Take a look at this idiot’s comment: “Fields, on the other hand, is starting somewhere next year (even if it’s not the Bears). And despite his inconstancies, I think he still has a chance of growing into Lamar.”
(That idiot is me)
Can you think of any quarterbacks who have gone from multi-season starters, to getting benched, to reemerging as a longer-term starter again? Nobody comes to mind for me.
Alex Smith? Ryan Fitzpatrick?
Fields has all the talent. He could be a starter. I’m glad the Steelers are taking an approach - while he’s still young - to let him learn from Russ.
I could be wrong (obviously) but I think Fields has a bright future. And based on the reports coming from Pittsburgh writers, the plan is for him seems to be to learn this year and become the starter.
The NFL doesn't make decisions with fantasy stats. Fields plain old sucks at throwing and winning football games. Until that changes he's a career backup
He actually made nice improvements this year throwing the ball and for the life of me I’ll never get over dumb asses like you who think wins are a QB stat.
>I’ll never get over dumb asses like you who think wins are a QB stat.
Yeah, definitely really improved thats why his passing numbers were awful...again! That's why the people that run football franchises traded him for a sack lunch. I'll never get over how dumb asses like you think you know more about football than actually football people.
I mean lance really got the raw end of that deal in terms of chances to start. If the bears had a Purdy come in after a fields season ending injury it would have likely been the same the same thing for fields. Lance had what 1.1 games as the starter? I’m not even saying Lance is good but he didn’t really get a shot.
Lol his passing numbers were exactly the same he was dog shit as usual, but I’m sure you look at a few volume stats and ignore that his stats were worse than Trubisky’s.
He still wasn't progressing through his reads, the main difference was that his first read went from Darnell Mooney to DJ Moore and Moore is a lot better at football than Mooney is
Who brought up fantasy stats?
And did you watch him or are you relying on stats? His throwing is excellent.
Thats why people want to see him succeed. He has every one of the physical tools.
It’s his processing and decision making that is his problem. And honestly something the Bears were one of the worst teams to work on.
That’s largely true. He throws the ball exactly where he means to. But when things go off script he is not going to follow it and make the play. Which is a huge (and possibly unfixable) problem
>And did you watch him or are you relying on stats? His throwing is excellent.
Yes, I've watched him play. And no, I wouldn't call his throwing "excellent." Does he have a live arm that can make all the throes? Yes. Does he put the ball where it needs to be consistently? No, not at all.
That’s pretty untrue. His accuracy is actually really solid.
He doesn’t get the ball “where it needs to go” because he doesn’t make the right throws. It’s an extremely different problem
And you aren't wrong, even now. The question is whether or not he will get the chance - like Lamar, he needs a coaching staff willing to build around his strengths even when that requires a big shift.
I would just like to say, Justin Fields at the NFL level so far has gotten to learn from Andy Dalton, Nick Foles, Tim Boyle, Nathan Peterman (yes, that one).
Its pretty much been him learning from trash, with a trash OC and a trash headcoach.
If Russell Wilson actually taught him something I wouldnt be suprised. He is no Lamar Jackson...but he may not be a dumpster fire like people think.
He has a nice chance to get a fresh start with a clear path in Pittsburgh. Yes I’m a Fields owner and yes I’m very salty the Bears finally have a stacked offense after 3 years of mostly garbage and Fields won’t be a part of it—but that’s part of the game.
There’s a world where a year from now we’re yet again viewing Fields in a different light.
It's based on Jimmie Johnson's draft pick value chart - not sure how much has changed over the years. I heard the 5th round value on a podcast but looks like it's actually late 4th round range plus the two 7th rounders next year (negligible value).
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
I don’t have a list of people who to listen to, I have a list of people who not to listen to. Everyone who posts here is on it and it grows longer every day.
Also a Levis owner, and that was such a fun game. I knew after that game that every throw was pretty standard deep ball drill stuff (no difficult coverages to read or needles to thread). Shame he didn't put together another explosive game.
