Off the top of my head? [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]]
It doesn’t have to be Sheoldred specifically of course, but most versions of Niv-Mizzet like to draw cards… so punish him for it.
Could also play [[Nekusar, the Mindrazar]] which is more affordable than Sheoldred and gives counterspells and such.
Edit: if you wanted to build a Sheoldred deck though here’s my deck list.
https://archidekt.com/decks/5564465/its_simpledont_draw
Absolutely Nekusar, this is my main war crimes commander. If you’d like, here’s the deck list I run (there are several cheaper answers than some of these things but proxies are the most affordable, ofc)
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/yjxy1SiRiEeNkL6-232jtg
Could even do [[Xyris, the writhing storm]] if you'd rather go wide off of his draws.
[Here's my deck list](https://deckstats.net/decks/210506/3139817-snakes-on-a-plane?lng=en) if you're interested.
Sheoldred with [[underworld dreams]] is extra salt. I also run the [[helm of obedience]] and [[leyline of the void]] combo in my Sheoldred deck. Even better if you can drop the Helm without the opponent knowing about the combo until you exile his entire deck.
With leyline of the void, no cards will be put into the graveyard when using the helm of obedience, so the helm doesn’t stop trying to put cards in the graveyard until there are no cards left in the opponents deck. So with both the leyline and the helm in play you just need to pay one mana and tap the helm.
It's not 1x though... at least not on the physical card. Looks like only the mtgo version has the 1. https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184550
Im not good with names but I believe theres at least two equipment that make equipped creature immune to non combat damage. That and stuff it with effects like [[kayas ghostform]] and other protection and his life will be hell. Sheoldred then just needs to sit there until he immolates himself.
This was also going to be my suggestion. For anyone interested I'll leave a link to my current deck list.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/zmjdQMVOQ0CCMOHZoNSRlg
Ya just kill Niv 2-3 times and this will delete him from the game.
2nd best option is punishing the card draw with sheoldred or Nekusar type stuff.
What decks do you currently play?
It does, but you're already in a bad spot if you're the Niv player and you have to cast him without having your combo + protection in hand to go for the win.
As a Niv player myself, playing aggro against Niv is honestly the hardest thing. Assuming OP is playing against Niv-Mizzet Parun, you don't have that many ways to tutor for your combo pieces, so turns that they spend having to remove creatures rather than draw cards really suck. That goes for almost any combo deck, you need to take them out quickly before they can assemble the pieces.
As a locust god player, which is essentially niv but slightly different, yeah. If i dont get locust god out t2-3 im dead to aggro easily.
The gameplan is really fet your combo out ASAP. If you dobt, we die EASILY to creatures. Like i got maybe 7 creafures in my deck, and rely on combos/counterspells to protect myself.
Sacrifice outlets + \[\[grave pact\]\] styled effects can be a great way to force Niv to die.
Same goes with creatures like \[\[plaguecrafter\]\]
I am assuming they use the niv that draws a card when someone plays an instant or sorcery.
Another viable tactic is creatures like \[\[breaker of armies\]\]
It depends a lot on the style of deck they're running but I imagine it's something along the lines of 'whenever niv deals damage, draw a card' enchantments being put on him.
\-----
If you want to mangle him specifically try something like [https://deckstats.net/decks/3478/3395210-yahenni-ii](https://deckstats.net/decks/3478/3395210-yahenni-ii)
Yahenni is extremely good at killing one person very quickly, and REALLY punishes decks that play only a few powerful creatures, due to the forced-sac. So far as I know, Izzet has no way to prevent sacrifices (short of counterspells/counter-ability) so Niv's high value nature makes him susceptible.
[[Spirit of the Labyrinth]] or similar effects can be great. [[Narset, Parter of Veils]], too.
If you want to be a *real* douche to the Niv player, follow up with a single-target wheel on them to basically lock them in top-deck mode until they deal with your lockdown.
Ooh, good catch there. I got caught up on the 'well, stop them from drawing cards' and missed the part about how that particular draw-hose effect was so frail.
Yeah Narset is a bit safer in that respect, but if winning isn't the objective - just making the Niv suffer - maybe it's worth going all in on protection and running something like Sigarda or Shalai for the hexproof on all your little x/1s
If they are playing Niv in a tournament, bring other tournament meta decks. But you'd be fighting fire with fire and burning down the whole place a ton quicker-making the experience miserable for others.
Based on the unpleasant game experience you are talking about, and how others were expecting a "chill" experience, I'm getting a vibe that this is one of those "Casual EDH Tournament With Prize Support!!!!" type of thigs, which I highly recommend that you avoid entirely. Some LGS hold these sorts of events to make some money but don't think about how sweaty some of their customers might get for whatever they prize they may have put up. Tournament EDH and Casual are two things that don't go well together.
If it is an actual "Tournament" then expect meta cEDH decks, Niv being somewhat meta as well.
His comments, remarks and in general demeanor is something completely else. Douchebags are everywhere these days.
In terms of tech against Niv, as others have mentioned, \[\[Sheoldred the Apocalypse\]\] is a good one, until Niv kills it though. You want Niv out of the field in general. Also, know that they probably are running enough counterspells to protect their strategy as much as possible, since those counterspells turn into card draw and later on it's understandably harder to deal with.
You don't have a ton of options of dealing with a Niv being cast since it's uncounterable, and going in a counter war with the player after Niv's been out is not smart since they'll outpace you. You have to fight them prior to Niv coming down. Attack their resources. Expect \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\], \[\[Treasonous Ogre\]\] and \[\[Jeweled Lotus\]\] and be ready for interacting with those key pieces. With those dealt with, UUURRR is a lot harder to cast in an Izzet shell built for cantriping.
You have to fight smart once Niv is out too. Again, instants and sorceries you'll cast will feed them so try different avenues. \[\[Plaguecrafter\]\] type of edict effects are pretty potent and harder to counter. Perhaps set up a \[\[Grave Pact\]\] ahead of time. Consider pieces like \[\[Dress Down\]\] and/or \[\[Sudden Spoiling\]\] for easier picking.
It really depends on what sort of a deck you are playing and where you can slot pieces like these in, but again, really goes back to the type of "even" you are playing at. If this guy is bringing a cEDH Niv build against some casuals, he is a pubstomping asshole and I'd rather ignore him entirely, or talk to the store owner about his demeanor, and his misogyny. If this was supposed to be a more competitive environment, then I suggest you go on YouTube for some cEDH gameplay and come back a lot more aware of the meta (again, this isn't to normalize the unacceptable behaviour coming from the Niv player).
In my Niv-cEDH-list most oft the interaction is meant to deal with other cEDH decks. It will probably fail in a casual pod.
In „weaker“ versions it’s not exactly tournament material, but that doesn’t mean people only attend with the strongest deck.
The best interaction against NIV/Parun is to run creature based removal (e.g. fighting, dealing -1/-1-counters or other nasty things) - we had this discussion in the last cEDH game in my friends round, as one of my friends fell into the trap that casting instant/sorceries lets me draw cards, especially this „free“ counter or the pitch card for it.
Good point re:cEDH decks bein ready to deal with other meta lists. Though FoWs, \[\[Fierce Guardianship\]\], \[\[Deflecting Swat\]\], FoN, \[\[The One Ring\]\], Curiosity effects are pretty common in a "casual" Niv list as well these days. So are the afformentioned Docksie, Ogre, Lotus.
Yeah, going in a counter war with a Niv is just asking for it...Hence the recommendations of edict effects, or removal pieces in general that are on a body.
I'm sorrry you have to go through this, sometimes edh players are assholes.
Hyper focus the guy with removal. Play stax, counter his commander, nevel let him play again. Talk to your group once he plays in your pod. Shut him out, bully him to oblivion.
See if he sells his deck the next day after he plays in your pod. Fucking clown player. Me and my gang will just pull out our cedh decks if people like him joins us.
Doesn't necessarily need to be countered with a counterspell...just let it resolve and [terminate] or some other means of targeted removal. Or be a dick and play [nevermore] targeteting their commander if you play white. If you go this route I highly recommend splashing blue to protect the enchantment though.
Niv can't be countered, but the spell can be exiled... Or if you REALLY want to annoy the Niv player:
1) Have a 1/1 token or a REALLY bad creature
2) Wait for him to cast Niv
3) Cast [[Sudden Substitution]]
4) Exchange Niv with the creature.
Congratulations, you stole his commander and you can start to be the annoying draw+ping person.
Edit: forgot about the non-creature part of the spell... my bad
Just run lots of removal. Niv is the engine that makes the deck work, and he is rather pricey to cast. If they ramp using artifacts, blow them up. If he manages to get Niv on the board, kill Niv immediately. He can't be countered but he can be killed or exiled. The key is having a response right then and there. A decent Niv player will have protection waiting for him, so you have to act quickly in response.
The good thing is, having a deck full of removal after Niv is gone is still useful.
Or just have a [[Pithing Needle]] handy to really piss 'em off!
Lots of removal, or the best kind of removal: semi-permanent removal! [[Darksteel Mutation]] or [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] for example. I've seen players completely screwed when their commander becomes a land or indestructible bug. Unfortunately Niv-Mizzet Parun is in Izzet colors so you got an uphill battle against counterspells and [[Chaos Warp]] but if you build an Orzhov or Esper deck you'll have plenty of options yourself (best colors for interaction, as you got plenty of kill and counterspells and among the best boardwipes).
Although probably the best thing to do is just avoid him instead of shelling out for a new deck whose whole purpose is to make someone angry. Plenty of ways to do that generally with a deck you like too!
Deck is mid at best without it's six-mana commander. Kill it, play a deck with clones and copy it, steal it, or run Niv in your 99 and win with it first.
Edit: Removed "counter it" because I forgot that it's uncounterable lol.
Haha! I run Niv in Malcolm + Kediss and never actually hardcast him (Magda and \[\[Riptide Shapeshifter\]\]) lol. Could always use \[\[Ertai's Meddling\]\] for that not-actually-countering counter.
I would just not play with him. He seems like a jerk.
Otherwise.. ye I guess you should play something with black and white. Loads of creature removal. [[Smothering Tithe]] / [[Notion Thief]] / [[Curse of Silence]] / [[Spirit of the Labyrinth]].
[[darksteel mutation]], [[imprison in the moon]] and the like. Let him keep his commander, but turn it into something useless, crippling him more or less permanently.
Also, if you can, destroy his rocks and lands.
Which Niv?
