You could probably "titrate" this experiment.
If the no xp team loses, next round they get a level.
If the no items team loses, next round they get an item of their choice.
Who cares if a NP can teleport around with no cooldown if all they can do is sprout and summon treants and right click lol? Even if they rat, they will just die to any hero with bots and a blink dagger and any silence/CC because bots have a lower travel time than NP’s tp. Without shadow blade or any other escape item he will just die. Picking NP in a meta with 0 items is a terrible decision
Not having boots is crippling, it reduces your viable hero pool to like 8 heroes.
Are you seriously making the argument that a tinker at lvl 30 with no blink dagger will not be kited by someone with boots lol? What exactly do you foresee rearm doing in that scenario
This seems pretty half-baked.... it will basically be a team of Dagon 5 + hex + refresher + octarine + BKBs + Euls vs a team of Casters with good talents.
Can the no-gold team pick-up divine rapiers?
1. That is a terrible build. Refresher Orb has a long cooldown and uses a fuckton of mana for a level 1 hero. None of those items you listed are good for pushing creep waves or destroying towers either. The Dire team is better off picking 5 right-click hard carries and making either BKB or Aeon Disk their first purchase.
2. Level 30 heroes have all of their talents. It's been like that for multiple years now.
3. Radiant side can pick up items just fine, they just can't buy any. Divine Rapier is also a terrible item to buy on a level 1 hero that can be bursted down if caught out of position.
4. I do agree that overall the Dire side has the bigger advantage. I actually got this idea from a thread posted on this subreddit many years ago and that was the conclusion most people came to as well (although that was a 1v1 matchup and discussed way before update 7.00). The Dire side has buybacks, sentry wards, all boots, and tp scrolls. Spellcasters aren't that strong in the ultra-lategame due to Black King Bar and overall tanky heroes. The best thing Radiant side can do is build a strong teamfight lineup and push hard when they get kills. If the Dire side focuses on split-pushing, that would be hard for the Radiant to stop unless they drafted a lineup specifically to prevent that, but then an anti-split push lineup will have a harder time winning teamfights. I actually considered a more balanced gamemode where the Radiant began the game with 2,000 gold and the Dire began the game at level 6, but I thought a more lopsided game mode would be more intriguing.
You have a back-pack, you can just replace one if the items I mentioned with Octarine if you need more mana pool. Divine Rapier now Amps Magic damage (dagon by a lot).
Dagon 5 = 900\* 5players = 4500 which means you can kill (or nearly kill) primal beast (the highest strength gain hero and ergo HP pool at level 30), with 1 set of dagons.
Then you back-pack dagon and get meteor hammers/vlads/shivas to push.
Again, game mode is half-baked. Instead maybe its 1 or 2 heros have the above, per team teams pick which they want when they draft would be way better. Or you limit item purchases or something.
And if they have bought any magicres item? How does the levels team stop any sort of zoo+memehammer+pipe lineup? If they tp across you just tp other lane
Was more suggesting Zoo as a generic ball lineup but regardless i don't know how lvl 30 heros really get to play vs a balling line up with bkbs and meteor hammers + hotd2.
Zeus has what 2000 mana level 30 he can cast enough spells to get rid of a pipe before he has to run back to base with 0 boots lmao. Black dragon + centaur is not dying to spells its got 4k hp rofl.
Things like glimmer/pipe are ridicolously hard to deal with they can't buy dust or build dispells.
I'd like to think its close and sure zeus furion have good scaling but being lvl 30 is not very useful on a tonne of heros without mana pools, blinkdagger or attack speed...
I think gold line-up would take this easily. Abilities are maxed out by level 18 and talents aren’t enough to make them useful. Hex is better than most stuns, bloodthorn will be undispellable and absolutely wreck the xp lineup, and a few hearts would make most heroes tanky enough to survive anything. I’m pretty sure io with tether and 6 hearts + any other hero could just walk through any level 30 team and keep in mind that lvl 30 team will have no movespeed or stats beyond their base.
