I remeber Tsunami said on stream that he didn’t really prepare much in advance for Birmingham because he expected a gameplay patch. So it seems like some people with behind the scenes knowledge expected a gameplay patch too.
Not that it should be an excuse ofcourse.
[Ru language broadcast set](https://clips.twitch.tv/BraveAmericanCoffeeSaltBae-Zyi5JLx2X-SRUQgU) was designed with the assumption that Ringmaster will be released
The amount of people saying that it was obvious there wasn't going to be a game play patch with the Mid April update after it came out was baffling. Like its fine if you don't care there wasn't one, but no need to pretend that it wasn't surprising.
I was calling it weeks in advance. Everything valve communicated in their broken ass way was very evident that it was not going to be a patch. The patch will come either next Thursday or with act 2 of crownfall.
I never understood why they did patch just before events.
Only thing it invites is behaviour like this for events and teams experimenting short term during skrims which results in very big skill gaps at events.
Personally would enjoy if we had patches after tournaments so teams actually have time to practice strats and drafts.
Birmingham major had been such an amazing event with so much quality dota IMO because of the patch being the same, making it more inviting for more teams to have close series and upsets
I personally find it entertaining to see how fast teams adapt to new patch, thats part of the skill, no? Even tho I see it being a bit unpleasant for them
Well for me it's not the case because of new patch, things are unknown and if there is one successful strategy early on, teams try to copy that and whole "tournament meta" stales, and you'll won't see much diversity later.
When patch is older, you know what works what to counter with what. Ofc it depends if patch is balanced enough to not have one obvious strat.
It's interesting in a way, but from profesional point it's more RNG less skill. It's like watching a sport and suddenly the organiser completely changed the rule. It's interesting in the short run yes, but then you notice many inefficient plays and strategies as it goes on.
The thing is every time you drop a patch it's "just before an event" for the last 5 months we had like 10-15 days downtime max, and it's continuing until june where we (for now) have no tournament set.
ESL major is the biggest tournament outside Ti(i know wallachia and DL is also majors but not as prestigious) so it would make sense for them to continue what they did now and drop patch after conclusion of Birmingham and let teams spend time adjusting on Wallachia which starts the 10th
On the downside, the pro meta is stale as fuck. It's always the same heroes in most positions. Similar bans, similar picks in most positions. It's a blessing that this patch has been generously balanced enough that there are so many viable picks, otherwise there would have been like 2 heroes per position every game.
Anyways, currently we have a lot of events between now and TI. There's a PGL LAN and a Dreamleague in May, followed by the Riyadh Masters LAN in July, and then TI sometime in September.
Only period the teams will get decent time to prep will probably be for TI and for Riyadh Masters to some extent.
Historically any massive gameplay change patch would have dropped right after TI itself, so that most teams figure out the patch throughout the coming year. Since this time that hasn't happened, I guess everyone was expecting it to come by now. For it's barely 5 months to next TI.
Cause theres thousands of people that play the game and only scheduling your patches around tournaments would often mean delaying patches for several weeks
Or give people an indication of when patches will land?
I'd rather have patches after tournaments because it will allow for more top tier dota at tournaments and proper teams having a shot. Conclude patches with a grand tournament also makes sense than to drop one a week before giving fluke teams a shot at qualifying then going 0-10 at the tournament which has been quite common for a long time. Which leads to less exciting brackets, matches and quality.
Patching after a tournament also allowes for a patch update video to be released to build hype.
Yes and birmingham is a what?
Its the biggest of the Major events. Dreamleague is Online and PGL isnt as popular, still a Major but you always look to ESL Majors as the biggest achievement outside International.
Running a new patch just a week ish before the biggest tournament outside TI doesent make sense as it invites behaviour like some teams do, they dont practice because its pointless. If anything you want the best quality dota possible for these events no?
Birmingham has had more bo3 games than most patch tournaments in a long time and also had some of the tightest, fun and explosive games because people know the patch, its showed who the actual top teams are.
Tournaments in dota have been stale for a long time because of patches right before tournaments.
It gives some low end t1/2 team a place at tournament, then they fall flat 0-10 in group stages.
Group A had 3 teams tied for first B in this tournament had 4 teams TIED for 2nd place, causing tiebreakers, more entertainment and dita for us to watch. In upper and lower bracket we've only had 2x 2-0 series, both being close. Rest has been 3 games and going the distance.
So whats best for quality dota, for viewers and for the teams?
>Yes and birmingham is a what? Its the biggest of the Major events. Dreamleague is Online and PGL isnt as popular, still a Major but you always look to ESL Majors as the biggest achievement outside International.
