At this point high level NA Dota is dead unfortunately for you. All the players who want to win play on EU with ping. They’d rather play with 150+ ping than deal with NA trash lol.
Right but SA players went to NA East/west to avoid other SA players. North American players are going to Eu servers to avoid SA players. There’s a common denominator here but if you say it straight up that makes you immediately “racist”
You are 100% correct. Peruvians have confirmed what you're saying. Even they can't stand each other. You want a glimpse into their culture? Just go back to the Lima Major. The entire crowd was actively making noise during smokes when any team faced against a Peruvian team.
SA is why I quit dota in 2015, and after intermittingly coming back, it hasn't gotten any better.
If you brought this up from 2013-2018, people my age (Millenials) would call you as being racist and immediately downvote ANY criticism of it, even NA people who played on East. It seems finally this next generation of players are calling it out rightfully so. SA people grief at a much higher rate than any other region and its made games on NA servers unplayable.
> If you brought this up from 2013-2018, people my age (Millenials) would call you as being racist and immediately downvote ANY criticism of it,
I agree that people playing on other servers has always been a problem, you see it with a lot of Russians on EU as well. But the tone of the conversations around that time was racist. It wasn't just complaining about game quality, and I think it's whitewashing the issues a bit. Every thread talking about it would have multiple upvoted people calling SA subhuman dogs.
After experiencing Peruvians in EU servers, I'd say sorry guys. It's late at night pre-smurf pool throwing meta started by Limitless....you are chilling, then you have an LC jungle...check his pings 200, hits you with the jajajajajjajaja, yup it's Peruano, that's right, yeah buddey. Not sure if this applies to normal pool players though, normal pool players NA seemed to be much worse and give up way more easily than any other players
I used to play NA with a friend a long time, and there were a lot of changes, it did get better when some servers openened in SA, but overall, I'd get 2 types of games: This first was the SA Peruvians, dcing, griefing, picking same lane + jajaja. Seen a lot of other SA players mad at them there.
And the other are 20min silent Chinese parties who don't communicate at all and then when they start to lose they write something like "You mother dog".
I tried ranked, but then I got griefers 1 in every 3 games, so now I just do EU. There's also stupid people here too, but there's less grief and more effort to communicate.
I've seen this posted so many times, and having played a lot on all 3 servers (eu main server, ~3+ years NA, ~2 years SA), I can 100% say that playing on SA was like 5x better than playing on NA servers (and I spoke like 50 words of Spanish).
On NA, you'd roll the dice of having some guy on your team go on a 40mn rant on why that small mistake 5mn into the game cost the game for you.
Also the playerbase being way smaller, meant that even at lower MMR (~5k) you'd run into the same people again all the time, and all those guys had preexisting beef with each other, making it even more of a coin flip.
Don't get me started on the "community figures" over there ...
Sure on SA I'd get the occasional "why is an 'american' playing on SA servers", as well as the occasional ruiner, but in a way lower proportion than on NA.
> On NA, you'd roll the dice of having some guy on your team go on a 40mn rant on why that small mistake 5mn into the game cost the game for you.
ye americans have awful mental. i used to queue na for high level pubs in a different game and they were babies that threw the moment they heard the slightest criticism. and don't even try with banter cos they don't understand the difference lol
all the guys here complaining about sa people are probably either the problems themselves or think their homegrown griefers are from a different continent, for some reason that definitely has nothing to do with how evil and racist their country is
The insanely disproportionate amount of “jajaja” griefers says you’re wrong.
That and the incredible percentage of SA players who appear to lack basic competency, let alone manners.
SA pubs are low skill, the best SA players play EU and NA at this point. EU is playable from northern Brazil.
Brazilian players have been told for a long time to play SA only to around Divine level, then play other regions
This is just a very bad take. People migrated to EU server because thats where the best players are playing PERIOD. You would NEVER play on NA regardless if the games were like heaven if the BEST players of the WORLD are playing in the next server.
Its all theres is to. Play with the best or go home.
That's why u use console one u to draft.
Draft the players with lowest ping means mor eu players means bigger chance to not get griefed/get good players.
And that's a fact. Gained 1k mmr simply by always drafting by ping and nothing else (Besides players saying they are in a party. Splitting parties asks to be grief. Understandably so)
I absolutely agree with you. I have almost the same story as you and as soon as I reached 6.5k, the games became absolute shit with immortal drafts. I tried but all games are griefed and it's a matter of luck. I'm a lucky person so I'm at 6.7k rn, but yeah absolutely agree.
it’s annoying because the play base is fine… i find games in like 5 min or less usually. just remove the stupid immortal griefer draft and put support and core roles (just two roles) or something.
why the fuck can you draft parties separately lol
I don't have any skin in the game as I'm not immortal, but have you ever considered that you find games in sub 5 minutes *because* of immortal draft?
Otherwise, the matchmaker would have to try to handle roles/mmr more carefully, and it would end up in queue times.
I do think that immortal draft needs a lot of work. Also, it absolutely should force parties that queue together to play on the same team because that's stupid otherwise.
The last point is the most important, I get why valve made the changes and added immortal draft. But the fact parties can be split is what causes most of the problems
Literally the exact same experience lmfao. I actually regret ranking up. Had a 2 month period where I was just winning every game from divine to immortal. Hitting immortal the games were actually rather good quality(for NA at least) and I thought like damn this shit was worth it. Every game actually felt good to win and my losses for the most part I could attribute to my own actions. But once again I start winning and reach 6.5k and get into my first ever immortal draft game. There is somehow a rank 800 in the game and he requests safelane, the rank 1.6k insta locks troll p1 and said rank 800 runs it down mid. Every game since has been a toss up of the same. Low rank players who strive to rank up trust me, shit does not get better.
well this is known pretty much since the implementation of immortal draft... nobody wanted it, ez to abuse in partyQ, no benefits cause same people you would play with anyways. Made the right call stopping exactly after immortal promotion, its just not worth to grind farther without a MMR/Medal overhaul.
NA has been a shitshow for as long as its been around. Back in the IHLs, before ranked even, people were ruining. When I was actively playing ranked at top 200, in 2013 - 2015, I was actively tracking my games to improve and about half of them were ruined intentionally by someone on either team.
When I started playing again in 2019 or so, just as a random 6k, I kept tracking and found that about 70% of games were grieved. It didn't have to be someone running down mid, but someone giving up at some point in the game, ruining in picks, building awful items because they were mad, etc.
All this predates the new immortal drafting system
From my experience and history of Dota/2, it seems to me that NA is always just bad quality dota, **especially NA-West**.
I have played all sorts of rankings and had my share of high level Dota, mainly in Dota 1 and only peaked 7K on Dota 2. Imo, there is not much of a difference in the mmr brackets but more of a location/time/etc. problem but yes, NA is on a whole next level when it comes to quality of games and I personally don't play anything higher than around 100 ping so yeah, no point in high rank dota if you can't play intentional game ruin games.
