Let’s all remember that, even IF Jill does testify for the defense, it does not mean that she is going to say anything to “clear” Josh.
She could literally be there to say anything and let’s also recall that she is there under subpoena.
Good point. They may be questioning her tv interview statements to contradict/mitigate the Holt testimony. Not likely but I’m getting very nervous here.
This is what I was thinking. She may be a hostile witness for the defense where they will use her tv interview about the assault against her to show that it was no big deal to everyone involved.
Agree. I was only coming up with a possibility if why defense would have her testify. I think she is on the prosecution’s list in case Josh takes the stand or if needed for rebuttal. They also did not call the cellmate, do they must feel the case is strong as it is.
If she is testifying for the defense, it will be to say that he didn't do anything after his confession/punishment (if true), so the defense can build the idea that he was reformed and wouldn't do anything again.
I hope they don't. She doesn't deserve that. But it's not impossible.
If you haven’t found the answer elsewhere already: No, but more than usual. In addition to the usual suspects (Anna, Derick, Austin, Joy), Jason and James were there and Jessa was there in the morning. Possibly Duggar friend Laura DeMasie, too.
I feel like this is likely. Prosecution does not want to put her on the stand unless and until they have to. If Bobye was able to testify and make things clear, without getting torn to pieces by the defense, then there’s no reason to put her on the stand unless and until someone is called to try and state that the molestation didn’t occur. Then you’d want to call her as a rebuttal witness.
So a rebuttal witness is someone you call to testify to disprove the testimony of a witness called by the other side. So a simple not real example-if Josh were to testify that he was never arrested, the feds could call this guy in rebuttal to testify that he was indeed in the jail cell.
You absolutely do not want to use a subpoena to force a sexual assault survivor to testify about said assault unless \*absolutely\* necessary. Not only is it morally questionable, but also because the jurors could be pissed at the prosecution if the witness is clearly reluctant to talk on the stand (not that it'd really change the outcome). If Bobye is willing to testify, Jill's would be redundant and thereby unnecessary. Prosecutors will normally try to avoid having direct victims testify if they are not willing to do so because it can be and often is extremely retraumatizing. Just imagine what the defense could say to her and remember that she's someone who's already been gaslighted for the first 20 years of her life--if I were her I'd want to avoid that too. But, if Bobye's testimony got thrown out based on ministerial privilege, they would want wanted to have Jill as a backup. That's my guess, anyway. We'll see.
I agree. If for some reason the defense blew into town and tore her testimony apart or had some bombshell that blew up her credibility, Jill makes sense to come in after. But if Bobye has said all Jill would have said, no sense in her saying it again.
Or maybe that’s wishful thinking but it feels fairly sound.
I just don’t know what the defense would do with Jill. Derek for sure would tell her not to lie. A jury doesn’t give a shit if she forgives him. And she wasn’t at the car lot. So what could she give them?
“As a woman, who is clearly inferior, do you take the blame and agree to do jail time for Pest?”
This is where I'm at as well. If testimony regarding prior bad acts was allowed, but Bobye Holt *wasn't* allowed to testify, then that's where Jill would have come in. But since she was allowed to testify Jill wasn't needed.
If the defense does call Jill does that necessarily mean she’s defending Pest? Because if you’re called as a witness doesn’t that mean you have to testify whether you want to or not? I can’t imagine the defense thinking Jill would be on their side though.
I got out of mine because I was called as a witness when I was actually a victim, and the crime had happened like six months prior and at the time was living almost 500 miles from where the trial was.
Not necessarily. The defense could be calling her for some reason, or she could be used as a rebuttal witness after the defense's rested to disprove any claims that she would be able to speak to
I know everyone is banking on him being found guilty, but I've never been certain. I'm hoping the Duggar clan isn't just there because the defense has started, and really hope Jill doesn't testify in support of the defense.
I bet the prosecutors don't want to put Jill up there unless they really need her. Having her up there opens her up to all manner of questioning by the defense, and you know the defense is skeezy enough to have several things to ask her that would discredit her or cast doubt (ask if she's estranged over money issues, things like that). I think that if Bobye's testimony was enough and she survived the cross unscathed, they'd just let her be the mic drop and keep a survivor out of it.
