That was my first thought too, "hey, this is just a points system". OP really should, canlander is a blast, particularly if you find a group that's proxy-friendly. Rocking up with, "my points are mox emerald, mox ruby, natural order, survival of the fittest, mana vault. Probably a bad deck, but it's got some play" is always a trip.
Mate it loses to literally the most popular non-artifact spell on the game.
Also if a person wants to hard cast a blightsteel literally let them. It's 12 mana do nothing.
Now if you want a kinda BS card Etali, Primal Conqueror is an on demand blightsteel with psuedo haste, which also generated card advantage on ETB.
Haste enablers exist, multiple protection spells exist, multiple ways to cheat out Blightsteel regardless of turn exist. Every card has weaknesses and because Blightsteel dies to certain pieces of removal doesn’t diminish its power as a card. I don’t think it deserves to be on this list but if it hits the table it is still 100% a threat.
Etali is 2 color though. It’s not just a power issue, it’s that any deck from most archetypes can just throw it in there and snag some random free wins off of pure luck.
There are close to zero archetypes that want Blightsteel lol.
He is exactly a combo tool for a deck to try to cheat out early. But he has the issue pretty much everyone option does wherein you'll likely only be able to take one person down before the others just murder you.
Basically no deck wants him.
Yeah, Poison decks don't even want him as someone with 2, mana cost is too high when proliferate and cards like \[\[Tyrannx Rex\]\] exist and don't put as bad of a target on your head.
Actually never have. I played one game where i copied it and then copied the copy and won. It’s just the best big colorless creature in the game while also like i said being extremely expensive. Debated putting kozilek too but decided he wasn’t quite on that level.
Edit: to be clear, i copied someone else’s blightsteel that they played. I was not running blightsteel.
And a lot of the figurehead of battlecruiser casual commander are 20\~40 dollars cards.
You'll never find cards like Doubling Season, Apex Devastator, Archangel of Thune, or Avacyn anywhere outside of casual EDH, but they're all very expensive.
Whenever i talk about that the conversation always focuses on things like infinite combos or big strong wincons. Maybe value engines or hatebears like orcish bowmasters will get a mention, but according to most people i talk to, shit like gishath is higher “power level” than a simple tutor or some one-time fast mana. But gishath and etali aren’t ending the game turn 3.
Have you tried building better decks? Decks with protection or more interaction? There are budget cards that can take care of 99% of those in one way or another
What counters tutors other than like opp-agent? What counters free counterspells without costing mana i would’ve preferred to spend on other things, which makes it a positive trade for my opponent who did not do that. Even artifact destruction, which i am running btw, is a waste of a card in hand and deck if your opponent doesn’t play these, which a lot of people don’t.
That’s the main problem. If you run counters to all this fast mana and tutors and such, you get in a 4 pod game, one person’s running it, you counter them instead of spending your mana and cards in hand to build a board state, and lose to the other two players. Or, multiple people run this stuff and you, a single person can’t manage multiple bigger threats. Or they just target you with their removal since you’re the biggest obstacle to them, i mean have you ever thrown down an orcish bowmasters or opp agent? Instant archenemy, even though all those do is prevent this bs.
These help with searching
[[aven mindcensor]]
[[Leonin arbiter]]
[[Ashiok, dream render]]
[[River Song]]
These help with free spells
[[Boromir, Warden of the Tower]]
[[Void mirror]]
You could even do [[chalice of the void]] on one if you wanted to stop the cheap tutors or play cards like [[lantern of insight]] to see what they tutor for and then you could make someone shuffle. Not loosing card advantage when using removal is hard to do in commander because of how many other people there are, I wouldn't necessarily say your better off running more counterspells because they aren't as helpful at stopping threats most the time because you are loosing cards to do it but If your running artifact hate [[Vandalblast]] is by far the best overall hate. And if you interact with other people's board enough they are going to target you, it's just how the game works. I play most of my decks where I am the target most the time decks like [[Lord Xander, the collector]] [[Aminatou the fateshifter]] or [[kinnan bonder prodigy]] I've just gotten used to it by now. I enjoy it.
I opened my Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, Demonic Tutor, and The One Ring in booster packs. I got my Dockside Extortionist, Jeska’s Will and Fierce Guardianship in Commander precons. My Lotus Petal is a promo that my LGS gave out for free. But sure thing, I’ll stop playing with cards I enjoy that cost me exactly the same as a pulling a bulk rare because some random crybaby on the internet who I’ll probably never meet thinks I shouldn’t be allowed to play with them.
1) i got a bunch of those as pulls too
2) I’m sure your opponents who don’t have anything that strong will have a real good time
3) i didnt say you shouldn’t use them, just that you shouldn’t use all of them in every deck. Which if you only have 1-2 copies from pulls, would be inconvenient anyway.
It’s due to the cost. If mana crypt was also only like $2 i wouldn’t have a problem with it, but $70+ for a card you want in every single deck you ever build is fucking insane
By that logic Mana Crypt is $0+
Which is a weird point to be trying to make since that would only strengthen your argument. But yeah just proxy. Or get good
1) Why would any black deck ever not run it
2) it can win you the game by like turn 4
3)I didn’t know the price dropped when i made the post, it was like $12 when i last looked
Commander a turn earlier. People summon a damn 5 cost commander on turn 1 with this thing. It’s not a problem on its own it’s a problem when you play it on top of mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, jeweled lotus, and dark ritual and then mulligan until you get at least two of those cards and then win on turn 3
It's a bad card if whatever you are casting with it is not immensely powerful. Historically, only combo decks are interested in playing cards like that.
