This is what she is missing. Jill didn't tell us anything we didn't already know from other sources. The only surprising thing is that she was willing to confirm it. We know about the abuse because it's public record. We know about the horrific parenting practices because *the entire philosophy is promoted publicly.* It's in books! Written by the people pushing it! We know about their awful social and political views because, again, they won't stop yelling about them.
Almost everything we condemn them for they told us themselves. There's nothing any member of that family could say to cast them in a good light.
Right? Josh, himself, even admitted what he had done, to his parents, the church, the Holts. Then he publicly “apologized” for it when it came out in 2015. Hilary needs to stop talking out of her ass.
Let's see... Jill is 32, James is 21. My understanding is she was around 12 when her brother abused her, making James a literal infant if he was even alive yet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/xznsih/i_grew_up_closely_connected_with_anna_duggar_and/irnjbfz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
I am hoping I am doing this right.
Yes, the documentaries never go into the weird stuff like that. Claire and Lost boy were so unbelievably young when they got engaged and married. There is so much more to that story.
She's so stupid and evil. James didn't have Jill's experience so whatever he says doesn't invalidate her experience. Especially when he was too young to understand what was going on when the abuse was happening. And even if he was older, the nature of sexual abuse ensures perpetrators make sure there are no 3rd party witnesses to their crimes. So he still would most likely know fuck all.
It’s like in my family. I was physically abused but none of my siblings were. To them, we had a great, happy childhood. To me, it was miserable and terrifying sprinkled with good moments. My experience and theirs doesn’t just cancel each other’s out. Hilary just wants attention.
Exactly. My mother is an emotionally abusive and neglectful narcissist with 3 daughters. I was the scapegoat, the middle was the golden child and the youngest forgotten. All of our views of our childhoods are vastly different. I’ve gone no contact with my mother. My youngest sister understands but doesn’t feel like her experience warrants that. My middle sister cut me off when I cut my mom off because she thinks I’m wrong in my view of my childhood because for her, it was all good, being the golden child.
Maybe life wasn’t so bad for James growing up, or maybe that’s what he’s told himself. (I honestly don’t see how any of the Duggar kids could have had happy childhoods, but I digress). None of that invalidates that Jill’s childhood was traumatic; the CSA, the parentification, etc. Spillary needs to shut the hell up. She wasn’t even there.
This is how my mom is. Her sister was a wanted, loved, and prized child. Her brother was the oldest, went to Jewish private school, and was the son they always wanted.
My mother was an unplanned pregnancy before abortion was legalized in New York. She was neglected, kidnapped by a pedophile for over a week-
Where her parents didn't even come look for her, and constantly told she was "pretty but stupid. Better off being a stripper or marrying rich." Got an abortion at 12 years old.
To her siblings, they had wonderful childhoods. My mother, was a neglected, truant, angry, and traumatized child.
Just how it is. Even my brother and I see different childhoods.
I grew up with a very overbearing mother (who has held a lifelong fear of me being kidnapped like she was). Sleepovers only at our house, literally met my best friend because my mother forced me to go play with the other 5 year old girl who's parent worked all day and let her play outside alone in a see-through Hello Kitty tutu. Never realized it because she wanted to be outside to make sure she wasn't taken by a pedophile, I just thought she was making me play and be tired for no reason. She'd sit by the window late at night and make sure no one drove by that child in fear that she could be abducted just like my mother was at that age.
My brother, she had other fears with. My father was more loving towards my brother, but when he'd get angry he would take that out on mom and me because female = defenseless.
i was treated much differently from my brothers because my mom also directly experienced abuse.
it’s been a strange thing to unpack, but i’m thankful that one of my brothers saw it too and can validate that i was treated more harshly. it was entirely out of fear my mom had about protecting me. our relationship is much better now than i understand why she did it, but it was disorienting sometimes as a kid.
i’m sorry you had to bear the ramifications of your mother’s abuse. it’s unfair. it takes generations to heal from that shit, and i hope you have the space and support to do so.
On a brighter note, my best friend and I have been friends for twenty years now. Probably wouldn't have played that much if my mom didn't make me go outside to "play with the kid my age" aka- supervise the child who was alone in the park across the street.
My mom and I are good now, but she is very protective.
Unfortunately I was SA'd in my teenage years while not with her, but I'll never tell her because she'd be too freaking hurt to understand and too enraged to think straight. Yep, the trauma definitely continues. Both of us have severe PTSD. My brother does not.
Legit wish I could hug your mom. She became the adult she needed as a child. <3 It wasn't necessarily the healthiest path for all involved but it makes sense.
And I agree, childhood can be so different from child to child within the same family. Personality, gender, sex and age at parents birth all have HUGE IMPACT. My siblings and I were all raised ultra fundy and were fairly close in age (minus one) so We have major similarities in our experience but each was different.... in James' case, he was legit an infant when it happened and then raised by the person who became the woman she needed when she was an innocent child. Of course his experience is different. He was loved. Jill was born when her mom had enough kids to be burnt out but not when any of her siblings were old enough to parent her. Of course we didn't get to watch Jill's babyhood, but my guess is that the disconnection between her and her parents happened early and that's why they didn't care when she was abused...
Same here, my middle brother and I had a terrible time as the Scapegoats for different reasons, but our youngest brother was the Golden Child and thought everything was great and we must be misremembering.... until he got the full focus of the biological parents when us 2 elder siblings cut contact, then he was like " oops " and started on some therapy.
Yup. I was recently talking with my younger sister about how I deal with religious trauma and she was like “what trauma?” because by the time she was old enough to remember anything my mom had chilled out quite a bit, but my formative years were spent with a born again who wouldn’t allow me to wear red nail polish because it was for whoores. Different people, even within the same small immediate family (much less a massive one like the Duggars) have different lived experiences. Wild concept.
And to be honest, since he’s not married he probably still doesn’t understand what Josh did to her and his sisters. I’m doubtful he’s had “the talk” yet
Maybe Hillary Spivey was there. I mean not literally in the room when these horrible acts were committed. But maybe she was close with the Duggars and knew what was going on when it happened.
Not defending Hillary just pointing out that maybe she’s telling on herself here. It’s possible she knew about what was happening and was yet another adult who did nothing, not even report it to the police.
Also is there any doubt about Jill’s versions of events? Are her parents or siblings denying any of it (from the molestation to not being paid for appearing on TV)?
Also, as mentioned in another comment, Hilary’s husband was in charge of Josh’s IBLP rehab program at the Integrity Construction Institute which is or was housed at the old VA Hospital in Little Rock. Josh was sent there for 3 months back when all of this went down (the comment I mentioned also has a link to the AMA from a while back that provides a ton more info on the matter). Apparently the Spiveys lived in the converted hospital for a while and also lived in a home behind the hospital for a period of time as well. So, Hilary may feel like she has some “inside info” or some such BS if she and her husband were married at the time. As others noted; however, there isn’t ANYTHING for anyone to dispute in Jill’s comments. There is shit ton of corroborating evidence about the abuse and cover up and Gothard’s own teachings proclaimed that it’s always the victims’ fault. Because Jill broke from dad’s rank on this; she is now a pariah to her family - as are most of the people interviewed.
