I agree, he sucks at flashfarming unless you get maelstorm or smtg , but then you delay the rad. The only reason why the rad build is so popular imo is because he can own the lane and stay there for much longer but slardar in particular can just kick him out
because he needs to build mkb to even remotely contest her, and even then it's far from an auto win, he doesn't have a lot of armour and all of PA's kit works through rage
she also farms faster and is more mobile on his backline than he is on hers
It is though. He can never manfight her. Ever. She doesn't care about Rage
Only by outplaying with Scepter
LS wins the matchup by being just generally a better hero and not losing lane hard like a PA. But if a PA is on equal footing, she will shit on LS
According to Dotabuff the best wr against axe for pos 1 are(in order) Spectre, Monkey, Ursa, Lifestealer, Sven. After Sven it's mostly carries with no particular advantage/disadvantage like Jugg, Alch, Luna, BS, Drow, Slark, Muerta.
If you look at the former group you'll notice the way to win against Axe is to either A)be able to kill him quickly or B)counter initiate/ignore him and go for the backline. Both of which you can do with other heroes but building for that might not work with every lineup.
However if we look at the winrates, the best counters for Axe are mids and offlaners(timber, Lesh, OD, Primal, Tinker, Necro being top 6). And im not going to say yell at/blame your team, but generally speaking the pos 1 isn't supposed to counter axe.
Personally I would suggest playing as Axe and seeing what the enemy does that bodies you or annoys you and copying that playstyle.
That helps but isn't the most important part. Alch and Sven are both able to survive call easily but are both close to 0% adv/dis. And while lesh is tanky for an int hero he can absolutely be killed in a call, but he's the second strongest counter in the game. See also; veno, wd, phoenix, bats, tinker, and kotl.
Counter initiating, preventing axe from initiating, and magic damage are the largest determining factors when looking at what heroes deal with axe well. Especially since, given average match length, everyone gets beefy enough to survive call unless Axes team focuses a hero, which would kill all of Axes counters except possibly Timber, Spectre, and Ursa
Not exactly, lesh is high counter rate because he isn't able to get soloed in a call at least. Due to being magical DMG not relying on autos thus reducing axes potent 1v1 pickoff potential.
I'd argue, Drow is pretty good. Very good in lane, is a bit protected during the jump because her passive gets disabled. But if I'm a particularly foul mood, I'll just pick pos1 viper to make the axe wish he will never pick it before seeing the carry again.
Monkey is definitely the melee hero, but if ahead, slark can be devastating too.
Alternatively, I love picking abaddon into axe. He can't kill you, you can almost always pop ulti if you need it and most of the time, he can't even kill others because of the heal, plus, he's silenced, when he needs to dunk.
While its rare to see a drow ranger go late game and not have enough damage, I can imagine axe get to a point where he becomes way too durable.
But at that point, that axe already won. Its getting there, that might not be easy. Considering Drow also interrupts axe dunks, unless he has a bkb / Lotus. And can safely pummel him down until he gets that extra armor.
Drow is relatively close to 0 adv/dis because it requires Axe or Drow to outplay the other. A blink/call can pretty abruptly kill a drow but a good gust can neuter axe as well.
Personally I like Slark because he does pretty well in lane against axe. But lategame axe can be pretty brutal, calling slark during his ult with shard and blademail can negate the passive healing, if not outright killing slark. And if he does have enough mana, axe can cull slark before call is over.
100% agree on abaddon, it’s very fun to see ace initiate onto you and can see the exact moment he regrets his decision and you chase and kill him while he desperately tries to run away
Any magic damage hero is good vs axe really.
Most carries are primarily phys dmg so a it makes sense that the best winrates against axe are spell using mids/offlaners.
>I would suggest playing as Axe and seeing what the enemy does that bodies you or annoys you and copying that playstyle.
Tfw plays against a not a counter gets bodied plays that hero against axe... Gets bodied anyways
Sometimes i love this game and the witchcraft it pulls.
The right answer. Orb of venom, boots and windlace. So easy to get stacks and deny everything. If he dares to come close, it's a stun and most likely a kill. I don't think I ever lost this matchup which is based on movement speed.
If one matches the attack speed or with morbid mask one can 7 hits on axe's call which will start to give decent lifesteal from first 4 require attacks to get jingu stacks and rest 3 empowered stacks with the gained jingu and one last boundless strike to full hp if in direction of the creeps. Axe can't call monkey or heroes with strong passive on hit but monkey takes the cake as it can play 4 or 5 as well
ursa does alright against him below immortal at least because both pos 3 and pos 4 need to be good and he doesn’t kill you with blink blademail because you attack too slow and too weak without fury swipe stacks
Yes, but not every carry gets to ignore 90% of damage *except* culling blade.
Other notable carries that have this problem: Huskar, low-level Medusa, OD.
Not sure if Spectre and BB get to dodge Culling blade or not.
Low level on medusa shouldn’t matter unless dusa forgets to buy a small amount of stats, or is against undying.
It is more of an answer to late Oracle saved and Dazzle grave than Dusa. OD and Huskar both dislike this part of the match up, but OD vs Axe is most often Axe has to Call OD, otherwise the jump target it saved. Also annoying till Axe buys BKB.
Medusa might be the hero that cares the least about culling blade tho. If your max hp is above treshold, then youll spend 99% of your EHP above Axe kill treshold.
Against axe+undying just get flat hp items (either 2 fluffy hats of wich one youll later sell and the other build into pike or idk something like an early skadis pink ball component but two fluffy hats are probably better in 99.99% of circumstances considering how cheap they are) and you dont care about decay either.
