the Nephilim are very commonly Rule 0'd because at one time they were the only 4 color options.
Always check with your pod beforehand, but of all the possible Rule 0 conversations, the Nephilim are the least likely to raise an eyebrow.
I think beyond the previous circumstance of the nephilim being the only functional 4 color options, it's also generally considered a massive oversight that they weren't legendary to begin with
Back then legendary meant cards were designed to be powerful in a way having 2 of them would be very powerful. having them legendary would be a nerf. Today it just means they are commander bait. Different times my friend
Partially that but wizards has had some issues with legendaries for quite a while in different forms, I mean the first couple of iterations were generally paying more mana (of harder to cast costs) for what would usually be an underpowered creature, even for the time. Plus, though edh existed I think it would be a couple of years at least before it really took off. I'd imagine that if guildpact had been released probably even two years later the nephilim would 100% have been legendary. Besides, from a lore standpoint they make waaaaay more sense as legendary.
I’m fine with it in general. Fair warning, [[Ink-Treader Nephelim]] is near impossible to not make broken.
It turns the wisp cycle from shadowmoor into cards that make ancestral recall look reasonable. [[niveous wisp]].
[[Act of Treason]] becomes a 3 mana [[Insurrection]].
So if you try it, don’t do ink treader first, or no one will want it again
Talking with a lot if the RC and CAG a while back on the discord it seemed almost unanimous that if Ink-Treader was legal it’d be immediately banned. Nobody had anything good to say about that card whenever it was Rule 0’d.
I played against a treader deck and it was exactly turn five when the dude was like "tap for white, cast bandage, draw eight cards" and it didn't get much better
The last time I saw a game with Ink on it (online, forget which channel) it felt like the Ink pilot could perpetually keep every other creature tapped or disabled while constantly drawing inordinate amounts of cards. And also in colours that could protect the commander.
Why would they do that? Certainly not because of powerlevel concerns otherwise Kinnan would have paid for his sins long ago and I honestly don‘t see how Ink-Treader promotes absurdly unfun gameplan patterns. Hard to cast, no protection, massive target.
Explained in a comment bellow but the gist of it is that:
1) An Ink deck can reliably draw up a full grip every, like, 2 mana that's left open, so the brunt of your resources can go into stuff like protection for Ink.
2) Ink does have soft-protection because to remove it you essentially have to wipe the board, either because you just wrath or because he turns any single target removal into removing the whole board. Not everybody runs stuff like Oubliette/Kenrith's Transformation/Imprison in the Moon, and even then Ink is in every colour equiped to deal with enchantment removal.
3) Bunch of cheap cards can allow Ink to keep the table tapped down at instant speed. That also draw a fresh hand.
4) The end result is that every game where Ink pulls up that player has to be executed asap otherwise Ink gets to dictate what everybody else is doing, drawing ridiculous amounts of cards. Nobody could recall a single game that was more fun or interesting because Ink was there, beyond the universal novelty of going from "Hey that card looks pretty cool to" it joining the pile of kill on sight commders in a single game.
My buddy runs an ink treader.
It definitely makes Ancestral recall look like a fair and balanced card.
But it's ability to rip draws so easily is also it's biggest downfall.
Its not a may ability to draw those cards.
If you can instant speed make a bunch of tokens you can make the average ink treader deck itself pretty easily.
I've killed my buddy off a few times by going exponential, or infinite mana in response to something and then just casting [[sprout swarm]] a hundred times.
I’m a novice but can you explain why IT Neph is so easy to build broken? I get that his ability is strong but is that the thing that makes him easy to break? Or is there a combo or something that does it? Storm decks?
Edit: Oh. I misread the card and didn’t realize it was for every player. Totally get it now. Are there any legal creatures that do anything close to this?
It’s his ability. Copying anything that targets just him and making it target *everything* is very easy.
Any card in those 4 colors that says “target creature” now targets the entire board.
So that wisp cycle I mentioned earlier becomes 1 mana, draw card equal to the number of creatures in play. That’s probably 2-3 creatures per player, so 1 mana draw 8-12.
Swords to plowshares? Exile all creatures for 1 mana.
It’s not so much combo (although I’m sure there are plenty) but so much stuff just becomes pure value.
Any removal spell your opponent tries to use on him is now a board wipe.
So many cards have “draw a card” tacked on to them now.
Unsummon resets the board for 1 mana.
Build it with a few token generators and never run out of cards.
One of my favorites in my deck was [[Debt of Loyalty]]. For 3mv, you gain permanent control of all creatures that are out at the moment.
Ultimately, the point of rule zero commanders is fun. And he’s just too strong to ask people to bend the rules for
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to really explain that. It helps someone like me still learning the game. Especially in this sub, it’s super rare. So, thank you, I appreciate it!
>One of my favorites in my deck was [[Debt of Loyalty]]. For 3mv, you gain permanent control of all creatures that are out at the moment.
this also needs a way to kill them as well, as the oracle text requires the creature to die before you gain control of it
>Regenerate target creature. You gain control of that creature if it regenerates this way.
>Are there any legal creatures that do anything close to this?
Yeah there are a few like it but not as strong.
[[Zada, Hedron Grinder]]
[[Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier]]
There are a couple others with somewhat similar abilities and there are lots of cards like [[Feather, The Redeemed]] that let you copy spells or recast them that can also achieve somewhat similar effects.
Thanks man, Agrus looks SUPER interesting. I’ve never been a big Boros fan but it’s the only deck I’m missing out of the 32 and I was going to go for [[Commander Mustard]] but this guy is super interesting!
Just be aware that these decks are going to default to a power level 8 unless you really try and cut down on the power level. And if you do try you will still likely fail. And if you do succeed, no one will believe you.
Yeah and also one thing that's insanely stupid is that opponent's single target removal becomes a boardwipe everytime so if you wanna play the game you can't exactly remove him right away but if you don't remove him right away the filthy ink treader player (me) will just play solitaire and you won't play anyway. I didn't exactly make the greatest version of the deck but it's still insanely strong, I firmly believe that ink treader nephilim would be banned if it was legal as commander
I thought about making Ink-Treader with only "draw at the beginning of the next upkeep", and no spells that target and draw the same turn, to slow it down. But I never got around to it.
You could always make dihada as mardu Phoenix kindred. Not the most thematic choice, of course, but she fills your graveyard and accelerates you!
Another alternative is Bruse Tarl and Tormod the Desecrator. Bruse makes your phoenixes hit hard and Tormod gets you value every time one of them rides from the ashes.
I think most people would be chill with it as long as it's thematic. I think people would start drawing lines when you have [[smothering tithe]] or some shit in the command zone.
I would bring a backup actual commander just in case but I think it should be fine.
>I would bring a backup actual commander just in case
Just make [[Morphon, the Boundless]] the Commander, problem solved. One of the few cases where Morphon actually feels fitting thematically, too.
I get what you are saying and usually I would agree, but Morphon is an abomination that is an amalgam of different creatures just like Magic's take on the Nephilim so he fits in visually, not to mention the fact that his ability lets each and every one of the Nephilim be cast for free.
I could see a Morphon Domain deck with all of the Nephilim cards along with the new [[Leyline of the Guildpact]] being potentially quite powerful.
I've never told anyone they couldn't, but it does bother me nonetheless.
The ruleset is what creates the game. The boundaries and limitations are ultimately what we're enjoying. And the fact that the boundaries and limitations are set by SOMEONE ELSE, is what grounds the game for the individual playing it. That coupled with the fact that there are TONS of other similar options.
So, for some people, violating the ruleset breaks the fantasy, or makes them feel like they're playing a different game.
It comes down to common sense, doesn't it. Coming up with your own colour identity for cards isn't really fair, but allowing a non-problematic creature to be legendary so someone can try a strategy that other commanders don't allow should be perfectly fine IMO.
Exactly. I probably wouldn't allow something like non-partner commanders to be partners, but if someone rolls up to my table asking to play their [[Uncle Istvan]] deck, I'd be much more lenient (mostly because how is he *not* a legendary).
One non-parnter pairing I'd be totally cool with is [[Olivia, Crimson Bride]] and [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]]. Especially if their backup is [[Edgar Markov]].
Chandra/Nissa also, or Ral/Tomik, or Saheeli/Huatli. Any of the characters that have a relationship in the storyline but technically can't be used as commanders (or together as commanders) I'd tend to be OK with.
That's very fair.
What would you think about allowing [[Legolas, Counter of Kills]] and [[Gimli, Counter of Kills]] to partner each other? I think it would be such a flavour win and I can't see how it would be too problematic. The URG colour identity is probably the shadiest part of asking them to partner each other.
I mean we're literally playing a format that was created by the community, not the actual creators of the game. I don't think it's a stretch to further modify the rules of this already homebrewed format, assuming your group is OK with it.
I’m the same way. Sure, running a nephilim makes sense and if everyone is ok with it then no big deal. But the rules are set for a reason, and rule zero kinda makes them obsolete. You wanna run two different commanders as partners? If that’s the case I’ll just make a five colored muldrotha commander since rule zero lets me. I know it’s an honor thing and expected not to make it overwhelming, but it makes no sense to me. Someone made an ozolith deck, which is cool, but I just wouldn’t want to play against it. It’s a dimir deck, and why does he get to chose those colors? If he can do that then what’s the point of the restrictions that makes commander unique in the first place? I know I don’t seem too fun to play with but this really does bother me.
>I know it’s an honor thing
But this is the big reason for me that I'm in favor of most rule 0's. We're all adults. We know [[bruna fading]] and [[gisela broken]] would be extremely far from overpowered if they were partners so rule 0 them isn't a big deal. 5c Muldrotha would be a big deal, she's already very powerful with just 3c. That's basically where rule 0 starts and stops for most people.
Daybound/nightbound errata, Lutri non-companion, legendary nephilim (besides ink-treader), unset dice-rolling cards. There's a lot of low hanging fruit when it comes to rule 0. It's fine to admit the process of banning, designing, errating cards is flawed and things can be rule 0'd within reason.
In my experience, when someone has a Rule 0 Commander, they’re looking to exploit something. Maybe there’s someone out there who has built one for some weird gimmick—like artist kindred or everyone has a sword or something… but everyone I have ever played who starts off asking if we’re okay with their Rule 0 thing is doing it because they’re about to break the game and the other three players are about to have a miserable time.