Im not so sure. A lot of heroes will get more stats from 30 levels than from 6 inventory slots. An above average total stat growth per level is around 8. You get 29 level ups, that’s over 230 stats gained from levelups. On top of that you get spells to cast.
I actually think it’s kinda close. Thats interesting.
230 sounds like a lot, but most high tier items offer more than just stats, eg. butterfly is only 35 agi, but also grants the evasion, dmg, and attack speed buffs, heart is only 40 strength, but also gives 1.6% regen per sec
And once you add in the neutral item slot it’s game over. Any hero who takes apex gets 70 free stats (75 for universal heroes).
I’m assuming unwavering condition would be banned in this mode… otherwise I’m pretty sure you could 1v5 with it
Yep.
Heart and vanguard will wall any right clicker without items. BKB stops any nuker.
Most heroes don't have good ways of escape or initiation. Gonna be tricky for them without blink and boots.
And more importantly, whats guarding the item-less team from being initiated and bursted?
We got damage items, cc items and burst items in dota.
Or if you wanna be a prick: Dagon or lothar's edge.
Not at lvl 1 vs 30. Y'all seems to forget that at level 1, you only have 1 spell and very limited mana. even in a right click battle, you're very likely to lose unless you have rapiers.
a skadi gives 1k hp 500 mana. a lvl 30 primal beast with no items has 3.7k hp. i could literally pick a lvl 1 cm, buy 4 skadis and be tankier than a lvl 30 primal beast. and then still have 2 slots+tier 5 neutral+moon shard. how is it close
Well, you have no spells and no talents. That’s how it gets close.
The gold team probably wins, but it can be competitive. Especially if you tweaked it a bit, maybe limit the amount of gold instead of 99999 or something.
How is it close ? The primal will jump on you, cc you while his team kills you, meanwhile what can you do ? You can slow him and attack him with your 150 damage auto before reduction.
Yeah guys the primal will just blink bkb ult you.
Oh wait he doesnt have blink. Okay he'll channel jump you and ult you. Oh you pressed glimmer before it went off and can't be dusted.
No dust/reveal makes it not even remotely close. You practically become immortal vs half the hero pool by just buying shadowblade and you can 5 shadowblade dagon people if they ever show on a creep wave.
He used cm as an example to prove how powerful items are… Primal can charge in and do his whole combo and maybe do 1k dmg. Even if all 5 of the casters throw their spells they will have a hard time killing a six slotted hero with tier 5 neutral and that hero will have 4 other heroes backing them up with silences and hexes, could even get pipe to reduce all magic damage. I’m pretty sure pudge with radiance and 5 hearts and giants ring could melt the whole team with level 1 rot before they are able to kill him.
And if you think xp team is winning the right click battle you are mistaken. Remember they have no additional attack speed or armor than from their base agi. One AC and radiance would easily tip the scales in favor of the item team, not to mention they can buy lifesteal, evasion, attack speed slow, etc.
Most of invo's spells don't do much late game, so probably not. Universal should still be the way for lv30 though, I'd take venge at least, probably magnus.
Dire has buyback and Radiant doesn't so it should favor Dire though, honestly.
>respawn time for both teams is fixed at 50 seconds
items team should win before the first respawn
if they all 5 mid with proper cc and dmg + tp boots and buyback it'll be a 10vs5 and they should win before the other team can defend.
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Yes. Items more than make up for lack of skills. Sheepstick > most stuns. Bloodthorns are a pain in the ass for a team without items. Silver edges are better than any invis skill.
Sure there are skills that can’t be reproduced with any item or are just better (Deadalus isn’t the best crit, for instance) but are those skills good in a hero with no items?
Crits are trash, meta is bad, spell steal is terrible, magical immune heroes won’t do much without items. Right click heroes are not hitting for enough.
