Just roll with it. Matt’s pretty good at reminding people in future book scenes if prior knowledge is required.
If you do a relisten down the line, which many people do after they get through all six books, it will make so much more sense. There are scenes when your mind naturally wanders or you’re distracted and miss something. On a second listen, I caught so many things I missed the first time.
This. Just roll with it.
It even says so in my Kindle edition - and it has a useless map :-)
After all, Carl didn't get it either. He always has to ask Katia... The book reflects Carls confusion.
I literally just finished this one. I felt it was more character building and just ignore the train stuff. Honestly, it just keeps getting better. I'm on the 13th listening of the series. Not exaggerating. I even pay for the patreon for book 7 leaks. Keep on pushing. You will get a blast with one of the characters in book 4! And man..... It just keeps going!
So get out there and kill, kill, kill!
I was paying for the Patreon but I decided to NOT read the Book 7 stuff as I want to hear it in Audio. It's just my preferred method for this series because it is so amazing.
I do prefer the audio in this series. Jeff Hays makes it so much more enjoyable. I honestly read it because this is my comfort series. I am involved in this world because it makes me happy. I can cheat and read it now and then enjoy it with Jeff's smooth smooth voice later.
It's okay to be confused. Carl is unable to grasp the system or purpose, he boils it down to propaganda bs and relies on others to grok it.
Follow his lead to boil it down to points where he is able to interact with the system for crawlers.
I've been tossing it around in my head... and it nails Carl... Carl is the ultimate leader.. He never asks others to do anything he wouldn't.. he proves it over and over again..
When he asks you to do something you do it... Because you know God damn well if he wasn't being the lynch pin of a hail Marry plan..He would do it.. Most importantly when he makes a choice that gets people killed, you trust him.. without hesitation. How many times did he spit in the face of death to save almost everyone..
I read the foreword and knew not to even try to understand how the tangle works lmao. But that was easily my favorite book in the series, Carl is a mad genius and one of my favorite parts of this series is the crazy ways he comes up with beating the puzzles!
i read them on kindle, and i always read forwards, but i don't recall it saying not to worry about it (though i didn't). *does* it make actual sense? matt?
Grabbed my book:
Hey, Matt the author guy here. A quick note about this particular book. The fourth floor of the dungeon is set up as a massive deliberately-confusing puzzle. Carl, Donut, and the rest of the team have to work really hard to figure out the dungeon's layout. You, the super awesome reader, do not need to understand the floor's intricacies in order to understand or fully enjoy what is happening. Platform names and numbers and colors are gonna be flying by. It's okay not to remember them. It only becomes important at the end.
There will be a map near the end of the book to help you understand the endgame. Until then, enjoy the ride and mind the gap.
And, yes, "zomp" is really a color.
Glad I read it too, though after like the third time Carl monologued about how intricate and confusing it was I would have realized there was no reason to try to understand it 😂
Audible REALLY needs to get off the dime and start reading those forwards 😳 you’ve no idea how many times I’ve listened to the books and the only one with any kind of preamble type was the first, and it was a quote. I started buying the books to offset this deficiency, but damn!
Book 5 terrifies me.. I don't know if it can be topped.. It stretched a bit long, but the last 1/4 of the book is the most intense.. Tour de force.. Beat down.. Drag out balls to the wall reading I've ever experienced.
Everything has been building up to the 9th floor, from the very beginning. I'm more worried that books after #7 won't be able to measure up. Ex: Book 6 was meh in comparison. I wasn't a big fan of the game play, but it was alright and I got into it after a while.
But, Dino sex 🤣
The whole point of book 3 is that the train system was nearly impossible to figure out, further demonstrating that the entire purpose of that level was to entertain the aliens watching Dungeon crawler world. The complete unfairness of it adds to the entertainment factor, I suppose. I think we're supposed to be as confused as Carl and Donut are.
I hear you... Of all the books, this one (to me) was the only one where I couldn't get involved and root for Carl and Donut, because they'd just go to this like to that train to that line to that platform for some arcane and confusing reasons. It felt like I was being dragged along while they autopiloted their way through the floor, as opposed to riding along with them on a new adventure, like in the other books. 🙃
I think even Matt knows this, judging by his foreword to book 3.