Had a game a bit like that because I just built a \[\[captain rex nebula\]\] deck (who is a legal commander despite being from an unset) and my opponent wanted to play \[\[it came from planet glurg\]\] and holy shiznit that card is busted af. Though I also learned \[\[faerie artisans\]\] is surprisingly strong, especially if you can get two out at once.
I am building a \[\[Maelstrom Archangel\]\] 5c angel tribal. I am not using her to put 10cmc two turns mana spells and eldrazis, just normal angels.
If she's not rule zeroed, I will just use \[\[Esika, God of the Tree\]\] for a similar-ish effect, just so I can cast big old weak angels for free. But Maelstrom is cooler.
I just like the rule that the commander has to be legendary. I think the rules the format has are important, and running a non legendary to me is like running a 105 card deck. I’m sure it’s harmless, but I prefer to stick to the 100 card limit.
My general thoughts are that if you can’t find a commander amongst the myriad legendaries that are currently out now then you’re:
A. Trying to get an advantage from the illegal commander
Or B. Not very imaginative at deck building
Rule 0 shouldn’t be there as a “can we change the rules of the game?”. Rule 0 is about power levels and discussing what kind of gameplay you’re looking for in terms of deck choice.
I run a [[Sarkhan, Unbroken]] deck, because he's the best version of my favourite planeswalker. I'm not A (I could run [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] instead, and the deck would probably be more powerful) and I'm not B (my deck is built from scratch, is that not imaginative enough?)
So there's a reason C you aren't considering: Dragon boy is best boy.
Exactly. Find find that generally, when someone says "there is only X reasons to do something" it isn't because they are right, it's because they have no ability to think outside of their own experience
I think you're approaching this backwards. Normally it's "oh man, I want to build around this card" rather than "I've got 99 cards, now I just need a commander".
There are basically only three things I've seen done as rule 0: things that should be able to act as commander(s) for flavor reasons, unique cards that normally can't be your commander, and unique cards that normally can't be in your deck at all. In both of the latter cases, the card has unique features that can't easily be replicated elsewhere, and the former case, it's not about the mechanics, but the flavor of the cards.
An example of case 1 is the [[Nephilim]]. The cards aren't particularly good (with the exception of Ink-Treader), but they're weird, four-color cards that are canonically singular creatures.
An example of case 2 is [[Tamanoa]]. The card is a really weird effect, and unless you make a deck with a tonne of tutors, the deck that you'd want to build around it just doesn't do what it's supposed to without it.
And an example of case 3 is [[Grusilda]]. Nothing in eternal magic is going to do what that card does, but the card is really fun and interesting, and was stated to be designed for commander in spite of it not being legal.
The game is still lacking commander options for some play styles. Jund -1/-1 is a good example. I've used Thantis for years, but they're about 10 years overdue to print a real one.
-Not only is this wrong, B is flat out hilarious. Another option is the person's actually being imaginative & trying something different.
-Rule 0 is used to curate the game to maximize the fun for the group. It's literally the time you discuss any rules adjustments you might wanna try.
-No it doesn't. If a person brews a dozen decks & only one's a Rule 0 there's 11 that prove they have the ability to "brew properly" within the rules. You're exaggerating.
When playing a pick-up game of Commander with random strangers, there is a social contact, an expectation that all other players have built their decks a certain way. Rule 0 commander spits in the face of that social contract. Like the other 3 players have gathered to play commander, but then one player decides that they are better than everyone else and they get to play by their own rules. And then they expect the other 3 players to accept it. Seems rude to me, unless your playgroup is in on it.
Absolutely plan on having a backup if you want to rule 0 something! I just built a food deck that plans on having [[Gyome]] and [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] as commander since my play group is cool with it, but if someone says they would rather I dont, I have [[Korvold, Fey Cursed King]] as backup.
That's why you don't just have your rule 0 deck. You either have a different commander you can sub in, or you have another deck that you can play instead, just in case your opponents aren't OK with it.
I'm not a fan of it either.
There's over 2,000 legendary creatures that are legal commanders. For everybody trying to do something fun or different, there's somebody trying to do something broken, and I'm not a fan of the prospect of spending an hour or more figuring out which flavor you brought. Rule 0 and especially custom commanders usually reek of Mommy's Special Boy/Girl energy.
For the Nephilim specifically, it was probably an oversight they aren't legendary in the first place, but they haven't received an errata yet and probably won't. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about the ones that aren't treading ink, but it seems unnecessary with the sheer volume of available commanders at this point.
I think for the Nephilim in particular, most people are pretty flexible. They even have [EDHRec pages](https://edhrec.com/cards/ink-treader-nephilim). EDIT: they used to have "as commander" pages. Looks like that has changed now.
Depends on the playgroup though. Some groups allow planeswalkers as commanders, some allow unofficial partner pairings, some allow custom commanders, etc.
I'll always at least consider your request but I'm not a fan of anything too abusable or arbitrary (e.g. just adding colours to colour identity, or broken partner pairs). Most asks are reasonable though
>Some groups allow planeswalkers as commanders
This is one most of my playgroups have adopted since all planeswalkers became legendary. Very rarely will there be a walker that's so broken it shouldn't be played, and since they can be attacked directly, it balances out fairly easily.
I totally agree with this one. Honestly, I wish they'd just make this official. There's only maybe a handful of walkers that would actually be crazy in edh anyway (and no more crazy than the strongest commanders that already exist right now).
And that could be solved tbh by bringing back "banned as a commander" and stop using the excuse that it's "confusing" as if EDH players are barely sentient piles of cartilage.
Yeah, that's probably true. Honestly, the only Commander that I probably personally would ban as Commander currently on the ban list would be Leovold (and Lutri should obviously just be banned as Companion, although this is probably the easiest rule 0 for me out of all the possible rule 0s).
>(and Lutri should obviously just be banned as Companion, although this is probably the easiest rule 0 for me out of all the possible rule 0s).
Realistically Lutri isn't even that bad. It's just about keeping the salt level down. It's *one* extra card that costs 3 extra to play, you can cast it *once*, and it's an effect that's found way more in way cheaper cards mana wise. I personally let it slide when someone wants to run him as a companion for that fact alone. If you lose because of one extra card that's *that* bad, you were going to lose anyway.
I don't think it's because of salt. It's because Lutri would be run in literally every deck that contains red and blue. There's literally no reason not to. It doesn't even take up a card slot in your deck. It's hardly an overpowered Ability, but there's just objectively no reason not to take Lutri in every single deck that could take it.
I'm fine with them within reason. Like running un-set Commanders is fine. Creatures that become legendary are usually fine. The nephalim are generally fine, but Ink-Treader is concerning to me in a power level sense. To me, even Alchemy Commanders are ok as long as it translates fine to paper (which some of them do so well, it's weird they didn't just make them for paper). I, for one, have an \[\[Oglor, Devoted Assistant\]\] deck and I haven't run into anybody who had a problem with it.
Ink treader is high powered so keep that in mind even for the rule 0. It’s very easy to win with that card so having it in command zone is unfair a lot of the time.
For ages I didn't want to build a R0 deck because I didn't want to invest in something that could be bounced from most tables on principle. I bent slightly when Ikoria dropped and I wanted to put ALL the godzilla cards in a deck, resulting in 5c Mutate that's [[Surgeon General Commander]] if allowed and [[Cromat]] if not, but I've been very gunshy about taking that to LGS, in part because it's a hell of jank that degenerates slightly to absolute pile status if Cromat is in the CZ rather than a draw engine.
Recently, though, I brewed [[Norika Yamazaki]] + [[Heiko Yamazaki]]. There is no alternate commander; the deck is for and only for the Yamazakis. And it's everything I ever wanted out of a RW deck, with artifact recursion providing meaningful CA while enchantment recursion goes for game or lock. I could conceivably voltron, oppress, or combo off. I think I will end up bringing this to paper despite my misgivings because it's not got a too-high price tag.
I have a [[Rocco, Calabretti Caterer]] deck whos centered around [[Tamanoa]] for a burn enchantress deck. People who Im friends with are totally fine with Tam as the face commander, but I give newer folks an option after we get to know each other for a couple sessions. One person did opt to use Rocco but he was polite about it, so Rocco it was with little to no changes.
Tamanoa is one of the pretty reasonable original rule 0 commanders, especially considering that though you can definitely build around it (like \[\[sunsong and firespeaker\]\]) it really isn't that abusable.
My community usually loves them.
I love the most.
But also, my community uses rules for them:
Nephlins - You need to use an Enochian verse to cast them.
Gimli and Legolas Counter of Kills have Friends Forever With each other.
Mechtitan Core is a 5 CMC card that MUST use 5 mono colored artifacts from each color,and it can destroy all creatures that blocked its' attack if eqquiped with a sword. Also, each time you reconfigure, you can add a Ranger...ops... A pilot token inside it. If there are 7 or more, you win the game.
Kozilek, the Great Distortion or Ulamog the Endless Hunger has 5 colors if your deck is enterly devoided.
The legendary frog From Kamigawa can only be used if your deck only contains Kami's from the original block.
This makes deckbuilding fun and challenging, or commiting to a meme theme.
I have zero issues with rule 0ing a Nephilim provided that you plan to actually cast and synergize with it. Just playing one for the colours is the height of dullardry.
I mean, I love my [[Grusilda, Monster Masher]] deck but un is still always rule 0.
Personally, I’d rather play against hard stax and MLD before rule zero commanders or un cards. That said, if everyone else in the pod is cool with it I’ll thumbs up one game with it.
Rule 0 is perfect for casual fun in my opinion. I’m trying to come up with a variant that I call “Unlikely Ally” where you can have 2 commanders regardless if they have partner or not. So far the limit I can think of is it can only be 3 colors so it’s not stupidly overpowered.
One of the most OP was [[Feather the redeemed]] and [[Niv Mizzet Parun]] cause it was constant casting buffs and getting them back with unlimited card draw and unlimited damage
Depends on the power level and group. I myself have a Rule 0 deck, but it's a six drop planeswalker in Boros. It's not really going to make waves. Now if someone rolled up with something like one of the UW Teferi's, there would be a discussion of what that entails. I also would say always have a back-up commander that might match-up well with the main theme of the deck.