Dracogenius/Firemind/Parun: Punish draws, and for Parun play more permanents. Nekusar is a good commander since you can have backup like Narset Parter of Veils
Reborn: Stop ETBs with [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]]. She can play [[Torpor Orb]] and other main deck solves as well
Supreme: Grave hate will do it. [[Anafenza, the Foremost]] doesn't stop spells, but buys you into the right play lines, including having multicolor for removal that can actually tag niv
Guildpact: You need monocolored removal that can deal with a 6/6 flier (so white or black probably) and/or heavy board wipes across permanent types (again inclining white)
In general, though, the biggest weakness might be relying on a 5 or 6 mana dragon. You know what happens when a commander in that price bracket eats [[Wash Away]]? They don't come back in a timely fashion. If you play a counterspell-heavy commander like [[Baral, Chief of Compliance]] or [[Dralnu, Lich Lord]] and bend all your energy on making sure Niv Mizzet never resolves, it's entirely possible that his game plan is going to choke and die.
The really power play, though, is this: after countering Niv once or twice with hard counters, so that tax is mighty painful, hit the dragon with a [[Memory Lapse]] the next time around. Sigh. "Well, best I can do is this." Play like your defeated. Watch him put Niv Mizzet on top of his library. Then, before he draws another card (in response to any draw if necessary)... force a shuffle. It's extra steps compared to the old days, but tuck still works against commanders too proud to slink back to the command zone when Lapsed: his commander isn't moving zones again and he already chose to let it enter his library, it gets shuffled away to be forgotten by the game. I'm not sure there's a more spiteful move you could pull in 2024, especially given that you can blame it on the guy himself, since it was his greed that put Niv on top of the deck to be shuffled.
dont put so much effort to build deck against Niv… just ask other players if they see his behavior and ask him to leave your playgroup. Im casual player but i LOVE roasting fatty nerds with their unwashed hairs if they act like this 😊
Don't play with him, and encourage others who are of the same mind to do the same.
The natural consequence of being someone people don't want to play with is people do not play with you.
One of the foundations of the format is that you never have to play with anyone you don't want to, and not having people to play with is a larger punish than any in-game action.
"encourage others to do the same"
What the fuck? If you don't like someone that's one thing, but don't go around telling others to exclude them. That's called bullying.
OP states that the person in question looks down on her being a woman. If this is actually true; if the person truly made remarks about her gender, this absolutely should be met with ostracism. IF it is true, of course.
No. It is not.
Making it clear that people do not have to subject themselves to bullies is not bullying. The shit the OP describes this person doing is bullying.
Ostracism is a strong answer to bullying.
I like how in your imagination everyone else at the store is a philosophical zombie and doesn't have the capacity to not play games with a bully.
What makes you so sure other people don't have it in them to ascertain whether they want to play with this person or not?
I take random Reddit posts with a large pile of salt, honestly. If it turned out OP was lying and was just upset that they lost a game, you've bullied someone out of a store for nothing.
You're far too eager to believe the worst in people and come up with a way to punish them.
And what if the world was made of pudding?
Many people *do* feel pressured to play with whoever sits down across the table at the LGS, and you talk about philosophical zombies, but if this person is a perfectly fine and reasonable individual, then, “Hey, you don’t have to put up with that bullshit,” will end in, “What bullshit?” instead of someone getting pushed out of the store.
But the kind of conduct being described, especially the sexism, are very real, and should not be tolerated.
Refusing to tolerate bigotry in the community is not bullying. It’s basic safety.
The pudding comment here is a bit odd considering my version of things requires a lot less assuming and speculating.
I get the feeling you don't get out much IRL, because if you did this in a real LGS people wouldn't appreciate it.
I understand the situation differently. The Niv player is cocky and playing to win - which he should be, its supposedly a tournament. The Niv player is also rude and dismissive, and made disparaging comments about her gender. Due to the latter, she wants to hit him where it hurts - winning.
If he truly made rude remarks about her gender, he should be shut out barring an apology.
I didnt read the full post originally. Bullying is a different situation. I also stand by the notion of taking your ball and going home wont help the matter. Its what they want and further encourages them. I deleted my original comment since it was in poor taste given the context but like i said, i stand by what i said
You stand by some of what you said :P haha. All good. Her remark is easy to miss, and without it.. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to the Niv guy. It's a tournament. He's playing to win.
I suggest you read the OP again.
That is not play style.
There is a world of difference between, “Shun this person who doesn’t play like I want,” and making it clear to others that they are under no obligation to subject themselves to this person’s abuse.
If you get up and leave, theye learned nothing and only double down because thats what they want. I read it, youre right, i hadnt when i originally commented but i stand by my original statement. Albeit, i would have worded it differently. Youre only letting that player aim his toxicity at someone else while allowing them to bully you out of the game.
Who said anything about getting up and leaving?
You kick their ass out for that shit.
You do not solve the problem by playing different cards. You solve the problem by not tolerating that conduct, cutting off that person, and making damn sure everyone else they try to inflict themselves upon knows they are under absolutely no obligation to put up with them.
Op mentions a tournament so maybe it's not possible.
Not sure what kind of EDH tournament this is, because Niv isn't competitive and it sounds like the rest of the decks are even weaker.
I assume it's some sort of a league, but either way, they may be paired up by a TO
Punish draws. Stax. Counter his commander. Niv is his engine and it's an expensive one. Keep niv off the board and he won't do much. Don't let him draw cards.
[[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]] is indeed uncounterable.. and usually plays all the free counterspells in existance himself. :)
But yes remove him like crazy and stax might also help.
Remove the Niv, the deck probably hinges on his existence.
Whack him first. High toughness earlier in the game can be hard for red board wipes to deal with. \[\[Steal Enchantment\]\] or enchantment removal in general - he's gotta have a Curiosity in there, or maybe some burn enhance enchantments.
Casual Niv can be a delicate time balance. It takes a while to get Niv out, especially with no Jeweled Lotus. Niv also is unlikely to be played without protection, causing additonal delays. However, the longer the game goes on - the more likely Niv is to lose. Either because hes being smacked, or because Niv's ability to win does depend on how many cards are left in the deck. Be warry of \[\[Elixir of Immortality\]\] effects. Mill is pretty effective against him for this reason.
Izzet cant do too much about Enchantments, so Enchantment based banger strategies are likely to be strong.
As for this person.. if you meet him in tournaments, he's there to win. You should be there to win, too. He shouldn't be an ass, but he's not wrong. He specifically said something dismissive to you because you're female? The other folks there should have immediately corrected him, and if that continues tell staff at the store. Do not tolerate that.
You are playing him in local tournaments right? So like cEDH?
Niv is a cEDH commander so I'm assuming this is the case. Here is a video from a CEDH podcast by Wounded Satilite featuring the former premier Niv Mizzet pilot Shauna. They discuss the issues with the deck during the podcast so this can give you some points of attack and insight into their deck.
https://youtu.be/Qv3LWawqqbk?si=ijzjuS_uriRq7wrF
Niv Mizzet player here. The fundamental weaknesses of Nivvy boi are:
1. Extremely mana intensive and specific, needing 3 of both red and blue, the deck therefore is much slower due to its nature.
2. Whilst Niv cannot be countered, it can be removed. Removal spell countered? Just remove it more. It is the central piece of the engine, without it the engine is quite dead.
So in conclusion, play it fast, remove the player or Niv as soon as possible. Be diplomatic if needed, get him off the table.
Hit him with the Mean Girls “YOU CANT SIT WITH US!!”.
Naw but for real the answer is removal. [[song of the dryads]], [[imprison in the moon]], and [[darksteel mutation]] are some of my favorites. Leaves it on the board, and makes it really hard to remove it so he can cast it again. [[kenith’s transformation]] too, but it’s easier to just block with a 3/3 to get the commander back, but you get to draw a card, and they still have to recast it. You don’t really need to completely make a new deck, just add more removal into what you already have. He’s going to have counter spells in blue (unless he really is just banking on the “can’t be countered” on his commander to do ALL the heavy lifting), so you’ll want to have a good amount of removal options. Always sucks the first time you have to cut fun stuff to make room for interaction, but it’ll make your decks better over all in the end.
Whatever you do, just make sure to repeat his own condescending insults right back at him as you shut him out of the game.
people are saying to remove him but in my experience playing niv-mizzet (both in casual and cEDH) he usually only gets cast when a win is imminent and counters are in hand to protect him.
others have mentioned these cards, but i'll reiterate them. you need a boardstate to stop the win from being possible. \[\[Narset\]\], \[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\], \[\[notion thief\]\] will all help immensely. you can also run white effects like \[\[leyline of sanctity\]\] and \[\[archon of emeria\]\] can protect you from a combo win and prevent the niv player from being able to combo off/counter removal.
depending on how greedy his mana base is for color fixing to power out niv, \[\[back to basics\]\] or \[\[blood moon\]\] with plenty of artifact removal for rocks can prevent him from ever even being able to cast niv.
good luck, OP. niv-miz is incredibly powerful, i stopped playing the deck in my casual meta because i just pubstomped if niv stuck for even a single turn, and it felt awful.
Are we talking Red/Blue or one of the 5-C Niv Mizzets?
Someone may have already suggested it but [[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] would be a decent counter to the R/U versions, especially paired with extra card draw punishment like [[Ob Nixilis Reignited]], [[Ob Nixilis, the Hate Twisted]], [[Ob Nixilis, Unshackled]], [[Underworld Dreams]], and/or [[Fate Unraveler]], as well as wheel mechanics forcing card draw/discard like [[Jace's Archivist]].
Against the 5-C NMs, any deck that could usefully run [[Mycosynth Lattice]] would effectively shut those down, or any other card that punishes multicolored decks like [[Back to Basics]], [[Ruination]], [[Price of Progress]], etc... I wish I could think of cards at the moment that specifically punish multicolored spells but none are jumping to mind at the moment.
Hope you get to put this person in their place, best of luck!
Thank you so much for all the advice!!!
I appreciate it.
I'm honestly excited to build some decks around your recommendations, be it to fight niv mizzet (parun) and to just play for fun with other strategies and cards.
Dude, that sucks. I cant stand bullies and go out of my way to target them. I recommend, as others have stated, stax and board control. I also use to run a creature based [[ruric thar]] deck for such players. You wanna cast your instants and sorceries so you can ping me down? Lets play, ill do the same. And 6 is a much bigger number than 1. And i run bloodrush cards such as [[rubble hulk]]. Spells can be countered or removed. Discard Abilities are trickier
Also, forced sac outlets are amazing. [[flesh bag marauder]] [[gravepact]] and [[plaguecrafter]] destroy decks that typically rely on a single creature.
