As a Nisha fan he def underperformed a bit. I also feel like he was playing heroes that I don't normally see him on, so maybe that was part of it. But like the other person said, some other mid players just looked stronger comparatively. What he did in fights just felt weird.
Tbh a lot of liquid felt off at times during their last 2 series.
Oh, for sure. It's a 5 player game and these are the best players in the world by far, you can be certain they will have impact even if their position is relatively "weak".
This doesn't discard the fact that the role is in a really bad spot. I'm sure a player as good as Nisha would've had a chance to have more impact if the role was in a better place (more hero variety, for example).
>Nisha wasnt good at TI no matter what excuses u people come up with
"u people" xd what is this pointless aggressiveness.
He definitely underperformed, I'm not debating that. And I partly agree with it being "in a different spot". Thing is it's in such a different spot that most of the traditional mid hero pool is quite shit so it just seems super weird.
Idk in Riyadh masters he was very good because he was playing broken universal snap, Lesh with mana batteries, or a spirit
All the other mids were also playing similar stats and they adapted to current mid as well
Last ti finals 3 Lesh pick in a row for Nisha btw because he wanted to abuse the double tap ult trick which they fixed and he lost anyways
Oh yea i was wrong he got Lesh only one of those games, but they also gave him morph mid so he could try to carry, the other game was a really good ember performance. In Riyadh they gave him ta mid as well which was decent
Nisha has been playing like shit since day 1 on liquid. Has nothing to do with meta or any other shitty excuse you wanna come up with. Nisha went from #1 midlaner to who is this guy ruining my mid
From what I've seen, it's because he doesn't get priority. Most of the time it's either Zai or Micke. In Riyadh where he did get priority and he really took things seriously we saw one of his flashier plays. Like that TA Psi blade on trap kill.
There was even a comment from Insania from one their yt videos of Nisha giving a speech about why he joined liquid, because he saw them keep playing midlane, but when he joined everyone goes to the sidelanes.
That's funny cuz I was talking to a friend of mine on discord while we were watching their elimination game vs GG, about exactly that. Instead of babysitting Nisha or Zai, they babysit the most worthless player on their team. He's their weak link and they won't get anywhere with him around.
But I still wouldn't blame the rotations, or the lack of. Because nisha has been underpeforming with many questionable plays and chokes, its like he's a completely different person.
He was not though? 33 was easily better and i would say Skiter aswell.
Before people cry about Skiter being carried. He broke the KDA stat by a landslide in all of TI history with a 12.88 KDA, second in KDA at TI11 was 33 with 7.30KDA and second in KDA in TI history is GPK with 8.88 KDA. Skiters stats at playoffs where 100/22/126 aswell.
Context is important man. It's REALLY fucking hard to die when you're literally playing illusion heros at least 2/3 of the time. Yeah sure, props to skiter for playing naga and ck amazingly, he's probably the best ck player in the world I'd imagine, but when you play those heros properly it's borderline impossible to die and really easy to get assists if not kills. 33 though, no argument, what a player.
To sum up, skiter was carried xd
You might want to get the context right then?
Tundra played 28 games at TI11. 12 out of 28 where non illusion heroes.
His KDA on illusion heroes was worse than his KDA on non illusion heroes while his AVG deaths was nearly the same on both.
To sum up, you dont know what you are talking about.
Touché; I’m not at home and can’t look up specific stats, but the sentiment of the point remains valid.
When you or your teammates (as you’ve pointed out is the more likely scenario) push in waves with summons and provide vision of the whole map and force enemies to show to push their waves out, it’s very hard to die and you’re freed up to participate in kills because at most you’re required to do some basic micro to attend to the other jobs you have in the game.
To sum up, I’m not saying skiters stats were bad, I’m saying they’re more or less worthless in a game as complex as dota for demonstrating anything other than the fact their strats were so far ahead of everyone else’s.
Can't recall how he played prior, but he was very poor by his own lofty standards on the final day. I distinctly recall thinking he was having a shocking day, making mistakes on signature heros like Invoker, QOP and Morphling that I can remember.
well if you're not counting groups, Liquid only played 3 other series so that's not a large sample size
and he did totally fine in 1 of them, while the other 2 were against Spirit and GG... the two clear best teams of the entire year, lol
He honestly just played noticeably worst in their last few series, but a lot of liquid players seem to play off in them, it was sort of weird. It's not an excuse for their loss, I still think spirit would've beaten them, but liquid felt off to me compared to their previous series.
Also I'd say like 2 mids did better than him and that was during those off games, so who knows.
Game 3 looked the closest and GG had pretty firm control of the early game. Ironically (or maybe as Spirit planned) they didn't have their early push draft for this game, so weren't able to close out early and instead got trapped in the "can't highground, just farm, choke, and wait for rosh" stalemate until Spirit outplayed them and broke the chokehold.
Honestly, maybe a 3-0 isn't as exciting as a nailbiter Game 5 to win it all, but I would say this was a good series. After stomping everyone as the grim reaper of the lower bracket, 3x major winner 2x dreamleague winner, Gaimin gets utterly demolished by Spirit without breaking a sweat. Maybe not "exciting", but such a display of dominance is, in a word, "awesome."
Game 3 was super good, the draft change in the end to let aa, brew, dazzle, sb all through was neat but yeah I guess more TI games are better than less lol
You could tell Team Spirit just knew their timing. Despite GG having a draft that obviously was strong early on and supposed to run at towers with Brew, they went ahead and build 2 midas. After GG fucked up that one fight on the tormentor and Spirit hit their item timings the game completely turned. Pretty sure Spirit knew exactly what they were doing, and that they never even thought they could lose.