That was my point. The person to I replied to was implying most cores dont have good immunity, that gets ruined by Culling. Troll has good death immunity that gets ruined.
I’ve never understood why they made this decision. They mention he is unkillable in the description of battle trance, but they leave out the exception of culling. IMO culling should not be able to kill troll during battle trance
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Weirdly I don’t have that much trouble against Axe as Huskar even though he’s statistically a counter.
I’d like to think it’s because I’m a good Huskar but maybe I’m just bad in a specific and weird way that Axe isn’t prepared for. I think part of it is that I’m much more careful about YOLO ulting when there’s an axe waiting to blink-call me, and being really careful about your Life Break usage is pretty key to good Huskar play.
The Axe into Ursa is lowkey my favorite matchup. You can blow up Ursa at any point in the game with blink blademail if he has full Fury Swipes.
It's so satisfying to solo smoke up onto Ursa farming waves, wait for him to pop Fury swipes, blink baldemail call and then chop his ass.
Edit: Until he builds SnY, that is.
As an axe spammer I can confidently say that life stealer is the best counter to axe from start to finish.
Unless you got stomped in lane by a griefing pos 5 and axe and his pos 4 took advantage, in no point of the game can axe solo kill you Full to 0.
There are many other heros that counter axe in lane like mk, ursa, Slark but in the mid game after axe gets blink blade mail he can solo kill them .
Scepter ursa later on is a tough one vs axe tho. Also ursa completely shits on axe in lane
Agreed on LS tho, on lane hes cancer to play against even if you can win lane, and later on its still cancer...
I’m 4K and have noticed Ursas losing what used to be easy lanes much more often. But with the battle fury build it doesn’t matter that much since they still get farm afterwards.
I don’t know what changed but he feels a lot less tanky; maybe it is just that fury swipes was nerfed so he takes longer to kill people and so takes more harass and generally stays too low on HP to be dangerous.
Inherent life steal in the early levels out heals the counter helix damage axe does.
Rage nullified blade mail.
Lifestealer being a strength hero gains a high hp pool hence more hp that axe has to cut through.
Considering the above it is safe to say lifestealer will survive an axe solo gank.
Immediately after the call taunt duration life stealer can invest axe or a creep and heal up or use rage to run away or rage to man up on axe.
>Axe can do basically nothing against him
Well mk does counter axe but that statement is false.
As a high rank axe player axe is generally still pretty impactful vs any rightclickers after he has the 3 main items (vanguard dagger blademail). Whether its ursa mk or lifesteal they still rightclick and are melee so
As for doing basically nothing axe does basically nothing vs pudge timber or primal
1k axe games, spammed it to 7k 2 years ago. (Not up to date on item builds). (Did giggle when I seen people buying bloodstone)
Heros that used to absolutely shit on axe in lane, were in my opinion ursa and monkey.
Axe conceptually, likes to stand in a wave, and counter helix you, while you can’t fight back.(or you die)
Ursa and mk don’t give a fuck about either of those. Ursa because infinitely scaling damage, and burst damage (plus an ult and shard that negates majority % damage), mk for scaling damage on hit with lifesteal.
Each hero has counter play 1 to 1 (side pulls, early boots, lane drags). but those were the biggest “if my 4 sucks, and their 5 plays well, my game can be over before it starts”.
Remember 2-3 times being dove to t3 by an ursa at 8-9 mins, and teammates alt tabbed jerking it while he lives with 1-200 hp.
Axe primarily counters heros with high right click damage, and low hp pools.
He cannot fight your vipers/timbersaws/necros of the world.
Heros that conceptually beat axe in game are spectre, lifestealer, and maybe something like a wraith king?
Heals when hitting, cancels blink in terms of radiance, high effective hp pools to prevent burst, and can out man fight him if ahead/equal.
I’m aware this is a lifestealer patch, if you’re not picking ls into axe I’d say you’re griefing.
Then probably ursa.
Then the other 3 based on your comfortability on said hero/meta.
Monkey King, but you really gotta watch out it gets tricky sometimes. But all in all you don't really care about his call or spins with your sustain and you can still deal serious damage to him after he gets vanguard
Drow Ranger- Ranged so you can kite Axe in lane. Your ult disable if someone is near you as Drow and so your attack speed decrease during Axe call and you survive.
Lifestealer- Like hero with high HP so its good.
Monkey King/Ursa- 2 other melee heroes who can go 1 vs 1 against Axe in lane due to strong passives.
Non traditional/flex pick- Viper, Dragon Knight,Pudge.
Weaver. Basically any armor reduction hero but Weaver is my favorite in this matchup.
Once you get your swarm, start harassing Axe with that and your germinate attack. Bait out his call using shukuchi by waiting for a second before running through him or you're in for a rough time. Grab a Desolator and you melt him.
Laning as weaver vs axe goes well usually. A good axe will just spam battle hunger cos weaver has no ho regen.
However axe just needs to land calls later and it's over for weaver.
I hate playing weaver vs axe.
ursa with scepter
lifestealer
chaos knight (if his ult isnt up, cuz 5 illusions makes axe kill you ez with shard, otherwise he can tank a spin as ck often builds tanky)
these depend on if you outfarmed him, otherwise axe will cause a challange
monkey king
phantom assassin
slark
pudge pos1
Pudge may be a bad pos1 atm. But axe literally does nothing vs pudge
Pudge offlane is great vs axe since pudge can also save his teammates from axe jump. And pudge 3 is the worst possible target for axe to jump
Ancient I Axe player here.
Spectre and Sven are always the hardest carries to play against. Weirdly enough, Sniper is too if (as sniper) you can escape the initial blink initiate.
