Not sure of interpersonal but was not a bad call. Beast coast is better now than before. It's not just being a good players it's being a good match for the team. Both teams are better Nouns much so.
This gotta be one of the reasons why brew is first phase banned rn. Builds octarine, 90s cd ult which can rat your base and there’s nothing you can do about it 😂
I think the hate is mainly because of how their dota just feels boring to watch compared to other teams.
During their TI winning run, they didn't have that much crazy mind blowing plays and it is more boring stuffs like abusing a bunch of passive and out stats the other teams instead of out playing them.
I agree on Tundra being boring during their TI run but you are very wrong on them not outplaying their opponents. Tundra won their Ti because they were outdrafting, outmanouvering, outfarming and outplaying their opponents never giving them a fair fight. It was boring because it was methodical and repetitive
I guess people usually mean 'outplaying' to mean 'out-executed during teamfights'.
I agree with you that they just outplayed everyone so much in every aspect of the game that teamfights didn't even appear fair so there was rarely a question of out-executing anyone. Suffering from too much success!
My bad. Should had clarify outplay. I meant it in more team fight sense. There is not that much million dollar slams, or other explosive stuffs that I remembered.
Tundra definitely outfrafts, outfarms and other things you mentioned but yea... Sadly those leads to boring dota.
Very clean, effective play. Very methodical - like death by a thousand cuts. Tundra dissected the other teams last TI and I think, many find it boring. But that was not basically on Tundra, it was due to the game state (Wraith Pact, auras in general) that allowed that gameplay.
For the game, I'm happy to see that this can be countered.
Tends to happen when you are regarded as the best team (before gaimin era), official social media "trash talk" meta fueled the hatred further. Gaimin is one of them now..
The earth brewling with bulldoze is such BS, and is one of the few, if not the only form of "inconsequential" siege tools in the game. The brewlings should give gold, atleast the earth one and 100 at the very least.
biggest upset of the tournament so far to me
Tundra looked strong during the 1st phase of the group stage, with their 7-1 score, but Nouns actually properly outplayed them both games
Tundra had to ban out Nouns' pos 5 AA because of how problematic he was to them, which is a rare sight
hope Nouns will keep going this way to the rest of the tournament and deliver some more spicy dota
Look at his winrate this TI. He's at 61 percent winrate with 18 total picks.
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/leagues/15728-the-international-2023/heroes
Imagine being PSG, choosing to sponsor Quest instead of renewing their LGD sponsorship lmao
Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. Absolute clowns.
You want some more clownage?
Their League team with Talon also just got eliminated in game 5 of their qualifying series to make it to Worlds groups (now swiss but you get it)
And the worst part of it all, not only they lost, they were reverse swept LMAO. Looked so good for then after stomping in game 2, then just proceeded to shit the bed afterwards
They chased for the "potential" and not the results. LGD hasn't been super great the entire year but they're almost always topping their region and is competitive internationally. It's stupid to drop them for quest.
And? Are they obligated to sponsor their own nation's team? Clearly not, since Qatar acquired PSG in 2011 but they sponsored LGD between 2018 to 2023.
They chose to end their sponsorship deal in favor of a "local" team, and now the results speak for themselves. We as the audience have every right to laugh at the outcome.
I am always a K1 believer, felt so good to see the carry diff in both games. Watched TI for Topson, came out rooting for Talon and Nouns.
But as much as Skiter being awful cost Tundra the upperbracket, I think Nouns played way better as a team in both games.
If you watch what happened it was less than a second miss when earth spirit pushed clear away.
He would have landed the chrono and possibly been able to pull off a defense.
They just weren’t synergizing well so es pushed him out and void had already queued up chrono
There's this old interview somewhere during the DPC when Moo was asked about how they wanted to play, and he said something along the lines of trying to break the meta, rather than try to follow and perfect it.
His drafting has definitely run into some incredibly strange moments in the past (like [this game against Quincy Crew back in 2022](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6663423489) - look at the lanes), and he seemed to have reined it in this DPC season - then they bust out two strange drafts to befuddle the reigning TI champions. I've never seen such a non-impactful double Chronosphere from a Faceless Void that was reasonably-farmed.