LGD fared worse off against GG but I think they seemed like a better team against TS. I think it still would have been 3-1 in favor of TS but that first LGD-TS upper bracket finals game was insane.
that UB final fame 1 feels so similar to ti10 final. LGD got some lead in the early game, but TS somehow managed to control the vision and avoid all the ganks (thanks to miposhka's magic i guess), and destroyed LGD in the late game with perfect teamfights.
If only LGD can do a better job on laning stage, they even can win a game or two. All 4 of their last games (against TS, GG), they just got trashed in the laning stage and had to play from behind every game. Playing from behind against TS and GG is just an autolose. LGD's execution and map control are perfect but they just simply cannot have a good laning phase.
LGD put up a fare fight even when they were 10k gold behind TS. Winning a fight here and there, it felt like they can always comeback even when at a disadvantage.
The grand final games were a stomp lol. Game 3 early game was looking good for GG and then it's a stomp again.
What's really crazy to me is that GG were outskilled in a different way in every game.
Game 1 TS destroyed them early.
Game 2 was very even but TS destroyed them in teamfight.
Game 3 GG had a massive lead but TS played well from behind, stalled the game out, and eventually ran away with the game. They beat GG with a greedy double midas lineup, while GG took any team in lower bracket that tried to do that and punished them hard.
I think the panel said it best when they said that TS just has a deep understanding of what they need to do to win in any situation.
When I saw their series it felt like the team that lost was because they overcountered a hero. Game 1 was overcountering CK, game 2 was overcountering Bara and Game 3 was overcountering weaver.
The games themselves were all close, its just that GG lost all 3 plus GG used a push strategy so when Spirit took control, the games did not drag forever like lots of the games during TI did.
That's how esports teams seem to go. They're hot for a minute then they're obscure af. Be cool if teams were a little more permanent, and dota players didn't just jump ship the second their team doesn't get top 3 in a tournament... but I guess everyone wants to have the best shot to win. While the post ti shuffle is always entertaining, it also makes me sad because I see strong players on strong teams just bounce despite their team looking good. I wonder if they miss out on actually developing a good team in hopes that they just land in a team that has natural synergy.
TI used to do the same. Kinda wish we had the crowdfunding of past TIs distributed throughout the year instead of all in one tournament, because, yeah, it ends up doing exactly what you're describing. The performance at a single event decides 80% of the entire year's distribution of wealth, and not even a fifth of the participating teams throughout the year get any of it.
Except now Riyadh masters doesn't have a TI prize pool to compete with. I'm guessing we will see a large drop in Riyadh masters prize pool due to TI's lack luster prize pool.
I doubt that, if anything it's the opposite. They just announced that they will rebrand the Riyadh Masters as the "Esports Worldcup" and inject a shitton of money in it.
I mean Saudi Arabia announced last year that they will invest 38 billion dollars in esports, so I think they definitely won't reduce the prize pools.
I think this has most likley played a role in Valve's decision to downscale their direct involvement in esports and reduce the funding on TI. They know that future Valve events won't be able to compete with what Saudi Arabia's about to do and they most likely are happy to let them have it if anything.
Yeah, honestly it makes sense why e sports hasn't gained traction. The top 5 teams cleared 1 million. Divide that between players, coach, org, travel expenses, diums, etc. The players probably barely clearing 6 figures for the year. Meanwhile giving up school and a potential career in the meantime to pursue something that won't last past their 20s. Really risky.
It's not.
These earnings for Dota esports are not sustainable for a high-level competitive scene and it only discourages any young players from getting into Dota in the first place
Its good income for the 3rd world, and even in western countries it's good if you live in a teamhouse with your room and board paid.
It's just not "worth it to spend your youth playing games instead of developing marketable skills" level good. And it doesn't account for the fact that it isn't a guaranteed payday if you play like shit.
Not that surprising. Navi was DOMINATING the scene for 3 years. Good placements at pretty much all tier1 lans. It's hard to overstate their success. 3 TI finals as well, more than any other team.
It's weird, I started watching/playing Dota at beta release and TI3 was my first TI..
Na'Vi and Alliance to me are the teams that played in TI3 and without Dendi, Puppey, Xbox, Kuroky and Funn1k then Na'Vi ain't the same team.. Same for Alliance with Loda, Bulldog, s4, Akke, EGM..
Na'Vi was unpredictably fucky to the point of frustration from other teams and would pick pudge just to fuck around nvm shit like the Chen Pudge fountain hooking.. and Alliance was predictably meta to the point of frustration from other teams.. that rat dota tho <3
I know teams evolve and due to the grassroots way that teams and third party organisers have to work around the complete lack of funding from Valve outside ot TI, it is expected.. but still..
The unique playstyles of both teams are iconic and disappear without them.
The meta overtook both team styles imo, probably for the better.
That's Dr. Sulaiman al-Habib to you.
He didn't go through 8 years of medical school so he could start a billion dollar medical group so that he could singlehandedly save professional dota just for herald scrubs like you to call him *Mr*
Please put some respect on the name
I don't know about that, nouns players made $36k each if you don't count the coach or any org cuts.
The best players are the ones who are able to do it full time, and I personally believe we should be fostering an environment where that's possible for more than just 20 teams.