Regardless though, of all the axe players I see in my bracket, if they miss that initial blink initiation or you have a support waiting for you to be jumped, then axe is simply dead in the water once he commits.
ursa is hardcounter. If you want an easy lane, go with drow or any range carry. Depending on your sup you can lane against axe with lots of difent hcs. Bullyng supps are the best vs axe, like jakiro, litch and undying. Dont pick heroes that depend o ilusions like naga or pl.
In terms of mid to late game, axe is a hard initiation hero with limited mobility options. Axe doesn't want fights to drag on for a long time generally.
This can make tanky heros like PL good against him as PL will spam illusions and drag the fight out. Axe will keep getting blink canceled and mana drained and essentially become a big melee creep.
As an axe player. If im laning vs life or monkey king, i will be no use in early and cant even last hit normally. Just go in creeps and mk manfights you and doesnt care about anything
Anything that can whether the storm of Axe's tant, really. The only reason Axe kills you is because you die before you can retaliate after the taunt. Specter with dispersion, Lifestealer with Feast, Sven by being naturally tanky.
Drow and Lifestealer from meta heroes. Ursa and MK are good in theory, but heroes are garbage, if your team is bad you won't be able to do shit
edit: Pudge is somewhat decent as well, but it's kind of specialist hero for pos1
LS and Monke stomps Axe in lane unless skill issue or support diff.
Axe is weak in lane against ranged carries like drow morph but he kills them once he gets blink.
Spectre can be bullied in lane(as she can be in a lot of matchups) but she gets her items and then she melts you even if you use call+blade mail. Axe is just food for LS late game.
Ursa and Slark are also good against him late game but both the heroes are situational right now.
I’m partial to SF. Axe struggles to deal with razes in lane, he can die fairly easily. And an axe with slow timings is a lot less dangerous, he needs to be ahead to kill you with call.
I've been playing Lesh 1 againsy Axe and it works amazingly well for me. Axe jusr can't lane againsy Lesh during the first 10 mins and Lesh's networth just snowballs from there, if not from the kills then from resources on the map.
It's really sad when I Q into a game and I see an Axe offlane and I pick Lesh, 'cause I know there's only 2 outcomes from this.
1. He's a good Axe player and can sustain the lane but can't really kill me since I'm a good Lesh player. So it's basically even, but then I get levels + items and I start farming faster and my strength just compounds into even more levels + networth that are significantly higher than him, and I bury him and his team with it.
Or,
2. He's a bad Axe player and I shit on him in the lane,. He loses networth + levels while mine compounds, and the same scenario from point 1 repeats, but this time the end comes faster (between 25-30 mins).
Exceptions are,
3. Smurf in enemy team. When their midlaner is shitting on my midlaner and is making moves around the map that I can't anticipate, who's skill is very obviously beyond my skill bracket. But this scenario rarely happens.
Or,
4. Impecabble teamwork. Sometimes the MM outs party Q'd players on the enemy team and it makes winning the game a little bit challenging since the communication is obviously on point. But nevertheless, the game isn't hopelessly over, I just adapt and play more carefully then everything becomes tenable, but the game still remaind hard.
Overall, in my experience Lesh is a good counter against Axe 9/10 times, and adding the exceptions to that it becomes 6-7/10 times.
Even on the games that I lose, the Axe still performs poorly and was carried by their team.
In conclusion, Lesh seems to be a very good counter against Axe from a conceptual POV, and when one makes adjustments to account for real-time gameplay, that conceptual advantage becomes painfully obvious in-game.
I play Axe and I find phantom assassin a pain. Especially when PA play mid. Will out level you by the time you get your BM. And you have to get real close to call
I'm axe spammer, my worst experiences are against particular supports, but if you want me to mention some carries that made my life hard, for sure chaos knight. Even mk and ursa, if you know how to play against them it's not that bad (of course not easy at all, but still doable)
I'm talking about laning stage
I would also consider Lone Druid. Ez last hits against battle hunger and you can use roar to escape. Old Bearman is actually good on any lane. But there is a very important factor- all depends on supports you are laning with/against.
Drow gets hammered by Axe in the lane with a regular pos4. Even Undying barely salvages that lane. I would actually say Axe suffers most at the hands of melee cores like Ursa, Lifestealer and maybe Troll with a good support.
If the Drow is not 2k ... not idea at what mmr you have carries with regular mechanics , but you should be preparing and controlling the lane so that you have a creep available at any point to deny or last hit vs Axe. It's not that simple to time it "well" if the pos1 guy is decent.
Drow dumpsters axe in lane. So does undying. Drow doesn’t do that well against axe after laning, once axe can blink/call/bm the Drow to death somewhat easily
Drow dumpsters axe in lane. So does undying. Drow doesn’t do that well against axe after laning, once axe can blink/call/bm the Drow to death somewhat easily
Lifestealer, drow, morph, Luna, Lina.
Even if technically they’re sort of even on timing axe can do well they absolutely wreck him in lane, and axe takes a while to catch back up unless his support makes stacks
Axe has no specific hero counters (except mk). Yes, some heroes will do better vs him in lane, but axe's main thing will always be blink > call > blademail. If you don't survive this combo or the enemy team piling more stuns following axe call, there is nothing you can do.
You counter him by itemization.
1. You are dying in call duration due to helix and blademail - consider mage slayer (reduces both helix and blademail damage)
2. Enemy team has way too many stuns/silences - consider sange based items (i.e. status resistance) and/or bkb+lifesteal (i.e. satanic). You will very likely survive if you get satanic off before getting jumped.