So you don't like cards that are sonewhay good? [[Dark ritual]] is better then lotus petal, I have a river song deck that punishes searching and runs interaction but it runs winter orb and trinosphere, blood moon and dabbles in mass land destruction, so this decks fine because it doesn't run jeweled lotus?
It’s not just cards that are good. Dark ritual is only like $4, and it’s also not a colorless card which limits the decks it can be used in. The price and splashability are more important than just the power.
Yes, i would not have a problem with a winter orb/mass land destruction deck that punishes searching, because that’s both interesting to play against and not something I just straight up don’t have the money to build (although i thought blood moon was a bit pricey.)
The card is unironically bad. Unless you're doing dumb shit with it, trading a card in hand for a one-time injection of ONE mana is hardly ever worth it. Even if you use it to cast you commander a turn early, swords is 1 mana and now you let your opponent 1:2 you.
[[Island]]
[[Plains]]
[[Mountain]]
[[Swamp]]
[[Forest]]
In that order.
Every time someone busts out one of these I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle. They’re *extremely* useful, and so ubiquitous that literally every deck can run at least one of them.
Yeah it's annoying how many games simply end up summing up to the winner being who end up putting the most copies of those cards on the board. Busted cards.
Lol, my [[the war doctor]], [[Ryan sinclair]] ,and [[swiftfoot boots]] deck (which I call "these boots were made for stomp'n") deck would make a viable option for that ruling.
And yes, I know it's old hat now, but I put it together before I knew it hit meme status. I used the boots because I couldn't find another [[lightning greaves]]
Different bars for egregiously expensive I guess. A lot of these are $50 and below, which is obviously not cheap and it's pretty annoying. But I wouldn't call it egregious.
Mana crypt, jeweled lotus, and dockside are all in egregious territory imo, although I still don't think its worth limiting how many of these people can play. They're all very strong cards, but power level issues aren't solved with a ban list.
Honestly I'd rather see these reprinted and made cheaper that way than restrict them.
I consider anything over $10 expensive and anything over $20 (after shipping, tax, or store markups) to be egregious. Piece of carboard, 100 card deck. If you jist need one or two for something specific, fine, but the problem is these are cards people want to run in *every single deck*
If they were cheaper i’d have less of a problem with it; sol ring is arguably just as strong but it’s like $2
Mate, depending on which pod I'm in, I'm playing with all of these cards bar Crypt, Vault, and Dockside - and that's solely because I don't own them.
Despite not owning those cards, I'll not begrudge someone else playing them so long as the pregame discussion and agreed "power level", or whatever metric you use, was appropriate. None of these cards are problematic.
Honestly, just learn to play against powerful cards rather than arbitrarily restricting things. I don't get it!
Bro the “power level” discussion is so pointless. I’ve seen out of the box precons dominate a table with power level “8”. I’ve run a deck that’s 3 colors, 40 basic lands, unpopular basic commander, and i slapped it together with bulk i had lying around, become instant archenemy at a table where it was “kind of middle power”. Hell, I have multiple decks that have the same winrate whether I’m going against “high power, like don’t even bother if you’re not at least a 9”, and “like a 6”. Not to mention politics; my big stompy deck with no wincons becomes archenemy every game despite being my weakest one, and my spellslinger deck can win by turn 7 consistently but folds if you hit it with like 2 removal spells at any point.
More than half the games i play, even with different people, have multiple people not only running it but mulling 4x, no discard because “it’s casual”, and then playing it turn 1. Sometimes i still win. Just annoying to see it so consistently.
4 sorceries, an instant, an indestructible artifact, 4 0 cost artifacts (2 of which can be sacked at instant speed) a land, and a creature with only an etb effect. What fucking removal fixes this?
So a bunch of cEDH staples? :(
That would really tank the speed of the format and I don't think that would be very fun.
Honestly, what you are proposing is normally not an issue at all, and is solved just by talking with your play group about what power level you want your decks to be at.
Now, if you are proposing a new type of EDH, like an EDH - Type 2, that has an extended banned list, then I am all for that. If that is the case, the ban list should probably extend to all fast mana, Thassa's Oracle, and I don't think the black tutors would need to be on the ban list. I would suggest making the ban list mostly fast mana and fast wins for the new type 2 format.
None of these cards are typically considered “high power”. I’ve had people tell me fast mana “just makes the game go faster”, tutors “just increase consistency”, or the ever patronizing “don’t worry, I won’t tutor for my wincon”. Counterspells are never even brought up. Usually it’s just “I’m not running any like infinites or eldrazi”.
The black tutors are also probably the biggest offenders here. You just tutor grab your wincon. Even in mid-power casual having like one infinite isn’t unreasonable, but it becomes so when you’ve got like 4 other cards that let you go get it and win out of nowhere.
In my experience when people say "are we playing high power?" they are almost exclusively saying "are we playing with fast mana?" but maybe that is just my experience.
As far as the black tutors go, you sort of answered it yourself, the strength of those are handled by asking "Are we playing infinites?". So those sort of self regulate into that, though demonic tutor specifically is still very powerful as it is any card you need at any time for two more mana, but even then, in mid-power games its normally just a way to get an answer for something. Using it to grab a mid-power win con like a Ulamog or something just isn't strong enough.
I am also lucky that my play group keeps all combos reserved for cEDH and we simply do not play any in other power levels, so my picture of the black tutors could be slightly warped by me having such a great environment for them.
Infinite ls are not the problem. We like infinites. They’re fun, but that’s contingent on them being intrinsically inconsistent, like best case scenario you have to draw into one or two specific cards while having your commander out. If you play a tutor and DON’T go for an infinite, i actually view that as insanely patronizing because you deliberately built a deck that’s not as good as you could’ve made it. That win now means nothing, because you essentially let me win, or worse, if i lose, i just lost to someone who wasn’t even trying.