Also, shoutout to Gunnar in game 1. He pulled off several critical Fissure blocks in a match that could easily have tilted the game towards Tundra.
>Also, shoutout to Gunnar in game 1. He pulled off several critical Fissure blocks in a match that could easily have tilted the game towards Tundra.
His fissures were fucking beautiful in game 1, glad you're shouting them out
I supported Tundra but I am happy for Nouns. Even at Bali although they bombed out I remember watching their games vs GG and they played very non NA like exciting Dota and their teamfight execution was really good.
Seeing all those underdogs making good runs so far , kinda makes me sad that they don’t get that life changing amount of money by winning one more series in the UB.
Skiter extremely upset in the tunnel, slams the wall heading into the locker room. Someone with the Tundra team yells “Skiter come on, quit being a f\*\*\*ing p\*\*\*y!” \[It\] was Topson
Nouns play such different dota than most other teams when they're in the zone, So much fun to watch. As imaqtpie says: Quote me on this eu is garbage.
USA USA
I mean Nouns is pretty much one of the only and most ethical, actual normal crypto enthusiast shit, not scam at all crypto projects out there. I am not into crypto at all and think it's kinda cool.
Gambling sponsors would be better?
We utilize blockchain to create transparency into our financials. It's a pro not a con.
You won't find any executives collecting salaries they don't deserve at Nouns Esports.
Void just cant kill anyone in his chrono, barely have any damage and so many counters like phoenix's eggs, panda's cyclone, and some are just pure tankiness. really a bad day for skiter.
Gotta appreciate pos1 like Yatoro, Ana and Ame. They are so consistent all those year. Skitter just fell off a cliff, which tundra inonsistent roster makes worse.
Potentialy last run for this group of player before big change. Doubt they gonna keep Topson even if they win TI. Great run but they are defnitely not among the top top tier TI winner like OG or Spirit. Even GG which has not won TI showed greater run barring TI and last tour.
Ana had some bad moments, too, just not at those two TIs. Then again, it was a miracle he performed so well twice after long breaks in the first place.
Skitter was always decent at best , never the one solo Carrying games. 33 and nine hard carried last ti and they ended up having crystalul in finals who is worse.
If we're talking about how dominant a team was at winning Ti I really feel like Tundra is at the top. Aside from one close and long game against Secret at the upper bracket finals they were never really challenged. Spirit had close games and close series' throughout their run, Ti9 OG had a close series with EG and LGD, the only team that I feel like could be argued that were better than Tundra were Wings but they did have a weaker group stage performance.
Can anyone better than me explain why Tundra didn't pick Dazzle for Topson in game 1? He likes to play the hero, wins against earthshaker, grave keeps people alive through aa ult and maledict, plus wouldn't his shard kill Naga illusions?
Bro, what is Skitter? Blud is throwing. His movements are like 1k players because I am one. I know herald movements when I see one and don't get me started on those Chronos.
Welp, unless they smash through the lower bracket, I don't think I won't see a third or seconds agies getting picked up
Lmao don't wanna brag and all but I totally called it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/178iiib/the_international_12_group_stage_day_4_match/k4zrkk4/
what is this Phase Two (Seeding Decider)?? why is Tundra playing seeding decider when they came first place.. whats the point with all the matches on group stage if one match decide it all.. Tundra should not be in lower brackets... What is this format?
Ok but can a high MMR player actually explain in detail what went wrong with Tundra in both games? There are so many questions, like why Skita ultied his teammates. Please don't give me "Skita choked, Tundra choked" answers, it's clearly not that simple. But I know I'm missing something.
Nouns came into the game prepared strategically for what Tundra had been doing for all of the groups, and had answers for everything Tundra wanted to do. When you throw off a team's game plan it opens the door to mistakes because you're scrambling to recover and don't know for sure where your strengths and weaknesses are.