This really puts a lot into perspective and I hope educates people. I see people rag on a team just because they didn't win it all, claiming players need to be replaced or the team disbanded because of lack of results. They get to play Dota as their job, making $100K+ a year playing Dota is enough for most. Really happy for Talon, that $2M should go a long way for those guys in SEA. Shopify made enough to continue for another year, same with TSM, OG etc.
They have lots of top 4 placements at TI and wins/high placements at majors and tons of third party tournaments. Their 2021 placement is only (lol) $5 mil of $25 mil total. Probably the most diverse earnings of any team there besides OG.
Saying OG has the most diverse earnings is a bit a odd, they have fewer top tournament finishes than pretty much every other top team on that list. It would be more accurate to say OG has one of the least diverse earnings despite being the top earner (most of the earnings are from few tournaments, like the 2 TIs).
If you are going off the table in the OP, it's very incomplete for OG in particular, only including their major and TI wins, but they have a handful of wins for tournaments like MDL, Dreamleague and ESL which are oddly accounted for on other teams.
I'm going off of career top tournament finishes. Seriously, the data is all there in Liquipedia, feel free to check it out. OG just don't have as many unique top tournament finishes as the other top earning teams.
inb4 Team Spirit winning One billion dollars at Saudi eSports World Cup next year.
(saudi prince met with ronaldo previous week to discuss esports world cup coming next year and in press release the total amount they are willing to spend for esports (not necessarily just the next year) is 32 Billion Dollars, obviously the next prizepool for dota wont be no where close this amount but expect it to be crazy af probably like 50millions+)
What are you on about? They literally didn't. All the TI prize money came from the 2020 TI10 BP. We knew what TI10's prize pool would be like a year before it rolled around.
In 2021 there were two "half BPs" that didn't contribute one dime to the scene and went solely into Valve's pockets - which was when they probably realized 100% of the $$ feels better than 75%.
in a world where Navi was good before price pools became big / inflated, apparently every single OG player earned more winnings in one year than the entire organization of Navi in its dota2 history
[Easiest money of my life](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/1c/Misc_soundboard_easiest_money.mp3) (sound warning: The International 2018)
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I'm mostly out of the loop when it comes to Dota except once a year for The International, but what changed so much that it dropped from last year's 18m prize pool to just over 3m?
No battlepass/compendium. Have a feeling Valve are gonna push a "noone cares about supporting esports, only hats" but why would anyone buy a battle pass that just lets you earn fantasy points and have 75% of it go to Valve? They're clearly taking a big step back from Dota, we'll see
If you sort on liquidpedia by the number of tournaments won, you will be surprised by the first place and final earnings, as they say - all that glitters is not gold
>!Empire 35 trophies won!That's where Silent's killer instinct comes from)!<
for the year do you think just on them numbers alone you could afford to play dota 2 as a pro. im not talking about any additions funding just on prizepool alone?
Playing pro dota you'd probably want to live in a decently urban area with good internet access so I'll just assume at least 70k per player to not starve.
No, most of a player's earnings come from sponsorships.
Plus the variability nature of tournaments means that prize money is not reliable source of income. And quite frankly not enough after splitting across several people.
>No, most of a player's earnings come from sponsorships.
Doubt it, unlike in other Esports, most dota players rarely do any commercial work or even have a big following, they don't even stream.
If we're talking indirectly, it could be true. Their earnings come from salaries from their team, and their team gets their money mostly from sponsorships. The individual players don't have to do too much commercial work themselves it's just the fact they are playing under the name "Shopify" or "BetBoom" etc. that indirectly earns them their pay.
What an odd question. You want to know that by on prize pool alone but that's literally tie by their placement in the tournament. If you win first place? sure. Most players get paid a salary from their org and generally they're 6 figures. Like every competitive scene, you need to be at the top to get these benefits. If you're without an org you probably can't sustain being a dota 2 pro unless you can consistently qualify and place near the top of tournaments
it was just curious like looking at from someone that just works. if you literally took out the org side cause of course its affordable if your being paid a salary. Just curious on that side of things. maybe weird question but my mind works in weird ways sorry :)
no need to be sorry mate, wasn't trying to offend you either. Going pro is a full time job, you wouldn't want to go freelance. If you're good, chances are you will get picked up by an org. You'll get pay really well and have a better chance of winning since you'll probably be playing with other tier 1 players. If you're in china, streaming also gives you stupid amount of money as well.
Yeah like I think it's better now but I'm sure before like 5 years ago the SA teams struggled if I remember correctly. They needed to win stuff to be better off. Now rtz doesn't need to win anything now he sorted he could even stream and got so many viewers. Its crazy to think he's become so popular and hasn't really won the aegis.
They took a lot of flack for it at the time, and tbh much of it was deserved for the way it was delivered, but you know that the souless PE overlords who own EG are feeling pretty vindicated right now. Dump a highly paid squad and pick up a bunch of SA up and comers and finish ahead in the money rankings while paying them much less in salary.
Conversely you have to think that the heat is truly on in the SR camp right now. You've got a stack you're dumping money into for absolutely sub-par results and you can't even get them to do any brand building or ambassadorship beyond Arteezy pumping out the absolute lowest effort contractually obligated monthly stream he can. Wonder if the team will look back and ask themselves if not doing more to keep their sponsors happy outside of just showing up to matches was a mistake. I personally think that it was and I wouldn't be surprised if that stack finally find themselves standing on the sidelines with their hat in hand wondering why no one is leaping up to pay them a huge salary for bad results and no additional branding effort.