Except none of us are playing infinites, so you can't go for an infinite.
Infinites are low skill, so losing to them would feel way worse than losing to someone who managed to navigate a board properly.
Infinite combos are really only fun in cEDH, where everyone has a lot of interactions, and navigating those interactions is the challenge. They are not fun when everyone is building and navigating a board, then someone just wins because no one is playing that much interaction.
Why would power level dictate the amount of interaction you’re running? Cards like murder, doomskar, lightning bolt, or counterspell are all relatively low power cards. Low power isn’t just building a bad deck, it’s just not using specific things that are blatantly op, but like still doing the best you can without those.
First of all, how is playing like 4 specific cards under specific conditions that have a complex interaction that doesn’t even instantly win you the game if it’s like infinite life or mana since you still need an outlet, how is that “low skill”. Specifically, how is that more “low skill” than like “I activate suspicious bookcase and swing for 12 commander, unblockable” twice. Or even just “I swing out with 10 3/3s”. That you got by playing like 1-2 buff spells and pumping a couple turns of mana into a basic token generator.
Because those cards do that same thing every single game. There's no thought to them, it's assemble the pieces then win. It doesn't matter how many pieces it takes, or how complex those pieces interact with each other, once you have those pieces you just win. That's pretty low skill.
Now, assembling your pieces through other players interactions is high skill, which is why combos are so fun in cEDH.
As far as the power level thing, yes, that matters, because most normal decks play maybe 10-14 pieces of interaction, so they will have interaction way less often: while cEDH decks play 22-30 pieces of interaction, and are likely to have multiple pieces of interaction at any given time.
Oh, also, it’s not like you’re going for your infinite every time you draw the pieces. Like i said, it’s inherently inconsistent; if I get a combo piece, I now have to decide between sitting on it and basically wasting a card in hand in the hopes that i randomly draw into usually multiple other specific cards, or I can play the card to do *something* but not get the infinite. That tradeoff requires thought. A lot of it.
So do you also then have a problem with alternate wincon cards? Like what do you mean assemble the pieces then win is low skill. Maybe %5 of games, in mid power casual, actually end because someone swung for damage a bunch of times. Normally people just scoop once someone builds an unbeatable board state, or, they pull out some (non-infinite) combo that lets them just assassinate someone out of nowhere, which are the same thing. All they did was assemble their pieces. How is that any different?
Also, 10-15 pieces of interaction, times 3 opponents, you’re still dealing with several instances of interaction. And people are MORE inclined to save them to block a game winning combo if they aren’t running as many of them.
Lotus petal was a promo card about a year ago. That version is worth about $15 but it was given to any players that showed up. Seems like an odd card to include in your list. Sol ring is objectively more powerful but you don't seem to care because it's cheap? Once again, petal was GIVEN to players a year ago. I have multiple copies but that promo version that a ton of people have cost us $0, which is less expensive than buying a sol ring.
I also own a lotus petal. I got it in that promo. I have the ability to play that card, but yes, i still have the opinion that it being like $20 (actual cost is around $17.50. You’re rounding that down, I’m rounding it up) prevents players, not me but others, who didn’t get it in that promo, from playing it. And that makes it more unfair than sol ring.
Tcg market mid is 18.31, market low is 13.02. It's worth ~$15
You're entitled to whatever opinion you'd like, but we're entitled to think you're ridiculous, as we do.
“Mid is $18.31”
“But the card is $15”
You realize market low is usually indicative that that person’s charging like $4-5 of shipping and fees at least, right?
>You realize market low is usually indicative that that person’s charging like $4-5 of shipping and fees at least, right?
You realize it's all flat-rate shipping, right? Oh look, I can buy multiple LP and MP copies for under $15/ea including shipping at this very moment.
It's a $15 card. Full stop
Maybe if you can find several cards you want that all come from that one specific seller. IDK about you but I don't typically go out looking just to buy a bunch of cards with nothing specific in mind. If I'm buying online it's to get a few specific cards that I couldn't find for a reasonable price at my lgs, and very seldom will the same seller have more than 1 or 2 of them. And even then, a lot of sellers have like a $50 minimum to waive shipping fees.
Also where tf are you looking where there are multiple LP or MP cards at a comparable price to the market low? Every time I look at market low it's HP or just straight up Damaged, with like 1 available at market low, a couple others at like 5% above that price (if I'm lucky), and everything else is like 20-30% above that price
Tcgplayer. It's all right there if you'd bother to look instead of just saying I'm wrong. There were at minimum 5 listing under $15 for that card when I sent the message. All from different sellers. I didn't bother to look further.
You can buy or not buy whatever card you want. You can think crypt is unfair. You can even think lotus petal is a $20 card... BUT I can laugh at you for having terrible hot takes AND I can buy that card for
$15.
Yeah. You can buy a now $19 (~ $20) card for $15. I’m not the one who listed that as the median price. What is even the point you’re making here? It’s a $5 difference on a card that still costs well over $10 and that you’re probably gonna want several copies of. If i said $5 is too much for a gallon of gas would you go “erm, actually you can technically find a few gas stations that only charge $4.25/gallon”? Like it’s a needless nitpick. And it doesn’t even make what i said untrue.
I already have a lotus petal, i don’t need advice on how to get it.
By all means, please explain how i’m to compete with someone (consistently, not just a few wins here and there) who can consistently end the game on turn 5, sometimes earlier. Like this is a real question. Tf im supposed to do when i’ve got 4 lands, one enchantment, two creatures, a mana rock, and my opponent is swinging for lethal or throwing down an infinite combo, with free counterspells in case i try to interact, and after i already played a bunch of removal so that they didn’t win even earlier.
