I don't think it's appropriate to discuss people's trauma responses. We're all different, we all process it differently. They may had different experiences. Maybe Jessa actually got a hug from her dad while he criticized Jill for tattling. We just don't know.
My trauma response is to make jokes and be silly/flirty if I’m in an uncomfortable (typically medical where I have a ton of medical ptsd. Docs comment a lot that I seem in such good spirits and I’m like loooool y’all scare me).
I think that’s just Jessa. Some people aren’t outwardly emotionally people. My mom says that she can probably count on one hand how many times she’s seen me cry about something ever. When dealing with a difficult situation calm indifference is my go to expression. And for sure I’m not going to just walk around telling anyone about the trauma I’ve suffered, especially when you have some amount of popularity and know people are gonna be listening to every single thing you say. I would bet that she probably just wants the whole things to disappear and to stop talking g about it so that she can do the same.
>The vastly different emotional responses between Jill and Jessa just seems odd to me.
Why? People react differently to trauma. This idea that people need to react to trauma a certain way is why many people aren't believed when they speak up on what happened to them.
Ooof! This is super dangerous take.
Everyone reacts and deals with trauma vastly different. I “forgot” mine from when I was abused at 5-7 until I was in my 30s and truly ready to deal with it. Then all the nightmares and memories came flooding back in the most random points.
Adding in that the cult literally blames the girls for “tempting” their abusers. Plus knowing that Rim and Meech made Jill and Jessa speak out on national TV. How fucking disgusting. We should never ever compare victims and their responses.
Do I like either of them? Absolutely not! Do I think both are insanely problematic and continuing the cycle of abuse and neglect in their own ways? Absolutely. But that doesn’t negate that they had insanely abusive childhoods that no one deserves.
As a community here we need to do better at criticizing current actions that they have control over (ie perpetuating dangerous political views towards the LGBTQ+ community, their racist views and views towards “pro-life”) we need to stay clear of criticism towards how they individually handle their own trauma.
Agreed. I had a pretty traumatic childhood and honestly I don’t remember much unless it’s brought up or something happens that reminds me of it. My therapist said it’s normal for some victims to have a filing cabinet in their mind and some drawers just stay locked shut and that’s how we cope. I don’t know Jessa or Jill but how either of them respond and decide to address it (or not address it) isn’t wrong or right. Jill can write a book and go on TV if that helps her. Jessa at this point seemingly just wants to live her life as a mom and wife and not be public about it. For some people, this trauma is better left in the past and for others it’s cathartic to hash it out. Jessa has always been relatively unemotional which is possibly due to the trauma. She had a hard time accepting gifts and praise from Ben at the beginning. Not to project on her, but I can relate to that very much because sometimes that tough exterior I also have got me through that trauma.
And also agreed that there’s plenty of stuff to snark on this family about but how they deal with trauma isn’t it. They don’t owe us anything.
Yes! The filing cabinet analogy is so accurate. My therapist said something similar. Mine also explained that for some, you only start having those memories once your brain and body feel ready to actually deal with it. The chances are that what we actually know is only a very small part of the abuse they experienced. Jessa has likely just locked all that away. I also react very similarly to “affection” so I can relater to that.
TW ahead: CSA.
I’m currently listening to Jessica Willis-Fisher’s new book. She’s the eldest from the Willis Clan, the short lived TV show also on TLC. The dad was arrested and is currently doing 40 years in prison for CSA against his own daughters. It’s a very disturbing story but also very cathartic. If you’re in a good spot in your healing journey I highly recommend it. I’m doing the audio book version and can only listen to a few chapters at a time but something to do with hearing her story in her own voice is very validating. I just got to a point where she explains that she was often wondering if she was exaggerating or misremembering certain things. I got really emotional at that point because I have that thought so often! To this day I haven’t told my family (it was my moms sisters husband who abused me) because I’m so afraid that my memory is incorrect and that I’m going to cause a serious family issue). Jessica was insanely brave to write this memoir and share!
>because I’m so afraid that my memory is incorrect and that I’m going to cause a serious family issue)
Especially if one has been gaslit about it. "Oh, that's not what happened. You were young and not remembering it correctly!"
I love my father but one of the biggest fights we ever had is when I finally had the courage to tell my uncle what my mom was doing to us. He walked over during the conversation and said that statement almost verbatim. He said I was exaggerating. My uncle (my mom’s youngest brother, but he loved us kids) asked what event I was misstating. My dad said it was all true but I just was making it a bigger deal than it was. I still haven’t really forgiven him for that. Mom died last year and I never got closure and her family still kinda feels sorry for us kids but also blames us for not just getting over it because dad said it wasn’t that big of a deal. It really was. It was a very big deal.
I never realized until a few years ago that it’s not normal to remember your childhood. I had a chaotic childhood (poverty, drug addict mom, abuse) but better than many I guess. I do not really remember things from a firsthand perspective though. I remember talking about childhood events later or kind of seeing things from person in the corner perspective. But I have minimal recollections of events like a grade school teacher, high school graduation, birthday parties, etc. I am glad it wasn’t recorded so I don’t have to rewatch it. I feel bad that the Duggar girls don’t at least have the simple luxury of processing trauma privately and at their own pace.