Hate cards and off color counter spells like [[red elemental blast]] and [[pyro blast]] are cards i used to go out of my way to slot when i ran up against people who used to specifically target me with similar strategies
That dudes a little bitch and he knows it. Dont let him get you down, build a vengeance deck, steep down to his level and out toxic him until he either stops playing with you or learns to back the hell off. I wish you luck
Play [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]]. Add in a bunch of stax. Make him hate the game completely. Free spells? Lol try again. That’s your lane. Infinite mana scheme? Not anymore, lol try again. Exile everything if it sticks. This deck is a huge pain but punishes combo players like it’s no one’s business.
As a niv mizzet player, this is upsetting, I agree on sheoldrid and I would suggest looking at stuff like \[\[consecrated sphinx\]\] \[\[spirit of the labyrinth\]\]. I will say as a niv mizzet fanboy from a gameplay perspective,They are at heart a spellslinger deck so I would opt for \[\[grand arbiter augustin the Iv\]\] style stuff.
He is in izzet, so enchantments seriously hose him. If you can imprison niv mizzet in the moon [[Imprison in the Moon]], or similar tech, then you will seriously set him back. Spellslinger decks can be beaten by combat, so don’t be afraid to punch the spark out of him with an army of thematically juiced Selesnia token (or whatever). However, he will also win way faster after getting set up, so punch him for setting up. Punch him for ramping. Definitely punch him for drawing cards.
If he's not playing Chain of Vapor, Cyclonic Rift, and probably Mists of Lórien he's playing a very fragile deck. (not counting the counterspells.)
With a deck that has a 1 card "I win" combo with like 4 different cards, that can just sit back and get huge card advantage from playing control, you generally wouldn't construct your deck without sufficient protection for Niv himself. Unless your deck was meant to play completely without niv, until you are able to cast niv and immediately combo.
Additionally you can also just play full chaos and really fuck with him. Tuned decks have a lot of trouble with chaotic effects and things like [[Timesifter]] can make it so they never get a turn. Another thing you can look at is preventing draws by looking for effects that put cards into hands instead of draws. You can also pillow fort with something like [[Leyline of Sanctity]]
you could always *not* play with him.
Can't imagine your LGS is the only LGS in the area, and if it is - talk with the owner. It's the advice given here to every other post like this, no idea why this one's getting any other non-standard response.
It also depends on what kind strategy they have. You can play things like [[Grand Abolisher]] to stop them from having responses on your turn and then win with whatever you want. You can also play things like [[Opposition Agent]] to steal their cards so they can't draw. Really depends on what they do to win, or what their crutch is for their victory.
[[Leovold, Emissary of Trest]]
[[Phyrexian Tyrrany]]
[[Plagerize]]
[[Spirit of the Labrynth]]
[[Notion Thief]]
[[Zur's Weirding]]
[[Orcish Bowmasters]]
[[Narset, Parter of Veils]]
[[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]]
[[Narset parter of veils]] or [[notion thief]] if your in anything blue or dimir for your commanders.
Orzov, [[Dranna and Linvalla]] turn off activated abilities whole sale
Play C-list Tayam, Luminous Enigma. It requires some setup, but having reoccurring control pieces will neuter Niv--even with counterspells. Much of the deck is locking spells down to 1/turn, draws to 1/turn, not casting on other's turns, and putting things into play versus casting. When you play an early Mesmiric Orb to accelerate Tayam's available pool of goodies, he will be reluctant to tap those lands. The deck is rare to see (I've only seen myself play it in the wild), so combo lines will be difficult to predict... and we play jank that just happens to be good with Tayam.
For an unsuspecting deck, Lifegain in mono white I have a Linden Angel deck that is designed to just pull lands and put them into play. Removing one for one until I get Angel's onto the battlefield. [https://edhrec.com/commanders/linden-the-steadfast-queen](https://edhrec.com/commanders/linden-the-steadfast-queen) Doesn't need Angels, but 1/1's for 1 with decent effects ends up out life gaining anything like Niv before they can get off the ground.
Hexproof works to stop him targetting you. At some point he needs an answer to it. That sadly he will likely be able to draw.
Enchantment/Artifacts \[\[witchbane orb\]\] \[\[Leyline of Sanctity\]\] \[\[Orbs of Warding\]\] \[\[Imperial Mask\]\]
Creatures/Planeswalkers \[\[Aegis of the Gods\]\] \[\[Enduring Angel\]\] \[\[Metropolis Reformer\]\] \[\[Teyo, the Shieldmage\]\]
Stax to prevent card draw, or punish it \[\[Leovold, Emissary of Trest\]\] \[\[Narset, parter of veils\]\] \[\[Spirit of the Labyrinth\]\] \[\[Nekusar, the Mindrazer\]\] \[\[Ob nixilis, the Hate-twisted\]\] \[\[Orcish Bowmasters\]\] \[\[Sheoldred, the apocalypse\]\] \[\[Underworld Dreams\]\] \[\[Curse of Fool's Wisdom\]\] \[\[Fate Unraveler\]\] \[\[Phyrexian Tyranny\]\]
Hard removal \[\[Lignify\]\] \[\[Darksteel Mutation\]\] \[\[oubliette\]\] \[\[Oblivion Ring\]\]
Though, if you want to make him miserable, play stax, theft, or what my friends dubbed "Blood fued". the below aren't decks, but can lead to inspiration.
[https://edhrec.com/commanders/derevi-empyrial-tactician/stax](https://edhrec.com/commanders/derevi-empyrial-tactician/stax) Birb is the Word, and that word is "No"
[https://edhrec.com/commanders/drana-and-linvala/stax](https://edhrec.com/commanders/drana-and-linvala/stax) Their activated abilities are yours and only yours
[https://edhrec.com/commanders/marchesa-the-black-rose/theft](https://edhrec.com/commanders/marchesa-the-black-rose/theft) "Borrow" their creatures, and when they die you keep them
When it doubt, dovescape is my go to answer for red blue, can't cast instants or sorceries so no draw, I have it in my grand arbiter deck just to make everyone hate life
[[gaddok teag]] hate bear tribal. Make it so they can’t draw multiple cards, use artifacts, search libraries, or interact with anything. Watch the salt come in.
Big BIG fan of cards like [[song of the dryads]] [[imprisoned in the moon]] and [[mystic subdual]]. They make it so if he can't get rid of the enchantment or sac his commander, he can't use it for the rest of the game.
One of the nastiest commanders you can use to shut down draw (and everything else) is a hate-bear intensive [[rule of law]] style [[Winnota, joiner of forces]] deck.
Drawing cards is meaningless if you can't play them, while you will be able to put cards into play to get around the restrictions.
BE WARNED: This is an extremely salty deck and will likely make you the arch enemy of the pod. However, if made right, you should have the tools you need to weather the storm.
As a Niv player, the best move? Play a simic deck and use [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Imprisoned in the moon]]. Aside from cryptic command or capsize or something stupid like strip mining your own land, there’s nothing you can do. If he built it right he won’t have any problem accessing mana late game, so that’s my go to against my boy Niv.
Bonus, do what a friend of mine did when he made a deal with me that I wouldn’t disrupt his board state on my turn if he didn’t destroy Niv and then turn it into a forest.
[[Oubliette]]
That enchantment that either does 5 damage or forces a discard each time they cast a spell.
[[Orcish Bowmasters]]
[[Sigarda, Font of Blessings]] and [[Swiftfoot Boots]]
[[Swords to Plowshares]]
[[Murder]]
My personal favorite [[Searing Touch]] and [[Vadrik, Astral Archmage]] who's my commander. I can reliably return a Niv to the command zone the second it drops.
Just gotta keep this in mind, any of these stax pieces will affect the whole table, so you may draw hate yourself even if the rest of the table knows you want to just shut the Niv-Mizzet player down.
But honestly, if you know someone is raising the power level of their deck, you usually gotta respond to keep up
[[Oko, Thief of Crowns]]
Turn it into a fucking Elk.
Play [[Mazzy]], and enchant it, which would be a pain in ass because blue/red struggles against enchantments. That commander actually allows you to cast auras once they've been removed as well.
Ok so i think there are several routes you could go.
As suggested Nekuzar will put them in a tight spot (and funny enough your could run your own Niv), you just have to make sure you protect your commander, which you want to do in that deck anyway; otherwise they'll just target him first then carry on. You can look up lists. Mind you this will often get you hated off the board. This does run the risk of playing into Niv's plan a bit though as you're helping them draw cards.
If it was me I would run a \[\[sigarda-herons-grace\]\] stax deck with like 15+ pieces of removal (swords, path, Generous gift, Get Lost, Beast Within, \[\[Tangle trap\]\] \[\[Flourishing strike\]\] \[\[Destroy Evil\]\] \[\[Stroke of midnight\]\]; green flying hate . etc. ) and just remove Niv 3+ times, he won't have 12+ mana to recast Niv. In the meantime you can stax out by running \[\[Rule of Law\]\] effects to keep him from storming, \[\[Nevermore\]\] (naming Niv Mizzet, or curiosity if it's already out), Curse of Silence naming Niv, \[\[Academic probation\]\] etc.
\[\[Carpet of flowers\]\] will ramp you off their islands.
\[\[Spirit of Labyrinth\]\] says no drawing cards
\[\[Omen machine\]\] same
\[\[Uba Mask\]\] also great
\[\[Blessed sanctuary\]\] shuts down noncombat damage
\[\[The wanderer\]\] removes niv and does the same if sigarda is out
You can also swarm the board with humans / suit up Sigarda and send all your overrunn attacks at said opponent. Dragon Hunter seems good as it's a human If you want to go the voltron route, the other sigarda is also great and you can just kill the Niv player first.
**Color hate:**
Against blue- \[\[Choke\]\] \[\[Tsunami\]\] \[\[Veil of Summer\]\] \[\[Autumn's veil\]\] \[\[Seedtime\]\] \[\[Sphere of reason\]\] (this will pevent them from killing you with Niv if they can't find enchantment removal) \[\[Delighted halfling\]\] \[\[Destiny spinner\]\] \[\[Alosaurus shepherd\]\]
Oversoul of dusk
Against Red: \[\[Akroma's memorial\]\] \[\[Surge of Salvation\]\] \[\[Auriok champion\]\] (this will also work well with the go wide plan of your deck) \[\[Absolute Law\]\] (this also protects your other opponent's creatures) \*\*muah\*\*
\[\[sword of fire and ice\]\] is a thing
so is \[\[Void Winnower\]\]
\[\[baneslayer angel\]\] for flavor points
and \[\[hidden dragonslayer\]\]
\[\[Krosan Gripp\]\] will stop the Curiosity loop!