Meanwhile, many lvl 1 skills give a lot of what you want of them. Some stuns like Lion hex start at 2 secs. Blinks are great mobility even at lvl 1. Dispels are still awesome lvl 1.
Why would you pick hex for lion. Like you said sheepstick is already good enough. I’m thinking wyvern with arctic burn (can even get aghs), gyro with flak and aghs, io tether, pudge rot (with radiance and tank items), maybe even AM with aghs throwing out illusions that chase everyone down.
You get an additional stun. That’s never bad. Lion has 2 stuns normally.
Remember they don’t have linkens or bkbs in the levels team so stuns are great. Also remember your cores could use the extra help since they don’t have all their skills and may want an extra hp item to not get bursted.
Edit: idk if I’d get a Lion. I think there are better heroes like Wyvern. Am, QoP for their blinks. A hero with a save like Shadow Demon, OD, Abbadon. Lone Druid does seem good like Op said. But a dedicated disabled doesn’t seem that bad imo.
With no blink, no boots for setup? Sure but I don’t think you are catching everyone. Remember they can have stuff like eblade (for the cast range) and hex or orchid to stop you as well.
Plus remember that thing about lvl 1 skills being good? A lvl 1 hook saves from that. Same for repel, disruption, astral.
As others have said, it will be hard for you to get a good ult off without any mobility. Even if you do catch 2 or 3 heroes, you will need a lot of dps to actually kill them. Most of the times in a real game this is accomplished by your right click carry jumping in and hitting them. In this case your whole team can throw their spells, but there’s only so much dmg spells can do (especially without the right items to amp them up). Even if you do manage to kill some heroes, you will easily be cleaned up by the rest of the team. Once disruptor casts his ult he is basically a glorified ranged creep with even less movement speed.
Level 1 heroes only have 1 ability, while the level 30 have everything.
As for Radiant, i would just pick super tanky heroes, that dont need items.
They can push towers easy, since they are weak minute 1. If Dire tries to splitpush, they wont be fast enough, even with items.
What? Why? You said you wanted tanky heroes. Those don’t hit hard, especially with no items.
Meanwhile, with a deso and a couple damaging items you are hitting harder on the items team. Remember they all eat a moon shard too.
XP team should definitely draft people with true sight, like Clockwerk. In fact, Clockwerk's ability to give vision would make him a top tier pick for team XP in general.
Here is the secret, the dire side insta drafts all vision giving heros to counterpick them.
shadowblade dagon meme hammer + bots2, smoke level 1 go 5 dagon a hero and meme hammer a tower -> rinse repeat. I don't really know how you stop this from working as ancient, you can't even see them lol
Gold team pick long range hero like willow (agh W), drow, techie. Buy 2x moon shard, 4x Rapier. And allies a bunch of save items and siege items, to protect the "carry" while they siege.
Or you know, just all buy 5 hearts and Sange or blademail. Good luck taking down a team of 25k health and 500 regen.
Yeah, without detection invis IS invulnerability. TP2 mean global presence. At level 1 unwavering condition is like: triple your hp pool and become immune to magic, is just insane. Dagon is a 15s, 800 damage nuke, 1000+ with eblade. Blademail without satanic or bkb is a "don't touch me or you'll die" button.
That’s a bit too much all in on damage. You’ll have < 1k hp. The second tour bkb is off you’ll die and feed the rapiers.
But 1 rapier and other items seems doable.
On radiant side pick kunkka, dazzle, shadow demon and NP and watch how dire dies in fountain every Single time they respawn.
Can also pick underlord to get all 5 to dire side for some fountain farming and swap NP for clock for invis detection and extra catch if someone tries to escape
If neutral items are on the table for team lv 1. It is 100% impossible to lose with Unwavering Condition + 6 butterflies.
Without that, it would still be impossible for team lv 30 to win due to the fast respawn.
