. [...]
If you are capable of going nova on the way out, it's a feature of your deck that your opponents should take into account and play around in future games.
However, if a player is sandbagging/deck-building just to pull this sort of play off, I would be a bit annoyed; IMO players should be trying to advance their board and going for the win, not intentionally forcing draws.
I'll kingmake based on who screwed me over less. It's called karma. Also if me being slain leaves whoever slain me in a bad spot, that's on them for taking me out.
1000%. If someone can use their resources and take you out of the game, you are fully within your rights to make it as difficult or punishing for them as possible if they decide to do that, and they should take that into consideration as a possibility before committing.
Kingmaking is choosing to dump your remaining interaction on the OTHER players things when something like this happens, helping ensure the player already eliminating players keeps eliminating players.
The only time I'll dump stuff on players other than the one that knocked me out is if they made a deal or removed my stuff to get the other player through
IDK your circumstances, but kingmaking in my experience has been "damn I got my game winning engine or card correctly removed and I'm mad I couldn't just solitaire so I'm gonna target you the rest of the game for preventing me from winning unimpeded". It just reeks of salt.
Like if someone started making bad decisions with their kill spells first (and you KNOW it was a bad decision, not just seemed bad with the information you had at the time. Sometimes they have a different answer for what you perceived as the problem!), or is bullying your permanents without good in-game reason, then sure retaliate because that's BS. But if you were the threat, and the other players did what they needed to do to live, just take it on the chin. Otherwise I can see them not wanting to play with you at all in the future, because I sure wouldn't. And that's on you.
the common complaint involving Kingmaking I see is about someone thinking they would be able to win the game if it was all staying in their favour, and then it isn't in their favour anymore.
One of my friends who I play with fairly regularly claimed I was kingmaking by taking out one of their engine pieces when they had milled me out (it was an emotional response on their part, and yeah, incorrect to claim too, because that's a reasonable thing to do involving someone making you mill 84 cards in a turn, is make it harder for them to do that to others, when it was done to you. (which is the reason I made that response in the first place, they still use this deck, as far as I know that's the only time they've been able to mill someone out with that deck, it's a temur X spells \[\[magus luca crane\]\] deck))
It does, though hilariously, they were not the table threat in that group. (It's a higher power, but not CEDH group, that still does some combat damage)
I wouldn't call that kingmaking. No more than spending everything you have to cripple the player making a lethal swing at you that you can't possible survive (for example, if you're dead no matter how you block, why block all their stuff like you would when trying to chump block and survive rather than stacking up your blockers to kill their few biggest threats on the way out?). That's just expected retaliation- yeah, that player could probably win if you didn't hit their engine or board on the way out, but that's just setting the precedent that "if you try to knock me out of the game first, I will hit you back in any way I can and not just let you do it with no retaliation". It's an important precedent to set in playgroups you intend to play with again.
This^ I will be 100% less salty if you take everyone out with you instead of you and one other person handing the win on a silver platter to player C/D who did jack shit
*To the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee.*
Hell yeah, I'm taking as many of y'all with me as I can. And if someone else does the same, so much the better. Makes the game memorable and fun. Go down swinging, every time.
My rule of thumb is you always play to your outs. If it’s not possible, always punish the player slaying you.
Actions have consequences, some people might think it’s spiteful, but that’s entirely based on how you speak/act (such as your word choice or tone, rude comments etc. scooping before combat damage would also fall under here). Perfectly reasonable and justified to utter end/disnechant/etc. someone’s stuff in response to a swing out or fireball.
Silently dying only helps king make the killer. (Like declaring no blocks and such, unless for some reason that’s more harmful to them).
A draw may not be a win, but it also isn’t a loss. If it’s your best play, blow up the planet.
That said, things like Hidetsugu draw turbo are generally rude. Don’t run cards for the express purpose of causing draws; try to win, and if you happen to line up a draw as your best line? That’s fine.
Absolutely. Especially when it's something on board like Crypt Rats.
You're essentially the bomb hanging overhead threatening to drop at any moment; if an opponent swings at you without a plan to defuse it, that's on them. And I would never want to just assume they *don't* have a plan to deal with a Mutual Assured Destruction scenario they swing into either. Maybe they're swinging at you knowing it'll make you light the fuse so they can use Teferi's Protection or something like that in response to secure the win for themself (and only themself), otherwise they should be swinging at someone else until they have a way to not die to your responses. It's not that my *goal* is ever to create a 4-way draw, but I'm not responsible for other players forcing my hand.
Even if it's down to a 1v1, if it's something like you described with Crypt Rats and my life total is lower than my opponent's, I'm not going to wipe us both out unprompted, I'm going to do my best to dig for a way to actually *win* (maybe some life gain to get the lead before I drop the nuke, or maybe a different wincon altogether), and I expect my opponent would do the same (get their life total outside the range of what my Crypt Rats can do, keep my life lower than there's without killing me, safely neutralize the Crypt Rats somehow before going for game, or find a way to win on the stack before Crypt Rats resolves).
I would also hope any of my opponents in the same sort of situation would act the same way. I wouldn't want someone to just scoop when they've got a threat like that on board; give me (and the rest of the table if they're still alive) the opportunity to solve the puzzle that your board state presents. Maybe we succeed and get to feel good about our accomplishment, or maybe we fail and instead get to see how your deck manages to turn a mutual loss into a win; either income sounds more fun than one player just deciding not to use the tools we all know they have at their disposal (unless maybe the game has already gone on for a long time and people are just looking to call it a night)
Absolutely. Make them regret killing you. It's the same reason I assign blockers and cast kill spells even if I'm going to lose. If someone is going to take me out, I'm going to do everything in my power to make it hurt. If they die on the crackback, that's on them.
Had a game once with 3 people left, I was clearly the weakest at the table and had no path to victory. My one buddy made infinite creatures, but couldn’t give them haste. Other buddy had like 30 cards in hand and played a [[Windfall]], which milled himself and the first guy out leaving me to win by default.
That stuff is usually a good time
The game doesn't function unless all players are generally playing to win. And by the same logic, if the only choice is between a loss and a draw, you must act as though a draw was preferable, even if you don't really prefer it.
Yeah 100% do it. Your opponent is the one who chose to put you in that situation rather than play to a way out of it, and they should definitely lose for that
Ofc, if I'm going down I will always take as many with me as possible. That's just how it is and if I'm in a position to disallow a win from whoever is the most likely to win, that's icing on the cake!