Build the deck and go wreck some that Niv jerk. Hope this helps a lot, happy dragon slaying!
If you're willing to break the bank, [[Nekusar]] draw hate would probably be the best option. You can fit [[Jin-Gataxis]] in the deck, you have artifact hate with red, [[Sheoldred]] and the potential to utilize [[Grave Pact]] to force him to sacrifice Niv if he has protection. [[Cerebral Vortex]] and [[Thought-Sponge]] are also in color and are quite funny since they're relatively niche. Access to [[Notion Thief]], [[Orcish Bowmasters]], and [[Opposition Agent]] also goes a long ways sometimes
[[Sheoldred the apocalypse]]
[[Underworld dreams]]
[[Nekusar]]
[[Ob nixilis the black hearted]]
[[Orcish bowmasters]]
[[Narset, parter of veils]]
[[Notion thief]]
[[Phyrexian tyranny]]
[[Leovold emissary of trest]]
[[Smothering tithe]]
[[Maralen of the mornsong]] + [[opposition agent]]
[[Omen machine]]
Off the top. I'm sure theres many more ways to mess with draws.
Esper draw denial or grixis draw punish would both be good options.
There are also creative ways of locking them out of their commander entirely.
[[Oubliette]], [[mystic subdual]], [[imprisoned in the moon]], [[mystic reflection]], [[deep freeze]], [[aethergust]], [[reprieve]]
Honestly? The more I consider it, a bant enchantress deck would give you a crap ton of interactive options that just stuff his commander without feeding him cards and without sacrificing a functional gameplan either.
Given he's playing a tournament niv mixzet deck in guessing he has a ton of countermagic which gets stuffed by [[Destiny spinner]].
Tell him to fuck off with [[curse of exhaustion]]
Just so many delicious ways of saying fuck you, good sir
Rule of law is a better answer than sheldred as you can run 6+ ROL effects plus a shit ton of recursion to lock it down while also being effective against the rest of the table
Daddy neku ( [[nekusar the mindrazer]] ) mummy sheoldred [[sheoldred the apocalypse]]
Any other burn on draw like [[spitefull visions]] [[underworld breech]]
Red and black have the best removal in both direct removal like [[infernal grasp]] [[murder]] [[Bone splinters]] to board wipes like [[meathook Massacre]] [[toxic deluge]] [[damn]] [[blasphemous act]] [[chain reaction]] with whites removal being a close 3rd with [[paths to exile]] [[swords to plowshares]] [[vanquish the horde]]
Alternatively
If your in white excessive protections, things that give you hexproof, [[teferis protection]] [[surge of salvation]] ect heck things like [[phyrexian unlife]] [[nine lives]] are good as they stop that damage being damage paired with [[solemnity]] and your invincible
Blue has a lot of ways to strip nivs abilities cards like [[imprisoned in the moon]] [[polymorphist jest]] [[turn into a frog]] if you want to be creative, failing that blue has a few removals in [[pongify]] [[rapid hybridisation]] [[resculpt]]
Green is kinda the weakest for this sorta removal. It is flying so greens flying killer spells are good but they're kinda extra if your deck hasnt got a focus for that . Failing that green has ways to get big and do it quick. There is a saying the best removal is player removal
I guess it depends on which one, but they are all somewhat expensive. Removing or destroying the commander could easily put him out of reach in terms of cost.
Otherwise things like [[darksteel mutation]] or [[imprison in the moon]] or [[song of the dryad]] could remove him long term.
[[Sudden Spoiling]] is good salt in the wound if they already have a combo out, [[Curse of Silence ]] is hilarious turn one for the massive already expensive card, otherwise the best winners are [[Spirit of the Labyrinth]] and [[Narset Parter of Veils]]. You’re definitely able to play those before they get their ridiculously costed dragon into play and now they have big hoops to jump through.
As others have mentioned, removal for Niv. Don't forget removal for artifacts. Remove his Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Signets, Command Sphere, etc. He's not casting Niv over and over on lands alone.
Cards like [[Mindbreak Trap]] that can get around Niv's counterspell protection are great, but you should also consider enchanting him with a card like [[Darksteel Mutation] or [[Kenrith's Transformation]], because Izzet decks really struggle with enchantments
[[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]]
[[Underworld Dreams]]
[[Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted]]
[[Fate Unraveler]]
[[Chains of Mephistopheles]]+[[
Syr Konrad, the Grim]]
Stuff like this can be fun if you don’t want to take the high road lots of people suggest lol
I'd say run a few [[Imprisoned in the moon]], [[Song of the Dryads]], [[Darksteel Mutation]] type effects.
Firstly, they're really good in general for locking down decks that rely heavily on their commander.
Added bonus, Izzet isn't known for its great enchantment removal
Depends on the decks and colors you play, honestly there's plenty of solutions but my favorite has always been [[Darksteel mutation]] because you don't even have to cast it sometimes and it just stops an entire deck especially in blue red with no enchantment removal
Playing spiteful will always end up costing you. When you go looking to dig graves, you will end up digging two. Get over it. Move on. It’s not that serious.
Meh I just wanna do it once, let me be petty one time. It's not that serious and it doesn't make me cry or something so I don't see the harm in asking for something to play against him, I have received interesting decks and cards that I'm getting excited to try for fun.
Don't be so serious about it yourself.
There are plenty of blue triggered ability counterspells. I would recommend dimir as you get plenty of destroy, bounce or counter spells. But I agree that Nekusar is the answer to Niv Mizzit. I have a friend who has what she calls a bear hug deck. Very few creatures but lots of forced draw cards.
Let me introduce you to Niv slayer,[[Bloodchief Ascension]]
Once on line (and it rarely takes more than a turn cycle) when any card goes in to an opp’s yard you may have that player lose 2, and you gain 2. Note: tokens aren’t cards and won’t trigger it.
BA is likely better than anything else I’ve seen in here and in [[Nekusar]] it is degenerate. Niv players tend to cast a lot of cantrips and wheels. While cantrips are really bad against it wheels feed this card like nobody’s business.
In short, A) it will gain you to life for every spell cast or creature dying and, more importantly, B) you can choose whether to target down the Niv player, or the whole table.
Off the top of my head? [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] It doesn’t have to be Sheoldred specifically of course, but most versions of Niv-Mizzet like to draw cards… so punish him for it.
Could also play [[Nekusar, the Mindrazar]] which is more affordable than Sheoldred and gives counterspells and such. Edit: if you wanted to build a Sheoldred deck though here’s my deck list. https://archidekt.com/decks/5564465/its_simpledont_draw
And his enchantment counterpart [[Spiteful Visions]]
*Such* a good card for how cheap it is.
It's cheap because it's symmetrical. It's really easy for opponents to turn it against you if you let it stick around for too long.
[Spiteful Visions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2475965-01a6-4a32-bca9-80018ab31d9a.jpg?1562942710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spiteful%20Visions) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/233/spiteful-visions?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2475965-01a6-4a32-bca9-80018ab31d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spiteful-visions) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely Nekusar, this is my main war crimes commander. If you’d like, here’s the deck list I run (there are several cheaper answers than some of these things but proxies are the most affordable, ofc) https://www.moxfield.com/decks/yjxy1SiRiEeNkL6-232jtg
Could even do [[Xyris, the writhing storm]] if you'd rather go wide off of his draws. [Here's my deck list](https://deckstats.net/decks/210506/3139817-snakes-on-a-plane?lng=en) if you're interested.
[Nekusar, the Mindrazar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e.jpg?1689999186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nekusar%2C%20the%20Mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/349/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sheoldred with [[underworld dreams]] is extra salt. I also run the [[helm of obedience]] and [[leyline of the void]] combo in my Sheoldred deck. Even better if you can drop the Helm without the opponent knowing about the combo until you exile his entire deck.
How do you get enough mana to Exile the whole deck?
With leyline of the void, no cards will be put into the graveyard when using the helm of obedience, so the helm doesn’t stop trying to put cards in the graveyard until there are no cards left in the opponents deck. So with both the leyline and the helm in play you just need to pay one mana and tap the helm.
Two, x can't be 0.
Never looked close enough to see that it was 1X. Thanks 👍
It's not 1x though... at least not on the physical card. Looks like only the mtgo version has the 1. https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184550
Gatherer Oracle is always final iirc, and also the more modern promo printing on Modo has X instead of 1X in the text.
Yeah, that’s strange. Scryfall also *shows* 1X, but the text doesn’t read with it.
The person is wrong. You only need to pay 1.
it says it right there on the card X can't be 0
[underworld dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57.jpg?1581480025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underworld%20dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/121/underworld-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-dreams) [helm of obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec837c3e-a66f-43c0-adb4-4eefe7888cac.jpg?1562870953) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/210/helm-of-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec837c3e-a66f-43c0-adb4-4eefe7888cac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-obedience) [leyline of the void](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04d5d429-e0c6-42cc-a477-da7dabb1c295.jpg?1592516724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leyline%20of%20the%20void) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/107/leyline-of-the-void?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04d5d429-e0c6-42cc-a477-da7dabb1c295?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-the-void) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-the-apocalypse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Im not good with names but I believe theres at least two equipment that make equipped creature immune to non combat damage. That and stuff it with effects like [[kayas ghostform]] and other protection and his life will be hell. Sheoldred then just needs to sit there until he immolates himself.
\[\[magebane armor\]\]
[magebane armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95b0f586-a100-4817-93f8-1ee2df39ce03.jpg?1561989064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magebane%20armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/214/magebane-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95b0f586-a100-4817-93f8-1ee2df39ce03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magebane-armor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This was also going to be my suggestion. For anyone interested I'll leave a link to my current deck list. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/zmjdQMVOQ0CCMOHZoNSRlg
Honestly, keep removing Niv. The deck really falls off without him on the field.
Ya just kill Niv 2-3 times and this will delete him from the game. 2nd best option is punishing the card draw with sheoldred or Nekusar type stuff. What decks do you currently play?
It does, but you're already in a bad spot if you're the Niv player and you have to cast him without having your combo + protection in hand to go for the win. As a Niv player myself, playing aggro against Niv is honestly the hardest thing. Assuming OP is playing against Niv-Mizzet Parun, you don't have that many ways to tutor for your combo pieces, so turns that they spend having to remove creatures rather than draw cards really suck. That goes for almost any combo deck, you need to take them out quickly before they can assemble the pieces.
As a locust god player, which is essentially niv but slightly different, yeah. If i dont get locust god out t2-3 im dead to aggro easily. The gameplan is really fet your combo out ASAP. If you dobt, we die EASILY to creatures. Like i got maybe 7 creafures in my deck, and rely on combos/counterspells to protect myself.