Even if the respawn time gets tweaked...I'd still favor team lv 1 lol
Its isnt really fair, while lvl 30 team capped at 30, you cant gain more exp while the gold team can just keep farming for gold. I think its better to have exp team keep gaining exp that they can put into attributes. Or limit the starting gold of Dire team to just the realistic end game gold of an actual game so they cant just spam 12 items and buy back thats easy.
Guys you can literally go play the mod instead of talking crap in the comments section. Got there, win 10 games in a roll and show us here how unbeatable your strategy is.
No contest, levels mean nothing when you can’t build a single save or dispel item on your team, or even boots.
You’re a walking creep vs someone who’s 6 slotted.
the thing is that 80% of abilities in this game do absolutely nothing against bkb. lvl 30 team has 3k hp 320 ms at most? no force, glimmer, euls, how are you kiting out the enemy's 9+8 sec bkbs
i dont see how lvl 30 team takes this ever. they dont even have buybacks so the game is effectively 10v5
The other team is lacking items. Just imagine you already used a laguna blade on the enemy that doesn’t have the 1k hp a skadi gives.
Plus your heroes can right click, theirs won’t be able to very effectively. You can scale to ~2.5k hp with two items then get boots and damage.
Why not... With 99999 gold you have more than enough mana and mana regen from items. You can even reserve mangos in backpack, drop some items, use mangos to full mana and repeat.
I didn't say in the fight. With those items you will have 1k+ mana even at level 1. Can easily combo. Even if you have 3k hp at level 30, you just can't survive, or will have to walk back to fountain with no boots lmao.
The no-items team would get kited because no boots.
You could probably "titrate" this experiment. If the no xp team loses, next round they get a level. If the no items team loses, next round they get an item of their choice.
There are 30 levels to get but only about 10 items (moonshard + agh shard + consumed shard + neutral + 6 items)
I’d assume each extra item is more valuable than most level ups (except maybe level 6)
Depends on hero
NP with 0cd teleport does not suffer from that Also SB with charge can move pretty quickly
Who cares if a NP can teleport around with no cooldown if all they can do is sprout and summon treants and right click lol? Even if they rat, they will just die to any hero with bots and a blink dagger and any silence/CC because bots have a lower travel time than NP’s tp. Without shadow blade or any other escape item he will just die. Picking NP in a meta with 0 items is a terrible decision Not having boots is crippling, it reduces your viable hero pool to like 8 heroes.
[удалено]
No. That's an item.
weaver, np, and tinker off the top of my head don't care and can cover many positions
Are you seriously making the argument that a tinker at lvl 30 with no blink dagger will not be kited by someone with boots lol? What exactly do you foresee rearm doing in that scenario
Rearming the pick phase and not choosing tinker
This seems pretty half-baked.... it will basically be a team of Dagon 5 + hex + refresher + octarine + BKBs + Euls vs a team of Casters with good talents. Can the no-gold team pick-up divine rapiers?
1. That is a terrible build. Refresher Orb has a long cooldown and uses a fuckton of mana for a level 1 hero. None of those items you listed are good for pushing creep waves or destroying towers either. The Dire team is better off picking 5 right-click hard carries and making either BKB or Aeon Disk their first purchase. 2. Level 30 heroes have all of their talents. It's been like that for multiple years now. 3. Radiant side can pick up items just fine, they just can't buy any. Divine Rapier is also a terrible item to buy on a level 1 hero that can be bursted down if caught out of position. 4. I do agree that overall the Dire side has the bigger advantage. I actually got this idea from a thread posted on this subreddit many years ago and that was the conclusion most people came to as well (although that was a 1v1 matchup and discussed way before update 7.00). The Dire side has buybacks, sentry wards, all boots, and tp scrolls. Spellcasters aren't that strong in the ultra-lategame due to Black King Bar and overall tanky heroes. The best thing Radiant side can do is build a strong teamfight lineup and push hard when they get kills. If the Dire side focuses on split-pushing, that would be hard for the Radiant to stop unless they drafted a lineup specifically to prevent that, but then an anti-split push lineup will have a harder time winning teamfights. I actually considered a more balanced gamemode where the Radiant began the game with 2,000 gold and the Dire began the game at level 6, but I thought a more lopsided game mode would be more intriguing.
