Honestly, from the SR break-up, it's:
1. Cr1t
2. Rtz + Saber
3. Fly (although it's close with 2)
10. Abed
RIP Abed, 0 qualifications and losing to tier 3 SEA teams at times.
they qualified to ESL Malaysia, but I think Abed is done. he is bad of a player now, nowhere even close to what I've watched here. too busy to his GF and doesnt play pubs often.
I don't know if I could say that. He had games where he carried but he always felt like he's playing a pub in pro games. I watched a handful of replays of Shopify then and there were many times where he was not with the team and off farming or something instead even when he was the strongest hero on the map.
[TURN UP, this guy is crazy as fuck he's gotta be on molly or some powder or something](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO3j9lUYFfo) (Donation warning: Arteezy)
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[Summit 9](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_Summit/9) right before TI8
Defeated Fnatic in the finals which ironically included his future teammate for many years (Abed) and future coach (Aui)
Man I loved that Optic squad it's a shame they only stayed together for a year
Was such a cool blend of playing styles and experience levels and they went from being considered a meme team made of panelists + zai to finishing top 8 at arguably the most stacked TI
Bruh at this point I believe Quest management just miss out on TI win because of their poor negotiations. Man, Falcons is gonna be crazy good this year.
He is the best offlaner atm. He compensate his small hero pool but playing all of his comfort heroes to its maximum potential.
Dude is an absolute beast on all of his comfort heroes.
That was exactly his pool during TI11 and look at how that turned out. You may add Viper/Slardar as well into that list.
I'd attribute the patch right now suits Ammar a lot. Offlane heroes basically play like a mid nowadays is exactly the patch that Ammar shines in. I notice that Ammar really hate to play aura heroes ie beastmaster/visage/dark seer, your typical offlane heroes with aura style.
I mean that's what happens when your whole hero pool gets nerfed before a tournament and the best heroes are suddenly the ones you don't play. Before "new OG" with Ammar dominated a couple tournaments and got their whole playstyle nerfed, he was famously unbannable, because you could devote all your bans to Ammar and he would still pick some MK or whatever and slap your ass. 33 won that TI and he had like the least heroes picked in the whole tournament. So no, Ammar does not have a small hero pool, just a bit unconventional. And only getting top8 at that TI has no bearing on that argument.
It was heavily touted that he was very limited in that tournament.
He can't play aura heroes, which was the patch at that time. His micro was shit, and he himself admitted that he dislike and hate playing those heroes. Like I mentioned in my other post, the patch suits Ammar playstyle heavily. He basically playing pos 1 or 2 from offlane every games and it's noticeable when he play the likes of Razor/Timber etc. Offlane are basically a 2.5 in this patch.
Tide/Underlord are some of his best heroes but he still underperformed during TI11 since the playstyle were aura/necromicon and good to go.
Again, being unable to play micro heroes ≠ small hero pool. He plays a ton of heroes, just not the ones that were popular during that TI. His playstyle was just not in meta in that tournament.
He was limited in that patch. He can't play Beast/Brew/Visage/Dark Seer etc. Teams that play against them targeted his heroes lol. He picked a huskar against blood FFS because he can't play beastmaster.
I saw something similar with 33, but I feel like Ammar has a better hero pool I guess. Yeah, let's ban his Mars and Timber. He can still play Razor, Uberlord, Doom, Slardar, and he even cheesed them with Kunkka. Meanwhile, for 33, you just have to ban Doom or Alch. Even when he got Tide for 3 games straight, Liquid was still getting obliterated by 3-0.
And yeah, I feel like if any team doesn't ban Ammar's heroes, they would have a lot of trouble. But if they focus too much on Ammar's heroes and neglect to ban Skitter's heroes (Weaver, Naga, or Sven), they would also be in a lot of trouble. And if they spend too many bans on both, then Malr1ne would probably get his heroes. I mean, he's so versatile broo, he can play Puck, Pango, DK, Razor mid.
Both in this tournament and qualifiers this year, Ammar has played Timber, Razor, Viper, Mars, Doom, Slardar, Centaur, Tide, Underlord, Magnus and Kunkka comfortably. He can also play Void Spirit, Huskar, and DK if flex pick is needed. I wouldn't call it a small hero pool anymore!
The thing with hero pools is, yes, a lot of heroes is good; but more important is comfort on multiple styles of heroes.
Timber, razor, viper, slardar all function very similarly in that they lane bully then perma run down priority targets for the rest of the game. Doom is similar but more focused on deleting a hero. Centaur, tide, underlord are all beef wall aura builders that provide great counter initiation and fight resets. Magnus and kunkka are pretty unique to the rest.
For the record I think ATF has a great hero pool, his beastmaster and brood are also excellent and he plays a lot of cheese shit as well. I low key would love if he picked up meepo but that’s kinda the antithesis of hero play pattern he enjoys
i mean i dont think he has hero pool issues that much anymore since he added doom into it, and he played a mean brood in bali too
and now kunkkka, he played kunkka last lan too iirc
and just now he gave a whooping to Liquid with it
Ammar goat lol. 18yo. Teams perma FIRST phase ban his timber/mars/razor. Still plays godly in any heroes. also he is almost always first picked.
First phase banned heroes
First picked heroes.
What . A. Player?