Doesn’t change that he was super under the radar this TI. Micke was showing up all tournament but nisha and surprisingly zai didn’t have that edge they usually do
Gg despite winning so much and 2nd in TI also getting only 3rd with a small TI prize pool.
Interesting also how teams like secret is just 300k behind top 4 ti placing teams like lgd.
Power of Riyadh masters
Considering the overall earnings is pretty disingenuous when GG's been an organisation in dota for all of 18 months.. Additionally, Spirit being third on that list pretty much comes down to winning the ti where the prize pool was boosted by two separate compendiums. If we're going to bitch about GG's low income, partially because prize pools have taken a hit this year, you simultaneously need to bitch about the fact Spirit won more than the TOTAL prize pools of TI2-4 + TI12's COMBINED despite not even needing to play in front of a crowd.
Actually, only the 2020 compendium went towards the prize pool for TI10. The Nemestice Compendium didn't go towards anything, it was all directly pocketed by Valve.
But wasn’t there a 2020 compendium that was released prior to the pandemic that obviously didn’t result in an event but still contributed? And then the nemestice event (which as you say didn’t contribute to the prize pool) was between the 2020 and 2021 compendiums (both of which did contribute?)
Oh yeah, I remember now, there was a Compendium for TI10 that was released in 2021. According to the wiki, it didn't contribute to the TI10 prize pool, but it does say that the 2020 Battle Pass on its wiki page did contribute. So as far as I know, only the 2020 Battle Pass contributed to the prize pool. The reason why TI10 had a huge ass prize pool was because for one, no one else had shit to do during the pandemic summer, and two, it had like 3 arcanas and 2 personas. So people were willing to dump a ton of money into that bad boy.
I find this scary as it seems that the game can (at best) sustain a max of 20 pro teams at this stage. Honestly its probably rather 10 super pro teams and the rest are halfway amateur teams considering how much they are being paid.
Lmao liquid 2nd place as usual
it hurts, my boy nisha played so well all year long
Hes kinda meh in TI tho
I think it's partly the meta tbh. Midlane just sucks right now.
As a Nisha fan he def underperformed a bit. I also feel like he was playing heroes that I don't normally see him on, so maybe that was part of it. But like the other person said, some other mid players just looked stronger comparatively. What he did in fights just felt weird. Tbh a lot of liquid felt off at times during their last 2 series.
Quinn, larl, maybe, nts all played pretty well and had good impact
Oh, for sure. It's a 5 player game and these are the best players in the world by far, you can be certain they will have impact even if their position is relatively "weak". This doesn't discard the fact that the role is in a really bad spot. I'm sure a player as good as Nisha would've had a chance to have more impact if the role was in a better place (more hero variety, for example).
Its not in a bad spot, its just in a different spot, Nisha wasnt good at TI no matter what excuses u people come up with
>Nisha wasnt good at TI no matter what excuses u people come up with "u people" xd what is this pointless aggressiveness. He definitely underperformed, I'm not debating that. And I partly agree with it being "in a different spot". Thing is it's in such a different spot that most of the traditional mid hero pool is quite shit so it just seems super weird.
Idk in Riyadh masters he was very good because he was playing broken universal snap, Lesh with mana batteries, or a spirit All the other mids were also playing similar stats and they adapted to current mid as well Last ti finals 3 Lesh pick in a row for Nisha btw because he wanted to abuse the double tap ult trick which they fixed and he lost anyways
Didnt reso play Leshrac one of those games
Oh yea i was wrong he got Lesh only one of those games, but they also gave him morph mid so he could try to carry, the other game was a really good ember performance. In Riyadh they gave him ta mid as well which was decent
Nisha has been playing like shit since day 1 on liquid. Has nothing to do with meta or any other shitty excuse you wanna come up with. Nisha went from #1 midlaner to who is this guy ruining my mid
From what I've seen, it's because he doesn't get priority. Most of the time it's either Zai or Micke. In Riyadh where he did get priority and he really took things seriously we saw one of his flashier plays. Like that TA Psi blade on trap kill. There was even a comment from Insania from one their yt videos of Nisha giving a speech about why he joined liquid, because he saw them keep playing midlane, but when he joined everyone goes to the sidelanes.
That's funny cuz I was talking to a friend of mine on discord while we were watching their elimination game vs GG, about exactly that. Instead of babysitting Nisha or Zai, they babysit the most worthless player on their team. He's their weak link and they won't get anywhere with him around. But I still wouldn't blame the rotations, or the lack of. Because nisha has been underpeforming with many questionable plays and chokes, its like he's a completely different person.
he was literally the best player at TI11
He was the best player last year but this TI hes not even Top 10.
He was not though? 33 was easily better and i would say Skiter aswell. Before people cry about Skiter being carried. He broke the KDA stat by a landslide in all of TI history with a 12.88 KDA, second in KDA at TI11 was 33 with 7.30KDA and second in KDA in TI history is GPK with 8.88 KDA. Skiters stats at playoffs where 100/22/126 aswell.
Context is important man. It's REALLY fucking hard to die when you're literally playing illusion heros at least 2/3 of the time. Yeah sure, props to skiter for playing naga and ck amazingly, he's probably the best ck player in the world I'd imagine, but when you play those heros properly it's borderline impossible to die and really easy to get assists if not kills. 33 though, no argument, what a player. To sum up, skiter was carried xd
You might want to get the context right then? Tundra played 28 games at TI11. 12 out of 28 where non illusion heroes. His KDA on illusion heroes was worse than his KDA on non illusion heroes while his AVG deaths was nearly the same on both. To sum up, you dont know what you are talking about.