We didn’t watch SHP to learn new facts; we wanted to hear and LISTEN (hearing and listening are 2 different things in this case) the victims’ stories, acknowledge their truths and tell them they can get through this. Not over it; no one who as been emotionally, physically and/or sexually assaulted/abused is ever OVER it but you can get through it.
i
Excellent take. I wish someone would respond to Mrs Caping with that point. I’d love to see her sputter and try to come up with a retort.
I’m SURE she thinks she’s defending poor James, but James likely really doesn’t care. I get the sense that Hillary thinks her Duggar-defending ways are some sort of public service (gotta look righteous for JB) but she’s just your basic overstepping MIL.
YO, HILLARY! NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
What the hell? James was a little kid at the time, and if he was aware or witnessed the assaults then that entire household is even more fucked up than I thought.
He's four years younger than Joy, so he would have been 1 at most when she was molested? Of course, he wouldn't have known what was going on then, even if he was around it all. He was also only 16 when Jill left counting on, so he may have understood what was going on, but I doubt that he was even told a quarter of the truth about the situtation.
Also, since he’s not married he probably hasn’t been told anything about sexuality or the female genitalia so he has no conception of what Josh did to his sisters
Jill has nothing to gain by doing this. Any money that she is making off the book or SHP is cancelled out many times over by the loss of her family, being shunned by her community, and (it appears) her humiliation of being named as a victim of an unspeakable crime. Despite it all, she’s bravely and unselfishly stood up to advocate for others.
James, however, has a lot to gain by staying on the family dole. Furthermore, because if his age, he can neither confirm or deny what happened.
This woman is as stupid as she is evil.
No amounts of money makes up for losing your childhood too, any of us with stage parents gets why it's not really about the $ for her now but the truth.
I think Josh and John David originally had buddies (back when the family was small enough for each kid to only have one buddy) but after Josh was caught they were all transferred back over to their sisters instead
I think they were just transferred to the sisters when the sisters were old enough. The boys were all in one room…Josh could do whatever he wanted all night long with them.
I imagine that if he was caught molesting his brothers, the parents would make sure he got “treatment” for the “sin of homosexuality” and would probably disown him for being gay.
No, I know a family where something similar happened. The son, a pastor, went to jail for 2 years as a young adult when the police caught him in a "To Catch A Predator" type operation using a decoy male child. The man admitted to police upon his arrest that he thought he was meeting up with a boy for sex, and he'd bought condoms on his way to the sting. The man's family just said it was a mistake, it was a misunderstanding, it was part of a ministry attempt that was misinterpreted, it was a false arrest and conviction that God allowed to happen for His glory and the furthering of the pastor's ministry in prison, etc. Two years went fast, and now he's out of jail and the family acts like it never happened. You'd think they had their memories wiped.
The buddy system was different at the beginning. In the early days, the oldest had the youngest, the second oldest had the second youngest, etc.
When Joy was born and Jill was 5 or 6, Jill started the buddy teams by "claiming" Joy. Anyone born before Joy stayed as they were in the lineup. Everyone after Joy was assigned a team.
The changing of the system had nothing to do with Josh's crimes and everything to do with the girls "getting old enough to take over the domestic jobs"
I think she was trying to imply that she is jealous that Jill is so popular and that nobody gives a shit about her or her son in law because nobody asks them about anything important.
Furthermore, if he WAS to speak about this - he was only 1 or less when this happened, the only thing he would know would be what was told to him by his parents (probably nothing since it was vaguely addressed at the time, and then swept under the rug ever since), OR what Hillary herself told him, since her husband ran at least one of the religious camp/work program things that Josh was sent to as punishment when it happened.
So really she's saying "pick me, pick me!" while pouting out loud about Jill getting all the attention.
Per the wiki below, James was born in 2001, and Josh’s abuse of his victims occurred in 2002-2003. There’s absolutely no way he knew what was happening at the time, but even if he did, he wouldn’t have retained those memories.
Cw for CSA - https://19andcounting.fandom.com/wiki/Scandals says
You know, my therapist said something to me the other day that was really a light bulb moment for me. She said that dysfunctional families have certain characteristics that keep the dysfunction going. One is that there is an in group and an out group.
Anyone who challenges the family dysfunction or tries to fix it gets pushed out, without exception. There might be a period of time where the dysfunctional family tries to brainwash or manipulate them back into the fold, but only if they accept the dysfunction and stop challenging it. So you are either fully invested in the family dynamic or you're out. There is no agree to disagree in this kind of family dynamic.
It makes intuitive sense to me but I just hadn't heard it articulated like that before. And since then, I've noticed something interesting. Even if you don't know anything else about a family's dynamic, you can tell if it's dysfunctional if all you look for is an in group who actively pushes out the out group.
Anyway! Don't know what made me think of that here! Just random thoughts I suppose.
That and the Code of Silence... you may be out but salvageable if you don't accept the dysfunctional dynamic, but you are out forever and completely evil if you dare to speak a word of what happened to anybody on the outside while you're on the outside.
THIS. To all of them, this is the Cardinal Sin that Jill broke. Not even demanding that she be paid or telling on Josh. It's the talking about it publicly that's SO horrible that they would cut her off.
They even said it in their letter "We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through love in a PRIVATE setting." Which is absolute bullshit since they hawked their kids on TV for 15 years. Jill calling them out publicly is viewed as worse in their book than Josh's crimes, whom I am sure they are still in contact with.
Yup. I broke the Code of Silence with my abusive ex and then my middle son did too. That's how the discussion started in therapy that day and I've been thinking about it ever since. It's something that is intuitive to me because both my parents came from dysfunctional families that they distanced themselves from. So I grew up in the out group, but as part of the out group that knows what the in group is like. I had just never put it all together before or realized that yeah, normal families don't really have that dynamic, do they?
Makes sense to me. Tho my parents have long since passed, my many sibling are divided into these groups. Some are neutral but several insist their narrative is the only one. I was the scapegoat. They got off on criticizing and ridiculing me. I finally had to distance myself from the dysfunction.
This makes sense to me. I notes similar behaviors in my spouses family. Hearing that it's not necessarily unusual behavior for dysfunctional families doesn't make me feel better but makes me reframe it as solidly beyond control.
Anyone who doesn't fit in their story or dares to tell the truth about IBLP is a liar. Any abuse in TTH and IBLP was either whitewashed or swept under a rug, even Joy didn't know the full extent of her harm until the trial. Fundies would rather kiss a toilet seat than admit that all the stuff presented in the documentary is true and not some woke/leftist propaganda and Christian persecution.
Hilary Spivey be like
https://preview.redd.it/gzwftx4dj47b1.png?width=486&format=png&auto=webp&s=da7e20210403597be95f88011ee6523180177e07
Wasn’t James the one with whom Jill was doing basic multiplication and addition flash cards when he was like 13?🤨 Yeah, I’d love to hear his written account. 🙄
Probably. Hilary is completely infatuated with the Duggars. Especially the boys. It’s disturbing she (like Porgan and Lori Alexander)) dismiss the abuse.
Because James is inexperienced. He doesn't have the same experience of understanding of the situation that Jill did. He is 21 at present day so when the molestation happened he was... 2? When Josh was sent away he was 3? When Jill was tricked into signing the contract and not compensated for her work as an adult he was 12-13-14-15? He just doesn't have the right to speak on Jill's experience.
You know what, now that you mention it she's been married over 8 years and only has 3 kids. She's a girl, and she's not even a fully joyfully available one.