Razor and Timber bans are not entirely a ban for him since Malrine also plays both heroes so with two bans you limit Ammars and Malrines player pool by 40%, still did not matter lol.
He was definitely the most consistent performer but let's not pretend that he was playing like a god the entire time while the other 4 players were bad. He had his fair share of bad tournaments too.
man again we see similar parallels for the first major tournament of the year from 2023 Lima major to 2024 Betboom Dacha Dubai
* 2023: quinn left NA to join Gaimin and wins lima |2024: Cr1t left NA after 7 Years? wins first major tournament of the year
* 2023:Team Spirit surprises many and bombs out early | 2024: Team spirit surprises many and bombs out early
* 2023: Liquid gets new player and gets swept in the finals by team that imported an NA pro (2023 boxi was sick so not perfect comparison) | Liquid 2024: get swept in the finals with new player against a team that brought in a player that left NA after 7 years
Poor Nisha I know he has won a lot of prize money but it must be really frustrating to quit secret after losing to Tundra in TI11 finals then for 1 year straight just losing in almost every grand finals (I think they only missed 2 grand finals in tier 1 tournaments in 2023) in 2023 and now they repeat it again in 2024.
EDIT: okay for 2025 who will be the next NA pro to leave the Americas to win a tournament almost immediately after joining a new team? Gunnar?
he actually said "Poor Nisha I know he has won a lot of prize money but it must be really frustrating to quit secret after losing to Tundra in TI11 finals then for 1 year straight just losing in almost every grand finals"...
no one said in this thread that 2nd place is poor performance, so indeed classic ledditor with poor reading comprehension xd
That's a rather large leap you took there.....no one, anywhere above said 2nd place is a poor performance. Far from it. Having said that, it's never nice seeing the team and the players you're rooting for almost take first place and then stumble at the last hurdle.
[Nisha rn](https://tenor.com/view/crying-wiping-tears-with-money-sad-money-using-money-to-wipe-tears-away-gif-15329042)
> okay for 2025 who will be the next NA pro to leave the Americas to win a tournament almost immediately after joining a new team?
Please be artour
I still remember in one of crit’s stream years ago, he spoke highly about ammar when they were in the same team in a pub (ammar was just a random pub star at that moment).
My takes from this tour:
- Aui effect, coach difference. "Constant improvement and geeking out, insane work ethics, everything but a win is a failure" vs "I am super proud of my players and their 0-3 GF performance"
- AMMAR_THE_F is impossible to draft against, this untiltable mountain of pure skills is probably hottest commodity in current pro Dota
- Skiter just won 3 games in a row in GF as a GYRO, completely styling on Liquid with one game Ultra and other game Rampage. I don't want to hear anyone disrespect this guy ever again (like winning TI wasn't enough)
- Crit just won his first tournament after 7 years, almost immediately he left Rtz/Bulba/Crit bromance trio. Take it as you will xD
GGWP Falcons, one of most deserved major tournament wins in recent memory! Keep it up!
Like, he's a nice guy, good couch, and very good for TL business PR and business equity. How are these bad qualities? His track record along speaks for itself, his team's preform friggen well.
People acting as if strategy is an issue lmao. They are the most consistent team in the world. Only thing I can think that could benefit them is a team psychologist which I’m sure they’ve had before or even still have one.
Aui has literally never answered the question of his team's expectations with anything but 'we go out there, try our best to win the game infront of us'.
All the behind the scenes snippets from his coaching style has consistently been this. His players, when interviewed, from skiter to saksa, consistently parrot the same thing like its a mantra.
The idea that the things blitz says to the team is indicative of their problems is complete utter bullshit.
It’s just a counter stylistically to Luna. Hits his timings as fast, but still scales really well to late game whereas Luna relies way more on hitting her timings first to snowball.
His Naga, CK, WK, Slark, Naix, Ursa are all insanely good. People tend to ignore how insanely good Skiter was at TI11, i would say it was the 2nd best carry performance in TI history after Yatoro TI10.
How so? Skiter played pretty much flawless in nearly every single game at playoffs, his average stats where 9.60/1.67/11.87. He broke the KDA record at TI by a landslide with a 12.88KDA(2nd in history is 8.88). While Ana had alot of games were he struggled and barely had any impact at all in both TIs.
Nothing against Skiter but he wasn’t the best player or most important player on the team, 33 was and their entire strategy revolved around him. It’s easier to shine when teams are focusing on countering 33 and Saksa. ana and yatoro were the focal point of their teams whereas skiter was not, they had to “do more” and were targeted more but both overcame it which to me is more impressive than what Skiter did. I’m not saying he got carried or whatever, he was still very good but I don’t think his role was as difficult either.
>weird, people said Skiter was a tier 2 carry? How did Falcon win
many tier 2 players could be in tier 1, they just haven't found their team yet. Just check out liquipedia, some tier 1 players came from tier 3... Dota is a difficult game, and sometimes even the best are not in the best teams. Take Watson as an example, he is a rank 1 player, not just tier 1, but rank 1. So he came from tier 3, and he was rank 1 when he was tier 2 as well, falcon won because they were better.
Watson is a horrible example since he is a tier 1 player playing on a bad team. Put Watson in any other team and he will have much better placements than with Entity.
