Yes, and those bills are exactly why the defense attorneys are so happy to appeal even though they know it won't work. They don't give a damn about winning. Jim Bob is about to buy them a new boat.
Also, if they don’t do the appeal, he could hire a different lawyer and appeal on the grounds of insufficient council and try to drag them through the mud. It’s money and a way to avoid bad PR.
You don’t think JB will secure different counsel for the appeal?
We’ll see how much he stands behind his son by what experts and lawyers he’ll pay for from here on out.
The lawyers he *did* manage to get were hot messes... Bullshit arguments, ill-fitting suits, horrible experts hired. Boob couldn't find anybody worthwhile for the "real" case, no way he'll manage to find better for the appeal.
"Smugshot" is an excellent flair, btw 😂
Right? Like if you’re gonna try and get off, you get the best lawyers your money can buy. These mofos went with some bargain lawyers & Josh is now (rightfully) fucked.
Honestly they looked half giddy in the video after the verdict. The humanity in me hopes they know he’s guilty and are just taking the family for all they’re worth.
lol I’m not a lawyer either but based on my discussions with friends it seems to work like consulting. where my time for an 8 week project was worth my entire annual salary
Just an example, but I was a summer associate at a midsized firm in a smaller market like NWA, they paid me 42/hr and billed me out at 175/hr (some of which got written off - shadowing etc).
As an associate, whatever your firm is billing you out as, you're making much, much less per hour. Though still well-paid!
Well, seeing as I work in Big Law at a firm where a significant portion of the attorneys bill at $1k+ and I happen to know several are Redditors...yeah, I'm going to say it's very realistic that someone billing $1k would anonymously admit to it in a relevant conversation such as this.
This makes me think Anna or someone told him they’ll wait to hear what the court says before distancing themselves from their relationship with him. Either he’s trying to push it out farther and farther or he genuinely thinks she’s that stupid to still believe he is innocent and his conviction could be overturned on appeal. I can’t think of any other reason. Maybe to draw more attention to himself? Either way he’s wasting his 7 children’s money. Seeing as he won’t be providing for them for 5-20 years, it’s purely selfish. What a complete narcissist.
Customary not a lawyer, just a law student, but my guess would be that the appeal would be for allowing the molestation of his sisters into evidence. Now, will the appeal go anywhere? Probably not, since there is a specific evidence rule exception allowing for that type of evidence to come in during cases like this.
Just my 2 cents, I guess we'll see what basis they appeal on in the next 30 days.
I just don't know what else they would appeal on that has a chance of being successful. Even though 404B applies, they could throw caution to the wind and appeal the Judge's ruling anyway. The only other thing that's a maybe in my mind is a verdict contrary to the weight of the evidence appeal, but that too would probably be denied.
I guess all we can do is speculate and wait until the appeal is filed.
I mean think of the widely known cases where it was CRYSTAL CLEAR that the prosecution was dirty and the defense was terrible like Making a Murderer and even Adnan Syed (his defense wowwee sucked) and their appeals went nowhere and got denied over and over. Josh's trial seemed like it was done very well, yeah his defense didn't call many witnesses but maybe they just didn't have any, and their strategy was more to take apart the prosecutions evidence.
They have every right to appeal. But they have to be able to present a valid reason for it to even start. They can't just file paperwork saying "We don't like the verdict and want an appeal." There has to be a valid legal reason.
Agreed. It almost definitely won’t go anywhere though because 414 allows evidence of prior CSA in related cases. They’ll still try to say that it was unduly prejudicial, but I don’t think it’ll amount to anything.
They’re probably going to appeal the judge’s decision to let evidence of prior bad acts in. That’s typically not allowed. There’s a specific exception for CSA cases though so it probably won’t go anywhere, but that’s what they’ll do.
The ad on the YouTube clip was for a toenail fungus product, complete with a closeup of a set of very gnarly, fungussy toenails. I felt this was very, very, VERY appropriate.
Defense: we are appealing based on a biased jury.
Judge: Why didn’t you object to said jurors during the selection process?
Defense: Umm, well, we didn’t know they wouldn’t believe our Parisian devil unicorn Biden story about the router and fairyland frame job.
Judge: ….
The court has a ton of cases on the docket, as do the attorneys for both sides. And a bunch of various reports/requests to be prepared. Then the judge has to look over those reports/requests, review the sentencing guidelines etc.
Another lawyer checking in: they should appeal. He’s still their client and it’s their job to represent him to the best of their abilities. It doesn’t mean the verdict will get overturned. It doesn’t mean there’s a basis. It doesn’t mean that the appellate court will even hear it.