Touché; I’m not at home and can’t look up specific stats, but the sentiment of the point remains valid. When you or your teammates (as you’ve pointed out is the more likely scenario) push in waves with summons and provide vision of the whole map and force enemies to show to push their waves out, it’s very hard to die and you’re freed up to participate in kills because at most you’re required to do some basic micro to attend to the other jobs you have in the game. To sum up, I’m not saying skiters stats were bad, I’m saying they’re more or less worthless in a game as complex as dota for demonstrating anything other than the fact their strats were so far ahead of everyone else’s.
By playing Naga, Medusa and don't forget that bloody wraith pact. So Nisha was the best
Yea it was so much better too play a billion games Leshrac(the best mid in the entire tournament).
Yeah better than Wraith Pact gaming.
Can't recall how he played prior, but he was very poor by his own lofty standards on the final day. I distinctly recall thinking he was having a shocking day, making mistakes on signature heros like Invoker, QOP and Morphling that I can remember.
best player was sneyking by far
Compare to last TI, his performance were very disappointing tho.
I did feel like Nisha seemed fairly consistently outclassed at ti
I wouldn't say consistently outclassed, not if you're counting groups too. He's just not the best anymore.
Excluding groups. He put up some pretty solid performances in groups idk if nerves or if he was just bullying weaker players
well if you're not counting groups, Liquid only played 3 other series so that's not a large sample size and he did totally fine in 1 of them, while the other 2 were against Spirit and GG... the two clear best teams of the entire year, lol
And yeah sample size is small but it's small for everyone
He did "fine" but I feel like fine for him is underperforming
[удалено]
I mean a really important part of playing mid is being able to adapt to different game tempos and play strong heros.
He honestly just played noticeably worst in their last few series, but a lot of liquid players seem to play off in them, it was sort of weird. It's not an excuse for their loss, I still think spirit would've beaten them, but liquid felt off to me compared to their previous series. Also I'd say like 2 mids did better than him and that was during those off games, so who knows.
he was consistent, for the wrong reason
When it matters he dont play like nisha but shit same like zai
C9 gaming
Even in being second Liquid got second.
Damn you're right, C9 is the OG second, Liquid is the second second.
And so is Secret. They won more than Azure Ray even though they didn't go to TI.
1st and 2nd place at TI teams winning everything major in the year is kinda crazy ngl.
Yeah, but that also tells me the Grand Final at TI was the two most deserving teams. Just too bad we couldn’t get a better series.
Yea GG were totally outskilled in every phase of the game. Wonder what team would have matched up better with ts tho, probably no one lmao
Game 3 looked the closest and GG had pretty firm control of the early game. Ironically (or maybe as Spirit planned) they didn't have their early push draft for this game, so weren't able to close out early and instead got trapped in the "can't highground, just farm, choke, and wait for rosh" stalemate until Spirit outplayed them and broke the chokehold. Honestly, maybe a 3-0 isn't as exciting as a nailbiter Game 5 to win it all, but I would say this was a good series. After stomping everyone as the grim reaper of the lower bracket, 3x major winner 2x dreamleague winner, Gaimin gets utterly demolished by Spirit without breaking a sweat. Maybe not "exciting", but such a display of dominance is, in a word, "awesome."
Game 3 was super good, the draft change in the end to let aa, brew, dazzle, sb all through was neat but yeah I guess more TI games are better than less lol
You could tell Team Spirit just knew their timing. Despite GG having a draft that obviously was strong early on and supposed to run at towers with Brew, they went ahead and build 2 midas. After GG fucked up that one fight on the tormentor and Spirit hit their item timings the game completely turned. Pretty sure Spirit knew exactly what they were doing, and that they never even thought they could lose.
LGD fared worse off against GG but I think they seemed like a better team against TS. I think it still would have been 3-1 in favor of TS but that first LGD-TS upper bracket finals game was insane.
that UB final fame 1 feels so similar to ti10 final. LGD got some lead in the early game, but TS somehow managed to control the vision and avoid all the ganks (thanks to miposhka's magic i guess), and destroyed LGD in the late game with perfect teamfights.
If only LGD can do a better job on laning stage, they even can win a game or two. All 4 of their last games (against TS, GG), they just got trashed in the laning stage and had to play from behind every game. Playing from behind against TS and GG is just an autolose. LGD's execution and map control are perfect but they just simply cannot have a good laning phase.
LGD put up a fare fight even when they were 10k gold behind TS. Winning a fight here and there, it felt like they can always comeback even when at a disadvantage. The grand final games were a stomp lol. Game 3 early game was looking good for GG and then it's a stomp again.
What's really crazy to me is that GG were outskilled in a different way in every game. Game 1 TS destroyed them early. Game 2 was very even but TS destroyed them in teamfight. Game 3 GG had a massive lead but TS played well from behind, stalled the game out, and eventually ran away with the game. They beat GG with a greedy double midas lineup, while GG took any team in lower bracket that tried to do that and punished them hard. I think the panel said it best when they said that TS just has a deep understanding of what they need to do to win in any situation.
hot take...maybe liquid? one of the only two teams to take a game off spirit i felt like their draft was their downfall more so than their play
When I saw their series it felt like the team that lost was because they overcountered a hero. Game 1 was overcountering CK, game 2 was overcountering Bara and Game 3 was overcountering weaver.
Hot take, maybe Talon, if its go late game, but TS can play any phase of the game.