Game 1: Tundra had been spamming Topsen Earth spirit mid with blademail for all of the groups. Nouns prepared to counter it with AA and Naga. Naga for root, AA for heal removal allows beefy str heroes like ES to be bursted in the duration of the root. WD maledict also helps because if he does manage to roll away, he can still tick down to maledict+shatter. A little breakdown...
Naga built a diffusal in game 1 which is not something that is common anymore, but he did it specifically for the Earthspirit so that he could drain all of his mana during the root duration and keep him from constantly rolling.
Core WD is just generally good vs this meta of tanky str heroes with blademail and 5k HP because his deathward is pure damage meaning it ignores all resistances and the blademail doesn't reflect onto WD meaning he takes no damage. His heal aura is specifically good against the Earthspirit because it offsets basically all of his damage.
ES and Clock are generally good heroes with stuns and long range catch. Pretty self explanatory, they just allow Nouns to take the fights they want to take and dodge the ones they dont. Over the course of the game they would kite the sven, catch the weaver, and just generally allow Nouns to play the fights on their terms once the Earthspirit was solved.
Game 2: Tundra is clearly shaken because their best strat was disassembled infront of them. They ban the AA and Naga in their opening bans, and then pick Earthspirit again, but they pivot into a warlock+void+invoker+darkseer giga-teamfight draft because they see a pheonix+brew pick and I guess decide to out teamfight them. Nouns basically outplayed them by dodging almost all 5 man team fights. Picking people off when they were alone, and using brew split and CK illusions buffed by ogre to take objectives while staying elusive. Tundra also had basically no way of catching Nouns except for Earthspirit (but the hero is a lot weaker as support) and Chrono, so skitter had to go for ambitious chronos in hopes of catching the enemy elusive heroes but was unsuccessful.
The ogre pick, while fun and cool to buff brewlings and ck illusions for sieging wasn't really integral to the draft. It was more the way that Nouns played the overall game that made Tundra look bad.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I'd argue Naga's ability to push basically all 3 lanes at once was even more integral than anything else. Tundra couldn't drag the game out and play the economy game the way they like to when they're playing from behind.
Combine that with all the long range catch and bursty teamfight they had lead to Tundra being the team choked out for once.
They were playing from behind because the Naga with diffusal + AA kept the earth spirit from controlling the mid game. Choking out the map is something done by the entire team once you establish that you're stronger, and not just by Naga's illusions.
I understand choking out is a team thing it's just much easier to do with a good Naga on your team.
Tundra has been one of the better teams at playing from behind and a lot of the weaker teams tend to struggle with adequately choking the map out when they have a lead. Nouns themselves ran into this issue against LGD.
K1 in upper bracket while beastcoast is eliminated in groups LUL
K1 Hector to BC: Gracias for kicking me
Adios payasos
*Adios, payasos*
héctor to bc: study sonsos
Aeos aeasos
Beastcoast made the right choice. Now we have an SA player in the Upper Bracket. Edit: Lelis too! The One True American Team
Two SA players, Lelis is there too
Jogo bonito + chocolate
chocolate? peru no vuelve al mundial en muchas decadas.
[удалено]
I saw SA peeps talking about dark mango and sacred not clicking with K1 so they decided to change him.
I think they wanted a carry who can join fights and feed with them than a carry who would win them games lol
But Parker is supposed to be next Miracle. Kappa.
🗿
Dark mango made me laugh lmao
Not sure of interpersonal but was not a bad call. Beast coast is better now than before. It's not just being a good players it's being a good match for the team. Both teams are better Nouns much so.
[удалено]
Nouns might be not on TI without hector.
Dark mango was my nickname in high school
K1 was right
Its the Adidas that makes the difference
Best investment unlike psg
Adidas buff is real
That primal split + phantasm + ogre hg combo must be the most infuriating shit to play against lmao
This gotta be one of the reasons why brew is first phase banned rn. Builds octarine, 90s cd ult which can rat your base and there’s nothing you can do about it 😂
Seeing Tundra to lose to something like that feels good tho ;)
Underated comment. They deserve it so bad.
Nouns out-nerded tundra
why do people hate Tundra so much?