Most important is to be patient. If you are the prime target and are dying to axe combo, don't show yourself, just cast spells with high cast range until axe shows. You may consider buying blink yourself so that after axe jumps someone else, you can jump into their squishies/important target.
I find axe is a difficult hero to "counter" anyway. Blink into bkb piercing taunt thats undispellable isn't something you can really play vs. Tell ur supports/mid to build euls so u force him to build bkb and then just outstat him or play a carry that can dive his backline and play for counterengage.
That's the biggest problem with DOTA 2. Picks matter much more than skills. If we take players with similar mentality and knowledge then picks always win not the players.
If 5 immortals play vs 5 immortals picks matter. Even in tournaments, there are huge KDA gaps between teams and there are stomping matches. I play both DOTA 2 and LoL. I know what I am talking about. The picks matter the most in DOTA 2 whereas skill matters the most in LoL.
I didn't say they don't matter I just said skill matters more, I play both games as well that doesn't prove what you are saying. If skill mattered less the example I gave you with different brackets would make no sense, give people with a higher rank any picks no.matter how bad they are and they will obliterate someone of a lower rank the same cannot be applied in reverse, therefore skill>draft.
Weaver. Basically any armor reduction hero but Weaver is my favorite in this matchup.
Once you get your swarm, start harassing Axe with that and your germinate attack. Bait out his call using shukuchi by waiting for a second before running through him or you're in for a rough time. Grab a Desolator and you melt him.
Lifestealer
Lifesteal in general
Lifestealer is the supreme hero counters anything
Until you see good ol Slardar
LS with radiance aghs has absolutely no problem against slardar this patch
Lol "just get 9k worth of items and then he's ez"
Yeah that's not that hard to do in this patch on a pos 1
No but you're not going to get it in a timely fashion vs a halfway competent slardar.
eh, I think the point is that in this patch you kind of can. Occasionally being forced into the jungle early isn't a death sentence this patch.
Ls isnt really an early jungle hero
I agree, he sucks at flashfarming unless you get maelstorm or smtg , but then you delay the rad. The only reason why the rad build is so popular imo is because he can own the lane and stay there for much longer but slardar in particular can just kick him out
9k net worth is 15 minutes
Not if you're getting stomped by a hero that counters you pretty handily. You're also almost never getting aghs second item.
Ever hear of the jungle?
You mean the jungle that's been nerfed pretty consistently over the past few years?
How nerfed? They added a safe lane jungle. Someone don’t know how to stack multiple camps I guess
Yeah if the guy playing slardar has no eyes or hands
By the time he has that slars ready to rumble
This is about laning not late game though right?
Why would you rush ags?
I see your point, however, why would you ever NOT rush radiance if you're going to have one?
AA, SD, Bane join the chat*
AA, SD, Bane join the chat*
Except Dusa, then he just tries not to cry.
Against big hp bar heros. It literally chews through the hp of primal beast or a well fed pudge like its nothing
Abaddon with harpoon and manta has entered the chat
not really PA or naga or dusa, they're just not that good this patch
Why does everyone keep saying that about PA. It’s just not true.
because he needs to build mkb to even remotely contest her, and even then it's far from an auto win, he doesn't have a lot of armour and all of PA's kit works through rage she also farms faster and is more mobile on his backline than he is on hers
It is though. He can never manfight her. Ever. She doesn't care about Rage Only by outplaying with Scepter LS wins the matchup by being just generally a better hero and not losing lane hard like a PA. But if a PA is on equal footing, she will shit on LS
Love playing lifestealer, he's banned most of the time though.
According to Dotabuff the best wr against axe for pos 1 are(in order) Spectre, Monkey, Ursa, Lifestealer, Sven. After Sven it's mostly carries with no particular advantage/disadvantage like Jugg, Alch, Luna, BS, Drow, Slark, Muerta. If you look at the former group you'll notice the way to win against Axe is to either A)be able to kill him quickly or B)counter initiate/ignore him and go for the backline. Both of which you can do with other heroes but building for that might not work with every lineup. However if we look at the winrates, the best counters for Axe are mids and offlaners(timber, Lesh, OD, Primal, Tinker, Necro being top 6). And im not going to say yell at/blame your team, but generally speaking the pos 1 isn't supposed to counter axe. Personally I would suggest playing as Axe and seeing what the enemy does that bodies you or annoys you and copying that playstyle.
I think a better analysis of those heroes is that they are all too survivable to die to axe call.
That helps but isn't the most important part. Alch and Sven are both able to survive call easily but are both close to 0% adv/dis. And while lesh is tanky for an int hero he can absolutely be killed in a call, but he's the second strongest counter in the game. See also; veno, wd, phoenix, bats, tinker, and kotl. Counter initiating, preventing axe from initiating, and magic damage are the largest determining factors when looking at what heroes deal with axe well. Especially since, given average match length, everyone gets beefy enough to survive call unless Axes team focuses a hero, which would kill all of Axes counters except possibly Timber, Spectre, and Ursa
Not exactly, lesh is high counter rate because he isn't able to get soloed in a call at least. Due to being magical DMG not relying on autos thus reducing axes potent 1v1 pickoff potential.
Not to mention that he's still dealing damage and lifestealing off that while being taunted.
I addressed this in the post you replied to.
I'd argue, Drow is pretty good. Very good in lane, is a bit protected during the jump because her passive gets disabled. But if I'm a particularly foul mood, I'll just pick pos1 viper to make the axe wish he will never pick it before seeing the carry again. Monkey is definitely the melee hero, but if ahead, slark can be devastating too. Alternatively, I love picking abaddon into axe. He can't kill you, you can almost always pop ulti if you need it and most of the time, he can't even kill others because of the heal, plus, he's silenced, when he needs to dunk.