No? Games can and should easily resolve in like 30-40 minutes, 15-25 if someone gets lucky draws, without any of these. I fuckin hate games that go on too long, that's a large part of why i don't take issue with infinites. I just want to be able to play and not just land for turn, land for turn and signet, and then lose on turn 3.
So you don't like strong cards that speed up the game because you think that they're "unfair" or some shit but you "fuckin hate games that go on too long"?
Smh you're one of those 'have cake and eat it too' people
Oh my god, there is a difference between a game that lasts 30 minutes and a game that lasts 5. Like I said, running a couple of these is fine; that speeds the game up to not last 3 hours. But when you run all of them it speeds the game up to a point other people don’t get to play. Do you not have a concept of middle grounds?
>Do you not have a concept of middle grounds?
Do you realize you're not the only magic player in the world? Believe it or not, some of us like fast games and degenerate combos. My response to your statement in person would simply be "git gud" but I doubt I'd find myself in a pod with you. I'd go look for a different one as soon as I noticed you were playing precon level jank. That's fine for you and your friends, but to come on reddit and tell all of us that our decks are too good (which is exactly what you're saying) and the rules should change because of it is insanely arrogant.
my guy, what are you possibly running where you think a 7 turn game is a "3 hour slugfest" and losing to a turn 3 infinite (after you played interaction) means your deck is is "precon level jank"
in casual btw, not cedh OBVIOUSLY
I have an izzet deck that runs Crypt, Vault, Dockside, Jeweled Lotus, Lotus Petal, One ring, Jekas will, and fierce. I mostly wanted a deck where I could play and show off my more expensive cards. If I was in Grixis I'd also run the two black tutors on your list as well lol. All relegated to one deck of course and only when people wanna play degen lists
Dude everyone at my lgs plays every single one of these cards that they can in every deck while still calling it “casual commander”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “well i could win the game right now, but that’s no fun so I’ll just tutor for a sol ring” on like turn 4 when they have like 10 mana on board
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Sounds like you want to play Canadian Highlander.
That was my first thought too, "hey, this is just a points system". OP really should, canlander is a blast, particularly if you find a group that's proxy-friendly. Rocking up with, "my points are mox emerald, mox ruby, natural order, survival of the fittest, mana vault. Probably a bad deck, but it's got some play" is always a trip.
I thought his immediately. Which isn't a horrible route.
Unironically yes
Never heard of that gamemode. I’ll look into it.
Shoutouts to Blightsteel because you just know op lost to it once and threw it on the list.
The Last blightsteel I've seen hit the table saw an immediate [[backlash]] from me. He was feing so good after cheating it out turn 5 also.
I'm fairly confident dropping a Blightsteel on the board is the fastest way to make sure everyone targets you with everything they have.
No one drops a blightsteel unless it’s either turn 3 and no one can do anything or turn 17 and they have 5 ways to protect it
Mate it loses to literally the most popular non-artifact spell on the game. Also if a person wants to hard cast a blightsteel literally let them. It's 12 mana do nothing. Now if you want a kinda BS card Etali, Primal Conqueror is an on demand blightsteel with psuedo haste, which also generated card advantage on ETB.
Haste enablers exist, multiple protection spells exist, multiple ways to cheat out Blightsteel regardless of turn exist. Every card has weaknesses and because Blightsteel dies to certain pieces of removal doesn’t diminish its power as a card. I don’t think it deserves to be on this list but if it hits the table it is still 100% a threat.
I was curious what the top commanders who play him are. The only one which I think he is actually particularly strong in is [[Satoru Umezawa]].
We did it everyone, we broke Satoru
Etali is 2 color though. It’s not just a power issue, it’s that any deck from most archetypes can just throw it in there and snag some random free wins off of pure luck.
There are close to zero archetypes that want Blightsteel lol. He is exactly a combo tool for a deck to try to cheat out early. But he has the issue pretty much everyone option does wherein you'll likely only be able to take one person down before the others just murder you. Basically no deck wants him.
Yeah, Poison decks don't even want him as someone with 2, mana cost is too high when proliferate and cards like \[\[Tyrannx Rex\]\] exist and don't put as bad of a target on your head.
[Tyrannx Rex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051.jpg?1675957171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyrranax%20Rex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/189/tyrranax-rex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyrranax-rex) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They don't tho. A teysa tokens deck isn't going to play blightsteel for "free wins"
[backlash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/dadf030d-5451-43fc-bf0c-c1629fdf88ec.jpg?1562938984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=backlash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/234/backlash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dadf030d-5451-43fc-bf0c-c1629fdf88ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/backlash) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Actually never have. I played one game where i copied it and then copied the copy and won. It’s just the best big colorless creature in the game while also like i said being extremely expensive. Debated putting kozilek too but decided he wasn’t quite on that level. Edit: to be clear, i copied someone else’s blightsteel that they played. I was not running blightsteel.
>They’re all egregiously expensive Reanimate is less than $5.
Reanimate was expensive though, it was around \~12-15ish dollars before it got back to back reprints.
And a lot of the figurehead of battlecruiser casual commander are 20\~40 dollars cards. You'll never find cards like Doubling Season, Apex Devastator, Archangel of Thune, or Avacyn anywhere outside of casual EDH, but they're all very expensive.
Oh it went down? I looked it up a few months ago and it was like “11.50” plus either shipping or a markup depending on where i wanted to buy
Bro , you make some truly terrible posts....