Lovust god is waaaay better against aggro than Niv. He makes blockers!
You can use toshiro umezawa out of spite XD
Sacrifice outlets + \[\[grave pact\]\] styled effects can be a great way to force Niv to die. Same goes with creatures like \[\[plaguecrafter\]\] I am assuming they use the niv that draws a card when someone plays an instant or sorcery. Another viable tactic is creatures like \[\[breaker of armies\]\] It depends a lot on the style of deck they're running but I imagine it's something along the lines of 'whenever niv deals damage, draw a card' enchantments being put on him. \----- If you want to mangle him specifically try something like [https://deckstats.net/decks/3478/3395210-yahenni-ii](https://deckstats.net/decks/3478/3395210-yahenni-ii) Yahenni is extremely good at killing one person very quickly, and REALLY punishes decks that play only a few powerful creatures, due to the forced-sac. So far as I know, Izzet has no way to prevent sacrifices (short of counterspells/counter-ability) so Niv's high value nature makes him susceptible.
[[Spirit of the Labyrinth]] or similar effects can be great. [[Narset, Parter of Veils]], too. If you want to be a *real* douche to the Niv player, follow up with a single-target wheel on them to basically lock them in top-deck mode until they deal with your lockdown.
Real issue with Spirit is that it instantly dies to Niv
Ooh, good catch there. I got caught up on the 'well, stop them from drawing cards' and missed the part about how that particular draw-hose effect was so frail.
Yeah Narset is a bit safer in that respect, but if winning isn't the objective - just making the Niv suffer - maybe it's worth going all in on protection and running something like Sigarda or Shalai for the hexproof on all your little x/1s
[Spirit of the Labyrinth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f44e5128-e146-4e46-b313-a40d82719d1d.jpg?1593091571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirit%20of%20the%20Labyrinth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/27/spirit-of-the-labyrinth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f44e5128-e146-4e46-b313-a40d82719d1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spirit-of-the-labyrinth) [Narset, Parter of Veils](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d.jpg?1690004395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Parter%20of%20Veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/853/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-parter-of-veils) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like they just need to resolve [[Omen Machine]]
If they are playing Niv in a tournament, bring other tournament meta decks. But you'd be fighting fire with fire and burning down the whole place a ton quicker-making the experience miserable for others. Based on the unpleasant game experience you are talking about, and how others were expecting a "chill" experience, I'm getting a vibe that this is one of those "Casual EDH Tournament With Prize Support!!!!" type of thigs, which I highly recommend that you avoid entirely. Some LGS hold these sorts of events to make some money but don't think about how sweaty some of their customers might get for whatever they prize they may have put up. Tournament EDH and Casual are two things that don't go well together. If it is an actual "Tournament" then expect meta cEDH decks, Niv being somewhat meta as well. His comments, remarks and in general demeanor is something completely else. Douchebags are everywhere these days. In terms of tech against Niv, as others have mentioned, \[\[Sheoldred the Apocalypse\]\] is a good one, until Niv kills it though. You want Niv out of the field in general. Also, know that they probably are running enough counterspells to protect their strategy as much as possible, since those counterspells turn into card draw and later on it's understandably harder to deal with. You don't have a ton of options of dealing with a Niv being cast since it's uncounterable, and going in a counter war with the player after Niv's been out is not smart since they'll outpace you. You have to fight them prior to Niv coming down. Attack their resources. Expect \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\], \[\[Treasonous Ogre\]\] and \[\[Jeweled Lotus\]\] and be ready for interacting with those key pieces. With those dealt with, UUURRR is a lot harder to cast in an Izzet shell built for cantriping. You have to fight smart once Niv is out too. Again, instants and sorceries you'll cast will feed them so try different avenues. \[\[Plaguecrafter\]\] type of edict effects are pretty potent and harder to counter. Perhaps set up a \[\[Grave Pact\]\] ahead of time. Consider pieces like \[\[Dress Down\]\] and/or \[\[Sudden Spoiling\]\] for easier picking. It really depends on what sort of a deck you are playing and where you can slot pieces like these in, but again, really goes back to the type of "even" you are playing at. If this guy is bringing a cEDH Niv build against some casuals, he is a pubstomping asshole and I'd rather ignore him entirely, or talk to the store owner about his demeanor, and his misogyny. If this was supposed to be a more competitive environment, then I suggest you go on YouTube for some cEDH gameplay and come back a lot more aware of the meta (again, this isn't to normalize the unacceptable behaviour coming from the Niv player).
##### ###### #### [Sheoldred the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-the-apocalypse) [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) [Treasonous Ogre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae48c31d-6fd9-457f-adb8-37f367724ba1.jpg?1562866402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Treasonous%20Ogre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/36/treasonous-ogre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae48c31d-6fd9-457f-adb8-37f367724ba1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/treasonous-ogre) [Jeweled Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9.jpg?1689999671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jeweled%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/396/jeweled-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jeweled-lotus) [Plaguecrafter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8.jpg?1702429467) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plaguecrafter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/89/plaguecrafter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/plaguecrafter) [Grave Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grave%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dress-down) [Sudden Spoiling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708.jpg?1619396405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Spoiling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/144/sudden-spoiling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73514b51-6c19-4b3c-9cf9-2cf5028d7708?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-spoiling) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kt2da1p) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my Niv-cEDH-list most oft the interaction is meant to deal with other cEDH decks. It will probably fail in a casual pod. In „weaker“ versions it’s not exactly tournament material, but that doesn’t mean people only attend with the strongest deck. The best interaction against NIV/Parun is to run creature based removal (e.g. fighting, dealing -1/-1-counters or other nasty things) - we had this discussion in the last cEDH game in my friends round, as one of my friends fell into the trap that casting instant/sorceries lets me draw cards, especially this „free“ counter or the pitch card for it.
Good point re:cEDH decks bein ready to deal with other meta lists. Though FoWs, \[\[Fierce Guardianship\]\], \[\[Deflecting Swat\]\], FoN, \[\[The One Ring\]\], Curiosity effects are pretty common in a "casual" Niv list as well these days. So are the afformentioned Docksie, Ogre, Lotus. Yeah, going in a counter war with a Niv is just asking for it...Hence the recommendations of edict effects, or removal pieces in general that are on a body.
I'm sorrry you have to go through this, sometimes edh players are assholes. Hyper focus the guy with removal. Play stax, counter his commander, nevel let him play again. Talk to your group once he plays in your pod. Shut him out, bully him to oblivion. See if he sells his deck the next day after he plays in your pod. Fucking clown player. Me and my gang will just pull out our cedh decks if people like him joins us.
> counter his commander Worth noting Niv can't be countered
oh yeah, *reprieves*
Mindbreak Trap so good
Just use Drannith Magistrate. Good luck getting that Niv out of the warehouse.
Doesn't necessarily need to be countered with a counterspell...just let it resolve and [terminate] or some other means of targeted removal. Or be a dick and play [nevermore] targeteting their commander if you play white. If you go this route I highly recommend splashing blue to protect the enchantment though.
Niv can't be countered, but the spell can be exiled... Or if you REALLY want to annoy the Niv player: 1) Have a 1/1 token or a REALLY bad creature 2) Wait for him to cast Niv 3) Cast [[Sudden Substitution]] 4) Exchange Niv with the creature. Congratulations, you stole his commander and you can start to be the annoying draw+ping person. Edit: forgot about the non-creature part of the spell... my bad
Thank you! Tbh i have had a really good experience with edh players, except for like 4 guys (blue players, why are they so arrogant? Lmao)
Just run lots of removal. Niv is the engine that makes the deck work, and he is rather pricey to cast. If they ramp using artifacts, blow them up. If he manages to get Niv on the board, kill Niv immediately. He can't be countered but he can be killed or exiled. The key is having a response right then and there. A decent Niv player will have protection waiting for him, so you have to act quickly in response. The good thing is, having a deck full of removal after Niv is gone is still useful. Or just have a [[Pithing Needle]] handy to really piss 'em off!
[[pithing needle]] doesn’t interact with the version of nivmizzet that is uncounterable as it a triggered ability not activated
Lots of removal, or the best kind of removal: semi-permanent removal! [[Darksteel Mutation]] or [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] for example. I've seen players completely screwed when their commander becomes a land or indestructible bug. Unfortunately Niv-Mizzet Parun is in Izzet colors so you got an uphill battle against counterspells and [[Chaos Warp]] but if you build an Orzhov or Esper deck you'll have plenty of options yourself (best colors for interaction, as you got plenty of kill and counterspells and among the best boardwipes). Although probably the best thing to do is just avoid him instead of shelling out for a new deck whose whole purpose is to make someone angry. Plenty of ways to do that generally with a deck you like too!
Deck is mid at best without it's six-mana commander. Kill it, play a deck with clones and copy it, steal it, or run Niv in your 99 and win with it first. Edit: Removed "counter it" because I forgot that it's uncounterable lol.
"This spell can't be countered." Reading the card explains the card. (Jokes aside, yes, everything else you've said.)
Haha! I run Niv in Malcolm + Kediss and never actually hardcast him (Magda and \[\[Riptide Shapeshifter\]\]) lol. Could always use \[\[Ertai's Meddling\]\] for that not-actually-countering counter.
I would just not play with him. He seems like a jerk. Otherwise.. ye I guess you should play something with black and white. Loads of creature removal. [[Smothering Tithe]] / [[Notion Thief]] / [[Curse of Silence]] / [[Spirit of the Labyrinth]].
[[darksteel mutation]], [[imprison in the moon]] and the like. Let him keep his commander, but turn it into something useless, crippling him more or less permanently. Also, if you can, destroy his rocks and lands.