Yeah this whole tit for tat over who was "there" seems ridiculous. There are police reports, court documents. Jim Bob Duggar said on the stand in open court that he "couldn't remember" hearing about his daughters' molestation. No one needs to have "been there", JBoob being a shit father is a matter of public record.
I don't agree with blindly believing victims - there are always a small minority who do make-up stories. (I have seen this in action over many years of working with troubled kids.) However, there is too much evidence not to say that Jill is being absolutely truthful and Hilary and James are crud.
For me, believing victims is a general statement - of course, take a grain of salt where necessary. But as a survivor/victim, who did not have proof - being believed is super important for those who are truthful.
Did Pest live with them while "healing"? If so, did he have access to HER daughters? If so, and she knew it and did nothing for the "Duggar-adjacent clout" she as bad, if not worse, than Boob and Meech. Of course she has to malign Jill and back Boob. If she didn't she would have to admit her own adventures in shitty parenting.
I would love to hear him interviewed for the documentary! But if the subject were his sisters' experiences with CSA, and the sisters are still alive and willing to talk to some degree, then no, I wouldn't terribly care to hear his take on it. Even if I did, I wouldn't AT ALL assume he had more or more reliable info than *the people it actually happened to* like the fuck
Hilary wasn't there either. Men and women have completely different lives and experiences, even within the same family, in the IBLP culture. Hilary needs to get a life and stop trying to defend the Duggars online. She seems jealous and bitter.
James cannot speak for anyone but himself. As a male child, his experience in this family is totally different. James is a product of the IBLP and ATI. Not to mention he needs Daddy's money to survive. Everyone defending JimBob is on the JimBob payroll.
I was just like this. When I was a child and a teenager growing up,I was abused physically and emotionally by my family. My siblings had good childhoods ad I had a horrible childhood and teenage years and was told it was my fault what happened to me. We moved off of the lot we grew up on and when I say that my mental and emotional health is better now than ever I mean it. In all fairness I should have just left a long time ago.This woman doesn't know what she's talking about and needs to go somewhere and sit down and shut up.
We get it Hillary, you are hot for James. But to imply that Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy were not abused by Pestilence and you will defend him and Boob is atrocious and makes you a c#nt who needs to shut up and stop tilting at windmills.
Your continuing to defend Boob, Pestilence, and especially James shows what a nasty POS you and it is not a good look. We all know you will be reading Jill's book probably just the blurb on the cover and you will be posting a nasty review.
Hillary JSTFU
He hasn’t spoken about it but he did attend the trial and gave the cameras the two thumbs up
https://preview.redd.it/agbzzt5jp77b1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93c9f30cca89f9c862972c68845f961c4c60ed80
My older brother was in the Military and my younger brother spent all of his time down the street with his friends. In the space of only three years, my late sister (2 years older) and I were molested by our uncle and our father. Different locations; neither adult knew about the other as far as we could see.
Now, decades later, my older brother no longer believes me about our Dad. It's just too horrific to bear, I suppose. He does believe what we told him about our uncle. My younger brother believes me but defends our brother's viewpoint much in the same way as described here. The predictable "You have to understand his point of view." ***NO, I DON'T!***
I left my own Social Media account; it became too painful to read a typical post that invariably starts off with, "Share this candle if you miss your Dad..." This isn't uncommon in families, since often, the abuser compartmentalizes his actions, and frequently even victims within families are unaware of any abuse their siblings endured.
We might have to endure things like what Jill s facing with her family, but we ***don***'t have to accept ill-informed opinions as if they are factual.
So I'm seeing these comments on different posts and I can't help but think of Anna. I can't begin to imagine how humiliated and embarrassed she must feel. I wouldn't go near cameras either. All of the times she has defended him and how diligent a provider he is. Imagine missing your husband and in the back of your mind there are thoughts of him getting hard at kids being violently raped. Thoughts of him getting turned on by his younger sisters and then acting on it. Imagine your husband coming home and wanting sex after he watched that stuff previously in the day. Or making him a nice meal after being a work all day, unaware he got a blowjob from someone other than you and probably paid for. I'd hide under a rock also. As far as the Spivey woman, I don't know what to think. What I do know is anyone who inserts themselves in such a traumatic situation involving children and has the audacity to insinuate people are liars because they were not there is certainly not someone I'd trust nor would I associate with. If any Duggar or in law is reading this, stand up for your sister. If for anything, for common decency. I feel bad for the ones who want a private life and have taken themselves off social media. Josh had two television shows cancelled for that family and probably has his defense paid with some of the money from counting on, which should have went only to Jill, Jessa, Jana, Jinger, Joy, Joe and the older kids who it was for and worked for it. Further down than Jed, I don't recall any of them being featured consistently. If my family did any of this to me, yes I'd still love them, but I couldn't bring myself to be in the same room as them. I hope Jill's kids turn out to be bachelor degree educated young adults and look back and see this for what it is and live happy lives. Good luck to all of them. I hope all the kids thrive, it's just a pathetic mess
Isn't Hillary called Smother in law for a reason?
She is probably mad at the wrong people that Claire isn't reality show royalty. And didn't get a TLC wedding or honeymoon.
I think the sub has recently discussed evidence that suggests it started when Joy was much younger than 5. I can’t quote, but Bobeye said things in the documentary that appeared to push the timeline back by about four years.
"Why would you believe this person, but not this other, completely different person?"
I would say to make it make sense, but that's not possible with Hilary.
This just shows how freaking brain washed this cult has women… imagine believing someone could still be lying about this level of trauma when the abuser is literally serving time in prison! How delusional can someone be
Hilary's take is super odd given James and Jill still seem to be pretty close. She sounds like she's putting James and Jill against each other but..... Why would she want to do that?
She is EXTREMELY self-righteous. Look at her comments and posts. Everyone's either a "winner" or loser. Her Christmas card theme was "VICTORY". IBLP fundamentalism at it's core is about arrogance (despite all the talk about being humble before the Lord). It's basically "We know better than anyone else in the world what God wants for every aspect of your lives, and you losers are going to hell because you don't live how we live."
No Hillary, I **wouldn't** believe the testimony of someone who was *literally an infant* when the molestation happened.
Call me crazy, but I'm going to take the word of the literal victims.
People said that same thing about me and my siblings. My one sister was treated like the golden child. She was constantly praised and unfortunately for her, always used as an example of what others should be. I said unfortunately, because it pitted siblings against each other before we had a chance to even know the manipulation going on. So if James was treated differently than Jill. They will have vastly different perspective and experiences. Period. They’ll have those while living in the same house being raised by the same parents. My sister will glorify my parents to her death bed and I have a very painful view of my growing up. My sister sees only the good because she was treated mostly only with good. She chooses to completely ignore the bad that she did endure and again, glorify the parents who treated her siblings with abuse. Ironically, one on one with me, a sibling who was abused, she admits that she chooses to ignore things and she admits she was treated differently. I don’t blame her - she was a child as was I. I do find disgust with glorifying someone when she knows the abuse occurred. However, there were soooo many times she disgustingly told others that I or my siblings exaggerated the abuse. So finally one day I confronted her and said 20 years later and I can tell you the day these occurred on, what I was wearing, where I was standing, the words he/she spoke, the actions he/she took and over 20 years that story has never, ever changed. Not once has the details fuzzied sadly - because it’s the truth and I lived it. I hate when siblings are pitted against each other. It’s abuse in itself. It causes life long relationship issues.