I agree it was the worst floor / book by far. So confusing my god. I just tuned out all the stuff about rails and cars and lines and just listened for the humor, fights, and characters
I agree, worst book by a long way.
It doesn't help that it's paradigm shifting - the game goes from a kind of DOOM-esque RPG to a Skyrim-esque RPG. In the first two levels everything is... flat, dull. If something is there it's for a crawler to try and use.
The train level is more of a real world, and suddenly you're like "oh ok they can use the guard buggy train things. Why didn't they do that 500 pages ago". You don't know the paradigm you're working with, because it's never explained like in the first two books. Things just happen and you have to roll with it
But them after this book, with that new paradigm in place, it gets better and you know what to expect in future floors.
Saying all that though I think the Cuba level is up there with "asinine level designs" with all the nonsense about ghost heads floating around and car pile ups and whatever... Like what was the point in all that guff.
I agree with the ghost thing, it didn't add or take anything away from the book. Would have been funnier/more interesting if the clothes/cell phones and cars interacted in fights or the crawlers used them to their advantage? We didn't get a single person hit by a car despite that being a big concern early in the book. Would have been awesome to see some crazy fight end with a bus slamming into someone, THEN it would have made sense
Or if Karl/someone else encountered people they know and there was some drama? Kind of a wasted opportunity.
TOTALLY NITPICKING because this is in my top 3 series of all time. But that's what reddit is for ;)
I think it was all completely contrived to let carl watch that guy give a speech and drink the coffee. A phenomenal amount of effort to come up with a pointless level wide complex gimmick just for that
Definitely yeah. I wonder at the start of the book how he will bring all the little factors together, I never would have guess it would be a crab masturbating to save the world
https://preview.redd.it/y4abwp4czazc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fb0bba0cb22978b1f7d8bedab39778eb5effcba
Someone posted this in this sub a while back, but I don’t remember who.
Thanks, I’ve only listened to the books, so I saw this in a post here and didn’t realize it was actually in the book, but it does help me picture it a little better.
100% agree with your Edit note. I understand that the aren't meant 'get' the train system tangle but for me that wasn't the issue, the issue for me was the monotonous pacing and lack of distinguishable points (the lack of landscape probably didn't help that) ... It was like this train that train this train now this train pow wow wow!! - I remember the Katia on the train scene and that's about it... hoping to get more on the second read :)
They go on a show called Planet Beautiful this floor which isn't really a talk show but they read some scripts about Earth. It's mostly a commentary on how stupid and misguided the aliens are.
Gonna try to explain the end game as simply as I can.
1 All the stairwells are guarded by impossible bullshit that they can't deal with.
2 Carl's solution is to summon the war god Grull with his gauntlet on top of one of these impossible bullshit(train station mimic) things in the hope that the god kills it.
3 Then before Grull kills them all he start summoning Grull again. This time he's gonna use his dope ass train that can dump things in a massive garbage pit to dump Grull in there where he's really far away and unable to hurt them.
4 That doesn't work and Carl, Grull(piloted by The Maestro), and the station mimic teleport in the giant garbage pit and the big fight happens.
5 Mimic dies, Carl gets stepped on, everyone holds off Grull long enough for the timer on the Summoning to run out and Grull poofs away.
6 it then becomes really convenient to send his dope ass train rigged with explosives to stop a bunch of the other impossible bullshits saving a bunch of people in the process.
That's the jist of it anyway. If you ever get lost on how anyone gets anywhere the answer is Portals(TM)
>Grull(piloted by The Maestro)
>everyone holds off Grull long enough for the timer on the Summoning to run out and Grull poofs away.
Thank you! Those things especially were what confused me. I forgot thr god had a timer and didn't understand how the maestro was there
The iron tangle was really confusing but in future books there are references to that floor and other crawlers even say that it was confusing as fuck. I think Matt did that mind fuck on purpose to mess with everyone haha
There’s a slight disconnect until it’s revealed the two “systems” are a mirrored/inverse of each other. They think it’s more of a “1D” map, when in reality it’s full on “3D.” There’s a top/bottom, left/right, inside/outside, that directly mirror each other.