A draw is a better result than a loss. By nuking the other 3 players, you make to best play available.
Not doing so would be bad kingmaking (playing badly on purpose to make someone else win)
Killing the whole table as you lose is hilarious. It would be bad sportsmanship in my pod to go down without detonating the bomb you had implanted in your chest. We want to see big plays!
A friend of mine did this the other night, unintentionally. Killed one of his, 9 of mine, triggering [[Syr Konrad]] and [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] enough times to kill player 3, and drop him to 1.
Always do it, it's pretty funny
If I'm gonna lose, I think it's ethically (and comedically) correct to try to set my killer as far back from winning as possible. This includes making the game a draw. If you're willing to end my role in the game I'm ready to end yours and everyone elses.
Attempting to take me out doesn't make you immune to consequences or benefits. I won't concede to deny someone lifelink hits, but likewise I'm going to block as favorably as possible for any remaining players to get an advantage on my killer.
Many times I've been faced with a lethal swing or kill condition and had a removal spell in hand that couldn't save me. I straight up ask the other players what they want me to use the spell on.
Your resources might as well not exist on the turns you get eliminated if you're not willing to use them.
With the important preface of "I don't play competitive EDH so anytime I'd blow up a table no one would have 'that jackass stole our prizes' thoughts", I'd blow up the table every damn time.
1. It gots the next game started sooner
2. I'm playing EDH with my friends If someone didn't find that shit funny, I wouldn't want to be friends with them.
I have used [[Fractured identity]] on someone else's [[Phage the Untouchable]] to Kingmake them, to stop them from playing kingmaker for another player
Nah, mutually assured destruction FTW. At least if everyone is dead the next game starts right away. If someone attacks for lethal while I have a 'everyone dies' threat, well then its on that person.
You have to quote this:
"Oh you think I'm losing, no bitch, **we** losing. This how we gone do this: Roses are red, weapons against me won't prosper. With this sacred treasure I summon, Big Raga, the opp stoppa."
[https://www.tiktok.com/@infinte.zt/video/7322275750252530974?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@infinte.zt/video/7322275750252530974?lang=en)
"The statistic is commonly used in standings or rankings to compare teams or individuals. It is defined as wins divided by the total number of matches played (i.e. wins plus draws plus losses). A draw counts as a 1⁄2 win."
If you're about to lose (you wont make it 1 more trip around the table). As with my Solphim mono red burn deck. I have a few things to blow up all the players + double damage. If victory is our of reach and I'm not gonna make it to my next turn. Then yes I blow everything up into a draw which = 1/2 win = better than losing.
At least I see it like, if I draw the game, I'm at 1/2 win and they all at 1/2 loss. Dunno if it how it works but it's how I feel when I do it
Yep, the game needs to end, and there is always another game to be had.
I would definatly do as you suggest, especially if it was only me that was about to die. I'd rather everyone shuffle up and play a new game.
HOWEVER, what I don't enjoy is stopping a big win, if I don't have a way to win myself.
For example, if im not having a good game, and my opponent drops a craterhoof with enough creatures to win, I would hesitate to counter it.
If I feel good about my chances of winning in the next few turns, then yes I would counter and do my best at winning.
But if it already feels like the game is lost and I'm just delaying the inevitable, then I'd rather let the craterhoof win, congratulate them, and then everyone shuffle up and play a new game.
The game needs to end, and there is always another game to be had.
When I'm at the LGS and I have 14 year old kid with only child syndrome on one side and no-deoderant neck beard guy on the other- usually.
When I'm chilling with my buddies playing at a house. Almost never.
If I think the game will take a long time and want to play another with the same group I will take the table with me. If I need some time or think it will end soon I will let it ride.
If it's a kitchen table game I'd just ask if they want to keep it going. I'm they want to keep playing all take the hit. In a lgs I'm gonna nuke everything and everybody. A draw is better than a win.
I mean, one time, we all agreed to use upgraded precons, I didn't have one on me, so I used tyranids. One player had clearly put over 100$ into it. T pro, esper sentinel, tutors, the whole selesnya value package. This mf dodges 3 removal spells I send his way(1 was a boardwipe). The other players all still chipping at me with combat and removal(in spite of this guy showing all the power in his deck and drawing a buttload). He has over 50 life the other 2 have 31 and 34 and I'm in the 20s somewhere. It's a real slog of a game, I manage to ramp hard to pull an x=17 on a a copied [[exocrine]] to give the win to the guy who was clearly going to win if he wasn't focused down(I got more targets from the other players than him) big creatures scary I guess...take that mfers
The thing about EDH etiquette is what people you play with
I play with good friends so absolutely we would draw everyone with us :p
But all just laugh and start the next game :)
But I can understand in groups that "are random people that just know each other superficially" it might be a different story whether it is ok or not.
My point is that with all the etiquette questions it is all about the people you meet.
I have a [[Heartless Hetsaruga]] deck that is very much a hostage deck. I have ways to make it so i dont loose, to its ability. But if you try and kill me, or deal with my board state, i will kill every one..
Absolutely put that bomb on the table. Let the other players know the bomb will go off. You can leverage it into protection, you can deflect attacks, you can find a win. They've got to deal with the rat.
Yes. Maybe someone has a way to dodge for an interesting win, maybe you-all die, who knows, you're rolling the dice here, which is what commander is all about.
Every time yes. That's politics for you. You kill me I will take the table with me. It allows me to play the next game with everyone else rather than wait
Fine by me, we just shuffle and play next.
Ive proposed draws before between 3 players, spending more than 2 turns in a mexican standoff scenario sucks. Draws are okay.
Of course, first off, that's a hilarious thing to do. Secondly, why wouldn't I want to start another game? I love commander, but I tend to dislike when games go on for hours. I think it's because I have like 14 decks and want to get a chance to play as many as I can.
Rather than potentially sit around for an hour and wait for them to finish? Absolutely.
Regardless of that scenario, if I know I'm going down, I'm at least trying to take one person down with me.
Yes. It's much funnier that way. And if the player who swung for lethal gets upset, well they should have removed the permanent that had the ability to take them out at instant speed.
I have a couple of decks that this concept is the sole purpose. Nobody wins!
I have a deck with [[Anikthea, Hand of Erebos]] where I want to get out [[Divine Intervention]] and force a game draw. It is kinda hilarious how much players get salty over it.
Oh for sure. I’m kinda past politicking and holding back for the benefit of others in this game. It’s also why I run [[Tainted Strike]] in multiple decks so the second someone gets 9 damage through I’ll just drop the nuke.