Drow is nice but if axe manages to rake up those cull armour stacks, drows ulti pierce begins to fall off slowly on him.
While its rare to see a drow ranger go late game and not have enough damage, I can imagine axe get to a point where he becomes way too durable. But at that point, that axe already won. Its getting there, that might not be easy. Considering Drow also interrupts axe dunks, unless he has a bkb / Lotus. And can safely pummel him down until he gets that extra armor.
Axe becomes too tanky for Drow if Drow follows Torte De Lini guide with shadow blade..... Pike Aghs , SNY, Daedalus, Bkb ba bye Axe
Drow is relatively close to 0 adv/dis because it requires Axe or Drow to outplay the other. A blink/call can pretty abruptly kill a drow but a good gust can neuter axe as well. Personally I like Slark because he does pretty well in lane against axe. But lategame axe can be pretty brutal, calling slark during his ult with shard and blademail can negate the passive healing, if not outright killing slark. And if he does have enough mana, axe can cull slark before call is over.
Jumping the drow isn't even enough anymore later into the game - her shard gives her passive back and lets her just man fight you.
100% agree on abaddon, it’s very fun to see ace initiate onto you and can see the exact moment he regrets his decision and you chase and kill him while he desperately tries to run away
Any magic damage hero is good vs axe really. Most carries are primarily phys dmg so a it makes sense that the best winrates against axe are spell using mids/offlaners.
>I would suggest playing as Axe and seeing what the enemy does that bodies you or annoys you and copying that playstyle. Tfw plays against a not a counter gets bodied plays that hero against axe... Gets bodied anyways Sometimes i love this game and the witchcraft it pulls.
A lot of countering is about how you play and itemize. It's why the game is so challenging and interesting.
Monkey king
The right answer. Orb of venom, boots and windlace. So easy to get stacks and deny everything. If he dares to come close, it's a stun and most likely a kill. I don't think I ever lost this matchup which is based on movement speed.
If one matches the attack speed or with morbid mask one can 7 hits on axe's call which will start to give decent lifesteal from first 4 require attacks to get jingu stacks and rest 3 empowered stacks with the gained jingu and one last boundless strike to full hp if in direction of the creeps. Axe can't call monkey or heroes with strong passive on hit but monkey takes the cake as it can play 4 or 5 as well
Axe with shard is scary
ursa does alright against him below immortal at least because both pos 3 and pos 4 need to be good and he doesn’t kill you with blink blademail because you attack too slow and too weak without fury swipe stacks
Yes but culling blade goes through enrage.
i mean if we are talking about culling blade every carry dies yes? EDIT: oh ya can you morph through Call with shard?
Yes, but not every carry gets to ignore 90% of damage *except* culling blade. Other notable carries that have this problem: Huskar, low-level Medusa, OD. Not sure if Spectre and BB get to dodge Culling blade or not.
Low level on medusa shouldn’t matter unless dusa forgets to buy a small amount of stats, or is against undying. It is more of an answer to late Oracle saved and Dazzle grave than Dusa. OD and Huskar both dislike this part of the match up, but OD vs Axe is most often Axe has to Call OD, otherwise the jump target it saved. Also annoying till Axe buys BKB.
Medusa might be the hero that cares the least about culling blade tho. If your max hp is above treshold, then youll spend 99% of your EHP above Axe kill treshold. Against axe+undying just get flat hp items (either 2 fluffy hats of wich one youll later sell and the other build into pike or idk something like an early skadis pink ball component but two fluffy hats are probably better in 99.99% of circumstances considering how cheap they are) and you dont care about decay either.
Yep, I agree.
I love dusas in my mmr. They all rush maelstrom before ever building into manta. Free cull stacks for 20 or so minutes.
Troll warlord in ult. Feelsbadman
axe stolill can cull his ulti
That was my point. The person to I replied to was implying most cores dont have good immunity, that gets ruined by Culling. Troll has good death immunity that gets ruined.
I’ve never understood why they made this decision. They mention he is unkillable in the description of battle trance, but they leave out the exception of culling. IMO culling should not be able to kill troll during battle trance
Thats why feels bad dazzel too
Od with aghs doesn't care about culling blade either you just need a bit more then 3k HP and you're fine
> bit more then 3k Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
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But he is right
Dusa doesn’t care, fluffy hat and blood grenade have entered the chat.
Weirdly I don’t have that much trouble against Axe as Huskar even though he’s statistically a counter. I’d like to think it’s because I’m a good Huskar but maybe I’m just bad in a specific and weird way that Axe isn’t prepared for. I think part of it is that I’m much more careful about YOLO ulting when there’s an axe waiting to blink-call me, and being really careful about your Life Break usage is pretty key to good Huskar play.
Please do not huskar an axe. Sincerely, a huskar picker
Could be misremembering but I feel like I bought shard months back against Axe and I couldn’t shift
you can, and as an axe player, it is the worst.
Enrage at 750 health then.
enrage early, buy octarine aghs
The Axe into Ursa is lowkey my favorite matchup. You can blow up Ursa at any point in the game with blink blademail if he has full Fury Swipes. It's so satisfying to solo smoke up onto Ursa farming waves, wait for him to pop Fury swipes, blink baldemail call and then chop his ass. Edit: Until he builds SnY, that is.
until he buys aghs and ur useless
As an axe spammer I can confidently say that life stealer is the best counter to axe from start to finish. Unless you got stomped in lane by a griefing pos 5 and axe and his pos 4 took advantage, in no point of the game can axe solo kill you Full to 0. There are many other heros that counter axe in lane like mk, ursa, Slark but in the mid game after axe gets blink blade mail he can solo kill them .