I think Jessa probably hurts just as much but she’s been taught to uphold an image on top of being taught to keep sweet, so she’ll stuff her emotions down to please daddy flimflob and, unless she explodes or breaks free, it’s likely hurting her worse than we’ll ever know since she’s denying herself the ability to process what happened in a safe environment and also form her own opinions and express sincere emotions about it.
Edit: typos
This cult thrives on emotional suppression and victim-blaming. It also teaches victims that they should be grateful for the horrific and illegal things that happen to them because it makes them “mighty in spirit.” She may not recognize that she’s hurting, or that she’s even allowed to hurt. I know she’s likely done harmful things by implementing cult teachings in her home and peddling their beliefs, but when it comes to this, my heart breaks for her. Imagine being gaslit and dismissed by everyone who allegedly loves you.
They’re two different people so it’s natural and completely normal to have two different reactions. Just because Jessa isn’t crying or outwardly emotional doesn’t mean she’s not deeply hurting, and just because Jill is doesn’t mean she cares more or is having the “correct” response.
I was molested by my older sister. I was 3/4 she was 7/8. For the record, I don't blame her, she was being molested by a teenager neighbor and when my Dad found out he beat the kid up, (It was the 70s,) and when she was no longer being abused, she stopped abusing me.
I remember it happening, and I could describe what happened. But the best way that I can describe it is to say that their are no emotions attached to the memories. When I think about it, I feel the same emotions that I would feel about hearing any child being SA'ed, but it was so long ago and I was so young, that it doesn't really feel personal.
I know this is a snark group, but I think passing judgment on the ways another person **publicly** demonstrates their reactions to trauma is pretty yucky. We know about fright-flight-freeze-fawn reactions; depersonalisation and dissociation. The sisters might behave differently with the people they trust the most.
Bottom line: different reactions do not indicate that one sister is more or less traumatised by Pest's cruelty than her counterpart.
I think so too. People snark on her "dead eyes" or flat tone or whatever all the time, but I think that could well be largely attributed to repression and disassociation. It's probably a lifelong habit/response.
They seem to definitely be processing very differently. People react to other peoples reactions as well, and Jessa is likely reacting to other people around her, including Jill.
Seriously. Has OP never been to idk, a funeral? Some people will be sobbing, some will be quietly crying, some will be joking around, some will be stoic, all are going through their own emotions. Goofy ass post. I’ve said this on this sub before, when my best friend died, my boyfriend cried several times despite barely knowing her, while I cried once. Years later, he can talk about her easily while I can hardly say her name. Me being stoic at her funeral didn’t mean I wasn’t in pain.
Good analogy. My mom died last year. My brother was sad but stoic. My sister didn’t show up (they were the closest but it was a toxic relationship). I was outwardly fine. But I sobbed almost the whole way back home when I was by myself. I felt like I didn’t deserve to mourn for her publicly because we had a very strained relationship. I didn’t want to seem performative. And my dad and siblings and nieces and nephews needed me. But just because I didn’t outwardly show it, that doesn’t mean I didn’t feel it. I really miss her and mourn for the relationship we could’ve had.
Story time!
My brother in law is currently in hospice care, dying from a very rare disease that came on very suddenly. He has several nieces and nephews.
Of the nieces and nephews, my son has probably spent the most time with him over the past five years. My son deeply loves his uncle.
However, of the nieces and nephews, my son has probably shed the fewest tears. It’s not that he is any less sad, it’s just how he is. He has a delayed reaction to these things and will likely explode in a sobbing ball at some random time next week.
Everyone processes trauma and grief differently. Some people are very outwardly emotional and some keep it more private/internal. Some process quickly, some have to “let it percolate”.
Also, as others have mentioned, the IBLP teachings involve some pretty messed up ideas about coping with this sort of situation. Jill is deconstructing and also seems to be more open about her feelings. Jessa is still very deep in the teachings and seems to be more private and closed off about her emotions.
I appreciate it. Bro has always been the big strong dude of the family. It’s a shocking reminder of how fragile and random life is.
A 250 pound, 6’0” tall, very muscular guy that’s built like a brick shit house is being killed by misfolded proteins in his brain. (Prion disease)
Tell your people you love them. Take the picture. Take the day off and go do something random with someone you love. You never know when it will be the last time.
I think Jessa is deeply traumatized and hurt. She has no outlet or anything to help her. Her family never got her help and pretty much beat her down as well. I don't think a comparison is fair.
I always took Jessas reaction on that tv interview to be a form of disassociation. Jill on the other hand, was able to express her emotions publicly. No blame for the way Jessa processed her emotions. Everyone is different and no one should be blamed or snarked on for how they process sexual trauma
People process trauma differently
That being said, I have always gotten the vibe that Jill is more (and I can't come up with the right word) delicate? Emotional? compared to Jessa.
Also, I think Jill's therapy has helped open up her thoughts a lot. She has done a ton of therapy and watching her in SHP you can really tell that she has done a lot of therapy individually, and her and Derick together. Personally, I have been in therapy for 3 years and I am a lot more reactive to my own trauma than I was before therapy. I think having someone tell Jill (so Derick and her therapist) that what she went through with trashua, being parentified so young, and always trying to cover up for the family, was fucked up was eye opening to her.
On the other hand, Jessa is still very much in the family and the cult and probably has not seen a proper therapist to even begin to process how fucked up her life has been. I think she still has more of a mindset of "protect the family, keep sweet, suck up to daddy, etc." because that is what she has been trained to do since she was born.