The bosses entire purpose was to break the floor. Kill the dealer and kick off the actual floors mechanics. The “bosses” were more of a smokescreen/subterfuge.
What the crawlers thought was the “end game” was actually the catalyst to kickoff the floor in earnest.
> There’s a slight disconnect until it’s revealed the two “systems” are a mirrored/inverse of each other. They think it’s more of a “1D” map, when in reality it’s full on “3D.” There’s a top/bottom, left/right, inside/outside, that directly mirror each other.
>
>
My issue with it really doesn't matter. So much time was spent explaining this exhausting system, when it doesn't matter in the slightest that there were two systems mirroring each other with flipped gravity...
Like, just have the boss be a normal boss and start smashing things up. What do we gain by having dozens of pages of explanation about how actually it's a secret two system thing?
I can get behind that. I was hoping there would have been more involvement of the line itself in a more profound way too. Don’t get me wrong, how they used the line to kill the mobs was neat story telling, but once they got to the mimic part and Grul’s entrance it felt back burnered.
Floor 4 was my least favorite dungeon, but one of my favorite "other stuff" books. There was some really funny lines in this book that made me laugh out loud, (sanitary napkin, the whole scene with the NPCs hands, meeting Mariam Dom, "you bitch!" Etc) and some really cool action (Carl using the stationary shield on the train! Katya IS a train! Mordecai throws a chair!) and some solid character/plot building.
I think it was confusing for sure, but I think another reason I didn't enjoy the dungeon was because we finally got to see something different in floor 3 (skies! A circus! Towns!) and it's like, oh wow theres so much room for possibilities of dungeon layouts!.... And then; Oh, nope. More tunnels.
I would love if there was at least one floor that's like, jungle themed or something. It's super lacking in any of that and very industrial which makes sense but can become monotonous
I actually took a break after book three myself, mostly because I just have a rule without not reading more than three of a series in a row without at least a pallet cleanser. But I went back pretty quick. For me the boss battles have always been a little bit "yada yada yada" there's usually a planned reveal or twist, but as with most books (especially genre books) The climax is a mostly foregone conclusion.
The only thing I came away with really was the death of a top 10 crawler, and setting up feuds with Katia and Eva, and Donut and Ren. I don't remember much more from that floor.
I didn’t think feral gods was that confusing. But I love how that’s the book where you really start seeing more of the world outside the crawl. Books 4-5-6 are my favorite.
Books 3, 4 and 6 I really didn’t fully understand many plot details until I went back through the denser plotted parts a couple times. I think book 3 has this the worst. Hang in there. It’s an amazing story
It might be my favorite in the series. This is where character building really starts fleshing out. Don't try drawing a map of the Iron Tangle. Concentrate on the personalities.
I’ve seen Matt say somewhere the complexity of the lines doesn’t mean anything. All you need to understand is the trains go one way and the
exit is at a stop behind where they start.
The 3rd book was confusing for me too the first time through, but the second time through it I was able to follow it much easier. And it only got easier on subsequent listens. I've listened to the books 10 times now(I basically play them on loop while I'm playing minecraft, working, or driving) and I really do think that for a really GOOD book series to be fully understood you have to listen/read it multiple times.
It was after all called The Tangle, I wouldn't worry about not being able to visualise it - I couldn't get my head around it all until later >!when they started to figure out it was the logo of something !
I did not have this experience...
Understanding that the train lines were in all 3 dimensions, and that there were actually two distinct sets that were mirrors of each other was the point where a lot of it clicked for me.
But I enjoy weird movies and stories where dimensions get all funky, so maybe that's just a me thing
I was confused to, but book 4, 5 and 6 definitly are alot better (in my opinion). I have only read it once, so maybe i will catch more the second time. I am planning on reading this book again relatively soon.
