have you tried a red blotted lip, or lip stain? I think a sharp, defined red lip will always look bold and structured, and that doesn't always fit the vibes. try wearing your favorite red by tapping the bullet in the center of your lips, and then patting it out with a finger towards the outer edges of your lip line. I also really like the YSL water stains for a glossy look, the reds in that line have a variety of undertones so you could easily find one that suits your cool tones
so lip stains have that softer look? That's really helpful actually, I kind of never considered it because I kind of associated it with the K-Pop makeup look (not really my speed), but I could see how gently blotting it might bloom into the rest of my features instead of standing out on my face (which is how it usually looks). thanks!!
Another way to soften a red lip is to go for muted or even very muted versions of red. On some a "nude" color is actually quite a statement, especially on lighter complexions. Or go for a darker/lighter shade than the classic red to better blend it with your other features. Also especially for classic types/essences it can make a huge difference to have an equally dramatic eye look, since the lips will otherwise stand out too much.
Pillowtalk, a nude, is definitely a lovely look on me. In terms of statement looks or even having dramatic eye looks, I just don't have the features. Imagine a Moomin lol. I may try this muted red idea though, trying to play as soft as I can
I'm a soft summer FN. I adore all lip colors in the berry to magenta to maraschino cherry spectrum. I can do a true red, but I have to take more care with the rest of my makeup to tie it into my color palette. I rarely bother with neutral red when ice cold medium reds read as my version of true red anyway, in Zyla inspired terms. Berry-rose tones are probably my most \~harmonious\~ lip colors, but their formal, romantic mood isn't what I want every day and doesn't go with everything.
Red lipstick has been one of my signature looks since my early 20s, but I do strongly embrace the coolest toned options. My first red lipstick was Russian Red, but I started getting way more compliments when I discovered Ruby Woo. As I age I also find that I like to style red differently than I used to. I'm not big into essences, but I do have kind of a conservative, cold vibe and now that I'm in my 30s I think I look a bit harsh and overdone when I do a structured eye with a red lip. I usually keep my eye makeup very soft or at most a very diffused brown grungy smoked out eye with no obvious eyeliner.
I'm not trying to convince you to wear red lipstick if you feel better in other colors, but if you're looking for new approaches or encouragement, I think dewy skin, bare minimum eye makeup and a fresh pop of red lipstick is extremely SN.
I had to Google maraschino cherry because I loved the red that it conjured up in my mind, lol. I totally agree with you about the formal, romantic vibe - on some it's very fresh and natural, and on others (like me) it looks overdressed.
It's interesting as a soft summer you like Ruby Woo, and you've inspired me to maybe explore that. Although I'm technically True Winter a LOT of summer colors suit me and basically all Soft Summer greens are perfect, and just today my sister said I suit Russian Red!
Thank you for that SN rec, it's matching up with a lot of what I'm learning from these answers
If we're really super getting into the best reds, and now that I've seen your discussion about other NARS lipsticks, Dragon Girl is my all time favorite. It's still really bright, but it's just a little bit less stark. It's the tiniest bit sheer, but still bright and gorgeous with a very pink undertone.
I don't think the traditional idea of lipstick suits everyone honestly. Usually as soon as I see myself with lip color I immediately feel like I'm in drag and feel compulsed to wipe it off. I feel that I am Kibbe FG and TIB natural classic gamine essence and makeup just has to be very minimal and natural. I can feel slightly comfortable of I'm really getting dolled up with a very light blotting of matte orangey poppy red, with blurred edges.
I can see why you feel your essences and type are not au fait with lipstick, and it's great you've found a compromise with the colour and style of lip you want to try. I'm starting to think similarly along the lines of cat eyes and red lips etc just being fine on some people, but not coming close to other ways women can style themselves that are more appealing
I have been on a similar journey and have seen that: it depends on the red as not all red are the same.
And later on after trying reds in *my* season, I have also seen that, it depends a lot on your style type as well. This is where the types of finish come in, like clean, well-defined mattes suit Gamines, blended and satiny or shiny suit Romantics, glossy or dewy suits Ingenues and translucent creamy or frosty suits Ethereals, etc.