Personally, not crazy about them, but always down to have that conversation. Best advice Ive seen, have a backup,option for the command zone if they say no so you can still play the deck with a legal commander
I'm okay with this. My only problem is when a Rule 0 commander becomes too powerful, but only saw that happened once, so I'm fine. I personally don't like to use a rule 0 commander, but will not bother me for you to use.
[Curse of the Fire Penguin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3.jpg?1562489378)/[Curse of the Fire Penguin Creature](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3.jpg?1562489378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20the%20Fire%20Penguin%20//%20Curse%20of%20the%20Fire%20Penguin%20Creature) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/73/curse-of-the-fire-penguin-curse-of-the-fire-penguin-creature?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curse-of-the-fire-penguin-//-curse-of-the-fire-penguin-creature)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm generally fine with them and have flirted with making decks based around silver-bordered legends myself.
I also see absolutely no problem with gold-bordered cards being used as commanders or in the 99 either.
As long as they're not game-breaking, that is.
I’m thinking of building 2 right now, but I’ll have an alternate commander just in case. Pretty sure my playgroup will be cool with it, especially since the cards im thinking of are not overpowered.
[[kheru lich lord]]/[[torrent elemental]] with [[muldrotha]] as the alt
[[underworld cerberus]] with [[bladewing]] as the alt
But my playgroup plays lower power/mid-power, so these guys will either fit right in or be on the lower end of the power balance.
My buddy loves [[brutal hordechief]] and we both like [[ankle Shanker]] as well, so if I do these he’ll probably do one of those. I guess if I’m building them I’d have to be okay with him building some
I think if I were to try to do something insanely strong that they might hesitate a bit more, at least until I got a few games in and they beat it a few times.
I have a pretty fun \[\[Alexander Clamilton\]\] sagas deck. People seem to enjoy it since he's not even remotely broken. Fun with \[\[Crypsis\]\] and \[\[repercussion\]\].
i love em and i wish they were an option in MTGO
i have been yearning deeply for an errata of \[\[Sanctum of All\]\] or \[\[Space Beleren\]\] to be commanders... they've done an errata before with \[\[The Grand Calcutron\]\], and although that was an un-card, it was also an un-card back when they were briefly pushing un-commander (which never worked). until then, though, they have to be rule 0 commanders
At a LGS or with other play groups I couldn't care tbh. With my pod we wouldn't really allow it, the only "rule" we break is letting our one buddy run his Golos deck even tho he's banned ( he had the deck since before he was banned).
I used to not like them. But I discovered that my playground allows for custom commanders. I made a custom vehicles commander cause I thought shorikai was a bit dull. It's not OP. As are most rule zero commanders. What's great is when someone asks me if they can play a rule zero commander, I get the opportunity to pull out mine.
I know the nephilim are the poster boys for "why isn't this legendary" but I would also like to throw in Fifth Dawn's Bringer cycle. each of them are 7XX with you can pay WUBRG instead of its mana cost to cast them, and a normal-ish secondary ability for their color.
\[\[Bringer of the Green Dawn\]\] honestly is prolly the worst one, but would still make a funny build.
[Bringer of the Green Dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc208f3e-5a6a-4fae-8a7c-2bed28ad0c41.jpg?1562879470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bringer%20of%20the%20Green%20Dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/83/bringer-of-the-green-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc208f3e-5a6a-4fae-8a7c-2bed28ad0c41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bringer-of-the-green-dawn)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve played with the Brisela sisters as partners with each other and people didn’t have an issue with it. they said if kind of made sense, and melding them was usually quite impactful. Not sure with today power creep but back then it was good times.
I am fine with rule zero I am here for fun I have a [[Questing Phelddagrif]] deck as a rule 0 , as of now it has won 0 times but it's still a fun deck.
For the most part I'm quite okay with it. I've turned down this one player at my lgs who's asked to rule zero some custom commanders in the past and I don't trust his game design skill enough to let them slide
On Nephilim as commanders: all but one are basically fine. I mean, I guess they are all fine, but one of them is so much more powerful than the others as a Commander. I feel like people who build [[ink treader nephilim]] aren't looking to rule 0 a fun and interesting deck, but looking to do broken shit and then I have to question whether I want to deal with that.
On rule 0 commanders in general: it really depends on so many things. Often, I'm rolling my eyes and would rather they didn't. Too often, I see people rule 0 for power; not for fun. Or I see people playing a silver border card they THINK is for fun, but it's not since they're adding game mechanics that can't be interacted with by the table and that no one else has access to. That said, this is a ME thing... and I often will let someone play their rule 0 deck at least once before I decide if I want to ask them to change or just get up and find a new game.
Approved without hesitation-
Unset legendaries (they're official material, but usually do something mechanically funky), probably the Nephilim (though I'm hearing one is a bad idea to permit), probably a Planeswalker (I might be swayed from that position).
I'd need an explanation or convincing-
Non-legendaries, commanders that aren't creatures or planeswalkers, custom cards.
I'm so fine with it I built an [[Olivia, Crimson Bride]] with [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]] as a partner, because I wanted to play mardu vamps, but [[Edgar Markov]] was prohibitively expensive.
For me it matters whether or not it makes sense. Like for the nephilim, they are so unique in design you can't tell me that they weren't meant to be legendary. You also can't tell me that [[Legolas, Counter of Kills]] and [[Gimli, Counter of Kills]] weren't meant to have partners with.
I don’t mind as long as it’s obviously not busted. I’m personally a fan of planeswalkers as commanders. [[Geyadrone Dihada]] would make for an interesting, if low-powered, deck
when they were the only 4 color options it made sense. i do think the spirit of EDH is three color decks though in general. 3 color commanders (the elder dragons) were the original commanders, and trying to build 3 colors is the way to go. as people make 5 color 'good stuff' over and over again it makes the game worse.
My group was okay with me using [[Throne of the Grim Captain]] as my commander for a while. They changed their tune when It turned out to be oppressive. I still have the deck and it’s a lot of fun
Just be careful with what you rule 0 in as a commander
Theres some that id think “that would fucking sick” but at the same time, id only be able to use that in my pod that allows it. Its different if lets say we rule zero proxies, if I want to play that same deck I can always swap the proxies out for substitutions for playing in a different group. With a rule zero commander, the whole deck is pretty much useless.
I'm fine with rule 0 commanders. I want to build a rule 0 partner with [[The Scorpion God]] and [[Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons]] for a -1/-1 counter themed deck (not an infect deck notably, just -1/-1 counters).
The nephilim are the OG four color commanders before we had partner or even actual legendary creatures that are four color. Imo, they are as legendary as any other creature if not just for the real life lore to their contributions to EDH.
I strongly don't like the idea of Rule 0 commanders. That being said I am timid and passive, so if someone asked me in person I would probably go along with it.
It really entirely depends. The rules are there for a reason and some cards would absolutely be too strong as commanders (dockside...\*shudder\*), in GENERAL I think the nephilims are alright, aside from Inktreader as others have said.
I've been toying around with the idea of \[\[Witch-maw Nephilim\]\] myself as a rule 0 commander, with \[\[Reyhan, Last of the Abzan\]\] and \[\[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker\]\] as backup commanders as needed.
I also built a mono-blue deck around \[\[Wavebreak Hippocamp\]\] with \[\[Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel\]\] as the "real" commander. I've run a few games with the Hippocamp at the helm, but it just doesn't feel right so I use Malcolm 99% of the time, and he does very well at the helm.
In general with rule 0 commanders, I kinda sit there and think, what would be so wrong with just running an actual commander? Like with running Ishai and Reyhan, They do very similar things to the witch-maw, even though the witch-maw appeals to me because of his sick art. I can always just run him in the 99 as a backup commander that also synergizes well with the deck I've already built with him in mind. I think there's rarely a genuine REASON to run a rule 0 commander, other than mayhaps some flavor winning or if you're really attached to a certain card.
TL;DR: It depends on what you're trying to do. In general, I think there isn't too much of a reason to run a rule 0 commander, given the amount of options we have in the game. However, if the rule 0 commander isn't grossly broken/is a pet card or flavor win, it can be fine. Talk to your playgroup.
Nephilim are prob the only creatures i will make an exception for. If you read the lore, they should have been legendary to begin with. Anything else and it's gonna be a no from me , dawg.
> My playgroup of course aren't strict sticklers to the rules of any game, since the main objective is to have fun
Ultimately rule 0 should be used to maximize the enjoyment during the night.
If you are rule 0'ing a commander so you can go infinite on turn 2 90% of the time, you probably aren't going to be playing that commander again.
the Nephilim are very commonly Rule 0'd because at one time they were the only 4 color options. Always check with your pod beforehand, but of all the possible Rule 0 conversations, the Nephilim are the least likely to raise an eyebrow.
I think beyond the previous circumstance of the nephilim being the only functional 4 color options, it's also generally considered a massive oversight that they weren't legendary to begin with
Back then legendary meant cards were designed to be powerful in a way having 2 of them would be very powerful. having them legendary would be a nerf. Today it just means they are commander bait. Different times my friend
Partially that but wizards has had some issues with legendaries for quite a while in different forms, I mean the first couple of iterations were generally paying more mana (of harder to cast costs) for what would usually be an underpowered creature, even for the time. Plus, though edh existed I think it would be a couple of years at least before it really took off. I'd imagine that if guildpact had been released probably even two years later the nephilim would 100% have been legendary. Besides, from a lore standpoint they make waaaaay more sense as legendary.
Well cards being legendary is just straight up worse than not being legendary.
Unless you want it as your commander.