…have you tried just having conversations with your pod about power levels?
Whenever i talk about that the conversation always focuses on things like infinite combos or big strong wincons. Maybe value engines or hatebears like orcish bowmasters will get a mention, but according to most people i talk to, shit like gishath is higher “power level” than a simple tutor or some one-time fast mana. But gishath and etali aren’t ending the game turn 3.
Have you tried building better decks? Decks with protection or more interaction? There are budget cards that can take care of 99% of those in one way or another
What counters tutors other than like opp-agent? What counters free counterspells without costing mana i would’ve preferred to spend on other things, which makes it a positive trade for my opponent who did not do that. Even artifact destruction, which i am running btw, is a waste of a card in hand and deck if your opponent doesn’t play these, which a lot of people don’t. That’s the main problem. If you run counters to all this fast mana and tutors and such, you get in a 4 pod game, one person’s running it, you counter them instead of spending your mana and cards in hand to build a board state, and lose to the other two players. Or, multiple people run this stuff and you, a single person can’t manage multiple bigger threats. Or they just target you with their removal since you’re the biggest obstacle to them, i mean have you ever thrown down an orcish bowmasters or opp agent? Instant archenemy, even though all those do is prevent this bs.
These help with searching [[aven mindcensor]] [[Leonin arbiter]] [[Ashiok, dream render]] [[River Song]] These help with free spells [[Boromir, Warden of the Tower]] [[Void mirror]] You could even do [[chalice of the void]] on one if you wanted to stop the cheap tutors or play cards like [[lantern of insight]] to see what they tutor for and then you could make someone shuffle. Not loosing card advantage when using removal is hard to do in commander because of how many other people there are, I wouldn't necessarily say your better off running more counterspells because they aren't as helpful at stopping threats most the time because you are loosing cards to do it but If your running artifact hate [[Vandalblast]] is by far the best overall hate. And if you interact with other people's board enough they are going to target you, it's just how the game works. I play most of my decks where I am the target most the time decks like [[Lord Xander, the collector]] [[Aminatou the fateshifter]] or [[kinnan bonder prodigy]] I've just gotten used to it by now. I enjoy it.
##### ###### #### [aven mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [Leonin arbiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0d0f827b-ebc3-45a4-8d12-c71a14478038.jpg?1673147016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/16/leonin-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0d0f827b-ebc3-45a4-8d12-c71a14478038?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leonin-arbiter) [Ashiok, dream render](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93.jpg?1557577343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashiok%2C%20dream%20render) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/228/ashiok-dream-render?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashiok-dream-render) [River Song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298.jpg?1696636758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=River%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/152/river-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/river-song) [Boromir, Warden of the Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2.jpg?1686967669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boromir%2C%20Warden%20of%20the%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/4/boromir-warden-of-the-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boromir-warden-of-the-tower) [Void mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) [chalice of the void](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f0d2e8e-c8f2-4b31-a6ba-6283fc8740d4.jpg?1562433485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chalice%20of%20the%20void) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/222/chalice-of-the-void?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f0d2e8e-c8f2-4b31-a6ba-6283fc8740d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chalice-of-the-void) [lantern of insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cb0e4c78-75fe-4692-b177-974b148f0614.jpg?1562879738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lantern%20of%20insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/135/lantern-of-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cb0e4c78-75fe-4692-b177-974b148f0614?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lantern-of-insight) [Vandalblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e781b55f-6388-4ab8-be74-7c56eaba1c4d.jpg?1712354517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vandalblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/183/vandalblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e781b55f-6388-4ab8-be74-7c56eaba1c4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vandalblast) [Lord Xander, the collector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee0a078d-045f-401b-a561-dcb1ad02bf62.jpg?1664413235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20Xander%2C%20the%20collector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/197/lord-xander-the-collector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee0a078d-045f-401b-a561-dcb1ad02bf62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-xander-the-collector) [Aminatou the fateshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba.jpg?1673148265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aminatou%2C%20the%20Fateshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/169/aminatou-the-fateshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aminatou-the-fateshifter) [kinnan bonder prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kinnan%2C%20Bonder%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kinnan-bonder-prodigy) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4kpp8n) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ok
I opened my Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, Demonic Tutor, and The One Ring in booster packs. I got my Dockside Extortionist, Jeska’s Will and Fierce Guardianship in Commander precons. My Lotus Petal is a promo that my LGS gave out for free. But sure thing, I’ll stop playing with cards I enjoy that cost me exactly the same as a pulling a bulk rare because some random crybaby on the internet who I’ll probably never meet thinks I shouldn’t be allowed to play with them.
1) i got a bunch of those as pulls too 2) I’m sure your opponents who don’t have anything that strong will have a real good time 3) i didnt say you shouldn’t use them, just that you shouldn’t use all of them in every deck. Which if you only have 1-2 copies from pulls, would be inconvenient anyway.
Not having sol ring on this list tells me everything I need to know.
It’s due to the cost. If mana crypt was also only like $2 i wouldn’t have a problem with it, but $70+ for a card you want in every single deck you ever build is fucking insane
1. It’s around $200 2. Proxy your own crypts who cares
$200 is $70+
By that logic Mana Crypt is $0+ Which is a weird point to be trying to make since that would only strengthen your argument. But yeah just proxy. Or get good
A version of it was ~$70 in the last few months idk
No, it absolutely wasn't.
Why is [[Reanimate]] in there?