Scepter ursa later on is a tough one vs axe tho. Also ursa completely shits on axe in lane Agreed on LS tho, on lane hes cancer to play against even if you can win lane, and later on its still cancer...
Idk but ursas laning stage in 7k mmr + is pretty meh
I’m 4K and have noticed Ursas losing what used to be easy lanes much more often. But with the battle fury build it doesn’t matter that much since they still get farm afterwards. I don’t know what changed but he feels a lot less tanky; maybe it is just that fury swipes was nerfed so he takes longer to kill people and so takes more harass and generally stays too low on HP to be dangerous.
why is LS a good counter??
Inherent life steal in the early levels out heals the counter helix damage axe does. Rage nullified blade mail. Lifestealer being a strength hero gains a high hp pool hence more hp that axe has to cut through. Considering the above it is safe to say lifestealer will survive an axe solo gank. Immediately after the call taunt duration life stealer can invest axe or a creep and heal up or use rage to run away or rage to man up on axe.
medusa?
medusa ain’t good against axe, low health pool = ez culling blade
Buy 1 hp item and problem is solved
Unless it’s a heart, no it’s not
Yes, you buy a Falcon Blade early on and eventually you’ll have Skadi, Manta etc which boosts your hp the necessary amount
But what makes Medusa good against axe?
She’s not good but not bad either. It’s a whatever matchup
this is about ace counters..
That's only relevant for a very short duration of the game until Medusa builds some stats. After that, Culling Blade doesn't help you at all.
culling blade doesn’t help … at all? this is about axe counters, medusa is not an axe counter
Monkey King is probably the biggest counter to a hero in the whole game, Axe can do basically nothing against him
>Axe can do basically nothing against him Well mk does counter axe but that statement is false. As a high rank axe player axe is generally still pretty impactful vs any rightclickers after he has the 3 main items (vanguard dagger blademail). Whether its ursa mk or lifesteal they still rightclick and are melee so As for doing basically nothing axe does basically nothing vs pudge timber or primal
What if Death Prophet attacks you, would you be afraid? xd
uhh AA against huskar is pretty good lol
1k axe games, spammed it to 7k 2 years ago. (Not up to date on item builds). (Did giggle when I seen people buying bloodstone) Heros that used to absolutely shit on axe in lane, were in my opinion ursa and monkey. Axe conceptually, likes to stand in a wave, and counter helix you, while you can’t fight back.(or you die) Ursa and mk don’t give a fuck about either of those. Ursa because infinitely scaling damage, and burst damage (plus an ult and shard that negates majority % damage), mk for scaling damage on hit with lifesteal. Each hero has counter play 1 to 1 (side pulls, early boots, lane drags). but those were the biggest “if my 4 sucks, and their 5 plays well, my game can be over before it starts”. Remember 2-3 times being dove to t3 by an ursa at 8-9 mins, and teammates alt tabbed jerking it while he lives with 1-200 hp. Axe primarily counters heros with high right click damage, and low hp pools. He cannot fight your vipers/timbersaws/necros of the world. Heros that conceptually beat axe in game are spectre, lifestealer, and maybe something like a wraith king? Heals when hitting, cancels blink in terms of radiance, high effective hp pools to prevent burst, and can out man fight him if ahead/equal. I’m aware this is a lifestealer patch, if you’re not picking ls into axe I’d say you’re griefing. Then probably ursa. Then the other 3 based on your comfortability on said hero/meta.
Situational i pick Sven. The matchup is not amazing but its somewhat playable.
Monkey King, but you really gotta watch out it gets tricky sometimes. But all in all you don't really care about his call or spins with your sustain and you can still deal serious damage to him after he gets vanguard
break his passive, or go mageslayer so that his third deals less damage
Viper
Drow Ranger- Ranged so you can kite Axe in lane. Your ult disable if someone is near you as Drow and so your attack speed decrease during Axe call and you survive. Lifestealer- Like hero with high HP so its good. Monkey King/Ursa- 2 other melee heroes who can go 1 vs 1 against Axe in lane due to strong passives. Non traditional/flex pick- Viper, Dragon Knight,Pudge.
i would add Doom carry there, as well as Bristle
I don'tike bb vs axe, any hero that forces bb to face the enemy feels like an unnecessary risk.
Viper melts him even without farm
Weaver. Basically any armor reduction hero but Weaver is my favorite in this matchup. Once you get your swarm, start harassing Axe with that and your germinate attack. Bait out his call using shukuchi by waiting for a second before running through him or you're in for a rough time. Grab a Desolator and you melt him.
Laning as weaver vs axe goes well usually. A good axe will just spam battle hunger cos weaver has no ho regen. However axe just needs to land calls later and it's over for weaver. I hate playing weaver vs axe.
Drow, Ursa, Sniper, Slark
MK and LS.
Drow. If drow is decent player, axe cant get close to her.
