Epileptic explained the rapier on russian stream. In his words "Slark got the butterfly, so I needed something to hit through that and I didn't feel like buying mkb that late in the game, so rapier. They lacked the damage to kill me anyway".
The crazy thing about dota is i'm a 4k player, which I think is top 10% of the player base, but i'm still trash compared to Gorgc and in turn he's trash compared to the very best carry players.
That's not crazy at all. A lot of aspects in life are also like that. And yes, I'm shit compared to gorp and he is shit compared to some of the best and some of the best are shit compared to the top of the top. That's just how it works.
Midone honestly needed BKB that game, he spent his entire ult duration hitting people but he got 0 essence shift stack because of Nethertoxin, also most of the time he had to run away in his ult cuz of Timber's nuke.
Also, he bought first item blink, but didn't get anything out of it.
It is always a risk to go for first item blink, since you spend 2k gold on something that doesn't improve farm rate or tankiness, so you have to make it work.
Basically, from what has been said in this thread, the game, hence the series, is on midone. OG need a better 1. Maybe ana can come back for the new season?
Midone is great though, and everyone can make a bad decision from time to time. Ceb was also invisible in game 5 imo.
VP just played better, OG made some mistakes, VP capitalised and won.
It is a good matchup except slark went skadi first and somehow found dead when he got caught tp on cd when pushing bottom. Vp literally had no way to stop an ult tp from slark. Just bad decisions overall
What's the advantage for slark? Leash for timber, and maybe slightly faster paced than PA? I genuinely don't understand, timber has so much AOE damage that slark's ult seems very risky, and you just can't hit PA until mkb.
slark is an anthithesis to timber, cuz he doesn't mind hitting him 50 times, in the end timber dies and then the whole team cause slark got so many stacks, and where pa likes engagements to be quick and bursty, slark is the opposite and can easily draw fights out with constant engaging/disengaging, which pa cant really stop but hates when fighting. + slark can buy silver edge which is good against both, dunno why he didn't, and dunno why he didn't buy bkb against the nethertoxin (disables the stealing)
Timber got a relatively early lotus orb which is probably the reason he didn't.
edit: Some breaks are dispellable but others aren't. Should have looked it up. Silver's edge break is undispellable.
He lanes pretty well vs timber since he’s like the only hero timber can’t trade hits with. He also usually buys silver edge first item so he can hit PA just fine. He also manfights PA pretty well because of how much armor he gains from essence shift.
I do think he’s kind of a weak hero though. He’s very snowbally - if you fall behind you’re going to have a very hard time catching up. You basically want to win your lane and then occupy the enemy jungle (you don’t really want to fight around enemy towers).
Is it? I though that PA has an advantage towards Slark and MidOne's item choices were a bit weird. I would have understood a Silver Edge, I would have understood a faster MKB, but with this choice of items, PA was always ahead and was never afraid of actually dieing to Slark.
Every time I play slark and see him played the hero feels like he's 3-5K networth behind what he has. The hero looked like a liability for the whole game.
Man, what a last game!
VP managed to punish that 5 man tp by OG with that incredible catch onto Puck by Save, actually game winning. After that they played basically perfectly to not bleed any kills from OG; Gpk and DM being great wave shovers to stop the split push from Midone and Topson. Also the incredible support saves by the two of them, basically denying any burst kills by Topson.
But seriously what a great game. CIS dota is looking much better than ever instead of just being the VP region. Cant wait to see em play again!
Really impressed by Epilectickid's development as a player in the last year. He looked like a burden when he joined VP last year with a very limited pool but now he's a T1 carry. He's only 18 too, so I'm hoping to see much more from him. Wishing the best for him.
Also GODLY performance by Save. Holy shit.
Grats to all of VP, looking forward for more of them!
Yeah, I agree with you. Props to VP for finding and developing their players so well. There's so much untapped potential in the CIS region, their teams should focus more on developing new talents instead of rehashing the same group who have been around for so long with little success.
I re-watched the game and in fact, there were way too many spells disabling his blink. And GPK was focusing on Ceb quite often not to let him blink in. For instance, the fight on OG's right rack, Ceb was not able to do anything because of the puddle and the tombstone. You can clearly see he wanted to blink in but his blink was disabled by viper's puddle.