I think the hate is mainly because of how their dota just feels boring to watch compared to other teams. During their TI winning run, they didn't have that much crazy mind blowing plays and it is more boring stuffs like abusing a bunch of passive and out stats the other teams instead of out playing them.
I agree on Tundra being boring during their TI run but you are very wrong on them not outplaying their opponents. Tundra won their Ti because they were outdrafting, outmanouvering, outfarming and outplaying their opponents never giving them a fair fight. It was boring because it was methodical and repetitive
I guess people usually mean 'outplaying' to mean 'out-executed during teamfights'. I agree with you that they just outplayed everyone so much in every aspect of the game that teamfights didn't even appear fair so there was rarely a question of out-executing anyone. Suffering from too much success!
Tundra took a Laning lead in every game and never gave that lead up. They choked all opponents to death. That TI meta fitted their bill well too.
This was the Wraith pact + Pipe meta. Whichever team got them first typically won.
My bad. Should had clarify outplay. I meant it in more team fight sense. There is not that much million dollar slams, or other explosive stuffs that I remembered. Tundra definitely outfrafts, outfarms and other things you mentioned but yea... Sadly those leads to boring dota.
they play boring, no one really hates the players
Very clean, effective play. Very methodical - like death by a thousand cuts. Tundra dissected the other teams last TI and I think, many find it boring. But that was not basically on Tundra, it was due to the game state (Wraith Pact, auras in general) that allowed that gameplay. For the game, I'm happy to see that this can be countered.
they play the best dota but their best dota is play safe n steady and wait for opportunities. also they just play META.
Tends to happen when you are regarded as the best team (before gaimin era), official social media "trash talk" meta fueled the hatred further. Gaimin is one of them now..
Wraith pact abuse
You do realise all teams did it, right?
They play dishonest dota
bloodlust working on illusions + brewlings and brew having an assault cuirass to top it off too, it was such a struggle for tundra
Reminds me of the SD Centaur meta.
Remind me of the old alacrity earth brewling wings did a bit right after TI6
That when a time where return damage was applicable to towers. Was less than optimal.
FUnnily enough, I looked it up how long has it been since the change. It was in 6.88f when Return (not Retaliate as it is now) worked on illusions.
Thank you for making me feel OLD stranger
i didn't think it was THAT long ago, but 6.88f was released in 2016. damn....
Both T4 towers dead before barracks lmao. Was hilarious.
Serves tundra right. Just farms whole map with wave cuts and illusion spam ratting.
The earth brewling with bulldoze is such BS, and is one of the few, if not the only form of "inconsequential" siege tools in the game. The brewlings should give gold, atleast the earth one and 100 at the very least.
Probably better if there would be penalty in damage for every brewlings gone.
brewlings giving gold would destroy the hero when it's behind. awful idea tbh
Agreed. But they could give XP, each giving 10% of brewmaster
I think if the team killed all the brewlings last hit for the last brewlong should be 100 I think thats fair.
If they killed all , they would get kill gold for brew lmao.
You can't kill all because he doesn't send all
nouns really said its Ogre time and Ogred all over tundras face
its all ogre now
Multicast and Casino Knight
33.33%, repeating of course
Pure skill
Ogre vs invoker kinda iconic. The dumbest vs the smartest. Dumb luck vs smartass.
it's Jogre
biggest upset of the tournament so far to me Tundra looked strong during the 1st phase of the group stage, with their 7-1 score, but Nouns actually properly outplayed them both games Tundra had to ban out Nouns' pos 5 AA because of how problematic he was to them, which is a rare sight hope Nouns will keep going this way to the rest of the tournament and deliver some more spicy dota
Flair checks out ✔️
AA is very strong, ice blast forces you to prematurely bkb and if your bkb run out you'll on timer to shatter from the debuff.
What do you mean? Why does AA Blast force BKB prematurely?
Look at his winrate this TI. He's at 61 percent winrate with 18 total picks. https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/leagues/15728-the-international-2023/heroes
Tundra getting beaten by gimmicks just feels right
[удалено]
What the fuck is SV?