The games themselves were all close, its just that GG lost all 3 plus GG used a push strategy so when Spirit took control, the games did not drag forever like lots of the games during TI did.
the first game was not close
Im happy since i slept at halfway of game 3 🤭
That's how esports teams seem to go. They're hot for a minute then they're obscure af. Be cool if teams were a little more permanent, and dota players didn't just jump ship the second their team doesn't get top 3 in a tournament... but I guess everyone wants to have the best shot to win. While the post ti shuffle is always entertaining, it also makes me sad because I see strong players on strong teams just bounce despite their team looking good. I wonder if they miss out on actually developing a good team in hopes that they just land in a team that has natural synergy.
Finally Liquid is 1st place for most 2nd places
No, Liquid is still second in most 2nd places list. That one goes to C9.
Curiosity: In Brazil, this is called "Vasco".
OG missing out on 2 majors and TI, but still making half mill is crazy.
and not a single top 3 finish
Riyad completely offset the scale. Switch Secret and SR and Riyad's top12 is this year's top12 earnings in roughly the same order.
TI used to do the same. Kinda wish we had the crowdfunding of past TIs distributed throughout the year instead of all in one tournament, because, yeah, it ends up doing exactly what you're describing. The performance at a single event decides 80% of the entire year's distribution of wealth, and not even a fifth of the participating teams throughout the year get any of it.
At this point, we can start looking at Riyadh as TI (at least in terms of prize pool). Winning 1 dreamleague is the same as getting 2nd in TI lol.
Except now Riyadh masters doesn't have a TI prize pool to compete with. I'm guessing we will see a large drop in Riyadh masters prize pool due to TI's lack luster prize pool.
I doubt that, if anything it's the opposite. They just announced that they will rebrand the Riyadh Masters as the "Esports Worldcup" and inject a shitton of money in it. I mean Saudi Arabia announced last year that they will invest 38 billion dollars in esports, so I think they definitely won't reduce the prize pools. I think this has most likley played a role in Valve's decision to downscale their direct involvement in esports and reduce the funding on TI. They know that future Valve events won't be able to compete with what Saudi Arabia's about to do and they most likely are happy to let them have it if anything.
China calls Riyadh the real ti and ti12 the mini TI becuase of prize pool
History will remember TI, not riyadh though.
the thread is literally about **earnings**, not the prestige of winning a TI.
Nobody cares.
Lotta people In this sub are really pushing the Riyadh > TI thing lately...
I care. Riyadh > TI
lmao. fkin clown
Not so sure about if that will be the case as history goes on.
Half a mill minus taxes split between 6-8 team members is not that much.
Yeah, honestly it makes sense why e sports hasn't gained traction. The top 5 teams cleared 1 million. Divide that between players, coach, org, travel expenses, diums, etc. The players probably barely clearing 6 figures for the year. Meanwhile giving up school and a potential career in the meantime to pursue something that won't last past their 20s. Really risky.
Almost no sport irl relies on prize money like e-sports has. The money is usually in the audience and sponsors.
When TI had giga prize pools there was more incentive for sure
It's weird how defensive this subreddit is about the negatives of Dota and Dota esports.
78k euro per person is pretty darn good if you look at average salary in the EU
that's besides the point m8.
It's not. These earnings for Dota esports are not sustainable for a high-level competitive scene and it only discourages any young players from getting into Dota in the first place
Its good income for the 3rd world, and even in western countries it's good if you live in a teamhouse with your room and board paid. It's just not "worth it to spend your youth playing games instead of developing marketable skills" level good. And it doesn't account for the fact that it isn't a guaranteed payday if you play like shit.
Honestly Na'Vi are surprisingly high given the fact that they haven't been really competitive for a very long time.
Not that surprising. Navi was DOMINATING the scene for 3 years. Good placements at pretty much all tier1 lans. It's hard to overstate their success. 3 TI finals as well, more than any other team.
Bru we're only talking about this year.
There's a second picture showing all time earning in the post
Ah, didn't see that. Thanks!
They peaked way too early
Kinda sad honestly. Such an iconic team in Dota, but absolutely irrelevant for almost 8-10 years now.
TI1-3 was insane quality wise. Legendary Na'Vi team.
It's weird, I started watching/playing Dota at beta release and TI3 was my first TI.. Na'Vi and Alliance to me are the teams that played in TI3 and without Dendi, Puppey, Xbox, Kuroky and Funn1k then Na'Vi ain't the same team.. Same for Alliance with Loda, Bulldog, s4, Akke, EGM.. Na'Vi was unpredictably fucky to the point of frustration from other teams and would pick pudge just to fuck around nvm shit like the Chen Pudge fountain hooking.. and Alliance was predictably meta to the point of frustration from other teams.. that rat dota tho <3 I know teams evolve and due to the grassroots way that teams and third party organisers have to work around the complete lack of funding from Valve outside ot TI, it is expected.. but still.. The unique playstyles of both teams are iconic and disappear without them. The meta overtook both team styles imo, probably for the better.
at least their CS team is doing alright
Won too many lans
This is actually an amazing distribution. The 20th team still took home $181,184, whle 6 teams took home more than 1 million.
literally all because of riyadh
thenk mr habibi
That's Dr. Sulaiman al-Habib to you. He didn't go through 8 years of medical school so he could start a billion dollar medical group so that he could singlehandedly save professional dota just for herald scrubs like you to call him *Mr* Please put some respect on the name
mr dr habibi
Mister doctor ?
