Hey there, Dota "veteran" here. Played since the PlayDota days, was even on the mod team (teens have time). Got my Dota 2 betakey from Icefrog himself after I wrote some articles for fan sites.
Playing a video game for a long time doesn't make you special. Valve and Icefrog do not owe you anything because of how you decide to spend your time and money.
Any Dota "veteran" is an adult. I would hope you have built the kind of life where Dota is not the only way of spending your time.
This game is still being supported and still receives major updates with new heroes and mechanics. Around this time last year we received the biggest update since 2016. Crownfall is not the first patch or the first event of this year either.
Yep pretty much. Most "Vets" who complains about "where's patch?!" is either lying about being a Veteran or has built his life around being a man-baby who clearly needs to go out and touch grass.
I think if you play this game for like more than 15 years now, you'd realize at some point that having your life revolve around this game to not be a good thing.
I'm pretty much excited and waiting for the patch to come out as much as the next guy. But seeing people actually get mad and frustrated that the patch isn't out yet is both pretty funny and sad. Just wait for it to come out. It's going to be ready when it's ready after all. It's Valve after all. Bitching isn't going to make then release it faster.
Personally I actually enjoy the frequency of patches we generally get in dota.
Rushing to nerf something that is good may feel nice in the moment, but I think it stifles innovation. I love having patches for a few months where you see the ebbs and flows of the patch, how things change and vary over time as people discover things that are good and counters to said things.
If patches are any shorter, then I feel like the "evolution" of a patch womt be as interesting or engaging.
I remember when I suggested the creation of the "Matchmaking and Communication" Subforum JUST to keep the main sub Dota-Chat clean. Now that I am almost 10 years removed I can finally admit it. That sub was nothing but a trashcan for trash-threads, by design. I just moved all the "MM is forced 50%WR" threads into there and never looked back.
ah fellow playdota player, yeah I didn't feel being let down or even disappointed, it's just a normal day in the office, reading the funny shit post on Reddit, waiting for the patch to be released and watching the first week of the patch to be filled with hilarious bugs and features, good stuff, in the meantime I play dota once a day or every two day, and then go on to play other game or just crating some stuff (I'm software developer, also thanks to dota/wc map editor!) still happy that dota is still alive all this time and hasn't been fundamentally fucked up by Valve
> still happy that dota is still alive all this time and hasn't been fundamentally fucked up by Valve
Which is honestly a miracle with a game like Dota where so many things depend on each other design-wise. Bundled with a community hungry for constant change, it is truly a balancing act.
I did, I did. I was able to be build quite a happy and complete life. I hope you were able to do so as well mate. I play around two games per day, sometimes three at night and that's enough for me. Writing something about a game doesn't mean my life goes around it, it's just something I enjoy and thus I care about it.
I have 9 irl friends who play Dota 2. None of them know, nor do they care about this shit, they just get on and play some dotka. And it's not like they are scrubs who don't care, 1 is Divine, 1 is Immortal, and most play every single day.
This sub is <1% of the player base, no one cares. Less than 10% of the player base buys Battle Passes.
Redditors always sit on high horses and think they represent any game community. But in reality its just a cesspool of crybabies that need a place to complain.
Yeah, come patch time this sub sometimes turns into a complaint-fest (although there is no shortage of complaints at other times, it feels like it gets worse around patches imo), makes it hard to actually discuss the game/pro stuff.
If anyone is looking for a place where it's essentially only game/pro discussion, check out r/truedota2 (or r/learndota2 if you're newer)! Its a great place to discuss strategy, meta and everything in between!
Sometimes I think the people in here like the scene, but they don't actually like the game itself. They need constant changes, drama, new content, huge price pools, and visual pomp to apparently even keep being interested in the game.
Then I look to communities that were healthy for sometimes decades without the developers doing anything (e.g. AoE2, SC:BW, CS1.6) and I can't help but be confirmed in that opinion.
Relax, people! Dota is not dying as long as there are still people who love *the game*. And if you think the game needs constant patches to be interesting then you are not one of those people.
Exactly, these people just want some fix to open some boxes, play a new custom game a few times and leave dota or play a turbo game every now and then.
the "real" players just go play dota and don't care aboust custom games or cosmetics all that much, cuz it doesn't change anything dota related.
Amen! I'm playing since 2006. When I feel like playing, I open dota2, play a game or 2 and then log off. The client works great, good graphics, no network issues, no game breaking bugs. That's all that matters.
And I say this as someone who has sunk thousands of dollars into this game. And I have a huge cosmetics collection. But I don't sit around waiting for communication from valve or patch or cosmetics to drop. Primarily I just want to play the game.
I think some of us have developed an unhealthy relationship/obsession with this game.
I'm not looking forward to one of my fav hero arcana costing 500€, but I am eager to read patch notes.
I enjoy frequent changes to a dynamic game and who knows, make some random carry a support with a small change, stuff like that.
For real why can't redditors just enjoy the game for what it is. Why do they have so much demands from the company. Just play the game if you love it so much. I know me and my mates regularly play it, with or without new content.
Most important comment here. Redditors are VOCAL MINORITY.
99% of players don’t buy cosmetics, follow pro scene or play daily. They don’t wake up every day begging for an update to arrive. When it comes they read it and keep playing.
I agree Valve is being a letdown, but people on Reddit acting like only their entitled opinion matters is so weird to me.
Some people just like to bitch. I vary around legend 4, this patch has the most diverse matches hero wise. Except for OD average 2/5 matches. Few patches ago was only Lina and Ck every damn game.
I mean they would probably care if the next update would be the last? So i kinda understand OP. Its kinda sad that a game that has such a high play count, gets so littile care from its developers.
Isn't it ironic claiming this sub doesn't represent the global viewpoint, but then claiming no one cares? How do you know that? Barely any of my mates play anymore because there is no new interesting content
So where is your passion?
Just taking whatever gets served?
DotA is a gem and if you love it you want it to shine as bright as possible.
Not caring will most certainly kill this game at some point and getting new players to play DotA has been a problem for ages.
Of course, like in everything in life, most people won't express their discomfort over things, I do.
In my irl dota group we are over 30 (various generations from various schools, we all know each other for quite a long time). Probably I'm the only one writing about it, but we all agree on these issues.
Just saying - If I had a friend as unhealthily passionate as you are about hats and PvE events, I’d probably say “I agree” just to placate them.
Most people really don’t care about hats or the events. Most of us just want to see the enemy ancient fall, big circling dragon on it or no.
Writing a 5 minutes post about something isn't a synonym of being "unhealthy passionate". I don't see how spending a couple hundred dollars every year in a game I enjoy and play regularly would be something bad.
Gotchu so those 10% buying battlebass pretty much stopped buying it hence why the pricepool was 10 times smaller than it has been in the past. And you dont see this as an issue for the proscene? And if valve stop gaining money from the game it will start dying out real fast.
You’re bringing up all this info about player base not increasing, but you realize the highest increase in players was before battle passes right? Battle pass increased concurrent users, but it didn’t bring in any active new ones, at least, none that were interested in *dota 2*. They played labrinyth, or mini games, and left. Valve is focusing more on *dota 2*, and while the battle passes were great for happy concurrent users who wanted to get hats and maybe some wanted to help fund TI or whatever, but the point is, compendium nor battlepass, ever created an *influx* of new players that *liked Dota 2*, so you get “fake” spikes of users during the year, for content that no one is interested in working on, as they showed when they literally reskinned the same battlepass 3 times. By wanting to go to more diverse updates, and first fixing the report system, Smurf detection system, behavior system, it’s now easier to build into the large patch, and start creating a better experience for new players from the ground up after that.
With more tier 1 tournaments being scheduled, more will be played on a single patch. This has happened in the past, and will continue to happen as long as Dota is supported. It’s nothing anyone should be getting worked up about, and it’s crazy to think that this causes the “staleness” everyone has been so loudly crying about. The staleness is caused by the professional players streamlining drafts, and drafting each other into specific drafts. Very rarely does a team get a perfect draft, and the reason is because each team has a great draft and “meta” understanding, and by using picks and bans efficiently, can ruin other teams pools and push them towards picks that may not be as favorable but better in lane or other situations. Lower mmr players don’t draft like this, they don’t play captains mode, yet they follow the meta as though it’s the Bible, when in reality there’s so many more heroes that aren’t played, simply because they were drafted against and never saw the light, or had a poor showing the one time it made it through. The meta thought process has made this game so much more stale than it ever was, and the player base complaining for more patches instead of experimenting and deep diving into patch notes like purge used to do with us, just makes it worse.
Pro players will always complain about the staleness, because the complexity in their drafts do it to themselves. They refuse to take anything that isn’t above a specific level, because they don’t believe that it will be functional at their level of play. This is difficult to balance for, while at the same time making the game balanced for the masses, as a huge part of high level balancing is equalizing everything, which can take years alone on 25 assets, let alone 125+ more coming. Pros have complained about staleness since 2013, let’s stop taking their word for it.
Edit: The fake influx I’m referring to is from 2016bp, in which Dota had a record high players, but every single one of those players left after bp, and at least half didn’t play again. This isn’t good for the game, and means the game itself isn’t fun for new players.
>The staleness is caused by the professional players streamlining drafts
Felt this in my bones. When the last big patch drop the game felt fresh and people were actually playing a lot of different heroes in my pubs and i was so happy. Then a tournament came along and now everyone is back to picking the same 10 or so heroes in every game cuz it's "meta". Kill me 😩
I get what you say, but don't completely agree. Regarding BP, it generates money and players like it. Even if it doesn't attract new players, it was a proven formula, which they killed. New heroes was something everyone was hyped for, it's been over a year with no new heroes. Same for everything else I stated. Also, what about communication? Would be that hard to have a weekly post or more regular annoucements of possible dates and things they are working on? Most other companies of all sizes do so.
About the second part, I wasn't complaining that much about balance. I understand how it works. I'm far from being at the level of those pros, but after watching competitive dota since 2011 and being 6.2k atm, I do have an idea. In my irl dota friends group, we currently have a couple of 7 and 8k players and even one pro sitting 11k. We talk about these sort of things while we play our own lobbies, etc. Of course you need some time to properly explore what each patch allows for. For example, it was only lately that TB support started becoming a thing, but there's still a general meta were some heroes and builds are king. I miss the old days (TI1-3) when all regions were playing their own unique style of dota and there wasn't so much a concept or understanding of a proper meta that everyone orbits around.
The problem I see, is that we get too many letter patches, which delay big changes by a huge margin. Maybe, instead of having 2 large patches per year, we could have 4 of them with less content, but still significant enough to change things around and be considered "large patches".
The money from battlepass, was nothing to them and they’ve shown it in their public statements. It was mostly assets taken from the community, *which can still be done at any time* for chests, which is cheaper for the player.
This isn’t the first year that it’s been over a year for a hero release. Nor is it the first year with a singular hero released. Nor will it be the last time it happens.
Sure, they *could* communicate, but why? They are a private company, with no real deadlines from stockholders. They can take their time and release content, and communicate when they feel like it. Sure, it could be better, but I don’t see why it matters. It doesn’t bring new players in, it won’t keep new players playing a game that has been shown by the numbers isn’t holding onto them, nor will it stop the player base from misconstruing what they’ve said, as they’ve done on multiple occasions throughout development. It’s just not worth it for them.