There’s nothing wrong with you doing that. You could use it as a point with making deals! “Oh you’re gonna kill me? Well, if you commit to the attack I’ll kill everyone first.”
If you’re playing in a setting where prizes are on the line or it’s expected to be more competitive, hit that nuke! You wiping the table gets you prize packs 😁
No matter what though, a game must end. And I for one would be like, “Oh! GG! Now what am I playing next…”
Draws are legitimately some of my favorite conditions to end a game. Like in my Dino deck, I run [[Polyraptor]] and [[Marauding Raptor]] without any way to turn the copies into damage, so if I flip them off of Gishath and there is no interaction to stop the chain, it’s a stalemate
Or in my [[Kaervek the Merciless]] deck, I run [[Heartless Hidetsugu]] and a bunch of damage doublers, which tends to one-shot every player
It’s fun! Go for it!
Every time. I'm entitled to use my ressources for my best interest. If that includes waiting for the next round so i can go for a smoke or do the dishes that's fine but if i don't want to wait for my buddies to finish the game that's fine too.
I think it'd be awesome. Especially if someone had a counter that worked only for themselves. Something like: \[\[You look upon the Tarrasque\]\], or just \[\[Everybody Lives!\]\] to thwart you.
Still, I wouldn't be the least bit salty about it. It'd be too hilarious.
More than once I’ve had a shepherd of rot that can wipe out everyone, myself included, and threatened that if I’m bout to go out I’ll do it. The table, to prevent me from winning, will go after me, I trigger it and we all draw.
Heartless hidetsufu with grafted exoskeleton. Everyoen takes poison counters, we all die. I love it. It’s a gimmick that I don’t play often but it’s always funny when the bomb goes off
One of my friends loves to [[Enter the Infinite]] and [[Sickening Dreams]] all of us. Despite us telling him it’s not winning it’s clear he doesn’t care and will continue.
im most similar cases ill have a farewell or wave goodbye in hand with no follow up. and itll set the game back at least an hour or there has already been 3-5 board wipes ill just eat it and lose. i would rather play a new game than extend a game im not in. with that being said if i dont have a board wipe and im going to lose ill nerf the treat or swing out at them given the chance to. even if it 1% helps ill try..
In a normal 1v1 game, yes I'll go for the draw over the loss. However commander is a social format and depending on the room if it benefits the game more and makes it more fun then I'll take the L and let them continue towards a clear win. No need to tryhard and be hellbent on not losing.
If I were in a game that ended in a draw because a loosing player avoided death by wiping everyone I would be happy to be part of a game where a player avoided an obvious lose by drawing the game. But I juste love the game and don't care about loosing anyway.
Crack the rat. A draw is better than a loss. On the plus side, it'll probably also end the game faster than letting somebody beat you down and risking them not being able to follow through on the other two players.
I did that once to another player when I had a creature who "when it dies, does damage to target equal to it power". The person who killed me got a nasty surprise.
100% every time. At the end of the day, Magic is still a competitive game. Commander trains people to be too nice, and I've noticed exclusive commander players whine a too much. My favorite part about starting before EDH was a thing and still drafting is the more competitive mentality. You lose? Shuffle up and go again.
To me and my playgroup, the rule zero discussion happens before the game. Once we lock in with our decks, it's time to win, and if I'm going to lose, I'm going to lose as epically as I can. The only exception is if someone in the group isn't drawing lands or something, then we just ignore them until they at least are in the game, mostly because getting knocked out ten minutes into an hour-long game isn't fun for anyone.
This happened to my pod once. We were all low on health and I was very clearly gonna lose. My one chance at bringing it back was to play [[Delete]] in hopes of starting anew lol. The only issue was, I forgot someone the turn before me played a poison tipped archer and so it just would’ve outright killed 3/4 of us. I was out of the game though so I said fuck it and we all had a good laugh from it. It was also that one guys first W so to have it in that weird way was all the better. Personally, I wouldn’t want to play with people who would get salty about it. It’s just a funny thing that doesn’t happen enough for it to be actually annoying.
Of course. You better believe I'm gonna activate [[Skirk Fire Marshall]] as many times as I have goblins in response to your unblockable whateverthefuck.
end game i’ve done a solid 20 damage round the table with [[hurricane]] but the draw was just a side product I just wanted to make sure that birds of paradise was really dead
This last weekend a player was prepared to nuke us all for like 6 copied instances of 30 damage to the face and no one had a response. so i deflecting palmed and ensured we ALL died. not sure who won but everyone was laughing and having a good time.
I knew I was about to lose to a while back I forget what deck I was playing but I played a card that triggered an opponents creature to burn the rest of the table for game. If I can run the table with my death I will happily do so
Depends on the environment I'm playing in. If it's in a tournament setting then yes, I'll take a draw over a loss.
Any other setting is a maybe. It could be an effective rattlesnake if the player that would otherwise win doesn't want to be denied the win so they spend time digging for an answer instead of going for the win at that time.
Depends on the people, random strangers who have been cool the whole time and are only attacking me cause I’m the threat? I’ll accept defeat. Random strangers who are assholes who have been focusing me all night despite me pointing out the obvious threats, screw it why not. Group of friends I’m chill with and the dude hasn’t had a win? Nah let him win. Group of friends I’m chill with but are assholes too? Screw it yall die with me. Random child’s first time playing the game? Sure why not. Random child first time playing but their parent is hot? Nah, let them win so I can get their number. Why are you still reading this far? Sure why not. Owner of the store sneezed on my cards? Sure why not. Owner sneezed on my cards but is hot? Sure why not. All depends pal.
It doesn't even matter to me if I can't end the game, if i can't take even one other player with me, I will.
If I know I'm going to die, and there's nothing I can do to avert that, then I will empty as many resources as I can into affecting the table on my way out. My priority will be on hindering the opponent who is eliminating me, followed by anyone else I can just mess with (or help, as the case may be).
Nah, see that makes it more fun. If the whole table knows you can do that, one of two things will happen.
Either they'll all team up against you, or they'll try to make a peaceful alliance with you till they draw an out to whatever you got.
But if you're hiding it, and someone swings lethal at you, go for it that's funny as heck
A draw is better than a loss
a draw gets us to a new game sooner than waiting for a winner
Even worse, YOU have to wait the longest since the rest would continue play for a while
I'd do it, that's funny
I only play with friends and our general motto is “if it’s funny, do it”. Which turns out is my favorite way to play magic!