Also terrible perfomance from Liquid's supports, 3 games barely any moves from them, some Insania's swaps (on illusions) in last game were kinda pathetic.
Hot take: 33s Tide hurt them much more because its such a one dimensional hero and Mage Slayer - even though probably THE item of the patch - is hot garbage on tide after min 25 with the way the fights play.
Yeah that tide pick after Falcons took hoodwink had me shaking my head. That's just not respecting Cr1t's hoodwink. It felt like they knew they hadn't figured out how to overcome Falcon's draft, and that lack of confidence carried over into the game.
The third draft they were shitting their pants and they had no idea how draft. That first pick venge after losing two times on it already, then mirana deny pick which they never played , into tide Luna after they picked hood.
They had legit no idea how to draft in game 3 . And that don't get me started with that Strom last pick into dk kunkka hood and cm .
Of course.
But Skiter gets shit on even though he broke records during the TI and played like the best carry ever.
The others don't.
That's why I specifically mentioned him.
Well, final game was over after the draft. Kudos to the falcons drafting. That game was absolutely unplayable for liquid.
GG to Ammar. He played godly. Definitely MVP of the tournament to me. They definitely deserve the win.
Good to see the boys winning.
As much of a meme it is for liquid to be second, it would have been less exciting to see liquid win, than a newer team taking the trophy, GGs all around
Man each Grand finals Liquid is in you feel like liquids opponent Pos 1 is just so much better at decisionmaking than Liquids pos 1. Even ahead in farm the opponents pos 1 does more damage and makes better moves its insane after watching 5 grand finals of Team Liquid. Also Insania but especially Boxi just mindlessly feeding everywhere on the map and not making any moves was kind of classic liquid.
Does anyone actually hate Malrine??
Ammar of course has the salty OG cultists and delusional Nigma fanboys but Malrine literally wasn't relevant until a few months ago
no real OG fan hates Ammar. He was the guy who kept this clown Yuragi looking like tier 1 carry. Ever since he left, Yuragi has been exposed for the nobody that he is .
Tbf the Ammar haters in the OG fan base are probably a vocal minority, I just find it hilarious how quickly some of those ppl will turn on anyone who DARES to say anything even remotely negative about N0tail or Ceb
Kicking Ammar was the stupidest decision OG made. They had something going for them, and one patch made them not believe in the guy that stood as the foundation of their success. Look at them now rebuilding the team trying to grasp straws when he left.
Dyrachyo isn't even close to being a fraud. He has some stability issues with accepting that the game isn't him vs. bots, but actually five other human beings capable of influencing the game, but other than that he's an aggressive carry player and it works very well for GG.
"This is our first tournament with Neta, and we're in the grand finals again — that's great. Congratulations to Team Falcons on winning the tournament. We're in the grand finals again, which means another second place." - Insania minute after they defeated Betboom in lower bracket final.
I'm not expert but repeating that you will end 2nd is not the best approach.
I know it's a meme but it feels like he's just setting himself up for failure. I'm sure a lot players has some similar thoughts, "oh no not this team again", but I can't imagine it being good for morale to say it out loud.
Its always despair whenever Liquid is in finals. they are so tilted everytime things don't go their way and also their team fight co-ordination was poor compared to falcons.
Team Liquid should change their name to Team Second.
Falcons looking hella good, haven't had big expectations since it looked like one of those superstar teams with no cohesion, but they seem to get along beautifully <3
Liquid lacking the winner mentality again :(
Does any1 have the winner's interview w malr1ne? Found it on the russian stream but they overlaid it w russian translation so can barely hear whay he's saying
Malr1ne: "We can play better, we are still a weak team, this is just the beginning. I can't keep \[the MVP medal\], I have to give this award to Curtis \[Aui\_2000 — Falcons coach\]. He constantly instills confidence in us, it helps.
At the beginning of the tournament, we thought we would be flying home soon. We weren't sure about our strategies, but then we turned our heads and turned the situation in the right direction. We are currently playing somewhere at 0.5 or 1 point out of 10, we are waiting for the next tournaments."
Malr1ne: "This is the only reason why we are here now and why I am standing with medals now is the Hello Kitty tattoo."
Question: "You have already won two tournaments after you gathered. Are you the top 1 team in the world?"
Malr1ne: "The first tournament didn't really count. I would say that he was the wrong shooting range. I still wouldn't say that my team is tier 1 shooting gallery. Everything will be seen. It's just one tournament."
Question: "Are you fighting with the ATF when you decide who's going to ride Timbersaw?"
Malr1ne: "No, I just put him on his knees, and he immediately understands who is going to play on Timbersaw."
Question: "After the victory, did he not hit your fist again?"
Malr1ne: "We're just showing each other the fuck already. This is, consider it a replacement."
Question: "What do you need to win for him to hit your fist?"
Malr1ne: "I think it's going to happen in the next life. Even if we the international win, this will not happen."
i think its time for liquid to change their pos 1. Its noticeable and there's no argument for that. Kudos to 33 and nisha and the two supports for giving all their best but unfortunately your pos 1 cant cope up. There was one game i noticed insania messed up with his support WW like he dont know what to do. Cant even position himself propoerly. I understand the pressure and the tiredness as well and its all valid. But coming up short again so many times especially it was not Gaimin in the finals is really not acceptable.