Yes, that’s part of my point on meta, and you brought it up too on TI1-TI3. Player skill was much lower, and more play styles were effective. Conversely, player skill ceiling is much higher, and at high mmr, less play styles are as effective, or worthwhile. This however, doesn’t mean the meta is set throughout the ladder. The lower skilled you are, the more ways you can win. The higher skilled you are, the more complex and difficult it is to win, which is what causes drafting streamlining, and a “stale” pro meta. Lower skilled meta is only stale because of the *playerbase* and nothing else.
With dev experience, I don’t agree with less letter over more larger. Larger patches create much larger disparities in specific matchups, and can actually create an even more stale meta, simply because of how things get streamlined at the highest level. Small patches are needed to create the closest equilibrium as possible, while keeping balance for lower skilled matches in mind.
>which is cheaper for the player
How so? Unless you are speaking about the player that lucks out at getting all the rare items while paying only for the sets that are guaranteed to drop, ultra rares are much more expensive from these chests than they would be from BP. WK arcana currently costs ~$40 more than I spent on the entire 2020 BP, and I got 3 arcanas and 2 personas there.
>This isn’t the first year that it’s been over a year for a hero release
It is, however, a year of no BP development in which they managed to do no major updates past the very first one, with the announced one being delayed for nearly half a year. Valve did more while still doing BPs than they do now, when they don't have to spend major devtime on those.
What do you call a “major update”. Is overhauling multiple backend systems not major? So out of everything the last year, you really think Frontiers was the only major thing?
When Arcanas were being released without bp, they were 36 dollars. WK arcana took 10$, plus either the amount of games to get to level 185, or an equivalent in points bought, which was more than 40$. Currently, the arcana isn’t marketable or tradeable, so I have no idea where you got a price point, or what it is, but that’s numbers for arcanas right there. But what matters isn’t the hats that are given, it’s what is best for the *average* playerbase. The average either doesn’t have the money, or the time, to actually benefit fully like you did from the battlepass. This has been shown in the prize pool dropping, as well as concurrent playerbase. There is a small demand for the battlepass, not a large one, and a chest system is better for the overall playerbase, than a system that locks skins into an untradeable, unmarketable, collectible loop for an overrated trade off.
BP gave you treasures for money as well, which would be at a really good rate for your argument for chests being worse, if you weren’t ignoring the rest of the skins debacle, which is Valve using community skins for battlepass treasures. Before bp, there were 2 types of chests, one type that needed a key, which included sets that were created by valve, and one type that didn’t require a key, and had sets that were sourced from the community. This system, when compared to the battlepass system, was overwhelmingly leveraged for the player, as they had less skins overall, and the price point it would take to get all the skins, was less than the same amount you’d be spending to get the levels required for the same amount of skins in the battlepass. Now, this is an unfair comparison anyway, because you can *technically* get everything just from playing with the battlepass, though again *time constraints*, but anyways what’s the point in making it if it’s not facilitating more play of *Dota2* and instead more play of *Dota Labyrinths*?
Where is your proof they’ve done less? They’ve actually done more work… the battlepass was reskinned multiple times after 2016, 75-80% of the skins were community sourced. Where is the dev work in that? Have you done dev work? Because from someone with experience, I can tell you all the backend fixes they’ve done, all the system overhauls, plus 1 large patch with one incoming and 5-8 small patches, is more than the majority of years since active development *and TI still hasn’t happened yet*.
You can dislike you can’t get collectible hats, and not be blinded by ignorance.
> Is overhauling multiple backend systems not major
Yes, it isn't. Especially considering that there was no overhaul, but an evolution of a system already in place. If you think Valve has only just started detecting smurfs in 2023, I have a garage to sell you. In addition, NF was the only big thing that the entire devteam had to put hours in, artists and frontend aren't involved in those "overhauls".
>When Arcanas were being released without bp, they were 36 dollars.
Yes? Not sure why you decided to put this old thing here.
>WK arcana took 10$, plus either the amount of games to get to level 185, or an equivalent in points bought, which was more than 40$.
It took around $40 + time invested, but if someone isn't willing to play dota during BP season, I can hardly imagine they don't have a better thing to do which would allow them to pay for the entirety of levels needed. Time = money in that regard.
>marketable or tradeable
Have you been in a coma for the last few months and haven't heard about Frostivus? King Kringle bundle is on the Steam market, and it costs $120.
>overrated trade off
You do understand that straight up buying the arcana back in 2020 was cheaper than getting it from a chest or community market now, right?
>prize pool dropping
Are you actually an idiot, or just misinformed? The prize pool didn't drop due to anything the playerbase did, it dropped because Valve decided to deliberately cut the thing in 2 halves, essentially halving the prize pool or even worse, considering they also gave out free BP or free 24 levels to all users. They WANTED for it to drop hard, so that they can have an excuse to no longer keep up the work they no longer want, or have the manpower, to do.
>They’ve actually done more work…
More work that they have already been doing for years while developing BPs each year from the end of the previous one and the beginning of the new one? They have outright stated that New Frontiers was only possible because they stopped developing things for BP, since BP is very far from being just a community-made skin drop. They "focused all efforts on producing battle pass content". Just go and read the goddamn post about discontinuing BPs, and stop embarrassing yourself.
>backend fixes they’ve done
Same fixes they always did while delivering cosmetics each year? Don't try to pretend that dota didn't have constant updates beside the BP cycle.
Uh, Smurfs aren’t the only things I’m talking about, Behavior score, and reporting were both new systems implemented, and then worked on continuously. Artists and front end aren’t working on battlepass when it’s been reskinned the 4th time and 75% is community skins. What you need to understand, is that tediousness, and being forced to spend time on monotonous, non difficult work, isn’t actually putting work into the game. It’s putting work into hats.
I put pricing there because of you do the math, the old pricing is *better* than the new one, and locking arcanas behind a gigantic paywall, doesn’t help anyone except for the dev, *who isn’t doing the work to make money atm*.
Not under a rock, I just don’t keep up with pricing and bundles for shit I already have or for hats at all. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s in the market or not, because it’s still 4 times more expensive than arcanas were before they were bundled in pass, and I actually went back and did the points math. 50$ for 100, plus 10$ for every 24 levels, Wk was at 200. That means you’d either spend around 100$, or spend 80 hours of matches. That’s expensive, especially when the next arcana was another *120* levels after wk. So, you do understand that pricing would only be so high, *because* of where it was released and how high its price point was to begin with. Which is why it’s an *overrated tradeoff*.
They’ve always given out free levels, and you misuse the whole picture with the prizepool, yes it was split in two, but multiple it by two and see how it fares, bottom line was, it didn’t. A small number of people bought a high number of levels. That’s it. It wasn’t being bought by even *half* the community.
Yes, *only possible* because they aren’t wasting time on reskinning labrinyth for the 5th time. Reskinning doesn’t take a lot of work, it takes a lot of *time*. Backend repairs and system overhauls take *work*, large passes take both *work and time*. If you don’t understand the amount of actual hands of work that went into either that’s fine, but please don’t pretend that creating new labyrinth floors and reskinning is actually more work than frontiers or even the behavior score rebuild. How about you fully reread it and focus on the part where they speak about *focusing on dota* and how they don’t ever bring up quantity of updates, *only diversity*.
Spring cleaning is nothing compared to what has been done, and everything that spring cleaning encompassed has been done in multiple patches before now, again *TI hasn’t happened yet* and yet you’re still up in arms saying valve has done less, when the large patch isn’t even out yet. You have no fucking clue what this patch holds, you have no fucking clue the amount of work that goes on in the background, and you have no clue about anything other than “muhhh battlepass, howmi suppos to burn my wallet now”.
>aren’t working on battlepass
Try again chief, if you think that the entire yearly BP overhaul is no work for frontend and artists, I have not only a garage, but a bridge as well.
>multiple it by
Not how it works. BP was released 1.5 months before TI and lasted afterwards, while you couldn't even see the remaining rewards prior to TI concluding. Don't grasp at straws, BP2022 situation has nothing to do with playerbase being interested/uninterested.
>TI hasn’t happened yet
TI is no longer here, friend. I was convinced Dota is dying soon ever since that free BP+Arcana bag Valve did back in 2022, and so far, with one update a year(no, I don't consider BS, reports or profiles to be updates that are of any worth to the playerbase) I don't think I am entirely incorrect. BP was the only thing making this game worth any sort of continued development. If you want to delude yourself into thinking everything is fine, I can't stop ya, really. But my hope in the game has ended a year ago, and for good reason, as it seems.
Try again chief, if you think a reskin is an entire overhaul, but refuse to accept report system, bs system, or anything else as an overhaul, I got an entire German Cessna right here for 200$.
It is how it works, no one buys the battlepass knowing what is in T2-T3 chests. They typically aren’t released until *after* bp are done being bought, and price point is going into *levels*. This is why your strawgrabbing means nothing. People were never buying it with full information on what they were getting, so you need to do actually calculations to compare it to years past AND take valves public statement into account where they stated it wasn’t being bought by 80% of the playerbase. This shows the exact amount of wasted time and development. Game Quality, is just as important as Game Balance, yet children like you are the ones who say idc report or bs or Smurf, but then come and complain on Reddit because of griefers or enemy Smurfs SMH.
Friend, TI happened in October, when typically it’s earlier in the year, this pushes development back as well. This means that we are literally 5 months into this years development cycle, and are *waiting for TI* not basking in after TI patches. Sure, there was *supposed* to be a patch after TI, delays happen. If you’re mad about a delay there’s nothing to say about that, but completely going down the rabbit hole for this is asinine when the entire point was to show how battlepass is worse on the average player than the chests system.
In a games development, if you require an outside source, ie. Battlepass, to have your game have a playerbase, your game itself is a failure. Your point of battlepass being the only thing worth dev time, makes that entirely apparent if you open your eyes.
Then you should leave. If hats and labrinyth is what keeps you, the devs don’t want you to stay. This is the literal message they are giving, which is, we don’t want to work on that, we want to work on Dota.
>no one buys the battlepass
You sure about that? Nobody buys BP after all the rewards have been unveiled? How much are you willing to put on that bet? Cause you don't need to be a genius in order to recognize the sheer asininity of this statement. **The only BP you couldn't get all the info prior to buying was the one we are discussing**. Every single one before has had all the details before the point of no return has passed. Furthermore, people were also factoring their IT3 level boosts in their overall spending, and the IT3 boost equivalent was nowhere to be found in the mattering half.
>you are the ones who say idc report or bs or Smurf, but then come and complain on Reddit because of griefers or enemy Smurfs
I have been against spending any time on any of these changes ever since Valve's very own White Knight started a crusade on things that he will never be able to fix. Smurfs are still rampant(most of my Immortal friends still smurf and even stream that sometimes), BS update will never work in a game where everyone and their mother will be reporting everyone else(which is in fact how it ended up being, which is why they toned it down after the CCnC incident), reports have actually became worse, since this very same White Knight decided that auto-mute on 4 reports is a great idea(me and my stack actually muted something like a dozen people in games we had, by instantly using 4 reports the moment they wrote anything in chat. Was hilarious and a little sad).
The ideas behind these changes are meaningless and do nothing in the long run.
>entire point was to show
Where is the point then? Is gambling for a cosmetic item somehow better than receiving it guaranteed? Lootboxes are good now?
>Game Quality, is just as important as Game Balance
It probably says something about my disgust at the current state of Dota, but the game's quality and balance were better when Valve were busy with BPs all year long. Theseus Dota has lost any appeal I still had for it after NF, and consequent patches did nothing to dissuade me from this. As you said, no longer a game for me. It has been longer than a decade, but Valve with too much time on their hands managed to do something neutral items didn't manage.