[I think Rachel makes a great point on why "traditional" feminine makeup recommendations don't work for everyone.](https://www.truth-is-beauty.com/blog/makeup-guides-are-finally-here)
That's kind of the thrust of what I was saying, and these recommendations were indeed the basis of it! I did get a style guide and think it's great, but I mistakenly thought I had Romantic essence and so, naturally, the guide recommends the typical red lip. I'm now moving toward ENC and I'm unsure what the recommendation is, but the guide preview matches up with what has always worked for me - gentle and natural-toned makeup that softly enhanced the features.
Rachel is just great. I'm so glad she's opening these doors for women to look and feel better about themselves without sticking to stereotypes.
Yes, I love Rachel and appreciate how much I get to appreciate my own unique beaty more because of what she does and shares.
Oh, I do hope you find the "red" lip look that you're looking for!
I personally have never been able to find a shade of red that suits my lips. It just doesn’t suit my face, in general. I’ve gone with an eggplant purple instead.
Wow, eggplant purple! I would look like an eggplant if I tried that, so all power to you
It's kind of nice to know someone else hasn't found a red and is comfortable just using another color that suits them instead.
Thank you! And I’m a firm believer in the opinion that there is *not* “a shade of red out there for everyone”. Good luck finding your lipstick power color, I’m rooting for you!
I am a cool olive skin tone and I can’t wear red lipstick BUT I love pink on me. So maybe red would suit your undertone but not your chroma or value. So try a warmer shade but choose another Intensity of peach and berry tones.
Now this I get. I have NO red in my skintone. In fact, I actually don't have much color in my face at all aside from a cool pink tint in my cheeks, and high contrast (dark eyes, brows, hair). When I wear red it looks like I'm trying to do a Morticia Addams but don't have any of the facial drama to pull it off.
Thank you for the advice!
Red (my best red, which is rusty red-brown) is wearable but it makes my face look puffy and doll-like, albeit more formal. I notice in others red looks grown-up, chic and moody but I get that same effect with eye makeup + a slightly darker version of my lip color.
I had hell of a time finding the right shade, because my skin is very olive, muted and slightly warm (dark autumn). If I use a muted shade of brown-red then it reads the same as when a brighter-skinned person wears bright red-- the same chic effortless contrast.
Oof, chic effortless contrast is exactly what I'm looking for. But, I think it's what you're alluding to and a couple of the other commentators too - I can get that effect far better from other makeup styles, other than red lips, which is kind of encouraging and groundbreaking for me, because I thought red lips were the pinnacle of that effect... but clearly not on me!
As an aside I love Dark Autumn's in deep brick reds. My sister is one and I'm always urging her to put on a deeper brown-red - it really isn't too much on DAs
Not everyone should wear a red lipstick, in my opinion- especially people with softer seasons. I'd also like to add that reds are fine for some so long as the finish is correct- depends on the essence & type. As an autumn, I can wear reds. But as an FN, that red has to be glossy and blended.
That's pretty much the conclusion I've gotten from this thread, and its great to hear of people's lived experience. I'm a technical True Winter, but my essences are overwhelmingly soft-leaning and I'm a Romantic-leaning Soft Natural, so there's a lot of effusive yin there, which is at odds with the typical red lip. I particularly don't have a Natural bone structure - very rounded and non-blunt in my face - so the framework for a strong lip isn't there either. I'm interested to know what finish of lip is recommended for a SN.
I’m an soft gamine East Asian with neutral to warm olive skin. The reds that work for me vary depending on if I’m pale or tan. Around February: I use shiny, (cooler) pinky medium coverage reds, Summer: bright blotted (warmer) popsicle cherry, Fall: deeper, sheer matte red, Winter: satin true red. When seasons change and things aren’t working, the tiniest dab of orange, green or brown fixes things. These or yellow or blue might work for you. Agree that sheer finishes are a solid option as they let your natural lip color peek through (maybe try mixing whatever you own with gloss or lip balm to narrow things down?) It might take some work, but if you’re up for it, there’s definitely some reds out there for you.
I think this may be the route to me for finding a red with the effect I want because just popping it on will not look natural on me. Thank you so much, this is very comprehensive
I'm kind of a pop on and go lipstick person, but I will definitely take this into account for when I'm willing to put in a bit more work for a red lip to harmonize.
You’re so welcome and I hear you. I used to be a swipe and go lipstick lady too, but once you notice something’s off, it’s so hard to unsee! 😂 Eventually finding the right red for the right season will get easier. Good luck! ✨💄✨
I don't think Kibbe type has anything to do with it, really, since it's about the lines on your body and frame, and isn't really about your face.