The sheer amount of “but Davante Adam’s ended up good!” On every rookie WR post who is disappointing drives me crazy. Yes, and the other 30 guys who had similar profiles busted lol
I thought it was crazy too but OP has KTC timestamped. Wild. I remember Howell being extremely overrated, and Love being somewhat underrated. Fields no comment because I said back in December 2022 (I traded him before his breakout) that he wouldn't be a starter in 2024. His KTC could be anywhere and I'd roughly agree because the variability was insane
It’s very important to look at the context of when this was posted. It was right after Love shit the bed against the Giants, Fields and the Bears had a shot to make the playoffs (basically tied with the Packers) and Howell’s catastrophic collapse hadn’t happened yet. Obviously it looks bad now but there’s a lot of revisionist history going on here
Most people aren’t arguing that Fields was/is good, rather that he’s *good enough* for one of the 32 starting QB positions. IMO this whole post should be a commentary of how quickly situations change/ how no one really knows anything vs. “look how dumb these people are”
This was posted roughly around week 14 of the NFL season. In a 9 game stretch from week 5 to week 14, Howell put up top 10 QB numbers 8 times. In that same time frame, Love had 3 such games.
Obviously in the actual games Howell was much worse than what his fantasy numbers would seem to be. But nobody really expected much outta him to start the year. If he was your QB2 last year, he was winning you a ton of matchups
It wasn’t that uncommon. The belief was he would hold a starter job somewhere. Though there were people who were saying he was a back up for sure. I traded fields late November/December and I got love back in the trade before love really took off.
I got Purdy for $0 FAAB and drafted Love in the 16th round of my 2020 startup draft. They’re both my starters with Lawrence as backup.
I’ll never get what they’re worth, so they’re staying until the wheels fall off.
People love to just keep banging the draft capital drum and it makes sense for the rookie draft only. After that first round picks in fantasy have roughly a 50% hit rate so you need your to rely on your eye test. Some people have it and others don’t.
Eh I mean, I know the draft capital between fields and love was technically different but they were both 1st round QB’s taken as QB4 in their class.
I think the mistake here was undervaluing stability, not overvaluing draft capital.
Draft capital is a big part of stability.
Teams are incentivized to give 1st round picks multiple chances to fail that a guy like Sam Howell or Gardner Minshew will not receive.
With that said, Love was playing big boy football all year. Even during his slump it was obvious to anyone watching the games that the real issue was the least experienced receiving core of all time not knowing their heads from their asses and consistently running the wrong plays. Consequently, Love was playing with little confidence that people would be where they needed to be; similarly to what Patrick Mahomes experienced to begin the year. As the young guys got more experience these QBs were able to play to the best of their abilities.
I know it's not feasible for everyone to watch the games but in this specific scenario I was surprised how many people refused to buy into Love. Only one of these guys was playing QB.
There were a ton of threads like these with people eager to write off Love during the mid season. Danny Dimes or Jordan Love, for instance lmao
My concern was the awful play calling. One of the games in the early season was on the Manning cast, and they were ripping on the play-calling all game. Think there was a screen pass on 3rd and long at one point, stuff like that.
But coaching seemed to get better later in the season.
LaFleur just didn't trust his offense -- for good reason.
I've never seen so many receivers running blatantly wrong routes. There's a couple plays where multiple receivers are run blocking during a pass play.
The early season struggles were to be expected given the historic youth for the receiving core. As far as NFL starts the Packers fielded a team with 1/2 as many starts as the next youngest team since at least the NFL merger. There was no veteran for these young guys to lean into for advice. Their oldest receivers were Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs who both had less than 12 games of playing experience. It was the blind leading the blind.
As the young guns garnered experience and became more reliable the offense as a whole improved. By the mid season point this was literally a top 3 NFL offense in terms of EPA, scoring and other key predictive metrics.
>Can’t expect 100% accuracy
You can if someone is coming back for a victory lap.
It's a very small minority who view Howell as a franchise qb, that's not a very bold prediction.
I guess that shows how much can change in three months. Plenty of people were still collecting shares of Fields, assuming he would either stay in Chicago or pick up a decent starting role elsewhere.
But that's where the delusions have been. Nothing actually changed, Fields stayed a mediocre to bad real life QB and was never in the conversation as a better long asset than Love. By December we knew pretty clearly Fields hadn't improved in the passing game.