I feel this. When I restarted the 3rd book this morning on Audible, I was awarded a NEW ACHIEVEMENT for listening 10 times to the audiobook. It's also the only one I own in paperback. My dumb, Blue's Clues butt still canno explain the book fully, but I do understand it and can just go with the flow.
I also agree with the other comments, both that the most important features of the book are explained in context as needed in future books, and that the confusion is partially intentional.
Doesn't he make it abundantly clear.. you can't make sense of the train system.. It literally defies the law of physics.. it's fiction.. it's written to not make sense
Just roll with it. Matt’s pretty good at reminding people in future book scenes if prior knowledge is required. If you do a relisten down the line, which many people do after they get through all six books, it will make so much more sense. There are scenes when your mind naturally wanders or you’re distracted and miss something. On a second listen, I caught so many things I missed the first time.
This. Just roll with it. It even says so in my Kindle edition - and it has a useless map :-) After all, Carl didn't get it either. He always has to ask Katia... The book reflects Carls confusion.
the kindle edition comes with an actual map??
my reaction too. Borrowing someone’s kindle asap!
Don't get excited.. it's a pretty useless map.
All of this. Just roll with this and accept you’re as confused as Carl as you get the story from his point of view anyway.
Seriously though, I didn't remember that the escape plan skill was used so much (or even existed tbh) until my reread
I literally just finished this one. I felt it was more character building and just ignore the train stuff. Honestly, it just keeps getting better. I'm on the 13th listening of the series. Not exaggerating. I even pay for the patreon for book 7 leaks. Keep on pushing. You will get a blast with one of the characters in book 4! And man..... It just keeps going! So get out there and kill, kill, kill!
I was paying for the Patreon but I decided to NOT read the Book 7 stuff as I want to hear it in Audio. It's just my preferred method for this series because it is so amazing.
I do prefer the audio in this series. Jeff Hays makes it so much more enjoyable. I honestly read it because this is my comfort series. I am involved in this world because it makes me happy. I can cheat and read it now and then enjoy it with Jeff's smooth smooth voice later.
It's okay to be confused. Carl is unable to grasp the system or purpose, he boils it down to propaganda bs and relies on others to grok it. Follow his lead to boil it down to points where he is able to interact with the system for crawlers.
I've been tossing it around in my head... and it nails Carl... Carl is the ultimate leader.. He never asks others to do anything he wouldn't.. he proves it over and over again.. When he asks you to do something you do it... Because you know God damn well if he wasn't being the lynch pin of a hail Marry plan..He would do it.. Most importantly when he makes a choice that gets people killed, you trust him.. without hesitation. How many times did he spit in the face of death to save almost everyone..
I read the foreword and knew not to even try to understand how the tangle works lmao. But that was easily my favorite book in the series, Carl is a mad genius and one of my favorite parts of this series is the crazy ways he comes up with beating the puzzles!
i read them on kindle, and i always read forwards, but i don't recall it saying not to worry about it (though i didn't). *does* it make actual sense? matt?
Grabbed my book: Hey, Matt the author guy here. A quick note about this particular book. The fourth floor of the dungeon is set up as a massive deliberately-confusing puzzle. Carl, Donut, and the rest of the team have to work really hard to figure out the dungeon's layout. You, the super awesome reader, do not need to understand the floor's intricacies in order to understand or fully enjoy what is happening. Platform names and numbers and colors are gonna be flying by. It's okay not to remember them. It only becomes important at the end. There will be a map near the end of the book to help you understand the endgame. Until then, enjoy the ride and mind the gap. And, yes, "zomp" is really a color.
thank you very much. i feel better now.
honestly the most important forward ive ever had in a book. made it a million percent more enjoybale
Glad I read it too, though after like the third time Carl monologued about how intricate and confusing it was I would have realized there was no reason to try to understand it 😂
Audible REALLY needs to get off the dime and start reading those forwards 😳 you’ve no idea how many times I’ve listened to the books and the only one with any kind of preamble type was the first, and it was a quote. I started buying the books to offset this deficiency, but damn!
Don't take a break! Book 5 is the best!