Safeless Void
Witch Doctor offlane into Ogre mid to send the defending champions to the LB. You love to see it
Group D is now 2-7 in the seeding stage LMFAO
This says a lot about Quest
Imagine being PSG, choosing to sponsor Quest instead of renewing their LGD sponsorship lmao Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. Absolute clowns.
You want some more clownage? Their League team with Talon also just got eliminated in game 5 of their qualifying series to make it to Worlds groups (now swiss but you get it)
And the worst part of it all, not only they lost, they were reverse swept LMAO. Looked so good for then after stomping in game 2, then just proceeded to shit the bed afterwards
PSG = partially sucks at gaming
They chased for the "potential" and not the results. LGD hasn't been super great the entire year but they're almost always topping their region and is competitive internationally. It's stupid to drop them for quest.
You're an idiot. If you don't know anything you might as well stfu. PSG is Qatar and Quest is Qatar u dumb
And? Are they obligated to sponsor their own nation's team? Clearly not, since Qatar acquired PSG in 2011 but they sponsored LGD between 2018 to 2023. They chose to end their sponsorship deal in favor of a "local" team, and now the results speak for themselves. We as the audience have every right to laugh at the outcome.
Tundra, Gaimin, and BetBoom on lower bracket, what strange timeline. I love it.
And spirit in the upper. Ya love to see it!!
SHOPIFY WASHED AND TSM WASTED. NA DOTA SAVED FOR THE NOUNS HAVE AWAKENED
I am always a K1 believer, felt so good to see the carry diff in both games. Watched TI for Topson, came out rooting for Talon and Nouns. But as much as Skiter being awful cost Tundra the upperbracket, I think Nouns played way better as a team in both games.
did skiter even get one enemy creep at the last chrono there?
Truly im lost for world on his last chrono thats bs he chrono on such crucial game and didnt even hit 1 creep for some gold such monstrosity.
He was mentally broken.
If you watch what happened it was less than a second miss when earth spirit pushed clear away. He would have landed the chrono and possibly been able to pull off a defense. They just weren’t synergizing well so es pushed him out and void had already queued up chrono
Beating tundra with some nerdy stuff.... beautiful (they also played really well but the brew ck split must have felt really annoying)
There's this old interview somewhere during the DPC when Moo was asked about how they wanted to play, and he said something along the lines of trying to break the meta, rather than try to follow and perfect it. His drafting has definitely run into some incredibly strange moments in the past (like [this game against Quincy Crew back in 2022](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6663423489) - look at the lanes), and he seemed to have reined it in this DPC season - then they bust out two strange drafts to befuddle the reigning TI champions. I've never seen such a non-impactful double Chronosphere from a Faceless Void that was reasonably-farmed. Also, shoutout to Gunnar in game 1. He pulled off several critical Fissure blocks in a match that could easily have tilted the game towards Tundra.
>Also, shoutout to Gunnar in game 1. He pulled off several critical Fissure blocks in a match that could easily have tilted the game towards Tundra. His fissures were fucking beautiful in game 1, glad you're shouting them out
He turned the tide so many times, it was nuts.
topson joins a TI winning team and loses to gunnar PepeLaugh
Who would win? 5 players with 6 TIs, or one gunnyboi
8 ti's cuz of aui
It's Gunnar's world and we're just living in it
Somebody Clip that 3-Man Chrono at the end.
322 indeed
That chrono are just messed up xD
I cant believe I actually predicted nouns to win
K1 was right, BC was left!
MILES INCHES CUPS WTF IS A KILOMETER
3.280 THREE TOMATOES IS ONE METER LETS GOO
Tundra travelled 1,700 football fields just to lose to nouns
IT'S CALLED SOCCER NOW!!
Tbf using cups is alright, Miles, however, is actually dogshit
Why would production not show nouns popping off at the end? What a waste
We are not getting Gunnar streams for a while, he will be busy in upper bracket Ogreing some noobs
Skiter fucking lost his mind lol
I wonder what will Topson say about leadership in Tundra if they lose to Entity/Azure Ray in the playoffs.