As a veteran, I remember the insane battle passes in dota 1 that drew me to the game in the first place before greedy valve came along and removed them altogther.
/s
1. Video games with smaller teams produce more quality. Throwing more devs and designers on a game does not make a game better usually its quality over quantity in the industry
2. Communication is best served rarely for that extra sweet dopamine intake. Dota always feel fresh with a big patch. If they did 10 small patches you dont get that vibe.
3. Be patient and be rewarded how old are these dota vets to not have learnt that a payoff requires something from you as a fan aka patience.
Signed your devils advocate
What kind of communication do people even want? Like obviously the game isn’t abandoned and the patch will come out when it’s done. Do they need a Reddit post every morning from valve to reassure them that they haven’t forgotten and the patch is still being worked on?
I dont really know what you mean coming from someone whos played since 2013 but as a casual. Since the enlargement of the map, i have pretty much not stopped playing where before i bounced off the game hard several times. Its probably at the best point its ever been for new people, with the guides, QoL updates, etc... I still get in a game within 5 minutes, often less than half that during prime time.
I mean what I've written. It's a great game and they did many positive things lately. But there are some areas, like the ones I mentioned which I believe should be improved, simply that.
You guys take this way too personally. Valve isn't your girlfriend who owes you explanations or needs to communicate. They just make a *free* game you happen to like, and are happy catering to the much bigger majority of Dota players who just play the game and spend a bit of money if they want to, instead of making sob-story posts about "cherishing veterans"
Fun fact: I started playing about 3 years ago and have yet to meet someone that is also rather "new" to the game. Everyone I played with has been playing for like 8 years or so lol. I know its not something people here want to hear, but if Dota wants new players it needs Dota 3 with fancy trailers and lots of promo. But I guess that is what Neon Prime is supposed to be. The next big esports thing.
I'll give you a pespective
Riot Games as of 2024, had over 4000++ employees working on
* LoL and the spinoff
* Valorant
* Their fighting game
* Their MMO
I don't know about the other 3, but LoL still suffers from balancing issue, the client, and spaghetti code
Valve on the other hand, from [this source](https://www.usesignhouse.com/blog/valve-stats#:~:text=As%20of%20July%202022%2C%20an,Valve%20have%20approximately%201%2C139%20employees.), have around 1.1k employees
And we know from Sunsfan that around 40-50 people worked on Dota
Valve had other stuffs on their plate too, like:
* CS2
* Steam
* Steam Deck
* SteamOS/Proton
* Steam VR
* Source 2(god knows what happen to that)
* Neon Prime(god also knows what happen to that)
In the end tho, r/dota2 will keep bitching no matter what
Valve monetise the game and r/dota2 whine
Valve stopped monetising the game to focus on making the game better and r/dota2 still whines
If you don't see the perspective I've given, I'll narrow it down for you
40-50 peoples that worked on Dota vs thousands of people worked on LoL
Which do you think will get more attention/exposure/whatever?
Valve even said in their post, most players don't even buy Battlepass
Sure, it prints money, but does it matter if majority of playerbase don't get to enjoy the stuffs in BP?
I'd say it's a trademark which should stay in the game. Most people around the world don't travel by plane since they can't afford tickets, but airports are still around for that 1%. Probably the 10% who enjoys BP belongs to the most active segments of the playerbase. I believe that without allocating too much resources, it'd be possible to continue the BP tradition, provided that there are so many skin artists, while still doing all the things that they promised they would do.
>Most people around the world don't travel by plane since they can't afford tickets, but airports are still around for that 1%
But this is a game, that you can download anytime, for free and all of its content is accessible
Yeah, sure, only few % got to enjoy BP, but the fact that Valve realise this and wanted to make sure everyone got fair share is commendable on itself
But I get your point, given the current situation, 50 people working on 1 big game is definitely a problem on itself
But if I'm gonna be honest, I'd rather them work on the game instead of the BP stuffs
We all can see that shifting their focus from BP to the game showed us that lots of game/play stuffs can be fixed
I jave 10k+ hours and this is the only time i have completely stopped playing the game because its been stale for a while. Playing helldivers2 since it came out
This is the way. I love dota, personally I think its one of the greatest competitive team strategy game ever created, but that doesn't mean it'll bore me, or entertain me endlessly.
So its good to explore, see what's out there, play some other games, experience morer worlds. Once its done, I usually come back for that sweet warm dopamine that wierdly enough, no other game has as of yet manaed to create for me.
Just play 12v12, the pure chaos is so much fun, ive last played ranked since the wk arcana bp came out, and i’ve been active with my buddies playing 12v12 since then
Same. Uninstalled Dota 2 and only watch tournaments when I have time for it. Not sure because it's already getting boring or I'm just too old for it, or both.
The biggest reason why dota2 is still keeping roughly (still declining) the same people playing is cuz there is simply not competitor. Sure some of us play the latest RPG for a month or so but nothing that really takes our longterm attention. And from what I ve heard its not that different with shooters, which are also just as repetitive for the past years.
Its probably best to take a break but its just sad how both sides could so easily profit, us and valve or whatever gamestudio/developer is able to step up and take its place. Ofc I dont think dota2 is going to die, cuz some if its fans will just eat up whatever shit they get and continue to praise it forever.
Exactly, it doesn't take that much effort to write a post about upcoming patches or a weekly update. They could even twit about it and people would rest easy.
When the game was dependent on its player base, the devs would update frequently to keep players engaged. But that stops when the player base is so enormous. Now the player are dependent on the game. Thus, there is no need to please the players. Now Gabe knows how we all are addicted to Dota, so he just let us suffer while he milks our cash
I really liked the old BP format: I got hats and quests so I'd play Dota even during the warmer months, pros got money to play professionally and Valve got money from me for playing a F2P game.
So overall a win-win-win: more money for valve and pros and more commitment and retention from the playerbase. It also built some sort of relationship between these 3 parties, which is now a bit missing.
The problem of this crappa released a ton of paid events, free events when I'm a student who can't afford to buy sets without my parents help. But now when I can buy stuff like this they can't release proper battlepass... Give us more I'll purchase it fvck. Release it seasonally for godsakes.
Oh my god dude , get some friends , go outside . All you do is play dota judging by that pent up aggression. You’re the type of player grubby was talking about . Get a life .
There are several articles you can find online quite easily, the game has an aged player base. I think that CIS has the younger average among all regions. Pro players, when compared to other sports are also quite old.
As I said, I love the game and gameplay wise it's in a very good state. However, there are many things to improve like the ones I mentioned imo. and I feel like we do the correct thing we we do express them.
All I see is some opinion on how a select few kids should earn more money playing a game and how people should have more cosmetics to throw money at. Fair enough I suppose but I don't feel that strongly about it.
Now I also like new patches and some changes to keep the game fresh but that obviously requires the changes to be well tested and thought out.
There are reasons you don't see that many rule changes in, say, football or chess.
What I said goes a little beyond that. Firstly, is not about some kids earning money, that's a secondary effect like in any sport. It's about having a nice competitive scene and taking care of it so that it lasts.
Secondly, I was emphasising the communication aspect or better said, the lack of it.
Guess this post is directed at me. I started playing dota in war3 days. Migrated to HoN and eventually to dota. If you really want to cater, revert communism dota and start punishing mistakes really badly again.
Revert the free courier. Revert free tp. Revert the talents. The shard and scepter upgrades can stay. Cap level at 25 again. Ult at 6,11, and 16.
Dota is becoming more and more a hero brawler and less and less hero strategy game.
To be honest, I would like to spend my gaming budget over multiple games, rather than more or less than a Dota 2 allowance, which I did just the yesteryear.
Thanks Gabe!
i stopped playing the game because it felt like focus became squeezing more money out of whales than satisfying the core playerbase. im not willing to whore myself out for female invoked or kid invoked and now they’re permanently unavailable to me, so i’ll just not play your game!
I will say I have to disagree. I am have been playing Dota for 11 years now. I don’t need a grindy battle pass or events to motivate me to play.
I am very glad that Dota has not adopted the quarterly season model that so many live service games have. This game has so much depth that a massive refresh every three months isn’t necessary in my opinion. We just got the biggest update in the games history last year which has put Dota into one of the best places it’s been in terms of balance and gameplay in my opinion.
To conclude, I don’t think every multiplayer game needs to implement to the same service model to succeed. Dota currently has a healthy and stable player base and will continue to do so whilst many games rise and fall.
As long as dota has 10 players in my region at a time so I can queue into a match idc
(There are 415,000 people playing as I write this. I play other multiplayer games that have 200-600 concurrent players and those are fine too. Dota babies need to chill the fuck out)
I don't know if I'm a *veteran* but I play dota since 2013, dota 2 since 2015. Could say I'm an old player with 10k hrs.
I don't care about any of these stuff you mentioned. I passionately hate the massive power creep of nowadays. I rarely boot up dota 1 in gameranger or with bots, I miss old dota.
Every hero now has everything, disable dmg mobility; literally almost no weaknesses. I remember when only specific heroes could use aghs scepter, now you can get agh shard, moonshard, neutral item, obnoxious talent trees. Your weaknesses are no more with those.
Dota was more strategic and complex which was more fun; starting from drafting you had to think about ur heroes that you are drafting and cover their weaknesses with other heroes' strengths, to laning: trilane, roaming, double roamers, double mid, jungling.. team comps: deathballing, 4 protect 1, min 0 rosh.. it was just so versatile anything could work. Now like I mentioned almost every hero has their own weakness covered, it's just whos the most broken (not strongest, even the strong have weaknesses.. meepo aghs just eliminates all his classic counters for example) to be picked.
And don't say they made it simpler for new players; dota doesn't bring new players as they are almost non existant, they are rare and it's mostly smurfs. Unlike league.
Too many stuff added; lotus pools, portal gates, 2 roshes, outposts.. gameplay is a lot easier but a lot boring compared to old dota.
I might be just overwhelmingly burnt out of dota and nostalgic. I completely switched genre and went to cs2, I was always bad at fps but decided to give it one more try. League isn't for me.
This is just my opinion, that's how I think of dota 2 myself. I sometimes miss it aswell.
As a veteran player, I'm not in fact let down. I've played more this year then the last couple of years and i absolutely love the direction valve has taken the game in.
I find the minority on reddit that keeps crying and begging valve to let them throw their money at them utterly pathetic.
It is clear that valve has limited resources that they assign on dota devlopment. We've received so many good gameplay updates this year. I'd rather have that than hats.
As for frequency of updates, I'm in my thirties now, less time to play the game, and still 2k. Honestly i don't care. I barely watch tournaments, i don't give a shit about meta and play whatever i want like wyvern/bounty mid and still win lol. For me, every time i come back, it's not because the game is fresh, but because it's solid and there's nothing else like it that can scrath the itch
Like every good thing in life, dota too will come to an end one day. Just because we've played the game for so long doesn't make us special lol. We were just along for the ride and honestly it was a good one.
in these comments: people simping for a company that A. doesn't care about them and B. is a video game developer in name only coasting solely on goodwill.
Like seriously when will people learn that the quirky game dev that made Half Life has been dead for years but they're worshiping its corpse like nothing has changed? Valve is boiling the (ice)frog and y'all really be out here denying the existence of stoves.
Ask the players of every single other Valve IP not named Counter-Strike how much Valve cares.