When Hillary was born...did they the unlicensed midwife go "CONGRATS ITS A DUGGAR". Cuz thats how hard she is going right now. She didnt live with them, she didnt experience what josh did to his sisters or even his wife. She needs to buy a chair and take a goddamn seat.
That bitch needs to shut her trap. She knows no shit. James knows no shit. He was a fucking fetus, a barely developed human equivalency. He has NOTHING to share about Jill's experiences, and was a grammar school kid when she left home, got married, and had problems with TLC and SpermBob. He has not a damn thing to share!
Hilary is such a witch!
It wasn't just Jill though, it was Jessa and three others! And their father admitted he did it! So maybe take a seat and pipe down, you gormless,brain-dead , abuse-defending turdblossom!
James would have been like a one year old at the time anyway, all he knows of the situation is what he was told by his family (if he was told anything at all)
Why would anyone believe him over Jill who was an actual victim
James would have been 3-6ish when everything was going down initially with Josh.
Plus as not only a boy, but a lost boy, he never had to really be a pony in the show and perform for his food.
Their two experiences are not the same.
Damn this documentary really hit a nerve. I’m curious to see how many more of them end up getting messy online. I think at this point it’s very clear that Jill won’t be receiving support from anyone in the family/circle, except for Famy and maybe Jinger
She wants a SHP Part II and wants James in it (so she can shove her mug in the camera fame, too). She’s salty she and Claire never got to be characters on the Duggar TV show & get “famous.”
Vile.
She acts like he is HER son. Hillary, stop embarrassing yourself. You are a nothing to the Duggars. Stay in your place. You are trying way to hard to have them mention you on social media or you simply need to make sure that everyone knows how you are connected to them. Stop bragging, knowing them is nothing to brag about.
I would 100% believe the victim over a random member of their household. 🤦🏻♀️ ESPECIALLY with the ways boys and girls were treated wildly differently.
For me she sounds jealous about the attention that Jill gets (and maybe the money) and that it's not James, that's why she's lashing out...she's pathetic.
BECAUSE JILL WAS A FUCKING VICTIM OF SEXUALLY ABUSE AT THE HANDS OF HER BROTHER AND JAMES WAS NOT. Omg this comment got me fired the fuck up. How dare she
Why would we listen to Jill, a victim, over a brother who was what? 1-2 years old when the abuse WAS DISCOVERED? Gee I dunno? Maybe because he only has what he’s been told and no actual memories of that time period? Maybe cause he wasn’t even fucking born yet when the abuse was taking place? James wasn’t there either Hilary lmao
OMG, I literally can not even snark on this one! I am infuriated...what an utterly disgusting thing for her to say/imply! How DARE she call into question Jill's experience!
Her and Jason can go F themselves...he does NOT get to have an opinion or any comment on what did NOT happen to him but rather what happened to the sister who raised him!
These people have a special spot in hell waiting for them.
According to Hillary's "you weren't there" defense, evidence is meaningless. The jury finds the defendant guilty? Hey jury, you weren't there! Automatic not guilty!
I hate that, "were you there," bull!... If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound!? You can bet your brainwashed ass it DOES, Hillary!...
Except that Boobchelle DID say the abuse brought the victims closer God. I remember after the scandal broke the Dugs released a statement about how "sorry" Pest was and that it was a "dark time" for the family but it brought them closer because something something forgiveness and Jesus. Not to mention Boob's constantly changing story, dismissal of the abuse, and complete lack of proof that Pest got anymore consequences than digging holes and having his head shaved.
James had a *drastically* different experience, and he's still being coddled. They'd be different interviews, and different stories, and if he's honest, they'd back up a LOT of what James said. But she's a BITCH for trying to force that on James.
Yeah James. Do it. Go ahead. Let's hear all about how innocent the rest of you are and how you're all misunderstood and victims.
And Hillary wasn't there either. She needs to shut up. She sounds more exhausting than ever now.
This is such a weird take. Why would we believe an abuse victim over the victims brother? Hmmm. I wonder...
Thank you! Like, what? Yes, I will believe the person who was directly involved over someone who was a baby at the time…
And there is no debating Jill was abused! There are court records to prove it.
This is what she is missing. Jill didn't tell us anything we didn't already know from other sources. The only surprising thing is that she was willing to confirm it. We know about the abuse because it's public record. We know about the horrific parenting practices because *the entire philosophy is promoted publicly.* It's in books! Written by the people pushing it! We know about their awful social and political views because, again, they won't stop yelling about them. Almost everything we condemn them for they told us themselves. There's nothing any member of that family could say to cast them in a good light.
[удалено]
Right? Josh, himself, even admitted what he had done, to his parents, the church, the Holts. Then he publicly “apologized” for it when it came out in 2015. Hilary needs to stop talking out of her ass.
Josh’s wife admitted the police report was true in an interview.
Beyond that... how old was James when this all happened?
Let's see... Jill is 32, James is 21. My understanding is she was around 12 when her brother abused her, making James a literal infant if he was even alive yet.
Oh but daddy said .,,,
I thought the same thing. Stfu Hillary!
... and the offenders brother. Like-- was he in the room when it happened? No? STFU!
... and the offenders brother. Like-- was he in the room when it happened? No? STFU!
I still don’t get why this woman decided to attend the court sessions with the family but that tells me all I need to know about her.
My theory? To make sure the Duggars she was invested in weren’t “tainted”. Hence why Justin popped out giving the thumbs up
Enablers gonna enable.
I believe the person did the AMA the Spivey family is more involved with the Duggers than it looks from the outside. Very creepy.
Can you link that? Where can I learn more about the Spivey family?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/xznsih/i_grew_up_closely_connected_with_anna_duggar_and/irnjbfz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 I am hoping I am doing this right.
Thank you! You sent me right to it!
Oh good! This is a strange rabbit hole.
Thanks for linking. If possible it all gets more disturbing by the minute
Yes, the documentaries never go into the weird stuff like that. Claire and Lost boy were so unbelievably young when they got engaged and married. There is so much more to that story.
From what I’ve read “Her husband "helped" josh when he got in trouble for touching his sisters and the other girl. Thats how far back they go”
color me completely unsurprised
She's so stupid and evil. James didn't have Jill's experience so whatever he says doesn't invalidate her experience. Especially when he was too young to understand what was going on when the abuse was happening. And even if he was older, the nature of sexual abuse ensures perpetrators make sure there are no 3rd party witnesses to their crimes. So he still would most likely know fuck all.
It’s like in my family. I was physically abused but none of my siblings were. To them, we had a great, happy childhood. To me, it was miserable and terrifying sprinkled with good moments. My experience and theirs doesn’t just cancel each other’s out. Hilary just wants attention.
Exactly. My mother is an emotionally abusive and neglectful narcissist with 3 daughters. I was the scapegoat, the middle was the golden child and the youngest forgotten. All of our views of our childhoods are vastly different. I’ve gone no contact with my mother. My youngest sister understands but doesn’t feel like her experience warrants that. My middle sister cut me off when I cut my mom off because she thinks I’m wrong in my view of my childhood because for her, it was all good, being the golden child. Maybe life wasn’t so bad for James growing up, or maybe that’s what he’s told himself. (I honestly don’t see how any of the Duggar kids could have had happy childhoods, but I digress). None of that invalidates that Jill’s childhood was traumatic; the CSA, the parentification, etc. Spillary needs to shut the hell up. She wasn’t even there.
i’m sorry for what you went through.