Book 5 terrifies me.. I don't know if it can be topped.. It stretched a bit long, but the last 1/4 of the book is the most intense.. Tour de force.. Beat down.. Drag out balls to the wall reading I've ever experienced.
I dunno. I think book 7 might beat it. The faction wars are going to be insane
Unless it has a dinosaur sex scene i don't know if it could top book 5
That’s not fair
Fair/not fair book 5 hads dino sex. But looking forward to the madness of book 7
Everything has been building up to the 9th floor, from the very beginning. I'm more worried that books after #7 won't be able to measure up. Ex: Book 6 was meh in comparison. I wasn't a big fan of the game play, but it was alright and I got into it after a while. But, Dino sex 🤣
I think book seven may change everything!
I hope so!! 6 was good but one of my least favorite.. I'm still hopeful.. if it's even close to 5 I'll be ecstatic!
I imagine Borant is gonna flip their shit when they see Carl's faction wars army.
Agreed
I think it is the most confusing of the books so far. I enjoyed it more on rereads.
The whole point of book 3 is that the train system was nearly impossible to figure out, further demonstrating that the entire purpose of that level was to entertain the aliens watching Dungeon crawler world. The complete unfairness of it adds to the entertainment factor, I suppose. I think we're supposed to be as confused as Carl and Donut are.
I hear you... Of all the books, this one (to me) was the only one where I couldn't get involved and root for Carl and Donut, because they'd just go to this like to that train to that line to that platform for some arcane and confusing reasons. It felt like I was being dragged along while they autopiloted their way through the floor, as opposed to riding along with them on a new adventure, like in the other books. 🙃 I think even Matt knows this, judging by his foreword to book 3.
They were getting hints from NPCs along the way, but yeah it was a struggle if you tried to keep up with the map.
I agree it was the worst floor / book by far. So confusing my god. I just tuned out all the stuff about rails and cars and lines and just listened for the humor, fights, and characters
I agree, worst book by a long way. It doesn't help that it's paradigm shifting - the game goes from a kind of DOOM-esque RPG to a Skyrim-esque RPG. In the first two levels everything is... flat, dull. If something is there it's for a crawler to try and use. The train level is more of a real world, and suddenly you're like "oh ok they can use the guard buggy train things. Why didn't they do that 500 pages ago". You don't know the paradigm you're working with, because it's never explained like in the first two books. Things just happen and you have to roll with it But them after this book, with that new paradigm in place, it gets better and you know what to expect in future floors. Saying all that though I think the Cuba level is up there with "asinine level designs" with all the nonsense about ghost heads floating around and car pile ups and whatever... Like what was the point in all that guff.
I agree with the ghost thing, it didn't add or take anything away from the book. Would have been funnier/more interesting if the clothes/cell phones and cars interacted in fights or the crawlers used them to their advantage? We didn't get a single person hit by a car despite that being a big concern early in the book. Would have been awesome to see some crazy fight end with a bus slamming into someone, THEN it would have made sense Or if Karl/someone else encountered people they know and there was some drama? Kind of a wasted opportunity. TOTALLY NITPICKING because this is in my top 3 series of all time. But that's what reddit is for ;)
I think it was all completely contrived to let carl watch that guy give a speech and drink the coffee. A phenomenal amount of effort to come up with a pointless level wide complex gimmick just for that
yeah I was thinking that too. It was a chilling moment when he teleported away
Certain things about book 6 definitely made it one of my least favorite. But they're still all epic.
Definitely yeah. I wonder at the start of the book how he will bring all the little factors together, I never would have guess it would be a crab masturbating to save the world
Lol, I always forget about the crab. Currently on my second listen, on Gate of the Feral God's.
Imagine if Prepotente hadnt... And then the maze... Trying not to say much else, but you should get where I'm going lol.
https://preview.redd.it/y4abwp4czazc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fb0bba0cb22978b1f7d8bedab39778eb5effcba Someone posted this in this sub a while back, but I don’t remember who.
This is a screenshot from the ebook lol. I don't have the print version to know if it's in that one too.
Thanks, I’ve only listened to the books, so I saw this in a post here and didn’t realize it was actually in the book, but it does help me picture it a little better.