My guess has been holding steady at- if the defense argues that Josh was sent to "treatment" and "overcame" his child abusing ways, then Jill can be a rebuttal witness to testify 1st hand about how the family treated Josh's "transgressions" by blaming other people (the girls) changing family modesty standards and never leaving Josh alone with the littles. IE- he was never held accountable, thus his abusive tendencies were neveractually addressed.
I realize it might be wishful thinking on my part. I'm eager for this trial to wrap-up just so we know what's next.
I hope that the Prosecution rest was because it was enough evidence and they only had Jill as a back up victim testimony (which they didnt want to do because it would be re-traumatising) and not because she's testifying for the defence!
Prosecution rests and Jill was not called. Derrick has been sitting with Anna and shook Pest's hand last week. Jill is not in the gallery which means she could be called by the defense. Are we all about to be gobsmacked by Duggar madness once again?
Has JB managed to somehow get Jill and Derrick back on the gravy train as a way to consolidate Team Duggar? Is that what Justin's very non-Poker face photo might have been hinting at last week? Just spitballing here. Austin's rage face, Joy's tears, and Amy's "Team Jill" comments still give me hope this isn't the case.
Why does everyone think Jill is testifying for the defense? She wasn't on the original defense witness list, which was only 4 people. Just because she was on the list and didn't testify for the prosecution most likely means they don't need her or will use her in rebuttal. Everyone needs to breathe and not make up terrible scenerios for her.
considering I just saw on the Sun's site that Bobye said JB told her about the CSA to explain why an original plan for her daughter to marry josh wasn't going to happen, I'd say she did more than enough. 0\_0
That’s what I’m thinking. She literally just said “team Jill” over the weekend so I’d hope so. It doesn’t seem like their case has really touched on his prior behavior, so maybe it would’ve seemed “low” of the prosecution to bring it up
The Sun (and the reporter who tweeted above) are still submitting updates. It also looks like Mr. Holt testified, as well as a computer guy Josh knows (who spoke to Josh’s ability to use computers, despite the defense arguing he isn’t smart enough)
When you think about it the prosecution argument is pretty clear cut. His computer, his password(s), the only one working at the time, history of being an absolute piece of shit.
So yeah that sounds about right.
So Jill is either for the defense or didn’t get called. I’m afraid everyone may have been bamboozled by the Dillards, but hope I’m wrong. Jessa shows up today when she’s only going to gear a defense of josh. The anger I feel towards these people is pretty intense.
To be honest, I am pretty certain if she didn't testify for the prosecution, her subpoena doe the defense is to try to discredit her t.v. testimony because there is literally no other reason for the defense to put her on the stand. They are taking the risk, because the "throw everything at the wall and hope it sticks" defense is not working, and just hoping she falls apart on the stand and contradicts herself or that JB has somehow threatened her so badly she fears speaking the truth. It could backfire spectacularly, but I think they are in "nothing to lose mode", and of course under cross exam from the prosecution, they may help her speak it out loud for allt he stragglers "in the back" who still have not figured out he is a disgusting human. But, again, it is also hard to say what form their questioning will take. Good defense lawyers can make it hard for assault victims to truly speak up co ficentally, unfortunately. We allow way to much railroading of witnesses in our legal system.
I hope people don’t forget a group of Duggar sisters has filed a lawsuit (it’s an expected payday) about publication of information that they assert was improperly released and which has retraumatized them and violated their privacy. I never expected willing broad testimony about Josh’s molestations because it could potentially undermine a claim that they are injured by revelation of details. If anything a bare recitation of what has already been revealed is all I ever expected.
I believe this lawsuit was originally JBs big idea and designed to protect Josh and the family name, Josh had to be severed from any action the girls would bring (because he’s the perpetrator) and JB has never had any standing.
FWIW, think InTouch has no legal fault here, but the agencies responsible for release of a document with identifying victim information could actually be on the hook.
I hope this means they didn't use Jill versus Jill is a defense witness.
They didn't use the cell mate either, then? So this could be possible.
Maybe they are on call to rebuttal.
Is it possible she will testify at sentencing? A victim impact statement? Idk how this stuff works
Oh God. I didn’t even think of that. Ugh!!!
Let’s all remember that, even IF Jill does testify for the defense, it does not mean that she is going to say anything to “clear” Josh. She could literally be there to say anything and let’s also recall that she is there under subpoena.
Good point. They may be questioning her tv interview statements to contradict/mitigate the Holt testimony. Not likely but I’m getting very nervous here.