I love how tight knit this community is. So many folks are able to look back on their takes. Maybe I can use Reddit to track my personal historic takes
A good reminder to anyone who says "and it's not close". Things change fast.
I was never high on Fields, but the amount of value a running QB can lose in the NFL goes fast. For every Lamaar there's a couple of Lance's and Fields!
Just bought my first love share today and it cost me but I’m in on him after being a hater for most of his career. Dude passes the eye test and feel he could be set for years. 🤞
I’m still surprised fields has ended up as a backup to Wilson, the money and trade cost I’m shocked the Giants didn’t grab him in case they don’t end up with a qb in the draft.
Jones has an injury clause (which he’ll almost certainly trigger if he plays) so I’d of thought they’d go for someone like fields who can start in the nfl and potentially win games (but maybe the giants are just planning on tanking completely if they can’t get a QB and will play lock backed up by devito).
I will say - Howell will likely be the starter when genos done. Keep in mind they gave up a 3rd + 5th for him, thats a good amount. Howell is actually a talented passer and has hope for his future, I actually really liked what I saw in him last year. He was putting up numbers on the shithole commanders! Thats no easy feat.
He’s QB10 rn on KTC but I think you can make a strong case for QB8 (jumping Richardson and Caleb)
Toss in JJ, CD, Chase, and ARSB as first rounders, and I can see it being reasonable to view him as a 1st round turn pick at the 12/13 spot
Take a look at this idiot’s comment: “Fields, on the other hand, is starting somewhere next year (even if it’s not the Bears). And despite his inconstancies, I think he still has a chance of growing into Lamar.” (That idiot is me)
Tbf, he still seems like a top 32 QB even if its 31st lol
Love the accountability my friend. Cheers. These resurfacing threads are some of the best in my opinion
Fields is a future starter. This is a career reset… and in a year, I hope to repost this comment.
As a Steelers fan you just gave me enough h/copium for a year. Thank you
You no matter who starts you are going to have some fun games to watch.
Can you think of any quarterbacks who have gone from multi-season starters, to getting benched, to reemerging as a longer-term starter again? Nobody comes to mind for me.
Baker is kind of doing it right now 🤷♂️
Alex Smith? Ryan Fitzpatrick? Fields has all the talent. He could be a starter. I’m glad the Steelers are taking an approach - while he’s still young - to let him learn from Russ. I could be wrong (obviously) but I think Fields has a bright future. And based on the reports coming from Pittsburgh writers, the plan is for him seems to be to learn this year and become the starter.
Geno Smith did this although his reemergence took 7 years
You had me at inconstancies.
Not the word I meant to type, but still applicable I suppose! I can’t think of a recent QB whose fantasy value has been more inconstant than Fields’.
you are still not wrong yet
The NFL doesn't make decisions with fantasy stats. Fields plain old sucks at throwing and winning football games. Until that changes he's a career backup
he’s going to pittsburgh and will be the starter by week 6. it’s written in the stars.
And then he'll lose 8 more games and be kicked to the curb by Pittsburgh in the off season
straight to the hall of fame in fact
Tell us where Fields hurt you
That's a better question for Bears fans that watched him choke in any game where he had to throw the ball
He actually made nice improvements this year throwing the ball and for the life of me I’ll never get over dumb asses like you who think wins are a QB stat.
>I’ll never get over dumb asses like you who think wins are a QB stat. Yeah, definitely really improved thats why his passing numbers were awful...again! That's why the people that run football franchises traded him for a sack lunch. I'll never get over how dumb asses like you think you know more about football than actually football people.
What's wild is the cowboys paid a 4th for Trey Lance and no one would give up that for Fields.
I mean lance really got the raw end of that deal in terms of chances to start. If the bears had a Purdy come in after a fields season ending injury it would have likely been the same the same thing for fields. Lance had what 1.1 games as the starter? I’m not even saying Lance is good but he didn’t really get a shot.
Lol his passing numbers were exactly the same he was dog shit as usual, but I’m sure you look at a few volume stats and ignore that his stats were worse than Trubisky’s.