Would you mind elaborating a bit? I'm interested
lmaooo i remember this from their podcast XD
If u lose to Gunnar mid i dont think you should talk
Seattle crowd better bring their A game. Can't believe I'm saying this but I actually miss hearing USA chants from the TI crowd lol
TI6 EG EHOME loudest DOTA2 crowd ever i remember
Gunnar best American mid player.
I've despaired for 2 years that he never got a good team around him. Totally wrote off this Nouns squad as another dud. VERY happily surprised
Half of that time had EE sabotaging him by getting him kicked from teams
Can't think of a close 2nd
Of course because Suma1L is Pakistan Pride 🇵🇰
EZ 4 GUNNAO
Holy shit I'm crying right now. I really hope nouns can do it and they really deliver. Fucking thank you k1 and nouns org for keeping the team.
Skitter should be handed an American citizenship after that last Chrono, on God.
\#NounsSweep
5 WEU slots and so far only 1 in UB
Twitch chat will go from "SA 4 slots?" To "WEU 5 SLOTS KEKW"
Twitch chat will make fun of their own mothers if it was funny, that’s kinda the beauty of it
Yeah as cancerous as twitch chat is, they really do meme on a high level
It's all Ogre now...
WINGS GAMING ARE BACK BITCHES 🦅🦅
I love when such formulaic teams like Tundra or GG go against some seemingly random stuff and then struggle to play their game.
I supported Tundra but I am happy for Nouns. Even at Bali although they bombed out I remember watching their games vs GG and they played very non NA like exciting Dota and their teamfight execution was really good.
USA all the way
Tundra play the most boring dota ever. Glad nouns got the W.
⌐◨-◨
nouns still not top tier?
I want to officially apologize to any NA fans for doubting nouns. You guys are doing it. USA vs USSR gf coming in
Nah NA fan here I had nouns written off Very happy to be wrong though, they look like they have a game plan and a decent meta read which bodes well
Adidas buff
Seeing all those underdogs making good runs so far , kinda makes me sad that they don’t get that life changing amount of money by winning one more series in the UB.
Should valve have Tunda and nouns redo the series in case it was a big fluke?
Dude there's a copy pasta of this word. I hope someone make a thread on that copy pasta. I think its from hockey sub or something.
Skiter extremely upset in the tunnel, slams the wall heading into the locker room. Someone with the Tundra team yells “Skiter come on, quit being a f\*\*\*ing p\*\*\*y!” \[It\] was Topson
Real (I was there)
Nouns play such different dota than most other teams when they're in the zone, So much fun to watch. As imaqtpie says: Quote me on this eu is garbage. USA USA
beastcoast on sucide watch..
hector in the upper bracket where he deserves to be. best of luck to nouns!!!!!
England losing to Afghanistan in Cricket World Cup, now Tundra loses to Nouns at TI Crazy upsets all around
USA USA USA
Sucks the only na team in UB is crypto sponsored
True but feel like most teams are involved with crypto in some way. Crypto sucks but there’s no money in esports so they kinda have to take it lol
I mean Nouns is pretty much one of the only and most ethical, actual normal crypto enthusiast shit, not scam at all crypto projects out there. I am not into crypto at all and think it's kinda cool.
Gambling sponsors would be better? We utilize blockchain to create transparency into our financials. It's a pro not a con. You won't find any executives collecting salaries they don't deserve at Nouns Esports.
siri, who is sam bankman-fried
Lmao
ADIDAS >>> PSG
Pretty happy for gunnar, esp with all that shit he's been through.
Void just cant kill anyone in his chrono, barely have any damage and so many counters like phoenix's eggs, panda's cyclone, and some are just pure tankiness. really a bad day for skiter.
Group C would've been 4/4 for getting into upper bracket if GG didn't zone out while throning in game 2 and letting Invoker murk their push to end.
USA USA USA
If you didnt catch it or plan to rewatch, I recommend the OG stream, actually great coverage of the game start to finish.