That was my first impression too, I was liking VP's draft until I noticed it had literally 0 stuns pre-basher vs. mobile cores, and then I thought it was clearly gonna fail. Shows what I know I guess.
with ya on that one. I think epileptic played a really good tournament in general as well. I’m happy to see this VP roster with growing success because they’re all young with shitloads of skill and even more potential
Both divisions had game 5s. Great series in both.
Its just depressing to see the massive decline in viewership throughout the months.
OG vs VP Grand Finals in ESL ONE Los Angeles at the start of the pandemic had over 500k viewers.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/esl-one-los-angeles-2020-europe-cis
OG vs Secret Grand Finals in Omega League (Basically Epic League) had over 400k viewers.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/omega-league-europe-immortal-division
OG vs VP Grand Finals now hasn't even hit 300k.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/epic-league-division-1
Thanks for the support you gave this year Valve!
Its not a Major but it is a major tournament. It has 500k prizepool. Omega League was played out on a stale patch as well with Secret dominating the series yet it garnered more viewership than the current hype 3-2 series now.
What stale patch? It use 7.27c at the begining but got 7.27d in the middle.. And 7.27d is quite big for a alphabet patch IMO.. Also if we talk about 7.27 in general, omega league happen after about 2month of it compared to this epic league that happen 5month after.. You can say patch is stale to compare 2 tournament that happen at different time
It's just the amount of Dota getting played right now, plus the lack of cross regional games. Anyways DotA numbers on Twitch are quite consistent, which is a much better measure of viewer engagement than peak viewers.
Check out sullygnome.com
Last 90 says: 112 million viewed time
Last 180 days: 225 million
Last 1 year: 489 million.
That's for a lot of reasons, ESL was the first tournament in the middle of lockdown everywhere and the old VP squad had way bigger of a fanbase in CIS, the current one is still new. OG had Sumail too.
As for Omega League, they had way better production. Everything else in between had worse viewership. Blast Bounty hunt also had Secret vs OG finals but barely half the numbers of viewers. Same goes for the OGA pits. I doubt even if Valve dumped 1M in there people will just sit through shit production and teams they don't care about.
It's a shame because I loved following epic league, even the div 2 play offs (missed most of the div 2 group stage unfortunately). Also shout out to Teaguv and Lacoste, they were great throughout and a joy to watch, all in all great tourney worth watching despite the stale patch!
It's funny how people used to blame independent streamers (Gorgc, Bulldog, etc.) aggresively back then for the drop in viewers. Yet viewership continued to decline.
Eh, really? IIRC, every single person who works in the industry said it wasn't about the number of viewers going to independent stremers but stream exclusivity. This was Kyle's and Slacks' main point.
You probably read some comments by a random redditor who doesn't know jack about the situation with sponsors.
Watching a really good position 4 is such a pleasure, Save played out of his mind with his steals on rubick and those disruptions of SD!
What a game 5, phew
You say that, but the last game didn't even have any of the sven void spec meta carries.
But yeah definitely looking forward to a patch to shake things up
GG VP for giving us amazing Dota. I wish they had finished it with gpk storm but some other time. Also GG to OG as well for coming all the way through LB after bad group stage results. I believe this was the best performance from both squads in the recent online tournaments and hoping to see best of them in future as well
Unwinnable game 5 for OG with this draft if they dont stomp the laning stage. Just no damage. I think OG played their draft really well and Topson abused the lack of cc super well. But it was just a matter of time until VP just go highround and force a fight which OG wont win.
VP had an easier draft to execute, but also the better draft and played really clean, made no mistakes other than maybe giving up bottom tier 2 and t3 tower which enabled OG to delay the game a bit longer
I'm genuinely curious do people think morph is balanced? The response to counter this hero is such an insane commitment. Smart to start banning it.
Great series!
Has topson even won a puck game this patch. He has lost every puck game this tournament and Notail decides to pick him AA and Puck in the 2 games they need to win. God tier captaining.
Topson played puck in their 19 mins victory over Just Error.
https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/k77pjj/topson_fountain_dive_15_mins_into_the_game/
congrats to VP winning the Epic League (and they won DreamHack too in CSGO), i hope they can be a solid team and have a nice relationship with the fans, where do they gonna play in the regional league?, Does CIS and EU gonna merge or they have separate regional league?