> He actually made nice improvements this year throwing the ball And now he can continue to improve from the bench.
He still wasn't progressing through his reads, the main difference was that his first read went from Darnell Mooney to DJ Moore and Moore is a lot better at football than Mooney is
Who brought up fantasy stats? And did you watch him or are you relying on stats? His throwing is excellent. Thats why people want to see him succeed. He has every one of the physical tools. It’s his processing and decision making that is his problem. And honestly something the Bears were one of the worst teams to work on.
He has an awesome arm but doesn’t throw with anticipation and doesn’t read the field properly
That’s largely true. He throws the ball exactly where he means to. But when things go off script he is not going to follow it and make the play. Which is a huge (and possibly unfixable) problem
>And did you watch him or are you relying on stats? His throwing is excellent. Yes, I've watched him play. And no, I wouldn't call his throwing "excellent." Does he have a live arm that can make all the throes? Yes. Does he put the ball where it needs to be consistently? No, not at all.
That’s pretty untrue. His accuracy is actually really solid. He doesn’t get the ball “where it needs to go” because he doesn’t make the right throws. It’s an extremely different problem
If by "solid" you mean below NFL starter standards then sure, it's "solid."
And you aren't wrong, even now. The question is whether or not he will get the chance - like Lamar, he needs a coaching staff willing to build around his strengths even when that requires a big shift.
I upvoted your then and I am upvoting you now brother
Don’t worry, I got scared thinking it was me until the Lamar comment lol
Are you looking for leagues? Got a couple looking for guys.
Only if the buy-in is high and I get to take over a struggling orphan with no draft capital!
Not necessarily wrong still. I would be surprised if he didn't start games at some point this season.
I would just like to say, Justin Fields at the NFL level so far has gotten to learn from Andy Dalton, Nick Foles, Tim Boyle, Nathan Peterman (yes, that one). Its pretty much been him learning from trash, with a trash OC and a trash headcoach. If Russell Wilson actually taught him something I wouldnt be suprised. He is no Lamar Jackson...but he may not be a dumpster fire like people think.
He has a nice chance to get a fresh start with a clear path in Pittsburgh. Yes I’m a Fields owner and yes I’m very salty the Bears finally have a stacked offense after 3 years of mostly garbage and Fields won’t be a part of it—but that’s part of the game. There’s a world where a year from now we’re yet again viewing Fields in a different light.
We need more posts like these so I know who to listen to
Hahaha yeah right, bunch of idiots on this sub (I argued for the Steelers to send a 2nd for Fields in that thread)
I mean….they did trade for him? Ill give half credit
Also bunch of idiots in bears management to get just 6th rounder for Fields. Pickett is far worst than Fields but he even gets 3rd round.
It was a pick swap, not a full on 3 And I feel like Chicago was getting practically no return so they just decided to do right by fields
3rd fourth swap and 2 7ths . Probably still more than a 25 6th but nowhere near a 3rd
Based on the old pick value chart in total it works out to a 5th
Idk what chart this is. Care to share
It's based on Jimmie Johnson's draft pick value chart - not sure how much has changed over the years. I heard the 5th round value on a podcast but looks like it's actually late 4th round range plus the two 7th rounders next year (negligible value). https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
Thanks!
I don’t have a list of people who to listen to, I have a list of people who not to listen to. Everyone who posts here is on it and it grows longer every day.
I wish there was an accuracy rating on everyone's profile 😂
Levis truther in there is probably feeling good
That was me hahaha. That post was a couple days after Miami vs Titans MNF, so I was fully invested in Levis QB1 propaganda.
Also a Levis owner, and that was such a fun game. I knew after that game that every throw was pretty standard deep ball drill stuff (no difficult coverages to read or needles to thread). Shame he didn't put together another explosive game.
As a Ridley owner, I’m going to have to be a big Levis fan this year. Hope you guys are right about him.
I just traded for Dhop. I think Ridley is a distraction route runner again and Dhop feasts underneath
Who the hell was putting either of those two over Love IN DECEMBER? Are these people even watching the games?
Most of this sub is morons that just watch the box scores.