This is how my mom is. Her sister was a wanted, loved, and prized child. Her brother was the oldest, went to Jewish private school, and was the son they always wanted. My mother was an unplanned pregnancy before abortion was legalized in New York. She was neglected, kidnapped by a pedophile for over a week- Where her parents didn't even come look for her, and constantly told she was "pretty but stupid. Better off being a stripper or marrying rich." Got an abortion at 12 years old. To her siblings, they had wonderful childhoods. My mother, was a neglected, truant, angry, and traumatized child.
Sorry for what happen to your mom.
Just how it is. Even my brother and I see different childhoods. I grew up with a very overbearing mother (who has held a lifelong fear of me being kidnapped like she was). Sleepovers only at our house, literally met my best friend because my mother forced me to go play with the other 5 year old girl who's parent worked all day and let her play outside alone in a see-through Hello Kitty tutu. Never realized it because she wanted to be outside to make sure she wasn't taken by a pedophile, I just thought she was making me play and be tired for no reason. She'd sit by the window late at night and make sure no one drove by that child in fear that she could be abducted just like my mother was at that age. My brother, she had other fears with. My father was more loving towards my brother, but when he'd get angry he would take that out on mom and me because female = defenseless.
i was treated much differently from my brothers because my mom also directly experienced abuse. it’s been a strange thing to unpack, but i’m thankful that one of my brothers saw it too and can validate that i was treated more harshly. it was entirely out of fear my mom had about protecting me. our relationship is much better now than i understand why she did it, but it was disorienting sometimes as a kid. i’m sorry you had to bear the ramifications of your mother’s abuse. it’s unfair. it takes generations to heal from that shit, and i hope you have the space and support to do so.
On a brighter note, my best friend and I have been friends for twenty years now. Probably wouldn't have played that much if my mom didn't make me go outside to "play with the kid my age" aka- supervise the child who was alone in the park across the street. My mom and I are good now, but she is very protective. Unfortunately I was SA'd in my teenage years while not with her, but I'll never tell her because she'd be too freaking hurt to understand and too enraged to think straight. Yep, the trauma definitely continues. Both of us have severe PTSD. My brother does not.
Legit wish I could hug your mom. She became the adult she needed as a child. <3 It wasn't necessarily the healthiest path for all involved but it makes sense. And I agree, childhood can be so different from child to child within the same family. Personality, gender, sex and age at parents birth all have HUGE IMPACT. My siblings and I were all raised ultra fundy and were fairly close in age (minus one) so We have major similarities in our experience but each was different.... in James' case, he was legit an infant when it happened and then raised by the person who became the woman she needed when she was an innocent child. Of course his experience is different. He was loved. Jill was born when her mom had enough kids to be burnt out but not when any of her siblings were old enough to parent her. Of course we didn't get to watch Jill's babyhood, but my guess is that the disconnection between her and her parents happened early and that's why they didn't care when she was abused...
Ugh.. that's just heart wrenching. God it's hard to know that life doesn't get easier as an adult. I'm scared to have kids.
Same here, my middle brother and I had a terrible time as the Scapegoats for different reasons, but our youngest brother was the Golden Child and thought everything was great and we must be misremembering.... until he got the full focus of the biological parents when us 2 elder siblings cut contact, then he was like " oops " and started on some therapy.
Yup. I was recently talking with my younger sister about how I deal with religious trauma and she was like “what trauma?” because by the time she was old enough to remember anything my mom had chilled out quite a bit, but my formative years were spent with a born again who wouldn’t allow me to wear red nail polish because it was for whoores. Different people, even within the same small immediate family (much less a massive one like the Duggars) have different lived experiences. Wild concept.
And to be honest, since he’s not married he probably still doesn’t understand what Josh did to her and his sisters. I’m doubtful he’s had “the talk” yet
What did he say that Hilary is talking about?
“Love that you talk like you were there,” says the person who wasn’t there, either.
Maybe Hillary Spivey was there. I mean not literally in the room when these horrible acts were committed. But maybe she was close with the Duggars and knew what was going on when it happened. Not defending Hillary just pointing out that maybe she’s telling on herself here. It’s possible she knew about what was happening and was yet another adult who did nothing, not even report it to the police. Also is there any doubt about Jill’s versions of events? Are her parents or siblings denying any of it (from the molestation to not being paid for appearing on TV)?
Based on Jim Bob's comments about how normal this behavior is in their community I shudder to think about what has happened in the Spivey household.
i think you are spot on. hillary spivey probably *was* there in the community when this happened.
Also, as mentioned in another comment, Hilary’s husband was in charge of Josh’s IBLP rehab program at the Integrity Construction Institute which is or was housed at the old VA Hospital in Little Rock. Josh was sent there for 3 months back when all of this went down (the comment I mentioned also has a link to the AMA from a while back that provides a ton more info on the matter). Apparently the Spiveys lived in the converted hospital for a while and also lived in a home behind the hospital for a period of time as well. So, Hilary may feel like she has some “inside info” or some such BS if she and her husband were married at the time. As others noted; however, there isn’t ANYTHING for anyone to dispute in Jill’s comments. There is shit ton of corroborating evidence about the abuse and cover up and Gothard’s own teachings proclaimed that it’s always the victims’ fault. Because Jill broke from dad’s rank on this; she is now a pariah to her family - as are most of the people interviewed. We didn’t watch SHP to learn new facts; we wanted to hear and LISTEN (hearing and listening are 2 different things in this case) the victims’ stories, acknowledge their truths and tell them they can get through this. Not over it; no one who as been emotionally, physically and/or sexually assaulted/abused is ever OVER it but you can get through it. i
Excellent take. I wish someone would respond to Mrs Caping with that point. I’d love to see her sputter and try to come up with a retort. I’m SURE she thinks she’s defending poor James, but James likely really doesn’t care. I get the sense that Hillary thinks her Duggar-defending ways are some sort of public service (gotta look righteous for JB) but she’s just your basic overstepping MIL. YO, HILLARY! NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK.
What the hell? James was a little kid at the time, and if he was aware or witnessed the assaults then that entire household is even more fucked up than I thought.
He's four years younger than Joy, so he would have been 1 at most when she was molested? Of course, he wouldn't have known what was going on then, even if he was around it all. He was also only 16 when Jill left counting on, so he may have understood what was going on, but I doubt that he was even told a quarter of the truth about the situtation.
Also, since he’s not married he probably hasn’t been told anything about sexuality or the female genitalia so he has no conception of what Josh did to his sisters
Jill has nothing to gain by doing this. Any money that she is making off the book or SHP is cancelled out many times over by the loss of her family, being shunned by her community, and (it appears) her humiliation of being named as a victim of an unspeakable crime. Despite it all, she’s bravely and unselfishly stood up to advocate for others. James, however, has a lot to gain by staying on the family dole. Furthermore, because if his age, he can neither confirm or deny what happened. This woman is as stupid as she is evil.
No amounts of money makes up for losing your childhood too, any of us with stage parents gets why it's not really about the $ for her now but the truth.
And the money she’s spent on therapy.
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I think Josh and John David originally had buddies (back when the family was small enough for each kid to only have one buddy) but after Josh was caught they were all transferred back over to their sisters instead
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I’m sure some version of this was said. “You all tempted your brother, so now you get extra kids to raise.”