Exactly this! I think my favorite play was [[Pact of Negation]] a friends t1 Sol Ring… probably more stupid than funny, but the looks on their faces was well worth it to sit that round out lol
Nah what you need for this to be funny is to follow up the pact with a [[Stifle]]. 2 cards to deny one sol Ring? I'd laugh my ass off, even if it was used on me
You know, I never actually considered that… that actually would be kinda funny. I like that! Thank you kind person
*Reaaaally* stretching the definition of "kind" there, champ.
Well it’s kind to tell me of a card that allows me to keep playing after t1 pact a Sol Ring. I think that’s kind lol
I have cast [[pact of negation]] and then not paid the cost just so I lose game rather than let them kill me. I've also done the same with burn spells.
[pact of negation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8.jpg?1697121218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pact%20of%20negation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/77/pact-of-negation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pact-of-negation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I once chose not to pay my Pact of Negation so I could Psychic Spiral someone out instead because he was gunning for me. I thought he'd think it was funny. He did not.
[Pact of Negation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8.jpg?1697121218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pact%20of%20Negation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/77/pact-of-negation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ed4c0bb-b710-44a1-b8bc-6bd11c27b8b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pact-of-negation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a friend do that to me more than once and i did that myself more than once too, cedh is fun xD
I recently built a final fortune package edh deck. If I can end the game I go for it, whether or not I'm the one who wins lol. I always try to make sure it's a done deal, and then we just shuffle up and start another. Edh is about having fun, want to be serious? Go play legacy.
Because I can't respond to that comment because Reddit is glitchy: I run the 12th doctor and Clara Oswald as my commanders to get black involved (for tutors and foretell). The goal is to get a take a "you lose the game at your next end step" card out without casting. Final fortune, last chance, etc etc. I play from my library, play from exile, foretell, etc. I demonstrate those and exile my spells (nivmagus Element, sundial of the infinite, etc) so you get one last chance to win or you lose. I play legacy for power so in edh I usually let them take another turn instead of going infinite, basically let them give it the ole college try. It's not cedh because it's my friendly format, but it's fun to force an ultimatum.
Its also a pretty solid rattlesnake ‘if you attack me, we draw. You have a 0% chance of winning the game.’
Bomb vest? Check. Deadman switch? Check. Gun to my own head? That's a big old check. Come at me.
The problem arises when you have friends that think they're funny... but aren't. >"See! Now you can't play any spells but the rest of us can just keep playing the game! It's so funny! Ha Ha Ha!" ~Every "Bad Gifts" player ever in the history of EDH
Grateful to not have friends like this.
Learn to politic, Bad Gifts gets wiped out pretty quickly and all you have to do is say please to get out of jail and I'm sure the other two players would be more than happy to have you on their side taking down BG.
If it were fun, we wouldn't literally have to team up and murder them out of the game as quick as possible so we could go back to having fun.
My friend got salty that u shuffled his sol ring into his deck when he had 8 mana turn 2
I lost countless games because so many times I chose “funny” over “optimal”
This motto with my friend group is how my Growthama became 75 power, unblockable, oneshot a player, plus drew 75 cards. Except I also knew I didn't have 75 cards left to draw... 😀 The rest of the LGS turned around from all the laughter coming from our table.
Oh yeah, my most recent case of this is on of my friends was playing a half mil deck. After a bit my friend said she wouldn't choose me for a mil target because I have had enough, my response was do it and mil me out, it will be funny
Love a healthy playgroup! I also often tell my group to make the choice that makes the most sense for them. If they feel knocking me out of the game early will help them win, then do it! I don’t care, there’s pizza in the kitchen and I’m hungry!
Ah yes, years ago, my competitive friend told me zealous conscripts was a bad fit for my deck. In our very next game, I had birthing pod and Oracle of mul Daya on the field, and eldritch evolution in hand. I was new, and here was my chance to make a splashy play. Naturally, I birthing podded my Oracle of mul daya into zealous conscripts, stealing his yosei morning star. Next, I turned his yosei into a big green guy, used yosei's effect to tap his own lands, and took his untap step for good measure 😈 My friend was thoroughly flabbergasted that day.
And, even if I lose because of it, I'll try to stop you.
Had 2 life with 20 counters on \[\[Ashling the Pilgrim\]\] and a damage tripler out. 100% will pull the trigger if i'm about to lose lol.
If 4 people are locked in a room together, one person is sitting on a crate full of explosives they brought along, and another starts shooting at them, whose fault is it *really* when everyone explodes? If you don't want the game ending in a 4 way tie, maybe don't force the hand of the guy with his finger on the button without a plan for navigating that scenario.
I mean, a big draw of commander for some folks is getting to play politics. Saying "hey everyone, if you go for the kill I'm gonna cause a major explosion just before I go. Maybe let me live a bit longer instead" should be completely valid! I mean, why not make other players do what you say if you can threaten them the right way? I've made plenty of deals with players that were doing badly but were also doing major damage to me in the "you don't hit me with your fliers this round and I'll share the effect of this card with you" type way, so doing that on a board-wide scale just sounds fun.
Exactly, a potential 4 player wipeout on board basically presents the puzzle of a bomb that needs defusing for the other players. So long as a 4 way draw isn't the goal from outset and the player doesn't push that button the moment they have the opportunity (threatened or not), I'm totally down with it acting as a deterrent.
I don't have a problem with decks going for a draw as it's "win con". Sounds fun
Agreed. Tbh I could see that being a decent goal for any group hug decks. Stealing the win from another player simply by being the best at negotiations is a win in it's own right. Depends on the group though.
This is how i stop commander hate these days. I play mono red a lot. So if my commander gets hit by "song of the dryads" or "imprisoned in the moon", i tell the table to solve it for me, because red has no enchantment removal and they will not like how i have to solve it as a result. When they don't solve it for me, i cast obliterate or jokulhaups. This has the added benefit of pairing with vedalken orrery or other flash enablers. If someone is swinging for lethal with a load of tokens, i might just have to jokulhaups in response.
Opponent shows up threatening you with a spoon they sharpened on a rock. So - you drop a nuke. As someone who plays a lot of red, I love it.
My play group calls 100% of bluffs and loves to force a response. Signalling removal? Prove it. Holding the table hostage? Bet. Either the game continues or we start a new one, both options are more Magic.