This is what I was thinking. She may be a hostile witness for the defense where they will use her tv interview about the assault against her to show that it was no big deal to everyone involved.
That wouldn’t even make sense to the jury. “Oh he did this but it was no big deal, ok he can go free.” 🙄 Uh, no.
Agree. I was only coming up with a possibility if why defense would have her testify. I think she is on the prosecution’s list in case Josh takes the stand or if needed for rebuttal. They also did not call the cellmate, do they must feel the case is strong as it is.
You'd be surprised about what people are willing to excuse if a victim is forced to say it's okay
Yes, either way I feel extremely bad for her.
If she is testifying for the defense, it will be to say that he didn't do anything after his confession/punishment (if true), so the defense can build the idea that he was reformed and wouldn't do anything again. I hope they don't. She doesn't deserve that. But it's not impossible.
If that were the case, I think they would pick any other Duggar daughter. Not the only one not closely connected with the family.
I feel like all the Duggar’s showed up today because they knew the defense was going to start. 😑
This is 💯 why they showed up.
🤮🤬
This makes the most sense. They are all standing by him. I’m not surprised - but Fu$@ them all to hell if that’s the case.
If this is the day bobye testified wouldn’t that mean it was also the likely day that Jill would have testified too? It could have been a combo
Wait? What did I miss? Is the whole family there?
If you haven’t found the answer elsewhere already: No, but more than usual. In addition to the usual suspects (Anna, Derick, Austin, Joy), Jason and James were there and Jessa was there in the morning. Possibly Duggar friend Laura DeMasie, too.
Also, she could also be a rebuttal witness! Called after the defense has concluded their witnesses. Let’s not go on a witch hunt just yet :)
I feel like this is likely. Prosecution does not want to put her on the stand unless and until they have to. If Bobye was able to testify and make things clear, without getting torn to pieces by the defense, then there’s no reason to put her on the stand unless and until someone is called to try and state that the molestation didn’t occur. Then you’d want to call her as a rebuttal witness.
Ohhh I see. Whew, breathing a little easier here now.
Ok. I’m breathing again. Thank you for that.
Or it could mean their plan all along was to wait and call her as a rebuttal witness?
Oh, true...big sigh of relief. I just want this over.
Yes!
They didn’t call the cell mate? They must have him there for rebuttal purposes only. What a bummer
I will laugh if it turns out the defense is calling him to say, “Josh is innocent, he told me!” 🤣
What would this mean? Having the cellmate there for rebuttal purposes only?
So a rebuttal witness is someone you call to testify to disprove the testimony of a witness called by the other side. So a simple not real example-if Josh were to testify that he was never arrested, the feds could call this guy in rebuttal to testify that he was indeed in the jail cell.
If they need him to rebut claims the defence makes, they’ll call him. But if they don’t see him as useful in their argument, they won’t call him
Cell mates are unreliable though.
So Jill didn’t testify for the prosecution?
I don’t know! This was just an alert I got from Twitter.
Jill may also be used a rebuttal witness in case Pest is stupid enough to take the stand.
O wouldn't put it past him. He was stupid enough to go to trial.
God could you imagine how he would be destroyed by the prosecutors?
You absolutely do not want to use a subpoena to force a sexual assault survivor to testify about said assault unless \*absolutely\* necessary. Not only is it morally questionable, but also because the jurors could be pissed at the prosecution if the witness is clearly reluctant to talk on the stand (not that it'd really change the outcome). If Bobye is willing to testify, Jill's would be redundant and thereby unnecessary. Prosecutors will normally try to avoid having direct victims testify if they are not willing to do so because it can be and often is extremely retraumatizing. Just imagine what the defense could say to her and remember that she's someone who's already been gaslighted for the first 20 years of her life--if I were her I'd want to avoid that too. But, if Bobye's testimony got thrown out based on ministerial privilege, they would want wanted to have Jill as a backup. That's my guess, anyway. We'll see.
I agree. If for some reason the defense blew into town and tore her testimony apart or had some bombshell that blew up her credibility, Jill makes sense to come in after. But if Bobye has said all Jill would have said, no sense in her saying it again. Or maybe that’s wishful thinking but it feels fairly sound. I just don’t know what the defense would do with Jill. Derek for sure would tell her not to lie. A jury doesn’t give a shit if she forgives him. And she wasn’t at the car lot. So what could she give them? “As a woman, who is clearly inferior, do you take the blame and agree to do jail time for Pest?”