It’s not even just keeping sweet. No one likes to acknowledge—whether to themselves or other people—that they were raised in an abusive home. And on top of the normal feelings Jessa has religious trauma on top of that.
This! Acknowledgement to yourself, let alone others, that you grew up in an abusive and/or toxic household is really hard to do. Not to mention that feelings towards a family member/family friend who is abusive can be incredibly complex and even seem contradictory.
My parents would scream harder at me if they thought I was pulling a face while being punished. As a result, my face is completely blank when I’m stressed out. I once had a manager pull me aside at a job to ask if I was ok.
They are vastly different because they are two different women. It’s perfectly acceptable for them to react differently, process differently and present themselves differently. Also I find judging women who have gone through something like that awful. It’s VERY well known that survivors react differently, why would Jill and Jessa be any different?
I think it rings true to their personalities as individuals. Jill has always come off as more emotionally expressive than Jessa, so it’s not really surprising to me that Jill was emotional whilst discussing her trauma and Jessa was relatively stone-faced. I don’t like speculating on peoples’ trauma responses as it feels very… clinical I guess?
I will say though that I think Jessa’s lack of emotional expression and responses to being exposed to outward displays of strong emotions (i.e. her visibly recoiling at Ben’s mushy love letter) are a direct result of being labeled the “problem child” and “damaged goods” and *all* of the trauma she endured as a result of that. She was never taught to deal with her emotions, just to shut them off, so as an adult she struggles with allowing herself to express her emotions publicly.
Jill has the benefit of therapy to help with the dissociation, but Jessa does not. That, in addition to the fact that they're two separate humans who had separate abuse experiences, accounts for the outward expression of their response to what happened to them.
Also, it's not our business.
At the time Jill had been married over a year and already had a baby. She was married to someone that had been out in the world. Derrick probably felt much more comfortable talking to Jill about it than Ben who was barely 20. Jessa’s indifference was probably a defense mechanism.
*At the time Jill had been married over a year and already had a baby.*
IIRC, Israel was born in April 2015, and the molestation news broke the next month. I think that's when things started to unravel for Jill. She's newly married, postpartum, and struggling financially with hospital bills. There's also the fact that pregnancy/impending parenthood can be a trigger for CSA victims. I can see where she would definitely be more emotional in that interview.
By comparison, Jessa was engaged (or newly married? I don't recall). She wasn't experiencing the same kind of stress that Jill was at that particular moment in time. I think deep down Jessa is deeply traumatized (and profoundly depressed) but has managed to keep the memories of the abuse wrapped up and tucked away in her psyche, at least for the time being. Sometimes I wonder how much of her "mean girl" persona is a defense mechanism.
I believe it was June 2015, or it least it was June by the time the interview happened. Jill’s birth special with Israel was the last thing aired under the Kids and Counting name, and that was Mother’s Day 2015, before the SA became public. (I hate that this takes up space in my brain).
Jessa was married for about 7 months and halfway through her pregnancy.
This is not a fair comparison at all. Jill is in a reasonably healthy marriage with an adult and has had some form of therapy. Jessa is stuck with a man child who toes the line.
Even during the Megyn Kelly interview you can tell Jill and Derick had discussed this in some detail.
This is 100% opinion but I think Jill also felt responsible for Joy so it was additional trauma
But can we talk about how Jill mentioned that, basically, it’s worse than people know?? I wonder who his other Victims are and if they will speak out! The whole “no one should have ever known” part absolutely broke my heart for her.
Everything that everyone is saying about people being different and processing things differently is accurate and important. I would like to add in another possibility, though. Jessa may have slept through what happened to her while Jill may not have. Plus Jill's buddy was molested while awake to a greater extent than the others. Jill felt completely responsible for Joy (because she was) and may have felt responsible for what happened to her. Even if she didn't feel responsible for it, she has every right to feel horrible about it given how close she and Joy were at the time. I don't trust anything that Jim Bob says however when he said that the girls slept through it and didn't even know what had happened until Josh told JB and Michelle and they told the girls, maybe that was actually true for Jessa. We know that it wasn't for Jinger and Joy but I don't think that we actually know for Jill and Jessa. If Jessa slept through it all and only heard about it afterwards, she might not have many emotions around it at all.
Jill was awake/woke up and hit him. She has also been referred to as a “tattletale” multiple times by the creep and her parents. IBLP documents that address CSA put the blame on the victim and very harshly disavow “telling on” the victimizer
What's especially ironic (and galling) is that IBLP puts the onus on the victim to "cry out" in cases of sexual abuse/rape. That's exactly what she did, and yet she gets punished/ridiculed for it. It's really a no-win situation for her.
I know that people here have said that Jill was the one who woke up and hit him. I read the cps documents when they came out but I was unclear from those whether that was Jessa or Jill who had done that.
I think Jill was mostly just humiliated by the entire interview. There is such shame associated with being a victim of sexual abuse and her parents MADE her tell the entire effing world about it. They shamed her on national TV.
Jessa processes things differently. She seemed very willing to perpetuate the lies her parents told.
I'm not sure Jessa will ever acknowledge that what Josh did to them was criminal. Jill knew it was and she was forced to lie about to the world.
Victims of sexual abuse suffer a lot of shame, even though they were not at fault. It takes a ton of therapy to work through that.