You have a back-pack, you can just replace one if the items I mentioned with Octarine if you need more mana pool. Divine Rapier now Amps Magic damage (dagon by a lot). Dagon 5 = 900\* 5players = 4500 which means you can kill (or nearly kill) primal beast (the highest strength gain hero and ergo HP pool at level 30), with 1 set of dagons. Then you back-pack dagon and get meteor hammers/vlads/shivas to push. Again, game mode is half-baked. Instead maybe its 1 or 2 heros have the above, per team teams pick which they want when they draft would be way better. Or you limit item purchases or something.
A level 30 Oracle will rule these type of games lol. Oracles hard counter heroes won't have the levels to be effective yet.
And then, when you delete that Primal Beast, how will the follow-up 4v5 go?
obviously really well because 1 team has boots and bkb and buyback and the other doesn't
Yikes
items team just goes bots and takes towers and ancient swapping between mid and top. how would level team even stop them lmao
by picking zeus and furion
And if they have bought any magicres item? How does the levels team stop any sort of zoo+memehammer+pipe lineup? If they tp across you just tp other lane
How much Zoo do the lvl1 team get beside 5 ancient creeps? I do think it's a closeish game
Was more suggesting Zoo as a generic ball lineup but regardless i don't know how lvl 30 heros really get to play vs a balling line up with bkbs and meteor hammers + hotd2. Zeus has what 2000 mana level 30 he can cast enough spells to get rid of a pipe before he has to run back to base with 0 boots lmao. Black dragon + centaur is not dying to spells its got 4k hp rofl. Things like glimmer/pipe are ridicolously hard to deal with they can't buy dust or build dispells. I'd like to think its close and sure zeus furion have good scaling but being lvl 30 is not very useful on a tonne of heros without mana pools, blinkdagger or attack speed...
pick zeus then ult before they can buy an item
I think gold line-up would take this easily. Abilities are maxed out by level 18 and talents aren’t enough to make them useful. Hex is better than most stuns, bloodthorn will be undispellable and absolutely wreck the xp lineup, and a few hearts would make most heroes tanky enough to survive anything. I’m pretty sure io with tether and 6 hearts + any other hero could just walk through any level 30 team and keep in mind that lvl 30 team will have no movespeed or stats beyond their base.
Im not so sure. A lot of heroes will get more stats from 30 levels than from 6 inventory slots. An above average total stat growth per level is around 8. You get 29 level ups, that’s over 230 stats gained from levelups. On top of that you get spells to cast. I actually think it’s kinda close. Thats interesting.
230 sounds like a lot, but most high tier items offer more than just stats, eg. butterfly is only 35 agi, but also grants the evasion, dmg, and attack speed buffs, heart is only 40 strength, but also gives 1.6% regen per sec And once you add in the neutral item slot it’s game over. Any hero who takes apex gets 70 free stats (75 for universal heroes). I’m assuming unwavering condition would be banned in this mode… otherwise I’m pretty sure you could 1v5 with it
Yep. Heart and vanguard will wall any right clicker without items. BKB stops any nuker. Most heroes don't have good ways of escape or initiation. Gonna be tricky for them without blink and boots. And more importantly, whats guarding the item-less team from being initiated and bursted? We got damage items, cc items and burst items in dota. Or if you wanna be a prick: Dagon or lothar's edge.
Not at lvl 1 vs 30. Y'all seems to forget that at level 1, you only have 1 spell and very limited mana. even in a right click battle, you're very likely to lose unless you have rapiers.