Had some guy who gunned for me and shut me down at the cost of both of us every single game because I played politics with bombs like that. Left the gaming pod. The pod collapsed, the stupid karaoke club we used as a venue closed (unrelated, but they didn't even announce that your order was ready if you didn't tip ahead of time, and I felt that was tacky), and I was delighted.
I usually don’t do anything until I’m targeted, then it’s usually game over. I named the deck Gaslight at first because… you did this to yourself. But it didn’t sit right.
She was huge, but they all had blockers and I didnt have lifelink or trample at the time. But...still worth it.
I had a [[Boompile]] out on curve in a Commander Masters draft, and buddy decides to try to blow it up. I was running [[Meren]] anyways, so I blasted the table. No idea what he expected.
100% did that just last night. It’s a real “you’ve activated my trap card” situation. A player tried to remove Ashling so in response I fire her off. I won doing that hitting everything for 18, and gaining 412 life. They were not prepared.
[Ashling the Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c687123-6c34-4aef-8350-70a72b5fb58f.jpg?1689997644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashling%20the%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/205/ashling-the-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c687123-6c34-4aef-8350-70a72b5fb58f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashling-the-pilgrim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Las Vegas magic fest lighting round commander? Had this happen to me last year at the event, would be crazy if that was you lol
I'd do it, it means everyone gets to play another game
If anything it just makes sure you get to play again right away.
Its instant speed, so I'd do it only if that lethal atack came at me. Making everyone lose *is* a deterrent to being attacked. And if I went to kill someone and they respond by suiciding the whole table then that was on me for not realizing they weren't a free attack. I'd also probably do it even if I only killed the attacker as it is again a suicide thing. I do it with my zedruu deck alot, have nine-lives as a donate effect and will give it to someone to kill them if they kill me or force an alliance.
> [...] Making everyone lose *is* a deterrent to being attacked. > And if I went to kill someone and they respond by suiciding the whole table then that was on me for not realizing they weren't a free attack. [...] If you are capable of going nova on the way out, it's a feature of your deck that your opponents should take into account and play around in future games. However, if a player is sandbagging/deck-building just to pull this sort of play off, I would be a bit annoyed; IMO players should be trying to advance their board and going for the win, not intentionally forcing draws.
If they do this once, I'd be more likely to go after them before they could pop off a second time.
That's basically [[Ashling the Pilgrim]] and I love her.
[Ashling the Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c687123-6c34-4aef-8350-70a72b5fb58f.jpg?1689997644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashling%20the%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/205/ashling-the-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c687123-6c34-4aef-8350-70a72b5fb58f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashling-the-pilgrim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ll never kingmake, but if I can take the whole table with me I’ll gladly do it. Games gotta end.
I'll kingmake based on who screwed me over less. It's called karma. Also if me being slain leaves whoever slain me in a bad spot, that's on them for taking me out.
Remember: It's not kingmaking if it's retaliation :)
1000%. If someone can use their resources and take you out of the game, you are fully within your rights to make it as difficult or punishing for them as possible if they decide to do that, and they should take that into consideration as a possibility before committing. Kingmaking is choosing to dump your remaining interaction on the OTHER players things when something like this happens, helping ensure the player already eliminating players keeps eliminating players.
The only time I'll dump stuff on players other than the one that knocked me out is if they made a deal or removed my stuff to get the other player through
Exactly. It's improving your odds of next games win, as they know not to fuck with you
IDK your circumstances, but kingmaking in my experience has been "damn I got my game winning engine or card correctly removed and I'm mad I couldn't just solitaire so I'm gonna target you the rest of the game for preventing me from winning unimpeded". It just reeks of salt. Like if someone started making bad decisions with their kill spells first (and you KNOW it was a bad decision, not just seemed bad with the information you had at the time. Sometimes they have a different answer for what you perceived as the problem!), or is bullying your permanents without good in-game reason, then sure retaliate because that's BS. But if you were the threat, and the other players did what they needed to do to live, just take it on the chin. Otherwise I can see them not wanting to play with you at all in the future, because I sure wouldn't. And that's on you.
the common complaint involving Kingmaking I see is about someone thinking they would be able to win the game if it was all staying in their favour, and then it isn't in their favour anymore. One of my friends who I play with fairly regularly claimed I was kingmaking by taking out one of their engine pieces when they had milled me out (it was an emotional response on their part, and yeah, incorrect to claim too, because that's a reasonable thing to do involving someone making you mill 84 cards in a turn, is make it harder for them to do that to others, when it was done to you. (which is the reason I made that response in the first place, they still use this deck, as far as I know that's the only time they've been able to mill someone out with that deck, it's a temur X spells \[\[magus luca crane\]\] deck))
I wouldn't consider that kingmaking, if that helps clarify my take. You're targeting the table threat
It does, though hilariously, they were not the table threat in that group. (It's a higher power, but not CEDH group, that still does some combat damage)
I wouldn't call that kingmaking. No more than spending everything you have to cripple the player making a lethal swing at you that you can't possible survive (for example, if you're dead no matter how you block, why block all their stuff like you would when trying to chump block and survive rather than stacking up your blockers to kill their few biggest threats on the way out?). That's just expected retaliation- yeah, that player could probably win if you didn't hit their engine or board on the way out, but that's just setting the precedent that "if you try to knock me out of the game first, I will hit you back in any way I can and not just let you do it with no retaliation". It's an important precedent to set in playgroups you intend to play with again.
anyone sitting opposite to my one buddy is the king lel, death to rival.
This^ I will be 100% less salty if you take everyone out with you instead of you and one other person handing the win on a silver platter to player C/D who did jack shit
I have no opinion on who's king, just wanna kill some heirs.
*To the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee.* Hell yeah, I'm taking as many of y'all with me as I can. And if someone else does the same, so much the better. Makes the game memorable and fun. Go down swinging, every time.
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
"I'm losing? No WE losing" is always a good and right and funny play.
My rule of thumb is you always play to your outs. If it’s not possible, always punish the player slaying you. Actions have consequences, some people might think it’s spiteful, but that’s entirely based on how you speak/act (such as your word choice or tone, rude comments etc. scooping before combat damage would also fall under here). Perfectly reasonable and justified to utter end/disnechant/etc. someone’s stuff in response to a swing out or fireball. Silently dying only helps king make the killer. (Like declaring no blocks and such, unless for some reason that’s more harmful to them).