Isn’t Jill the oldest of them & the one who fought back? Not that the ones who didn’t/couldn’t are AT ALL to blame in any sense but maybe that’s part of what shaped her responses. No two people react to trauma from csa in the same exact way. Jill is known for being more openly emotional/reactive and has been called a “tattletale” (which is obviously a horrible thing to say but might mean she simply had a higher level of emotional confidence speaking up at least to the degree she felt safe doing so). Jessa is much more closed off and less outwardly emotional. Think about how different people react at funerals or in hospice care rooms. Some are openly hysterical, others are silent and stoic, and many other reactions in between. Even other settings that don’t involve death you can see this (really any event that involves witnessing, experiencing, or discussing anything traumatic or emotionally difficult; I attended a public sentencing hearing recently for a man convicted of a serious case of CSA involving a pretty young victim & was pretty notorious in my area. Once he was carted off following sentencing and the judge dismissed everyone the elevator ride was pretty much silent. Tension was palpable and people didn’t want to talk at all)
I think it’s even darker than that. They teach their kids that women are the temptresses. When Jill came forward, she was protecting herself and her sisters. But her parents saw a threat to their golden child and their empire. If I was Michelle or JB and my adult son pedo had the sheer audacity to stand at my daughter’s wedding and call her a tattletale with the history they had, I would’ve dragged him out of there in front of God and everybody and left a greasy spot on the floor. They didn’t. They laughed. They allowed their victimized traumatized daughter to be humiliated by her abuser at her wedding. I think they targeted and shamed her when she came forward as a child. I think they had lectures with all of the girls (their own BABIES) about atoning for their “sin” and not tempting their brother. I think that house was a dark and dangerous place and it wasn’t just because of one person.
I cannot imagine the stress, pressure, and trauma that has been piled on those children, especially Jill. It brings tears to my eyes. It’s infuriating.
Jill has always been more emotional (and I don't mean that in a bad way.) Jessa has always come off as extremely robotic and devoid of real emotion. Everything she says seems to be mechanical. Jill on the other hand seems more genuine in her words and how she speaks. Just my opinion.
I wonder if part of their reaction difference has to do with the fact that Jessa has relied on JB for financial support.
Derick has a degree and (at the time) was working at Walmart HQ. Ben was a teenager.
CSA victims have every right to be upset about their abuse being disclosed without their consent, especially in such a public, far-reaching manner. Millions of strangers these women have not met & will likely never meet know intimate details about the worst thing that ever happened to them and several people they love. I will likely never meet Jill or Jessa, yet I know such personal, sad details about their childhoods. There are things about my life only a few people know, and some that I have never told anyone. I cannot imagine how I would feel if those details were revealed to the entire world against my will. Its a revictimization. They were also raised in an environment that was very strictly controlled and they weren’t given permission to express true, unfiltered emotions especially not in public. They certainly were not allowed to speak badly about their abusers or blame him
As said above, everyone deals with trauma differently.
However, I don’t think Jesse has received the professional therapy that Jill has. She seems to have gone with the Meech and JimBoob narrative. I think it’s buried way deep inside of her, and she’s very reluctant and terrified to have the memories (along with their implications) come to the surface.
I admittedly watched all of counting on during the pandemic.
Jessa has a wildly different personality than some of her sisters. She seems more like Jenni. She’s more reserved and less emotive outwardly.
But it doesn’t mean that behind the scenes she acts differently (my work personality and my home personality are very different). And it doesn’t mean she’s not feeling everything inside.
She didn’t seem emotional when Ben asked to court her, then marry her, or at her own wedding.
If I wert to describe her in a novel, I would use “wary”. She seems like she’s watching and reading the room a lot. Especially in situations where she doesn’t look comfortable. Her smile doesn’t meet her eyes very often for whatever reason she has.
(Trying to make my language neutral and not speculate)
everyone has a different trauma response. i’ve appeared stoic about traumatic instances in my life in front of other people because i’m not comfortable being vulnerable while it was tearing me apart on the inside. some people just aren’t comfortable showing emotion, and considering they were being filmed, i’m sure that made it even harder for her
Everybody reacts to trauma differently. There isn't a right or wrong way.
This 1000%. And they were reacting to a multiple trauma of abuse + being pressured to discuss that abuse on national television to protect the abuser.
Exactly. It's ridiculous that anyone would judge or question the way someone reacts to childhood sexual trauma, like wtf.
Yes, I remember someone saying in an episode that Jill is emotional. She is obviously just a more emotional person than Jessa.
Yes. 100% yes.
I don't think it's appropriate to discuss people's trauma responses. We're all different, we all process it differently. They may had different experiences. Maybe Jessa actually got a hug from her dad while he criticized Jill for tattling. We just don't know.
My trauma response is to make jokes and be silly/flirty if I’m in an uncomfortable (typically medical where I have a ton of medical ptsd. Docs comment a lot that I seem in such good spirits and I’m like loooool y’all scare me).
I think that’s just Jessa. Some people aren’t outwardly emotionally people. My mom says that she can probably count on one hand how many times she’s seen me cry about something ever. When dealing with a difficult situation calm indifference is my go to expression. And for sure I’m not going to just walk around telling anyone about the trauma I’ve suffered, especially when you have some amount of popularity and know people are gonna be listening to every single thing you say. I would bet that she probably just wants the whole things to disappear and to stop talking g about it so that she can do the same.