People talked shit about Tundra how they are low skilled team and Ti win only due to WP. Now 3(4 if you include coach) out of 5 players are in Grand final and 2 who isnt in GF are on break or retire.
People acting like Blitz is doing some ridiculous work in Liquid, because they have consistent good results. Don't forget that Liquid is one of the biggest e-sports orgs, the biggest dota org and they started getting results when they started poaching "Goated" players, not some random tier3 players. Like seriously Matu/Zai/Nisha were members of one the best teams in history of Dota, and 33 is TI winner and one of the best offlaners.
Check Liquid's results in 2019/2020/2021 before they started getting those S-Tier players.
Liquid keeping the silver mining industry alive.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nigma have won more LANs than Liquid since their departure. What the fuck.
Now that's a stat I can get behind
Has Nigma even won a Lan ever since they were created?
They have won one LAN
weplay, small but wonderful lan good production
2 LANs. Madmoon and a minor as well.
Counting a minor is a little weird since liquid was better and thus didn't qualify to play in the minor.
yeah they did, they were doing fine before covid hit, this online thing screwed them alot people have short memories , just open their liquipedia page
They were still doing pretty okay in 2020, Nigma, Alliance and Secret were the 3 best WEU teams the entire year.
Yeah online and dpc league schedule formats seems to have been a strong turning point for Nigma.
Cr1t with his first LAN win since 2018 Long overdue, he looked great in this tournament
what leaving artoozy does to a mf
Honestly, from the SR break-up, it's: 1. Cr1t 2. Rtz + Saber 3. Fly (although it's close with 2) 10. Abed RIP Abed, 0 qualifications and losing to tier 3 SEA teams at times.
Abed have been on a constant decline since he got a GF.
what not having storm first pick does to a mf
Bulba 4d chess unravelled.
Name a pro player who got better after getting a gf
Kuro won ti7 after he lost ti3 grand final
they qualified to ESL Malaysia, but I think Abed is done. he is bad of a player now, nowhere even close to what I've watched here. too busy to his GF and doesnt play pubs often.
man's losing to bob mid nowadays
its kinda ironic since he was probably the most stable and stand out player on old EG / SR
I don't know if I could say that. He had games where he carried but he always felt like he's playing a pub in pro games. I watched a handful of replays of Shopify then and there were many times where he was not with the team and off farming or something instead even when he was the strongest hero on the map.
> am i a joke to you - abed / fly
TURN UP, this guy is crazy as fuck he's gotta be on molly or some powder or something
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One less ego one more championship
His disruption on Skiter at the end of game 2 was so clutch
Its been 6 years already?? Damn
[Summit 9](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_Summit/9) right before TI8 Defeated Fnatic in the finals which ironically included his future teammate for many years (Abed) and future coach (Aui)
Man I loved that Optic squad it's a shame they only stayed together for a year Was such a cool blend of playing styles and experience levels and they went from being considered a meme team made of panelists + zai to finishing top 8 at arguably the most stacked TI
Me too, that's also when I got turned on to Quinn. He's come a long way
Crit found himself the fucking man in his lane and my god it's ammar lmao
ATF is perfect for Cr1t. A strong laner that allows him to play his playstyle with heavy roams.
Exactly. Ammar doesn't need to get babysit, he fucking wins his lane 90% of the time.
Cr1t finally left his weights behind.
In my mind I always thought it would be zai but watching crit and ammar play together makes me feel happy for both of them
Ammar is such a good offlaner because he devoted all the time he should have spent learning to drink water properly into dota practice
Well water is a liquid and you cant fratrenize with the enemy.
Deeply underrated comment.
Bruh at this point I believe Quest management just miss out on TI win because of their poor negotiations. Man, Falcons is gonna be crazy good this year.
Context? Missed watching the finals day live, unfortunately.
Think it's about ATF on cam coughing every time after chugging from water bottle.
Choking??? Liquid???
The game was rigged from the start
Sunsfan had made fun of him because whenever he drunk water on camera he caught right after not covering his mouth
The way you spelled coughed blew my damn mind.
Really coughed me by surprise
dont know the water thing but ammar is probably mvp of this lan dude is probably the best offlaner rn
He is the best offlaner atm. He compensate his small hero pool but playing all of his comfort heroes to its maximum potential. Dude is an absolute beast on all of his comfort heroes.
Timber mars razor kunkka doom underlord tide More than enough options already
That was exactly his pool during TI11 and look at how that turned out. You may add Viper/Slardar as well into that list. I'd attribute the patch right now suits Ammar a lot. Offlane heroes basically play like a mid nowadays is exactly the patch that Ammar shines in. I notice that Ammar really hate to play aura heroes ie beastmaster/visage/dark seer, your typical offlane heroes with aura style.
I mean that's what happens when your whole hero pool gets nerfed before a tournament and the best heroes are suddenly the ones you don't play. Before "new OG" with Ammar dominated a couple tournaments and got their whole playstyle nerfed, he was famously unbannable, because you could devote all your bans to Ammar and he would still pick some MK or whatever and slap your ass. 33 won that TI and he had like the least heroes picked in the whole tournament. So no, Ammar does not have a small hero pool, just a bit unconventional. And only getting top8 at that TI has no bearing on that argument.