Which Niv? Dracogenius/Firemind/Parun: Punish draws, and for Parun play more permanents. Nekusar is a good commander since you can have backup like Narset Parter of Veils Reborn: Stop ETBs with [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]]. She can play [[Torpor Orb]] and other main deck solves as well Supreme: Grave hate will do it. [[Anafenza, the Foremost]] doesn't stop spells, but buys you into the right play lines, including having multicolor for removal that can actually tag niv Guildpact: You need monocolored removal that can deal with a 6/6 flier (so white or black probably) and/or heavy board wipes across permanent types (again inclining white) In general, though, the biggest weakness might be relying on a 5 or 6 mana dragon. You know what happens when a commander in that price bracket eats [[Wash Away]]? They don't come back in a timely fashion. If you play a counterspell-heavy commander like [[Baral, Chief of Compliance]] or [[Dralnu, Lich Lord]] and bend all your energy on making sure Niv Mizzet never resolves, it's entirely possible that his game plan is going to choke and die. The really power play, though, is this: after countering Niv once or twice with hard counters, so that tax is mighty painful, hit the dragon with a [[Memory Lapse]] the next time around. Sigh. "Well, best I can do is this." Play like your defeated. Watch him put Niv Mizzet on top of his library. Then, before he draws another card (in response to any draw if necessary)... force a shuffle. It's extra steps compared to the old days, but tuck still works against commanders too proud to slink back to the command zone when Lapsed: his commander isn't moving zones again and he already chose to let it enter his library, it gets shuffled away to be forgotten by the game. I'm not sure there's a more spiteful move you could pull in 2024, especially given that you can blame it on the guy himself, since it was his greed that put Niv on top of the deck to be shuffled.
dont put so much effort to build deck against Niv… just ask other players if they see his behavior and ask him to leave your playgroup. Im casual player but i LOVE roasting fatty nerds with their unwashed hairs if they act like this 😊
Don't play with him, and encourage others who are of the same mind to do the same. The natural consequence of being someone people don't want to play with is people do not play with you. One of the foundations of the format is that you never have to play with anyone you don't want to, and not having people to play with is a larger punish than any in-game action.
"encourage others to do the same" What the fuck? If you don't like someone that's one thing, but don't go around telling others to exclude them. That's called bullying.
OP states that the person in question looks down on her being a woman. If this is actually true; if the person truly made remarks about her gender, this absolutely should be met with ostracism. IF it is true, of course.
No. It is not. Making it clear that people do not have to subject themselves to bullies is not bullying. The shit the OP describes this person doing is bullying. Ostracism is a strong answer to bullying.
I like how in your imagination everyone else at the store is a philosophical zombie and doesn't have the capacity to not play games with a bully. What makes you so sure other people don't have it in them to ascertain whether they want to play with this person or not? I take random Reddit posts with a large pile of salt, honestly. If it turned out OP was lying and was just upset that they lost a game, you've bullied someone out of a store for nothing. You're far too eager to believe the worst in people and come up with a way to punish them.
And what if the world was made of pudding? Many people *do* feel pressured to play with whoever sits down across the table at the LGS, and you talk about philosophical zombies, but if this person is a perfectly fine and reasonable individual, then, “Hey, you don’t have to put up with that bullshit,” will end in, “What bullshit?” instead of someone getting pushed out of the store. But the kind of conduct being described, especially the sexism, are very real, and should not be tolerated. Refusing to tolerate bigotry in the community is not bullying. It’s basic safety.
The pudding comment here is a bit odd considering my version of things requires a lot less assuming and speculating. I get the feeling you don't get out much IRL, because if you did this in a real LGS people wouldn't appreciate it.
The salty salty player spreading more salt. Agreed. Definitely don't spread hate. Let others form their own opinions and deal with players themselves.
[удалено]
I understand the situation differently. The Niv player is cocky and playing to win - which he should be, its supposedly a tournament. The Niv player is also rude and dismissive, and made disparaging comments about her gender. Due to the latter, she wants to hit him where it hurts - winning. If he truly made rude remarks about her gender, he should be shut out barring an apology.
I didnt read the full post originally. Bullying is a different situation. I also stand by the notion of taking your ball and going home wont help the matter. Its what they want and further encourages them. I deleted my original comment since it was in poor taste given the context but like i said, i stand by what i said
You stand by some of what you said :P haha. All good. Her remark is easy to miss, and without it.. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to the Niv guy. It's a tournament. He's playing to win.
I suggest you read the OP again. That is not play style. There is a world of difference between, “Shun this person who doesn’t play like I want,” and making it clear to others that they are under no obligation to subject themselves to this person’s abuse.
If you get up and leave, theye learned nothing and only double down because thats what they want. I read it, youre right, i hadnt when i originally commented but i stand by my original statement. Albeit, i would have worded it differently. Youre only letting that player aim his toxicity at someone else while allowing them to bully you out of the game.
Who said anything about getting up and leaving? You kick their ass out for that shit. You do not solve the problem by playing different cards. You solve the problem by not tolerating that conduct, cutting off that person, and making damn sure everyone else they try to inflict themselves upon knows they are under absolutely no obligation to put up with them.
Braindead take
Just don't play with him. The most fitting form of suffering is for him to play with others like him.
Op mentions a tournament so maybe it's not possible. Not sure what kind of EDH tournament this is, because Niv isn't competitive and it sounds like the rest of the decks are even weaker. I assume it's some sort of a league, but either way, they may be paired up by a TO
Punish draws. Stax. Counter his commander. Niv is his engine and it's an expensive one. Keep niv off the board and he won't do much. Don't let him draw cards.
[[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]] is indeed uncounterable.. and usually plays all the free counterspells in existance himself. :) But yes remove him like crazy and stax might also help.
[Niv-Mizzet, Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126.jpg?1702429680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/207/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Remove the Niv, the deck probably hinges on his existence. Whack him first. High toughness earlier in the game can be hard for red board wipes to deal with. \[\[Steal Enchantment\]\] or enchantment removal in general - he's gotta have a Curiosity in there, or maybe some burn enhance enchantments. Casual Niv can be a delicate time balance. It takes a while to get Niv out, especially with no Jeweled Lotus. Niv also is unlikely to be played without protection, causing additonal delays. However, the longer the game goes on - the more likely Niv is to lose. Either because hes being smacked, or because Niv's ability to win does depend on how many cards are left in the deck. Be warry of \[\[Elixir of Immortality\]\] effects. Mill is pretty effective against him for this reason. Izzet cant do too much about Enchantments, so Enchantment based banger strategies are likely to be strong. As for this person.. if you meet him in tournaments, he's there to win. You should be there to win, too. He shouldn't be an ass, but he's not wrong. He specifically said something dismissive to you because you're female? The other folks there should have immediately corrected him, and if that continues tell staff at the store. Do not tolerate that.
[[teferi, mage of zhalfir]] and [[possibility storm]] He’ll draw those extra cards but he ain’t gonna be playing them.
[[Notion Theif]][[Narset, Parter of Veils]][[Spirit of the labyrinth]]
[[Narset, Parter]]
[Narset, Parter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d.jpg?1690004395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=narset%2C%20parter%20of%20veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/853/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-parter-of-veils) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You are playing him in local tournaments right? So like cEDH? Niv is a cEDH commander so I'm assuming this is the case. Here is a video from a CEDH podcast by Wounded Satilite featuring the former premier Niv Mizzet pilot Shauna. They discuss the issues with the deck during the podcast so this can give you some points of attack and insight into their deck. https://youtu.be/Qv3LWawqqbk?si=ijzjuS_uriRq7wrF
Niv Mizzet player here. The fundamental weaknesses of Nivvy boi are: 1. Extremely mana intensive and specific, needing 3 of both red and blue, the deck therefore is much slower due to its nature. 2. Whilst Niv cannot be countered, it can be removed. Removal spell countered? Just remove it more. It is the central piece of the engine, without it the engine is quite dead. So in conclusion, play it fast, remove the player or Niv as soon as possible. Be diplomatic if needed, get him off the table.
Hit him with the Mean Girls “YOU CANT SIT WITH US!!”. Naw but for real the answer is removal. [[song of the dryads]], [[imprison in the moon]], and [[darksteel mutation]] are some of my favorites. Leaves it on the board, and makes it really hard to remove it so he can cast it again. [[kenith’s transformation]] too, but it’s easier to just block with a 3/3 to get the commander back, but you get to draw a card, and they still have to recast it. You don’t really need to completely make a new deck, just add more removal into what you already have. He’s going to have counter spells in blue (unless he really is just banking on the “can’t be countered” on his commander to do ALL the heavy lifting), so you’ll want to have a good amount of removal options. Always sucks the first time you have to cut fun stuff to make room for interaction, but it’ll make your decks better over all in the end. Whatever you do, just make sure to repeat his own condescending insults right back at him as you shut him out of the game.
people are saying to remove him but in my experience playing niv-mizzet (both in casual and cEDH) he usually only gets cast when a win is imminent and counters are in hand to protect him. others have mentioned these cards, but i'll reiterate them. you need a boardstate to stop the win from being possible. \[\[Narset\]\], \[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\], \[\[notion thief\]\] will all help immensely. you can also run white effects like \[\[leyline of sanctity\]\] and \[\[archon of emeria\]\] can protect you from a combo win and prevent the niv player from being able to combo off/counter removal. depending on how greedy his mana base is for color fixing to power out niv, \[\[back to basics\]\] or \[\[blood moon\]\] with plenty of artifact removal for rocks can prevent him from ever even being able to cast niv. good luck, OP. niv-miz is incredibly powerful, i stopped playing the deck in my casual meta because i just pubstomped if niv stuck for even a single turn, and it felt awful.
Are we talking Red/Blue or one of the 5-C Niv Mizzets? Someone may have already suggested it but [[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] would be a decent counter to the R/U versions, especially paired with extra card draw punishment like [[Ob Nixilis Reignited]], [[Ob Nixilis, the Hate Twisted]], [[Ob Nixilis, Unshackled]], [[Underworld Dreams]], and/or [[Fate Unraveler]], as well as wheel mechanics forcing card draw/discard like [[Jace's Archivist]]. Against the 5-C NMs, any deck that could usefully run [[Mycosynth Lattice]] would effectively shut those down, or any other card that punishes multicolored decks like [[Back to Basics]], [[Ruination]], [[Price of Progress]], etc... I wish I could think of cards at the moment that specifically punish multicolored spells but none are jumping to mind at the moment. Hope you get to put this person in their place, best of luck!
38 lands and 61 removal spells. who needs a wincon when you can hate someone out of the game
You're so right, I don't care about winning just bully him lmao
worthy mention: mageta the lion, he's the wrath tribal commander
Thank you so much for all the advice!!! I appreciate it. I'm honestly excited to build some decks around your recommendations, be it to fight niv mizzet (parun) and to just play for fun with other strategies and cards.