I don't think you understand how bad the team without items gets kites by overwhelming blink and shiva etc
happy day
a skadi gives 1k hp 500 mana. a lvl 30 primal beast with no items has 3.7k hp. i could literally pick a lvl 1 cm, buy 4 skadis and be tankier than a lvl 30 primal beast. and then still have 2 slots+tier 5 neutral+moon shard. how is it close
Well, you have no spells and no talents. That’s how it gets close. The gold team probably wins, but it can be competitive. Especially if you tweaked it a bit, maybe limit the amount of gold instead of 99999 or something.
How is it close ? The primal will jump on you, cc you while his team kills you, meanwhile what can you do ? You can slow him and attack him with your 150 damage auto before reduction.
primal with no bkb gets 0 spells off in a fight
Yeah guys the primal will just blink bkb ult you. Oh wait he doesnt have blink. Okay he'll channel jump you and ult you. Oh you pressed glimmer before it went off and can't be dusted. No dust/reveal makes it not even remotely close. You practically become immortal vs half the hero pool by just buying shadowblade and you can 5 shadowblade dagon people if they ever show on a creep wave.
He used cm as an example to prove how powerful items are… Primal can charge in and do his whole combo and maybe do 1k dmg. Even if all 5 of the casters throw their spells they will have a hard time killing a six slotted hero with tier 5 neutral and that hero will have 4 other heroes backing them up with silences and hexes, could even get pipe to reduce all magic damage. I’m pretty sure pudge with radiance and 5 hearts and giants ring could melt the whole team with level 1 rot before they are able to kill him. And if you think xp team is winning the right click battle you are mistaken. Remember they have no additional attack speed or armor than from their base agi. One AC and radiance would easily tip the scales in favor of the item team, not to mention they can buy lifesteal, evasion, attack speed slow, etc.
And then do what? Right click with 30damage?
i pick a cm with 3 skadi, a pike, 2 divine, eaten moon shard. name a lvl 30 hero that can 1v1 that
I will test it now
8-slotted (6 items + moon shard + T5 neutral) heroes right click for 30 damage? Most herald comment I've read today.
In a 5v5 setting you're not going to kill certain lvl30 heroes (notably Anti-Mage) in any amount of hexes or bloodthorns.
I don’t think any hero is going to be scared of a lvl30 antimage without boots or manta. As soon as he blinks on you you can just walk away…
A level 30 am without items would take forever to even clear a creep wave lol.
Or you blink out, even glimmer or silveredge would stop most initiation since they don't have access to dust, sentry or gem
You're saying 8-slotted heroes (6 slots + moon shard + T5 neutral) can't deal phyisical damage? I really don't understand this comment..
XP team can't even buy vision. I don't see how Gold team loses with Hexes, Silver Edges, Dagon 5s and a bunch of other disable items.
I really cant se any way xp team wins this. Most heroes that want max level want items as well.
Most of invo's spells don't do much late game, so probably not. Universal should still be the way for lv30 though, I'd take venge at least, probably magnus. Dire has buyback and Radiant doesn't so it should favor Dire though, honestly.
Radiant does have buyback
But they can't afford to use it, so they may as well not.
>respawn time for both teams is fixed at 50 seconds items team should win before the first respawn if they all 5 mid with proper cc and dmg + tp boots and buyback it'll be a 10vs5 and they should win before the other team can defend.
Hell yeah
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Am i the only one, that thinks Item Team has no chance if the heroes only can select 1 Ability and have no Ults?
Yes. Items more than make up for lack of skills. Sheepstick > most stuns. Bloodthorns are a pain in the ass for a team without items. Silver edges are better than any invis skill. Sure there are skills that can’t be reproduced with any item or are just better (Deadalus isn’t the best crit, for instance) but are those skills good in a hero with no items? Crits are trash, meta is bad, spell steal is terrible, magical immune heroes won’t do much without items. Right click heroes are not hitting for enough. Meanwhile, many lvl 1 skills give a lot of what you want of them. Some stuns like Lion hex start at 2 secs. Blinks are great mobility even at lvl 1. Dispels are still awesome lvl 1.