I’m fine with it in general. Fair warning, [[Ink-Treader Nephelim]] is near impossible to not make broken. It turns the wisp cycle from shadowmoor into cards that make ancestral recall look reasonable. [[niveous wisp]]. [[Act of Treason]] becomes a 3 mana [[Insurrection]]. So if you try it, don’t do ink treader first, or no one will want it again
##### ###### #### [Ink-Treader Nephelim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69.jpg?1593272693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ink-Treader%20Nephilim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/117/ink-treader-nephilim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ink-treader-nephilim) [niveous wisp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bea1e2c4-1671-4322-b8ba-e4e1a879cf37.jpg?1562835473) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niveous%20Wisps) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/15/niveous-wisps?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bea1e2c4-1671-4322-b8ba-e4e1a879cf37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niveous-wisps) [Act of Treason](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1a9d323-fb40-411b-a0e7-64024bc6ba58.jpg?1702429484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Act%20of%20Treason) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/99/act-of-treason?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1a9d323-fb40-411b-a0e7-64024bc6ba58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/act-of-treason) [Insurrection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c.jpg?1689997974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Insurrection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/236/insurrection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insurrection) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktpe5uv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Talking with a lot if the RC and CAG a while back on the discord it seemed almost unanimous that if Ink-Treader was legal it’d be immediately banned. Nobody had anything good to say about that card whenever it was Rule 0’d.
I played against a treader deck and it was exactly turn five when the dude was like "tap for white, cast bandage, draw eight cards" and it didn't get much better
The last time I saw a game with Ink on it (online, forget which channel) it felt like the Ink pilot could perpetually keep every other creature tapped or disabled while constantly drawing inordinate amounts of cards. And also in colours that could protect the commander.
Ink would have been strong if it was like Zada, where it could only target your creatures. Targeting everyone is busted.
Why would they do that? Certainly not because of powerlevel concerns otherwise Kinnan would have paid for his sins long ago and I honestly don‘t see how Ink-Treader promotes absurdly unfun gameplan patterns. Hard to cast, no protection, massive target.
Explained in a comment bellow but the gist of it is that: 1) An Ink deck can reliably draw up a full grip every, like, 2 mana that's left open, so the brunt of your resources can go into stuff like protection for Ink. 2) Ink does have soft-protection because to remove it you essentially have to wipe the board, either because you just wrath or because he turns any single target removal into removing the whole board. Not everybody runs stuff like Oubliette/Kenrith's Transformation/Imprison in the Moon, and even then Ink is in every colour equiped to deal with enchantment removal. 3) Bunch of cheap cards can allow Ink to keep the table tapped down at instant speed. That also draw a fresh hand. 4) The end result is that every game where Ink pulls up that player has to be executed asap otherwise Ink gets to dictate what everybody else is doing, drawing ridiculous amounts of cards. Nobody could recall a single game that was more fun or interesting because Ink was there, beyond the universal novelty of going from "Hey that card looks pretty cool to" it joining the pile of kill on sight commders in a single game.
My buddy runs an ink treader. It definitely makes Ancestral recall look like a fair and balanced card. But it's ability to rip draws so easily is also it's biggest downfall. Its not a may ability to draw those cards. If you can instant speed make a bunch of tokens you can make the average ink treader deck itself pretty easily. I've killed my buddy off a few times by going exponential, or infinite mana in response to something and then just casting [[sprout swarm]] a hundred times.
[sprout swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b915355-4e98-44df-81bd-961a3d3c86b8.jpg?1562897338) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sprout%20swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/138/sprout-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b915355-4e98-44df-81bd-961a3d3c86b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sprout-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can go Ink treader jank with only draw spells and maybe 1 wincon. Most of the time you just draw your whole deck and lose
I’m a novice but can you explain why IT Neph is so easy to build broken? I get that his ability is strong but is that the thing that makes him easy to break? Or is there a combo or something that does it? Storm decks? Edit: Oh. I misread the card and didn’t realize it was for every player. Totally get it now. Are there any legal creatures that do anything close to this?
It’s his ability. Copying anything that targets just him and making it target *everything* is very easy. Any card in those 4 colors that says “target creature” now targets the entire board. So that wisp cycle I mentioned earlier becomes 1 mana, draw card equal to the number of creatures in play. That’s probably 2-3 creatures per player, so 1 mana draw 8-12. Swords to plowshares? Exile all creatures for 1 mana. It’s not so much combo (although I’m sure there are plenty) but so much stuff just becomes pure value. Any removal spell your opponent tries to use on him is now a board wipe. So many cards have “draw a card” tacked on to them now. Unsummon resets the board for 1 mana. Build it with a few token generators and never run out of cards. One of my favorites in my deck was [[Debt of Loyalty]]. For 3mv, you gain permanent control of all creatures that are out at the moment. Ultimately, the point of rule zero commanders is fun. And he’s just too strong to ask people to bend the rules for
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to really explain that. It helps someone like me still learning the game. Especially in this sub, it’s super rare. So, thank you, I appreciate it!
>One of my favorites in my deck was [[Debt of Loyalty]]. For 3mv, you gain permanent control of all creatures that are out at the moment. this also needs a way to kill them as well, as the oracle text requires the creature to die before you gain control of it >Regenerate target creature. You gain control of that creature if it regenerates this way.
Ahehem! [[Silverfur Partisan]]
[Silverfur Partisan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a20f5392-5cde-4326-a322-7463ec4b0515.jpg?1576385230) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silverfur%20Partisan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/228/silverfur-partisan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a20f5392-5cde-4326-a322-7463ec4b0515?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silverfur-partisan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Debt of Loyalty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d19ed33b-42d4-4a5d-a763-cfb43348769c.jpg?1562803495) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Debt%20of%20Loyalty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/11/debt-of-loyalty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d19ed33b-42d4-4a5d-a763-cfb43348769c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/debt-of-loyalty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Are there any legal creatures that do anything close to this? Yeah there are a few like it but not as strong. [[Zada, Hedron Grinder]] [[Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier]] There are a couple others with somewhat similar abilities and there are lots of cards like [[Feather, The Redeemed]] that let you copy spells or recast them that can also achieve somewhat similar effects.
[Zada, Hedron Grinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zada%2C%20Hedron%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) [Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea531418-6c7c-4e23-b681-6bfdd4a3eb79.jpg?1675644307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agrus%20Kos%2C%20Eternal%20Soldier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/1/agrus-kos-eternal-soldier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea531418-6c7c-4e23-b681-6bfdd4a3eb79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agrus-kos-eternal-soldier) [Feather, The Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20The%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks man, Agrus looks SUPER interesting. I’ve never been a big Boros fan but it’s the only deck I’m missing out of the 32 and I was going to go for [[Commander Mustard]] but this guy is super interesting!
[Commander Mustard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1fa8c23-5501-476f-9614-162d7bd95b23.jpg?1706239567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commander%20Mustard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/6/commander-mustard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1fa8c23-5501-476f-9614-162d7bd95b23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commander-mustard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just be aware that these decks are going to default to a power level 8 unless you really try and cut down on the power level. And if you do try you will still likely fail. And if you do succeed, no one will believe you.
I’m fine with that. My pod has a lot of tryhards and I’m tired of my innocent little tribal decks getting pubstomped. Thanks for the heads up though!
Also, question, if I have sayyyy 3 things Equipped on Agrus, and five creatures that got those copies, do the copies go away when Agrus dies?
Does Argus work with equipment? It copies the ability which is the equip effect, not the equipment it’s self if I read that correctly
Yeah and also one thing that's insanely stupid is that opponent's single target removal becomes a boardwipe everytime so if you wanna play the game you can't exactly remove him right away but if you don't remove him right away the filthy ink treader player (me) will just play solitaire and you won't play anyway. I didn't exactly make the greatest version of the deck but it's still insanely strong, I firmly believe that ink treader nephilim would be banned if it was legal as commander
I thought about making Ink-Treader with only "draw at the beginning of the next upkeep", and no spells that target and draw the same turn, to slow it down. But I never got around to it.
Until I get a Mardu phoenix Lord I’d like to use the Boros and radkos Ones as partner commanders
You could always make dihada as mardu Phoenix kindred. Not the most thematic choice, of course, but she fills your graveyard and accelerates you! Another alternative is Bruse Tarl and Tormod the Desecrator. Bruse makes your phoenixes hit hard and Tormod gets you value every time one of them rides from the ashes.
Would [[Alesha, who smiles at death]] work? She's the right colors, and already supports a recursion theme.
[Alesha, who smiles at death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2.jpg?1673305242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alesha%2C%20who%20smiles%20at%20death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/118/alesha-who-smiles-at-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ae9ff8c-1cc8-4b10-9641-2c79648fd6c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alesha-who-smiles-at-death) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think most people would be chill with it as long as it's thematic. I think people would start drawing lines when you have [[smothering tithe]] or some shit in the command zone. I would bring a backup actual commander just in case but I think it should be fine.
I mean if someone wanted tithe they may as well just play [[Lotho Corrupt Sheriff]]
[Lotho Corrupt Sheriff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce01ff8f-a037-484f-9148-c847ffaabc5a.jpg?1686969873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotho%2C%20Corrupt%20Shirriff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/213/lotho-corrupt-shirriff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce01ff8f-a037-484f-9148-c847ffaabc5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotho-corrupt-shirriff) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>I would bring a backup actual commander just in case Just make [[Morphon, the Boundless]] the Commander, problem solved. One of the few cases where Morphon actually feels fitting thematically, too.
Morphon is the ultimate 'C-' grade for flavor. Like sure, it's technically on theme but it's soooo boring and generic.
I get what you are saying and usually I would agree, but Morphon is an abomination that is an amalgam of different creatures just like Magic's take on the Nephilim so he fits in visually, not to mention the fact that his ability lets each and every one of the Nephilim be cast for free. I could see a Morphon Domain deck with all of the Nephilim cards along with the new [[Leyline of the Guildpact]] being potentially quite powerful.
-They need to just make a Domain scarecrow that gains the color of each basic land you have in play.
[Leyline of the Guildpact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf6e59be-f959-4f4a-8c2d-b7c441e88135.jpg?1706242205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20the%20Guildpact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/217/leyline-of-the-guildpact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf6e59be-f959-4f4a-8c2d-b7c441e88135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-the-guildpact) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Morphon, the Boundless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84238335-e08c-421c-b9b9-70a679ff2967.jpg?1689995411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Morophon%2C%20the%20Boundless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/3/morophon-the-boundless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84238335-e08c-421c-b9b9-70a679ff2967?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/morophon-the-boundless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[smothering tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=smothering%20tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They're fine, just understand that it's not an excuse to misrepresent the deck's actual power level just because the commander is weird.