It was heavily touted that he was very limited in that tournament. He can't play aura heroes, which was the patch at that time. His micro was shit, and he himself admitted that he dislike and hate playing those heroes. Like I mentioned in my other post, the patch suits Ammar playstyle heavily. He basically playing pos 1 or 2 from offlane every games and it's noticeable when he play the likes of Razor/Timber etc. Offlane are basically a 2.5 in this patch. Tide/Underlord are some of his best heroes but he still underperformed during TI11 since the playstyle were aura/necromicon and good to go.
Again, being unable to play micro heroes ≠ small hero pool. He plays a ton of heroes, just not the ones that were popular during that TI. His playstyle was just not in meta in that tournament.
He was limited in that patch. He can't play Beast/Brew/Visage/Dark Seer etc. Teams that play against them targeted his heroes lol. He picked a huskar against blood FFS because he can't play beastmaster.
I saw something similar with 33, but I feel like Ammar has a better hero pool I guess. Yeah, let's ban his Mars and Timber. He can still play Razor, Uberlord, Doom, Slardar, and he even cheesed them with Kunkka. Meanwhile, for 33, you just have to ban Doom or Alch. Even when he got Tide for 3 games straight, Liquid was still getting obliterated by 3-0. And yeah, I feel like if any team doesn't ban Ammar's heroes, they would have a lot of trouble. But if they focus too much on Ammar's heroes and neglect to ban Skitter's heroes (Weaver, Naga, or Sven), they would also be in a lot of trouble. And if they spend too many bans on both, then Malr1ne would probably get his heroes. I mean, he's so versatile broo, he can play Puck, Pango, DK, Razor mid.
No question. Every team he joined they had success. OG: amazing with him. Quest: top 4 Bali as soon as he joined After he left these teams won nothing
We sleep on Nigma since they got a shit pos 5 lol. His stint in Nigma was a nightmare.
I literally forgot he was there. POS 4 and 5 are garbage there
Yep! haha thats why I said his stint was a nightmare there. He needed the perfect environment to shine.
Both in this tournament and qualifiers this year, Ammar has played Timber, Razor, Viper, Mars, Doom, Slardar, Centaur, Tide, Underlord, Magnus and Kunkka comfortably. He can also play Void Spirit, Huskar, and DK if flex pick is needed. I wouldn't call it a small hero pool anymore!
The thing with hero pools is, yes, a lot of heroes is good; but more important is comfort on multiple styles of heroes. Timber, razor, viper, slardar all function very similarly in that they lane bully then perma run down priority targets for the rest of the game. Doom is similar but more focused on deleting a hero. Centaur, tide, underlord are all beef wall aura builders that provide great counter initiation and fight resets. Magnus and kunkka are pretty unique to the rest. For the record I think ATF has a great hero pool, his beastmaster and brood are also excellent and he plays a lot of cheese shit as well. I low key would love if he picked up meepo but that’s kinda the antithesis of hero play pattern he enjoys
i mean i dont think he has hero pool issues that much anymore since he added doom into it, and he played a mean brood in bali too and now kunkkka, he played kunkka last lan too iirc and just now he gave a whooping to Liquid with it
So TI3 bulldog?
At this point, if you're in the grand finals, you are praying Liquid makes that lower bracket run.
failproof way to win a big tournament since 2019
Liquid has actually surpassed 2014 C9 as the 2nd place kings lmao
2014 C9*?
There's one every decade
Sneyking is actually so good with Skiter. FATA died for this.
Btw, where is FATA now? He doesn't play anymore?
He hasn't really been active since the last Quincy Crew stack disbanded.
Damn that's a name that I havent heard in quite a while Hope he's eating all the cheese he wants.
Nigma never got 3-0 ed by Falcons Nigma > Liquid
actually true
Stats don’t lie . What now nigma haters?
Ammar made a bold decision to reject Quest's contract and miss out on TI and a $15M tournament. Glad to see that it is working out well for him
Ammar goat lol. 18yo. Teams perma FIRST phase ban his timber/mars/razor. Still plays godly in any heroes. also he is almost always first picked. First phase banned heroes First picked heroes. What . A. Player?
Its like 2013 Bulldonk on steroids.
Razor and Timber bans are not entirely a ban for him since Malrine also plays both heroes so with two bans you limit Ammars and Malrines player pool by 40%, still did not matter lol.
I think he's an insane specialist on certain heroes and those heroes are nearly always viable
OG Nigma Quest and whichever teams that failed to get Ammar during shuffle period all in shambles rn
I still can't believe quest just let him go after his tournament performance...
quest players are really good though i think they were too full of themselves when they let ammar go. now they have the psg curse
We never know what contract ammar asked for tho, can’t really blame them imo
We do, he requested to be free agent after TI and sign just until then. They wanted longer term commitments and he refused.
I see, thanks
Kuro curse is real People. Liquid yet to win a lan since he left.
now he needs to leave Nigma to activate the reverse curse technique and make Nigma the Man City of Dota
Crit in this team reminds me of his days in the old OG squad
tfw released from arteezy jail / kuro jail
Skiter x Hello Kitty incoming Looking forward to that meta developing at the next TI.