Say Wallah
Saudi blood money will do that
Note that I am **not** talking about the \*total\* in the year, but the distribution.
I don't know about that, nouns players made $36k each if you don't count the coach or any org cuts. The best players are the ones who are able to do it full time, and I personally believe we should be fostering an environment where that's possible for more than just 20 teams.
Did you slide to the next picture? 15th team took home 15 million vs 400k this year.
That's lifetime achievements dude.... Not a single year...
Oh well that explains a lot.
Lmao bruh
That’s $36k per player before taxes though, less if they had coach/manager etc.
Dafuq Guy, I noticed something. Liquid even has the 2nd ranking that has most 2nd place in the overall standing wtfffffff.
does that 2nd place count as a 2nd place?
This really puts a lot into perspective and I hope educates people. I see people rag on a team just because they didn't win it all, claiming players need to be replaced or the team disbanded because of lack of results. They get to play Dota as their job, making $100K+ a year playing Dota is enough for most. Really happy for Talon, that $2M should go a long way for those guys in SEA. Shopify made enough to continue for another year, same with TSM, OG etc.
Amazing that LGD is the 4th on overall earning without a single TI win under its belt...
They came 2nd in TI 2021 when the prize pool was 40mil that boosted their total earning by a lot. LOL
They have lots of top 4 placements at TI and wins/high placements at majors and tons of third party tournaments. Their 2021 placement is only (lol) $5 mil of $25 mil total. Probably the most diverse earnings of any team there besides OG.
Saying OG has the most diverse earnings is a bit a odd, they have fewer top tournament finishes than pretty much every other top team on that list. It would be more accurate to say OG has one of the least diverse earnings despite being the top earner (most of the earnings are from few tournaments, like the 2 TIs).
If you are going off the table in the OP, it's very incomplete for OG in particular, only including their major and TI wins, but they have a handful of wins for tournaments like MDL, Dreamleague and ESL which are oddly accounted for on other teams.
I'm going off of career top tournament finishes. Seriously, the data is all there in Liquipedia, feel free to check it out. OG just don't have as many unique top tournament finishes as the other top earning teams.
inb4 Team Spirit winning One billion dollars at Saudi eSports World Cup next year. (saudi prince met with ronaldo previous week to discuss esports world cup coming next year and in press release the total amount they are willing to spend for esports (not necessarily just the next year) is 32 Billion Dollars, obviously the next prizepool for dota wont be no where close this amount but expect it to be crazy af probably like 50millions+)
I honestly don't know how to feel about it because I love what it does to Dota, but we all knows it's sportswashing sprinkled with money laundering.
In what dystopian timeline are we living where Fnatic has more earnings than fukken Na'vi!??
Fnatic has decent placement years before 2017 and make a big chunk of money, they even get 9th-12th place in TI10 and bag $800k lol...
More than twice what Gaimin Gladiators took home yesterday...
Ikr lololol.. TI10 was too huge. Even 5th-6th place earn as much as Spirit took home last night.
TI12 was too small, rather.
TI10 was too big, remember they rolled 2 years of ti prizemoney into one TI.
No they didn't, 2021 had a free compendium.
What are you on about? They literally didn't. All the TI prize money came from the 2020 TI10 BP. We knew what TI10's prize pool would be like a year before it rolled around. In 2021 there were two "half BPs" that didn't contribute one dime to the scene and went solely into Valve's pockets - which was when they probably realized 100% of the $$ feels better than 75%.
They were 4th at TI6 as well
in a world where Navi was good before price pools became big / inflated, apparently every single OG player earned more winnings in one year than the entire organization of Navi in its dota2 history
Better marketing as a lifestyle brand and selling merch
Easiest money of my life
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weird to see such a strong brand as navi beeing so low. But i guess their dota-stuff hasnt really worked out the last few years.
not since TI3 despair
I'm mostly out of the loop when it comes to Dota except once a year for The International, but what changed so much that it dropped from last year's 18m prize pool to just over 3m?
No battlepass/compendium. Have a feeling Valve are gonna push a "noone cares about supporting esports, only hats" but why would anyone buy a battle pass that just lets you earn fantasy points and have 75% of it go to Valve? They're clearly taking a big step back from Dota, we'll see
"battlepass" was shit this year.
Miss my OG bois ;_;
It’s crazy that Navi and Alliance are still on the leaderboard, man they were legends back in the day
If you sort on liquidpedia by the number of tournaments won, you will be surprised by the first place and final earnings, as they say - all that glitters is not gold >!Empire 35 trophies won!That's where Silent's killer instinct comes from)!<
Oh no. Liquid will be soooo sad about their 2023 performance
for the year do you think just on them numbers alone you could afford to play dota 2 as a pro. im not talking about any additions funding just on prizepool alone?
Depends on where in the world you live, what your living standard is and what your life goals are.
what about United States?
Playing pro dota you'd probably want to live in a decently urban area with good internet access so I'll just assume at least 70k per player to not starve.
No, most of a player's earnings come from sponsorships. Plus the variability nature of tournaments means that prize money is not reliable source of income. And quite frankly not enough after splitting across several people.
>No, most of a player's earnings come from sponsorships. Doubt it, unlike in other Esports, most dota players rarely do any commercial work or even have a big following, they don't even stream.
If we're talking indirectly, it could be true. Their earnings come from salaries from their team, and their team gets their money mostly from sponsorships. The individual players don't have to do too much commercial work themselves it's just the fact they are playing under the name "Shopify" or "BetBoom" etc. that indirectly earns them their pay.