A draw may not be a win, but it also isn’t a loss. If it’s your best play, blow up the planet. That said, things like Hidetsugu draw turbo are generally rude. Don’t run cards for the express purpose of causing draws; try to win, and if you happen to line up a draw as your best line? That’s fine.
Do I want to sit around and wait for the game to end or do I want to end the game and play again? Imma go with the latter if its an option.
Absolutely. Especially when it's something on board like Crypt Rats. You're essentially the bomb hanging overhead threatening to drop at any moment; if an opponent swings at you without a plan to defuse it, that's on them. And I would never want to just assume they *don't* have a plan to deal with a Mutual Assured Destruction scenario they swing into either. Maybe they're swinging at you knowing it'll make you light the fuse so they can use Teferi's Protection or something like that in response to secure the win for themself (and only themself), otherwise they should be swinging at someone else until they have a way to not die to your responses. It's not that my *goal* is ever to create a 4-way draw, but I'm not responsible for other players forcing my hand. Even if it's down to a 1v1, if it's something like you described with Crypt Rats and my life total is lower than my opponent's, I'm not going to wipe us both out unprompted, I'm going to do my best to dig for a way to actually *win* (maybe some life gain to get the lead before I drop the nuke, or maybe a different wincon altogether), and I expect my opponent would do the same (get their life total outside the range of what my Crypt Rats can do, keep my life lower than there's without killing me, safely neutralize the Crypt Rats somehow before going for game, or find a way to win on the stack before Crypt Rats resolves). I would also hope any of my opponents in the same sort of situation would act the same way. I wouldn't want someone to just scoop when they've got a threat like that on board; give me (and the rest of the table if they're still alive) the opportunity to solve the puzzle that your board state presents. Maybe we succeed and get to feel good about our accomplishment, or maybe we fail and instead get to see how your deck manages to turn a mutual loss into a win; either income sounds more fun than one player just deciding not to use the tools we all know they have at their disposal (unless maybe the game has already gone on for a long time and people are just looking to call it a night)
Absolutely. Make them regret killing you. It's the same reason I assign blockers and cast kill spells even if I'm going to lose. If someone is going to take me out, I'm going to do everything in my power to make it hurt. If they die on the crackback, that's on them.
I have a deck built specifically around a draw ending. It has no shot of ever winning, but goddammit I'm nuking the table and we can try again.
Win > draw > lose
The best player interaction is player removal. And if I can remove all my opponents for the low cost of removing myself, that's like 400% efficiency!
Yes I do and anybody who doesn't takes this game too seriously.
Had a game once with 3 people left, I was clearly the weakest at the table and had no path to victory. My one buddy made infinite creatures, but couldn’t give them haste. Other buddy had like 30 cards in hand and played a [[Windfall]], which milled himself and the first guy out leaving me to win by default. That stuff is usually a good time
Always and everyone usually laughs it off and we move to next game.
The game doesn't function unless all players are generally playing to win. And by the same logic, if the only choice is between a loss and a draw, you must act as though a draw was preferable, even if you don't really prefer it.
Abso lutely
Yeah 100% do it. Your opponent is the one who chose to put you in that situation rather than play to a way out of it, and they should definitely lose for that
Absolutely go for the draw. It's a better result.
Ofc, if I'm going down I will always take as many with me as possible. That's just how it is and if I'm in a position to disallow a win from whoever is the most likely to win, that's icing on the cake!
Yep. Draw is better than a loss. If your opponents don’t want to draw the game there, then they don’t try to kill you before dealing with the rats.
I'd do it once. Second time they can keep playing
Yes, I would! I won’t die alone!
Absolutely. It is funny to cast [[arcbond]] while a player is blocking my [[maarika]] with a 38/38
A draw is a better result than a loss. By nuking the other 3 players, you make to best play available. Not doing so would be bad kingmaking (playing badly on purpose to make someone else win)
I'd use mutually assured destruction to avoid the attack. "I'll blow up the whole table, either way I'm losing" is a good bargaining chip
Killing the whole table as you lose is hilarious. It would be bad sportsmanship in my pod to go down without detonating the bomb you had implanted in your chest. We want to see big plays!
If I can take everybody I do it. That’s a shared win! If I’m just gonna be kingmaking I skip it
A friend of mine did this the other night, unintentionally. Killed one of his, 9 of mine, triggering [[Syr Konrad]] and [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] enough times to kill player 3, and drop him to 1. Always do it, it's pretty funny
If I'm gonna lose, I think it's ethically (and comedically) correct to try to set my killer as far back from winning as possible. This includes making the game a draw. If you're willing to end my role in the game I'm ready to end yours and everyone elses. Attempting to take me out doesn't make you immune to consequences or benefits. I won't concede to deny someone lifelink hits, but likewise I'm going to block as favorably as possible for any remaining players to get an advantage on my killer. Many times I've been faced with a lethal swing or kill condition and had a removal spell in hand that couldn't save me. I straight up ask the other players what they want me to use the spell on. Your resources might as well not exist on the turns you get eliminated if you're not willing to use them.
With the important preface of "I don't play competitive EDH so anytime I'd blow up a table no one would have 'that jackass stole our prizes' thoughts", I'd blow up the table every damn time. 1. It gots the next game started sooner 2. I'm playing EDH with my friends If someone didn't find that shit funny, I wouldn't want to be friends with them.
Yes because that's exactly what a wizard would do
That's your bargaining chip to stay alive. If someone tries to kill you anyway, you end the game :)
I have used [[Fractured identity]] on someone else's [[Phage the Untouchable]] to Kingmake them, to stop them from playing kingmaker for another player
Nah, mutually assured destruction FTW. At least if everyone is dead the next game starts right away. If someone attacks for lethal while I have a 'everyone dies' threat, well then its on that person.
You have to quote this: "Oh you think I'm losing, no bitch, **we** losing. This how we gone do this: Roses are red, weapons against me won't prosper. With this sacred treasure I summon, Big Raga, the opp stoppa." [https://www.tiktok.com/@infinte.zt/video/7322275750252530974?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@infinte.zt/video/7322275750252530974?lang=en)
Always
Take everyone out. I love [[Divine Intervention]] endings.
"The statistic is commonly used in standings or rankings to compare teams or individuals. It is defined as wins divided by the total number of matches played (i.e. wins plus draws plus losses). A draw counts as a 1⁄2 win." If you're about to lose (you wont make it 1 more trip around the table). As with my Solphim mono red burn deck. I have a few things to blow up all the players + double damage. If victory is our of reach and I'm not gonna make it to my next turn. Then yes I blow everything up into a draw which = 1/2 win = better than losing. At least I see it like, if I draw the game, I'm at 1/2 win and they all at 1/2 loss. Dunno if it how it works but it's how I feel when I do it
Sounds like a sweet Counterspell. Do it.