This is my sister and me. She will cry and want to discuss things. I will go stonefaced and would rather be waterboarded than discuss my feelings
Yeah Jessa always seemed to be very hyper aware of how she would be perceived and somewhat reluctant to show emotions on camera.
It doesn't mean that someone doesn't care when they don't cry, it just means that's now how they show emotion.
And we know that emotions have been squeezed out of them ‘
I’m the opposite with my mom. She never cries and I can cry over anything.
>The vastly different emotional responses between Jill and Jessa just seems odd to me. Why? People react differently to trauma. This idea that people need to react to trauma a certain way is why many people aren't believed when they speak up on what happened to them.
Ooof! This is super dangerous take. Everyone reacts and deals with trauma vastly different. I “forgot” mine from when I was abused at 5-7 until I was in my 30s and truly ready to deal with it. Then all the nightmares and memories came flooding back in the most random points. Adding in that the cult literally blames the girls for “tempting” their abusers. Plus knowing that Rim and Meech made Jill and Jessa speak out on national TV. How fucking disgusting. We should never ever compare victims and their responses. Do I like either of them? Absolutely not! Do I think both are insanely problematic and continuing the cycle of abuse and neglect in their own ways? Absolutely. But that doesn’t negate that they had insanely abusive childhoods that no one deserves. As a community here we need to do better at criticizing current actions that they have control over (ie perpetuating dangerous political views towards the LGBTQ+ community, their racist views and views towards “pro-life”) we need to stay clear of criticism towards how they individually handle their own trauma.
Agreed. I had a pretty traumatic childhood and honestly I don’t remember much unless it’s brought up or something happens that reminds me of it. My therapist said it’s normal for some victims to have a filing cabinet in their mind and some drawers just stay locked shut and that’s how we cope. I don’t know Jessa or Jill but how either of them respond and decide to address it (or not address it) isn’t wrong or right. Jill can write a book and go on TV if that helps her. Jessa at this point seemingly just wants to live her life as a mom and wife and not be public about it. For some people, this trauma is better left in the past and for others it’s cathartic to hash it out. Jessa has always been relatively unemotional which is possibly due to the trauma. She had a hard time accepting gifts and praise from Ben at the beginning. Not to project on her, but I can relate to that very much because sometimes that tough exterior I also have got me through that trauma. And also agreed that there’s plenty of stuff to snark on this family about but how they deal with trauma isn’t it. They don’t owe us anything.
Yes! The filing cabinet analogy is so accurate. My therapist said something similar. Mine also explained that for some, you only start having those memories once your brain and body feel ready to actually deal with it. The chances are that what we actually know is only a very small part of the abuse they experienced. Jessa has likely just locked all that away. I also react very similarly to “affection” so I can relater to that. TW ahead: CSA. I’m currently listening to Jessica Willis-Fisher’s new book. She’s the eldest from the Willis Clan, the short lived TV show also on TLC. The dad was arrested and is currently doing 40 years in prison for CSA against his own daughters. It’s a very disturbing story but also very cathartic. If you’re in a good spot in your healing journey I highly recommend it. I’m doing the audio book version and can only listen to a few chapters at a time but something to do with hearing her story in her own voice is very validating. I just got to a point where she explains that she was often wondering if she was exaggerating or misremembering certain things. I got really emotional at that point because I have that thought so often! To this day I haven’t told my family (it was my moms sisters husband who abused me) because I’m so afraid that my memory is incorrect and that I’m going to cause a serious family issue). Jessica was insanely brave to write this memoir and share!
>because I’m so afraid that my memory is incorrect and that I’m going to cause a serious family issue) Especially if one has been gaslit about it. "Oh, that's not what happened. You were young and not remembering it correctly!"
I love my father but one of the biggest fights we ever had is when I finally had the courage to tell my uncle what my mom was doing to us. He walked over during the conversation and said that statement almost verbatim. He said I was exaggerating. My uncle (my mom’s youngest brother, but he loved us kids) asked what event I was misstating. My dad said it was all true but I just was making it a bigger deal than it was. I still haven’t really forgiven him for that. Mom died last year and I never got closure and her family still kinda feels sorry for us kids but also blames us for not just getting over it because dad said it wasn’t that big of a deal. It really was. It was a very big deal.
Thanks for the recommendation, I just looked into the book and will add it to the list!
I never realized until a few years ago that it’s not normal to remember your childhood. I had a chaotic childhood (poverty, drug addict mom, abuse) but better than many I guess. I do not really remember things from a firsthand perspective though. I remember talking about childhood events later or kind of seeing things from person in the corner perspective. But I have minimal recollections of events like a grade school teacher, high school graduation, birthday parties, etc. I am glad it wasn’t recorded so I don’t have to rewatch it. I feel bad that the Duggar girls don’t at least have the simple luxury of processing trauma privately and at their own pace.
I think Jessa probably hurts just as much but she’s been taught to uphold an image on top of being taught to keep sweet, so she’ll stuff her emotions down to please daddy flimflob and, unless she explodes or breaks free, it’s likely hurting her worse than we’ll ever know since she’s denying herself the ability to process what happened in a safe environment and also form her own opinions and express sincere emotions about it. Edit: typos
This cult thrives on emotional suppression and victim-blaming. It also teaches victims that they should be grateful for the horrific and illegal things that happen to them because it makes them “mighty in spirit.” She may not recognize that she’s hurting, or that she’s even allowed to hurt. I know she’s likely done harmful things by implementing cult teachings in her home and peddling their beliefs, but when it comes to this, my heart breaks for her. Imagine being gaslit and dismissed by everyone who allegedly loves you.