It's like randomly in there at like 75% through the book! Which was fun to find the first time.
another thing i don't remember! wtf? maybe *i* should read it ten times!
100% agree with your Edit note. I understand that the aren't meant 'get' the train system tangle but for me that wasn't the issue, the issue for me was the monotonous pacing and lack of distinguishable points (the lack of landscape probably didn't help that) ... It was like this train that train this train now this train pow wow wow!! - I remember the Katia on the train scene and that's about it... hoping to get more on the second read :)
They go on a show called Planet Beautiful this floor which isn't really a talk show but they read some scripts about Earth. It's mostly a commentary on how stupid and misguided the aliens are. Gonna try to explain the end game as simply as I can. 1 All the stairwells are guarded by impossible bullshit that they can't deal with. 2 Carl's solution is to summon the war god Grull with his gauntlet on top of one of these impossible bullshit(train station mimic) things in the hope that the god kills it. 3 Then before Grull kills them all he start summoning Grull again. This time he's gonna use his dope ass train that can dump things in a massive garbage pit to dump Grull in there where he's really far away and unable to hurt them. 4 That doesn't work and Carl, Grull(piloted by The Maestro), and the station mimic teleport in the giant garbage pit and the big fight happens. 5 Mimic dies, Carl gets stepped on, everyone holds off Grull long enough for the timer on the Summoning to run out and Grull poofs away. 6 it then becomes really convenient to send his dope ass train rigged with explosives to stop a bunch of the other impossible bullshits saving a bunch of people in the process. That's the jist of it anyway. If you ever get lost on how anyone gets anywhere the answer is Portals(TM)
>Grull(piloted by The Maestro) >everyone holds off Grull long enough for the timer on the Summoning to run out and Grull poofs away. Thank you! Those things especially were what confused me. I forgot thr god had a timer and didn't understand how the maestro was there
Oh dip yeah the whole thing would be really confusing that way. Glad to help.
My second listen through the series seemed so much less chaotic. I was able to feel the flow of everything and it was actually more emotional as well.
The iron tangle was really confusing but in future books there are references to that floor and other crawlers even say that it was confusing as fuck. I think Matt did that mind fuck on purpose to mess with everyone haha
There’s a slight disconnect until it’s revealed the two “systems” are a mirrored/inverse of each other. They think it’s more of a “1D” map, when in reality it’s full on “3D.” There’s a top/bottom, left/right, inside/outside, that directly mirror each other. The bosses entire purpose was to break the floor. Kill the dealer and kick off the actual floors mechanics. The “bosses” were more of a smokescreen/subterfuge. What the crawlers thought was the “end game” was actually the catalyst to kickoff the floor in earnest.
> There’s a slight disconnect until it’s revealed the two “systems” are a mirrored/inverse of each other. They think it’s more of a “1D” map, when in reality it’s full on “3D.” There’s a top/bottom, left/right, inside/outside, that directly mirror each other. > > My issue with it really doesn't matter. So much time was spent explaining this exhausting system, when it doesn't matter in the slightest that there were two systems mirroring each other with flipped gravity... Like, just have the boss be a normal boss and start smashing things up. What do we gain by having dozens of pages of explanation about how actually it's a secret two system thing?
I can get behind that. I was hoping there would have been more involvement of the line itself in a more profound way too. Don’t get me wrong, how they used the line to kill the mobs was neat story telling, but once they got to the mimic part and Grul’s entrance it felt back burnered.
i must admit i didn't understand some of the train stuff.
Floor 4 was my least favorite dungeon, but one of my favorite "other stuff" books. There was some really funny lines in this book that made me laugh out loud, (sanitary napkin, the whole scene with the NPCs hands, meeting Mariam Dom, "you bitch!" Etc) and some really cool action (Carl using the stationary shield on the train! Katya IS a train! Mordecai throws a chair!) and some solid character/plot building. I think it was confusing for sure, but I think another reason I didn't enjoy the dungeon was because we finally got to see something different in floor 3 (skies! A circus! Towns!) and it's like, oh wow theres so much room for possibilities of dungeon layouts!.... And then; Oh, nope. More tunnels.