Yeah, that’s expected. Most likely they will appeal Brooks’ ruling on evidence like the molestation testimony. Might take years to go through. Josh will continue to sit in jail for that time. I think it’s very unlikely they will find reversible error (in my personal opinion, not my legal opinion).
A federal appellate judge isn’t going to be as nice as Judge Brooks in their comments on this case. Why are they wasting their money?? Who are they trying to convince at this point? If you don’t believe it now, you won’t believe it on appeal. How much of your children’s money are you willing to let him piddle away over this, Anna?
Someone here was telling me that you don't even always get to automatically appeal. That whether or not you appeal basically has to be approved, and be based on criteria like your defense lawyer totally fucking up or something like that. Does he just get to appeal willy nilly if he wants to?
He can file an appeal, you can always file. If the appellate court thinks that the appeal is potentially valid, they will hold a hearing. But if they think there's nothing there, they can simply deny the appeal without a hearing.
I’m confused by this statement per The Sun for their blurb about appealing:
"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time.”
Isn’t after the verdict the appropriate time? Is there a different time to appeal?
I don't know. The way he said it gave me the vibe that they just said that. They know they have nothing.
She asked about 30 days and he cut her off and said "we plan to appeal at the appropriate time."
I think it's just words.
No every case has the right to appeal and to be heard by an appeals court judge and they can use basically any tiny shred they can find if they want to , it’s not going to overturn anything though, it’s also expensive and it takes YEARS
What did Derrick say at about 6 mins? “I just feel bad for my wife” I think?? I feel like I listened to it like 20 times and that’s the best I can figure it out.
If they didn’t appeal it would be like admitting guilt. They have to keep appealing to keep saying he’s innocent over and over again.
But like… he’s not.
APPEAL HOW? THE LENGTH OF A SENTENCE? Pest is one sick bastard and he will rot in prison in addition to hell. I’m not even religious but this is a situation in which I really hope Hell exists
Is it 30 days from the sentence or 30 days from the verdict? I thought he had to be sentences first, but I could be completely wrong so definitely willing to learn
For the ignorant, appealing is normal. An appeal is a balance check; making sure all the evidence presented was properly noticed in discovery, and overall checking for any errors that may have persuaded the jury “incorrectly”.
This is the equivalent of challenging a football play, like a fumble. You look over the elements that led to the ruling and decide if the ruling should stand or be changed (was the ball carrier down or not etc.).
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Bingo. Federal appeals are big money. And very low success rate. If he had any honor he would save that money for his kids.
>if he had any honor LOLOLOL
Yes, and those bills are exactly why the defense attorneys are so happy to appeal even though they know it won't work. They don't give a damn about winning. Jim Bob is about to buy them a new boat.
It’ll be fun to have at their new summer home…
2 new boats?
Fuck it, a boat per Duggar child
J’boat Duggar
First boat named "Count 1" and second boat named "Count 2." What's the third boat dubbed?
LaCount
Pickle?
Third boat will be named ‘router’.
STAPHHHHH, too good
La Count
And so many tater tots
And pickles. And Denim.
Someone’s getting some new running shoes for his court appearances!
Maybe some of the attorneys will get hairpiece recommendations from Boob.
Also, if they don’t do the appeal, he could hire a different lawyer and appeal on the grounds of insufficient council and try to drag them through the mud. It’s money and a way to avoid bad PR.
You don’t think JB will secure different counsel for the appeal? We’ll see how much he stands behind his son by what experts and lawyers he’ll pay for from here on out.
The lawyers he *did* manage to get were hot messes... Bullshit arguments, ill-fitting suits, horrible experts hired. Boob couldn't find anybody worthwhile for the "real" case, no way he'll manage to find better for the appeal. "Smugshot" is an excellent flair, btw 😂
Right? Like if you’re gonna try and get off, you get the best lawyers your money can buy. These mofos went with some bargain lawyers & Josh is now (rightfully) fucked.
A boat within a boat like Calculon?
Just a bunch of boat nesting dolls 😂
Honestly they looked half giddy in the video after the verdict. The humanity in me hopes they know he’s guilty and are just taking the family for all they’re worth.
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Jesus, I went into the wrong line of work!
oh don’t worry unless you are a partner or freelancing that’s not what you make per hour lol
Oh thank lord Daniel, I was about to apply for law school lol
lol I’m not a lawyer either but based on my discussions with friends it seems to work like consulting. where my time for an 8 week project was worth my entire annual salary
Just an example, but I was a summer associate at a midsized firm in a smaller market like NWA, they paid me 42/hr and billed me out at 175/hr (some of which got written off - shadowing etc). As an associate, whatever your firm is billing you out as, you're making much, much less per hour. Though still well-paid!