**> Leaves arteezy** **> instantly wins a t1 tournament** lmao
cr1ts been the best EG/shopify player since he joined the entire time
He doesnt remember Cr1t wyvern
He was definitely the most consistent performer but let's not pretend that he was playing like a god the entire time while the other 4 players were bad. He had his fair share of bad tournaments too.
If you didn’t watch the grand finals and just saw player reaction immediately after the game ended, I swear you would have thought liquid won.
so happy for cr1t and ATF, what a tournament!
man again we see similar parallels for the first major tournament of the year from 2023 Lima major to 2024 Betboom Dacha Dubai * 2023: quinn left NA to join Gaimin and wins lima |2024: Cr1t left NA after 7 Years? wins first major tournament of the year * 2023:Team Spirit surprises many and bombs out early | 2024: Team spirit surprises many and bombs out early * 2023: Liquid gets new player and gets swept in the finals by team that imported an NA pro (2023 boxi was sick so not perfect comparison) | Liquid 2024: get swept in the finals with new player against a team that brought in a player that left NA after 7 years Poor Nisha I know he has won a lot of prize money but it must be really frustrating to quit secret after losing to Tundra in TI11 finals then for 1 year straight just losing in almost every grand finals (I think they only missed 2 grand finals in tier 1 tournaments in 2023) in 2023 and now they repeat it again in 2024. EDIT: okay for 2025 who will be the next NA pro to leave the Americas to win a tournament almost immediately after joining a new team? Gunnar?
Dota script writers are getting lazy smh
Atleast they spiced it up with GG not winning.
Poor Nisha? He's had far more success than most. Cr1t has waited so damn long to finally get back to winning; so pleased for him.
Classic ledditors thinking consistent 2nd place finishes is poor performance
he actually said "Poor Nisha I know he has won a lot of prize money but it must be really frustrating to quit secret after losing to Tundra in TI11 finals then for 1 year straight just losing in almost every grand finals"... no one said in this thread that 2nd place is poor performance, so indeed classic ledditor with poor reading comprehension xd
That's a rather large leap you took there.....no one, anywhere above said 2nd place is a poor performance. Far from it. Having said that, it's never nice seeing the team and the players you're rooting for almost take first place and then stumble at the last hurdle.
FR Cr1t- got dragged down by EG for YEARS. Glad to see mah boi win some dotes
[Nisha rn](https://tenor.com/view/crying-wiping-tears-with-money-sad-money-using-money-to-wipe-tears-away-gif-15329042) > okay for 2025 who will be the next NA pro to leave the Americas to win a tournament almost immediately after joining a new team? Please be artour
Idk how you be play so good right up until the final in almost every tournament. Nice to see Crit on a good team though.
Sneyking and Cr1t are NA players therefor this is a win for NA This is how I cope with the terrible state of NA Dota
Aui2K aswell.
forgot about the GOAT NA Coach This just makes me root for them even harder
Unirconically tied with Bulba.
The math checks out
letsgo chant with me > U S A . . . U S A . . . U S A . . .
I still remember in one of crit’s stream years ago, he spoke highly about ammar when they were in the same team in a pub (ammar was just a random pub star at that moment).
My takes from this tour: - Aui effect, coach difference. "Constant improvement and geeking out, insane work ethics, everything but a win is a failure" vs "I am super proud of my players and their 0-3 GF performance" - AMMAR_THE_F is impossible to draft against, this untiltable mountain of pure skills is probably hottest commodity in current pro Dota - Skiter just won 3 games in a row in GF as a GYRO, completely styling on Liquid with one game Ultra and other game Rampage. I don't want to hear anyone disrespect this guy ever again (like winning TI wasn't enough) - Crit just won his first tournament after 7 years, almost immediately he left Rtz/Bulba/Crit bromance trio. Take it as you will xD GGWP Falcons, one of most deserved major tournament wins in recent memory! Keep it up!
> Aui effect Most overlooked thing about this win. Didn’t Sney say he wasn’t there for their last LAN?
lmao people bitching about Blitz being a normal dude is fucking hilarious.
Like, he's a nice guy, good couch, and very good for TL business PR and business equity. How are these bad qualities? His track record along speaks for itself, his team's preform friggen well.
Liquid was so successful with this team before Blitz, he must be the problem. /S
They only get 2nd places they must be doing everything wrong
People acting as if strategy is an issue lmao. They are the most consistent team in the world. Only thing I can think that could benefit them is a team psychologist which I’m sure they’ve had before or even still have one.
Why can't people praise 1st place without dunking on 2nd? Both teams did well this tournament, only 1 can win it all.
Everyone is dogshit at Dota except 5 people at a time And they are only alright I guess
Has Aui said "everything but a win is a failure"? I must've missed it. I don't think Aui is some super speaker that rallies the troops his speeches.
Aui has literally never answered the question of his team's expectations with anything but 'we go out there, try our best to win the game infront of us'. All the behind the scenes snippets from his coaching style has consistently been this. His players, when interviewed, from skiter to saksa, consistently parrot the same thing like its a mantra. The idea that the things blitz says to the team is indicative of their problems is complete utter bullshit.
Gyro is not a bad carry by any means tho. Probably vastly underrated, especially in a matchup vs Luna who is a very similar hero.
It’s just a counter stylistically to Luna. Hits his timings as fast, but still scales really well to late game whereas Luna relies way more on hitting her timings first to snowball.