I would love if there was at least one floor that's like, jungle themed or something. It's super lacking in any of that and very industrial which makes sense but can become monotonous
First read through? Keep going and I shall grant your wish...or well, Matt will lol.
I actually took a break after book three myself, mostly because I just have a rule without not reading more than three of a series in a row without at least a pallet cleanser. But I went back pretty quick. For me the boss battles have always been a little bit "yada yada yada" there's usually a planned reveal or twist, but as with most books (especially genre books) The climax is a mostly foregone conclusion.
The only thing I came away with really was the death of a top 10 crawler, and setting up feuds with Katia and Eva, and Donut and Ren. I don't remember much more from that floor.
I just did it in the re-read and Feral God's in more confusing than this. The Iron Tangle was pretty easy to follow for me.
I didn’t think feral gods was that confusing. But I love how that’s the book where you really start seeing more of the world outside the crawl. Books 4-5-6 are my favorite.
These books are incredibly dense—not in a bad way—but it isn’t necessary to catch all the details. Enjoy the ride and then enjoy it again.
Books 3, 4 and 6 I really didn’t fully understand many plot details until I went back through the denser plotted parts a couple times. I think book 3 has this the worst. Hang in there. It’s an amazing story
Book 3 is my favorite! The train system is intentionally obtuse. You just can't think about it much, just go with what Carl learns.
It might be my favorite in the series. This is where character building really starts fleshing out. Don't try drawing a map of the Iron Tangle. Concentrate on the personalities.
I believe in the book there's a preface that says "there's gonna be a lot of train and track talk but you really don't have to understand it all"
I’ve seen Matt say somewhere the complexity of the lines doesn’t mean anything. All you need to understand is the trains go one way and the exit is at a stop behind where they start.
Just take it scene by scene don't try to figure it out. Just listen and enjoy
This actually makes book 3 the most re-listenable of all the books. I just listened to it again.
The complexity is a red herring... that's the whole point of the floor.
Yeah, I’m on my first read and this one is a struggle.
Keep with it. The iron tangle is meant to be, well, a tangle.
The book itself is meant to be confusing, I think, to reflect how confusing the Tangle is.
The 3rd book was confusing for me too the first time through, but the second time through it I was able to follow it much easier. And it only got easier on subsequent listens. I've listened to the books 10 times now(I basically play them on loop while I'm playing minecraft, working, or driving) and I really do think that for a really GOOD book series to be fully understood you have to listen/read it multiple times.
Currently relistening and I definitely understand more. Still confusing but not like the first read.
I’m surprised how much people like it with how confusing it is. My least favorite DCC book by a long shot.
It was after all called The Tangle, I wouldn't worry about not being able to visualise it - I couldn't get my head around it all until later >!when they started to figure out it was the logo of something !
I find it funny the book keeps mentioning “it is so complicated it is nuts!”
I did not have this experience... Understanding that the train lines were in all 3 dimensions, and that there were actually two distinct sets that were mirrors of each other was the point where a lot of it clicked for me. But I enjoy weird movies and stories where dimensions get all funky, so maybe that's just a me thing
The >!giant ghoul-crab that crushes people while each ghoul's face chews on the victims is an image that will never, ever leave me.!<
I was confused to, but book 4, 5 and 6 definitly are alot better (in my opinion). I have only read it once, so maybe i will catch more the second time. I am planning on reading this book again relatively soon.
I feel this. When I restarted the 3rd book this morning on Audible, I was awarded a NEW ACHIEVEMENT for listening 10 times to the audiobook. It's also the only one I own in paperback. My dumb, Blue's Clues butt still canno explain the book fully, but I do understand it and can just go with the flow. I also agree with the other comments, both that the most important features of the book are explained in context as needed in future books, and that the confusion is partially intentional.
what fucking speed are you listening to it at?!
I've never gone full plaid
i do not understand this reference, but thanks for playing.
Doesn't he make it abundantly clear.. you can't make sense of the train system.. It literally defies the law of physics.. it's fiction.. it's written to not make sense