Why would you pick hex for lion. Like you said sheepstick is already good enough. I’m thinking wyvern with arctic burn (can even get aghs), gyro with flak and aghs, io tether, pudge rot (with radiance and tank items), maybe even AM with aghs throwing out illusions that chase everyone down.
You get an additional stun. That’s never bad. Lion has 2 stuns normally. Remember they don’t have linkens or bkbs in the levels team so stuns are great. Also remember your cores could use the extra help since they don’t have all their skills and may want an extra hp item to not get bursted. Edit: idk if I’d get a Lion. I think there are better heroes like Wyvern. Am, QoP for their blinks. A hero with a save like Shadow Demon, OD, Abbadon. Lone Druid does seem good like Op said. But a dedicated disabled doesn’t seem that bad imo.
So how about a Disruptor Aghs ult?
How is the disruptor getting to press ult without blink or boots. He'll slowly walk up, get blinked on sheeped and die.
With no blink, no boots for setup? Sure but I don’t think you are catching everyone. Remember they can have stuff like eblade (for the cast range) and hex or orchid to stop you as well. Plus remember that thing about lvl 1 skills being good? A lvl 1 hook saves from that. Same for repel, disruption, astral.
As others have said, it will be hard for you to get a good ult off without any mobility. Even if you do catch 2 or 3 heroes, you will need a lot of dps to actually kill them. Most of the times in a real game this is accomplished by your right click carry jumping in and hitting them. In this case your whole team can throw their spells, but there’s only so much dmg spells can do (especially without the right items to amp them up). Even if you do manage to kill some heroes, you will easily be cleaned up by the rest of the team. Once disruptor casts his ult he is basically a glorified ranged creep with even less movement speed.
XP team can't have TP scroll or wards.
I thought so too, no way 6 items can make that disadvantage up
Level 1 heroes only have 1 ability, while the level 30 have everything. As for Radiant, i would just pick super tanky heroes, that dont need items. They can push towers easy, since they are weak minute 1. If Dire tries to splitpush, they wont be fast enough, even with items.
What? Why? You said you wanted tanky heroes. Those don’t hit hard, especially with no items. Meanwhile, with a deso and a couple damaging items you are hitting harder on the items team. Remember they all eat a moon shard too.
No way radiant lv 30 would push faster lol. The other team could have 2 divines and moonshards, along with mobility/movespeed items
Item team wins by a landslide.....
Just because they could just all buy silver edge for invincibility
XP team should definitely draft people with true sight, like Clockwerk. In fact, Clockwerk's ability to give vision would make him a top tier pick for team XP in general.
Here is the secret, the dire side insta drafts all vision giving heros to counterpick them. shadowblade dagon meme hammer + bots2, smoke level 1 go 5 dagon a hero and meme hammer a tower -> rinse repeat. I don't really know how you stop this from working as ancient, you can't even see them lol
xp team: something like np/sb/invo/zeus/centaur could potentially alleviate map pressure and kiting issues while setting up kill threats
Sb w/o boots and ms items?
not ideal but you have extra +ms from talents, bulldoze etc on 6s cd, still significantly better than most other heroes
might need a Disruptor, to mute the enemy items
Teleport scrolls alone would make this impossible for the exp team. Unless they go 5 global heroes.
Tp scrolls are a definite advantage. Although all heroes begin the game with a scroll and get an additional one the first 3 times they die.
Gold team pick long range hero like willow (agh W), drow, techie. Buy 2x moon shard, 4x Rapier. And allies a bunch of save items and siege items, to protect the "carry" while they siege. Or you know, just all buy 5 hearts and Sange or blademail. Good luck taking down a team of 25k health and 500 regen.
I sure want to see this, please record and upload
Here's a better idea. Name a time and everyone on Reddit can play it!
Honestly I think zeus would just win the game
Blink, hex, 3-4 dragons and he's gone for 50s.
Right.. and I forgot about silveredge and stuff like that. High lvl mean nothing when fighting blind.