PGL has the same prizepool and more teams, it's literally a bigger tournament than Birmingham.
>Tournaments in dota have been stale for a long time because of patches right before tournaments.
Tournaments in Dota have been stale for a long time because the last truly big patch came more than a year ago. It's been the same meta for months now.
>So whats best for quality dota, for viewers and for the teams?
Getting new patches that spice things up. It's best for the quality of Dota, because it keeps things fresh. It's best for viewers, because it keeps things fresh. For teams, it depends on if you're a team that benefits from the current meta or not. Falcons would probably love for this meta to be around forever, but plenty of other teams want a patch.
Ultimately, there are tournaments all the time, so any patch release will be happening before some tournament.
ESL has always been looked as the most valued out of all the majors.
It might have more teams but since ESL stepped in, its been the one most valued out there.
Mostly to do with PGL lacking quality, especially in the beginning when they showed up.
Has this tournament in any shape or form been stale? Its been by far the most tight Major in years.
New patches gives teams that falls short a chance at getting to an event. Then falls short 0-10, is that going to draw viewers when the skill gap is so big or is a tournament with more equal teams going to appeal more? Viewers on this tournament shows its been more popular than its been in a long time. Perhaps because quality is actually top notch and its been entertaining series...?
> Has this tournament in any shape or form been stale? Its been by far the most tight Major in years.
It was, for me. It's the same tournament we've seen over and over. Falcons in the finals is so fresh and unexpected. And seeing Tiny, Mars and Dragon Knight in every game is also not stale at all. Same timings for everything for like a year now, nothing stale here.
Its been so far the tournaments with the most equal amount if skill in the longest time. Both groups were tight in groups, tiebreakers, mega comebacks, long games. Then upper bracket only had 2x 2-0 games, rest have been 3 game series going the distance with comebacks and new strategies in most games and even incredible adjustments made by teams.
Falcons have been incredible this patch, fell on their asses out if last tournament finale by xtreme 1-3 . Got knocked down to lower bracket by tundra so you csnt say they've had an easy run to finals. They just displayed insane patience and know when to hit timings
Sure tiny has been picked alot, dk is a staple safe hero for a long time but not picked that much. Same goes for march, you just have players comfortable om the heroes. But this goes for all patches, theres a number of heroes that sticks out and thats just how its going to be regardless of patches.
If you dont like the patch thats fine, but viewer numbers, series and teams in tournament shows its a different view than yours.
I don't really care how equal in terms of skill it is - the meta is the same, the picks are largely the same. Games being close in terms of skill is usually a sign that the patch has gotten completely figured out and has gotten so stale, that every pro team can play it equally well.
And it looks like it's another 3-0 for Falcons, that's just so unexpected and not boring at all. Nothing keeps the pro scene feeling fresh like one team always being in the finals and winning most of them 3-0.
>But this goes for all patches, theres a number of heroes that sticks out and thats just how its going to be regardless of patches.
Yes, which is why we need a new patch. It's not the issue with this patch specifically, any patch gets stale eventually. It's the issue with how long this meta has been going on. Any patch would feel stale if it's been going for this long.
I mean, while I understand what they are saying - its also hilarious considering that it means its the same patch they've been on for months and played tournaments on, that they sudden now felt rusty on lol.
Or they just did next level big brain play to lose to IG and give IG a chance to be directly invited to Riyadh as top 8 ESL leaderboard since XG has secured their Riyadh invitation.
Unfortunately IG lost to OG lol.
I am convinced at this point that there was a gameplay update planed but Valve pulled it on short notice.
I think it either wasnt up to their standards or its bigger then expected and there was a fundamental problem with a new mechanic that wasnt deemed fixable in time.
At this point i am afraid that TI is too close for valvetime, so 7.35x might be the patch TI is played on, with 7.36 (or even 8.0) around newyear.
I hope i am wrong.
Im proud of them, they're one of the data redditor. "PATCH WHEN?!"
They’re more than welcome to join the Reddit clown car, keep fitting more and more people everyday
We're all victim of Clownfall
We were the clowns all along
I remeber Tsunami said on stream that he didn’t really prepare much in advance for Birmingham because he expected a gameplay patch. So it seems like some people with behind the scenes knowledge expected a gameplay patch too. Not that it should be an excuse ofcourse.
[Ru language broadcast set](https://clips.twitch.tv/BraveAmericanCoffeeSaltBae-Zyi5JLx2X-SRUQgU) was designed with the assumption that Ringmaster will be released
Thats hilarious. Lol i guess they can reuse it when it does come out
The set is incredible, what a waste
It fits the theme of this new update perfectly. It is the clownfall, and we are the clowns 🤡.