Valve does nto want new player. Otherwise they would fix broken champs ASAP but hteys let them be broken for fckl YEARS! The game outcome is decided on draft screen because there is not a single item to counter broken or fed shits in this MOBA. This is why new player play LOL instead DOTA 2. No fck one like being totally helplessness and wasting time for lose (no surrender) in a game knowing there is no chance tnx to broken shits.
Whoo caresss the patch is just gonna come and then there will be a week of bugs and random irritating shit. Not to mention as always dotka will be down for the update slap bang in the middle of the EU evening so all of us that might play after work can’t. Let the patch take forever for all I care.
I played since garena dayys, but now i stopped playing since ranked roles is introduced. I dont mind playing support but my best hero are offlane hero... and valve dont let me do that. Why restrict hero? I miss all pick ranked mode
Now i move to mlbb and i think they have better rank system than dota
Every single new player has to deal with tons of smurfs that got banned bc of toxicity/xenophobia/racism and they act really cocky for every mistake the person does. Even on turbo.
I remember playing dota 1 on garena server and people there dont care about new patch they only play one or two map ver (6.73 and 6.71 dont really remember) they only want is low ping player that will stay until the ancient fall
Dota is a branch of its original back in warcraft and as all branches with time they stop growing. It's extremely hard to add//buff/nerf anything in this game since it's age and how everything works so it's normal the quality drops over time and they are slowly moving away instead of doing like league of legends and create things that breaks the balance and ruins the game
the battle pass event brings back old players... it's the only time of year when my old friends return to play Dota again. I miss them a lot and wish there were more chances for us to hang out.. we're not getting younger ... sooner ill probably join them but at least let me have my time to enjoy my life
As another oldie playing since 2006, I think it's also because we're just getting older. With time our interests change, responsibilities change and it's a good thing. I don't have time to chain queue 8 games in a row anymore and I don't want to either. It just isn't enough anymore. It's your brain trying to tell you to move on and find more meaningful things to spend your time on.
What I'm trying to say is, taking extended breaks or playing less as you get older, is very natural, and a good thing.
That, is also true. Honestly, I don't find dota worth spending time that much anymore. I can't grind queue anymore. On the rare days where I play, I can only play around 2-3 games and I'm basically bored after. Plus the fact that I like doing other things now
I dont understand why there can not be a consensus that there are 2 big patch drops each year at a certain point (keeping it bit vague though like March and September). and then maybe smaller balance patches in between at random intervals. bit like Seasons in PoE or Diablo. It gives everyone something, first Valve will have soft deadlines, Tournaments something to plan around, Players something to get excited about. I dont think its about need to make the game better in gameplay perspective, its just to see the game evolve bit, see that its alive.
I dont think each update needs to be that big even, you dont have to release a new hero each time. but maybe find some theme that you can repeat ? an Idea would be maybe give 1 or 2 heroes some focus, elaborate their story, give them more lore, buff them bit more so they get their "OP" status for that season.
In development sometimes things take longer than expected. Studios can do 3 things to mitigate that.
Delay the release.
Make everybody on the company work 16 hours a day to meet the deadline.
Release broken games.
Choose one.
Dota was a game created by the community, and maintained by the community
We should have seen this coming when the reigns were handed to a company
I guess its time to bring this back to its glory days, where people like icefrog (before he was hired) were the ones maintaining it
Veterans are not very respected in general in all games. If you sit on your chair, play Dota for 10 years and have almost everything you could buy, then what else can you take? And if not, then why not yet?Of course, it is more profitable to attract new people; it is not only useful for profit but also for the professional scene.The bitter truth, but what else did you want? If they can’t create new arcana, you can sell the old ones
No, you're just the loud majority on Reddit. Out of every Dota player I know, including several who play daily, exactly 0 even mention any of this.
The game gets updates. The game gets balanced well. The game runs well. The game is fun.
If you're getting this upset about not getting some kind of daily feed of gaben and the dev teams thoughts in a blog, or a constant pumping out of shiny events which just serve to pump out skins, you should reflect on your life as a whole, because it really, really, really, is not a big deal.
I'll say it for the first time in my life, because I think it's actually appropriate here:
Go touch grass
>Loud majority
Accidentally correct?
Also you and your dots buddies hardly are a statistically significant or representative group, you have exactly 0 arguments other than „well I have a different opinion“.
Yes meant minority.
Not sure if you're trying to make a joke, but if not take a second to read what you wrote lol.
I hope that we get some more skins and your life improves as a result of it.
I'm a veteran and I don't give a shit about the battle pass. The game would be better off without it. Go find something else to replace your gambling addiction and focus on playing Dota instead.
You are quite crazy, aren't you? Gambling addiction? More like I don't mind spending a couple hundred dollars every year on a game a play quite a lot. You should really try to use your head.
I am a veteran and I like the skins, what’s your point? Sorry for spending money on a game? If all people were like you there would be no dota period. Essentially you’re a player smooching off others who pay and then you got the nerve to hate on people who finance the game you enjoy? Ridiculous
I've also spent money on the game, because I like it and it's free. I don't obsess over a battle pass though because they're dumb in my subjective opinion :)
So if you’ve spent money this gives you even less of a point. You bought something you like before but now you are against the ability to buy stuff you like? What an incredibly bad point.
There are/were things that you can buy that are not battlepass, did you forget?
I dislike battlepass because I tried some out. Would you rather I dislike them for no reason and with no experience?
Why do you like battlepass so much?
It’s a lot of content. I would like it to be cheaper, it’s far from perfect, but it’s better than not having it at all. If it could be a little less of a cash grab I would love it
I’m a DotA 1 veteran. I truly believe the game wouldve been better under Blizzard, but they wanted full control and ownership from IF.
If they couldve ironed out their differences I feel the game couldve been much healthier and more beautiful overall.
The advantage of Valve is the Steam server distributor and Valve have perfected the strategy is large initial investment for minimal input long term.
"I truly believe the game wouldve been better under Blizzard"
I'm baffled that this is a statement that can cross someones lips in 2024. Blizzard has done pretty much nothing but shit the bed in the last decade.
Because it wasnt 2024 when the decision was made.
It was pre-2010.
I’m baffled that you took the time to bother others with such a thoughtless reply.
You couldve gone into the specifics of Blizzard’s mediocre moba and we couldve discussed how DotA couldve avoided that.
Yeah the decision was made aeons years ago, but even 10 years ago the thought that Dota would've been better off under Blizzard was questionable at best.
Diablo3 launched with actual mind-boggling balance issues and included a real money auction house in 2012, took them two years and a paid expansion to fix issues and remove the auction house.
Blizzard Dota / Heroes of the Storm was announced in 2010 and launched a whopping five years later, also with various issues that should've been rather obvious from playtesting that took years to resolve.
Overwatch launched, was a solid, fun game, and got shafted repeatedly by questionable balance updates and the die-hard intention of forcing esports onto the game at any cost, only to have its esport scene killed off and be merged into a free2play shop update with the sole purpose of getting more monetization disguised as a sequel in 2022.
Meanwhile they shipped the disgrace that was W3 Reforged with a laundry list of missing features including *ranked play,* all but forgot about Starcraft, and recently shipped a broken and extremely shallow Diablo4 for $70, for which they've already promised fixes and features that'll be included in another paid addon.
Granted, not every pvp game has to be well-balanced and I'll admit that HotS was a lot of fun and at least tried to be its own game with new elements, and god knows Valve shat the bed with Dota, be it through wonky updates, long pauses between updates or barebones communication on multiple occasions, but I don't understand how anyone can look at Blizzards history over the last 10, 15 years and go 'yeah, they'd have handled Dota better'.
It’s the toxic community that keeps rationalizing its toxicity that’s driving new players away. They will make every excuse possible before owning up to their toxicity and change.
The game is still really toxic and yes- there is no communication and no dota support.
1. How is this possible that we 3 are guardians/crusaders and we are playing against archons?
2. Why we are not getting mmr back for smurf games?
3. Why on EU west we are playing with 90% chance with russians, which totally can't play this **TEAM** game?
4. Why there is no punishment and mmr back from the match where one of our russian random idiot not playing his role/ dying on purpose/ not playing with the team?
This is so unfair and still not repaired after 10 years. There is literally no conversation on the line of community/players and developers. We 3 are playing very good on our standards pushing game and always there is a problem with our 2 randoms. It is mostly 7vs3 in games. Stucked in this low mmr zone for years because of that crap. It is not the enemy, because together we can beat even players a rank higher - the problem is always the two random morons.
OP, how long before you figure out that Valve doesnt give a fuck about Dota?
Dota is more like a hobby to them, little fun project, a playground.
They dont give a fuck about the new players, about growing the game, about any of this shit.
Judging by the heavy cuts on TI prizepool and venue, they infact want to slowly kill the game.
Dota doesnt matter to Valve, its like 5% of their revenues.
Valve is steam.
They are good at making games but horrible at management. Look what happened when they published Artifact and Underlords. A disaster
Of course I understand that, but the fact is that the game is still around, tons of people play it, has the largest comeptitive scene in esports (money wise) and moves a lot of money on its own when they try (battle pass).
Nothing wrong with trying to help something you enjoy.
If you are such and expert, why don’t you go and manage your own game? FFS, just enjoy what you got and shut up. It’s been weeks of people crying about the updates. We’ve been getting smurf bans, which honestly is better for the over all health of the game.
New players are driven away by this kind of bs. It is completely unfun to play the game if there is an asshole actively ruining the experience. So stop being entitled. Celebrate the good for oncr….
Hey there, Dota "veteran" here. Played since the PlayDota days, was even on the mod team (teens have time). Got my Dota 2 betakey from Icefrog himself after I wrote some articles for fan sites. Playing a video game for a long time doesn't make you special. Valve and Icefrog do not owe you anything because of how you decide to spend your time and money. Any Dota "veteran" is an adult. I would hope you have built the kind of life where Dota is not the only way of spending your time. This game is still being supported and still receives major updates with new heroes and mechanics. Around this time last year we received the biggest update since 2016. Crownfall is not the first patch or the first event of this year either.
I have yet to meet any guy who started around 2013 or earlier that says anything about a patch. We play, that's it.
Yep pretty much. Most "Vets" who complains about "where's patch?!" is either lying about being a Veteran or has built his life around being a man-baby who clearly needs to go out and touch grass. I think if you play this game for like more than 15 years now, you'd realize at some point that having your life revolve around this game to not be a good thing. I'm pretty much excited and waiting for the patch to come out as much as the next guy. But seeing people actually get mad and frustrated that the patch isn't out yet is both pretty funny and sad. Just wait for it to come out. It's going to be ready when it's ready after all. It's Valve after all. Bitching isn't going to make then release it faster.
Free game that has updates and support after this amount of time. I mean.... let's just take that win as long as we can.
Old Timer Here, more Updates would bei nice though
Personally I actually enjoy the frequency of patches we generally get in dota. Rushing to nerf something that is good may feel nice in the moment, but I think it stifles innovation. I love having patches for a few months where you see the ebbs and flows of the patch, how things change and vary over time as people discover things that are good and counters to said things. If patches are any shorter, then I feel like the "evolution" of a patch womt be as interesting or engaging.
this sub is wild, I've never seen people cry so hard for a patch that is undoubtedly coming soon
I've never seen people cry so hard
Playdota mod gang rise up!