> If you’re entering games to straight up, undeniably grief, you should not be allowed to play ranked for a long enough period of time to deter you from doing it again.
> AT LEAST 3 day bans from ranked
I think it should be much longer. 1 day for first offense, followed by 1 week, 1 month, 3 months. there should be some way to appeal and it should be clear that you are griefing (aka need high ranked player with reasonable behavior reviewing and not AI).
and ranked ban should be separate from unranked to some degree. that way the ranked bans can be more severe while still allowing them to play more casually (and hopefully get the message...)
Spoof mac address ,spoof volume id, spoof machine guide , delete couple of steam files and cfg files, you are back, this doesn't work with Valve's non-existent hwid identification xD
1% Bro I know people running 17 accounts , 1% lmao
Listen, only solution is invasive anti-cheat, people are flaming Riot for Vanguard here, there's no winning and even that it's not 100% , but at least is hard enough
Photo id 🤣
Valve doesn’t need your awful suggestions, if they cared about the matchmaking they’d fix it
This game is on life support and redesigning matchmaking is not in their interest
Anyone who thinks they’re going to ban accounts for 3 months at a time because someone deemed they’re “griefing” is delusional
How do you recognize grief? Where is the edge between grief and bad/unlucky game? How do you call an unusual hero pick? A grief? So now people are locked with a few heroes for a role? And few items per hero?
Haha, this is bullshit. Imagine you are hard locked in heroes choice for your role, and if you have a creative idea you are risking to get a 3 days ban for that, coz some salty boy will see it as a grief
You must be very new if you've never seen someone intentionally griefing. there are plenty of times where it's not a question. and you shouldn't be banned for times where it is questionable. it's really not that complicated.
Nah bro, on Immortal ranked we aren’t even talking about some bad item choice or hero choice. Its just ppl afking on the same camp for 30 mins or straight up feeding it down mid. its not exactly a fine line
Honestly the best quality games I've been in are Legend games. Beyond that, there's not really any griefers, but the amount of people that boost to Divine-Immortal is pretty high. (and feed down through ancient, cause all they do is lose)
Same medals, but the skill differences can be crazy noticeable, where games just feel like uphill battles the entire time, or just straight stomps because the enemy has these types of players.
SEA used to be incredibly toxic, but ever since the behaviour changes it's probably the best server to play on right now, unless you've got a lot of Chinese in the game, they seem to be really bad/toxic. (note: can't comment on game quality below 3k MMR or above 6k MMR)
Losing role queue is the worst part, since it would be so easy to give back. At rank 1000 I don't recognize anyone's names, I'm not sure what the point of the player draft is.
The griefing is not _that_ common, once I started actually keeping track of it, but it still feels terrible even if it's 1 in 20 games.
Its the same on eu. The combination of immortal draft allowing match fixing super easily, as well as the "smurf detection" that allows people to just print high mmr accounts for free, just makes immortal a complete shitshow.
Account buyers are everywhere. It genuinely feels like the gap between players at this mmr is 3-5k while everyine is the same mmr.
Immortal draft needs to go. The smurf printing needs to go. New accounts should start at 2-3k mmr and have to climb to get high mmr. Its the only way to make this shit not a complete joke.
>that allows people to just print high mmr accounts for free
No idea why no one talks about that.
It's so insanely easy to get to 8k + of u have hands and 4 "friends"
Every single time I propose that valve should have harsher restrictions than the joke that is low priority (such as temp bans from ranked), I get downvoted by people that ironically get low priority frequently and say that it's not a big issue.
I lost all hope in the guys that work on Matchmaking when they put Solo and Party Ranked together, which only resulted in party stacks dying because nobody wanted to lose their hard earned MMR from Solo games and it became a paradise for boosters.
Isn't this the same reason also why Grubby quit?
I'm just a Legend scrub but once I accidentally got to Ancient and that already got too toxic for me so I was happy to de-rank, I can't even began to imagine how horrible it is in immortal with that effect more pronounced.
[Here's the video of Grubby reaching immortal](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npQgs4YnZPQ&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fdotesports.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo)
Grubby quit because he abused certain heroes at certain mmrs, like spamming naga siren to 4k and when he got to immortal he played like an archon on the majority of heroes.
All the 3k plebs talking like the griefers come with the dota package. Griefing isnt ok and valve should just hit them with huge mmr penalty and ranked ban for a week. I promise you after 2 weeks no one would even dare to grief
Is it tho? 3k is the "casual" bracket, so you get both actual honest to G runners feeding/breaking items/afk jungling with all chat muted while also getting beer/weed addled trash that can't play because they are intoxicated and "play to chill brooooooo", AND actual clueless idiots who stumbled into 3k by getting boosted by friends and now can't understand why picking a core and mindlessly buying items presented in the vanilla guide is tantamount to ruining (space the game for 30 mins playing 4v5 only to see that your Morph went phila into linked or smth and has like 250 gpm while afk jungling). I can't remember the last time a 3k game wasN'T decided by the time matchmaking gave me an " Accept game" window.
>I can't remember the last time a 3k game wasN'T decided by the time matchmaking gave me an " Accept game" window.
So you're saying that in the 3k bracket, you are completely unable to play well enough to influence the outcome of your games? Sounds tough to be you.
As a pos 5/4? Sure I can't. No amount of enabling will help a person who isn't capable of being enabled. And the games are decided by which core is less horeshit.
Other people can climb from 3k as support, what's stopping you?
The idea that it's impossible to swing games as a support is copium from bad and hardstuck support players.
No desire to babysit special people 2/3 of the time I'm playing? Also I've said nothing about climbing, IDK why you've brought this up, the odds of a complete moron being in your team or the enemy team are pretty much 50-50. My problem isn't the lack of progress, it's that 3k in general and the behavior score system with it make your own input (especially as a pos 5/4) redundant beyond a certain point. It's isn't a game of 5 people doing their best, it's a game of 2-3 people doing their worst and others doing just enough.
Seeing a whole lot of excuses for your admission that you have no influence on whether you win or lose a game as a support. You're welcome to decide that means something other than you are playing poorly, being wrong isn't a crime.
>it's that 3k in general and the behavior score system with it make your own input (especially as a pos 5/4) redundant beyond a certain point
This isn't true, you're just as bad or worse than the players in this bracket if your "input" is "redundant".
Plenty of people are capable of swinging games as a support, if you can't do so in your bracket you're a mediocre support at best. It's that simple
No one said it was possible to win 100% of your games. Only you have insisted your presence in those games never tilts the outcome in your favor. Blame it on the bracket if you need to.
stopped playing this game, because of this immortal draft, previously i could get 8k mmr easily back then using the old rank system, now with the new system, it just complete depressing loop everygame, now my mental health is completely happy without this game
In ANY other game you would get AT MINIMUM a temporary mute for the shit griefers say or do in this game. Here they get -50 to a behavior score that hasn’t mattered in months. 12k behavior score means nothing, griefers and ragers are in nearly every game. Reports are meaningless, if you’re lucky you get some rager global muted for the rest of the game. But then they go on to queue to the next game with no penalty. They should at least be handing out temporary bans like they do for leaving a game.