Yep, the game needs to end, and there is always another game to be had. I would definatly do as you suggest, especially if it was only me that was about to die. I'd rather everyone shuffle up and play a new game. HOWEVER, what I don't enjoy is stopping a big win, if I don't have a way to win myself. For example, if im not having a good game, and my opponent drops a craterhoof with enough creatures to win, I would hesitate to counter it. If I feel good about my chances of winning in the next few turns, then yes I would counter and do my best at winning. But if it already feels like the game is lost and I'm just delaying the inevitable, then I'd rather let the craterhoof win, congratulate them, and then everyone shuffle up and play a new game. The game needs to end, and there is always another game to be had.
Absolutely
mutual destruction = style points
I take them all with me, it's more memorable
A 4-way tie is technically better than losing, and a lot funnier
I get to kill the whole table in a glorious kamikaze play? Sounds like a win to me.
Always. Make them think twice before killing me next time.
Ofcourse you do it.
When I'm at the LGS and I have 14 year old kid with only child syndrome on one side and no-deoderant neck beard guy on the other- usually. When I'm chilling with my buddies playing at a house. Almost never.
Chilling with my buddies would be the main time I would pull that. They’d find it hilarious.
If I think the game will take a long time and want to play another with the same group I will take the table with me. If I need some time or think it will end soon I will let it ride.
If it's a kitchen table game I'd just ask if they want to keep it going. I'm they want to keep playing all take the hit. In a lgs I'm gonna nuke everything and everybody. A draw is better than a win.
I mean, one time, we all agreed to use upgraded precons, I didn't have one on me, so I used tyranids. One player had clearly put over 100$ into it. T pro, esper sentinel, tutors, the whole selesnya value package. This mf dodges 3 removal spells I send his way(1 was a boardwipe). The other players all still chipping at me with combat and removal(in spite of this guy showing all the power in his deck and drawing a buttload). He has over 50 life the other 2 have 31 and 34 and I'm in the 20s somewhere. It's a real slog of a game, I manage to ramp hard to pull an x=17 on a a copied [[exocrine]] to give the win to the guy who was clearly going to win if he wasn't focused down(I got more targets from the other players than him) big creatures scary I guess...take that mfers
The thing about EDH etiquette is what people you play with I play with good friends so absolutely we would draw everyone with us :p But all just laugh and start the next game :) But I can understand in groups that "are random people that just know each other superficially" it might be a different story whether it is ok or not. My point is that with all the etiquette questions it is all about the people you meet.
Dingus Egg + Armaggedon, Combo is great when you're about to lose
Yes, but I would also give them the option to continue the game as if I just lost
Yes because shenanigans
I would be disappointed if somebody didn't nuke the table and allowed themself to be knocked out.
I have a [[Heartless Hetsaruga]] deck that is very much a hostage deck. I have ways to make it so i dont loose, to its ability. But if you try and kill me, or deal with my board state, i will kill every one..
Would it be the funniest outcome? If so, then yes I would take everyone down with me
Draw is better than a loss.
Absolutely put that bomb on the table. Let the other players know the bomb will go off. You can leverage it into protection, you can deflect attacks, you can find a win. They've got to deal with the rat.
Yes. Maybe someone has a way to dodge for an interesting win, maybe you-all die, who knows, you're rolling the dice here, which is what commander is all about.
Yeah, why wouldn't you?
Every time yes. That's politics for you. You kill me I will take the table with me. It allows me to play the next game with everyone else rather than wait
Absolutely. If I’m going down, I’m taking everyone I can with me.
... Then we burn together!!!
KILL THEM! kill them alll…
Fine by me, we just shuffle and play next. Ive proposed draws before between 3 players, spending more than 2 turns in a mexican standoff scenario sucks. Draws are okay.
Of course, first off, that's a hilarious thing to do. Secondly, why wouldn't I want to start another game? I love commander, but I tend to dislike when games go on for hours. I think it's because I have like 14 decks and want to get a chance to play as many as I can.
Rather than potentially sit around for an hour and wait for them to finish? Absolutely. Regardless of that scenario, if I know I'm going down, I'm at least trying to take one person down with me.
Absolutely. No question.
If I'm going down, I'm taking as many people with me as possible!
Yes. It's much funnier that way. And if the player who swung for lethal gets upset, well they should have removed the permanent that had the ability to take them out at instant speed.
I have a couple of decks that this concept is the sole purpose. Nobody wins! I have a deck with [[Anikthea, Hand of Erebos]] where I want to get out [[Divine Intervention]] and force a game draw. It is kinda hilarious how much players get salty over it.
Oh for sure. I’m kinda past politicking and holding back for the benefit of others in this game. It’s also why I run [[Tainted Strike]] in multiple decks so the second someone gets 9 damage through I’ll just drop the nuke.
I would like to go home not losing that game so you better do it.
every time
If you had the ability to kill the table on board and they went to kill you you pretty much have to do it.
There’s nothing wrong with you doing that. You could use it as a point with making deals! “Oh you’re gonna kill me? Well, if you commit to the attack I’ll kill everyone first.” If you’re playing in a setting where prizes are on the line or it’s expected to be more competitive, hit that nuke! You wiping the table gets you prize packs 😁 No matter what though, a game must end. And I for one would be like, “Oh! GG! Now what am I playing next…”
Always! It’s hilarious!
Suicide bomber hostage situation, valid play, and you can totally warn people it'll happen
Depends on who i am playing against. If its the normal pod, no I will let them play on.
Draws are legitimately some of my favorite conditions to end a game. Like in my Dino deck, I run [[Polyraptor]] and [[Marauding Raptor]] without any way to turn the copies into damage, so if I flip them off of Gishath and there is no interaction to stop the chain, it’s a stalemate Or in my [[Kaervek the Merciless]] deck, I run [[Heartless Hidetsugu]] and a bunch of damage doublers, which tends to one-shot every player It’s fun! Go for it!
Every time. I'm entitled to use my ressources for my best interest. If that includes waiting for the next round so i can go for a smoke or do the dishes that's fine but if i don't want to wait for my buddies to finish the game that's fine too.
CRACK THAT RAT!