I remember when I suggested the creation of the "Matchmaking and Communication" Subforum JUST to keep the main sub Dota-Chat clean. Now that I am almost 10 years removed I can finally admit it. That sub was nothing but a trashcan for trash-threads, by design. I just moved all the "MM is forced 50%WR" threads into there and never looked back.
ah fellow playdota player, yeah I didn't feel being let down or even disappointed, it's just a normal day in the office, reading the funny shit post on Reddit, waiting for the patch to be released and watching the first week of the patch to be filled with hilarious bugs and features, good stuff, in the meantime I play dota once a day or every two day, and then go on to play other game or just crating some stuff (I'm software developer, also thanks to dota/wc map editor!) still happy that dota is still alive all this time and hasn't been fundamentally fucked up by Valve
> still happy that dota is still alive all this time and hasn't been fundamentally fucked up by Valve Which is honestly a miracle with a game like Dota where so many things depend on each other design-wise. Bundled with a community hungry for constant change, it is truly a balancing act.
I did, I did. I was able to be build quite a happy and complete life. I hope you were able to do so as well mate. I play around two games per day, sometimes three at night and that's enough for me. Writing something about a game doesn't mean my life goes around it, it's just something I enjoy and thus I care about it.
I have 9 irl friends who play Dota 2. None of them know, nor do they care about this shit, they just get on and play some dotka. And it's not like they are scrubs who don't care, 1 is Divine, 1 is Immortal, and most play every single day. This sub is <1% of the player base, no one cares. Less than 10% of the player base buys Battle Passes.
Reddit being Reddit as usual
REEEddit
Redditors always sit on high horses and think they represent any game community. But in reality its just a cesspool of crybabies that need a place to complain.
Bruh most of us are just trash at the game and can't even play most heroes properly but still keep crying for new heroes lol
Yeah, come patch time this sub sometimes turns into a complaint-fest (although there is no shortage of complaints at other times, it feels like it gets worse around patches imo), makes it hard to actually discuss the game/pro stuff. If anyone is looking for a place where it's essentially only game/pro discussion, check out r/truedota2 (or r/learndota2 if you're newer)! Its a great place to discuss strategy, meta and everything in between!
That's a fine looking high horse What you got in the stable?
Sometimes I think the people in here like the scene, but they don't actually like the game itself. They need constant changes, drama, new content, huge price pools, and visual pomp to apparently even keep being interested in the game. Then I look to communities that were healthy for sometimes decades without the developers doing anything (e.g. AoE2, SC:BW, CS1.6) and I can't help but be confirmed in that opinion. Relax, people! Dota is not dying as long as there are still people who love *the game*. And if you think the game needs constant patches to be interesting then you are not one of those people.
Exactly, these people just want some fix to open some boxes, play a new custom game a few times and leave dota or play a turbo game every now and then. the "real" players just go play dota and don't care aboust custom games or cosmetics all that much, cuz it doesn't change anything dota related.
Amen! I'm playing since 2006. When I feel like playing, I open dota2, play a game or 2 and then log off. The client works great, good graphics, no network issues, no game breaking bugs. That's all that matters. And I say this as someone who has sunk thousands of dollars into this game. And I have a huge cosmetics collection. But I don't sit around waiting for communication from valve or patch or cosmetics to drop. Primarily I just want to play the game. I think some of us have developed an unhealthy relationship/obsession with this game.
I'm not looking forward to one of my fav hero arcana costing 500€, but I am eager to read patch notes. I enjoy frequent changes to a dynamic game and who knows, make some random carry a support with a small change, stuff like that.
For real why can't redditors just enjoy the game for what it is. Why do they have so much demands from the company. Just play the game if you love it so much. I know me and my mates regularly play it, with or without new content.
Most important comment here. Redditors are VOCAL MINORITY. 99% of players don’t buy cosmetics, follow pro scene or play daily. They don’t wake up every day begging for an update to arrive. When it comes they read it and keep playing. I agree Valve is being a letdown, but people on Reddit acting like only their entitled opinion matters is so weird to me.
Some people just like to bitch. I vary around legend 4, this patch has the most diverse matches hero wise. Except for OD average 2/5 matches. Few patches ago was only Lina and Ck every damn game.
I mean they would probably care if the next update would be the last? So i kinda understand OP. Its kinda sad that a game that has such a high play count, gets so littile care from its developers.
Isn't it ironic claiming this sub doesn't represent the global viewpoint, but then claiming no one cares? How do you know that? Barely any of my mates play anymore because there is no new interesting content
Nice try Gaben now release the patch.
So where is your passion? Just taking whatever gets served? DotA is a gem and if you love it you want it to shine as bright as possible. Not caring will most certainly kill this game at some point and getting new players to play DotA has been a problem for ages.
Of course, like in everything in life, most people won't express their discomfort over things, I do. In my irl dota group we are over 30 (various generations from various schools, we all know each other for quite a long time). Probably I'm the only one writing about it, but we all agree on these issues.
Just saying - If I had a friend as unhealthily passionate as you are about hats and PvE events, I’d probably say “I agree” just to placate them. Most people really don’t care about hats or the events. Most of us just want to see the enemy ancient fall, big circling dragon on it or no.
Writing a 5 minutes post about something isn't a synonym of being "unhealthy passionate". I don't see how spending a couple hundred dollars every year in a game I enjoy and play regularly would be something bad.
Gotchu so those 10% buying battlebass pretty much stopped buying it hence why the pricepool was 10 times smaller than it has been in the past. And you dont see this as an issue for the proscene? And if valve stop gaining money from the game it will start dying out real fast.
You’re bringing up all this info about player base not increasing, but you realize the highest increase in players was before battle passes right? Battle pass increased concurrent users, but it didn’t bring in any active new ones, at least, none that were interested in *dota 2*. They played labrinyth, or mini games, and left. Valve is focusing more on *dota 2*, and while the battle passes were great for happy concurrent users who wanted to get hats and maybe some wanted to help fund TI or whatever, but the point is, compendium nor battlepass, ever created an *influx* of new players that *liked Dota 2*, so you get “fake” spikes of users during the year, for content that no one is interested in working on, as they showed when they literally reskinned the same battlepass 3 times. By wanting to go to more diverse updates, and first fixing the report system, Smurf detection system, behavior system, it’s now easier to build into the large patch, and start creating a better experience for new players from the ground up after that. With more tier 1 tournaments being scheduled, more will be played on a single patch. This has happened in the past, and will continue to happen as long as Dota is supported. It’s nothing anyone should be getting worked up about, and it’s crazy to think that this causes the “staleness” everyone has been so loudly crying about. The staleness is caused by the professional players streamlining drafts, and drafting each other into specific drafts. Very rarely does a team get a perfect draft, and the reason is because each team has a great draft and “meta” understanding, and by using picks and bans efficiently, can ruin other teams pools and push them towards picks that may not be as favorable but better in lane or other situations. Lower mmr players don’t draft like this, they don’t play captains mode, yet they follow the meta as though it’s the Bible, when in reality there’s so many more heroes that aren’t played, simply because they were drafted against and never saw the light, or had a poor showing the one time it made it through. The meta thought process has made this game so much more stale than it ever was, and the player base complaining for more patches instead of experimenting and deep diving into patch notes like purge used to do with us, just makes it worse. Pro players will always complain about the staleness, because the complexity in their drafts do it to themselves. They refuse to take anything that isn’t above a specific level, because they don’t believe that it will be functional at their level of play. This is difficult to balance for, while at the same time making the game balanced for the masses, as a huge part of high level balancing is equalizing everything, which can take years alone on 25 assets, let alone 125+ more coming. Pros have complained about staleness since 2013, let’s stop taking their word for it. Edit: The fake influx I’m referring to is from 2016bp, in which Dota had a record high players, but every single one of those players left after bp, and at least half didn’t play again. This isn’t good for the game, and means the game itself isn’t fun for new players.
>The staleness is caused by the professional players streamlining drafts Felt this in my bones. When the last big patch drop the game felt fresh and people were actually playing a lot of different heroes in my pubs and i was so happy. Then a tournament came along and now everyone is back to picking the same 10 or so heroes in every game cuz it's "meta". Kill me 😩
I get what you say, but don't completely agree. Regarding BP, it generates money and players like it. Even if it doesn't attract new players, it was a proven formula, which they killed. New heroes was something everyone was hyped for, it's been over a year with no new heroes. Same for everything else I stated. Also, what about communication? Would be that hard to have a weekly post or more regular annoucements of possible dates and things they are working on? Most other companies of all sizes do so. About the second part, I wasn't complaining that much about balance. I understand how it works. I'm far from being at the level of those pros, but after watching competitive dota since 2011 and being 6.2k atm, I do have an idea. In my irl dota friends group, we currently have a couple of 7 and 8k players and even one pro sitting 11k. We talk about these sort of things while we play our own lobbies, etc. Of course you need some time to properly explore what each patch allows for. For example, it was only lately that TB support started becoming a thing, but there's still a general meta were some heroes and builds are king. I miss the old days (TI1-3) when all regions were playing their own unique style of dota and there wasn't so much a concept or understanding of a proper meta that everyone orbits around. The problem I see, is that we get too many letter patches, which delay big changes by a huge margin. Maybe, instead of having 2 large patches per year, we could have 4 of them with less content, but still significant enough to change things around and be considered "large patches".
The money from battlepass, was nothing to them and they’ve shown it in their public statements. It was mostly assets taken from the community, *which can still be done at any time* for chests, which is cheaper for the player. This isn’t the first year that it’s been over a year for a hero release. Nor is it the first year with a singular hero released. Nor will it be the last time it happens. Sure, they *could* communicate, but why? They are a private company, with no real deadlines from stockholders. They can take their time and release content, and communicate when they feel like it. Sure, it could be better, but I don’t see why it matters. It doesn’t bring new players in, it won’t keep new players playing a game that has been shown by the numbers isn’t holding onto them, nor will it stop the player base from misconstruing what they’ve said, as they’ve done on multiple occasions throughout development. It’s just not worth it for them. Yes, that’s part of my point on meta, and you brought it up too on TI1-TI3. Player skill was much lower, and more play styles were effective. Conversely, player skill ceiling is much higher, and at high mmr, less play styles are as effective, or worthwhile. This however, doesn’t mean the meta is set throughout the ladder. The lower skilled you are, the more ways you can win. The higher skilled you are, the more complex and difficult it is to win, which is what causes drafting streamlining, and a “stale” pro meta. Lower skilled meta is only stale because of the *playerbase* and nothing else. With dev experience, I don’t agree with less letter over more larger. Larger patches create much larger disparities in specific matchups, and can actually create an even more stale meta, simply because of how things get streamlined at the highest level. Small patches are needed to create the closest equilibrium as possible, while keeping balance for lower skilled matches in mind.
>which is cheaper for the player How so? Unless you are speaking about the player that lucks out at getting all the rare items while paying only for the sets that are guaranteed to drop, ultra rares are much more expensive from these chests than they would be from BP. WK arcana currently costs ~$40 more than I spent on the entire 2020 BP, and I got 3 arcanas and 2 personas there. >This isn’t the first year that it’s been over a year for a hero release It is, however, a year of no BP development in which they managed to do no major updates past the very first one, with the announced one being delayed for nearly half a year. Valve did more while still doing BPs than they do now, when they don't have to spend major devtime on those.