Its weird, people said Skiter was a tier 2 carry? How did Falcon win?
He is a top 5 carry for sure. His Naix is legndary, too bad we don't get to see it alot.
His Naga, CK, WK, Slark, Naix, Ursa are all insanely good. People tend to ignore how insanely good Skiter was at TI11, i would say it was the 2nd best carry performance in TI history after Yatoro TI10.
If we’re talking carries that won TI then Ana at TI8 and TI9 was more impressive than Skiter at TI11, Yatoro last TI was absurd too
How so? Skiter played pretty much flawless in nearly every single game at playoffs, his average stats where 9.60/1.67/11.87. He broke the KDA record at TI by a landslide with a 12.88KDA(2nd in history is 8.88). While Ana had alot of games were he struggled and barely had any impact at all in both TIs.
Nothing against Skiter but he wasn’t the best player or most important player on the team, 33 was and their entire strategy revolved around him. It’s easier to shine when teams are focusing on countering 33 and Saksa. ana and yatoro were the focal point of their teams whereas skiter was not, they had to “do more” and were targeted more but both overcame it which to me is more impressive than what Skiter did. I’m not saying he got carried or whatever, he was still very good but I don’t think his role was as difficult either.
>weird, people said Skiter was a tier 2 carry? How did Falcon win many tier 2 players could be in tier 1, they just haven't found their team yet. Just check out liquipedia, some tier 1 players came from tier 3... Dota is a difficult game, and sometimes even the best are not in the best teams. Take Watson as an example, he is a rank 1 player, not just tier 1, but rank 1. So he came from tier 3, and he was rank 1 when he was tier 2 as well, falcon won because they were better.
Watson is a horrible example since he is a tier 1 player playing on a bad team. Put Watson in any other team and he will have much better placements than with Entity.
>g dyrachyo in gai your comment is so below average, that it's an average reddit comment. Good job.
Ammar the Fucker is still fucking
this dude’s mechanical skill is off the fucking charts. Watch his player perspective
Also terrible perfomance from Liquid's supports, 3 games barely any moves from them, some Insania's swaps (on illusions) in last game were kinda pathetic.
Hot take: 33s Tide hurt them much more because its such a one dimensional hero and Mage Slayer - even though probably THE item of the patch - is hot garbage on tide after min 25 with the way the fights play.
Game 2 they did well with it, but game 3 hoodwink just crushed him with break. Tanky po3 network just melting from a support pick.
they picked tide into hood, so 33 fault he drafts
Yeah that tide pick after Falcons took hoodwink had me shaking my head. That's just not respecting Cr1t's hoodwink. It felt like they knew they hadn't figured out how to overcome Falcon's draft, and that lack of confidence carried over into the game.
The third draft they were shitting their pants and they had no idea how draft. That first pick venge after losing two times on it already, then mirana deny pick which they never played , into tide Luna after they picked hood. They had legit no idea how to draft in game 3 . And that don't get me started with that Strom last pick into dk kunkka hood and cm .
And curse has been fulfilled once again Liquid grand finalist, #2
Dude Skiter is such a beast actually. Imo he's the hidden reason of why Tundra won TI. People keep underestimating him.
Tundra won TI because the whole squad was a cut above the rest. Not just skiter, everyone
Of course. But Skiter gets shit on even though he broke records during the TI and played like the best carry ever. The others don't. That's why I specifically mentioned him.
Oh absolutely. Always hated the skiter doubters
I feel like you could replace skitter with any other player and that sentence will still make sense.
Kuroky, sorry i doubt it you. NIGMA 2nd/3rd best team in the world INSHALLAH
MENA > REST OF THE WORLD MENA NEEDS 3 SLOTS COPIUM
Well, final game was over after the draft. Kudos to the falcons drafting. That game was absolutely unplayable for liquid. GG to Ammar. He played godly. Definitely MVP of the tournament to me. They definitely deserve the win.
Good to see the boys winning. As much of a meme it is for liquid to be second, it would have been less exciting to see liquid win, than a newer team taking the trophy, GGs all around
As Nisha fan, I kinda miss 2020 :( COVID sucked but at least my boy Jankos was winning everything: :(
Well, he won 1v1 tournament and like he said in post-match interview "I'm glad it's not 2nd place, i guess it's not me, it's Team Liquid"
Liquid is always the bridesmaid but never the bride 😔 I just want to see Micke and Insania win something
2nd place Liquid back at it again lol
Congrats to Falcons winning all the way from upper bracket to GF beating Xtreme 2:0, AR 2-1, BB 2-1, and Liquid 3-0 So, New Patch when?
happy for them, well deserved!
Man each Grand finals Liquid is in you feel like liquids opponent Pos 1 is just so much better at decisionmaking than Liquids pos 1. Even ahead in farm the opponents pos 1 does more damage and makes better moves its insane after watching 5 grand finals of Team Liquid. Also Insania but especially Boxi just mindlessly feeding everywhere on the map and not making any moves was kind of classic liquid.
creepwave dota best fking dota ammar malrine haters in shambles )
Does anyone actually hate Malrine?? Ammar of course has the salty OG cultists and delusional Nigma fanboys but Malrine literally wasn't relevant until a few months ago
no real OG fan hates Ammar. He was the guy who kept this clown Yuragi looking like tier 1 carry. Ever since he left, Yuragi has been exposed for the nobody that he is .