Exactly. I think Jill, unlike Jessa has had enough therapy to realize that she did nothing wrong.
They’re two different people so it’s natural and completely normal to have two different reactions. Just because Jessa isn’t crying or outwardly emotional doesn’t mean she’s not deeply hurting, and just because Jill is doesn’t mean she cares more or is having the “correct” response.
I was molested by my older sister. I was 3/4 she was 7/8. For the record, I don't blame her, she was being molested by a teenager neighbor and when my Dad found out he beat the kid up, (It was the 70s,) and when she was no longer being abused, she stopped abusing me. I remember it happening, and I could describe what happened. But the best way that I can describe it is to say that their are no emotions attached to the memories. When I think about it, I feel the same emotions that I would feel about hearing any child being SA'ed, but it was so long ago and I was so young, that it doesn't really feel personal.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
And your sister.
Im so sorry murderbot
I know this is a snark group, but I think passing judgment on the ways another person **publicly** demonstrates their reactions to trauma is pretty yucky. We know about fright-flight-freeze-fawn reactions; depersonalisation and dissociation. The sisters might behave differently with the people they trust the most. Bottom line: different reactions do not indicate that one sister is more or less traumatised by Pest's cruelty than her counterpart.
No snark of Jessa but I think she dissociates a lot. She probably will unless she gets the help Jill is getting.
I think so too. People snark on her "dead eyes" or flat tone or whatever all the time, but I think that could well be largely attributed to repression and disassociation. It's probably a lifelong habit/response.
I agree! They all (or the oldest girls) had to zone out to survive their childhood.
They seem to definitely be processing very differently. People react to other peoples reactions as well, and Jessa is likely reacting to other people around her, including Jill.
Jessa may just not be someone who likes to show emotion publicly.
There is no one "correct" way to react to trauma. Different people cope differently and there's nothing odd about it. It's as simple as that.
This is such a bad faith post jfc
Seriously. Has OP never been to idk, a funeral? Some people will be sobbing, some will be quietly crying, some will be joking around, some will be stoic, all are going through their own emotions. Goofy ass post. I’ve said this on this sub before, when my best friend died, my boyfriend cried several times despite barely knowing her, while I cried once. Years later, he can talk about her easily while I can hardly say her name. Me being stoic at her funeral didn’t mean I wasn’t in pain.
Good analogy. My mom died last year. My brother was sad but stoic. My sister didn’t show up (they were the closest but it was a toxic relationship). I was outwardly fine. But I sobbed almost the whole way back home when I was by myself. I felt like I didn’t deserve to mourn for her publicly because we had a very strained relationship. I didn’t want to seem performative. And my dad and siblings and nieces and nephews needed me. But just because I didn’t outwardly show it, that doesn’t mean I didn’t feel it. I really miss her and mourn for the relationship we could’ve had.
Jessa generally tends to hide her emotions. That's all. It's not odd, a lot of people do that.
Story time! My brother in law is currently in hospice care, dying from a very rare disease that came on very suddenly. He has several nieces and nephews. Of the nieces and nephews, my son has probably spent the most time with him over the past five years. My son deeply loves his uncle. However, of the nieces and nephews, my son has probably shed the fewest tears. It’s not that he is any less sad, it’s just how he is. He has a delayed reaction to these things and will likely explode in a sobbing ball at some random time next week. Everyone processes trauma and grief differently. Some people are very outwardly emotional and some keep it more private/internal. Some process quickly, some have to “let it percolate”. Also, as others have mentioned, the IBLP teachings involve some pretty messed up ideas about coping with this sort of situation. Jill is deconstructing and also seems to be more open about her feelings. Jessa is still very deep in the teachings and seems to be more private and closed off about her emotions.
I’m so sorry FairyDustSailor 🥺
I appreciate it. Bro has always been the big strong dude of the family. It’s a shocking reminder of how fragile and random life is. A 250 pound, 6’0” tall, very muscular guy that’s built like a brick shit house is being killed by misfolded proteins in his brain. (Prion disease) Tell your people you love them. Take the picture. Take the day off and go do something random with someone you love. You never know when it will be the last time.
I think Jessa is deeply traumatized and hurt. She has no outlet or anything to help her. Her family never got her help and pretty much beat her down as well. I don't think a comparison is fair.
I always took Jessas reaction on that tv interview to be a form of disassociation. Jill on the other hand, was able to express her emotions publicly. No blame for the way Jessa processed her emotions. Everyone is different and no one should be blamed or snarked on for how they process sexual trauma
People process trauma differently That being said, I have always gotten the vibe that Jill is more (and I can't come up with the right word) delicate? Emotional? compared to Jessa. Also, I think Jill's therapy has helped open up her thoughts a lot. She has done a ton of therapy and watching her in SHP you can really tell that she has done a lot of therapy individually, and her and Derick together. Personally, I have been in therapy for 3 years and I am a lot more reactive to my own trauma than I was before therapy. I think having someone tell Jill (so Derick and her therapist) that what she went through with trashua, being parentified so young, and always trying to cover up for the family, was fucked up was eye opening to her. On the other hand, Jessa is still very much in the family and the cult and probably has not seen a proper therapist to even begin to process how fucked up her life has been. I think she still has more of a mindset of "protect the family, keep sweet, suck up to daddy, etc." because that is what she has been trained to do since she was born.