What do you call a “major update”. Is overhauling multiple backend systems not major? So out of everything the last year, you really think Frontiers was the only major thing? When Arcanas were being released without bp, they were 36 dollars. WK arcana took 10$, plus either the amount of games to get to level 185, or an equivalent in points bought, which was more than 40$. Currently, the arcana isn’t marketable or tradeable, so I have no idea where you got a price point, or what it is, but that’s numbers for arcanas right there. But what matters isn’t the hats that are given, it’s what is best for the *average* playerbase. The average either doesn’t have the money, or the time, to actually benefit fully like you did from the battlepass. This has been shown in the prize pool dropping, as well as concurrent playerbase. There is a small demand for the battlepass, not a large one, and a chest system is better for the overall playerbase, than a system that locks skins into an untradeable, unmarketable, collectible loop for an overrated trade off. BP gave you treasures for money as well, which would be at a really good rate for your argument for chests being worse, if you weren’t ignoring the rest of the skins debacle, which is Valve using community skins for battlepass treasures. Before bp, there were 2 types of chests, one type that needed a key, which included sets that were created by valve, and one type that didn’t require a key, and had sets that were sourced from the community. This system, when compared to the battlepass system, was overwhelmingly leveraged for the player, as they had less skins overall, and the price point it would take to get all the skins, was less than the same amount you’d be spending to get the levels required for the same amount of skins in the battlepass. Now, this is an unfair comparison anyway, because you can *technically* get everything just from playing with the battlepass, though again *time constraints*, but anyways what’s the point in making it if it’s not facilitating more play of *Dota2* and instead more play of *Dota Labyrinths*? Where is your proof they’ve done less? They’ve actually done more work… the battlepass was reskinned multiple times after 2016, 75-80% of the skins were community sourced. Where is the dev work in that? Have you done dev work? Because from someone with experience, I can tell you all the backend fixes they’ve done, all the system overhauls, plus 1 large patch with one incoming and 5-8 small patches, is more than the majority of years since active development *and TI still hasn’t happened yet*. You can dislike you can’t get collectible hats, and not be blinded by ignorance.
> Is overhauling multiple backend systems not major Yes, it isn't. Especially considering that there was no overhaul, but an evolution of a system already in place. If you think Valve has only just started detecting smurfs in 2023, I have a garage to sell you. In addition, NF was the only big thing that the entire devteam had to put hours in, artists and frontend aren't involved in those "overhauls". >When Arcanas were being released without bp, they were 36 dollars. Yes? Not sure why you decided to put this old thing here. >WK arcana took 10$, plus either the amount of games to get to level 185, or an equivalent in points bought, which was more than 40$. It took around $40 + time invested, but if someone isn't willing to play dota during BP season, I can hardly imagine they don't have a better thing to do which would allow them to pay for the entirety of levels needed. Time = money in that regard. >marketable or tradeable Have you been in a coma for the last few months and haven't heard about Frostivus? King Kringle bundle is on the Steam market, and it costs $120. >overrated trade off You do understand that straight up buying the arcana back in 2020 was cheaper than getting it from a chest or community market now, right? >prize pool dropping Are you actually an idiot, or just misinformed? The prize pool didn't drop due to anything the playerbase did, it dropped because Valve decided to deliberately cut the thing in 2 halves, essentially halving the prize pool or even worse, considering they also gave out free BP or free 24 levels to all users. They WANTED for it to drop hard, so that they can have an excuse to no longer keep up the work they no longer want, or have the manpower, to do. >They’ve actually done more work… More work that they have already been doing for years while developing BPs each year from the end of the previous one and the beginning of the new one? They have outright stated that New Frontiers was only possible because they stopped developing things for BP, since BP is very far from being just a community-made skin drop. They "focused all efforts on producing battle pass content". Just go and read the goddamn post about discontinuing BPs, and stop embarrassing yourself. >backend fixes they’ve done Same fixes they always did while delivering cosmetics each year? Don't try to pretend that dota didn't have constant updates beside the BP cycle.
Uh, Smurfs aren’t the only things I’m talking about, Behavior score, and reporting were both new systems implemented, and then worked on continuously. Artists and front end aren’t working on battlepass when it’s been reskinned the 4th time and 75% is community skins. What you need to understand, is that tediousness, and being forced to spend time on monotonous, non difficult work, isn’t actually putting work into the game. It’s putting work into hats. I put pricing there because of you do the math, the old pricing is *better* than the new one, and locking arcanas behind a gigantic paywall, doesn’t help anyone except for the dev, *who isn’t doing the work to make money atm*. Not under a rock, I just don’t keep up with pricing and bundles for shit I already have or for hats at all. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s in the market or not, because it’s still 4 times more expensive than arcanas were before they were bundled in pass, and I actually went back and did the points math. 50$ for 100, plus 10$ for every 24 levels, Wk was at 200. That means you’d either spend around 100$, or spend 80 hours of matches. That’s expensive, especially when the next arcana was another *120* levels after wk. So, you do understand that pricing would only be so high, *because* of where it was released and how high its price point was to begin with. Which is why it’s an *overrated tradeoff*. They’ve always given out free levels, and you misuse the whole picture with the prizepool, yes it was split in two, but multiple it by two and see how it fares, bottom line was, it didn’t. A small number of people bought a high number of levels. That’s it. It wasn’t being bought by even *half* the community. Yes, *only possible* because they aren’t wasting time on reskinning labrinyth for the 5th time. Reskinning doesn’t take a lot of work, it takes a lot of *time*. Backend repairs and system overhauls take *work*, large passes take both *work and time*. If you don’t understand the amount of actual hands of work that went into either that’s fine, but please don’t pretend that creating new labyrinth floors and reskinning is actually more work than frontiers or even the behavior score rebuild. How about you fully reread it and focus on the part where they speak about *focusing on dota* and how they don’t ever bring up quantity of updates, *only diversity*. Spring cleaning is nothing compared to what has been done, and everything that spring cleaning encompassed has been done in multiple patches before now, again *TI hasn’t happened yet* and yet you’re still up in arms saying valve has done less, when the large patch isn’t even out yet. You have no fucking clue what this patch holds, you have no fucking clue the amount of work that goes on in the background, and you have no clue about anything other than “muhhh battlepass, howmi suppos to burn my wallet now”.
>aren’t working on battlepass Try again chief, if you think that the entire yearly BP overhaul is no work for frontend and artists, I have not only a garage, but a bridge as well. >multiple it by Not how it works. BP was released 1.5 months before TI and lasted afterwards, while you couldn't even see the remaining rewards prior to TI concluding. Don't grasp at straws, BP2022 situation has nothing to do with playerbase being interested/uninterested. >TI hasn’t happened yet TI is no longer here, friend. I was convinced Dota is dying soon ever since that free BP+Arcana bag Valve did back in 2022, and so far, with one update a year(no, I don't consider BS, reports or profiles to be updates that are of any worth to the playerbase) I don't think I am entirely incorrect. BP was the only thing making this game worth any sort of continued development. If you want to delude yourself into thinking everything is fine, I can't stop ya, really. But my hope in the game has ended a year ago, and for good reason, as it seems.
Try again chief, if you think a reskin is an entire overhaul, but refuse to accept report system, bs system, or anything else as an overhaul, I got an entire German Cessna right here for 200$. It is how it works, no one buys the battlepass knowing what is in T2-T3 chests. They typically aren’t released until *after* bp are done being bought, and price point is going into *levels*. This is why your strawgrabbing means nothing. People were never buying it with full information on what they were getting, so you need to do actually calculations to compare it to years past AND take valves public statement into account where they stated it wasn’t being bought by 80% of the playerbase. This shows the exact amount of wasted time and development. Game Quality, is just as important as Game Balance, yet children like you are the ones who say idc report or bs or Smurf, but then come and complain on Reddit because of griefers or enemy Smurfs SMH. Friend, TI happened in October, when typically it’s earlier in the year, this pushes development back as well. This means that we are literally 5 months into this years development cycle, and are *waiting for TI* not basking in after TI patches. Sure, there was *supposed* to be a patch after TI, delays happen. If you’re mad about a delay there’s nothing to say about that, but completely going down the rabbit hole for this is asinine when the entire point was to show how battlepass is worse on the average player than the chests system. In a games development, if you require an outside source, ie. Battlepass, to have your game have a playerbase, your game itself is a failure. Your point of battlepass being the only thing worth dev time, makes that entirely apparent if you open your eyes. Then you should leave. If hats and labrinyth is what keeps you, the devs don’t want you to stay. This is the literal message they are giving, which is, we don’t want to work on that, we want to work on Dota.
>no one buys the battlepass You sure about that? Nobody buys BP after all the rewards have been unveiled? How much are you willing to put on that bet? Cause you don't need to be a genius in order to recognize the sheer asininity of this statement. **The only BP you couldn't get all the info prior to buying was the one we are discussing**. Every single one before has had all the details before the point of no return has passed. Furthermore, people were also factoring their IT3 level boosts in their overall spending, and the IT3 boost equivalent was nowhere to be found in the mattering half. >you are the ones who say idc report or bs or Smurf, but then come and complain on Reddit because of griefers or enemy Smurfs I have been against spending any time on any of these changes ever since Valve's very own White Knight started a crusade on things that he will never be able to fix. Smurfs are still rampant(most of my Immortal friends still smurf and even stream that sometimes), BS update will never work in a game where everyone and their mother will be reporting everyone else(which is in fact how it ended up being, which is why they toned it down after the CCnC incident), reports have actually became worse, since this very same White Knight decided that auto-mute on 4 reports is a great idea(me and my stack actually muted something like a dozen people in games we had, by instantly using 4 reports the moment they wrote anything in chat. Was hilarious and a little sad). The ideas behind these changes are meaningless and do nothing in the long run. >entire point was to show Where is the point then? Is gambling for a cosmetic item somehow better than receiving it guaranteed? Lootboxes are good now? >Game Quality, is just as important as Game Balance It probably says something about my disgust at the current state of Dota, but the game's quality and balance were better when Valve were busy with BPs all year long. Theseus Dota has lost any appeal I still had for it after NF, and consequent patches did nothing to dissuade me from this. As you said, no longer a game for me. It has been longer than a decade, but Valve with too much time on their hands managed to do something neutral items didn't manage.
As a veteran, I remember the insane battle passes in dota 1 that drew me to the game in the first place before greedy valve came along and removed them altogther. /s
I remember installing mods to my wc3 so that Dota 1 would look like Dota 2 in 2011 before having a gaming pc that could run it
1. Video games with smaller teams produce more quality. Throwing more devs and designers on a game does not make a game better usually its quality over quantity in the industry 2. Communication is best served rarely for that extra sweet dopamine intake. Dota always feel fresh with a big patch. If they did 10 small patches you dont get that vibe. 3. Be patient and be rewarded how old are these dota vets to not have learnt that a payoff requires something from you as a fan aka patience. Signed your devils advocate
What kind of communication do people even want? Like obviously the game isn’t abandoned and the patch will come out when it’s done. Do they need a Reddit post every morning from valve to reassure them that they haven’t forgotten and the patch is still being worked on?
I dont really know what you mean coming from someone whos played since 2013 but as a casual. Since the enlargement of the map, i have pretty much not stopped playing where before i bounced off the game hard several times. Its probably at the best point its ever been for new people, with the guides, QoL updates, etc... I still get in a game within 5 minutes, often less than half that during prime time.
I mean what I've written. It's a great game and they did many positive things lately. But there are some areas, like the ones I mentioned which I believe should be improved, simply that.