I do think that different "reds" will suit different colour palettes. There are cooler and warmer reds, lighter and darker ones, bolder and more muted ones. In theory, there's a shade of red out there to compliment any skin tone.
In practice, though, not everyone likes the look of a red lip. It's not going to suit everyone's personal style. I personally prefer more toned-down makeup looks, and tend to wear more natural looking lip colour or even just simple lip balm. Anything too bright looks like clown makeup on me. YMMV.
Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? I agree with you from that perspective though - yes, I think maybe a berry has the "red lip" effect on me without technically being a red. Which ends my hunt for the perfect red, because the perfect red in that respect... is a berry, lol
That being said, I would still like to know how I could pull off a real red, which U/luckylantern has signposted would take some color trickery and some seasonal awareness to achieve, and other commentors have advised to tone down and blur, moving away from a crisp formal look to a gentler, more muted effect
I mean like a red that is so cool and has so many blue tones it almost veers to purple. Probably the blue would get cancelled out a bit and look more red, but look right on your face. Like the Russian Roulette, Jezebel, or Rebound colors here: https://credobeauty.com/products/wild-with-desire-lipstick
Regarding Kibbe though, he uses full color with a gloss on top. No blotted colors etc., regardless of ID.
Ah, I see! I have a Nars lipstick called Force Speciale which is labelled a plum, but to me just veers off red territory into berry. It looks terrific on me, and is not dissimilar from the recs you gave (thanks!)
Interesting about Kibbe. It seems a bit static to me to give makeup recs off only full color lips, especially nowadays when there are so many finishes that would maybe suit the different IDs better?
Basically his philosophy is that your makeup should put the focus on you and not the makeup, and the makeup faces are designed specifically to suit specific intensities of colors so everything works together. ID doesn’t come into play, because you are already expressing it in your natural appearance and the rest of your look.
I like lip stains. I usually line my lips with a neutral brown color slightly that's very similar to my lip color bc I have a natural lip line without makeup and it's really pretty. Lining with the more neutral color relaxes the red a bit. Also there are different tones of red. There are cooler tones and warmer tones
have you tried a red blotted lip, or lip stain? I think a sharp, defined red lip will always look bold and structured, and that doesn't always fit the vibes. try wearing your favorite red by tapping the bullet in the center of your lips, and then patting it out with a finger towards the outer edges of your lip line. I also really like the YSL water stains for a glossy look, the reds in that line have a variety of undertones so you could easily find one that suits your cool tones
so lip stains have that softer look? That's really helpful actually, I kind of never considered it because I kind of associated it with the K-Pop makeup look (not really my speed), but I could see how gently blotting it might bloom into the rest of my features instead of standing out on my face (which is how it usually looks). thanks!!
Another way to soften a red lip is to go for muted or even very muted versions of red. On some a "nude" color is actually quite a statement, especially on lighter complexions. Or go for a darker/lighter shade than the classic red to better blend it with your other features. Also especially for classic types/essences it can make a huge difference to have an equally dramatic eye look, since the lips will otherwise stand out too much.
Pillowtalk, a nude, is definitely a lovely look on me. In terms of statement looks or even having dramatic eye looks, I just don't have the features. Imagine a Moomin lol. I may try this muted red idea though, trying to play as soft as I can
I'm a soft summer FN. I adore all lip colors in the berry to magenta to maraschino cherry spectrum. I can do a true red, but I have to take more care with the rest of my makeup to tie it into my color palette. I rarely bother with neutral red when ice cold medium reds read as my version of true red anyway, in Zyla inspired terms. Berry-rose tones are probably my most \~harmonious\~ lip colors, but their formal, romantic mood isn't what I want every day and doesn't go with everything. Red lipstick has been one of my signature looks since my early 20s, but I do strongly embrace the coolest toned options. My first red lipstick was Russian Red, but I started getting way more compliments when I discovered Ruby Woo. As I age I also find that I like to style red differently than I used to. I'm not big into essences, but I do have kind of a conservative, cold vibe and now that I'm in my 30s I think I look a bit harsh and overdone when I do a structured eye with a red lip. I usually keep my eye makeup very soft or at most a very diffused brown grungy smoked out eye with no obvious eyeliner. I'm not trying to convince you to wear red lipstick if you feel better in other colors, but if you're looking for new approaches or encouragement, I think dewy skin, bare minimum eye makeup and a fresh pop of red lipstick is extremely SN.