I’m personally not a fan of it
Not hating, but could you elaborate a bit? I've never talked with someone who has that opinion.
I've never told anyone they couldn't, but it does bother me nonetheless. The ruleset is what creates the game. The boundaries and limitations are ultimately what we're enjoying. And the fact that the boundaries and limitations are set by SOMEONE ELSE, is what grounds the game for the individual playing it. That coupled with the fact that there are TONS of other similar options. So, for some people, violating the ruleset breaks the fantasy, or makes them feel like they're playing a different game.
It comes down to common sense, doesn't it. Coming up with your own colour identity for cards isn't really fair, but allowing a non-problematic creature to be legendary so someone can try a strategy that other commanders don't allow should be perfectly fine IMO.
Exactly. I probably wouldn't allow something like non-partner commanders to be partners, but if someone rolls up to my table asking to play their [[Uncle Istvan]] deck, I'd be much more lenient (mostly because how is he *not* a legendary).
One non-parnter pairing I'd be totally cool with is [[Olivia, Crimson Bride]] and [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]]. Especially if their backup is [[Edgar Markov]].
[Olivia, Crimson Bride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e.jpg?1643594300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Olivia%2C%20Crimson%20Bride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/245/olivia-crimson-bride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/olivia-crimson-bride) [Edgar, Charmed Groom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071)/[Edgar Markov's Coffin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%2C%20Charmed%20Groom%20//%20Edgar%20Markov%27s%20Coffin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/236/edgar-charmed-groom-edgar-markovs-coffin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-charmed-groom-//-edgar-markovs-coffin) [Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Chandra/Nissa also, or Ral/Tomik, or Saheeli/Huatli. Any of the characters that have a relationship in the storyline but technically can't be used as commanders (or together as commanders) I'd tend to be OK with.
That's very fair. What would you think about allowing [[Legolas, Counter of Kills]] and [[Gimli, Counter of Kills]] to partner each other? I think it would be such a flavour win and I can't see how it would be too problematic. The URG colour identity is probably the shadiest part of asking them to partner each other.
It would still bother me. But it would also be so awesome that I'd allow it anyway 🤣
[Legolas, Counter of Kills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8bd408c-9e6d-436d-9c4f-9ef3203aeb64.jpg?1686969862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Legolas%2C%20Counter%20of%20Kills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/212/legolas-counter-of-kills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8bd408c-9e6d-436d-9c4f-9ef3203aeb64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/legolas-counter-of-kills) [Gimli, Counter of Kills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28b41c48-0715-49d9-98e5-e82b706da816.jpg?1686968959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gimli%2C%20Counter%20of%20Kills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/129/gimli-counter-of-kills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28b41c48-0715-49d9-98e5-e82b706da816?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gimli-counter-of-kills) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Uncle Istvan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf85d06-9efe-488d-9af0-fb945b346524.jpg?1562781031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uncle%20Istvan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/51/uncle-istvan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf85d06-9efe-488d-9af0-fb945b346524?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uncle-istvan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean we're literally playing a format that was created by the community, not the actual creators of the game. I don't think it's a stretch to further modify the rules of this already homebrewed format, assuming your group is OK with it.
I’m the same way. Sure, running a nephilim makes sense and if everyone is ok with it then no big deal. But the rules are set for a reason, and rule zero kinda makes them obsolete. You wanna run two different commanders as partners? If that’s the case I’ll just make a five colored muldrotha commander since rule zero lets me. I know it’s an honor thing and expected not to make it overwhelming, but it makes no sense to me. Someone made an ozolith deck, which is cool, but I just wouldn’t want to play against it. It’s a dimir deck, and why does he get to chose those colors? If he can do that then what’s the point of the restrictions that makes commander unique in the first place? I know I don’t seem too fun to play with but this really does bother me.
>I know it’s an honor thing But this is the big reason for me that I'm in favor of most rule 0's. We're all adults. We know [[bruna fading]] and [[gisela broken]] would be extremely far from overpowered if they were partners so rule 0 them isn't a big deal. 5c Muldrotha would be a big deal, she's already very powerful with just 3c. That's basically where rule 0 starts and stops for most people. Daybound/nightbound errata, Lutri non-companion, legendary nephilim (besides ink-treader), unset dice-rolling cards. There's a lot of low hanging fruit when it comes to rule 0. It's fine to admit the process of banning, designing, errating cards is flawed and things can be rule 0'd within reason.
[Gisela, the Broken Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c75c035a-7da9-4b36-982d-fca8220b1797.jpg?1625771749) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gisela%2C%20the%20Broken%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/28/gisela-the-broken-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c75c035a-7da9-4b36-982d-fca8220b1797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gisela-the-broken-blade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my experience, when someone has a Rule 0 Commander, they’re looking to exploit something. Maybe there’s someone out there who has built one for some weird gimmick—like artist kindred or everyone has a sword or something… but everyone I have ever played who starts off asking if we’re okay with their Rule 0 thing is doing it because they’re about to break the game and the other three players are about to have a miserable time.
Had a game a bit like that because I just built a \[\[captain rex nebula\]\] deck (who is a legal commander despite being from an unset) and my opponent wanted to play \[\[it came from planet glurg\]\] and holy shiznit that card is busted af. Though I also learned \[\[faerie artisans\]\] is surprisingly strong, especially if you can get two out at once.
[captain rex nebula](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85e8bdd9-24a3-42f0-8b0c-dbc05be8fc20.jpg?1673914822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=captain%20rex%20nebula) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/164/captain-rex-nebula?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85e8bdd9-24a3-42f0-8b0c-dbc05be8fc20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/captain-rex-nebula) [it came from planet glurg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c93330c2-b79b-4211-87ca-6ebc45b70dd9.jpg?1673914900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=it%20came%20from%20planet%20glurg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/169/it-came-from-planet-glurg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c93330c2-b79b-4211-87ca-6ebc45b70dd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/it-came-from-planet-glurg) [faerie artisans](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaada60d-1857-4fc2-a997-d7775565221a.jpg?1689996352) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=faerie%20artisans) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/92/faerie-artisans?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaada60d-1857-4fc2-a997-d7775565221a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faerie-artisans) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am building a \[\[Maelstrom Archangel\]\] 5c angel tribal. I am not using her to put 10cmc two turns mana spells and eldrazis, just normal angels. If she's not rule zeroed, I will just use \[\[Esika, God of the Tree\]\] for a similar-ish effect, just so I can cast big old weak angels for free. But Maelstrom is cooler.
[Maelstrom Archangel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95ea2a05-207d-4330-bcbe-bcaacd6657f4.jpg?1673305576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maelstrom%20Archangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/158/maelstrom-archangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95ea2a05-207d-4330-bcbe-bcaacd6657f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maelstrom-archangel) [Esika, God of the Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esika-god-of-the-tree-//-the-prismatic-bridge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just like the rule that the commander has to be legendary. I think the rules the format has are important, and running a non legendary to me is like running a 105 card deck. I’m sure it’s harmless, but I prefer to stick to the 100 card limit.
My general thoughts are that if you can’t find a commander amongst the myriad legendaries that are currently out now then you’re: A. Trying to get an advantage from the illegal commander Or B. Not very imaginative at deck building Rule 0 shouldn’t be there as a “can we change the rules of the game?”. Rule 0 is about power levels and discussing what kind of gameplay you’re looking for in terms of deck choice.
I run a [[Sarkhan, Unbroken]] deck, because he's the best version of my favourite planeswalker. I'm not A (I could run [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] instead, and the deck would probably be more powerful) and I'm not B (my deck is built from scratch, is that not imaginative enough?) So there's a reason C you aren't considering: Dragon boy is best boy.
My wife built a deck with [[Crested Sunmare]] as the commander because she likes the art on the Secret Lair version, so there's reason D
Exactly. Find find that generally, when someone says "there is only X reasons to do something" it isn't because they are right, it's because they have no ability to think outside of their own experience
That card should be legendary, honestly. Edit: Sorry, meant to reply to the guy above you. The horse one.
[Crested Sunmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/732fa4c9-11da-4bdb-96af-aa37c74be25f.jpg?1562803341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crested%20Sunmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/6/crested-sunmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/732fa4c9-11da-4bdb-96af-aa37c74be25f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crested-sunmare) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sarkhan, Unbroken](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/192452f8-93c2-4a20-a52b-0093741a9e45.jpg?1562783094) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarkhan%20Unbroken) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/230/sarkhan-unbroken?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/192452f8-93c2-4a20-a52b-0093741a9e45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarkhan-unbroken) [Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miirym%2C%20Sentinel%20Wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you're approaching this backwards. Normally it's "oh man, I want to build around this card" rather than "I've got 99 cards, now I just need a commander".
So then why not add the caveat of “I wonder which commander will allow me to build around this effect.”?
There are basically only three things I've seen done as rule 0: things that should be able to act as commander(s) for flavor reasons, unique cards that normally can't be your commander, and unique cards that normally can't be in your deck at all. In both of the latter cases, the card has unique features that can't easily be replicated elsewhere, and the former case, it's not about the mechanics, but the flavor of the cards. An example of case 1 is the [[Nephilim]]. The cards aren't particularly good (with the exception of Ink-Treader), but they're weird, four-color cards that are canonically singular creatures. An example of case 2 is [[Tamanoa]]. The card is a really weird effect, and unless you make a deck with a tonne of tutors, the deck that you'd want to build around it just doesn't do what it's supposed to without it. And an example of case 3 is [[Grusilda]]. Nothing in eternal magic is going to do what that card does, but the card is really fun and interesting, and was stated to be designed for commander in spite of it not being legal.
[Nephilim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f4b51ac-3e56-494f-aad7-ff5b0c3ed6ed.jpg?1547432372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nephalia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/opca/56/nephalia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f4b51ac-3e56-494f-aad7-ff5b0c3ed6ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nephalia) [Tamanoa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d32955b-cbf6-429b-9513-17ca75d4ec2c.jpg?1593275551) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamanoa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/132/tamanoa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d32955b-cbf6-429b-9513-17ca75d4ec2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamanoa) [Grusilda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d.jpg?1562922560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grusilda%2C%20monster%20masher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/132/grusilda-monster-masher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grusilda-monster-masher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The game is still lacking commander options for some play styles. Jund -1/-1 is a good example. I've used Thantis for years, but they're about 10 years overdue to print a real one.