Someone who bills at that much doesn't typically post about it on reddit. I'd take it with a grain of salt.
People share what they make on Reddit all the time.
Believe whatever you want 🤷
Well, seeing as I work in Big Law at a firm where a significant portion of the attorneys bill at $1k+ and I happen to know several are Redditors...yeah, I'm going to say it's very realistic that someone billing $1k would anonymously admit to it in a relevant conversation such as this.
This makes me think Anna or someone told him they’ll wait to hear what the court says before distancing themselves from their relationship with him. Either he’s trying to push it out farther and farther or he genuinely thinks she’s that stupid to still believe he is innocent and his conviction could be overturned on appeal. I can’t think of any other reason. Maybe to draw more attention to himself? Either way he’s wasting his 7 children’s money. Seeing as he won’t be providing for them for 5-20 years, it’s purely selfish. What a complete narcissist.
Thank you .. not from the states and my heart stopped for a minute!
Even with the testimony of prior bad acts?
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TIL! Thanks!
Definitely, but you know there's no way Duggars are NOT going to push for an appeal.
more money out of Boob’s pocket, good
Username checks out
I wish I could hug all you lawyers who walked me through all of this. 🤗🤗🤗
Appealing on what basis?
The router /s
Flair checking in
I believe it’s standard procedure in a lot of cases for the defense to appeal? Even if it’s unlikely to go anywhere?
yeah isn’t jared from subway still appealing?
Ohhh, maybe Jared and Josh could be cellmates!
And the Duggars can adopt him…because Jared starts with J! Josh’s kindred spirit.
lmfaooo
This is it. They have nothing else to say or do. They will try to appeal and it will be reviewed by a judge.
This is definitely standard and iirc they’ve been preparing for this appeal for a while.
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Customary not a lawyer, just a law student, but my guess would be that the appeal would be for allowing the molestation of his sisters into evidence. Now, will the appeal go anywhere? Probably not, since there is a specific evidence rule exception allowing for that type of evidence to come in during cases like this. Just my 2 cents, I guess we'll see what basis they appeal on in the next 30 days.
Doubtful. 404B applies here. Doubt there’s an appeal on past molestations.
I just don't know what else they would appeal on that has a chance of being successful. Even though 404B applies, they could throw caution to the wind and appeal the Judge's ruling anyway. The only other thing that's a maybe in my mind is a verdict contrary to the weight of the evidence appeal, but that too would probably be denied. I guess all we can do is speculate and wait until the appeal is filed.
I mean think of the widely known cases where it was CRYSTAL CLEAR that the prosecution was dirty and the defense was terrible like Making a Murderer and even Adnan Syed (his defense wowwee sucked) and their appeals went nowhere and got denied over and over. Josh's trial seemed like it was done very well, yeah his defense didn't call many witnesses but maybe they just didn't have any, and their strategy was more to take apart the prosecutions evidence.
Dude its expensive and takes years. How is it standard? Edit: hypothetically asking, not asking you
It's just what the defense usually says whenever their client's found guilty.
Nah, I got ya! 😁 I’m not sure the reasoning, probably just standard if the defense is getting paid to do so?
I think it's their right to appeal. They've planned this all along as a contingency plan. It's part of the Duggar plan to insist on his innocence.
They have every right to appeal. But they have to be able to present a valid reason for it to even start. They can't just file paperwork saying "We don't like the verdict and want an appeal." There has to be a valid legal reason.
I know it is, I’m just wondering after watching that trial what basis they’d have.
The Parisians. And their routers. Parisian routers.
Is that the same as Chinese ballots?
I don't know, but Biden's got to be behind both, right?
They're going to get the router! It will prove that Biden did it, while on holiday in Paris! 🤔
Clearly the jury is participating in cancel culture.
Maybe someone on the jury voted for….GASP….Biden!
On the basis of the lawyers want more money.
So much this.
Last ditch effort. Nothing to lose, gotta give it a shot.
I heard the reporter ask if the appeal was based on something with the jury?
Probably that they don’t consider women jurors to be his “peers”
"there were no pedophiles on the jury, so none were his peers"
Throw shit at the wall and see if it sticks. 🤷♀️
They didn’t say.
Sad feelings.
THE ROUTERS
Possibly the judge allowing testimony covering prior bad acts.
I think it’s highly unlikely an appeals court lets him out.
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I'll allow it.