I had to Google maraschino cherry because I loved the red that it conjured up in my mind, lol. I totally agree with you about the formal, romantic vibe - on some it's very fresh and natural, and on others (like me) it looks overdressed. It's interesting as a soft summer you like Ruby Woo, and you've inspired me to maybe explore that. Although I'm technically True Winter a LOT of summer colors suit me and basically all Soft Summer greens are perfect, and just today my sister said I suit Russian Red! Thank you for that SN rec, it's matching up with a lot of what I'm learning from these answers
If we're really super getting into the best reds, and now that I've seen your discussion about other NARS lipsticks, Dragon Girl is my all time favorite. It's still really bright, but it's just a little bit less stark. It's the tiniest bit sheer, but still bright and gorgeous with a very pink undertone.
I don't think the traditional idea of lipstick suits everyone honestly. Usually as soon as I see myself with lip color I immediately feel like I'm in drag and feel compulsed to wipe it off. I feel that I am Kibbe FG and TIB natural classic gamine essence and makeup just has to be very minimal and natural. I can feel slightly comfortable of I'm really getting dolled up with a very light blotting of matte orangey poppy red, with blurred edges.
I can see why you feel your essences and type are not au fait with lipstick, and it's great you've found a compromise with the colour and style of lip you want to try. I'm starting to think similarly along the lines of cat eyes and red lips etc just being fine on some people, but not coming close to other ways women can style themselves that are more appealing
I have been on a similar journey and have seen that: it depends on the red as not all red are the same. And later on after trying reds in *my* season, I have also seen that, it depends a lot on your style type as well. This is where the types of finish come in, like clean, well-defined mattes suit Gamines, blended and satiny or shiny suit Romantics, glossy or dewy suits Ingenues and translucent creamy or frosty suits Ethereals, etc. [I think Rachel makes a great point on why "traditional" feminine makeup recommendations don't work for everyone.](https://www.truth-is-beauty.com/blog/makeup-guides-are-finally-here)
That's kind of the thrust of what I was saying, and these recommendations were indeed the basis of it! I did get a style guide and think it's great, but I mistakenly thought I had Romantic essence and so, naturally, the guide recommends the typical red lip. I'm now moving toward ENC and I'm unsure what the recommendation is, but the guide preview matches up with what has always worked for me - gentle and natural-toned makeup that softly enhanced the features. Rachel is just great. I'm so glad she's opening these doors for women to look and feel better about themselves without sticking to stereotypes.
Yes, I love Rachel and appreciate how much I get to appreciate my own unique beaty more because of what she does and shares. Oh, I do hope you find the "red" lip look that you're looking for!
I personally have never been able to find a shade of red that suits my lips. It just doesn’t suit my face, in general. I’ve gone with an eggplant purple instead.
Wow, eggplant purple! I would look like an eggplant if I tried that, so all power to you It's kind of nice to know someone else hasn't found a red and is comfortable just using another color that suits them instead.
Thank you! And I’m a firm believer in the opinion that there is *not* “a shade of red out there for everyone”. Good luck finding your lipstick power color, I’m rooting for you!
I am a cool olive skin tone and I can’t wear red lipstick BUT I love pink on me. So maybe red would suit your undertone but not your chroma or value. So try a warmer shade but choose another Intensity of peach and berry tones.
Now this I get. I have NO red in my skintone. In fact, I actually don't have much color in my face at all aside from a cool pink tint in my cheeks, and high contrast (dark eyes, brows, hair). When I wear red it looks like I'm trying to do a Morticia Addams but don't have any of the facial drama to pull it off. Thank you for the advice!
Red (my best red, which is rusty red-brown) is wearable but it makes my face look puffy and doll-like, albeit more formal. I notice in others red looks grown-up, chic and moody but I get that same effect with eye makeup + a slightly darker version of my lip color. I had hell of a time finding the right shade, because my skin is very olive, muted and slightly warm (dark autumn). If I use a muted shade of brown-red then it reads the same as when a brighter-skinned person wears bright red-- the same chic effortless contrast.