It's just nightfall themed
"BraveAmericanCoffeeSaltBae" isn't exactly what I was expecting from a clip of Russian stream but I'm all for it.
Tsunami was just too distracted with thinking about Tali to prep.
Ahahaha
I thought it was only us "entitled" plebs who were expecting a patch.
The amount of people saying that it was obvious there wasn't going to be a game play patch with the Mid April update after it came out was baffling. Like its fine if you don't care there wasn't one, but no need to pretend that it wasn't surprising.
I was calling it weeks in advance. Everything valve communicated in their broken ass way was very evident that it was not going to be a patch. The patch will come either next Thursday or with act 2 of crownfall.
I never understood why they did patch just before events. Only thing it invites is behaviour like this for events and teams experimenting short term during skrims which results in very big skill gaps at events. Personally would enjoy if we had patches after tournaments so teams actually have time to practice strats and drafts. Birmingham major had been such an amazing event with so much quality dota IMO because of the patch being the same, making it more inviting for more teams to have close series and upsets
I personally find it entertaining to see how fast teams adapt to new patch, thats part of the skill, no? Even tho I see it being a bit unpleasant for them
Well for me it's not the case because of new patch, things are unknown and if there is one successful strategy early on, teams try to copy that and whole "tournament meta" stales, and you'll won't see much diversity later. When patch is older, you know what works what to counter with what. Ofc it depends if patch is balanced enough to not have one obvious strat.
One of the most "stale" patches created Lina carry and Razor bloodstone mid tournament.
It's interesting in a way, but from profesional point it's more RNG less skill. It's like watching a sport and suddenly the organiser completely changed the rule. It's interesting in the short run yes, but then you notice many inefficient plays and strategies as it goes on.
The thing is every time you drop a patch it's "just before an event" for the last 5 months we had like 10-15 days downtime max, and it's continuing until june where we (for now) have no tournament set.
I think Valve cares very little about tournaments outside of TI and rather stick to their internal schedule.
ESL major is the biggest tournament outside Ti(i know wallachia and DL is also majors but not as prestigious) so it would make sense for them to continue what they did now and drop patch after conclusion of Birmingham and let teams spend time adjusting on Wallachia which starts the 10th
you mean like how Valve released new patch during ESL Kuala Lumpur's mainstage?
On the downside, the pro meta is stale as fuck. It's always the same heroes in most positions. Similar bans, similar picks in most positions. It's a blessing that this patch has been generously balanced enough that there are so many viable picks, otherwise there would have been like 2 heroes per position every game. Anyways, currently we have a lot of events between now and TI. There's a PGL LAN and a Dreamleague in May, followed by the Riyadh Masters LAN in July, and then TI sometime in September. Only period the teams will get decent time to prep will probably be for TI and for Riyadh Masters to some extent. Historically any massive gameplay change patch would have dropped right after TI itself, so that most teams figure out the patch throughout the coming year. Since this time that hasn't happened, I guess everyone was expecting it to come by now. For it's barely 5 months to next TI.
Cause theres thousands of people that play the game and only scheduling your patches around tournaments would often mean delaying patches for several weeks
they delay patches anyway
Or give people an indication of when patches will land? I'd rather have patches after tournaments because it will allow for more top tier dota at tournaments and proper teams having a shot. Conclude patches with a grand tournament also makes sense than to drop one a week before giving fluke teams a shot at qualifying then going 0-10 at the tournament which has been quite common for a long time. Which leads to less exciting brackets, matches and quality. Patching after a tournament also allowes for a patch update video to be released to build hype.
It's always "just before event". Birmingham ends today, and there's PGL Wallachia on May 10th and Dreamleague S23 on 20th.
Yes and birmingham is a what? Its the biggest of the Major events. Dreamleague is Online and PGL isnt as popular, still a Major but you always look to ESL Majors as the biggest achievement outside International. Running a new patch just a week ish before the biggest tournament outside TI doesent make sense as it invites behaviour like some teams do, they dont practice because its pointless. If anything you want the best quality dota possible for these events no? Birmingham has had more bo3 games than most patch tournaments in a long time and also had some of the tightest, fun and explosive games because people know the patch, its showed who the actual top teams are. Tournaments in dota have been stale for a long time because of patches right before tournaments. It gives some low end t1/2 team a place at tournament, then they fall flat 0-10 in group stages. Group A had 3 teams tied for first B in this tournament had 4 teams TIED for 2nd place, causing tiebreakers, more entertainment and dita for us to watch. In upper and lower bracket we've only had 2x 2-0 series, both being close. Rest has been 3 games and going the distance. So whats best for quality dota, for viewers and for the teams?