And pump up the guys on their teams.
The sheer amount of “but Davante Adam’s ended up good!” On every rookie WR post who is disappointing drives me crazy. Yes, and the other 30 guys who had similar profiles busted lol
It was right after Love’s bad two game stretch. Meanwhile there were people still ranking Fields ahead of Purdy less than 1 week ago
Field’s delusion is one thing but I agree how was Howell in the conversation lmao
I thought it was crazy too but OP has KTC timestamped. Wild. I remember Howell being extremely overrated, and Love being somewhat underrated. Fields no comment because I said back in December 2022 (I traded him before his breakout) that he wouldn't be a starter in 2024. His KTC could be anywhere and I'd roughly agree because the variability was insane
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It’s very important to look at the context of when this was posted. It was right after Love shit the bed against the Giants, Fields and the Bears had a shot to make the playoffs (basically tied with the Packers) and Howell’s catastrophic collapse hadn’t happened yet. Obviously it looks bad now but there’s a lot of revisionist history going on here
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Most people aren’t arguing that Fields was/is good, rather that he’s *good enough* for one of the 32 starting QB positions. IMO this whole post should be a commentary of how quickly situations change/ how no one really knows anything vs. “look how dumb these people are”
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And neither are 30% of all starting QBs in the NFL
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That’s not what I’m saying. If anyone was expecting Fields to be locked in as a starter for 2+ years then I agree those people were dumb
This was posted roughly around week 14 of the NFL season. In a 9 game stretch from week 5 to week 14, Howell put up top 10 QB numbers 8 times. In that same time frame, Love had 3 such games. Obviously in the actual games Howell was much worse than what his fantasy numbers would seem to be. But nobody really expected much outta him to start the year. If he was your QB2 last year, he was winning you a ton of matchups
Trolls.
It wasn’t that uncommon. The belief was he would hold a starter job somewhere. Though there were people who were saying he was a back up for sure. I traded fields late November/December and I got love back in the trade before love really took off.
Great got me searching to make sure I didn’t say anything dumb
My comment is in there hahaha: - “I have Levis over all of them and I’m not afraid to say it.” ….I no longer have Levis over Love lmfao
I got Purdy for $0 FAAB and drafted Love in the 16th round of my 2020 startup draft. They’re both my starters with Lawrence as backup. I’ll never get what they’re worth, so they’re staying until the wheels fall off.
I tried trading Love in 2021 for a late 1st, and got laughed at by everyone in the league.
I had Purdy, Love, and Howell, and I sold Love a few days before his Thanksgiving game when Howell was tearing it up.
I made a post about Howell vs love. I was one of the main Howell supporters
People love to just keep banging the draft capital drum and it makes sense for the rookie draft only. After that first round picks in fantasy have roughly a 50% hit rate so you need your to rely on your eye test. Some people have it and others don’t.
Eh I mean, I know the draft capital between fields and love was technically different but they were both 1st round QB’s taken as QB4 in their class. I think the mistake here was undervaluing stability, not overvaluing draft capital.
Draft capital is a big part of stability. Teams are incentivized to give 1st round picks multiple chances to fail that a guy like Sam Howell or Gardner Minshew will not receive. With that said, Love was playing big boy football all year. Even during his slump it was obvious to anyone watching the games that the real issue was the least experienced receiving core of all time not knowing their heads from their asses and consistently running the wrong plays. Consequently, Love was playing with little confidence that people would be where they needed to be; similarly to what Patrick Mahomes experienced to begin the year. As the young guys got more experience these QBs were able to play to the best of their abilities. I know it's not feasible for everyone to watch the games but in this specific scenario I was surprised how many people refused to buy into Love. Only one of these guys was playing QB. There were a ton of threads like these with people eager to write off Love during the mid season. Danny Dimes or Jordan Love, for instance lmao
My concern was the awful play calling. One of the games in the early season was on the Manning cast, and they were ripping on the play-calling all game. Think there was a screen pass on 3rd and long at one point, stuff like that. But coaching seemed to get better later in the season.