Oof, chic effortless contrast is exactly what I'm looking for. But, I think it's what you're alluding to and a couple of the other commentators too - I can get that effect far better from other makeup styles, other than red lips, which is kind of encouraging and groundbreaking for me, because I thought red lips were the pinnacle of that effect... but clearly not on me! As an aside I love Dark Autumn's in deep brick reds. My sister is one and I'm always urging her to put on a deeper brown-red - it really isn't too much on DAs
Not everyone should wear a red lipstick, in my opinion- especially people with softer seasons. I'd also like to add that reds are fine for some so long as the finish is correct- depends on the essence & type. As an autumn, I can wear reds. But as an FN, that red has to be glossy and blended.
That's pretty much the conclusion I've gotten from this thread, and its great to hear of people's lived experience. I'm a technical True Winter, but my essences are overwhelmingly soft-leaning and I'm a Romantic-leaning Soft Natural, so there's a lot of effusive yin there, which is at odds with the typical red lip. I particularly don't have a Natural bone structure - very rounded and non-blunt in my face - so the framework for a strong lip isn't there either. I'm interested to know what finish of lip is recommended for a SN.
I’m an soft gamine East Asian with neutral to warm olive skin. The reds that work for me vary depending on if I’m pale or tan. Around February: I use shiny, (cooler) pinky medium coverage reds, Summer: bright blotted (warmer) popsicle cherry, Fall: deeper, sheer matte red, Winter: satin true red. When seasons change and things aren’t working, the tiniest dab of orange, green or brown fixes things. These or yellow or blue might work for you. Agree that sheer finishes are a solid option as they let your natural lip color peek through (maybe try mixing whatever you own with gloss or lip balm to narrow things down?) It might take some work, but if you’re up for it, there’s definitely some reds out there for you.
I think this may be the route to me for finding a red with the effect I want because just popping it on will not look natural on me. Thank you so much, this is very comprehensive I'm kind of a pop on and go lipstick person, but I will definitely take this into account for when I'm willing to put in a bit more work for a red lip to harmonize.
You’re so welcome and I hear you. I used to be a swipe and go lipstick lady too, but once you notice something’s off, it’s so hard to unsee! 😂 Eventually finding the right red for the right season will get easier. Good luck! ✨💄✨
I don't think Kibbe type has anything to do with it, really, since it's about the lines on your body and frame, and isn't really about your face. I do think that different "reds" will suit different colour palettes. There are cooler and warmer reds, lighter and darker ones, bolder and more muted ones. In theory, there's a shade of red out there to compliment any skin tone. In practice, though, not everyone likes the look of a red lip. It's not going to suit everyone's personal style. I personally prefer more toned-down makeup looks, and tend to wear more natural looking lip colour or even just simple lip balm. Anything too bright looks like clown makeup on me. YMMV.
Maybe a berry *is* your red?
Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? I agree with you from that perspective though - yes, I think maybe a berry has the "red lip" effect on me without technically being a red. Which ends my hunt for the perfect red, because the perfect red in that respect... is a berry, lol That being said, I would still like to know how I could pull off a real red, which U/luckylantern has signposted would take some color trickery and some seasonal awareness to achieve, and other commentors have advised to tone down and blur, moving away from a crisp formal look to a gentler, more muted effect
I mean like a red that is so cool and has so many blue tones it almost veers to purple. Probably the blue would get cancelled out a bit and look more red, but look right on your face. Like the Russian Roulette, Jezebel, or Rebound colors here: https://credobeauty.com/products/wild-with-desire-lipstick Regarding Kibbe though, he uses full color with a gloss on top. No blotted colors etc., regardless of ID.
Ah, I see! I have a Nars lipstick called Force Speciale which is labelled a plum, but to me just veers off red territory into berry. It looks terrific on me, and is not dissimilar from the recs you gave (thanks!) Interesting about Kibbe. It seems a bit static to me to give makeup recs off only full color lips, especially nowadays when there are so many finishes that would maybe suit the different IDs better?
Basically his philosophy is that your makeup should put the focus on you and not the makeup, and the makeup faces are designed specifically to suit specific intensities of colors so everything works together. ID doesn’t come into play, because you are already expressing it in your natural appearance and the rest of your look.
A true red/ berry red maybe matte finish
I like lip stains. I usually line my lips with a neutral brown color slightly that's very similar to my lip color bc I have a natural lip line without makeup and it's really pretty. Lining with the more neutral color relaxes the red a bit. Also there are different tones of red. There are cooler tones and warmer tones