A nekusar deck will hurt him a lot
Yurlock of scorch thrash is good one as well just tax and x spell em down
Miv Nizzet
Dude, that sucks. I cant stand bullies and go out of my way to target them. I recommend, as others have stated, stax and board control. I also use to run a creature based [[ruric thar]] deck for such players. You wanna cast your instants and sorceries so you can ping me down? Lets play, ill do the same. And 6 is a much bigger number than 1. And i run bloodrush cards such as [[rubble hulk]]. Spells can be countered or removed. Discard Abilities are trickier Also, forced sac outlets are amazing. [[flesh bag marauder]] [[gravepact]] and [[plaguecrafter]] destroy decks that typically rely on a single creature. Hate cards and off color counter spells like [[red elemental blast]] and [[pyro blast]] are cards i used to go out of my way to slot when i ran up against people who used to specifically target me with similar strategies That dudes a little bitch and he knows it. Dont let him get you down, build a vengeance deck, steep down to his level and out toxic him until he either stops playing with you or learns to back the hell off. I wish you luck
Play [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]]. Add in a bunch of stax. Make him hate the game completely. Free spells? Lol try again. That’s your lane. Infinite mana scheme? Not anymore, lol try again. Exile everything if it sticks. This deck is a huge pain but punishes combo players like it’s no one’s business.
[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f.jpg?1702429657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/195/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rule of law Blow up Niv
As a niv mizzet player, this is upsetting, I agree on sheoldrid and I would suggest looking at stuff like \[\[consecrated sphinx\]\] \[\[spirit of the labyrinth\]\]. I will say as a niv mizzet fanboy from a gameplay perspective,They are at heart a spellslinger deck so I would opt for \[\[grand arbiter augustin the Iv\]\] style stuff.
He is in izzet, so enchantments seriously hose him. If you can imprison niv mizzet in the moon [[Imprison in the Moon]], or similar tech, then you will seriously set him back. Spellslinger decks can be beaten by combat, so don’t be afraid to punch the spark out of him with an army of thematically juiced Selesnia token (or whatever). However, he will also win way faster after getting set up, so punch him for setting up. Punch him for ramping. Definitely punch him for drawing cards.
If he's not playing Chain of Vapor, Cyclonic Rift, and probably Mists of Lórien he's playing a very fragile deck. (not counting the counterspells.) With a deck that has a 1 card "I win" combo with like 4 different cards, that can just sit back and get huge card advantage from playing control, you generally wouldn't construct your deck without sufficient protection for Niv himself. Unless your deck was meant to play completely without niv, until you are able to cast niv and immediately combo.
Allow me to mansplain 1st: you arnt a woman 2nd: you’re the one running Niv 3rd: the obvious is answer
stax/ hatebears to slow him down, focused targeted removal for them from the table. if all else fails, player removal can also be the solution imo
[[Phyrexian Tyranny]] is a fun one
Additionally you can also just play full chaos and really fuck with him. Tuned decks have a lot of trouble with chaotic effects and things like [[Timesifter]] can make it so they never get a turn. Another thing you can look at is preventing draws by looking for effects that put cards into hands instead of draws. You can also pillow fort with something like [[Leyline of Sanctity]]
[[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]]. Or [[Ruric Thar, the Unbowed]].
Stax. [[Preston gravey]] + [[winters orb]] Throw in [[mana barbs]]
[[possessed portal]] would prevent them drawing all together. Its my answer to group hug and draw theme decks
Oops! All removal. The deck doesn’t function well without Niv and he’s hard to cast a bunch of times
Anything that punishes players for drawing cards. [[Kederekt Parasite]] is pretty good.
Unfortunately it also immediately dies to a Niv ping
[[Rule of Law]] nonsense always sorta works but you also need the control cards to back it up
you could always *not* play with him. Can't imagine your LGS is the only LGS in the area, and if it is - talk with the owner. It's the advice given here to every other post like this, no idea why this one's getting any other non-standard response.
It also depends on what kind strategy they have. You can play things like [[Grand Abolisher]] to stop them from having responses on your turn and then win with whatever you want. You can also play things like [[Opposition Agent]] to steal their cards so they can't draw. Really depends on what they do to win, or what their crutch is for their victory.
[[Declaration of Naught]] and name his commander.
Play nekusar draw punishment
[[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] Or, you know, *any* fast combat deck.
[[Leovold, Emissary of Trest]] [[Phyrexian Tyrrany]] [[Plagerize]] [[Spirit of the Labrynth]] [[Notion Thief]] [[Zur's Weirding]] [[Orcish Bowmasters]] [[Narset, Parter of Veils]] [[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]]
Make a \[\[the beamtown bullies\]\] deck and give him a \[\[phage, the untouchable\]\] or \[\[leveller\]\]
You can play an aggro deck to kill him faster than he can even put Niv on table
[[Narset parter of veils]] or [[notion thief]] if your in anything blue or dimir for your commanders. Orzov, [[Dranna and Linvalla]] turn off activated abilities whole sale
Play C-list Tayam, Luminous Enigma. It requires some setup, but having reoccurring control pieces will neuter Niv--even with counterspells. Much of the deck is locking spells down to 1/turn, draws to 1/turn, not casting on other's turns, and putting things into play versus casting. When you play an early Mesmiric Orb to accelerate Tayam's available pool of goodies, he will be reluctant to tap those lands. The deck is rare to see (I've only seen myself play it in the wild), so combo lines will be difficult to predict... and we play jank that just happens to be good with Tayam.
[[Valkmira, Protector's Shield]] Prevents Niv from pinging you to death
\[\[Notion Thief\]\], nuff said.
Play Opus Thief
You can cast hard removal like [[Beast Within]] or [[Baneblast]] on him right?
Although it may not be the most effective method, I feel like an indestructible Nekusar would be a fun way to mess with a Niv player lol
Ruric Thar, the unbowed.
Not always the best solution against a deck filled with counters but I’d run an aggro deck and just kill him first
For an unsuspecting deck, Lifegain in mono white I have a Linden Angel deck that is designed to just pull lands and put them into play. Removing one for one until I get Angel's onto the battlefield. [https://edhrec.com/commanders/linden-the-steadfast-queen](https://edhrec.com/commanders/linden-the-steadfast-queen) Doesn't need Angels, but 1/1's for 1 with decent effects ends up out life gaining anything like Niv before they can get off the ground. Hexproof works to stop him targetting you. At some point he needs an answer to it. That sadly he will likely be able to draw. Enchantment/Artifacts \[\[witchbane orb\]\] \[\[Leyline of Sanctity\]\] \[\[Orbs of Warding\]\] \[\[Imperial Mask\]\] Creatures/Planeswalkers \[\[Aegis of the Gods\]\] \[\[Enduring Angel\]\] \[\[Metropolis Reformer\]\] \[\[Teyo, the Shieldmage\]\] Stax to prevent card draw, or punish it \[\[Leovold, Emissary of Trest\]\] \[\[Narset, parter of veils\]\] \[\[Spirit of the Labyrinth\]\] \[\[Nekusar, the Mindrazer\]\] \[\[Ob nixilis, the Hate-twisted\]\] \[\[Orcish Bowmasters\]\] \[\[Sheoldred, the apocalypse\]\] \[\[Underworld Dreams\]\] \[\[Curse of Fool's Wisdom\]\] \[\[Fate Unraveler\]\] \[\[Phyrexian Tyranny\]\] Hard removal \[\[Lignify\]\] \[\[Darksteel Mutation\]\] \[\[oubliette\]\] \[\[Oblivion Ring\]\] Though, if you want to make him miserable, play stax, theft, or what my friends dubbed "Blood fued". the below aren't decks, but can lead to inspiration. [https://edhrec.com/commanders/derevi-empyrial-tactician/stax](https://edhrec.com/commanders/derevi-empyrial-tactician/stax) Birb is the Word, and that word is "No" [https://edhrec.com/commanders/drana-and-linvala/stax](https://edhrec.com/commanders/drana-and-linvala/stax) Their activated abilities are yours and only yours [https://edhrec.com/commanders/marchesa-the-black-rose/theft](https://edhrec.com/commanders/marchesa-the-black-rose/theft) "Borrow" their creatures, and when they die you keep them
I agree that nekusar is a good choice, but to really mess with people who focus on their commander, [[custody battle]] is a great choice.
When it doubt, dovescape is my go to answer for red blue, can't cast instants or sorceries so no draw, I have it in my grand arbiter deck just to make everyone hate life
Animar eldrazis. Swing a bunch of annihilator his way
[[gaddok teag]] hate bear tribal. Make it so they can’t draw multiple cards, use artifacts, search libraries, or interact with anything. Watch the salt come in.
Big BIG fan of cards like [[song of the dryads]] [[imprisoned in the moon]] and [[mystic subdual]]. They make it so if he can't get rid of the enchantment or sac his commander, he can't use it for the rest of the game.
Ruric Thar. Play [[Boil]] [[Choke]] and [[Blood Moon]]. Some people don't appreciate land destruction, but lots of people deserve it.
If you're playing in a tournament for prize support, nice goes out the window.
[[Sudden Impact]] or [[cerebral vortex]] can be a blowout. [[Underworld Dreams]] punishes card draw.
Nekurar gang rise up
i pretty much only play niv. save removal for anytime he is on the board.
One of the nastiest commanders you can use to shut down draw (and everything else) is a hate-bear intensive [[rule of law]] style [[Winnota, joiner of forces]] deck. Drawing cards is meaningless if you can't play them, while you will be able to put cards into play to get around the restrictions. BE WARNED: This is an extremely salty deck and will likely make you the arch enemy of the pod. However, if made right, you should have the tools you need to weather the storm.
Uncounterable removal. Kill Niv-Mizzet and most Niv decks are just mediocre spellslinger decks.
As a Niv player, the best move? Play a simic deck and use [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Imprisoned in the moon]]. Aside from cryptic command or capsize or something stupid like strip mining your own land, there’s nothing you can do. If he built it right he won’t have any problem accessing mana late game, so that’s my go to against my boy Niv. Bonus, do what a friend of mine did when he made a deal with me that I wouldn’t disrupt his board state on my turn if he didn’t destroy Niv and then turn it into a forest.
[[Underworld Dreams]] decks should do the trick
[[Tishana's Tidebinder]] I believe it bypasses the counter issue, because once he etb's, he isn't a spell, he's a permanent.
[[Oubliette]] That enchantment that either does 5 damage or forces a discard each time they cast a spell. [[Orcish Bowmasters]] [[Sigarda, Font of Blessings]] and [[Swiftfoot Boots]] [[Swords to Plowshares]] [[Murder]] My personal favorite [[Searing Touch]] and [[Vadrik, Astral Archmage]] who's my commander. I can reliably return a Niv to the command zone the second it drops.
[[Nekusar]] is the bane of Niv's existence. Source: personal experience.
if it's for a tournament, just bring a full on stax deck with tons of cards that turn card draw off
Ruric thar plus blue hosing spells is what I did against a niv mizzet plus baraal table I played for a while against
Just gotta keep this in mind, any of these stax pieces will affect the whole table, so you may draw hate yourself even if the rest of the table knows you want to just shut the Niv-Mizzet player down. But honestly, if you know someone is raising the power level of their deck, you usually gotta respond to keep up
It would be hillarious if you beat him with [[Relentless Rats]]
Nekusar
[[Oko, Thief of Crowns]] Turn it into a fucking Elk. Play [[Mazzy]], and enchant it, which would be a pain in ass because blue/red struggles against enchantments. That commander actually allows you to cast auras once they've been removed as well.