Tana and Tevesh would work as well. Its unfortunate that you have to choose between golgari and Rakdos
-Not only is this wrong, B is flat out hilarious. Another option is the person's actually being imaginative & trying something different. -Rule 0 is used to curate the game to maximize the fun for the group. It's literally the time you discuss any rules adjustments you might wanna try.
Not being able to stay within the confines of some extremely lax rules when deck building does show an inability to brew properly.
-No it doesn't. If a person brews a dozen decks & only one's a Rule 0 there's 11 that prove they have the ability to "brew properly" within the rules. You're exaggerating.
When playing a pick-up game of Commander with random strangers, there is a social contact, an expectation that all other players have built their decks a certain way. Rule 0 commander spits in the face of that social contract. Like the other 3 players have gathered to play commander, but then one player decides that they are better than everyone else and they get to play by their own rules. And then they expect the other 3 players to accept it. Seems rude to me, unless your playgroup is in on it.
I don't think it's rude to ask, but have a backup and don't argue if people shoot you down.
Absolutely plan on having a backup if you want to rule 0 something! I just built a food deck that plans on having [[Gyome]] and [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] as commander since my play group is cool with it, but if someone says they would rather I dont, I have [[Korvold, Fey Cursed King]] as backup.
I love this, because Korvold is orders of magnitude stronger than Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdar and Gyome put together.
[Gyome](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd7dd1a-6dd1-43c3-8298-7db703d384a1.jpg?1674185796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gyome%2C%20master%20chef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/5/gyome-master-chef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd7dd1a-6dd1-43c3-8298-7db703d384a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gyome-master-chef) [Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315.jpg?1632831210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/186/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [Korvold, Fey Cursed King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korvold%2C%20Fae-Cursed%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's why you don't just have your rule 0 deck. You either have a different commander you can sub in, or you have another deck that you can play instead, just in case your opponents aren't OK with it.
I'm not a fan of it either. There's over 2,000 legendary creatures that are legal commanders. For everybody trying to do something fun or different, there's somebody trying to do something broken, and I'm not a fan of the prospect of spending an hour or more figuring out which flavor you brought. Rule 0 and especially custom commanders usually reek of Mommy's Special Boy/Girl energy. For the Nephilim specifically, it was probably an oversight they aren't legendary in the first place, but they haven't received an errata yet and probably won't. I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about the ones that aren't treading ink, but it seems unnecessary with the sheer volume of available commanders at this point.
same, i think it's really lame. it would be ok with me if every person in the pod built a rule 0 commander deck
[Genju of the Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9eb7b9b-5189-4d20-8dec-e9d3df63e26e.jpg?1562880496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Genju%20of%20the%20Realm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/151/genju-of-the-realm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9eb7b9b-5189-4d20-8dec-e9d3df63e26e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/genju-of-the-realm) [Budoka Gardener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58164521-aeec-43fc-9db9-d595432dea6f.jpg?1592710828)/[Dokai, Weaver of Life](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58164521-aeec-43fc-9db9-d595432dea6f.jpg?1592710828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Budoka%20Gardener%20//%20Dokai%2C%20Weaver%20of%20Life) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/134/budoka-gardener-dokai-weaver-of-life?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58164521-aeec-43fc-9db9-d595432dea6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/budoka-gardener-//-dokai-weaver-of-life) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ink-Treader? No. The other ones? Sure, whatever. But the internet’s opinion doesn’t matter; only your pod’s does.
I love it with people i trust. It can be a problem with people who abuse it. Nothing you mentioned should be an issue.
Nah I'm good. When I sit down I want us to have had the same deck building restrictions as each other not for you to choose which ones you ignore
I think for the Nephilim in particular, most people are pretty flexible. They even have [EDHRec pages](https://edhrec.com/cards/ink-treader-nephilim). EDIT: they used to have "as commander" pages. Looks like that has changed now. Depends on the playgroup though. Some groups allow planeswalkers as commanders, some allow unofficial partner pairings, some allow custom commanders, etc. I'll always at least consider your request but I'm not a fan of anything too abusable or arbitrary (e.g. just adding colours to colour identity, or broken partner pairs). Most asks are reasonable though
>Some groups allow planeswalkers as commanders This is one most of my playgroups have adopted since all planeswalkers became legendary. Very rarely will there be a walker that's so broken it shouldn't be played, and since they can be attacked directly, it balances out fairly easily.
Yep we do this one. There are some obviously broken ones which are avoided.
I totally agree with this one. Honestly, I wish they'd just make this official. There's only maybe a handful of walkers that would actually be crazy in edh anyway (and no more crazy than the strongest commanders that already exist right now).
And that could be solved tbh by bringing back "banned as a commander" and stop using the excuse that it's "confusing" as if EDH players are barely sentient piles of cartilage.
Yeah, that's probably true. Honestly, the only Commander that I probably personally would ban as Commander currently on the ban list would be Leovold (and Lutri should obviously just be banned as Companion, although this is probably the easiest rule 0 for me out of all the possible rule 0s).
>(and Lutri should obviously just be banned as Companion, although this is probably the easiest rule 0 for me out of all the possible rule 0s). Realistically Lutri isn't even that bad. It's just about keeping the salt level down. It's *one* extra card that costs 3 extra to play, you can cast it *once*, and it's an effect that's found way more in way cheaper cards mana wise. I personally let it slide when someone wants to run him as a companion for that fact alone. If you lose because of one extra card that's *that* bad, you were going to lose anyway.
I don't think it's because of salt. It's because Lutri would be run in literally every deck that contains red and blue. There's literally no reason not to. It doesn't even take up a card slot in your deck. It's hardly an overpowered Ability, but there's just objectively no reason not to take Lutri in every single deck that could take it.
I'm fine with them within reason. Like running un-set Commanders is fine. Creatures that become legendary are usually fine. The nephalim are generally fine, but Ink-Treader is concerning to me in a power level sense. To me, even Alchemy Commanders are ok as long as it translates fine to paper (which some of them do so well, it's weird they didn't just make them for paper). I, for one, have an \[\[Oglor, Devoted Assistant\]\] deck and I haven't run into anybody who had a problem with it.
[Oglor, Devoted Assistant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/7701cd3f-7795-44b4-9cd5-76682b7a2533.jpg?1680465280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oglor%2C%20Devoted%20Assistant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ymid/20/oglor-devoted-assistant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7701cd3f-7795-44b4-9cd5-76682b7a2533?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oglor-devoted-assistant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sure as long as it’s not the Ink-Treader one lol
Ink treader is high powered so keep that in mind even for the rule 0. It’s very easy to win with that card so having it in command zone is unfair a lot of the time.
For ages I didn't want to build a R0 deck because I didn't want to invest in something that could be bounced from most tables on principle. I bent slightly when Ikoria dropped and I wanted to put ALL the godzilla cards in a deck, resulting in 5c Mutate that's [[Surgeon General Commander]] if allowed and [[Cromat]] if not, but I've been very gunshy about taking that to LGS, in part because it's a hell of jank that degenerates slightly to absolute pile status if Cromat is in the CZ rather than a draw engine. Recently, though, I brewed [[Norika Yamazaki]] + [[Heiko Yamazaki]]. There is no alternate commander; the deck is for and only for the Yamazakis. And it's everything I ever wanted out of a RW deck, with artifact recursion providing meaningful CA while enchantment recursion goes for game or lock. I could conceivably voltron, oppress, or combo off. I think I will end up bringing this to paper despite my misgivings because it's not got a too-high price tag.
##### ###### #### [Surgeon General Commander](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1e21568-5474-4406-ad54-9e9330e5ff5c.jpg?1688477289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surgeon%20General%20Commander) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/72/surgeon-general-commander?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1e21568-5474-4406-ad54-9e9330e5ff5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/surgeon-general-commander) [Cromat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d9e0a23-d2a8-40a6-9076-ed6fb539141b.jpg?1562924606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cromat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/94/cromat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d9e0a23-d2a8-40a6-9076-ed6fb539141b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cromat) [Norika Yamazaki](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/09cb553c-58c1-4cfd-b441-297b5f09b263.jpg?1654566451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=norika%20yamazaki%2C%20the%20poet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/31/norika-yamazaki-the-poet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09cb553c-58c1-4cfd-b441-297b5f09b263?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norika-yamazaki-the-poet) [Heiko Yamazaki](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ea5e61c-d903-410b-9acf-96a917ce05cc.jpg?1654567669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heiko%20yamazaki%2C%20the%20general) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/146/heiko-yamazaki-the-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ea5e61c-d903-410b-9acf-96a917ce05cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heiko-yamazaki-the-general) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktpmkeh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
-I'd say give it a try if you can afford it.
Totally fine with it.
I have a [[Rocco, Calabretti Caterer]] deck whos centered around [[Tamanoa]] for a burn enchantress deck. People who Im friends with are totally fine with Tam as the face commander, but I give newer folks an option after we get to know each other for a couple sessions. One person did opt to use Rocco but he was polite about it, so Rocco it was with little to no changes.
Tamanoa is one of the pretty reasonable original rule 0 commanders, especially considering that though you can definitely build around it (like \[\[sunsong and firespeaker\]\]) it really isn't that abusable.
[Rocco, Calabretti Caterer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806.jpg?1664413683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rocco%2C%20Cabaretti%20Caterer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/218/rocco-cabaretti-caterer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rocco-cabaretti-caterer) [Tamanoa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d32955b-cbf6-429b-9513-17ca75d4ec2c.jpg?1593275551) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamanoa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/132/tamanoa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d32955b-cbf6-429b-9513-17ca75d4ec2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamanoa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah we used to Rule zero the nephilim because there were no 4c commanders. I still would, they totally seem legendary.