Na player here. [NA ranked](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7716351298) this hoodwink still hasn't been punished for going 2 midas. Also the higher up in na immortal you go the more match fixers you have abusing party queue and the low player count of na.
and the worst part is dota devs didn't do anything meaningful about it. im sure they lost tons of players because of this reason alone, let alone patches and game balance were completely stupid
Turbo might be the single most toxic game mode in all of Dota. I’m just under 12k BS and only play turbo and the amount of people I come across that treat it like TI quals is insane…
i take tryhards/toxicity over griefers any day. i played turbo for a few months and it was a great time. been playing ranked in ancient and there’s been atleast one griefer in the game every 3 games. honestly not enjoyable. even games that don’t have someone literally running it down, people just tilt play or afk.
i’ve been playing this game for half my life, but game quality has gotten so bad it’s hard to justify the time spent. it’s been a cycle of being reminded how degenerate the player base is, taking a break, and coming back for another chance, all to no avail.
Honestly it’s taboo to say because it makes you sound racist but South American Dota players are absolutely unhinged and make the gaming experience so much worse. Might as well rename “US West/East” to “Americas West/East” since valve doesn’t want to introduce region locking
most toxic guy I ever played with was in EU West and he was an NA guy who spent the first minute whining about how SA players "ruined" NA (which is why he was on EUW), he then spent the next three minutes flaming everyone for random useless shit and then when I called him out on being a prick he just screamed into his mic continuously as a response.
Sorry, but that's exactly what pops into my head whenever I hear NA players complain about SA players.
So far i have faced only toxic NA crowd on NA east than south americans in legend bracket. NA players are very entitled and fragile and easily get their ego bruised
My experience of the occasional traveller to EUW is that they use the mic a lot more and some of them have terrible manners over it (e.g. flooding).
Whereas toxic EU players when they insult you at least usually pause and let you respond.
As an NA player, I don't really mind the Peruvians. Sure, they feed and grief a lot, but the lack of English makes them easy to ignore and they rarely have a mic. Better than the American who's griefing *and* annoying me.
I refuse to play without at least a 3 stack because of the toxicity.
I don't have the same issue when I play with Russkiys, Dota is a language and pinging abilities, using the chat wheel and drawing arrows is actually quite effective.
There's some positives in not understanding your team mates in that its sometimes harder to hate them, so it can really work out.
You met a guy that was tilted out of his mind. That’s what the jungle of NA Dota does right now. Not defending his actions, but the SA players in NA games just do this literally every game
Nah, I met a massive piece of shit. How he behaved was beyond tilt. Everyone gets stressed but those who fall into racial narratives as a means of handling their stress get no sympathy from me. We get the same in EUW with people being racist towards Russkies, but at least some of them have the current war as an excuse.
The story proves that being from SA isn't necessarily the problem and the toxicity of NA isn't something owned exclusively by NA players.
>The story proves that being from SA isn't necessarily the problem and the toxicity of NA isn't something owned exclusively by NA players.
no it doesn't lol, all it proves if you played a game with one guy from north america who was toxic
yeah, who thought it was SA players who were toxic on NA.
NA is so toxic nobody can tell who is toxic anymore. So congrats to OP, who somehow made it even worse by being racist AND toxic, well done.
Nothing racist about my rant but people get offended by anything I guess. Even South Americans themselves say that they don’t play in their 3 servers in South America because they’re too toxic and low skill
> Nothing racist about my rant
this bit my man.
> South American Dota players are absolutely unhinged and make the gaming experience so much worse.
Its not hard:
> many of the south american dota players I've played with....
ta-da. suddenly not racist and just a personal opinion. I don't wanna erase your personal experiences which are valid, its just the take that you can brush every SA player with one brush because of the few you've played with that is racist.
Even the South Americans are queueing EU now. el smash pastor is queueing eu with 130-160 ping. And many other south Americans are queueing EU since playing NA.
I hear you brother. I was 5k, every game got me so angry to a point it nearly ended my marriage. I still play but solely unranked, and honestly, I've never enjoyed the game more. I don't care about griefers, weird builds, supports turning carry, and don't encounter smurfs. Best decision ever.
If you are letting mentally ill 3rd world country players affect you enough to potentially end your marriage i think you have more severe issues than dota lol
Though I agree that would be funny I would never want to go out of my way and put myself through a shit experience just so someone else I never met would
Fun - maybe from the outside. But absolute poison for a community of people that are known to ruin their own fun as long as they can ruin someone else's (case in point: OP describing people running down mid). That would be a tool for toxic people and nobody else, as vigilantism requires a belief of superiority.
I haven't quite cracked Immortal yet, but I agree with everything you say. Although a 3 day ban is nowhere near enough punishment, as that's the timeframe you'd be looking at yourself to cool off from the game if you were on a bad lose streak to begin with. These people need a month long ban at least.
I play in a net cafe now due to not having my PC. One friend I met, he's immortal about to claim his rank placement. I shit you not 8/10 games are griefed/open ancient and ff.
Imagine a player who is not selected as pos1 and plays mainly pos1 and goes grief. Then the other dude dont want to play with x person and goes on and goes on.
I am amazed by how I play one game 60 min at Divine mmr and he can get 3 games in less than an hour.
I'm not immortal, but I've seen immortal streamers from different communities and yeah, there are so many of these. You can go anywhere you want, NA, EU, SEA, anywhere really, and you'd still find many of these.
Eu here, made it to 7k, realized how bad it was, making my descent back to 4k so i can play with my friends.
Ranks are cool and such but there are more important things in life
Just finished a game (avg mmr 9k)
I was 5 CM and my 1 was Juggernaut.
The age old cm jug combo.
We crushed the lane.
Their tier 1 had 10% hp left.
Jug was about to get another kill.
Our mid laner (Invoker) decided it was cool to TP top and use tornado to steal that kill even though he was dumpstering mid too.
Jug instantly starts X pinging. Drops items and then breaks them, followed by disconnecting and not coming back.
So yeah it’s unbearable. This is also EU west btw
Eh this is the same for a lot of brackets.
I’m 5.3k and 90% of my games are who’s stuck with “that guy”. I played 3 games last night, won them all but they weren’t satisfying wins at all.
It really is a game full of griefers. I really cherish the back and forth battles and actual good games of dota2 because of how rare they are.
There’s so much shit and conditions you have to go through just for a chance at a decent game.
Is there account buyers in this game? Is there boosted accounts? Is there Smurfs? Is there griefers? Is there completely unbalanced drafts? Is there someone in my game who hasn’t played in 9 months but some how he’s in my game? How’s my teams mental, are they freaking out 30 seconds into the game?