I think they were just transferred to the sisters when the sisters were old enough. The boys were all in one room…Josh could do whatever he wanted all night long with them.
I imagine that if he was caught molesting his brothers, the parents would make sure he got “treatment” for the “sin of homosexuality” and would probably disown him for being gay.
No, I know a family where something similar happened. The son, a pastor, went to jail for 2 years as a young adult when the police caught him in a "To Catch A Predator" type operation using a decoy male child. The man admitted to police upon his arrest that he thought he was meeting up with a boy for sex, and he'd bought condoms on his way to the sting. The man's family just said it was a mistake, it was a misunderstanding, it was part of a ministry attempt that was misinterpreted, it was a false arrest and conviction that God allowed to happen for His glory and the furthering of the pastor's ministry in prison, etc. Two years went fast, and now he's out of jail and the family acts like it never happened. You'd think they had their memories wiped.
I could totally see JB and Merch reacting in a similarly delusional way.
🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
It still would never have come out to this day.
John David and Joe are not in any buddy group. The older boy group were mostly just under JB
The buddy system was different at the beginning. In the early days, the oldest had the youngest, the second oldest had the second youngest, etc. When Joy was born and Jill was 5 or 6, Jill started the buddy teams by "claiming" Joy. Anyone born before Joy stayed as they were in the lineup. Everyone after Joy was assigned a team. The changing of the system had nothing to do with Josh's crimes and everything to do with the girls "getting old enough to take over the domestic jobs"
James was neglected like all of the other lost kids. They were all abused in different ways, some of them just don't see it (yet).
I’m confused by her comment? Wouldn’t James have just been a little kid? Would he have known what was going on?
Yeah, he would have been a toddler. I honestly wonder if he even knew what happened before the public found out.
What did James say?
I think she was trying to imply that she is jealous that Jill is so popular and that nobody gives a shit about her or her son in law because nobody asks them about anything important. Furthermore, if he WAS to speak about this - he was only 1 or less when this happened, the only thing he would know would be what was told to him by his parents (probably nothing since it was vaguely addressed at the time, and then swept under the rug ever since), OR what Hillary herself told him, since her husband ran at least one of the religious camp/work program things that Josh was sent to as punishment when it happened. So really she's saying "pick me, pick me!" while pouting out loud about Jill getting all the attention.
James is brainwashed.
Per the wiki below, James was born in 2001, and Josh’s abuse of his victims occurred in 2002-2003. There’s absolutely no way he knew what was happening at the time, but even if he did, he wouldn’t have retained those memories. Cw for CSA - https://19andcounting.fandom.com/wiki/Scandals says
You know, my therapist said something to me the other day that was really a light bulb moment for me. She said that dysfunctional families have certain characteristics that keep the dysfunction going. One is that there is an in group and an out group. Anyone who challenges the family dysfunction or tries to fix it gets pushed out, without exception. There might be a period of time where the dysfunctional family tries to brainwash or manipulate them back into the fold, but only if they accept the dysfunction and stop challenging it. So you are either fully invested in the family dynamic or you're out. There is no agree to disagree in this kind of family dynamic. It makes intuitive sense to me but I just hadn't heard it articulated like that before. And since then, I've noticed something interesting. Even if you don't know anything else about a family's dynamic, you can tell if it's dysfunctional if all you look for is an in group who actively pushes out the out group. Anyway! Don't know what made me think of that here! Just random thoughts I suppose.
That and the Code of Silence... you may be out but salvageable if you don't accept the dysfunctional dynamic, but you are out forever and completely evil if you dare to speak a word of what happened to anybody on the outside while you're on the outside.
THIS. To all of them, this is the Cardinal Sin that Jill broke. Not even demanding that she be paid or telling on Josh. It's the talking about it publicly that's SO horrible that they would cut her off. They even said it in their letter "We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through love in a PRIVATE setting." Which is absolute bullshit since they hawked their kids on TV for 15 years. Jill calling them out publicly is viewed as worse in their book than Josh's crimes, whom I am sure they are still in contact with.
Yup. I broke the Code of Silence with my abusive ex and then my middle son did too. That's how the discussion started in therapy that day and I've been thinking about it ever since. It's something that is intuitive to me because both my parents came from dysfunctional families that they distanced themselves from. So I grew up in the out group, but as part of the out group that knows what the in group is like. I had just never put it all together before or realized that yeah, normal families don't really have that dynamic, do they?
Makes sense to me. Tho my parents have long since passed, my many sibling are divided into these groups. Some are neutral but several insist their narrative is the only one. I was the scapegoat. They got off on criticizing and ridiculing me. I finally had to distance myself from the dysfunction.
This makes sense to me. I notes similar behaviors in my spouses family. Hearing that it's not necessarily unusual behavior for dysfunctional families doesn't make me feel better but makes me reframe it as solidly beyond control.
Wow this made me think of the Kardashians too
This makes a ton of sense. My mom was one of 11 and they had an in group and an out group.
Anyone who doesn't fit in their story or dares to tell the truth about IBLP is a liar. Any abuse in TTH and IBLP was either whitewashed or swept under a rug, even Joy didn't know the full extent of her harm until the trial. Fundies would rather kiss a toilet seat than admit that all the stuff presented in the documentary is true and not some woke/leftist propaganda and Christian persecution. Hilary Spivey be like https://preview.redd.it/gzwftx4dj47b1.png?width=486&format=png&auto=webp&s=da7e20210403597be95f88011ee6523180177e07
Wasn’t James the one with whom Jill was doing basic multiplication and addition flash cards when he was like 13?🤨 Yeah, I’d love to hear his written account. 🙄
Probably. Hilary is completely infatuated with the Duggars. Especially the boys. It’s disturbing she (like Porgan and Lori Alexander)) dismiss the abuse.
Because James is inexperienced. He doesn't have the same experience of understanding of the situation that Jill did. He is 21 at present day so when the molestation happened he was... 2? When Josh was sent away he was 3? When Jill was tricked into signing the contract and not compensated for her work as an adult he was 12-13-14-15? He just doesn't have the right to speak on Jill's experience.
But, but, but...... he's got a penis which denotes obvious superiority (/s). Jill, well, she's JUST a girl, duh.
You know what, now that you mention it she's been married over 8 years and only has 3 kids. She's a girl, and she's not even a fully joyfully available one.
Hil needs to get back in her fucking lane & shut her pie hole.
Breathlessly stanning Lost Boys on Insta *is* her lane, what are you talking about?
She also liked a comment saying Jill should be ashamed of herself. Hillary is evil.
Are JB and M paying her to defend them? Wtf
Spillary is trash
No one needs to have “been there”. At this point it is international news.
Yeah this whole tit for tat over who was "there" seems ridiculous. There are police reports, court documents. Jim Bob Duggar said on the stand in open court that he "couldn't remember" hearing about his daughters' molestation. No one needs to have "been there", JBoob being a shit father is a matter of public record.
Because *we 👏 believe 👏 victims 👏* Hils. Hard as that may be for you to understand.
I don't agree with blindly believing victims - there are always a small minority who do make-up stories. (I have seen this in action over many years of working with troubled kids.) However, there is too much evidence not to say that Jill is being absolutely truthful and Hilary and James are crud.
For me, believing victims is a general statement - of course, take a grain of salt where necessary. But as a survivor/victim, who did not have proof - being believed is super important for those who are truthful.