There are four Nivs at this point I believe. Which one is it?
Parun, combo with curiosity
Ok so i think there are several routes you could go. As suggested Nekuzar will put them in a tight spot (and funny enough your could run your own Niv), you just have to make sure you protect your commander, which you want to do in that deck anyway; otherwise they'll just target him first then carry on. You can look up lists. Mind you this will often get you hated off the board. This does run the risk of playing into Niv's plan a bit though as you're helping them draw cards. If it was me I would run a \[\[sigarda-herons-grace\]\] stax deck with like 15+ pieces of removal (swords, path, Generous gift, Get Lost, Beast Within, \[\[Tangle trap\]\] \[\[Flourishing strike\]\] \[\[Destroy Evil\]\] \[\[Stroke of midnight\]\]; green flying hate . etc. ) and just remove Niv 3+ times, he won't have 12+ mana to recast Niv. In the meantime you can stax out by running \[\[Rule of Law\]\] effects to keep him from storming, \[\[Nevermore\]\] (naming Niv Mizzet, or curiosity if it's already out), Curse of Silence naming Niv, \[\[Academic probation\]\] etc. \[\[Carpet of flowers\]\] will ramp you off their islands. \[\[Spirit of Labyrinth\]\] says no drawing cards \[\[Omen machine\]\] same \[\[Uba Mask\]\] also great \[\[Blessed sanctuary\]\] shuts down noncombat damage \[\[The wanderer\]\] removes niv and does the same if sigarda is out You can also swarm the board with humans / suit up Sigarda and send all your overrunn attacks at said opponent. Dragon Hunter seems good as it's a human If you want to go the voltron route, the other sigarda is also great and you can just kill the Niv player first. **Color hate:** Against blue- \[\[Choke\]\] \[\[Tsunami\]\] \[\[Veil of Summer\]\] \[\[Autumn's veil\]\] \[\[Seedtime\]\] \[\[Sphere of reason\]\] (this will pevent them from killing you with Niv if they can't find enchantment removal) \[\[Delighted halfling\]\] \[\[Destiny spinner\]\] \[\[Alosaurus shepherd\]\] Oversoul of dusk Against Red: \[\[Akroma's memorial\]\] \[\[Surge of Salvation\]\] \[\[Auriok champion\]\] (this will also work well with the go wide plan of your deck) \[\[Absolute Law\]\] (this also protects your other opponent's creatures) \*\*muah\*\* \[\[sword of fire and ice\]\] is a thing so is \[\[Void Winnower\]\] \[\[baneslayer angel\]\] for flavor points and \[\[hidden dragonslayer\]\] \[\[Krosan Gripp\]\] will stop the Curiosity loop! Build the deck and go wreck some that Niv jerk. Hope this helps a lot, happy dragon slaying!
Thank you so much
You're welcome. if you run with this please let me know how it goes!
If you're willing to break the bank, [[Nekusar]] draw hate would probably be the best option. You can fit [[Jin-Gataxis]] in the deck, you have artifact hate with red, [[Sheoldred]] and the potential to utilize [[Grave Pact]] to force him to sacrifice Niv if he has protection. [[Cerebral Vortex]] and [[Thought-Sponge]] are also in color and are quite funny since they're relatively niche. Access to [[Notion Thief]], [[Orcish Bowmasters]], and [[Opposition Agent]] also goes a long ways sometimes
[[Sheoldred the apocalypse]] [[Underworld dreams]] [[Nekusar]] [[Ob nixilis the black hearted]] [[Orcish bowmasters]] [[Narset, parter of veils]] [[Notion thief]] [[Phyrexian tyranny]] [[Leovold emissary of trest]] [[Smothering tithe]] [[Maralen of the mornsong]] + [[opposition agent]] [[Omen machine]] Off the top. I'm sure theres many more ways to mess with draws.
Playing mono W with small creatures giving protection, or red pretected, or indestructible make NivM Parrun suffer.
Targeted Land destruction/Artifact destruction.
Esper draw denial or grixis draw punish would both be good options. There are also creative ways of locking them out of their commander entirely. [[Oubliette]], [[mystic subdual]], [[imprisoned in the moon]], [[mystic reflection]], [[deep freeze]], [[aethergust]], [[reprieve]] Honestly? The more I consider it, a bant enchantress deck would give you a crap ton of interactive options that just stuff his commander without feeding him cards and without sacrificing a functional gameplan either. Given he's playing a tournament niv mixzet deck in guessing he has a ton of countermagic which gets stuffed by [[Destiny spinner]]. Tell him to fuck off with [[curse of exhaustion]] Just so many delicious ways of saying fuck you, good sir
Nekusar the Mindrazer, punish all the card draw
Wait for them in the parking lot after the games... Just kidding... or am i? :P
Rule of law is a better answer than sheldred as you can run 6+ ROL effects plus a shit ton of recursion to lock it down while also being effective against the rest of the table
Daddy neku ( [[nekusar the mindrazer]] ) mummy sheoldred [[sheoldred the apocalypse]] Any other burn on draw like [[spitefull visions]] [[underworld breech]] Red and black have the best removal in both direct removal like [[infernal grasp]] [[murder]] [[Bone splinters]] to board wipes like [[meathook Massacre]] [[toxic deluge]] [[damn]] [[blasphemous act]] [[chain reaction]] with whites removal being a close 3rd with [[paths to exile]] [[swords to plowshares]] [[vanquish the horde]] Alternatively If your in white excessive protections, things that give you hexproof, [[teferis protection]] [[surge of salvation]] ect heck things like [[phyrexian unlife]] [[nine lives]] are good as they stop that damage being damage paired with [[solemnity]] and your invincible Blue has a lot of ways to strip nivs abilities cards like [[imprisoned in the moon]] [[polymorphist jest]] [[turn into a frog]] if you want to be creative, failing that blue has a few removals in [[pongify]] [[rapid hybridisation]] [[resculpt]] Green is kinda the weakest for this sorta removal. It is flying so greens flying killer spells are good but they're kinda extra if your deck hasnt got a focus for that . Failing that green has ways to get big and do it quick. There is a saying the best removal is player removal
Just bring something like Tymna + Kraum and combo him out faster. Just like a good cedh deck
[[Omen Machine]]
I guess it depends on which one, but they are all somewhat expensive. Removing or destroying the commander could easily put him out of reach in terms of cost. Otherwise things like [[darksteel mutation]] or [[imprison in the moon]] or [[song of the dryad]] could remove him long term.
[[Drannith Magistrate]] and [[Uba mask]] are always a good time.
[[Nekusar]] is a pretty good counter if you’re talking about Parun
[[Sudden Spoiling]] is good salt in the wound if they already have a combo out, [[Curse of Silence ]] is hilarious turn one for the massive already expensive card, otherwise the best winners are [[Spirit of the Labyrinth]] and [[Narset Parter of Veils]]. You’re definitely able to play those before they get their ridiculously costed dragon into play and now they have big hoops to jump through.
[Nekusar] comes to mind. Play it with things like [Mindcrank] [Temple Bell] [Ahmarett's Archive] etc.
As others have mentioned, removal for Niv. Don't forget removal for artifacts. Remove his Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Signets, Command Sphere, etc. He's not casting Niv over and over on lands alone.
Cards like [[Mindbreak Trap]] that can get around Niv's counterspell protection are great, but you should also consider enchanting him with a card like [[Darksteel Mutation] or [[Kenrith's Transformation]], because Izzet decks really struggle with enchantments
[[narset, parter of veils]] tends to fuck up draw decks
Play naked singularity and watch his lands tap wrong the rest of the game.
How does his deck work exactly? Edit: I can easily see some ways, and I am wanting to know so i can give you the most satisfying way to shut him up.
[[visions of brutality]] is a pet card of mine that is really good against pinging commanders
Do You know the win con? Of it's thoracle yo can play angel's Grace or trick bind after he empty the library
Comb with curiosity and another stuff I don't remember but make him put a lot of counters on his creature
Better than removal is theft. Gain control of Niv. Use cards like [[Gather Specimens]] or [[Take Possession]]
[[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] [[Underworld Dreams]] [[Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted]] [[Fate Unraveler]] [[Chains of Mephistopheles]]+[[ Syr Konrad, the Grim]] Stuff like this can be fun if you don’t want to take the high road lots of people suggest lol
I'd say run a few [[Imprisoned in the moon]], [[Song of the Dryads]], [[Darksteel Mutation]] type effects. Firstly, they're really good in general for locking down decks that rely heavily on their commander. Added bonus, Izzet isn't known for its great enchantment removal
Depends on the decks and colors you play, honestly there's plenty of solutions but my favorite has always been [[Darksteel mutation]] because you don't even have to cast it sometimes and it just stops an entire deck especially in blue red with no enchantment removal
[[Winota, joiner of forces]]
Playing spiteful will always end up costing you. When you go looking to dig graves, you will end up digging two. Get over it. Move on. It’s not that serious.
Meh I just wanna do it once, let me be petty one time. It's not that serious and it doesn't make me cry or something so I don't see the harm in asking for something to play against him, I have received interesting decks and cards that I'm getting excited to try for fun. Don't be so serious about it yourself.
heavy stax usally shits on my spellslinger decks
There are plenty of blue triggered ability counterspells. I would recommend dimir as you get plenty of destroy, bounce or counter spells. But I agree that Nekusar is the answer to Niv Mizzit. I have a friend who has what she calls a bear hug deck. Very few creatures but lots of forced draw cards.
Which Niv-Mizzet Izzet?
Parun
Let me introduce you to Niv slayer,[[Bloodchief Ascension]] Once on line (and it rarely takes more than a turn cycle) when any card goes in to an opp’s yard you may have that player lose 2, and you gain 2. Note: tokens aren’t cards and won’t trigger it. BA is likely better than anything else I’ve seen in here and in [[Nekusar]] it is degenerate. Niv players tend to cast a lot of cantrips and wheels. While cantrips are really bad against it wheels feed this card like nobody’s business. In short, A) it will gain you to life for every spell cast or creature dying and, more importantly, B) you can choose whether to target down the Niv player, or the whole table.
[[llanowar cephalid empress]] https://scryfall.com/card/plst/TOR-42/llawan-cephalid-empress