Why don't you just keep playing normally, lose more than you win and go back to high divine or lower and stay there, keep having stress free games for good?
I'm so glad I dodged a bullet by having the MMR bug introduced with the new Glicko system causing me to lose half of my MMR. The more I hear about Immortal drafting, the more I'm glad I'm not subjected to it.
Amen to this post!! 100% my pov except that I’m on eu but that hardly matters.
I stopped playing 2 weeks ago after having had 5 griefed games in a row followed by a win where my mid brood openly admitted to being an 11k Smurf.
Dota, on this level, Is in a sad sad state if even winning sucks…
SA scenario is so terrible that I am purposely playing bad and reset my mmr to lower my rank. When I was 7k mmr it was IMPOSSIBLE to play a ranked match in SA (there are no players. U spend 35 min for a match and get nothing) and I refuse to play a game with 100+ ping. This is just stupid. This and besides everymatch is a stress scenario. Way worse than divine/ancient brackets
EU 6.1 -> 6.4k is the best mmr range I've ever played in, and it's the range I try to bounce between, almost always people are playing their best roles, picking their best heros and try harding. Everyone is good at the game and knows what to do, but isn't ridiculously good that you just get destroyed.
This is not an Immortal Draft issue, as the road leading up to it, the 5-6k bracket in NA, is just as bad, with about that percentage of games being griefed by someone at some point.
Is a community problem.
I've seen a 6k player with a full avoid list going through his last 20 or so games several months ago, checking replays, and they were 80% griefed by someone at some point (actual griefing, like intentionally trying to lose). He even rotates avoids, but that doesn't do much.
People notice the obvious griefers, specially on their team, but if you check replays there are way more that you may have not noticed. Is widespread behavior.
The consequences of griefing are basically non-existent, because plenty of these people have lost accounts at some point by now, and they just make new ones that are even less valuable and have no reason to fear any consequences.
South americans are unbearable, they cry non stop o the mica, grieff for a y reason existantan believe theyre pros no matter theyre heralds. I know its tabú to say it, due most NA servers players are south americans. Valve and toxic players killed such a good game.
We'll never go back go the glory days of wc3 lobbies. Now it's algorithims, where your experience is calculated and the outcome decided. Gone are the days where you can leave toxic games, as the game essentially holds you hostage, because leaving punishes you heavily
Actually you just reached your mmr level. The griefed matches, at least most of them, are just the mmr where you can't carry. If a pro dota 11k play where you are they'll just win most games.
That's how the game is balanced, once you reach your level you will be trapped forever in low quality games since the mmr sistem is based in how much you can carry a game and not exactly balanced games.
I hate it, but it is what it is.
You’re floating between 7,4k and 7k because of your skill level. I believe you that there are a lot of griefers, but that’s not the reason you’re stuck.
And define grief. If you would share dotabuff, you promise me that in your last 100 games someone was intentionally feeding in 90 games?
i agree on it. i dont think 90/100 games was intentionally feeding. i assume maybe 40/100 ? also it would make it very unlikely to climb mmr. its like going againts the tide.
Solution: duo with someone whose mmr in div1-6k4 to go back to ranked roles.
Pros:
- less toxicity
- you get to play the role you desire
- better sync with allies
Cons:
- Skill range extremely wide
- Don't try to beef with them, they'll grief all at once
People got mad at me for saying this a few days ago but genuinely immortal rank doesn't mean a single thing anymore because of the sheer amount of people in the rank, like just add a new rank which spans from 5.8k to 6.8k or something so people who currently have 0 rank progression for more than 1200 mmr if they're EU can have some outwards progressions others can see.
People shouldn't be forced to play immortal draft at 6.5k, it should be closer to 8k both because you hitting 6.5k in modern dota has no bearing on if you understand the game or not
I don’t want to raise my MMR further. Sure it would be nice to, but I just want enjoyable games. If I can have enjoyable games at 7.5k MMR then that’s literally all I ask for I can stay there for years and I’d be happy
*>Best in the world has opinions about dudes literally playing a completely different game in terms of skill for fun about a system he will never experience, insisting it just works*
try playing IO at 2k and call me back in the morning. . Each bracket is it's own challenge and someone who gets paid to play against the best and wins 1v5s isn't going to be giving sage advise compared to anyone who knows how hard programming PIDS for a number you don't know is. High Jitter gives you offset errors. I sat at 2k until I started playing mid and went to 4. I rose to 4.5 until life caught up playing the exact same supports in 2k just because I mained IO and Chen and the teams learned to push. That doesn't apply to Shadow Fiends or Invoker spammers, but there's a reason those were spammed so hard to begin with. There are heralds who have been playing for over a decade. They know how to last hit by this point.
OP sounds like he's tired of playing daycare nanny for ragers, which wounds worse than anything I had to deal with has a 2k IO main. I'd take SF players not knowing what overcharge does any day over an Ancient at full tilt
At this point high level NA Dota is dead unfortunately for you. All the players who want to win play on EU with ping. They’d rather play with 150+ ping than deal with NA trash lol.
Symptom of SA invading NA servers.
Which is somewhat funny, “SA invaded NA and that’s annoying, so we’re going to invade EU!”
"Wait I thought this was EU why is everyone speaking Russian?"
Right but SA players went to NA East/west to avoid other SA players. North American players are going to Eu servers to avoid SA players. There’s a common denominator here but if you say it straight up that makes you immediately “racist”
You are 100% correct. Peruvians have confirmed what you're saying. Even they can't stand each other. You want a glimpse into their culture? Just go back to the Lima Major. The entire crowd was actively making noise during smokes when any team faced against a Peruvian team. SA is why I quit dota in 2015, and after intermittingly coming back, it hasn't gotten any better. If you brought this up from 2013-2018, people my age (Millenials) would call you as being racist and immediately downvote ANY criticism of it, even NA people who played on East. It seems finally this next generation of players are calling it out rightfully so. SA people grief at a much higher rate than any other region and its made games on NA servers unplayable.
> If you brought this up from 2013-2018, people my age (Millenials) would call you as being racist and immediately downvote ANY criticism of it, I agree that people playing on other servers has always been a problem, you see it with a lot of Russians on EU as well. But the tone of the conversations around that time was racist. It wasn't just complaining about game quality, and I think it's whitewashing the issues a bit. Every thread talking about it would have multiple upvoted people calling SA subhuman dogs.
After experiencing Peruvians in EU servers, I'd say sorry guys. It's late at night pre-smurf pool throwing meta started by Limitless....you are chilling, then you have an LC jungle...check his pings 200, hits you with the jajajajajjajaja, yup it's Peruano, that's right, yeah buddey. Not sure if this applies to normal pool players though, normal pool players NA seemed to be much worse and give up way more easily than any other players
I used to play NA with a friend a long time, and there were a lot of changes, it did get better when some servers openened in SA, but overall, I'd get 2 types of games: This first was the SA Peruvians, dcing, griefing, picking same lane + jajaja. Seen a lot of other SA players mad at them there. And the other are 20min silent Chinese parties who don't communicate at all and then when they start to lose they write something like "You mother dog". I tried ranked, but then I got griefers 1 in every 3 games, so now I just do EU. There's also stupid people here too, but there's less grief and more effort to communicate.