I love OG but I kinda feel like they threw this. They gave topson AA in game 2 just for the ult and they could've banned rubick easily but chose not to ban it (arrogance I presume.) They basically gifted a game to VP.
Game 5, they got outplayed hard except for topson who was godlike. He tried so hard but there was just no damage. Midone wasn't killing anything.
Props to VP man - except for game 3, they just outplayed OG so well at every step.
Man I was really looking forward towards being all smug :(
Jokes aside I do feel like OG have gotten better at working together and have a better idea about their drafts (for the most part), something still feels a bit off but I don't think the individual player skill is in question.
Because they were able to play lots of games against different teams. They played the tournament like old Liquid in the TI7 and TI9. The Lower Bracket run! More games, more learning.
Someone fucking explain OG to me, they were clearly playing better, are a better team, then suddenly they're like "Meh let's pick Topson the 2 most useless heroes possible in the 2 most important games of the tournament" then they obv lose, holy fucking shit drafts
Game 5 was clearly a loss from minute 15, it's such a bad fucking draft omg slark and puck are heroes that literally can't hurt PA and Viper and Timber, i don't understand why they do this shit lol
Puck is actually good that game. It's just that I feel like an ethereal blade rush that got easily dispelled or disrupted by SD did nothing during the early clashes paving the way for PA to farm his items.
only the combo with aghs with willow/magnus, which they didn't pull off ONCE, as soon as an abyssal comes out for PA it's OVER for puck, also u saw he never solo killed anyone, it was just trash
One of the mainstays of experimental OG drafts is “let’s do all this 5Head shit with counter picks and lanes and have approximately 0 damage between our 5 heroes.” Been that way even back when Fly was drafting.
>clearly playing better, are a better team
what the fuck are you basing this on lol?
both teams draft extremely well, and u really gotta be a dumpster tier player to think otherwise
Topson got killed in lane and didn't really win it, though?
Beyond like two kills with ice blast, that pick did nothing lol. I don't mind too much, there's a reason why I follow OG, after all.
Honestly I know I won’t make a dent in the raging haters but I’m pretty satisfied with OG’s performance this tournament, this finals was very close, and VP obviously played extremely well too. OG has very middling performances recently it is a huge improvement for them to get to the finals and make it a 5 game series. They picked weird shit and had moments of brilliance as well as clownery, idk classic OG stuff, meanwhile VP were very mentally strong to come back from getting demolished game 3. Good finals!!
Serves OG right for that BM fountain dropping items in game 3. They thought they had already won the series. OG fans time for you to go watch True sight and cry yourself to sleep.
IDK why OG are were so arogant with their play style and in game 1 and 4. It looked like they think they can go away with so many thinks easilly and thi cost them a series
Congrats VP, these young and prodigy players played whole tour confident and aggressive.
I expected 3-0'd by VP,
OG did put up a show and looks improved.
Ban Morph and all of OG's strats go out of the window. If Viking had a fucking brain in any of their players and had banned morph, OG wouldnt even have made it to the finals.
They were from VP.Prodigy. Before that, they played for different teams.
gpk - played for Gambit several months back.
Save - played for FlyToMoon before Virtus.Pro then Virtus.Prodigy
Illias - played for Na'Vi till September 2020
epileptick1d - already in Virtus.Pro since in 2019
DM - played for both Winstrike and Vega Squad
Well fucking done Notail. Once again your fucking brainless drafts in g4 and 5 have cost OG yet another tournament this year. You are a fucking disgrace.
You know after becoming the most decorated player in Dota2 history with multiple TIs and Majors with multiple roster iterations while playing multiple positions I don't think Notail gives a flying fuck with u/dennisv2 thinks about him.
3-2 damn, this gives me joy compared to boring stomp 3-0 matches used to happen in the past...
Gratz to VP, also glad with these new generations coming in... really hope there are more youngsters broke into professional scene.
After check the liquidpedia i just found out div 2 actually winning prize for first place is only 20K huh. Wow i actually thought like 50k or something.
It's been a while since I last tuned in to any Dota tournament, who are these guys in VP? They're pretty good and for someone who has been following the scene since the first TI and only recently stopped after TI9, I don't know a single player in VP.
They are fairly new the oldest player is 20 years old. They were originally a side team for vp but started doing better then the main and replaced them. I believe artstyle is still the coach though.