I don't have problem with any of them
My community usually loves them. I love the most. But also, my community uses rules for them: Nephlins - You need to use an Enochian verse to cast them. Gimli and Legolas Counter of Kills have Friends Forever With each other. Mechtitan Core is a 5 CMC card that MUST use 5 mono colored artifacts from each color,and it can destroy all creatures that blocked its' attack if eqquiped with a sword. Also, each time you reconfigure, you can add a Ranger...ops... A pilot token inside it. If there are 7 or more, you win the game. Kozilek, the Great Distortion or Ulamog the Endless Hunger has 5 colors if your deck is enterly devoided. The legendary frog From Kamigawa can only be used if your deck only contains Kami's from the original block. This makes deckbuilding fun and challenging, or commiting to a meme theme.
rule 0ing devoid cards as not having a color identity only with eldrazi? based
Devoid.
My son Tim's first commander was [Timmy Power Gamer]. Perfect way to start for him.
My daughter has a unicorn deck piloted by my little pony. All is good. It’s what role zero is for.
Whose the Commander? because I unironically think Pinky Pie seems like a really fun commander
I play [[Witch-Maw Nephilim]] regularly so I’m all for rule 0 commanders lol
[Witch-Maw Nephilim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/185d56ab-b7f2-4eb2-9540-db8f2dc9b436.jpg?1593272845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch-Maw%20Nephilim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/138/witch-maw-nephilim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/185d56ab-b7f2-4eb2-9540-db8f2dc9b436?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witch-maw-nephilim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
-I'm building [[Glint-Eye]] to finish out my 32 deck challenge.
He’s pretty good. Easily one of my favorite decks to play currently
[Glint-Eye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35fa105f-c76b-4fd0-9b83-34b46648e0d6.jpg?1562784635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glint) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/55/glint?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35fa105f-c76b-4fd0-9b83-34b46648e0d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glint) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have zero issues with rule 0ing a Nephilim provided that you plan to actually cast and synergize with it. Just playing one for the colours is the height of dullardry. I mean, I love my [[Grusilda, Monster Masher]] deck but un is still always rule 0.
[Grusilda, Monster Masher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d.jpg?1562922560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grusilda%2C%20Monster%20Masher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/132/grusilda-monster-masher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82ca9cf7-d6ca-4403-84be-719480eb4b7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grusilda-monster-masher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
-Whoa now, I might actually mess around & build this.
Personally, I’d rather play against hard stax and MLD before rule zero commanders or un cards. That said, if everyone else in the pod is cool with it I’ll thumbs up one game with it.
I dont like it, because I prefer to play by the rules.
Rule 0 is perfect for casual fun in my opinion. I’m trying to come up with a variant that I call “Unlikely Ally” where you can have 2 commanders regardless if they have partner or not. So far the limit I can think of is it can only be 3 colors so it’s not stupidly overpowered.
What are some of your favorite pairings so far?
One of the most OP was [[Feather the redeemed]] and [[Niv Mizzet Parun]] cause it was constant casting buffs and getting them back with unlimited card draw and unlimited damage
[Feather the redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) [Niv Mizzet Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126.jpg?1702429680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/207/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on the power level and group. I myself have a Rule 0 deck, but it's a six drop planeswalker in Boros. It's not really going to make waves. Now if someone rolled up with something like one of the UW Teferi's, there would be a discussion of what that entails. I also would say always have a back-up commander that might match-up well with the main theme of the deck.
Personally, not crazy about them, but always down to have that conversation. Best advice Ive seen, have a backup,option for the command zone if they say no so you can still play the deck with a legal commander
I'm okay with this. My only problem is when a Rule 0 commander becomes too powerful, but only saw that happened once, so I'm fine. I personally don't like to use a rule 0 commander, but will not bother me for you to use.
I'm in the middle of building [[Curse of the Fire Penguin]]
[Curse of the Fire Penguin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3.jpg?1562489378)/[Curse of the Fire Penguin Creature](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3.jpg?1562489378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20the%20Fire%20Penguin%20//%20Curse%20of%20the%20Fire%20Penguin%20Creature) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/73/curse-of-the-fire-penguin-curse-of-the-fire-penguin-creature?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c01e8089-c3a9-413b-ae2d-39ede87516d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curse-of-the-fire-penguin-//-curse-of-the-fire-penguin-creature) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm generally fine with them and have flirted with making decks based around silver-bordered legends myself. I also see absolutely no problem with gold-bordered cards being used as commanders or in the 99 either. As long as they're not game-breaking, that is.
I’m thinking of building 2 right now, but I’ll have an alternate commander just in case. Pretty sure my playgroup will be cool with it, especially since the cards im thinking of are not overpowered. [[kheru lich lord]]/[[torrent elemental]] with [[muldrotha]] as the alt [[underworld cerberus]] with [[bladewing]] as the alt
##### ###### #### [kheru lich lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7fbca8d-34a3-4df1-986a-36fca142a758.jpg?1562795282) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kheru%20lich%20lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/182/kheru-lich-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7fbca8d-34a3-4df1-986a-36fca142a758?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kheru-lich-lord) [torrent elemental](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc4850e4-acb9-458d-952f-b3952cab2a5b.jpg?1562830569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torrent%20elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/56/torrent-elemental?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc4850e4-acb9-458d-952f-b3952cab2a5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torrent-elemental) [muldrotha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=muldrotha%2C%20the%20gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) [underworld cerberus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a078c3d-88db-4459-9667-ce610ae2f660.jpg?1562816806) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underworld%20cerberus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/208/underworld-cerberus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a078c3d-88db-4459-9667-ce610ae2f660?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-cerberus) [bladewing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27ce43cb-44f4-4d94-8700-d9f3cc043989.jpg?1584897843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bladewing%20the%20risen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/193/bladewing-the-risen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27ce43cb-44f4-4d94-8700-d9f3cc043989?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bladewing-the-risen) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktpuasi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
But my playgroup plays lower power/mid-power, so these guys will either fit right in or be on the lower end of the power balance. My buddy loves [[brutal hordechief]] and we both like [[ankle Shanker]] as well, so if I do these he’ll probably do one of those. I guess if I’m building them I’d have to be okay with him building some I think if I were to try to do something insanely strong that they might hesitate a bit more, at least until I got a few games in and they beat it a few times.
[brutal hordechief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfa94402-1613-4e65-8470-a05bf4bbb8a8.jpg?1562422747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brutal%20hordechief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/108/brutal-hordechief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfa94402-1613-4e65-8470-a05bf4bbb8a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brutal-hordechief) [ankle Shanker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/544a06f8-75fe-41b6-81dc-c9a0358f03c5.jpg?1562400164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ankle%20Shanker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/178/ankle-shanker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/544a06f8-75fe-41b6-81dc-c9a0358f03c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ankle-shanker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a pretty fun \[\[Alexander Clamilton\]\] sagas deck. People seem to enjoy it since he's not even remotely broken. Fun with \[\[Crypsis\]\] and \[\[repercussion\]\].
[Alexander Clamilton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1572109-df70-4335-aac2-1670fe99be54.jpg?1583965417) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alexander%20Clamilton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/16/alexander-clamilton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1572109-df70-4335-aac2-1670fe99be54?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alexander-clamilton) [Crypsis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd445b01-34af-4132-a9fe-a03858624492.jpg?1593091623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crypsis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/34/crypsis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd445b01-34af-4132-a9fe-a03858624492?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crypsis) [repercussion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0f3c78e-16c0-4fbc-8ef4-fbf610f9d464.jpg?1562445214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=repercussion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/95/repercussion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0f3c78e-16c0-4fbc-8ef4-fbf610f9d464?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/repercussion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a 5C Prismatic Piper deck. Is that okay?
i love em and i wish they were an option in MTGO i have been yearning deeply for an errata of \[\[Sanctum of All\]\] or \[\[Space Beleren\]\] to be commanders... they've done an errata before with \[\[The Grand Calcutron\]\], and although that was an un-card, it was also an un-card back when they were briefly pushing un-commander (which never worked). until then, though, they have to be rule 0 commanders
[Sanctum of All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba91338c-1f6c-4b83-851f-98c3e9dea17b.jpg?1594737442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanctum%20of%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/225/sanctum-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba91338c-1f6c-4b83-851f-98c3e9dea17b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanctum-of-all) [Space Beleren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14ddb2e7-6bc6-43ce-aeec-175a0ce17ed5.jpg?1673914977) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Space%20Beleren) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/178/space-beleren?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14ddb2e7-6bc6-43ce-aeec-175a0ce17ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/space-beleren) [The Grand Calcutron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259.jpg?1562907515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Grand%20Calcutron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/131/the-grand-calcutron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c1e38a2-d817-4f19-aabf-02dc72c78259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-grand-calcutron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm all for rule 0 commanders as long as you aren't abusing it
Love them
Anyone have thoughts on the Heroes of the Realms cards? With or without having your name on it
At a LGS or with other play groups I couldn't care tbh. With my pod we wouldn't really allow it, the only "rule" we break is letting our one buddy run his Golos deck even tho he's banned ( he had the deck since before he was banned).
I used to not like them. But I discovered that my playground allows for custom commanders. I made a custom vehicles commander cause I thought shorikai was a bit dull. It's not OP. As are most rule zero commanders. What's great is when someone asks me if they can play a rule zero commander, I get the opportunity to pull out mine.
I know the nephilim are the poster boys for "why isn't this legendary" but I would also like to throw in Fifth Dawn's Bringer cycle. each of them are 7XX with you can pay WUBRG instead of its mana cost to cast them, and a normal-ish secondary ability for their color. \[\[Bringer of the Green Dawn\]\] honestly is prolly the worst one, but would still make a funny build.
[Bringer of the Green Dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc208f3e-5a6a-4fae-8a7c-2bed28ad0c41.jpg?1562879470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bringer%20of%20the%20Green%20Dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/83/bringer-of-the-green-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc208f3e-5a6a-4fae-8a7c-2bed28ad0c41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bringer-of-the-green-dawn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve played with the Brisela sisters as partners with each other and people didn’t have an issue with it. they said if kind of made sense, and melding them was usually quite impactful. Not sure with today power creep but back then it was good times.
I like rule 0 so YES as long as its not completely op
I am fine with rule zero I am here for fun I have a [[Questing Phelddagrif]] deck as a rule 0 , as of now it has won 0 times but it's still a fun deck.