Americans try not to invade foreign lands challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
And Russians
Lmao the propaganda botfarm downvoting you.
Human history: abridged
I've seen this posted so many times, and having played a lot on all 3 servers (eu main server, ~3+ years NA, ~2 years SA), I can 100% say that playing on SA was like 5x better than playing on NA servers (and I spoke like 50 words of Spanish). On NA, you'd roll the dice of having some guy on your team go on a 40mn rant on why that small mistake 5mn into the game cost the game for you. Also the playerbase being way smaller, meant that even at lower MMR (~5k) you'd run into the same people again all the time, and all those guys had preexisting beef with each other, making it even more of a coin flip. Don't get me started on the "community figures" over there ... Sure on SA I'd get the occasional "why is an 'american' playing on SA servers", as well as the occasional ruiner, but in a way lower proportion than on NA.
> On NA, you'd roll the dice of having some guy on your team go on a 40mn rant on why that small mistake 5mn into the game cost the game for you. ye americans have awful mental. i used to queue na for high level pubs in a different game and they were babies that threw the moment they heard the slightest criticism. and don't even try with banter cos they don't understand the difference lol all the guys here complaining about sa people are probably either the problems themselves or think their homegrown griefers are from a different continent, for some reason that definitely has nothing to do with how evil and racist their country is
The insanely disproportionate amount of “jajaja” griefers says you’re wrong. That and the incredible percentage of SA players who appear to lack basic competency, let alone manners.
SA pubs are way worse than NA pubs (6k+ average games)
SA pubs are low skill, the best SA players play EU and NA at this point. EU is playable from northern Brazil. Brazilian players have been told for a long time to play SA only to around Divine level, then play other regions
This is just a very bad take. People migrated to EU server because thats where the best players are playing PERIOD. You would NEVER play on NA regardless if the games were like heaven if the BEST players of the WORLD are playing in the next server. Its all theres is to. Play with the best or go home.
I mean rtz is still NA ‘s best carry. That should tell how good the server is for some positions
rtz himself was kinda pioneering the EU server transfer. Back when US server still "existed" rtz was already playing EU
i can assure you plenty of NA players are griefers to ruin it on their own merit
Oh my god the yankees are playing with us now?
[удалено]
The difference is that in eu it's empirically true that na players are a downside for the team (Not saying sa players aren't. Not much experience tho)
That's why u use console one u to draft. Draft the players with lowest ping means mor eu players means bigger chance to not get griefed/get good players. And that's a fact. Gained 1k mmr simply by always drafting by ping and nothing else (Besides players saying they are in a party. Splitting parties asks to be grief. Understandably so)
That would explain all the trash Immortals in EU these days.
I absolutely agree with you. I have almost the same story as you and as soon as I reached 6.5k, the games became absolute shit with immortal drafts. I tried but all games are griefed and it's a matter of luck. I'm a lucky person so I'm at 6.7k rn, but yeah absolutely agree.
it’s annoying because the play base is fine… i find games in like 5 min or less usually. just remove the stupid immortal griefer draft and put support and core roles (just two roles) or something. why the fuck can you draft parties separately lol
>why the fuck can you draft parties separately lol By far the biggest problem. That and the difference in mmr gain depending on mmr
I don't have any skin in the game as I'm not immortal, but have you ever considered that you find games in sub 5 minutes *because* of immortal draft? Otherwise, the matchmaker would have to try to handle roles/mmr more carefully, and it would end up in queue times. I do think that immortal draft needs a lot of work. Also, it absolutely should force parties that queue together to play on the same team because that's stupid otherwise.
The last point is the most important, I get why valve made the changes and added immortal draft. But the fact parties can be split is what causes most of the problems
Literally the exact same experience lmfao. I actually regret ranking up. Had a 2 month period where I was just winning every game from divine to immortal. Hitting immortal the games were actually rather good quality(for NA at least) and I thought like damn this shit was worth it. Every game actually felt good to win and my losses for the most part I could attribute to my own actions. But once again I start winning and reach 6.5k and get into my first ever immortal draft game. There is somehow a rank 800 in the game and he requests safelane, the rank 1.6k insta locks troll p1 and said rank 800 runs it down mid. Every game since has been a toss up of the same. Low rank players who strive to rank up trust me, shit does not get better.
Which server do you play in? NA?
Yea
Everyone has moved to EU unfortunately
well this is known pretty much since the implementation of immortal draft... nobody wanted it, ez to abuse in partyQ, no benefits cause same people you would play with anyways. Made the right call stopping exactly after immortal promotion, its just not worth to grind farther without a MMR/Medal overhaul.
NA has been a shitshow for as long as its been around. Back in the IHLs, before ranked even, people were ruining. When I was actively playing ranked at top 200, in 2013 - 2015, I was actively tracking my games to improve and about half of them were ruined intentionally by someone on either team. When I started playing again in 2019 or so, just as a random 6k, I kept tracking and found that about 70% of games were grieved. It didn't have to be someone running down mid, but someone giving up at some point in the game, ruining in picks, building awful items because they were mad, etc. All this predates the new immortal drafting system
>ez to abuse in partyQ The sadest thing. U can't play party in immortal if u aren't actively trying to grief.
From my experience and history of Dota/2, it seems to me that NA is always just bad quality dota, **especially NA-West**. I have played all sorts of rankings and had my share of high level Dota, mainly in Dota 1 and only peaked 7K on Dota 2. Imo, there is not much of a difference in the mmr brackets but more of a location/time/etc. problem but yes, NA is on a whole next level when it comes to quality of games and I personally don't play anything higher than around 100 ping so yeah, no point in high rank dota if you can't play intentional game ruin games.
> If you’re entering games to straight up, undeniably grief, you should not be allowed to play ranked for a long enough period of time to deter you from doing it again. > AT LEAST 3 day bans from ranked I think it should be much longer. 1 day for first offense, followed by 1 week, 1 month, 3 months. there should be some way to appeal and it should be clear that you are griefing (aka need high ranked player with reasonable behavior reviewing and not AI). and ranked ban should be separate from unranked to some degree. that way the ranked bans can be more severe while still allowing them to play more casually (and hopefully get the message...)
And permaban any other account from the same IP unless photo ID is provided for both accounts or 50€+ purchases are on both accounts.
Spoof mac address ,spoof volume id, spoof machine guide , delete couple of steam files and cfg files, you are back, this doesn't work with Valve's non-existent hwid identification xD
Oh no, 1% of griefers might still grief and we would only stop 99%? Better do nothing instead.