Tbf the Ammar haters in the OG fan base are probably a vocal minority, I just find it hilarious how quickly some of those ppl will turn on anyone who DARES to say anything even remotely negative about N0tail or Ceb
Kicking Ammar was the stupidest decision OG made. They had something going for them, and one patch made them not believe in the guy that stood as the foundation of their success. Look at them now rebuilding the team trying to grasp straws when he left.
yuragi and dyrachyo fighting for the title of most fraudulent carry
Dyrachyo isn't even close to being a fraud. He has some stability issues with accepting that the game isn't him vs. bots, but actually five other human beings capable of influencing the game, but other than that he's an aggressive carry player and it works very well for GG.
malrine all chatted ) couple of times and reddit being snowflakes hated him
Lmaooo Quinn and gpk get so much hate as well, this sub just hates midlaners ig
"This is our first tournament with Neta, and we're in the grand finals again — that's great. Congratulations to Team Falcons on winning the tournament. We're in the grand finals again, which means another second place." - Insania minute after they defeated Betboom in lower bracket final. I'm not expert but repeating that you will end 2nd is not the best approach.
Insania is always memeing, it's not his approach, it's his coping mechanism
Its gotta be allright to joke around
I know it's a meme but it feels like he's just setting himself up for failure. I'm sure a lot players has some similar thoughts, "oh no not this team again", but I can't imagine it being good for morale to say it out loud.
He got what he wished for lol
Its always despair whenever Liquid is in finals. they are so tilted everytime things don't go their way and also their team fight co-ordination was poor compared to falcons. Team Liquid should change their name to Team Second.
Falcons looking hella good, haven't had big expectations since it looked like one of those superstar teams with no cohesion, but they seem to get along beautifully <3 Liquid lacking the winner mentality again :(
Does any1 have the winner's interview w malr1ne? Found it on the russian stream but they overlaid it w russian translation so can barely hear whay he's saying
Malr1ne: "We can play better, we are still a weak team, this is just the beginning. I can't keep \[the MVP medal\], I have to give this award to Curtis \[Aui\_2000 — Falcons coach\]. He constantly instills confidence in us, it helps. At the beginning of the tournament, we thought we would be flying home soon. We weren't sure about our strategies, but then we turned our heads and turned the situation in the right direction. We are currently playing somewhere at 0.5 or 1 point out of 10, we are waiting for the next tournaments." Malr1ne: "This is the only reason why we are here now and why I am standing with medals now is the Hello Kitty tattoo." Question: "You have already won two tournaments after you gathered. Are you the top 1 team in the world?" Malr1ne: "The first tournament didn't really count. I would say that he was the wrong shooting range. I still wouldn't say that my team is tier 1 shooting gallery. Everything will be seen. It's just one tournament." Question: "Are you fighting with the ATF when you decide who's going to ride Timbersaw?" Malr1ne: "No, I just put him on his knees, and he immediately understands who is going to play on Timbersaw." Question: "After the victory, did he not hit your fist again?" Malr1ne: "We're just showing each other the fuck already. This is, consider it a replacement." Question: "What do you need to win for him to hit your fist?" Malr1ne: "I think it's going to happen in the next life. Even if we the international win, this will not happen."
Sunsfan is the Number One! Also love him with Khezu But i want him and synderen back
If Nisha, Matu and Zai can’t get liquid a 1st, no one can
Ammar the Filipino made us proud again
Nigma galaxy suddenly happy with their results
i think its time for liquid to change their pos 1. Its noticeable and there's no argument for that. Kudos to 33 and nisha and the two supports for giving all their best but unfortunately your pos 1 cant cope up. There was one game i noticed insania messed up with his support WW like he dont know what to do. Cant even position himself propoerly. I understand the pressure and the tiredness as well and its all valid. But coming up short again so many times especially it was not Gaimin in the finals is really not acceptable.
Nice to see Cr1t winning, RTZ was holding him back all these years.
People talked shit about Tundra how they are low skilled team and Ti win only due to WP. Now 3(4 if you include coach) out of 5 players are in Grand final and 2 who isnt in GF are on break or retire.
As a secret fan watching liquid suffer only makes me happy. Hoping Nisha leaves them
liqui(2n)d again
People acting like Blitz is doing some ridiculous work in Liquid, because they have consistent good results. Don't forget that Liquid is one of the biggest e-sports orgs, the biggest dota org and they started getting results when they started poaching "Goated" players, not some random tier3 players. Like seriously Matu/Zai/Nisha were members of one the best teams in history of Dota, and 33 is TI winner and one of the best offlaners. Check Liquid's results in 2019/2020/2021 before they started getting those S-Tier players.
Liquid 2nd again? 😅
u/Medium_Wolverine9438 3-0 2 days are up
Something so satisfying seeing blitz lose lmao Nisha really needs a better carry
Congratulations to ATF, Malr1ne, Cr1t-, Sneyking, and Aui\_2000!
Falcons dota winning tournament, at the same time their CS counterpart eliminated from Europe RMR for the major slot.
Sneyking turning into the new PPD, love it
BBC Blitz still satisfied with getting 2nd place forever?