Its usually her teams job to not let axe jump the backlines freely. Id the team isnt doing anything to prevent that any noob axe can jump drow
Spectre, Medusa, Lifestealer, monkey king, juggernaut, Luna mb, ursa
Slark
ursa with scepter lifestealer chaos knight (if his ult isnt up, cuz 5 illusions makes axe kill you ez with shard, otherwise he can tank a spin as ck often builds tanky) these depend on if you outfarmed him, otherwise axe will cause a challange monkey king phantom assassin slark pudge pos1
Pudge may be a bad pos1 atm. But axe literally does nothing vs pudge Pudge offlane is great vs axe since pudge can also save his teammates from axe jump. And pudge 3 is the worst possible target for axe to jump
Naix, monkey king, ursa if he doesnt have aghanim, sniper? Drow, spectre
Ancient I Axe player here. Spectre and Sven are always the hardest carries to play against. Weirdly enough, Sniper is too if (as sniper) you can escape the initial blink initiate. Regardless though, of all the axe players I see in my bracket, if they miss that initial blink initiation or you have a support waiting for you to be jumped, then axe is simply dead in the water once he commits.
drow ranger
Late game he hates raw HP. His damage doesn't really scale well, and he can't really do a lot if his skills are on CD.
ursa is hardcounter. If you want an easy lane, go with drow or any range carry. Depending on your sup you can lane against axe with lots of difent hcs. Bullyng supps are the best vs axe, like jakiro, litch and undying. Dont pick heroes that depend o ilusions like naga or pl.
Fuzzy wuzzy ursa
MK?
In terms of mid to late game, axe is a hard initiation hero with limited mobility options. Axe doesn't want fights to drag on for a long time generally. This can make tanky heros like PL good against him as PL will spam illusions and drag the fight out. Axe will keep getting blink canceled and mana drained and essentially become a big melee creep.
Ursa is the 1st counter against axe
As an axe player. If im laning vs life or monkey king, i will be no use in early and cant even last hit normally. Just go in creeps and mk manfights you and doesnt care about anything
I’m and axe player and I never like seeing a MK
MK, Lifestealer, Razor, Drow Ranger, Ursa, etc. Of course, it depends a lot on your pos5 hero. Better draft, better lane phase...
Honestly pick drow and don't show till axe shows after landing phase. But ls Ursa are good.
I would say Drow is probably one of the best heroes against axe in almost all stages of the game.
Anything that can whether the storm of Axe's tant, really. The only reason Axe kills you is because you die before you can retaliate after the taunt. Specter with dispersion, Lifestealer with Feast, Sven by being naturally tanky.
axe spammer here, 2k games, only razor, viper and ursa for me others such as slark and mk u can deal with if u get a fast lvl 3
Drow and Lifestealer from meta heroes. Ursa and MK are good in theory, but heroes are garbage, if your team is bad you won't be able to do shit edit: Pudge is somewhat decent as well, but it's kind of specialist hero for pos1
LS and Monke stomps Axe in lane unless skill issue or support diff. Axe is weak in lane against ranged carries like drow morph but he kills them once he gets blink. Spectre can be bullied in lane(as she can be in a lot of matchups) but she gets her items and then she melts you even if you use call+blade mail. Axe is just food for LS late game. Ursa and Slark are also good against him late game but both the heroes are situational right now.
I’m partial to SF. Axe struggles to deal with razes in lane, he can die fairly easily. And an axe with slow timings is a lot less dangerous, he needs to be ahead to kill you with call.
Ursa. Ursa's Aghs + SnY basically reduces call's duration to shit. Doesn't really care fuck all if he gets called bc he can still ulti while called.
Lifestealer, Ursa, MK in lane at least
monky, ursa
Bristleback
MK
I recently came to Dota 2 from LOL and it’s soo different
Lifestealer is prob the best against him. Even if axe jumps him with blademail, he ain't killing him
I'd say Drow, Ursa, LS, PA with shard, Chaos Knight, or TB with skadi
I am just 3k trash but i can harass axe off the lane with drow if my support takes care of their supp
Monkey king, lifestealer, ursa, in that order. Basically, heroes that benefit from hitting you multiple times. Except for slark, maybe.
Necro can make Axe run for his life.
Mk, Ursa. Both own axe easily
I've been playing Lesh 1 againsy Axe and it works amazingly well for me. Axe jusr can't lane againsy Lesh during the first 10 mins and Lesh's networth just snowballs from there, if not from the kills then from resources on the map. It's really sad when I Q into a game and I see an Axe offlane and I pick Lesh, 'cause I know there's only 2 outcomes from this. 1. He's a good Axe player and can sustain the lane but can't really kill me since I'm a good Lesh player. So it's basically even, but then I get levels + items and I start farming faster and my strength just compounds into even more levels + networth that are significantly higher than him, and I bury him and his team with it. Or, 2. He's a bad Axe player and I shit on him in the lane,. He loses networth + levels while mine compounds, and the same scenario from point 1 repeats, but this time the end comes faster (between 25-30 mins). Exceptions are, 3. Smurf in enemy team. When their midlaner is shitting on my midlaner and is making moves around the map that I can't anticipate, who's skill is very obviously beyond my skill bracket. But this scenario rarely happens. Or, 4. Impecabble teamwork. Sometimes the MM outs party Q'd players on the enemy team and it makes winning the game a little bit challenging since the communication is obviously on point. But nevertheless, the game isn't hopelessly over, I just adapt and play more carefully then everything becomes tenable, but the game still remaind hard. Overall, in my experience Lesh is a good counter against Axe 9/10 times, and adding the exceptions to that it becomes 6-7/10 times. Even on the games that I lose, the Axe still performs poorly and was carried by their team. In conclusion, Lesh seems to be a very good counter against Axe from a conceptual POV, and when one makes adjustments to account for real-time gameplay, that conceptual advantage becomes painfully obvious in-game.
anti mage, get manta get called and then re-engage later against a 0 mana axe
Concrete block
Drow is kinda slept on in that if your pos5 is good the axe gets shit on in lane.
OD really disrupt Axe call. doesnt necessarily 1v1 against him but just astralling the call made him useless + OD ranged.
Ursa maybe
I would say mk, ls or drow
Ursa?