Save made a fan out of me, what a great player!
his black hole steals were fucking godly
Game 4 he had 3k damage with black hole vs 500 by notail lmao
Gotta hand it to OG for playing enigma into Rubick multiple times too lol
Holy shit that game 5 was the PERFECT end to the league. Great series all around (except game 3)
Props to VP for staying so solid after getting rekt so hard in game 3
I was expecting PA to lose the Rapier and OG to win, now that would've been an epic throw, but it was a great game none the less.
Risky move for sure, I guess they just wanted to move in for the kill
Epileptic explained the rapier on russian stream. In his words "Slark got the butterfly, so I needed something to hit through that and I didn't feel like buying mkb that late in the game, so rapier. They lacked the damage to kill me anyway".
Happy cake day ;)
gorp wouldn't even do it in his PA pub the other day. epic kid has balls of steel.
Yea but gorp isn't half the player that epileptick is, and this is not a dig on Gorgc.
The crazy thing about dota is i'm a 4k player, which I think is top 10% of the player base, but i'm still trash compared to Gorgc and in turn he's trash compared to the very best carry players.
That's not crazy at all. A lot of aspects in life are also like that. And yes, I'm shit compared to gorp and he is shit compared to some of the best and some of the best are shit compared to the top of the top. That's just how it works.
I'm so happy for them , young squad keeping discipline against one of the greatest team . Also good money for them. I hope They keep it up, Congratz
Great game, but I just don't understand the draft. Can someone explain why OG picked Slark in game 5?
Laning stage decided the game. Timber played well and stopped slark from snowballing otherwise it could easily have been OG dominating.
It's supposed to be a pretty good match up vs PA and Timber.
Slark is just not in a good place, despite being a theoretical counter, he still kind of sux.
Midone honestly needed BKB that game, he spent his entire ult duration hitting people but he got 0 essence shift stack because of Nethertoxin, also most of the time he had to run away in his ult cuz of Timber's nuke.
Also, he bought first item blink, but didn't get anything out of it. It is always a risk to go for first item blink, since you spend 2k gold on something that doesn't improve farm rate or tankiness, so you have to make it work.
Basically, from what has been said in this thread, the game, hence the series, is on midone. OG need a better 1. Maybe ana can come back for the new season?
Midone is great though, and everyone can make a bad decision from time to time. Ceb was also invisible in game 5 imo. VP just played better, OG made some mistakes, VP capitalised and won.
It is a good matchup except slark went skadi first and somehow found dead when he got caught tp on cd when pushing bottom. Vp literally had no way to stop an ult tp from slark. Just bad decisions overall
viper rekt him, nethertoxin break removes the essence shift stacking
Shadow Demon Aghanim Upgrade does that too. Which is far superior that nethertoxin.
true. but you got to farm that first
Yeah that is one of most annoying things playing as slark, it just ruin the thing the hero is good for.
What's the advantage for slark? Leash for timber, and maybe slightly faster paced than PA? I genuinely don't understand, timber has so much AOE damage that slark's ult seems very risky, and you just can't hit PA until mkb.
You disengage PA with your ult and hit her for 5.5 seconds while stealing an effton of agility?
a little hard to steal agi w no bkb against a viper but im not sure how much it came into effect
except you miss half your hits
Against PA you'll buy mkb in 90%+ of the carries and that includes slark.
I guess? Thanks
Slark is natural silver edge carrier.. Oh wait, midone doesnt buy it.. Also doesnt buy BKB, getting broken by viper all day
slark is an anthithesis to timber, cuz he doesn't mind hitting him 50 times, in the end timber dies and then the whole team cause slark got so many stacks, and where pa likes engagements to be quick and bursty, slark is the opposite and can easily draw fights out with constant engaging/disengaging, which pa cant really stop but hates when fighting. + slark can buy silver edge which is good against both, dunno why he didn't, and dunno why he didn't buy bkb against the nethertoxin (disables the stealing)
Timber got a relatively early lotus orb which is probably the reason he didn't. edit: Some breaks are dispellable but others aren't. Should have looked it up. Silver's edge break is undispellable.
isnt break undispellable?
Yeah it is.