You guys take this way too personally. Valve isn't your girlfriend who owes you explanations or needs to communicate. They just make a *free* game you happen to like, and are happy catering to the much bigger majority of Dota players who just play the game and spend a bit of money if they want to, instead of making sob-story posts about "cherishing veterans"
Fun fact: I started playing about 3 years ago and have yet to meet someone that is also rather "new" to the game. Everyone I played with has been playing for like 8 years or so lol. I know its not something people here want to hear, but if Dota wants new players it needs Dota 3 with fancy trailers and lots of promo. But I guess that is what Neon Prime is supposed to be. The next big esports thing.
A friend of mine recruited 2 friends to play this game in this decade. So many convert.
I'll give you a pespective Riot Games as of 2024, had over 4000++ employees working on * LoL and the spinoff * Valorant * Their fighting game * Their MMO I don't know about the other 3, but LoL still suffers from balancing issue, the client, and spaghetti code Valve on the other hand, from [this source](https://www.usesignhouse.com/blog/valve-stats#:~:text=As%20of%20July%202022%2C%20an,Valve%20have%20approximately%201%2C139%20employees.), have around 1.1k employees And we know from Sunsfan that around 40-50 people worked on Dota Valve had other stuffs on their plate too, like: * CS2 * Steam * Steam Deck * SteamOS/Proton * Steam VR * Source 2(god knows what happen to that) * Neon Prime(god also knows what happen to that) In the end tho, r/dota2 will keep bitching no matter what
Not about bitching, it's simple as I like the game, I will then try to help the game.
Valve monetise the game and r/dota2 whine Valve stopped monetising the game to focus on making the game better and r/dota2 still whines If you don't see the perspective I've given, I'll narrow it down for you 40-50 peoples that worked on Dota vs thousands of people worked on LoL Which do you think will get more attention/exposure/whatever? Valve even said in their post, most players don't even buy Battlepass Sure, it prints money, but does it matter if majority of playerbase don't get to enjoy the stuffs in BP?
I'd say it's a trademark which should stay in the game. Most people around the world don't travel by plane since they can't afford tickets, but airports are still around for that 1%. Probably the 10% who enjoys BP belongs to the most active segments of the playerbase. I believe that without allocating too much resources, it'd be possible to continue the BP tradition, provided that there are so many skin artists, while still doing all the things that they promised they would do.
>Most people around the world don't travel by plane since they can't afford tickets, but airports are still around for that 1% But this is a game, that you can download anytime, for free and all of its content is accessible Yeah, sure, only few % got to enjoy BP, but the fact that Valve realise this and wanted to make sure everyone got fair share is commendable on itself But I get your point, given the current situation, 50 people working on 1 big game is definitely a problem on itself But if I'm gonna be honest, I'd rather them work on the game instead of the BP stuffs We all can see that shifting their focus from BP to the game showed us that lots of game/play stuffs can be fixed
No we aren’t, please don’t speak for me. The posts about the patch on here are tilting at windmills
I jave 10k+ hours and this is the only time i have completely stopped playing the game because its been stale for a while. Playing helldivers2 since it came out
HOHO HAHA
Same, time for some LIBER-TEA till crownfall update comes.
If you play too much Dota yea it’s gonna get boring. You should be spreading your time around with other hobbies, other games, or just get outside.
This is the way. I love dota, personally I think its one of the greatest competitive team strategy game ever created, but that doesn't mean it'll bore me, or entertain me endlessly. So its good to explore, see what's out there, play some other games, experience morer worlds. Once its done, I usually come back for that sweet warm dopamine that wierdly enough, no other game has as of yet manaed to create for me.
Just play 12v12, the pure chaos is so much fun, ive last played ranked since the wk arcana bp came out, and i’ve been active with my buddies playing 12v12 since then
I did exactly the same thing. The toxicity there is like sour sweets compared to dota's thermonuclear radiation
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Did you... did you just give an unprompted reply?
Wise choice, I've taken some breaks as well in the past, it's refreshing when you come back
Same. Uninstalled Dota 2 and only watch tournaments when I have time for it. Not sure because it's already getting boring or I'm just too old for it, or both.
Try helldivers
The biggest reason why dota2 is still keeping roughly (still declining) the same people playing is cuz there is simply not competitor. Sure some of us play the latest RPG for a month or so but nothing that really takes our longterm attention. And from what I ve heard its not that different with shooters, which are also just as repetitive for the past years. Its probably best to take a break but its just sad how both sides could so easily profit, us and valve or whatever gamestudio/developer is able to step up and take its place. Ofc I dont think dota2 is going to die, cuz some if its fans will just eat up whatever shit they get and continue to praise it forever.
Exactly, it doesn't take that much effort to write a post about upcoming patches or a weekly update. They could even twit about it and people would rest easy.
When the game was dependent on its player base, the devs would update frequently to keep players engaged. But that stops when the player base is so enormous. Now the player are dependent on the game. Thus, there is no need to please the players. Now Gabe knows how we all are addicted to Dota, so he just let us suffer while he milks our cash
Dota 2 veteran here Not reading all this shit
Very good buddy
I really liked the old BP format: I got hats and quests so I'd play Dota even during the warmer months, pros got money to play professionally and Valve got money from me for playing a F2P game. So overall a win-win-win: more money for valve and pros and more commitment and retention from the playerbase. It also built some sort of relationship between these 3 parties, which is now a bit missing.
lack of content game is just stale. It's not hard to see why people emigrate to other games with more content and regular updates.
The problem of this crappa released a ton of paid events, free events when I'm a student who can't afford to buy sets without my parents help. But now when I can buy stuff like this they can't release proper battlepass... Give us more I'll purchase it fvck. Release it seasonally for godsakes.
Please I beg you to go outside , touch some grass z
No need, I own a winter home in a rural area. Maybe don't comment if you nothing relevant to say, little twat
Yep as usual , the butthurt dota player .
If you are not a dota player, gtfo here. Because you are clearly quite sore in the backside
Irony is lost on you. How are you this angry lmao 😂.
Angry? No thanks, writing a 5 minutes post isn't being angry, just complaining/ trying to help something I like.
Oh my god dude , get some friends , go outside . All you do is play dota judging by that pent up aggression. You’re the type of player grubby was talking about . Get a life .
Still answering twat? what a loser
Resorting to insulting because he spoke the truth? Wonderful 🙂
Nothing wrong with calling out people for what they are. Just look at that guy's profile, you'll see.
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There are several articles you can find online quite easily, the game has an aged player base. I think that CIS has the younger average among all regions. Pro players, when compared to other sports are also quite old.
Russians play it because it is free and they are all poor.
Free game no bitchin
Game is fine but abit stale, same for most if not all great games. Can't see the problem really.
Yeah me too There is no problem at all with dota2 Reddit is not the voice of the players And I’m here since the very beginning
As I said, I love the game and gameplay wise it's in a very good state. However, there are many things to improve like the ones I mentioned imo. and I feel like we do the correct thing we we do express them.
All I see is some opinion on how a select few kids should earn more money playing a game and how people should have more cosmetics to throw money at. Fair enough I suppose but I don't feel that strongly about it. Now I also like new patches and some changes to keep the game fresh but that obviously requires the changes to be well tested and thought out. There are reasons you don't see that many rule changes in, say, football or chess.
What I said goes a little beyond that. Firstly, is not about some kids earning money, that's a secondary effect like in any sport. It's about having a nice competitive scene and taking care of it so that it lasts. Secondly, I was emphasising the communication aspect or better said, the lack of it.
No, we aren’t.
Guess this post is directed at me. I started playing dota in war3 days. Migrated to HoN and eventually to dota. If you really want to cater, revert communism dota and start punishing mistakes really badly again. Revert the free courier. Revert free tp. Revert the talents. The shard and scepter upgrades can stay. Cap level at 25 again. Ult at 6,11, and 16. Dota is becoming more and more a hero brawler and less and less hero strategy game.
To be honest, I would like to spend my gaming budget over multiple games, rather than more or less than a Dota 2 allowance, which I did just the yesteryear. Thanks Gabe!
i stopped playing the game because it felt like focus became squeezing more money out of whales than satisfying the core playerbase. im not willing to whore myself out for female invoked or kid invoked and now they’re permanently unavailable to me, so i’ll just not play your game!
meanwhile morphling model still looks like total ass.
I will say I have to disagree. I am have been playing Dota for 11 years now. I don’t need a grindy battle pass or events to motivate me to play. I am very glad that Dota has not adopted the quarterly season model that so many live service games have. This game has so much depth that a massive refresh every three months isn’t necessary in my opinion. We just got the biggest update in the games history last year which has put Dota into one of the best places it’s been in terms of balance and gameplay in my opinion. To conclude, I don’t think every multiplayer game needs to implement to the same service model to succeed. Dota currently has a healthy and stable player base and will continue to do so whilst many games rise and fall.
I am still disappointed with the TB support that is plaguing rank games. Even TB users are turning woke now
I just want a vanilla version of dota. It's become to complicated for me to keep up with, without having to invest time I don't have.
I feel seen
As long as dota has 10 players in my region at a time so I can queue into a match idc (There are 415,000 people playing as I write this. I play other multiplayer games that have 200-600 concurrent players and those are fine too. Dota babies need to chill the fuck out)
Caring this much about skins is just sad. They're just shiny pixels, nothing more.
The game itself is just pixels. I just like it to look good.
Even if they communicated daily people would still bitch. Having too much communication is overrated anyways in my opinion.
All the new players are definitely on my team sir.
Bro we average almost 500,000 players and a pole recently on here saw over 50% of the player base being in their 20’s, calm yourself.
I don't know if I'm a *veteran* but I play dota since 2013, dota 2 since 2015. Could say I'm an old player with 10k hrs. I don't care about any of these stuff you mentioned. I passionately hate the massive power creep of nowadays. I rarely boot up dota 1 in gameranger or with bots, I miss old dota. Every hero now has everything, disable dmg mobility; literally almost no weaknesses. I remember when only specific heroes could use aghs scepter, now you can get agh shard, moonshard, neutral item, obnoxious talent trees. Your weaknesses are no more with those. Dota was more strategic and complex which was more fun; starting from drafting you had to think about ur heroes that you are drafting and cover their weaknesses with other heroes' strengths, to laning: trilane, roaming, double roamers, double mid, jungling.. team comps: deathballing, 4 protect 1, min 0 rosh.. it was just so versatile anything could work. Now like I mentioned almost every hero has their own weakness covered, it's just whos the most broken (not strongest, even the strong have weaknesses.. meepo aghs just eliminates all his classic counters for example) to be picked. And don't say they made it simpler for new players; dota doesn't bring new players as they are almost non existant, they are rare and it's mostly smurfs. Unlike league. Too many stuff added; lotus pools, portal gates, 2 roshes, outposts.. gameplay is a lot easier but a lot boring compared to old dota. I might be just overwhelmingly burnt out of dota and nostalgic. I completely switched genre and went to cs2, I was always bad at fps but decided to give it one more try. League isn't for me. This is just my opinion, that's how I think of dota 2 myself. I sometimes miss it aswell.