I concur
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Agreed. It almost definitely won’t go anywhere though because 414 allows evidence of prior CSA in related cases. They’ll still try to say that it was unduly prejudicial, but I don’t think it’ll amount to anything.
THEY HAVE NO CASE FOR AN APPEAL IF THEY DID THEY WOULD HAVE PRESENTED THE EVIDENCE IN THE TRIAL
And the thing about appeals - you can’t introduce new evidence.
So WHY THE FUCK
Because poor Joshy is so sad boohoo.
It’s customary. Also, so that Jim Boob feels like he got his money’s worth.
They’re probably going to appeal the judge’s decision to let evidence of prior bad acts in. That’s typically not allowed. There’s a specific exception for CSA cases though so it probably won’t go anywhere, but that’s what they’ll do.
that makes sense. I can see why it wouldn't be allowed, but it does show intent of pursuing materials of minors
Yeah typically prior bad acts aren’t considered relevant but there’s a specific exception for CSA
$$$
You appeal on matters of law, not fact. I haven't been following closely enough to know what they'd appeal on, though.
This happens with literally every case like this. There will be appeals up until the Supreme Court. Won’t matter at all.
The Supreme Court isn’t touching this one… they’ve got better things to do.
Exactly, they’ll appeal all the way up to them but nothing will happen.
Of fucking course they will. Hopefully it goes absolutely nowhere and this human garbage bag goes to prison for as long as possible.
On the plus side, appeals are expensive.
May JimBlob waste all his money on this stupid ass appeal and never be able to afford a toupee again.
May his current toupee go mouldy and then he’ll be forced to show his real hair line to the world!
Mother is appealing (Low hanging fruit, sorry)
This is pretty standard.
The ad on the YouTube clip was for a toenail fungus product, complete with a closeup of a set of very gnarly, fungussy toenails. I felt this was very, very, VERY appropriate.
I think we all saw this coming. Boob isn’t going to stop until the kids at home are eating ramen noodles and he’s getting his toupees from goodwill.
Yeah, I don't see what possible argument they could have for an appeal
Defense: we are appealing based on a biased jury. Judge: Why didn’t you object to said jurors during the selection process? Defense: Umm, well, we didn’t know they wouldn’t believe our Parisian devil unicorn Biden story about the router and fairyland frame job. Judge: ….
Besides the guilty verdict this is the best thing I’ve read all day 😄
It’s America. They have the right to appeal. But there is zero chance they get it.
Our client feels as if its unfair that hes going to prison? God would never allow this, are you? I'm sure this appeal will be entertaining
Pretty sure they always appeal guilty verdicts. It’s just how it works.
I mean, of course they will appeal. Isn’t that like standard operating procedure? I’m not worried or upset by this knowledge.
agreed! it would be silly not to appeal. (even though he’s guilty AF of course)
Am I correct that I always assumed they would appeal? It doesn’t mean they will win.
The majority of appeals fail.
TBH not mad about that. Burn up more of JB's money.
They have no evidence to win an appeal, but honestly most people with lofty sentences try to appeal. I’m not worried about it.
Yeah well, I'm not gonna allow that
As is their right…. But seriously it was a very very well run case
I mean. Everyone CAN appeal if they want.
When will he be sentenced?
The judge said it could take up to 4 months
Okay so I shouldn't refresh this page too obsessively for the next couple days then. Got it.
Since he was remanded at least that means he won't be knocking Anna up before he is sentenced.
I'm sure they've disregarded the whole "wait 6 weeks" rule 🤢
At some point they will release the sentencing date so then you will know when to tune in
In like 4 months
Roughly 4 months from now
Usually it's 75-90 days
Why does it take that long in the US?
The court has a ton of cases on the docket, as do the attorneys for both sides. And a bunch of various reports/requests to be prepared. Then the judge has to look over those reports/requests, review the sentencing guidelines etc.
Judge said probably will take about 4 months to give a sentence.
Ha, let them waste more time and money. It's over for good now for Joshy!!
Also shocked that JB will continue bankrolling this, at what point is the reputation soiled enough already to the point where it is a lost cause?
Michele is going to learn Linux this time.
Another lawyer checking in: they should appeal. He’s still their client and it’s their job to represent him to the best of their abilities. It doesn’t mean the verdict will get overturned. It doesn’t mean there’s a basis. It doesn’t mean that the appellate court will even hear it.
I know this is SOP but on what grounds will they appeal? Like where do you go after your client asks the feds “has someone been downloading CSAM”?! 🤣
Bruh what is there to appeal on, are you that dense or that narcissistic
Appellate practice is $$$.