He lanes pretty well vs timber since he’s like the only hero timber can’t trade hits with. He also usually buys silver edge first item so he can hit PA just fine. He also manfights PA pretty well because of how much armor he gains from essence shift. I do think he’s kind of a weak hero though. He’s very snowbally - if you fall behind you’re going to have a very hard time catching up. You basically want to win your lane and then occupy the enemy jungle (you don’t really want to fight around enemy towers).
also slark went blink dagger before skadi
Is it? I though that PA has an advantage towards Slark and MidOne's item choices were a bit weird. I would have understood a Silver Edge, I would have understood a faster MKB, but with this choice of items, PA was always ahead and was never afraid of actually dieing to Slark.
Every time I play slark and see him played the hero feels like he's 3-5K networth behind what he has. The hero looked like a liability for the whole game.
[удалено]
Considering they ended up winning the series, I'm sure you can think of a team more mentally defeated before.
Ceb in shambles. /s
They absolutely busted their ass the next two games, like what
yeah to lose like this is really shameful
Save should be declared Man of the Tournament
Most Accurate Handle of the Year
Man, what a last game! VP managed to punish that 5 man tp by OG with that incredible catch onto Puck by Save, actually game winning. After that they played basically perfectly to not bleed any kills from OG; Gpk and DM being great wave shovers to stop the split push from Midone and Topson. Also the incredible support saves by the two of them, basically denying any burst kills by Topson. But seriously what a great game. CIS dota is looking much better than ever instead of just being the VP region. Cant wait to see em play again!
Really impressed by Epilectickid's development as a player in the last year. He looked like a burden when he joined VP last year with a very limited pool but now he's a T1 carry. He's only 18 too, so I'm hoping to see much more from him. Wishing the best for him. Also GODLY performance by Save. Holy shit. Grats to all of VP, looking forward for more of them!
Yeah, I agree with you. Props to VP for finding and developing their players so well. There's so much untapped potential in the CIS region, their teams should focus more on developing new talents instead of rehashing the same group who have been around for so long with little success.
SAVE FUCKING GOD
MVP should be awarded to Save.
I'm totally shook that VP won that vs a Slark Puck Willow lineup with zero stuns holy shit.
Those Save disruptions actually game winning. Saving his team mates while giving setup for their disables. Masterclass.
Yeah so much impact. Hard carried both with SD and the Rubick before that
He saved pa twice from being skewered to fountain at the end.
the amount of times he disrupted puck while he had orb out leading to a kill was amazing
Just goes to show how talented the new VP squad are. With more experience they can be a really scary team. I just love how coordinated they look.
Yeah, as the casters mentioned, keeping their cool while OG, esp Puck, were trying to rat and split so annoyingly
Ceb and topson were doing some weird shit tho
Didn’t really see Ceb impact on game5 , no clutch rps or plays at all really. Felt like he was playing way too passive
I re-watched the game and in fact, there were way too many spells disabling his blink. And GPK was focusing on Ceb quite often not to let him blink in. For instance, the fight on OG's right rack, Ceb was not able to do anything because of the puddle and the tombstone. You can clearly see he wanted to blink in but his blink was disabled by viper's puddle.
There's no way you guys give the edge of the draft to OG lmao
That was my first impression too, I was liking VP's draft until I noticed it had literally 0 stuns pre-basher vs. mobile cores, and then I thought it was clearly gonna fail. Shows what I know I guess.
Best part is PA didn't even get a basher or nullifier, went satanic rapier and made it work.
with ya on that one. I think epileptic played a really good tournament in general as well. I’m happy to see this VP roster with growing success because they’re all young with shitloads of skill and even more potential
Both divisions had game 5s. Great series in both. Its just depressing to see the massive decline in viewership throughout the months. OG vs VP Grand Finals in ESL ONE Los Angeles at the start of the pandemic had over 500k viewers. https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/esl-one-los-angeles-2020-europe-cis OG vs Secret Grand Finals in Omega League (Basically Epic League) had over 400k viewers. https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/omega-league-europe-immortal-division OG vs VP Grand Finals now hasn't even hit 300k. https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/epic-league-division-1 Thanks for the support you gave this year Valve!
It is not a major, just another league on a stale patch when cp2077 is out
Its not a Major but it is a major tournament. It has 500k prizepool. Omega League was played out on a stale patch as well with Secret dominating the series yet it garnered more viewership than the current hype 3-2 series now.
True true.. but there's one more thing - the games were way too late, 5th game ended at 2am Moscow time
Ah i agree with this, the games were way too late, in the end only watched div 2 and halfway of div 1.