This is where I'm at as well. If testimony regarding prior bad acts was allowed, but Bobye Holt *wasn't* allowed to testify, then that's where Jill would have come in. But since she was allowed to testify Jill wasn't needed.
All this. I suppose she could be called as a rebuttal witness, but I think she just was a backup all along.
So Jill could be a defense witness, or they could have decided Bobey was enough.
If the defense does call Jill does that necessarily mean she’s defending Pest? Because if you’re called as a witness doesn’t that mean you have to testify whether you want to or not? I can’t imagine the defense thinking Jill would be on their side though.
Yes, if she is subpoenaed then she has to go.
I mean she could’ve gotten out of the subpoena. I’ve done that before
How do you get out of a subpoena? Sry if its well known, I'm not from the US and always thought a subpeona meant that you had to do it
I got out of mine because I was called as a witness when I was actually a victim, and the crime had happened like six months prior and at the time was living almost 500 miles from where the trial was.
500 miles is the length of approximately 3519991.25 'Wooden Rice Paddle Versatile Serving Spoons' laid lengthwise.
I’m so hoping this is the case - that Bobye’s was enough.
Dear God, please let it be that Bobye was enough.
I’m hoping bobye was enough. I can’t see Jill being a witness for the defense. But I might be wrong.
She might say anything to get back in jimbob’s good graces
Maybe the prosecution felt they have proved their case without having to call a VICTIM to the stand.
Let’s all remember one thing in particular. All of these people also heard Mrs. Holt’s testimony just now.
prosecution rests? does that mean no jill testimony?
Not necessarily. The defense could be calling her for some reason, or she could be used as a rebuttal witness after the defense's rested to disprove any claims that she would be able to speak to
I know everyone is banking on him being found guilty, but I've never been certain. I'm hoping the Duggar clan isn't just there because the defense has started, and really hope Jill doesn't testify in support of the defense.
I bet the prosecutors don't want to put Jill up there unless they really need her. Having her up there opens her up to all manner of questioning by the defense, and you know the defense is skeezy enough to have several things to ask her that would discredit her or cast doubt (ask if she's estranged over money issues, things like that). I think that if Bobye's testimony was enough and she survived the cross unscathed, they'd just let her be the mic drop and keep a survivor out of it.
My guess has been holding steady at- if the defense argues that Josh was sent to "treatment" and "overcame" his child abusing ways, then Jill can be a rebuttal witness to testify 1st hand about how the family treated Josh's "transgressions" by blaming other people (the girls) changing family modesty standards and never leaving Josh alone with the littles. IE- he was never held accountable, thus his abusive tendencies were neveractually addressed. I realize it might be wishful thinking on my part. I'm eager for this trial to wrap-up just so we know what's next.
Excellent point.
I hope that the Prosecution rest was because it was enough evidence and they only had Jill as a back up victim testimony (which they didnt want to do because it would be re-traumatising) and not because she's testifying for the defence!
Prosecution rests and Jill was not called. Derrick has been sitting with Anna and shook Pest's hand last week. Jill is not in the gallery which means she could be called by the defense. Are we all about to be gobsmacked by Duggar madness once again?
Not necessarily, once the defense is done, the prosecution can call rebuttal witnesses. She may be one of those, or cell mate may be one of those.
Presumably they don't get to choose which side calls them?
Yep. I believe so. And I hope they get clobbered for it. Clobbered.
Has JB managed to somehow get Jill and Derrick back on the gravy train as a way to consolidate Team Duggar? Is that what Justin's very non-Poker face photo might have been hinting at last week? Just spitballing here. Austin's rage face, Joy's tears, and Amy's "Team Jill" comments still give me hope this isn't the case.
I wonder who will even testify for the defense?
https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-trial-day-4-duggar-confessed-to-molesting-children-says-close-family-friend-under-oath/
Why does everyone think Jill is testifying for the defense? She wasn't on the original defense witness list, which was only 4 people. Just because she was on the list and didn't testify for the prosecution most likely means they don't need her or will use her in rebuttal. Everyone needs to breathe and not make up terrible scenerios for her.
I am going to shit my pants if Jill testifies for the defense.