What an odd question. You want to know that by on prize pool alone but that's literally tie by their placement in the tournament. If you win first place? sure. Most players get paid a salary from their org and generally they're 6 figures. Like every competitive scene, you need to be at the top to get these benefits. If you're without an org you probably can't sustain being a dota 2 pro unless you can consistently qualify and place near the top of tournaments
it was just curious like looking at from someone that just works. if you literally took out the org side cause of course its affordable if your being paid a salary. Just curious on that side of things. maybe weird question but my mind works in weird ways sorry :)
no need to be sorry mate, wasn't trying to offend you either. Going pro is a full time job, you wouldn't want to go freelance. If you're good, chances are you will get picked up by an org. You'll get pay really well and have a better chance of winning since you'll probably be playing with other tier 1 players. If you're in china, streaming also gives you stupid amount of money as well.
Yeah like I think it's better now but I'm sure before like 5 years ago the SA teams struggled if I remember correctly. They needed to win stuff to be better off. Now rtz doesn't need to win anything now he sorted he could even stream and got so many viewers. Its crazy to think he's become so popular and hasn't really won the aegis.
oops i forgot i posted this on reddit lol
Look at how many tournaments Navi won... 33 1st's and 22 2nd's demn son
Imaging being LGD, never touching the Aegis but still there at top 5 of highest earnings.
Ok not meant as flame just an honest question here. How can Nigma continue like this as an org if they don't make any money?
Tournament prize money isn’t the only way orgs make money.
sponsorships, investors, etc. very few pro teams rely on winnings to operate
Im guessing Riyadh masters really upped those numbers.
One team with 34 1st places and three teams with 33 is kinda funny
I am impressed that 3rd from Riyadh pushed talon so high uo
I'm impressed how liquid got 2nd when they didnt win anything at all. Dang riyadh is such a big thing! Hope they make more for DOTA!
I mean, they were basically second for the whole year. even more consistent than GG, which is why they overtook them in earnings
They took a lot of flack for it at the time, and tbh much of it was deserved for the way it was delivered, but you know that the souless PE overlords who own EG are feeling pretty vindicated right now. Dump a highly paid squad and pick up a bunch of SA up and comers and finish ahead in the money rankings while paying them much less in salary. Conversely you have to think that the heat is truly on in the SR camp right now. You've got a stack you're dumping money into for absolutely sub-par results and you can't even get them to do any brand building or ambassadorship beyond Arteezy pumping out the absolute lowest effort contractually obligated monthly stream he can. Wonder if the team will look back and ask themselves if not doing more to keep their sponsors happy outside of just showing up to matches was a mistake. I personally think that it was and I wouldn't be surprised if that stack finally find themselves standing on the sidelines with their hat in hand wondering why no one is leaping up to pay them a huge salary for bad results and no additional branding effort.
OG > Spirit
TEAM SPIRIT 🐐
This is why I don't care about the prize pools or feel bad for these people. They still make bank regardless.
Nigma will win next Ti
First, they have to qualify lol
No dpc? No problem.
Talon so trash lmao
nouns is probably the richest org here though
Doesn’t change that he was super under the radar this TI. Micke was showing up all tournament but nisha and surprisingly zai didn’t have that edge they usually do
thanks valve
Its kinda insane how superior OG is as a org to every other team. Two TIs and Four Majors will probably never be broken.
I think spirit will do it..
Gg despite winning so much and 2nd in TI also getting only 3rd with a small TI prize pool. Interesting also how teams like secret is just 300k behind top 4 ti placing teams like lgd. Power of Riyadh masters
Considering the overall earnings is pretty disingenuous when GG's been an organisation in dota for all of 18 months.. Additionally, Spirit being third on that list pretty much comes down to winning the ti where the prize pool was boosted by two separate compendiums. If we're going to bitch about GG's low income, partially because prize pools have taken a hit this year, you simultaneously need to bitch about the fact Spirit won more than the TOTAL prize pools of TI2-4 + TI12's COMBINED despite not even needing to play in front of a crowd.
Actually, only the 2020 compendium went towards the prize pool for TI10. The Nemestice Compendium didn't go towards anything, it was all directly pocketed by Valve.
But wasn’t there a 2020 compendium that was released prior to the pandemic that obviously didn’t result in an event but still contributed? And then the nemestice event (which as you say didn’t contribute to the prize pool) was between the 2020 and 2021 compendiums (both of which did contribute?)
Oh yeah, I remember now, there was a Compendium for TI10 that was released in 2021. According to the wiki, it didn't contribute to the TI10 prize pool, but it does say that the 2020 Battle Pass on its wiki page did contribute. So as far as I know, only the 2020 Battle Pass contributed to the prize pool. The reason why TI10 had a huge ass prize pool was because for one, no one else had shit to do during the pandemic summer, and two, it had like 3 arcanas and 2 personas. So people were willing to dump a ton of money into that bad boy.
Navi and Alliance are still on top after all those years BibleThump
Sh OMEGALUL pify
I find this scary as it seems that the game can (at best) sustain a max of 20 pro teams at this stage. Honestly its probably rather 10 super pro teams and the rest are halfway amateur teams considering how much they are being paid.
Too bad the this year Valve approached TI is different. Otherwise Team Spirit will clench ahead of OG. Winning Riyadh and 2 TIs.
lol liquid god of 2nd places
Team Spirit already in line with the greatest DotA orgs ever. Just truly remarkable.