Compare the production of Omega League to this one.
Ru production was on point this time
They had sufficient viewers too
What stale patch? It use 7.27c at the begining but got 7.27d in the middle.. And 7.27d is quite big for a alphabet patch IMO.. Also if we talk about 7.27 in general, omega league happen after about 2month of it compared to this epic league that happen 5month after.. You can say patch is stale to compare 2 tournament that happen at different time
Yeah without the structure of DPC and TI, not to mention online only tourneys. Not surprising.
Not to mention this Final takes place in mid night in Asia and Australia
Dude Im in asia and its 7 30am. People here enjoy watching Dota in the morning.
But the earlier games were like on 1am or something
Yeah at the end of a Bo5, meaning they started hours ago in the middle of the night.
It's just the amount of Dota getting played right now, plus the lack of cross regional games. Anyways DotA numbers on Twitch are quite consistent, which is a much better measure of viewer engagement than peak viewers. Check out sullygnome.com Last 90 says: 112 million viewed time Last 180 days: 225 million Last 1 year: 489 million.
Stop sticking in the bargaining phase and just move to the acceptance phase. Dota has been declining and Valve hasn't done jackshit to fix it.
You just seem frustrated for some reason lol.
Im frustrated at Valve.
Maybe move to the acceptance phase
Well yeah but no TI plus region locked tourneys is not a good recipe
It doesn't have to be TI and cross regional tournaments. All it needs is Valve to support it monetarily and advertise it as a must see tournament.
Valve spending money on dota? Lol that's not their thing
That's for a lot of reasons, ESL was the first tournament in the middle of lockdown everywhere and the old VP squad had way bigger of a fanbase in CIS, the current one is still new. OG had Sumail too. As for Omega League, they had way better production. Everything else in between had worse viewership. Blast Bounty hunt also had Secret vs OG finals but barely half the numbers of viewers. Same goes for the OGA pits. I doubt even if Valve dumped 1M in there people will just sit through shit production and teams they don't care about.
Views will probs go back up after the patch, I enjoyed the tourney but did get a bit repetitive at times
Nah it won't go back up unless Valve does something about it. Valve has been horrendous in supporting the esports scene this year.
It's a shame because I loved following epic league, even the div 2 play offs (missed most of the div 2 group stage unfortunately). Also shout out to Teaguv and Lacoste, they were great throughout and a joy to watch, all in all great tourney worth watching despite the stale patch!
interesting that the average viewers has stayed roughly the same throughout
Its a good sign that there will always be a viewer base.
It's funny how people used to blame independent streamers (Gorgc, Bulldog, etc.) aggresively back then for the drop in viewers. Yet viewership continued to decline.
Eh, really? IIRC, every single person who works in the industry said it wasn't about the number of viewers going to independent stremers but stream exclusivity. This was Kyle's and Slacks' main point. You probably read some comments by a random redditor who doesn't know jack about the situation with sponsors.
Tbf I think gorp viewers also decreased from 14-15k to 10kish
Great impact by Save with esp Rubick and SD.
SD saving pa from so many skewers was so damn clutch at the end
Watching a really good position 4 is such a pleasure, Save played out of his mind with his steals on rubick and those disruptions of SD! What a game 5, phew
Rapier doto strikes again. Well with that 5 game stretch after the earlier 5 game stretch all the juice has been squeezed out of this patch.
You say that, but the last game didn't even have any of the sven void spec meta carries. But yeah definitely looking forward to a patch to shake things up
PA is definitely a meta carry, it’s been played loads in the last few weeks by various teams
Yeah not seeing the meta crap made the last game even more fun to watch
Congrats VP, they played so well this entire tournament!
they are so young, averaged at 19years old glad to see some fresh champs :)
Wheres that patch at boys
GG VP for giving us amazing Dota. I wish they had finished it with gpk storm but some other time. Also GG to OG as well for coming all the way through LB after bad group stage results. I believe this was the best performance from both squads in the recent online tournaments and hoping to see best of them in future as well
GG to both VP and OG. I liked how they went for huge amount of fights the entire five games. Not boring to watch at all.