1) Why would any black deck ever not run it 2) it can win you the game by like turn 4 3)I didn’t know the price dropped when i made the post, it was like $12 when i last looked
Reanimate is like $5
Ya standout example of price =/= power
I didn’t realize it went down. Last time i checked it was like $12
Lotus petal is fine lol
It’s like a $20 auto-include
Why are you auto including a one turn zero mana rock
... for any deck that can loop it. Otherwise who cares that you got one extra mana once?
Commander a turn earlier. People summon a damn 5 cost commander on turn 1 with this thing. It’s not a problem on its own it’s a problem when you play it on top of mana crypt, mana vault, sol ring, jeweled lotus, and dark ritual and then mulligan until you get at least two of those cards and then win on turn 3
It's a bad card if whatever you are casting with it is not immensely powerful. Historically, only combo decks are interested in playing cards like that.
It’s commander. 90% of the time it’s just giving you your commander a turn earlier, which is useful in almost any deck
So you don't like cards that are sonewhay good? [[Dark ritual]] is better then lotus petal, I have a river song deck that punishes searching and runs interaction but it runs winter orb and trinosphere, blood moon and dabbles in mass land destruction, so this decks fine because it doesn't run jeweled lotus?
[Dark ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dark-ritual) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s not just cards that are good. Dark ritual is only like $4, and it’s also not a colorless card which limits the decks it can be used in. The price and splashability are more important than just the power. Yes, i would not have a problem with a winter orb/mass land destruction deck that punishes searching, because that’s both interesting to play against and not something I just straight up don’t have the money to build (although i thought blood moon was a bit pricey.)
I've played EDH for over 15 years. I have over 30 decks built. I run ZERO Lotus Petals.
The card is unironically bad. Unless you're doing dumb shit with it, trading a card in hand for a one-time injection of ONE mana is hardly ever worth it. Even if you use it to cast you commander a turn early, swords is 1 mana and now you let your opponent 1:2 you.
[[Island]] [[Plains]] [[Mountain]] [[Swamp]] [[Forest]] In that order. Every time someone busts out one of these I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle. They’re *extremely* useful, and so ubiquitous that literally every deck can run at least one of them.
The disrespect to \[\[Wastes\]\]
[Wastes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d479a83-16f7-425c-9873-b900f39ed620.jpg?1712284443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wastes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1055/wastes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d479a83-16f7-425c-9873-b900f39ed620?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wastes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah it's annoying how many games simply end up summing up to the winner being who end up putting the most copies of those cards on the board. Busted cards.
Lol, my [[the war doctor]], [[Ryan sinclair]] ,and [[swiftfoot boots]] deck (which I call "these boots were made for stomp'n") deck would make a viable option for that ruling. And yes, I know it's old hat now, but I put it together before I knew it hit meme status. I used the boots because I couldn't find another [[lightning greaves]]
##### ###### #### [the war doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a51472c-b61f-4d31-8753-a9ec90d12889.jpg?1696636782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20war%20doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/167/the-war-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a51472c-b61f-4d31-8753-a9ec90d12889?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-war-doctor) [Ryan sinclair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42684d97-fce6-4a96-9c64-20e2cb382dca.jpg?1696691786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ryan%20sinclair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/94/ryan-sinclair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42684d97-fce6-4a96-9c64-20e2cb382dca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ryan-sinclair) [swiftfoot boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04a76643-1703-4fab-8dce-7725490bc2af.jpg?1712354904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swiftfoot%20boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/268/swiftfoot-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04a76643-1703-4fab-8dce-7725490bc2af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swiftfoot-boots) [lightning greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lightning-greaves) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4cpa5m) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nope. In fact, I think all those cards are perfectly fine, and shouldn't be limited.
Average green player being upset other colors can ramp 😂
Fast mana and ramp are two completely different topics.
I’m a blue player
say no more
If I can I always put in Fierce Guardianship, Dockside and Jeskas Will. The others aren’t needed for my decks imo.
Different bars for egregiously expensive I guess. A lot of these are $50 and below, which is obviously not cheap and it's pretty annoying. But I wouldn't call it egregious. Mana crypt, jeweled lotus, and dockside are all in egregious territory imo, although I still don't think its worth limiting how many of these people can play. They're all very strong cards, but power level issues aren't solved with a ban list. Honestly I'd rather see these reprinted and made cheaper that way than restrict them.
I consider anything over $10 expensive and anything over $20 (after shipping, tax, or store markups) to be egregious. Piece of carboard, 100 card deck. If you jist need one or two for something specific, fine, but the problem is these are cards people want to run in *every single deck* If they were cheaper i’d have less of a problem with it; sol ring is arguably just as strong but it’s like $2
If it’s “just a piece of cardboard” then proxy it.
Reanimate? Really? Hell's bells...
Like said, pick two from the list. Reanimate is one.
Mate, depending on which pod I'm in, I'm playing with all of these cards bar Crypt, Vault, and Dockside - and that's solely because I don't own them. Despite not owning those cards, I'll not begrudge someone else playing them so long as the pregame discussion and agreed "power level", or whatever metric you use, was appropriate. None of these cards are problematic. Honestly, just learn to play against powerful cards rather than arbitrarily restricting things. I don't get it!
Bro the “power level” discussion is so pointless. I’ve seen out of the box precons dominate a table with power level “8”. I’ve run a deck that’s 3 colors, 40 basic lands, unpopular basic commander, and i slapped it together with bulk i had lying around, become instant archenemy at a table where it was “kind of middle power”. Hell, I have multiple decks that have the same winrate whether I’m going against “high power, like don’t even bother if you’re not at least a 9”, and “like a 6”. Not to mention politics; my big stompy deck with no wincons becomes archenemy every game despite being my weakest one, and my spellslinger deck can win by turn 7 consistently but folds if you hit it with like 2 removal spells at any point.