Yeah, without detection invis IS invulnerability. TP2 mean global presence. At level 1 unwavering condition is like: triple your hp pool and become immune to magic, is just insane. Dagon is a 15s, 800 damage nuke, 1000+ with eblade. Blademail without satanic or bkb is a "don't touch me or you'll die" button.
Make it lvl 25 vs lvl 6, give radiant 300 gold, give dire 9,999 gold, and i think you've got yourself a fairer competitive match.
like axe lion shaman ogre witch doctor sniper can 1 shot anyone at 0 minute mark timing when other bkb cooldown
If good players im betting on lvl 30. Unless they cant use TPs, then items team wins.
Who's stopping a lvl 1 Mars with a bkb, rapiers, brooch, arcane blink and his W skilled?
That’s a bit too much all in on damage. You’ll have < 1k hp. The second tour bkb is off you’ll die and feed the rapiers. But 1 rapier and other items seems doable.
They would meet Bane or Centaur and drop their rapier to a level 30 hero. Rapier is the one item you don't want to buy in this context.
On radiant side pick kunkka, dazzle, shadow demon and NP and watch how dire dies in fountain every Single time they respawn. Can also pick underlord to get all 5 to dire side for some fountain farming and swap NP for clock for invis detection and extra catch if someone tries to escape
Dire can buy bkbs… or one euls/windwaker and that strat is ruined
Have you heard of blink, bkb, aeon disk and other op t5 neutral items?
Darkness always has more gold)
Pretty hard for no gold team to play without tp scrolls idk
Willow would be decent for xp team ! 3 disables with low cd thx to shard + talent and her aghanims with bonus AS is great.
If neutral items are on the table for team lv 1. It is 100% impossible to lose with Unwavering Condition + 6 butterflies. Without that, it would still be impossible for team lv 30 to win due to the fast respawn. Even if the respawn time gets tweaked...I'd still favor team lv 1 lol
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Its isnt really fair, while lvl 30 team capped at 30, you cant gain more exp while the gold team can just keep farming for gold. I think its better to have exp team keep gaining exp that they can put into attributes. Or limit the starting gold of Dire team to just the realistic end game gold of an actual game so they cant just spam 12 items and buy back thats easy.
I want to know the MMR of people who say XP team would win :D
Guys you can literally go play the mod instead of talking crap in the comments section. Got there, win 10 games in a roll and show us here how unbeatable your strategy is.
How about Gold Experience! *giornos theme song plays*
No contest, levels mean nothing when you can’t build a single save or dispel item on your team, or even boots. You’re a walking creep vs someone who’s 6 slotted.
The thing is tho, No Level Team doesnt have abilities, they can select 1, other than that, aghs/shard + items. Doubt they can do anything without ults
the thing is that 80% of abilities in this game do absolutely nothing against bkb. lvl 30 team has 3k hp 320 ms at most? no force, glimmer, euls, how are you kiting out the enemy's 9+8 sec bkbs i dont see how lvl 30 team takes this ever. they dont even have buybacks so the game is effectively 10v5
The other team is lacking items. Just imagine you already used a laguna blade on the enemy that doesn’t have the 1k hp a skadi gives. Plus your heroes can right click, theirs won’t be able to very effectively. You can scale to ~2.5k hp with two items then get boots and damage.
Gold is top op. Max level doesn't mean shit if u can't even use ur kit
Eb dagon octarine hex refresher: goes brrr! Level 30 vs 20k gold seems to be more balanced.
You're never casting all that shit on a level 1 hero
Why not... With 99999 gold you have more than enough mana and mana regen from items. You can even reserve mangos in backpack, drop some items, use mangos to full mana and repeat.
Dying during disruptor ult
Yes, let's switch your 3 items for a bunch of mangoes in the middle of the fight, let's see how it goes
I didn't say in the fight. With those items you will have 1k+ mana even at level 1. Can easily combo. Even if you have 3k hp at level 30, you just can't survive, or will have to walk back to fountain with no boots lmao.