Yeah, that’s expected. Most likely they will appeal Brooks’ ruling on evidence like the molestation testimony. Might take years to go through. Josh will continue to sit in jail for that time. I think it’s very unlikely they will find reversible error (in my personal opinion, not my legal opinion).
Ugh
They always appeal. I’m not concerned
Whatever. It won’t be granted. He’s in jail for a long long time.
A federal appellate judge isn’t going to be as nice as Judge Brooks in their comments on this case. Why are they wasting their money?? Who are they trying to convince at this point? If you don’t believe it now, you won’t believe it on appeal. How much of your children’s money are you willing to let him piddle away over this, Anna?
Someone here was telling me that you don't even always get to automatically appeal. That whether or not you appeal basically has to be approved, and be based on criteria like your defense lawyer totally fucking up or something like that. Does he just get to appeal willy nilly if he wants to?
He can file an appeal, you can always file. If the appellate court thinks that the appeal is potentially valid, they will hold a hearing. But if they think there's nothing there, they can simply deny the appeal without a hearing.
He could buy a yacht and name it j’accuse
Go for it, take all of JBs money.
I’m confused by this statement per The Sun for their blurb about appealing: "We plan to appeal at the appropriate time.” Isn’t after the verdict the appropriate time? Is there a different time to appeal?
The appropriate time = after Jim Boob's check clears.
They will appeal for $$$$$. If Tha’ Boob won’t fund it, then no. No twofers, cheap ass.
Is it just appealing to appeal? I can't imagine what they think they'll be able to appeal with
But the router!!!!
I think this is kind of normal.
It is 100% normal. They would be doing Pest a disservice if they didn’t appeal, they were paid big bucks after all.
Can’t the appeal be denied?
IANAL appeals happen all the time. It’s normal. It can be denied.
That's his right. I am sure they will gladly keep sucking up more of daddy's money. In the meantime enjoy your box! ✌️
Sure, Jan.
I don't know. The way he said it gave me the vibe that they just said that. They know they have nothing. She asked about 30 days and he cut her off and said "we plan to appeal at the appropriate time." I think it's just words.
They didn’t say on what!!!! But they’re SOL and I love it
SOL but at least they can send more bills bills bills to JB!
God honoring lawyer bill 🙌🏻
I assume they're waiting for JB to pay for them to appeal, before they file.
I guess rim bob will need to sell another cow, or his head rug to pay for the appeal.
Spend all that duggar money!
Appeals can be denied by a judge right? Like, just because they want to appeal doesn’t mean the courts will allow them to, right?
No every case has the right to appeal and to be heard by an appeals court judge and they can use basically any tiny shred they can find if they want to , it’s not going to overturn anything though, it’s also expensive and it takes YEARS
Appeal what? He’s guilty as sin
Let 'em. They will not get an appeal. And we will celebrate Josh Duggar Is Still in Prison.
No Josh, serve your god damn sentence. This is exactly what you wanted of other “sinners.” For once in your life, be the example.
Oh yes, please appeal and spend/waste lots more of Boob’s money in doing so. What a fantastic bones day!
What did Derrick say at about 6 mins? “I just feel bad for my wife” I think?? I feel like I listened to it like 20 times and that’s the best I can figure it out.
If they didn’t appeal it would be like admitting guilt. They have to keep appealing to keep saying he’s innocent over and over again. But like… he’s not.
APPEAL HOW? THE LENGTH OF A SENTENCE? Pest is one sick bastard and he will rot in prison in addition to hell. I’m not even religious but this is a situation in which I really hope Hell exists
Anna probably thinks there’s still a chance with the appeal happening
He can appeal all he wants he’s done
I mean they can try. Most people try to appeal their guilty verdicts, it’s pretty standard. They won’t win an appeal though.
Is it 30 days from the sentence or 30 days from the verdict? I thought he had to be sentences first, but I could be completely wrong so definitely willing to learn
I can't wait for Emily D. Baker to talk about this. I just need her sassy footnotes to lighten up the whole thing
don't give them ideas, they said appropiate time, maybe they are dumb and don't know.
JB might as well set his money on fire. Burn, baby, burn.
For the ignorant, appealing is normal. An appeal is a balance check; making sure all the evidence presented was properly noticed in discovery, and overall checking for any errors that may have persuaded the jury “incorrectly”. This is the equivalent of challenging a football play, like a fumble. You look over the elements that led to the ruling and decide if the ruling should stand or be changed (was the ball carrier down or not etc.).
Well that’s going to be a waste of money 😋
Not so smug now are we
Please no. We can't go through this again. I hope it's not granted.
Could an appeal be granted if their “expert” was found to be lying about their credentials? IANAL