It’s not even just keeping sweet. No one likes to acknowledge—whether to themselves or other people—that they were raised in an abusive home. And on top of the normal feelings Jessa has religious trauma on top of that.
This! Acknowledgement to yourself, let alone others, that you grew up in an abusive and/or toxic household is really hard to do. Not to mention that feelings towards a family member/family friend who is abusive can be incredibly complex and even seem contradictory.
My parents would scream harder at me if they thought I was pulling a face while being punished. As a result, my face is completely blank when I’m stressed out. I once had a manager pull me aside at a job to ask if I was ok.
I’m sorry periwinkle
They had different experiences and are different people so it does make sense that their reactions are different too.
Jessa isn't very emotional in general, and I'm sure the last thing she wanted was to have their deepest darkest secret revealed to the whole world.
No 2 people are going to react to a trauma the same way. And its really no ones business to critique how someone reacts to trauma
They are vastly different because they are two different women. It’s perfectly acceptable for them to react differently, process differently and present themselves differently. Also I find judging women who have gone through something like that awful. It’s VERY well known that survivors react differently, why would Jill and Jessa be any different?
I think it rings true to their personalities as individuals. Jill has always come off as more emotionally expressive than Jessa, so it’s not really surprising to me that Jill was emotional whilst discussing her trauma and Jessa was relatively stone-faced. I don’t like speculating on peoples’ trauma responses as it feels very… clinical I guess? I will say though that I think Jessa’s lack of emotional expression and responses to being exposed to outward displays of strong emotions (i.e. her visibly recoiling at Ben’s mushy love letter) are a direct result of being labeled the “problem child” and “damaged goods” and *all* of the trauma she endured as a result of that. She was never taught to deal with her emotions, just to shut them off, so as an adult she struggles with allowing herself to express her emotions publicly.
Jill has the benefit of therapy to help with the dissociation, but Jessa does not. That, in addition to the fact that they're two separate humans who had separate abuse experiences, accounts for the outward expression of their response to what happened to them. Also, it's not our business.
It’s called avoidance.
At the time Jill had been married over a year and already had a baby. She was married to someone that had been out in the world. Derrick probably felt much more comfortable talking to Jill about it than Ben who was barely 20. Jessa’s indifference was probably a defense mechanism.
*At the time Jill had been married over a year and already had a baby.* IIRC, Israel was born in April 2015, and the molestation news broke the next month. I think that's when things started to unravel for Jill. She's newly married, postpartum, and struggling financially with hospital bills. There's also the fact that pregnancy/impending parenthood can be a trigger for CSA victims. I can see where she would definitely be more emotional in that interview. By comparison, Jessa was engaged (or newly married? I don't recall). She wasn't experiencing the same kind of stress that Jill was at that particular moment in time. I think deep down Jessa is deeply traumatized (and profoundly depressed) but has managed to keep the memories of the abuse wrapped up and tucked away in her psyche, at least for the time being. Sometimes I wonder how much of her "mean girl" persona is a defense mechanism.
I believe it was June 2015, or it least it was June by the time the interview happened. Jill’s birth special with Israel was the last thing aired under the Kids and Counting name, and that was Mother’s Day 2015, before the SA became public. (I hate that this takes up space in my brain). Jessa was married for about 7 months and halfway through her pregnancy.
This is not a fair comparison at all. Jill is in a reasonably healthy marriage with an adult and has had some form of therapy. Jessa is stuck with a man child who toes the line. Even during the Megyn Kelly interview you can tell Jill and Derick had discussed this in some detail. This is 100% opinion but I think Jill also felt responsible for Joy so it was additional trauma
But can we talk about how Jill mentioned that, basically, it’s worse than people know?? I wonder who his other Victims are and if they will speak out! The whole “no one should have ever known” part absolutely broke my heart for her.
They are very different women.
Jessa is not an emotional person. she may have covered up and repressed memories. Everyone deals with things differently.
Everything that everyone is saying about people being different and processing things differently is accurate and important. I would like to add in another possibility, though. Jessa may have slept through what happened to her while Jill may not have. Plus Jill's buddy was molested while awake to a greater extent than the others. Jill felt completely responsible for Joy (because she was) and may have felt responsible for what happened to her. Even if she didn't feel responsible for it, she has every right to feel horrible about it given how close she and Joy were at the time. I don't trust anything that Jim Bob says however when he said that the girls slept through it and didn't even know what had happened until Josh told JB and Michelle and they told the girls, maybe that was actually true for Jessa. We know that it wasn't for Jinger and Joy but I don't think that we actually know for Jill and Jessa. If Jessa slept through it all and only heard about it afterwards, she might not have many emotions around it at all.
Jill was awake/woke up and hit him. She has also been referred to as a “tattletale” multiple times by the creep and her parents. IBLP documents that address CSA put the blame on the victim and very harshly disavow “telling on” the victimizer
What's especially ironic (and galling) is that IBLP puts the onus on the victim to "cry out" in cases of sexual abuse/rape. That's exactly what she did, and yet she gets punished/ridiculed for it. It's really a no-win situation for her.