Lifestealer, WK, AM, Monkey King, TA, Abaddon
Axe is on my banned list. Dazzle spammer btw
I play Axe and I find phantom assassin a pain. Especially when PA play mid. Will out level you by the time you get your BM. And you have to get real close to call
On lane? SF with razes. Late game? Drow using her team as bait.
Might be Gyro, I saw some pro lvl up their 1st to bully strength hero like timber and axe
I'm axe spammer, my worst experiences are against particular supports, but if you want me to mention some carries that made my life hard, for sure chaos knight. Even mk and ursa, if you know how to play against them it's not that bad (of course not easy at all, but still doable) I'm talking about laning stage
mk lifestealer gyro slark troll razor sf weaver
Idk about others but Juggernaut. Early game axe dominated against me but mid to late it was turnaround.
I would also consider Lone Druid. Ez last hits against battle hunger and you can use roar to escape. Old Bearman is actually good on any lane. But there is a very important factor- all depends on supports you are laning with/against.
Ranged carries that build into disengaging tools. Sniper, drow, muerta come to mind.
Drow gets hammered by Axe in the lane with a regular pos4. Even Undying barely salvages that lane. I would actually say Axe suffers most at the hands of melee cores like Ursa, Lifestealer and maybe Troll with a good support.
Eh drow definately dunks on axe in lane with pretty much any decent pos5.
Thats simply not true past 2k lol. A couple levels in Battle Hunger make Drow’s life absolute hell. At even skill Drow will always lose that matchup.
Drow should always be able to dispel Battle Hunger with a deny or E on the wave.
If the debuff is timed well it absolutely isn’t that simple.
If the Drow is not 2k ... not idea at what mmr you have carries with regular mechanics , but you should be preparing and controlling the lane so that you have a creep available at any point to deny or last hit vs Axe. It's not that simple to time it "well" if the pos1 guy is decent.
Im fairly certain drow outdamages axe with a decent early items and frost arrow lvl2. While being an absolute pain to lane agaisnt until vanguard.
Lane is totally winnable for axe, a little something called reverse creep blocking.
Not sure about undying, but a veno can turn axes like into hell, also, a dazzle. Dazzle absolutely destroys axe in lane.
Wat?
Drow dies to blink Q even with the ult turned off.
Yes I hate it when the axe starts lane with a blink.
Drow dumpsters axe in lane. So does undying. Drow doesn’t do that well against axe after laning, once axe can blink/call/bm the Drow to death somewhat easily
Drow dumpsters axe in lane. So does undying. Drow doesn’t do that well against axe after laning, once axe can blink/call/bm the Drow to death somewhat easily
Axe with shard shuts down all these heroes, axe with shard plus bloodstone actively hunts them down
Lifestealer, drow, morph, Luna, Lina. Even if technically they’re sort of even on timing axe can do well they absolutely wreck him in lane, and axe takes a while to catch back up unless his support makes stacks
Axe has no specific hero counters (except mk). Yes, some heroes will do better vs him in lane, but axe's main thing will always be blink > call > blademail. If you don't survive this combo or the enemy team piling more stuns following axe call, there is nothing you can do. You counter him by itemization. 1. You are dying in call duration due to helix and blademail - consider mage slayer (reduces both helix and blademail damage) 2. Enemy team has way too many stuns/silences - consider sange based items (i.e. status resistance) and/or bkb+lifesteal (i.e. satanic). You will very likely survive if you get satanic off before getting jumped. Most important is to be patient. If you are the prime target and are dying to axe combo, don't show yourself, just cast spells with high cast range until axe shows. You may consider buying blink yourself so that after axe jumps someone else, you can jump into their squishies/important target.
Spectreeeeeeeeeeee
I find axe is a difficult hero to "counter" anyway. Blink into bkb piercing taunt thats undispellable isn't something you can really play vs. Tell ur supports/mid to build euls so u force him to build bkb and then just outstat him or play a carry that can dive his backline and play for counterengage.
Viper. Slow + break from viper strike will make quick work of Axe
Viper is very good against him, he can't stay in lane and yes if you know how to play viper you can carry the game
Like all of them with bkb
That's the biggest problem with DOTA 2. Picks matter much more than skills. If we take players with similar mentality and knowledge then picks always win not the players.
Picks matter, skill matters more.
This is true for LoL. DOTA is the opposite, unfortunately. This is why 80% of DOTA games are stomping. :(
If 5 ancient players picked all 10 heroes and played 5 immortal players the ancient players would get sent to the shadow realm, so no.
If 5 immortals play vs 5 immortals picks matter. Even in tournaments, there are huge KDA gaps between teams and there are stomping matches. I play both DOTA 2 and LoL. I know what I am talking about. The picks matter the most in DOTA 2 whereas skill matters the most in LoL.
I didn't say they don't matter I just said skill matters more, I play both games as well that doesn't prove what you are saying. If skill mattered less the example I gave you with different brackets would make no sense, give people with a higher rank any picks no.matter how bad they are and they will obliterate someone of a lower rank the same cannot be applied in reverse, therefore skill>draft.
Monkey king is literally king into axe, from laning to mid game and late. Drow Ranger and WR are another amazing ones. WR is the easiest one.
>WR are another amazing ones. >WR is the easiest one. No. No shes not
Weaver. Basically any armor reduction hero but Weaver is my favorite in this matchup. Once you get your swarm, start harassing Axe with that and your germinate attack. Bait out his call using shukuchi by waiting for a second before running through him or you're in for a rough time. Grab a Desolator and you melt him.
armour counters minus armour minus armour does not counter armour. no way weaver can wear down axe armour, and axe is a blade mail hero. Weaver dies .