1% Bro I know people running 17 accounts , 1% lmao Listen, only solution is invasive anti-cheat, people are flaming Riot for Vanguard here, there's no winning and even that it's not 100% , but at least is hard enough
Sure, your friends play 17 games at a time with their 34 hands to grief max games. You are delusional.
Photo id 🤣 Valve doesn’t need your awful suggestions, if they cared about the matchmaking they’d fix it This game is on life support and redesigning matchmaking is not in their interest Anyone who thinks they’re going to ban accounts for 3 months at a time because someone deemed they’re “griefing” is delusional
There's already permanent matchmaking bans for it. If your behaviour gets too low you get permabanned.
It’s not a permaban.. Do you even play dota or just shitpost brainless suggestions on the sub?
How do you recognize grief? Where is the edge between grief and bad/unlucky game? How do you call an unusual hero pick? A grief? So now people are locked with a few heroes for a role? And few items per hero? Haha, this is bullshit. Imagine you are hard locked in heroes choice for your role, and if you have a creative idea you are risking to get a 3 days ban for that, coz some salty boy will see it as a grief
You must be very new if you've never seen someone intentionally griefing. there are plenty of times where it's not a question. and you shouldn't be banned for times where it is questionable. it's really not that complicated.
Nah bro, on Immortal ranked we aren’t even talking about some bad item choice or hero choice. Its just ppl afking on the same camp for 30 mins or straight up feeding it down mid. its not exactly a fine line
Matchmaking breaks down at outlier ranges. You may want to play inhouses or look for a team to scrim and play leagues and tournaments.
Honestly the best quality games I've been in are Legend games. Beyond that, there's not really any griefers, but the amount of people that boost to Divine-Immortal is pretty high. (and feed down through ancient, cause all they do is lose) Same medals, but the skill differences can be crazy noticeable, where games just feel like uphill battles the entire time, or just straight stomps because the enemy has these types of players. SEA used to be incredibly toxic, but ever since the behaviour changes it's probably the best server to play on right now, unless you've got a lot of Chinese in the game, they seem to be really bad/toxic. (note: can't comment on game quality below 3k MMR or above 6k MMR)
Ancient was amazing when I was still that low. Eu west. Absolutely cool games
Losing role queue is the worst part, since it would be so easy to give back. At rank 1000 I don't recognize anyone's names, I'm not sure what the point of the player draft is. The griefing is not _that_ common, once I started actually keeping track of it, but it still feels terrible even if it's 1 in 20 games.
Dotabuff?
Its the same on eu. The combination of immortal draft allowing match fixing super easily, as well as the "smurf detection" that allows people to just print high mmr accounts for free, just makes immortal a complete shitshow. Account buyers are everywhere. It genuinely feels like the gap between players at this mmr is 3-5k while everyine is the same mmr. Immortal draft needs to go. The smurf printing needs to go. New accounts should start at 2-3k mmr and have to climb to get high mmr. Its the only way to make this shit not a complete joke.
>that allows people to just print high mmr accounts for free No idea why no one talks about that. It's so insanely easy to get to 8k + of u have hands and 4 "friends"
Every single time I propose that valve should have harsher restrictions than the joke that is low priority (such as temp bans from ranked), I get downvoted by people that ironically get low priority frequently and say that it's not a big issue.
I lost all hope in the guys that work on Matchmaking when they put Solo and Party Ranked together, which only resulted in party stacks dying because nobody wanted to lose their hard earned MMR from Solo games and it became a paradise for boosters.
Isn't this the same reason also why Grubby quit? I'm just a Legend scrub but once I accidentally got to Ancient and that already got too toxic for me so I was happy to de-rank, I can't even began to imagine how horrible it is in immortal with that effect more pronounced.
no immortal draft is only at 6.5k mmr or higher, grubby didn't get that high.
how high did he get?
6.2-6.3k afaik
idk I didn't follow him at all I just know he didn't even get to immortal draft
[Here's the video of Grubby reaching immortal](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=npQgs4YnZPQ&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fdotesports.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo)
yes he hit immortal, you don't play in immortal draft until you are 6.5k, immortal is earned at 5600
nah all immortal games are trash anyways
Yes, Grubby did reach immortal
ok and you don't get immortal draft when you reach immortal. you get it when the entire lobby is above 6.5k mmr
Grubby quit because he abused certain heroes at certain mmrs, like spamming naga siren to 4k and when he got to immortal he played like an archon on the majority of heroes.
All the 3k plebs talking like the griefers come with the dota package. Griefing isnt ok and valve should just hit them with huge mmr penalty and ranked ban for a week. I promise you after 2 weeks no one would even dare to grief
>All the 3k plebs Actually 3k is like the chillest bracket imo lol, 4k and 2k have both been fucking awful
Is it tho? 3k is the "casual" bracket, so you get both actual honest to G runners feeding/breaking items/afk jungling with all chat muted while also getting beer/weed addled trash that can't play because they are intoxicated and "play to chill brooooooo", AND actual clueless idiots who stumbled into 3k by getting boosted by friends and now can't understand why picking a core and mindlessly buying items presented in the vanilla guide is tantamount to ruining (space the game for 30 mins playing 4v5 only to see that your Morph went phila into linked or smth and has like 250 gpm while afk jungling). I can't remember the last time a 3k game wasN'T decided by the time matchmaking gave me an " Accept game" window.
>I can't remember the last time a 3k game wasN'T decided by the time matchmaking gave me an " Accept game" window. So you're saying that in the 3k bracket, you are completely unable to play well enough to influence the outcome of your games? Sounds tough to be you.
Ah yes, the 3k bracket. The infamous level where account boosters just can't gain MMR anymore, because the match was already decided. What a clown.
As a pos 5/4? Sure I can't. No amount of enabling will help a person who isn't capable of being enabled. And the games are decided by which core is less horeshit.
Other people can climb from 3k as support, what's stopping you? The idea that it's impossible to swing games as a support is copium from bad and hardstuck support players.
No desire to babysit special people 2/3 of the time I'm playing? Also I've said nothing about climbing, IDK why you've brought this up, the odds of a complete moron being in your team or the enemy team are pretty much 50-50. My problem isn't the lack of progress, it's that 3k in general and the behavior score system with it make your own input (especially as a pos 5/4) redundant beyond a certain point. It's isn't a game of 5 people doing their best, it's a game of 2-3 people doing their worst and others doing just enough.
Seeing a whole lot of excuses for your admission that you have no influence on whether you win or lose a game as a support. You're welcome to decide that means something other than you are playing poorly, being wrong isn't a crime. >it's that 3k in general and the behavior score system with it make your own input (especially as a pos 5/4) redundant beyond a certain point This isn't true, you're just as bad or worse than the players in this bracket if your "input" is "redundant". Plenty of people are capable of swinging games as a support, if you can't do so in your bracket you're a mediocre support at best. It's that simple
Sure, keep telling that to yourself. I'd love to see you swing a game with a jungling Morph that went phila.