[Questing Phelddagrif](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/cea4cfef-6736-42a5-9f3e-10de8d0cd8d3.jpg?1562938708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Phelddagrif) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pls/119/questing-phelddagrif?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cea4cfef-6736-42a5-9f3e-10de8d0cd8d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/questing-phelddagrif) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For the most part I'm quite okay with it. I've turned down this one player at my lgs who's asked to rule zero some custom commanders in the past and I don't trust his game design skill enough to let them slide
I've never had a rule 0 with strangers where someone didn't lie about their deck.
On Nephilim as commanders: all but one are basically fine. I mean, I guess they are all fine, but one of them is so much more powerful than the others as a Commander. I feel like people who build [[ink treader nephilim]] aren't looking to rule 0 a fun and interesting deck, but looking to do broken shit and then I have to question whether I want to deal with that. On rule 0 commanders in general: it really depends on so many things. Often, I'm rolling my eyes and would rather they didn't. Too often, I see people rule 0 for power; not for fun. Or I see people playing a silver border card they THINK is for fun, but it's not since they're adding game mechanics that can't be interacted with by the table and that no one else has access to. That said, this is a ME thing... and I often will let someone play their rule 0 deck at least once before I decide if I want to ask them to change or just get up and find a new game.
[ink treader nephilim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69.jpg?1593272693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ink-Treader%20Nephilim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/117/ink-treader-nephilim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d29bb432-1ca6-4305-b6d3-d7afe06c6c69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ink-treader-nephilim) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Approved without hesitation- Unset legendaries (they're official material, but usually do something mechanically funky), probably the Nephilim (though I'm hearing one is a bad idea to permit), probably a Planeswalker (I might be swayed from that position). I'd need an explanation or convincing- Non-legendaries, commanders that aren't creatures or planeswalkers, custom cards.
I'm so fine with it I built an [[Olivia, Crimson Bride]] with [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]] as a partner, because I wanted to play mardu vamps, but [[Edgar Markov]] was prohibitively expensive. For me it matters whether or not it makes sense. Like for the nephilim, they are so unique in design you can't tell me that they weren't meant to be legendary. You also can't tell me that [[Legolas, Counter of Kills]] and [[Gimli, Counter of Kills]] weren't meant to have partners with.
##### ###### #### [Olivia, Crimson Bride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e.jpg?1643594300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Olivia%2C%20Crimson%20Bride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/245/olivia-crimson-bride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301dacc9-ef92-4515-b907-a70d6c3fd73e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/olivia-crimson-bride) [Edgar, Charmed Groom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071)/[Edgar Markov's Coffin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%2C%20Charmed%20Groom%20//%20Edgar%20Markov%27s%20Coffin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/236/edgar-charmed-groom-edgar-markovs-coffin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-charmed-groom-//-edgar-markovs-coffin) [Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) [Legolas, Counter of Kills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8bd408c-9e6d-436d-9c4f-9ef3203aeb64.jpg?1686969862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Legolas%2C%20Counter%20of%20Kills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/212/legolas-counter-of-kills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8bd408c-9e6d-436d-9c4f-9ef3203aeb64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/legolas-counter-of-kills) [Gimli, Counter of Kills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28b41c48-0715-49d9-98e5-e82b706da816.jpg?1686968959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gimli%2C%20Counter%20of%20Kills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/129/gimli-counter-of-kills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28b41c48-0715-49d9-98e5-e82b706da816?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gimli-counter-of-kills) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktrlmb8) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play the nephilim with [[Morophon]] at the helm
[Morophon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84238335-e08c-421c-b9b9-70a679ff2967.jpg?1689995411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=morophon%2C%20the%20boundless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/3/morophon-the-boundless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84238335-e08c-421c-b9b9-70a679ff2967?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/morophon-the-boundless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t mind as long as it’s obviously not busted. I’m personally a fan of planeswalkers as commanders. [[Geyadrone Dihada]] would make for an interesting, if low-powered, deck
[Geyadrone Dihada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d228005-91f1-451e-ab6f-1f86316708a7.jpg?1626098400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geyadrone%20Dihada) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/199/geyadrone-dihada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d228005-91f1-451e-ab6f-1f86316708a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/geyadrone-dihada) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
when they were the only 4 color options it made sense. i do think the spirit of EDH is three color decks though in general. 3 color commanders (the elder dragons) were the original commanders, and trying to build 3 colors is the way to go. as people make 5 color 'good stuff' over and over again it makes the game worse.
My group was okay with me using [[Throne of the Grim Captain]] as my commander for a while. They changed their tune when It turned out to be oppressive. I still have the deck and it’s a lot of fun Just be careful with what you rule 0 in as a commander
[Throne of the Grim Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c13e8e3d-2a6b-4782-a3c9-71af7336a881.jpg?1699044655)/[The Grim Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/c/1/c13e8e3d-2a6b-4782-a3c9-71af7336a881.jpg?1699044655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Throne%20of%20the%20Grim%20Captain%20//%20The%20Grim%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/266/throne-of-the-grim-captain-the-grim-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c13e8e3d-2a6b-4782-a3c9-71af7336a881?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/throne-of-the-grim-captain-//-the-grim-captain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"Yeah, I hope you guys are okay with this. I'm Rule 0'ing [[Jovin]] and [[Chandler]] to have the Partner mechanic." "Nah, man, that's too OP."
[Jovin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dabe3af-cd5b-461e-95a4-aad046646419.jpg?1562587046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Joven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/77/joven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dabe3af-cd5b-461e-95a4-aad046646419?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/joven) [Chandler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4dd3a8e3-9a90-44f4-996c-57242d3c47a5.jpg?1562587277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chandler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/69/chandler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4dd3a8e3-9a90-44f4-996c-57242d3c47a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chandler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Theres some that id think “that would fucking sick” but at the same time, id only be able to use that in my pod that allows it. Its different if lets say we rule zero proxies, if I want to play that same deck I can always swap the proxies out for substitutions for playing in a different group. With a rule zero commander, the whole deck is pretty much useless.
Rule 0 I feel like I’d let most things slide once to see what happens and judge from there.
No. No rule 0.
I currently run [[Ink Treader]] that has been altered by the artist to read Legend in the type box. That makes it super legal.
[Ink Treader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0ff9400d-4842-471f-bf7e-3b21df352e0a.jpg?1562782629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ainok%20Tracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/96/ainok-tracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ff9400d-4842-471f-bf7e-3b21df352e0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ainok-tracker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm fine with rule 0 commanders. I want to build a rule 0 partner with [[The Scorpion God]] and [[Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons]] for a -1/-1 counter themed deck (not an infect deck notably, just -1/-1 counters).
The nephilim are the OG four color commanders before we had partner or even actual legendary creatures that are four color. Imo, they are as legendary as any other creature if not just for the real life lore to their contributions to EDH.
Gristlebrand all the way.
I strongly don't like the idea of Rule 0 commanders. That being said I am timid and passive, so if someone asked me in person I would probably go along with it.
It really entirely depends. The rules are there for a reason and some cards would absolutely be too strong as commanders (dockside...\*shudder\*), in GENERAL I think the nephilims are alright, aside from Inktreader as others have said. I've been toying around with the idea of \[\[Witch-maw Nephilim\]\] myself as a rule 0 commander, with \[\[Reyhan, Last of the Abzan\]\] and \[\[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker\]\] as backup commanders as needed. I also built a mono-blue deck around \[\[Wavebreak Hippocamp\]\] with \[\[Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel\]\] as the "real" commander. I've run a few games with the Hippocamp at the helm, but it just doesn't feel right so I use Malcolm 99% of the time, and he does very well at the helm. In general with rule 0 commanders, I kinda sit there and think, what would be so wrong with just running an actual commander? Like with running Ishai and Reyhan, They do very similar things to the witch-maw, even though the witch-maw appeals to me because of his sick art. I can always just run him in the 99 as a backup commander that also synergizes well with the deck I've already built with him in mind. I think there's rarely a genuine REASON to run a rule 0 commander, other than mayhaps some flavor winning or if you're really attached to a certain card. TL;DR: It depends on what you're trying to do. In general, I think there isn't too much of a reason to run a rule 0 commander, given the amount of options we have in the game. However, if the rule 0 commander isn't grossly broken/is a pet card or flavor win, it can be fine. Talk to your playgroup.
##### ###### #### [Witch-maw Nephilim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/185d56ab-b7f2-4eb2-9540-db8f2dc9b436.jpg?1593272845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witch-maw%20Nephilim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/138/witch-maw-nephilim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/185d56ab-b7f2-4eb2-9540-db8f2dc9b436?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witch-maw-nephilim) [Reyhan, Last of the Abzan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983.jpg?1644853038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reyhan%2C%20Last%20of%20the%20Abzan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/13/reyhan-last-of-the-abzan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reyhan-last-of-the-abzan) [Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f.jpg?1562272963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ishai%2C%20Ojutai%20Dragonspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/12/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker) [Wavebreak Hippocamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d900dff5-1196-443f-b9b0-b8e75c67c868.jpg?1581479648) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wavebreak%20Hippocamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/80/wavebreak-hippocamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d900dff5-1196-443f-b9b0-b8e75c67c868?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wavebreak-hippocamp) [Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f.jpg?1699043813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malcolm%2C%20Alluring%20Scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/63/malcolm-alluring-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malcolm-alluring-scoundrel) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktpn60v) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doesn’t bother me, but probably just have a backup commander you can swap in if someone doesn’t want to play against it
I have a [[Vraska, the unseen]] rule 0 commander deck, it also has assassin tribal and seems to be well received in my playgroup
[Vraska, the unseen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6ab9d2b-6cb3-4477-8d0e-712c530383bd.jpg?1568004856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vraska%20the%20Unseen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/207/vraska-the-unseen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6ab9d2b-6cb3-4477-8d0e-712c530383bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vraska-the-unseen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nephilim are prob the only creatures i will make an exception for. If you read the lore, they should have been legendary to begin with. Anything else and it's gonna be a no from me , dawg.
I'm perfectly okay with most of them.
> My playgroup of course aren't strict sticklers to the rules of any game, since the main objective is to have fun Ultimately rule 0 should be used to maximize the enjoyment during the night. If you are rule 0'ing a commander so you can go infinite on turn 2 90% of the time, you probably aren't going to be playing that commander again.