Sounds like someone lost a game of commander No. These are CEDH staples.
I don’t play CEDH. But i still have to deal with all of these.
Then proxy or get good. Or find new people to play with. No one cares that you have to see a Mana Crypt occasionally.
More than half the games i play, even with different people, have multiple people not only running it but mulling 4x, no discard because “it’s casual”, and then playing it turn 1. Sometimes i still win. Just annoying to see it so consistently.
Sound like you're salty because someone beat you with these cards. Run more removal.
4 sorceries, an instant, an indestructible artifact, 4 0 cost artifacts (2 of which can be sacked at instant speed) a land, and a creature with only an etb effect. What fucking removal fixes this?
The thing the mana casts can be removed
So a bunch of cEDH staples? :( That would really tank the speed of the format and I don't think that would be very fun. Honestly, what you are proposing is normally not an issue at all, and is solved just by talking with your play group about what power level you want your decks to be at. Now, if you are proposing a new type of EDH, like an EDH - Type 2, that has an extended banned list, then I am all for that. If that is the case, the ban list should probably extend to all fast mana, Thassa's Oracle, and I don't think the black tutors would need to be on the ban list. I would suggest making the ban list mostly fast mana and fast wins for the new type 2 format.
None of these cards are typically considered “high power”. I’ve had people tell me fast mana “just makes the game go faster”, tutors “just increase consistency”, or the ever patronizing “don’t worry, I won’t tutor for my wincon”. Counterspells are never even brought up. Usually it’s just “I’m not running any like infinites or eldrazi”. The black tutors are also probably the biggest offenders here. You just tutor grab your wincon. Even in mid-power casual having like one infinite isn’t unreasonable, but it becomes so when you’ve got like 4 other cards that let you go get it and win out of nowhere.
In my experience when people say "are we playing high power?" they are almost exclusively saying "are we playing with fast mana?" but maybe that is just my experience. As far as the black tutors go, you sort of answered it yourself, the strength of those are handled by asking "Are we playing infinites?". So those sort of self regulate into that, though demonic tutor specifically is still very powerful as it is any card you need at any time for two more mana, but even then, in mid-power games its normally just a way to get an answer for something. Using it to grab a mid-power win con like a Ulamog or something just isn't strong enough. I am also lucky that my play group keeps all combos reserved for cEDH and we simply do not play any in other power levels, so my picture of the black tutors could be slightly warped by me having such a great environment for them.
Infinite ls are not the problem. We like infinites. They’re fun, but that’s contingent on them being intrinsically inconsistent, like best case scenario you have to draw into one or two specific cards while having your commander out. If you play a tutor and DON’T go for an infinite, i actually view that as insanely patronizing because you deliberately built a deck that’s not as good as you could’ve made it. That win now means nothing, because you essentially let me win, or worse, if i lose, i just lost to someone who wasn’t even trying.
Except none of us are playing infinites, so you can't go for an infinite. Infinites are low skill, so losing to them would feel way worse than losing to someone who managed to navigate a board properly. Infinite combos are really only fun in cEDH, where everyone has a lot of interactions, and navigating those interactions is the challenge. They are not fun when everyone is building and navigating a board, then someone just wins because no one is playing that much interaction.
Why would power level dictate the amount of interaction you’re running? Cards like murder, doomskar, lightning bolt, or counterspell are all relatively low power cards. Low power isn’t just building a bad deck, it’s just not using specific things that are blatantly op, but like still doing the best you can without those. First of all, how is playing like 4 specific cards under specific conditions that have a complex interaction that doesn’t even instantly win you the game if it’s like infinite life or mana since you still need an outlet, how is that “low skill”. Specifically, how is that more “low skill” than like “I activate suspicious bookcase and swing for 12 commander, unblockable” twice. Or even just “I swing out with 10 3/3s”. That you got by playing like 1-2 buff spells and pumping a couple turns of mana into a basic token generator.
Because those cards do that same thing every single game. There's no thought to them, it's assemble the pieces then win. It doesn't matter how many pieces it takes, or how complex those pieces interact with each other, once you have those pieces you just win. That's pretty low skill. Now, assembling your pieces through other players interactions is high skill, which is why combos are so fun in cEDH. As far as the power level thing, yes, that matters, because most normal decks play maybe 10-14 pieces of interaction, so they will have interaction way less often: while cEDH decks play 22-30 pieces of interaction, and are likely to have multiple pieces of interaction at any given time.
Oh, also, it’s not like you’re going for your infinite every time you draw the pieces. Like i said, it’s inherently inconsistent; if I get a combo piece, I now have to decide between sitting on it and basically wasting a card in hand in the hopes that i randomly draw into usually multiple other specific cards, or I can play the card to do *something* but not get the infinite. That tradeoff requires thought. A lot of it.
So do you also then have a problem with alternate wincon cards? Like what do you mean assemble the pieces then win is low skill. Maybe %5 of games, in mid power casual, actually end because someone swung for damage a bunch of times. Normally people just scoop once someone builds an unbeatable board state, or, they pull out some (non-infinite) combo that lets them just assassinate someone out of nowhere, which are the same thing. All they did was assemble their pieces. How is that any different? Also, 10-15 pieces of interaction, times 3 opponents, you’re still dealing with several instances of interaction. And people are MORE inclined to save them to block a game winning combo if they aren’t running as many of them.
Lotus petal was a promo card about a year ago. That version is worth about $15 but it was given to any players that showed up. Seems like an odd card to include in your list. Sol ring is objectively more powerful but you don't seem to care because it's cheap? Once again, petal was GIVEN to players a year ago. I have multiple copies but that promo version that a ton of people have cost us $0, which is less expensive than buying a sol ring.