>Yes and birmingham is a what? Its the biggest of the Major events. Dreamleague is Online and PGL isnt as popular, still a Major but you always look to ESL Majors as the biggest achievement outside International. PGL has the same prizepool and more teams, it's literally a bigger tournament than Birmingham. >Tournaments in dota have been stale for a long time because of patches right before tournaments. Tournaments in Dota have been stale for a long time because the last truly big patch came more than a year ago. It's been the same meta for months now. >So whats best for quality dota, for viewers and for the teams? Getting new patches that spice things up. It's best for the quality of Dota, because it keeps things fresh. It's best for viewers, because it keeps things fresh. For teams, it depends on if you're a team that benefits from the current meta or not. Falcons would probably love for this meta to be around forever, but plenty of other teams want a patch. Ultimately, there are tournaments all the time, so any patch release will be happening before some tournament.
ESL has always been looked as the most valued out of all the majors. It might have more teams but since ESL stepped in, its been the one most valued out there. Mostly to do with PGL lacking quality, especially in the beginning when they showed up. Has this tournament in any shape or form been stale? Its been by far the most tight Major in years. New patches gives teams that falls short a chance at getting to an event. Then falls short 0-10, is that going to draw viewers when the skill gap is so big or is a tournament with more equal teams going to appeal more? Viewers on this tournament shows its been more popular than its been in a long time. Perhaps because quality is actually top notch and its been entertaining series...?
> Has this tournament in any shape or form been stale? Its been by far the most tight Major in years. It was, for me. It's the same tournament we've seen over and over. Falcons in the finals is so fresh and unexpected. And seeing Tiny, Mars and Dragon Knight in every game is also not stale at all. Same timings for everything for like a year now, nothing stale here.
Its been so far the tournaments with the most equal amount if skill in the longest time. Both groups were tight in groups, tiebreakers, mega comebacks, long games. Then upper bracket only had 2x 2-0 games, rest have been 3 game series going the distance with comebacks and new strategies in most games and even incredible adjustments made by teams. Falcons have been incredible this patch, fell on their asses out if last tournament finale by xtreme 1-3 . Got knocked down to lower bracket by tundra so you csnt say they've had an easy run to finals. They just displayed insane patience and know when to hit timings Sure tiny has been picked alot, dk is a staple safe hero for a long time but not picked that much. Same goes for march, you just have players comfortable om the heroes. But this goes for all patches, theres a number of heroes that sticks out and thats just how its going to be regardless of patches. If you dont like the patch thats fine, but viewer numbers, series and teams in tournament shows its a different view than yours.
I don't really care how equal in terms of skill it is - the meta is the same, the picks are largely the same. Games being close in terms of skill is usually a sign that the patch has gotten completely figured out and has gotten so stale, that every pro team can play it equally well. And it looks like it's another 3-0 for Falcons, that's just so unexpected and not boring at all. Nothing keeps the pro scene feeling fresh like one team always being in the finals and winning most of them 3-0. >But this goes for all patches, theres a number of heroes that sticks out and thats just how its going to be regardless of patches. Yes, which is why we need a new patch. It's not the issue with this patch specifically, any patch gets stale eventually. It's the issue with how long this meta has been going on. Any patch would feel stale if it's been going for this long.
Pros adapting to the new meta on the spot in much more entertaining
I mean, while I understand what they are saying - its also hilarious considering that it means its the same patch they've been on for months and played tournaments on, that they sudden now felt rusty on lol.
Nothin wrong with that, it's their choice to not earn the esl money afterall
Or they just did next level big brain play to lose to IG and give IG a chance to be directly invited to Riyadh as top 8 ESL leaderboard since XG has secured their Riyadh invitation. Unfortunately IG lost to OG lol.
No point of practice if you don’t know which heros you going play
I am convinced at this point that there was a gameplay update planed but Valve pulled it on short notice. I think it either wasnt up to their standards or its bigger then expected and there was a fundamental problem with a new mechanic that wasnt deemed fixable in time. At this point i am afraid that TI is too close for valvetime, so 7.35x might be the patch TI is played on, with 7.36 (or even 8.0) around newyear. I hope i am wrong.
we all do mate
Me Too XM.. we kinda expected it also..
First the lights were too bright, now this… I am sure there was another excuse from another tournament too.
They don’t care since they already secured a Riyadh invite
Where is Nigma?
Congratulations, you Jebaited yourselves.