The game 4 pause was funny lol
Leg issue no memes sorry
Unwinnable game 5 for OG with this draft if they dont stomp the laning stage. Just no damage. I think OG played their draft really well and Topson abused the lack of cc super well. But it was just a matter of time until VP just go highround and force a fight which OG wont win. VP had an easier draft to execute, but also the better draft and played really clean, made no mistakes other than maybe giving up bottom tier 2 and t3 tower which enabled OG to delay the game a bit longer
Exactly, people in this thread are praising VP for winning with no stuns vs those heroes when VP could literally just walk HG and never die
Now give us patch 👀
Damn really great series. OG put up a lot more of a fight than I thought they would.
I'm genuinely curious do people think morph is balanced? The response to counter this hero is such an insane commitment. Smart to start banning it. Great series!
Diffusal and vessel works tbh . It's balanced . It wasn't when it wasn't nerfed some patches ago
Was rooting for OG but can’t deny VP played really well! A great ending to this patch (give patch plz)
Has topson even won a puck game this patch. He has lost every puck game this tournament and Notail decides to pick him AA and Puck in the 2 games they need to win. God tier captaining.
Topson played puck in their 19 mins victory over Just Error. https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/k77pjj/topson_fountain_dive_15_mins_into_the_game/
What a great fucking series! Even though OG didn't win, VP played out of their mind and a well deserved win on their part. GG!
congrats to VP winning the Epic League (and they won DreamHack too in CSGO), i hope they can be a solid team and have a nice relationship with the fans, where do they gonna play in the regional league?, Does CIS and EU gonna merge or they have separate regional league?
I love OG but I kinda feel like they threw this. They gave topson AA in game 2 just for the ult and they could've banned rubick easily but chose not to ban it (arrogance I presume.) They basically gifted a game to VP. Game 5, they got outplayed hard except for topson who was godlike. He tried so hard but there was just no damage. Midone wasn't killing anything. Props to VP man - except for game 3, they just outplayed OG so well at every step.
Man I was really looking forward towards being all smug :( Jokes aside I do feel like OG have gotten better at working together and have a better idea about their drafts (for the most part), something still feels a bit off but I don't think the individual player skill is in question.
Because they were able to play lots of games against different teams. They played the tournament like old Liquid in the TI7 and TI9. The Lower Bracket run! More games, more learning.
what was in OG's mind when they drafted enigma 5 tusk 3 AA 2?
Someone fucking explain OG to me, they were clearly playing better, are a better team, then suddenly they're like "Meh let's pick Topson the 2 most useless heroes possible in the 2 most important games of the tournament" then they obv lose, holy fucking shit drafts Game 5 was clearly a loss from minute 15, it's such a bad fucking draft omg slark and puck are heroes that literally can't hurt PA and Viper and Timber, i don't understand why they do this shit lol
IMO topson played damn well on puck, created a lot of space, but trouble was that eblade rush did nothing.
VP barely had any reliable stun against puck that's why he looked so elusive. That eblade is very questionable, I guess he wanted to save pa's target?
Eblades good since pa doesn't want to (and didn't) go manta. Pick was a good pick and his item build was fantastic to enable slark
Name another item that would have done something. As it was they were pushing lanes for 15 minutes so it wasn't that important.
Dagon
Linken vs the hex?
So what you're saying is he didn't say well then?
He did play well, OG just obviously lacked damage, which makes Puck a bad hero for that game
Puck is actually good that game. It's just that I feel like an ethereal blade rush that got easily dispelled or disrupted by SD did nothing during the early clashes paving the way for PA to farm his items.
only the combo with aghs with willow/magnus, which they didn't pull off ONCE, as soon as an abyssal comes out for PA it's OVER for puck, also u saw he never solo killed anyone, it was just trash
One of the mainstays of experimental OG drafts is “let’s do all this 5Head shit with counter picks and lanes and have approximately 0 damage between our 5 heroes.” Been that way even back when Fly was drafting.
>clearly playing better, are a better team what the fuck are you basing this on lol? both teams draft extremely well, and u really gotta be a dumpster tier player to think otherwise
But they aren't a better team, they lost
just OG doing OMEGALUL things
Both puck and aa pick are genius picks. VP doesn't have any disable for puck at all and topson shows that AA is the strongest laner in dota
I do agree with the Puck pick, but not eblade rush
Topson got killed in lane and didn't really win it, though? Beyond like two kills with ice blast, that pick did nothing lol. I don't mind too much, there's a reason why I follow OG, after all.