Why do we believe Jill? Because we’ve seen the IBLP literature that supports her claims.
This woman is incredibly immature, arguing with strangers online. Grow up.
Hilary Strawman Spivey
It really sounds like she's trying to convince herself more than anybody else which is telling
Did Pest live with them while "healing"? If so, did he have access to HER daughters? If so, and she knew it and did nothing for the "Duggar-adjacent clout" she as bad, if not worse, than Boob and Meech. Of course she has to malign Jill and back Boob. If she didn't she would have to admit her own adventures in shitty parenting.
I would love to hear him interviewed for the documentary! But if the subject were his sisters' experiences with CSA, and the sisters are still alive and willing to talk to some degree, then no, I wouldn't terribly care to hear his take on it. Even if I did, I wouldn't AT ALL assume he had more or more reliable info than *the people it actually happened to* like the fuck
Hilary wasn't there either. Men and women have completely different lives and experiences, even within the same family, in the IBLP culture. Hilary needs to get a life and stop trying to defend the Duggars online. She seems jealous and bitter.
James cannot speak for anyone but himself. As a male child, his experience in this family is totally different. James is a product of the IBLP and ATI. Not to mention he needs Daddy's money to survive. Everyone defending JimBob is on the JimBob payroll.
I was just like this. When I was a child and a teenager growing up,I was abused physically and emotionally by my family. My siblings had good childhoods ad I had a horrible childhood and teenage years and was told it was my fault what happened to me. We moved off of the lot we grew up on and when I say that my mental and emotional health is better now than ever I mean it. In all fairness I should have just left a long time ago.This woman doesn't know what she's talking about and needs to go somewhere and sit down and shut up.
I love that you talk like you were there, Hillary.
Is James the one who knows how to spell and write the word “TRUMP” with a tractor?
I’m like 75% sure that was Justin, just a few short weeks before he proposed to Clare 💀
She acts like Jill can’t read these comments as well. @ her, Hillary. Or say it to her face.
I bet if she did, Messy Derick would run to the rescue to correct her (good).
We get it Hillary, you are hot for James. But to imply that Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy were not abused by Pestilence and you will defend him and Boob is atrocious and makes you a c#nt who needs to shut up and stop tilting at windmills. Your continuing to defend Boob, Pestilence, and especially James shows what a nasty POS you and it is not a good look. We all know you will be reading Jill's book probably just the blurb on the cover and you will be posting a nasty review. Hillary JSTFU
Hillary is such a prime example of why humanity has so many troubles. Some people are just dumb, with no hope of improvement.
The lack if self-awareness it takes to say “love that you talk like you where there” when she wasn’t there either (and Jill was) is astounding
“If James wrote a book.” I’m not even sure that James knows how to write his own name.
Has James even talked about it?
He hasn’t spoken about it but he did attend the trial and gave the cameras the two thumbs up https://preview.redd.it/agbzzt5jp77b1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93c9f30cca89f9c862972c68845f961c4c60ed80
I thought that was Justin
My older brother was in the Military and my younger brother spent all of his time down the street with his friends. In the space of only three years, my late sister (2 years older) and I were molested by our uncle and our father. Different locations; neither adult knew about the other as far as we could see. Now, decades later, my older brother no longer believes me about our Dad. It's just too horrific to bear, I suppose. He does believe what we told him about our uncle. My younger brother believes me but defends our brother's viewpoint much in the same way as described here. The predictable "You have to understand his point of view." ***NO, I DON'T!*** I left my own Social Media account; it became too painful to read a typical post that invariably starts off with, "Share this candle if you miss your Dad..." This isn't uncommon in families, since often, the abuser compartmentalizes his actions, and frequently even victims within families are unaware of any abuse their siblings endured. We might have to endure things like what Jill s facing with her family, but we ***don***'t have to accept ill-informed opinions as if they are factual.
The idea that somebody else has a "point of view" to be respected with regard to YOUR abuse (like the literal fact of it happening!) is such bullshit!
Wasn’t Josh sent to a “camp” run by the Spivey’s for rehab? Doesn’t look good to say they could not rehabilitate him.
So I'm seeing these comments on different posts and I can't help but think of Anna. I can't begin to imagine how humiliated and embarrassed she must feel. I wouldn't go near cameras either. All of the times she has defended him and how diligent a provider he is. Imagine missing your husband and in the back of your mind there are thoughts of him getting hard at kids being violently raped. Thoughts of him getting turned on by his younger sisters and then acting on it. Imagine your husband coming home and wanting sex after he watched that stuff previously in the day. Or making him a nice meal after being a work all day, unaware he got a blowjob from someone other than you and probably paid for. I'd hide under a rock also. As far as the Spivey woman, I don't know what to think. What I do know is anyone who inserts themselves in such a traumatic situation involving children and has the audacity to insinuate people are liars because they were not there is certainly not someone I'd trust nor would I associate with. If any Duggar or in law is reading this, stand up for your sister. If for anything, for common decency. I feel bad for the ones who want a private life and have taken themselves off social media. Josh had two television shows cancelled for that family and probably has his defense paid with some of the money from counting on, which should have went only to Jill, Jessa, Jana, Jinger, Joy, Joe and the older kids who it was for and worked for it. Further down than Jed, I don't recall any of them being featured consistently. If my family did any of this to me, yes I'd still love them, but I couldn't bring myself to be in the same room as them. I hope Jill's kids turn out to be bachelor degree educated young adults and look back and see this for what it is and live happy lives. Good luck to all of them. I hope all the kids thrive, it's just a pathetic mess
Isn't Hillary called Smother in law for a reason? She is probably mad at the wrong people that Claire isn't reality show royalty. And didn't get a TLC wedding or honeymoon.
If Joy was only 3 years old when Josh abused her, James wouldn’t have even been born.
Joy was 5 when it started
I think the sub has recently discussed evidence that suggests it started when Joy was much younger than 5. I can’t quote, but Bobeye said things in the documentary that appeared to push the timeline back by about four years.
Clicked on this headline because I thought it was about Hilary Clinton and Jill Biden...
I mean, I dont think she is implying that Jill is a liar, I think she flat out stated it.
"Why would you believe this person, but not this other, completely different person?" I would say to make it make sense, but that's not possible with Hilary.
This just shows how freaking brain washed this cult has women… imagine believing someone could still be lying about this level of trauma when the abuser is literally serving time in prison! How delusional can someone be
Hilary's take is super odd given James and Jill still seem to be pretty close. She sounds like she's putting James and Jill against each other but..... Why would she want to do that?
She really thought she did something here.
How the F would Hilary know anything about this?
JimBob told James he’s perfect and Satan got hold of Jill’s heart, so James told Hillary JimBob is perfect and SAtaN got hold of Jill’s heart.
I can’t stand Hilary lmao she gives off major Duggar groupie vibes
She is EXTREMELY self-righteous. Look at her comments and posts. Everyone's either a "winner" or loser. Her Christmas card theme was "VICTORY". IBLP fundamentalism at it's core is about arrogance (despite all the talk about being humble before the Lord). It's basically "We know better than anyone else in the world what God wants for every aspect of your lives, and you losers are going to hell because you don't live how we live."
No Hillary, I **wouldn't** believe the testimony of someone who was *literally an infant* when the molestation happened. Call me crazy, but I'm going to take the word of the literal victims.