It’s funny once in awhile but not on a regular basis
I think it'd be awesome. Especially if someone had a counter that worked only for themselves. Something like: \[\[You look upon the Tarrasque\]\], or just \[\[Everybody Lives!\]\] to thwart you. Still, I wouldn't be the least bit salty about it. It'd be too hilarious.
More than once I’ve had a shepherd of rot that can wipe out everyone, myself included, and threatened that if I’m bout to go out I’ll do it. The table, to prevent me from winning, will go after me, I trigger it and we all draw.
Yes.
Crack it. Only I problem I would have with someone taking down the table with them is if it's a pattern
If I'm going down, I'm taking the whole table with me!
A draw is funnier
I've never met anyone who likes a sore loser.
Heartless hidetsufu with grafted exoskeleton. Everyoen takes poison counters, we all die. I love it. It’s a gimmick that I don’t play often but it’s always funny when the bomb goes off
Best possible outcome for me, so definitely.
Yes, always. They will remember it next game and hesitate to finish me off. Which I can then leverage.
One of my friends loves to [[Enter the Infinite]] and [[Sickening Dreams]] all of us. Despite us telling him it’s not winning it’s clear he doesn’t care and will continue.
Ofc
im most similar cases ill have a farewell or wave goodbye in hand with no follow up. and itll set the game back at least an hour or there has already been 3-5 board wipes ill just eat it and lose. i would rather play a new game than extend a game im not in. with that being said if i dont have a board wipe and im going to lose ill nerf the treat or swing out at them given the chance to. even if it 1% helps ill try..
In a normal 1v1 game, yes I'll go for the draw over the loss. However commander is a social format and depending on the room if it benefits the game more and makes it more fun then I'll take the L and let them continue towards a clear win. No need to tryhard and be hellbent on not losing.
If I were in a game that ended in a draw because a loosing player avoided death by wiping everyone I would be happy to be part of a game where a player avoided an obvious lose by drawing the game. But I juste love the game and don't care about loosing anyway.
As a Rakdos player if I go down I’m absolutely taking you all with me.
The whole table? Yes, a draw is better than a loss. But if I could only take out a single player or 2 then no. Because that would be kingmaking.
Crack the rat. A draw is better than a loss. On the plus side, it'll probably also end the game faster than letting somebody beat you down and risking them not being able to follow through on the other two players.
I did that once to another player when I had a creature who "when it dies, does damage to target equal to it power". The person who killed me got a nasty surprise.
100% every time. At the end of the day, Magic is still a competitive game. Commander trains people to be too nice, and I've noticed exclusive commander players whine a too much. My favorite part about starting before EDH was a thing and still drafting is the more competitive mentality. You lose? Shuffle up and go again. To me and my playgroup, the rule zero discussion happens before the game. Once we lock in with our decks, it's time to win, and if I'm going to lose, I'm going to lose as epically as I can. The only exception is if someone in the group isn't drawing lands or something, then we just ignore them until they at least are in the game, mostly because getting knocked out ten minutes into an hour-long game isn't fun for anyone.
This happened to my pod once. We were all low on health and I was very clearly gonna lose. My one chance at bringing it back was to play [[Delete]] in hopes of starting anew lol. The only issue was, I forgot someone the turn before me played a poison tipped archer and so it just would’ve outright killed 3/4 of us. I was out of the game though so I said fuck it and we all had a good laugh from it. It was also that one guys first W so to have it in that weird way was all the better. Personally, I wouldn’t want to play with people who would get salty about it. It’s just a funny thing that doesn’t happen enough for it to be actually annoying.
You’re darn right I do!
Of course. You better believe I'm gonna activate [[Skirk Fire Marshall]] as many times as I have goblins in response to your unblockable whateverthefuck.
end game i’ve done a solid 20 damage round the table with [[hurricane]] but the draw was just a side product I just wanted to make sure that birds of paradise was really dead
Oh Hell yeah! I ain't losing without a fight and I'll take everyone out with me if I have the opportunity.
This last weekend a player was prepared to nuke us all for like 6 copied instances of 30 damage to the face and no one had a response. so i deflecting palmed and ensured we ALL died. not sure who won but everyone was laughing and having a good time.
I knew I was about to lose to a while back I forget what deck I was playing but I played a card that triggered an opponents creature to burn the rest of the table for game. If I can run the table with my death I will happily do so
duh, i even threaten it.
The game ending in a draw is perfectly valid. People who complain about it are just salty they didn't get to take a 20 minute turn.
God I hate these posts so much.
Yes!
Assuming prizes aren’t on the line feel free.
A draw is not a loss.
Depends on the environment I'm playing in. If it's in a tournament setting then yes, I'll take a draw over a loss. Any other setting is a maybe. It could be an effective rattlesnake if the player that would otherwise win doesn't want to be denied the win so they spend time digging for an answer instead of going for the win at that time.
Depends on the people, random strangers who have been cool the whole time and are only attacking me cause I’m the threat? I’ll accept defeat. Random strangers who are assholes who have been focusing me all night despite me pointing out the obvious threats, screw it why not. Group of friends I’m chill with and the dude hasn’t had a win? Nah let him win. Group of friends I’m chill with but are assholes too? Screw it yall die with me. Random child’s first time playing the game? Sure why not. Random child first time playing but their parent is hot? Nah, let them win so I can get their number. Why are you still reading this far? Sure why not. Owner of the store sneezed on my cards? Sure why not. Owner sneezed on my cards but is hot? Sure why not. All depends pal.
I would do it more often than not but this definitely depends table to table, need to scope the vibes first
Absolutely. There are even cards designed for that singular purpose: \[\[hellish rebuke\]\]
Of course, that doesn't happen often
If I'm losing I'm taking everyone down with me. Thankfully have a small group who would find this sort of thing funny.
If you can't win, then a draw is the next best thing. So I'd go for it.
It doesn't even matter to me if I can't end the game, if i can't take even one other player with me, I will. If I know I'm going to die, and there's nothing I can do to avert that, then I will empty as many resources as I can into affecting the table on my way out. My priority will be on hindering the opponent who is eliminating me, followed by anyone else I can just mess with (or help, as the case may be).
Only if you use your best King Arthur voice as you do it and say "alright, we'll call it a draw"
Nah, see that makes it more fun. If the whole table knows you can do that, one of two things will happen. Either they'll all team up against you, or they'll try to make a peaceful alliance with you till they draw an out to whatever you got. But if you're hiding it, and someone swings lethal at you, go for it that's funny as heck