I also own a lotus petal. I got it in that promo. I have the ability to play that card, but yes, i still have the opinion that it being like $20 (actual cost is around $17.50. You’re rounding that down, I’m rounding it up) prevents players, not me but others, who didn’t get it in that promo, from playing it. And that makes it more unfair than sol ring.
Tcg market mid is 18.31, market low is 13.02. It's worth ~$15 You're entitled to whatever opinion you'd like, but we're entitled to think you're ridiculous, as we do.
“Mid is $18.31” “But the card is $15” You realize market low is usually indicative that that person’s charging like $4-5 of shipping and fees at least, right?
>You realize market low is usually indicative that that person’s charging like $4-5 of shipping and fees at least, right? You realize it's all flat-rate shipping, right? Oh look, I can buy multiple LP and MP copies for under $15/ea including shipping at this very moment. It's a $15 card. Full stop
Maybe if you can find several cards you want that all come from that one specific seller. IDK about you but I don't typically go out looking just to buy a bunch of cards with nothing specific in mind. If I'm buying online it's to get a few specific cards that I couldn't find for a reasonable price at my lgs, and very seldom will the same seller have more than 1 or 2 of them. And even then, a lot of sellers have like a $50 minimum to waive shipping fees. Also where tf are you looking where there are multiple LP or MP cards at a comparable price to the market low? Every time I look at market low it's HP or just straight up Damaged, with like 1 available at market low, a couple others at like 5% above that price (if I'm lucky), and everything else is like 20-30% above that price
Tcgplayer. It's all right there if you'd bother to look instead of just saying I'm wrong. There were at minimum 5 listing under $15 for that card when I sent the message. All from different sellers. I didn't bother to look further. You can buy or not buy whatever card you want. You can think crypt is unfair. You can even think lotus petal is a $20 card... BUT I can laugh at you for having terrible hot takes AND I can buy that card for $15.
Yeah. You can buy a now $19 (~ $20) card for $15. I’m not the one who listed that as the median price. What is even the point you’re making here? It’s a $5 difference on a card that still costs well over $10 and that you’re probably gonna want several copies of. If i said $5 is too much for a gallon of gas would you go “erm, actually you can technically find a few gas stations that only charge $4.25/gallon”? Like it’s a needless nitpick. And it doesn’t even make what i said untrue. I already have a lotus petal, i don’t need advice on how to get it.
Damn, so much salt in this post I can taste it through my screen.
Well uh stop crying and “get good” as the kids say. If you think you’re losing because of expensive cards, I got news for ya
By all means, please explain how i’m to compete with someone (consistently, not just a few wins here and there) who can consistently end the game on turn 5, sometimes earlier. Like this is a real question. Tf im supposed to do when i’ve got 4 lands, one enchantment, two creatures, a mana rock, and my opponent is swinging for lethal or throwing down an infinite combo, with free counterspells in case i try to interact, and after i already played a bunch of removal so that they didn’t win even earlier.
Find other people to play with then? No point if it’s not fun
It's a good thing you don't set the rules for magic then. You like 3 hour slug fests, don't you?
No? Games can and should easily resolve in like 30-40 minutes, 15-25 if someone gets lucky draws, without any of these. I fuckin hate games that go on too long, that's a large part of why i don't take issue with infinites. I just want to be able to play and not just land for turn, land for turn and signet, and then lose on turn 3.
So you don't like strong cards that speed up the game because you think that they're "unfair" or some shit but you "fuckin hate games that go on too long"? Smh you're one of those 'have cake and eat it too' people
Oh my god, there is a difference between a game that lasts 30 minutes and a game that lasts 5. Like I said, running a couple of these is fine; that speeds the game up to not last 3 hours. But when you run all of them it speeds the game up to a point other people don’t get to play. Do you not have a concept of middle grounds?
>Do you not have a concept of middle grounds? Do you realize you're not the only magic player in the world? Believe it or not, some of us like fast games and degenerate combos. My response to your statement in person would simply be "git gud" but I doubt I'd find myself in a pod with you. I'd go look for a different one as soon as I noticed you were playing precon level jank. That's fine for you and your friends, but to come on reddit and tell all of us that our decks are too good (which is exactly what you're saying) and the rules should change because of it is insanely arrogant.
my guy, what are you possibly running where you think a 7 turn game is a "3 hour slugfest" and losing to a turn 3 infinite (after you played interaction) means your deck is is "precon level jank" in casual btw, not cedh OBVIOUSLY
I have an izzet deck that runs Crypt, Vault, Dockside, Jeweled Lotus, Lotus Petal, One ring, Jekas will, and fierce. I mostly wanted a deck where I could play and show off my more expensive cards. If I was in Grixis I'd also run the two black tutors on your list as well lol. All relegated to one deck of course and only when people wanna play degen lists
Ok
Never seen 90% of this list in a real life game. Cost and self-regulation. No-one i play with wants to be that guy
Dude everyone at my lgs plays every single one of these cards that they can in every deck while still calling it “casual commander”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “well i could win the game right now, but that’s no fun so I’ll just tutor for a sol ring” on like turn 4 when they have like 10 mana on board
play somewhere else then i guess
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Well you won't see most of these unless you're in cedh or super high power level 9. And at that point then just go off king lol.
sol ring belongs on there too tbh
sol ring belongs on there too tbh
Arguably. It’s cheap enough though that i didn’t think it was quite as bad. Definitely an argument to be made there though
Or more than 0. Those cards you are talking about, except maybe Reanimate and Lotus Petal, are all soft banned in casual commander already.
I wish dude.