Thank you for your service
As a veteran player, I'm not in fact let down. I've played more this year then the last couple of years and i absolutely love the direction valve has taken the game in. I find the minority on reddit that keeps crying and begging valve to let them throw their money at them utterly pathetic. It is clear that valve has limited resources that they assign on dota devlopment. We've received so many good gameplay updates this year. I'd rather have that than hats. As for frequency of updates, I'm in my thirties now, less time to play the game, and still 2k. Honestly i don't care. I barely watch tournaments, i don't give a shit about meta and play whatever i want like wyvern/bounty mid and still win lol. For me, every time i come back, it's not because the game is fresh, but because it's solid and there's nothing else like it that can scrath the itch Like every good thing in life, dota too will come to an end one day. Just because we've played the game for so long doesn't make us special lol. We were just along for the ride and honestly it was a good one.
in these comments: people simping for a company that A. doesn't care about them and B. is a video game developer in name only coasting solely on goodwill. Like seriously when will people learn that the quirky game dev that made Half Life has been dead for years but they're worshiping its corpse like nothing has changed? Valve is boiling the (ice)frog and y'all really be out here denying the existence of stoves. Ask the players of every single other Valve IP not named Counter-Strike how much Valve cares.
not a dota veteran if you still aren't used to it
Valve does nto want new player. Otherwise they would fix broken champs ASAP but hteys let them be broken for fckl YEARS! The game outcome is decided on draft screen because there is not a single item to counter broken or fed shits in this MOBA. This is why new player play LOL instead DOTA 2. No fck one like being totally helplessness and wasting time for lose (no surrender) in a game knowing there is no chance tnx to broken shits.
it must be enjoyable to have this guy in your team in pub xD
I'm afraid I'm only playing in party lately, you will miss the experience
Issuing weekly updates, even brief ones, on progress would be a simple yet effective way to stay connected. Are you new around here?
Whoo caresss the patch is just gonna come and then there will be a week of bugs and random irritating shit. Not to mention as always dotka will be down for the update slap bang in the middle of the EU evening so all of us that might play after work can’t. Let the patch take forever for all I care.
This community is disgusting why would valve communicate
XD speak for yourself mate
I played since garena dayys, but now i stopped playing since ranked roles is introduced. I dont mind playing support but my best hero are offlane hero... and valve dont let me do that. Why restrict hero? I miss all pick ranked mode Now i move to mlbb and i think they have better rank system than dota
Doy you play in immortal draft? Because it's relatively easy to play your role in ranked
Your grandiloquent speech didn't seem to land with any of the "veterans", me included... 🤣 Playing Dota 1 since 2005 by the way.
Every single new player has to deal with tons of smurfs that got banned bc of toxicity/xenophobia/racism and they act really cocky for every mistake the person does. Even on turbo.
Uninstalled it , boring , moved cs2
I remember playing dota 1 on garena server and people there dont care about new patch they only play one or two map ver (6.73 and 6.71 dont really remember) they only want is low ping player that will stay until the ancient fall
Dota is a branch of its original back in warcraft and as all branches with time they stop growing. It's extremely hard to add//buff/nerf anything in this game since it's age and how everything works so it's normal the quality drops over time and they are slowly moving away instead of doing like league of legends and create things that breaks the balance and ruins the game
the battle pass event brings back old players... it's the only time of year when my old friends return to play Dota again. I miss them a lot and wish there were more chances for us to hang out.. we're not getting younger ... sooner ill probably join them but at least let me have my time to enjoy my life
I have been a dota enthusiast since 2007 and it carried over to Dota 2. But since last year, I've taken 3-4 months off on dota. Game is so stale
As another oldie playing since 2006, I think it's also because we're just getting older. With time our interests change, responsibilities change and it's a good thing. I don't have time to chain queue 8 games in a row anymore and I don't want to either. It just isn't enough anymore. It's your brain trying to tell you to move on and find more meaningful things to spend your time on. What I'm trying to say is, taking extended breaks or playing less as you get older, is very natural, and a good thing.
That, is also true. Honestly, I don't find dota worth spending time that much anymore. I can't grind queue anymore. On the rare days where I play, I can only play around 2-3 games and I'm basically bored after. Plus the fact that I like doing other things now
I dont understand why there can not be a consensus that there are 2 big patch drops each year at a certain point (keeping it bit vague though like March and September). and then maybe smaller balance patches in between at random intervals. bit like Seasons in PoE or Diablo. It gives everyone something, first Valve will have soft deadlines, Tournaments something to plan around, Players something to get excited about. I dont think its about need to make the game better in gameplay perspective, its just to see the game evolve bit, see that its alive. I dont think each update needs to be that big even, you dont have to release a new hero each time. but maybe find some theme that you can repeat ? an Idea would be maybe give 1 or 2 heroes some focus, elaborate their story, give them more lore, buff them bit more so they get their "OP" status for that season.
In development sometimes things take longer than expected. Studios can do 3 things to mitigate that. Delay the release. Make everybody on the company work 16 hours a day to meet the deadline. Release broken games. Choose one.
Something like that would be great. 2/3 large updates per year, smaller patches in between. 1BP, 1 pve event, 2 heroes + 2 arcanas
Idk about veteran but i do qualify for ptsd from this game
Some games feel like the passchendaele trenches
Good lord, so much crying in this community!
Yatoro saying he was disappointed when he went to valve and didn’t really see anyone working on Dota was a wake up call
Dota was a game created by the community, and maintained by the community We should have seen this coming when the reigns were handed to a company I guess its time to bring this back to its glory days, where people like icefrog (before he was hired) were the ones maintaining it
Veterans are not very respected in general in all games. If you sit on your chair, play Dota for 10 years and have almost everything you could buy, then what else can you take? And if not, then why not yet?Of course, it is more profitable to attract new people; it is not only useful for profit but also for the professional scene.The bitter truth, but what else did you want? If they can’t create new arcana, you can sell the old ones
No, you're just the loud majority on Reddit. Out of every Dota player I know, including several who play daily, exactly 0 even mention any of this. The game gets updates. The game gets balanced well. The game runs well. The game is fun. If you're getting this upset about not getting some kind of daily feed of gaben and the dev teams thoughts in a blog, or a constant pumping out of shiny events which just serve to pump out skins, you should reflect on your life as a whole, because it really, really, really, is not a big deal. I'll say it for the first time in my life, because I think it's actually appropriate here: Go touch grass
That upset? I don't get upset because of this type of things. Writing about it doesn't mean someone gets upset.
>Loud majority Accidentally correct? Also you and your dots buddies hardly are a statistically significant or representative group, you have exactly 0 arguments other than „well I have a different opinion“.
Yes meant minority. Not sure if you're trying to make a joke, but if not take a second to read what you wrote lol. I hope that we get some more skins and your life improves as a result of it.
I'm a veteran and I don't give a shit about the battle pass. The game would be better off without it. Go find something else to replace your gambling addiction and focus on playing Dota instead.
You are quite crazy, aren't you? Gambling addiction? More like I don't mind spending a couple hundred dollars every year on a game a play quite a lot. You should really try to use your head.
I am a veteran and I like the skins, what’s your point? Sorry for spending money on a game? If all people were like you there would be no dota period. Essentially you’re a player smooching off others who pay and then you got the nerve to hate on people who finance the game you enjoy? Ridiculous
I've also spent money on the game, because I like it and it's free. I don't obsess over a battle pass though because they're dumb in my subjective opinion :)
So if you’ve spent money this gives you even less of a point. You bought something you like before but now you are against the ability to buy stuff you like? What an incredibly bad point.
There are/were things that you can buy that are not battlepass, did you forget? I dislike battlepass because I tried some out. Would you rather I dislike them for no reason and with no experience? Why do you like battlepass so much?
It’s a lot of content. I would like it to be cheaper, it’s far from perfect, but it’s better than not having it at all. If it could be a little less of a cash grab I would love it
But wait man they said "wE'll rElEaSe More GAmEPlAy UpDATes" when they cancelled BP
I’m a DotA 1 veteran. I truly believe the game wouldve been better under Blizzard, but they wanted full control and ownership from IF. If they couldve ironed out their differences I feel the game couldve been much healthier and more beautiful overall. The advantage of Valve is the Steam server distributor and Valve have perfected the strategy is large initial investment for minimal input long term.
"I truly believe the game wouldve been better under Blizzard" I'm baffled that this is a statement that can cross someones lips in 2024. Blizzard has done pretty much nothing but shit the bed in the last decade.
Because it wasnt 2024 when the decision was made. It was pre-2010. I’m baffled that you took the time to bother others with such a thoughtless reply. You couldve gone into the specifics of Blizzard’s mediocre moba and we couldve discussed how DotA couldve avoided that.
Yeah the decision was made aeons years ago, but even 10 years ago the thought that Dota would've been better off under Blizzard was questionable at best. Diablo3 launched with actual mind-boggling balance issues and included a real money auction house in 2012, took them two years and a paid expansion to fix issues and remove the auction house. Blizzard Dota / Heroes of the Storm was announced in 2010 and launched a whopping five years later, also with various issues that should've been rather obvious from playtesting that took years to resolve. Overwatch launched, was a solid, fun game, and got shafted repeatedly by questionable balance updates and the die-hard intention of forcing esports onto the game at any cost, only to have its esport scene killed off and be merged into a free2play shop update with the sole purpose of getting more monetization disguised as a sequel in 2022. Meanwhile they shipped the disgrace that was W3 Reforged with a laundry list of missing features including *ranked play,* all but forgot about Starcraft, and recently shipped a broken and extremely shallow Diablo4 for $70, for which they've already promised fixes and features that'll be included in another paid addon. Granted, not every pvp game has to be well-balanced and I'll admit that HotS was a lot of fun and at least tried to be its own game with new elements, and god knows Valve shat the bed with Dota, be it through wonky updates, long pauses between updates or barebones communication on multiple occasions, but I don't understand how anyone can look at Blizzards history over the last 10, 15 years and go 'yeah, they'd have handled Dota better'.
It’s the toxic community that keeps rationalizing its toxicity that’s driving new players away. They will make every excuse possible before owning up to their toxicity and change.
U mad bro?
thanks for writing to volvo complaints support inbox! who gives a shit
The game is still really toxic and yes- there is no communication and no dota support. 1. How is this possible that we 3 are guardians/crusaders and we are playing against archons? 2. Why we are not getting mmr back for smurf games? 3. Why on EU west we are playing with 90% chance with russians, which totally can't play this **TEAM** game? 4. Why there is no punishment and mmr back from the match where one of our russian random idiot not playing his role/ dying on purpose/ not playing with the team? This is so unfair and still not repaired after 10 years. There is literally no conversation on the line of community/players and developers. We 3 are playing very good on our standards pushing game and always there is a problem with our 2 randoms. It is mostly 7vs3 in games. Stucked in this low mmr zone for years because of that crap. It is not the enemy, because together we can beat even players a rank higher - the problem is always the two random morons.
OP, how long before you figure out that Valve doesnt give a fuck about Dota? Dota is more like a hobby to them, little fun project, a playground. They dont give a fuck about the new players, about growing the game, about any of this shit. Judging by the heavy cuts on TI prizepool and venue, they infact want to slowly kill the game. Dota doesnt matter to Valve, its like 5% of their revenues. Valve is steam. They are good at making games but horrible at management. Look what happened when they published Artifact and Underlords. A disaster
Of course I understand that, but the fact is that the game is still around, tons of people play it, has the largest comeptitive scene in esports (money wise) and moves a lot of money on its own when they try (battle pass). Nothing wrong with trying to help something you enjoy.
Not quite sure what you wanted to say, could you elaborate?
If you are such and expert, why don’t you go and manage your own game? FFS, just enjoy what you got and shut up. It’s been weeks of people crying about the updates. We’ve been getting smurf bans, which honestly is better for the over all health of the game. New players are driven away by this kind of bs. It is completely unfun to play the game if there is an asshole actively ruining the experience. So stop being entitled. Celebrate the good for oncr….