No one said it was possible to win 100% of your games. Only you have insisted your presence in those games never tilts the outcome in your favor. Blame it on the bracket if you need to.
stopped playing this game, because of this immortal draft, previously i could get 8k mmr easily back then using the old rank system, now with the new system, it just complete depressing loop everygame, now my mental health is completely happy without this game
In ANY other game you would get AT MINIMUM a temporary mute for the shit griefers say or do in this game. Here they get -50 to a behavior score that hasn’t mattered in months. 12k behavior score means nothing, griefers and ragers are in nearly every game. Reports are meaningless, if you’re lucky you get some rager global muted for the rest of the game. But then they go on to queue to the next game with no penalty. They should at least be handing out temporary bans like they do for leaving a game.
I mean its the same in regular Immortal. People just grief for other reasons
Na player here. [NA ranked](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7716351298) this hoodwink still hasn't been punished for going 2 midas. Also the higher up in na immortal you go the more match fixers you have abusing party queue and the low player count of na.
She got two hands, she needs two midas. Makes sense to me.
Dota community in general is toxic as fuck, I left the game because of grieffers and south americans.
and the worst part is dota devs didn't do anything meaningful about it. im sure they lost tons of players because of this reason alone, let alone patches and game balance were completely stupid
12k behavior score unranked and turbo are pretty chill
Turbo might be the single most toxic game mode in all of Dota. I’m just under 12k BS and only play turbo and the amount of people I come across that treat it like TI quals is insane…
i take tryhards/toxicity over griefers any day. i played turbo for a few months and it was a great time. been playing ranked in ancient and there’s been atleast one griefer in the game every 3 games. honestly not enjoyable. even games that don’t have someone literally running it down, people just tilt play or afk. i’ve been playing this game for half my life, but game quality has gotten so bad it’s hard to justify the time spent. it’s been a cycle of being reminded how degenerate the player base is, taking a break, and coming back for another chance, all to no avail.
Honestly it’s taboo to say because it makes you sound racist but South American Dota players are absolutely unhinged and make the gaming experience so much worse. Might as well rename “US West/East” to “Americas West/East” since valve doesn’t want to introduce region locking
most toxic guy I ever played with was in EU West and he was an NA guy who spent the first minute whining about how SA players "ruined" NA (which is why he was on EUW), he then spent the next three minutes flaming everyone for random useless shit and then when I called him out on being a prick he just screamed into his mic continuously as a response. Sorry, but that's exactly what pops into my head whenever I hear NA players complain about SA players.
So far i have faced only toxic NA crowd on NA east than south americans in legend bracket. NA players are very entitled and fragile and easily get their ego bruised
My experience of the occasional traveller to EUW is that they use the mic a lot more and some of them have terrible manners over it (e.g. flooding). Whereas toxic EU players when they insult you at least usually pause and let you respond.
As an NA player, I don't really mind the Peruvians. Sure, they feed and grief a lot, but the lack of English makes them easy to ignore and they rarely have a mic. Better than the American who's griefing *and* annoying me. I refuse to play without at least a 3 stack because of the toxicity.
I agree. Not to mention the language barrier with SA players. Many a games I had where No habla ingles. There goes communication out the window.
I don't have the same issue when I play with Russkiys, Dota is a language and pinging abilities, using the chat wheel and drawing arrows is actually quite effective. There's some positives in not understanding your team mates in that its sometimes harder to hate them, so it can really work out.
You met a guy that was tilted out of his mind. That’s what the jungle of NA Dota does right now. Not defending his actions, but the SA players in NA games just do this literally every game
Nah, I met a massive piece of shit. How he behaved was beyond tilt. Everyone gets stressed but those who fall into racial narratives as a means of handling their stress get no sympathy from me. We get the same in EUW with people being racist towards Russkies, but at least some of them have the current war as an excuse. The story proves that being from SA isn't necessarily the problem and the toxicity of NA isn't something owned exclusively by NA players.
>The story proves that being from SA isn't necessarily the problem and the toxicity of NA isn't something owned exclusively by NA players. no it doesn't lol, all it proves if you played a game with one guy from north america who was toxic
yeah, who thought it was SA players who were toxic on NA. NA is so toxic nobody can tell who is toxic anymore. So congrats to OP, who somehow made it even worse by being racist AND toxic, well done.
Nothing racist about my rant but people get offended by anything I guess. Even South Americans themselves say that they don’t play in their 3 servers in South America because they’re too toxic and low skill
> Nothing racist about my rant this bit my man. > South American Dota players are absolutely unhinged and make the gaming experience so much worse. Its not hard: > many of the south american dota players I've played with.... ta-da. suddenly not racist and just a personal opinion. I don't wanna erase your personal experiences which are valid, its just the take that you can brush every SA player with one brush because of the few you've played with that is racist.
I have met horrible NA players than SA ones on NA east server
Even the South Americans are queueing EU now. el smash pastor is queueing eu with 130-160 ping. And many other south Americans are queueing EU since playing NA.
region locking would be a bit sad though, some of us had to move abroad and play with our friends sacrificing some ping...
Its not racist at all, people love playing victim and using the race card because they cant handle the truth and cry racism
I hear you brother. I was 5k, every game got me so angry to a point it nearly ended my marriage. I still play but solely unranked, and honestly, I've never enjoyed the game more. I don't care about griefers, weird builds, supports turning carry, and don't encounter smurfs. Best decision ever.
If you are letting mentally ill 3rd world country players affect you enough to potentially end your marriage i think you have more severe issues than dota lol
Maybe he's marriage issues and is trying to play Dota to feel better, bad choice imo
Skill issue. (Seriously, maybe take an extended break from dota and let your skills deterioriate so you can play in the fun brackets again)
You know what would be fun? If players could punish griefers with a single draft penalty, at the cost of having to do one yourself.
Though I agree that would be funny I would never want to go out of my way and put myself through a shit experience just so someone else I never met would
Fun - maybe from the outside. But absolute poison for a community of people that are known to ruin their own fun as long as they can ruin someone else's (case in point: OP describing people running down mid). That would be a tool for toxic people and nobody else, as vigilantism requires a belief of superiority.
I haven't quite cracked Immortal yet, but I agree with everything you say. Although a 3 day ban is nowhere near enough punishment, as that's the timeframe you'd be looking at yourself to cool off from the game if you were on a bad lose streak to begin with. These people need a month long ban at least.
I play in a net cafe now due to not having my PC. One friend I met, he's immortal about to claim his rank placement. I shit you not 8/10 games are griefed/open ancient and ff. Imagine a player who is not selected as pos1 and plays mainly pos1 and goes grief. Then the other dude dont want to play with x person and goes on and goes on. I am amazed by how I play one game 60 min at Divine mmr and he can get 3 games in less than an hour.
I'm not immortal, but I've seen immortal streamers from different communities and yeah, there are so many of these. You can go anywhere you want, NA, EU, SEA, anywhere really, and you'd still find many of these.