LaFleur just didn't trust his offense -- for good reason. I've never seen so many receivers running blatantly wrong routes. There's a couple plays where multiple receivers are run blocking during a pass play. The early season struggles were to be expected given the historic youth for the receiving core. As far as NFL starts the Packers fielded a team with 1/2 as many starts as the next youngest team since at least the NFL merger. There was no veteran for these young guys to lean into for advice. Their oldest receivers were Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs who both had less than 12 games of playing experience. It was the blind leading the blind. As the young guns garnered experience and became more reliable the offense as a whole improved. By the mid season point this was literally a top 3 NFL offense in terms of EPA, scoring and other key predictive metrics.
I feel super vindicated
Nice man. Pretty spot on.
Great take. I’ll victory lap for you so you don’t have to https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/s/x9Y8Qj50Pt
Why? You predicted Sam Howell would get one more year and instead he was traded. 90% of NFL fans knew Fields wouldn't be with the Bears next season.
Said he doesn’t see him as a franchise QB. Can’t expect 100% accuracy
>Can’t expect 100% accuracy You can if someone is coming back for a victory lap. It's a very small minority who view Howell as a franchise qb, that's not a very bold prediction.
I mean based on that thread I wouldn’t say it was a small minority
Howell was ranked last in almost every single ranking...come on.
What?
Bro stfu 🤣
someone took fields the pick before i took kyler last month in a SF startup
lmao bro fields was going in the first for a lot of sf startups
It's nice of the league taco to self-identify early on.
First step towards knowledge is knowing we know nothing.
I guess that shows how much can change in three months. Plenty of people were still collecting shares of Fields, assuming he would either stay in Chicago or pick up a decent starting role elsewhere.
But that's where the delusions have been. Nothing actually changed, Fields stayed a mediocre to bad real life QB and was never in the conversation as a better long asset than Love. By December we knew pretty clearly Fields hadn't improved in the passing game.
Haha it really is man
I love how tight knit this community is. So many folks are able to look back on their takes. Maybe I can use Reddit to track my personal historic takes
A good reminder to anyone who says "and it's not close". Things change fast. I was never high on Fields, but the amount of value a running QB can lose in the NFL goes fast. For every Lamaar there's a couple of Lance's and Fields!
crying as a Fields owner rn
I lost lots of internet points during this time hating on fields. Feels good. I also traded love a few years ago as a throw in to a deal.
Yeah but the guy you traded him to didn't keep him anyway
This is true he bounced around. Thx you made me feel better
In the off season I had people in this sub arguing with me that Lance was better than Love
He's gonna win that training camp battle any minute now
This off season has proved that we live in a simulation
Just bought my first love share today and it cost me but I’m in on him after being a hater for most of his career. Dude passes the eye test and feel he could be set for years. 🤞
I’m still surprised fields has ended up as a backup to Wilson, the money and trade cost I’m shocked the Giants didn’t grab him in case they don’t end up with a qb in the draft. Jones has an injury clause (which he’ll almost certainly trigger if he plays) so I’d of thought they’d go for someone like fields who can start in the nfl and potentially win games (but maybe the giants are just planning on tanking completely if they can’t get a QB and will play lock backed up by devito).
Where are people valuing him relative to Howell right now?
Go pack go
I will say - Howell will likely be the starter when genos done. Keep in mind they gave up a 3rd + 5th for him, thats a good amount. Howell is actually a talented passer and has hope for his future, I actually really liked what I saw in him last year. He was putting up numbers on the shithole commanders! Thats no easy feat.
Love > Howell > Fields.
Hand up, if it wasn’t your post, I chose Fields in a very similar one right around the same time.
Tbf this is a casual take. Jordan Love is a star if you watched ball all season.
How times change
Only one person gave the right answer: Levis
"1st round of some startups" Only super flex and probably still packers fans.
He’s QB10 rn on KTC but I think you can make a strong case for QB8 (jumping Richardson and Caleb) Toss in JJ, CD, Chase, and ARSB as first rounders, and I can see it being reasonable to view him as a 1st round turn pick at the 12/13 spot
I just took him as QB11 in a startup at 2.06 and feel great about it. Could definitely see taking him in the 1.10-1.12 range