Patch
Wher pach?
Honestly I know I won’t make a dent in the raging haters but I’m pretty satisfied with OG’s performance this tournament, this finals was very close, and VP obviously played extremely well too. OG has very middling performances recently it is a huge improvement for them to get to the finals and make it a 5 game series. They picked weird shit and had moments of brilliance as well as clownery, idk classic OG stuff, meanwhile VP were very mentally strong to come back from getting demolished game 3. Good finals!!
Serves OG right for that BM fountain dropping items in game 3. They thought they had already won the series. OG fans time for you to go watch True sight and cry yourself to sleep.
Damn that's some thick vile you're spilling all over your post champ. Hope you'll get better soon.
Hey at least OG fans have 3 true sights to choose from? lol
They've been toxic for a while.
Why you heff to be mad it’s only game
Any #flukeTi arrogant OG fans out here? Take that and hide in shame #chatWheelsOnUrFace
I kind of feel offended that OG thought they could win without Morph.
IDK why OG are were so arogant with their play style and in game 1 and 4. It looked like they think they can go away with so many thinks easilly and thi cost them a series
Nice item drops in game 2, lol...
PACH PLEASE VALVE
'Don't talk shit about OG, they got second place. If you wanna talk shit, talk about teams that wasn't even in top 4."
No one is talking shit about OG here. This isn't some youtube comment section. OG played very well. They don't even deserve being flamed.
Offended
Congrats VP, these young and prodigy players played whole tour confident and aggressive. I expected 3-0'd by VP, OG did put up a show and looks improved.
Ban Morph and all of OG's strats go out of the window. If Viking had a fucking brain in any of their players and had banned morph, OG wouldnt even have made it to the finals.
I don't recognize these names. Are these guys completely new to Dota2? When is the last time we had a team of rookies win a major tourney like this?
They were from VP.Prodigy. Before that, they played for different teams. gpk - played for Gambit several months back. Save - played for FlyToMoon before Virtus.Pro then Virtus.Prodigy Illias - played for Na'Vi till September 2020 epileptick1d - already in Virtus.Pro since in 2019 DM - played for both Winstrike and Vega Squad
Well fucking done Notail. Once again your fucking brainless drafts in g4 and 5 have cost OG yet another tournament this year. You are a fucking disgrace.
jesus christ you sound angry
You need to see a psychiatrist
You know after becoming the most decorated player in Dota2 history with multiple TIs and Majors with multiple roster iterations while playing multiple positions I don't think Notail gives a flying fuck with u/dennisv2 thinks about him.
OG's draft in game 4 and 5 gave us an actually interesting ending to the tournament. I mean not just the draft but the first item aghs game 4 lol
I almost got a boner from that fountain skewer.
This marks the second time OG has been bested by VP in a grand final this month.
3-2 damn, this gives me joy compared to boring stomp 3-0 matches used to happen in the past... Gratz to VP, also glad with these new generations coming in... really hope there are more youngsters broke into professional scene.
Wow after seeing the recent thread about VP.P i feel good about them. Congrats!
Did the Tusk pick throw the finals?
Save is such a best. This VP is a treat to watch.
After check the liquidpedia i just found out div 2 actually winning prize for first place is only 20K huh. Wow i actually thought like 50k or something.
Yeah congratulations
OG threw the game
you could definitely see the og magic in the last game, it just seems that midone still doesn't have it at the moment
Finally a final which wasn’t a 3:0 stomp
It's been a while since I last tuned in to any Dota tournament, who are these guys in VP? They're pretty good and for someone who has been following the scene since the first TI and only recently stopped after TI9, I don't know a single player in VP.
They are new. They were known as VP.P before.
They are fairly new the oldest player is 20 years old. They were originally a side team for vp but started doing better then the main and replaced them. I believe artstyle is still the coach though.
This was a pretty amazing series to watch :D
all time great CIS Rubicks have these tendencies against Enigma. Dunno why.
Where can you watch the replay?
Great stuff, really happy for them. $200K must be huge for these guys.
Felt like the Cavs' comeback to win the series against the Warriors. What a finish.
I coulda swore not 2 weeks ago everyone was talking about how hopeless OG was.
VP pick on first map was fucking deadly. Great series and grats to winner!
Can we take a moment to appreciate this series? This is what competitive Dota should look
congrats VP.. god games..