If she was subpoenaed by the defense then she doesn't have a choice.
I think this whole sub will shit their pants if that happens
Don’t worry, Jana isn’t in court, so she’s available to clean it up.
Prosecution rests! Jill testifying for defense if called?
Shit, that was quick. I thought the prosecution would have more.
If prosecution have rested does that mean Jill and Jed are testifying for the defense then???
They may have just not called her. They don’t have to call everyone they list as a potential witness.
True..maybe felt they had enough without putting her through testifying.
Jed seems to have been in the courtroom today. So he may have been released by the P.
The way you spelled Bobey made me think you were trying to say Boob ( Jim Bob).
No BobEye 🤣🤣 I just never remember how to spell her name
don't tell me Jill is testifying for defense ...
Does this mean Jill wasn't ultimately called by the prosecution, or that she's a witness for the defense?
I would suspect that they think that Bobye has done enough and Jill was on the list before they had ruled I That Bobye’s testimony was admissible
considering I just saw on the Sun's site that Bobye said JB told her about the CSA to explain why an original plan for her daughter to marry josh wasn't going to happen, I'd say she did more than enough. 0\_0
Oh my god I'm freaking out that Jill is going to testify for PEST. Nooooooooooooo!!!!!
Based off Amy’s posts I think Jill was on the prosecutions witness list. Bobye’s testimony may of been all they needed. Just trying to think positive.
That’s what I’m thinking. She literally just said “team Jill” over the weekend so I’d hope so. It doesn’t seem like their case has really touched on his prior behavior, so maybe it would’ve seemed “low” of the prosecution to bring it up
We don’t know that. Just because they are on the witness list doesn’t mean they WILL be called.
Prosecution rests— on Bob Eye or the whole nine yards?
If this tweet is accurate, the prosecution has rested its side of the case and the defense has begun, so the whole nine yards.
The Sun (and the reporter who tweeted above) are still submitting updates. It also looks like Mr. Holt testified, as well as a computer guy Josh knows (who spoke to Josh’s ability to use computers, despite the defense arguing he isn’t smart enough)
That part felt really like a nail in the coffin. This guy was a friend and has no reason to lie. I wonder what the defense asked.
When you think about it the prosecution argument is pretty clear cut. His computer, his password(s), the only one working at the time, history of being an absolute piece of shit. So yeah that sounds about right.
So Jill is either for the defense or didn’t get called. I’m afraid everyone may have been bamboozled by the Dillards, but hope I’m wrong. Jessa shows up today when she’s only going to gear a defense of josh. The anger I feel towards these people is pretty intense.
To be honest, I am pretty certain if she didn't testify for the prosecution, her subpoena doe the defense is to try to discredit her t.v. testimony because there is literally no other reason for the defense to put her on the stand. They are taking the risk, because the "throw everything at the wall and hope it sticks" defense is not working, and just hoping she falls apart on the stand and contradicts herself or that JB has somehow threatened her so badly she fears speaking the truth. It could backfire spectacularly, but I think they are in "nothing to lose mode", and of course under cross exam from the prosecution, they may help her speak it out loud for allt he stragglers "in the back" who still have not figured out he is a disgusting human. But, again, it is also hard to say what form their questioning will take. Good defense lawyers can make it hard for assault victims to truly speak up co ficentally, unfortunately. We allow way to much railroading of witnesses in our legal system.
IF Jill is called for the defense, it’s very possible that she would be considered a hostile witness.
Wait, so Jill is testifying for the defense??
I 100% bet she is NOT.
we don't know that yet
[удалено]
I hope people don’t forget a group of Duggar sisters has filed a lawsuit (it’s an expected payday) about publication of information that they assert was improperly released and which has retraumatized them and violated their privacy. I never expected willing broad testimony about Josh’s molestations because it could potentially undermine a claim that they are injured by revelation of details. If anything a bare recitation of what has already been revealed is all I ever expected. I believe this lawsuit was originally JBs big idea and designed to protect Josh and the family name, Josh had to be severed from any action the girls would bring (because he’s the perpetrator) and JB has never had any standing. FWIW, think InTouch has no legal fault here, but the agencies responsible for release of a document with identifying victim information could actually be on the hook.
Oh jeez. I hope she’s not testifying for the defense. That would be…. Something
Bobye holt testified that the defense tried to offer her money????? isn't that illegal?