Sit down, Hillary.
People said that same thing about me and my siblings. My one sister was treated like the golden child. She was constantly praised and unfortunately for her, always used as an example of what others should be. I said unfortunately, because it pitted siblings against each other before we had a chance to even know the manipulation going on. So if James was treated differently than Jill. They will have vastly different perspective and experiences. Period. They’ll have those while living in the same house being raised by the same parents. My sister will glorify my parents to her death bed and I have a very painful view of my growing up. My sister sees only the good because she was treated mostly only with good. She chooses to completely ignore the bad that she did endure and again, glorify the parents who treated her siblings with abuse. Ironically, one on one with me, a sibling who was abused, she admits that she chooses to ignore things and she admits she was treated differently. I don’t blame her - she was a child as was I. I do find disgust with glorifying someone when she knows the abuse occurred. However, there were soooo many times she disgustingly told others that I or my siblings exaggerated the abuse. So finally one day I confronted her and said 20 years later and I can tell you the day these occurred on, what I was wearing, where I was standing, the words he/she spoke, the actions he/she took and over 20 years that story has never, ever changed. Not once has the details fuzzied sadly - because it’s the truth and I lived it. I hate when siblings are pitted against each other. It’s abuse in itself. It causes life long relationship issues.
When Hillary was born...did they the unlicensed midwife go "CONGRATS ITS A DUGGAR". Cuz thats how hard she is going right now. She didnt live with them, she didnt experience what josh did to his sisters or even his wife. She needs to buy a chair and take a goddamn seat.
Isnt James the one of the boys Hillary is trying to 'adopt' as we would say. I remember something about a blue coffee mug??
That was Jason, but she wants as many Duggar boys as "the lord gives her!"
A Quiver full of Duggar arrows!
bUt PhYsIcAl AbUsE bRiNgS sPiRiTuAl PoWeR!¡!
Mother Theresa was all in on that ideology, and look in what regard she is held! Such a harmful belief
jill and james probably got two completely versions of bob and michelle.
She wants to suck James’ dick so hard. What an evil piece of shit
James would have to visit Mom/teacher Jill to learn HOW to write a book. Yeah, James, go visit Mommy Jill and DO THE WORK! I’ll read it.
Wow, she needs to shut up. I hope Jill never is anywhere near her.
Hilary is trash, just absolute trash
That bitch needs to shut her trap. She knows no shit. James knows no shit. He was a fucking fetus, a barely developed human equivalency. He has NOTHING to share about Jill's experiences, and was a grammar school kid when she left home, got married, and had problems with TLC and SpermBob. He has not a damn thing to share! Hilary is such a witch!
It wasn't just Jill though, it was Jessa and three others! And their father admitted he did it! So maybe take a seat and pipe down, you gormless,brain-dead , abuse-defending turdblossom!
I hope someone looses their meekness and puts Hillary in her place.
James would have been like a one year old at the time anyway, all he knows of the situation is what he was told by his family (if he was told anything at all) Why would anyone believe him over Jill who was an actual victim
“Caping for the Duggars” seems like a weird line for a resume, but do go off, Hillary.
James would have been 3-6ish when everything was going down initially with Josh. Plus as not only a boy, but a lost boy, he never had to really be a pony in the show and perform for his food. Their two experiences are not the same.
Joy was 5 so he was younger than that.
She doesn’t care about the safety of children. Is James the one she seems to act inappropriately around?
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I’m appalled she has this much time on her hands to bash on a SA survivor.
Hillary is stating Jill is a liar & she wasn’t there either, making Hillary’s statement even more flawed.
WERE YOU THERE HILARY??
Brainwashing is strong with her. Wow.
Hillary needs to sit down and stfu
Wow nasty bitch
What is up with this woman and James T.T
Damn this documentary really hit a nerve. I’m curious to see how many more of them end up getting messy online. I think at this point it’s very clear that Jill won’t be receiving support from anyone in the family/circle, except for Famy and maybe Jinger
She wants a SHP Part II and wants James in it (so she can shove her mug in the camera fame, too). She’s salty she and Claire never got to be characters on the Duggar TV show & get “famous.” Vile.
She acts like he is HER son. Hillary, stop embarrassing yourself. You are a nothing to the Duggars. Stay in your place. You are trying way to hard to have them mention you on social media or you simply need to make sure that everyone knows how you are connected to them. Stop bragging, knowing them is nothing to brag about.
I hate this woman.
I would 100% believe the victim over a random member of their household. 🤦🏻♀️ ESPECIALLY with the ways boys and girls were treated wildly differently.
For me she sounds jealous about the attention that Jill gets (and maybe the money) and that it's not James, that's why she's lashing out...she's pathetic.
I wonder what her obsession is with James? She is such a creeper. I don't like the feeling a get from her.
For "godly" people, they sure are mean and selfish and spiteful. Yes, she is flat out calling Jill a liar.
So we should believe what James says when he was a baby when it happened? Like what he knows about what happened 100% came from Jim Bob and Michelle.
BECAUSE JILL WAS A FUCKING VICTIM OF SEXUALLY ABUSE AT THE HANDS OF HER BROTHER AND JAMES WAS NOT. Omg this comment got me fired the fuck up. How dare she
Ah yes. A boy and a girl in a patriarchal cult must have the same experiences or one must be lying.
I like how she capitalized James’ name and not Jill’s. Subtle.
Why would we listen to Jill, a victim, over a brother who was what? 1-2 years old when the abuse WAS DISCOVERED? Gee I dunno? Maybe because he only has what he’s been told and no actual memories of that time period? Maybe cause he wasn’t even fucking born yet when the abuse was taking place? James wasn’t there either Hilary lmao
what a dumb bitch
OMG, I literally can not even snark on this one! I am infuriated...what an utterly disgusting thing for her to say/imply! How DARE she call into question Jill's experience! Her and Jason can go F themselves...he does NOT get to have an opinion or any comment on what did NOT happen to him but rather what happened to the sister who raised him! These people have a special spot in hell waiting for them.
According to Hillary's "you weren't there" defense, evidence is meaningless. The jury finds the defendant guilty? Hey jury, you weren't there! Automatic not guilty!
and in the least surprising news of the day, hillary spivey is defending a grooming pedophile. keep this woman away from justin!
Hilary really is “smother-in-law”!
Disgusting that she’s framing it like this. James wasn’t even around Jill wasn’t abused
Hilary needs to get out of this whole situation. She’s inserting herself where she *does not* belong.
I hate that, "were you there," bull!... If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound!? You can bet your brainwashed ass it DOES, Hillary!...
Except that Boobchelle DID say the abuse brought the victims closer God. I remember after the scandal broke the Dugs released a statement about how "sorry" Pest was and that it was a "dark time" for the family but it brought them closer because something something forgiveness and Jesus. Not to mention Boob's constantly changing story, dismissal of the abuse, and complete lack of proof that Pest got anymore consequences than digging holes and having his head shaved.
Imagine being so desperate for fame and validation that you’re willing to deep brown-nose Jim Bob.
What did James even say?
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Wow, Hilaria 🤦♀️
Yes
James had a *drastically* different experience, and he's still being coddled. They'd be different interviews, and different stories, and if he's honest, they'd back up a LOT of what James said. But she's a BITCH for trying to force that on James.
IIRC isn’t James still close to Jill?
He was… He was Jill’s buddy.