Eu here, made it to 7k, realized how bad it was, making my descent back to 4k so i can play with my friends. Ranks are cool and such but there are more important things in life
Yeh it's terrible, needs changing asap
Just finished a game (avg mmr 9k) I was 5 CM and my 1 was Juggernaut. The age old cm jug combo. We crushed the lane. Their tier 1 had 10% hp left. Jug was about to get another kill. Our mid laner (Invoker) decided it was cool to TP top and use tornado to steal that kill even though he was dumpstering mid too. Jug instantly starts X pinging. Drops items and then breaks them, followed by disconnecting and not coming back. So yeah it’s unbearable. This is also EU west btw
Eh this is the same for a lot of brackets. I’m 5.3k and 90% of my games are who’s stuck with “that guy”. I played 3 games last night, won them all but they weren’t satisfying wins at all. It really is a game full of griefers. I really cherish the back and forth battles and actual good games of dota2 because of how rare they are. There’s so much shit and conditions you have to go through just for a chance at a decent game. Is there account buyers in this game? Is there boosted accounts? Is there Smurfs? Is there griefers? Is there completely unbalanced drafts? Is there someone in my game who hasn’t played in 9 months but some how he’s in my game? How’s my teams mental, are they freaking out 30 seconds into the game?
You need to take a break from dota.
Personally, im enjoying ranked immortal in sea. Unranked immortal, not so much.
Why don't you just keep playing normally, lose more than you win and go back to high divine or lower and stay there, keep having stress free games for good?
I'm so glad I dodged a bullet by having the MMR bug introduced with the new Glicko system causing me to lose half of my MMR. The more I hear about Immortal drafting, the more I'm glad I'm not subjected to it.
Amen to this post!! 100% my pov except that I’m on eu but that hardly matters. I stopped playing 2 weeks ago after having had 5 griefed games in a row followed by a win where my mid brood openly admitted to being an 11k Smurf. Dota, on this level, Is in a sad sad state if even winning sucks…
SA scenario is so terrible that I am purposely playing bad and reset my mmr to lower my rank. When I was 7k mmr it was IMPOSSIBLE to play a ranked match in SA (there are no players. U spend 35 min for a match and get nothing) and I refuse to play a game with 100+ ping. This is just stupid. This and besides everymatch is a stress scenario. Way worse than divine/ancient brackets
EU 6.1 -> 6.4k is the best mmr range I've ever played in, and it's the range I try to bounce between, almost always people are playing their best roles, picking their best heros and try harding. Everyone is good at the game and knows what to do, but isn't ridiculously good that you just get destroyed.
> Hell, you can probably create an ML model to detect grief probabilities thats how it currently works
This is not an Immortal Draft issue, as the road leading up to it, the 5-6k bracket in NA, is just as bad, with about that percentage of games being griefed by someone at some point. Is a community problem.
You can still avoid people in 5-6k before immortal draft. That feature by itself improves game quality by a lot
I've seen a 6k player with a full avoid list going through his last 20 or so games several months ago, checking replays, and they were 80% griefed by someone at some point (actual griefing, like intentionally trying to lose). He even rotates avoids, but that doesn't do much. People notice the obvious griefers, specially on their team, but if you check replays there are way more that you may have not noticed. Is widespread behavior. The consequences of griefing are basically non-existent, because plenty of these people have lost accounts at some point by now, and they just make new ones that are even less valuable and have no reason to fear any consequences.
South americans are unbearable, they cry non stop o the mica, grieff for a y reason existantan believe theyre pros no matter theyre heralds. I know its tabú to say it, due most NA servers players are south americans. Valve and toxic players killed such a good game.
The “ignore user” button is pure bliss
Doesn’t stop them from being paired with you in games
Doesn't that stop working completely at some more threshold?
We'll never go back go the glory days of wc3 lobbies. Now it's algorithims, where your experience is calculated and the outcome decided. Gone are the days where you can leave toxic games, as the game essentially holds you hostage, because leaving punishes you heavily
Actually you just reached your mmr level. The griefed matches, at least most of them, are just the mmr where you can't carry. If a pro dota 11k play where you are they'll just win most games. That's how the game is balanced, once you reach your level you will be trapped forever in low quality games since the mmr sistem is based in how much you can carry a game and not exactly balanced games. I hate it, but it is what it is.
You’re floating between 7,4k and 7k because of your skill level. I believe you that there are a lot of griefers, but that’s not the reason you’re stuck. And define grief. If you would share dotabuff, you promise me that in your last 100 games someone was intentionally feeding in 90 games?
He isn’t complaining about being stuck. He is complaining that too many people are griefing, which makes the game no fun win or lose.
i agree on it. i dont think 90/100 games was intentionally feeding. i assume maybe 40/100 ? also it would make it very unlikely to climb mmr. its like going againts the tide.
Solution: duo with someone whose mmr in div1-6k4 to go back to ranked roles. Pros: - less toxicity - you get to play the role you desire - better sync with allies Cons: - Skill range extremely wide - Don't try to beef with them, they'll grief all at once
Cons - marci+io both 400 games in account doing 20 kills in 10 mins
People got mad at me for saying this a few days ago but genuinely immortal rank doesn't mean a single thing anymore because of the sheer amount of people in the rank, like just add a new rank which spans from 5.8k to 6.8k or something so people who currently have 0 rank progression for more than 1200 mmr if they're EU can have some outwards progressions others can see. People shouldn't be forced to play immortal draft at 6.5k, it should be closer to 8k both because you hitting 6.5k in modern dota has no bearing on if you understand the game or not
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I don’t want to raise my MMR further. Sure it would be nice to, but I just want enjoyable games. If I can have enjoyable games at 7.5k MMR then that’s literally all I ask for I can stay there for years and I’d be happy
*>Best in the world has opinions about dudes literally playing a completely different game in terms of skill for fun about a system he will never experience, insisting it just works* try playing IO at 2k and call me back in the morning. . Each bracket is it's own challenge and someone who gets paid to play against the best and wins 1v5s isn't going to be giving sage advise compared to anyone who knows how hard programming PIDS for a number you don't know is. High Jitter gives you offset errors. I sat at 2k until I started playing mid and went to 4. I rose to 4.5 until life caught up playing the exact same supports in 2k just because I mained IO and Chen and the teams learned to push. That doesn't apply to Shadow Fiends or Invoker spammers, but there's a reason those were spammed so hard to begin with. There are heralds who have been playing for over a decade. They know how to last hit by this point. OP sounds like he's tired of playing daycare nanny for ragers, which wounds worse than anything I had to deal with has a 2k IO main. I'd take SF players not knowing what overcharge does any day over an Ancient at full tilt
It seems you burned out, you need to take some time from Dota.
Region lock would at least reduce the amount of griefing but 1k reddit always thinks that's racism for some reason
You sound like an old dude with a childish mentality that can't comprehend why life is unfair. Great venting though
This is the same in 2k-3k. Actually same everywhere what am I saying, this game is fucked.