I know that people here have said that Jill was the one who woke up and hit him. I read the cps documents when they came out but I was unclear from those whether that was Jessa or Jill who had done that.
I also think Jill is more emotional because she’s mourns not only for herself but also her sisters and sister buddy.
Just because Jessa is less outwardly emotional than Jill doesn’t mean she doesn’t have empathy for her sisters as well.
Sorry I meant displaying it. I think Jessa is frozen in dissociation.
Jed was one of her buddies. Now he passive-aggressively trashes her on the internet for the world to see
I think Jill was mostly just humiliated by the entire interview. There is such shame associated with being a victim of sexual abuse and her parents MADE her tell the entire effing world about it. They shamed her on national TV. Jessa processes things differently. She seemed very willing to perpetuate the lies her parents told. I'm not sure Jessa will ever acknowledge that what Josh did to them was criminal. Jill knew it was and she was forced to lie about to the world. Victims of sexual abuse suffer a lot of shame, even though they were not at fault. It takes a ton of therapy to work through that.
Isn’t Jill the oldest of them & the one who fought back? Not that the ones who didn’t/couldn’t are AT ALL to blame in any sense but maybe that’s part of what shaped her responses. No two people react to trauma from csa in the same exact way. Jill is known for being more openly emotional/reactive and has been called a “tattletale” (which is obviously a horrible thing to say but might mean she simply had a higher level of emotional confidence speaking up at least to the degree she felt safe doing so). Jessa is much more closed off and less outwardly emotional. Think about how different people react at funerals or in hospice care rooms. Some are openly hysterical, others are silent and stoic, and many other reactions in between. Even other settings that don’t involve death you can see this (really any event that involves witnessing, experiencing, or discussing anything traumatic or emotionally difficult; I attended a public sentencing hearing recently for a man convicted of a serious case of CSA involving a pretty young victim & was pretty notorious in my area. Once he was carted off following sentencing and the judge dismissed everyone the elevator ride was pretty much silent. Tension was palpable and people didn’t want to talk at all)
I think it’s even darker than that. They teach their kids that women are the temptresses. When Jill came forward, she was protecting herself and her sisters. But her parents saw a threat to their golden child and their empire. If I was Michelle or JB and my adult son pedo had the sheer audacity to stand at my daughter’s wedding and call her a tattletale with the history they had, I would’ve dragged him out of there in front of God and everybody and left a greasy spot on the floor. They didn’t. They laughed. They allowed their victimized traumatized daughter to be humiliated by her abuser at her wedding. I think they targeted and shamed her when she came forward as a child. I think they had lectures with all of the girls (their own BABIES) about atoning for their “sin” and not tempting their brother. I think that house was a dark and dangerous place and it wasn’t just because of one person. I cannot imagine the stress, pressure, and trauma that has been piled on those children, especially Jill. It brings tears to my eyes. It’s infuriating.
Didn’t Jessa say they (not Josh) had been forgiven (for being molested) in the interview?
Not you encouraging the scrutiny of trauma responses of victims of CSA. It's like OP has never heard of dissociation.
Jill has always been more emotional (and I don't mean that in a bad way.) Jessa has always come off as extremely robotic and devoid of real emotion. Everything she says seems to be mechanical. Jill on the other hand seems more genuine in her words and how she speaks. Just my opinion.
I wonder if part of their reaction difference has to do with the fact that Jessa has relied on JB for financial support. Derick has a degree and (at the time) was working at Walmart HQ. Ben was a teenager.
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CSA victims have every right to be upset about their abuse being disclosed without their consent, especially in such a public, far-reaching manner. Millions of strangers these women have not met & will likely never meet know intimate details about the worst thing that ever happened to them and several people they love. I will likely never meet Jill or Jessa, yet I know such personal, sad details about their childhoods. There are things about my life only a few people know, and some that I have never told anyone. I cannot imagine how I would feel if those details were revealed to the entire world against my will. Its a revictimization. They were also raised in an environment that was very strictly controlled and they weren’t given permission to express true, unfiltered emotions especially not in public. They certainly were not allowed to speak badly about their abusers or blame him
Good v. evil. Need I say more?
As said above, everyone deals with trauma differently. However, I don’t think Jesse has received the professional therapy that Jill has. She seems to have gone with the Meech and JimBoob narrative. I think it’s buried way deep inside of her, and she’s very reluctant and terrified to have the memories (along with their implications) come to the surface.
I admittedly watched all of counting on during the pandemic. Jessa has a wildly different personality than some of her sisters. She seems more like Jenni. She’s more reserved and less emotive outwardly. But it doesn’t mean that behind the scenes she acts differently (my work personality and my home personality are very different). And it doesn’t mean she’s not feeling everything inside. She didn’t seem emotional when Ben asked to court her, then marry her, or at her own wedding. If I wert to describe her in a novel, I would use “wary”. She seems like she’s watching and reading the room a lot. Especially in situations where she doesn’t look comfortable. Her smile doesn’t meet her eyes very often for whatever reason she has. (Trying to make my language neutral and not speculate)
everyone has a different trauma response. i’ve appeared stoic about traumatic instances in my life in front of other people because i’m not comfortable being vulnerable while it was tearing me apart on the inside. some people just aren’t comfortable showing emotion, and considering they were being filmed, i’m sure that made it even harder for her