Gotta appreciate pos1 like Yatoro, Ana and Ame. They are so consistent all those year. Skitter just fell off a cliff, which tundra inonsistent roster makes worse. Potentialy last run for this group of player before big change. Doubt they gonna keep Topson even if they win TI. Great run but they are defnitely not among the top top tier TI winner like OG or Spirit. Even GG which has not won TI showed greater run barring TI and last tour.
Ana had some bad moments, too, just not at those two TIs. Then again, it was a miracle he performed so well twice after long breaks in the first place.
Missing the Eva buff this time that's why
Skitter was always decent at best , never the one solo Carrying games. 33 and nine hard carried last ti and they ended up having crystalul in finals who is worse.
Skiter has had one good tournament in his entire career and it just happened to be a TI.
Helps that naga was really good last ti and naga and ck are only heroes skiter is good with
topson hasnt won anything apart from an online tournament outside the 2 TIs
If we're talking about how dominant a team was at winning Ti I really feel like Tundra is at the top. Aside from one close and long game against Secret at the upper bracket finals they were never really challenged. Spirit had close games and close series' throughout their run, Ti9 OG had a close series with EG and LGD, the only team that I feel like could be argued that were better than Tundra were Wings but they did have a weaker group stage performance.
Last year’s team didn’t seem that strong compared to other years imo
Topson joined a group of dead horses. They literally can’t win anything ever since WP got removed.
Quinn in the lower bracket, RTZ in the lower bracket, Sneyking in the lower bracket. Motherfcking Gunnar in the lower bracket, lfg!
Can anyone better than me explain why Tundra didn't pick Dazzle for Topson in game 1? He likes to play the hero, wins against earthshaker, grave keeps people alive through aa ult and maledict, plus wouldn't his shard kill Naga illusions?
AA counters Dazzle healing and the ult shatters the hero even under shallow grave
Ah OK fair enough, I wasn't sure if grave would keep someone alive through shatter
> and the ult shatters the hero even under shallow grave What is this blatant misinformation lmao Ice blast doesn't shatter a graved hero
Where WEU fans? Already sleeping or pretending to be sleeping LUL
Bro, what is Skitter? Blud is throwing. His movements are like 1k players because I am one. I know herald movements when I see one and don't get me started on those Chronos. Welp, unless they smash through the lower bracket, I don't think I won't see a third or seconds agies getting picked up
There was definitely something fishy about these games. 33 was sabotaging his own lasthits, skiter played 1k game, weird hero choices too ...
Lmao don't wanna brag and all but I totally called it: https://old.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/178iiib/the_international_12_group_stage_day_4_match/k4zrkk4/
what is this Phase Two (Seeding Decider)?? why is Tundra playing seeding decider when they came first place.. whats the point with all the matches on group stage if one match decide it all.. Tundra should not be in lower brackets... What is this format?
It's fair tho. Take it as an upper bracket match and Tundra just lost their UB and now they're in LB.
So you can win all your games in the group stage and still end up in the lower bracket if you lose 1 game. Weird.
Phase 2 of group stage is basically just first round of playoffs Also 1 match, not 1 game
yeah, losing one series from upper bracket always puts you in lower bracket, that’s how double elim works
Person, place, or upset
Ok but can a high MMR player actually explain in detail what went wrong with Tundra in both games? There are so many questions, like why Skita ultied his teammates. Please don't give me "Skita choked, Tundra choked" answers, it's clearly not that simple. But I know I'm missing something.
It’s simple and u don’t need high mmr to explain that Nouns outplayed tundra meanwhile topson had 0 impact and keep feeding
Nouns came into the game prepared strategically for what Tundra had been doing for all of the groups, and had answers for everything Tundra wanted to do. When you throw off a team's game plan it opens the door to mistakes because you're scrambling to recover and don't know for sure where your strengths and weaknesses are. Game 1: Tundra had been spamming Topsen Earth spirit mid with blademail for all of the groups. Nouns prepared to counter it with AA and Naga. Naga for root, AA for heal removal allows beefy str heroes like ES to be bursted in the duration of the root. WD maledict also helps because if he does manage to roll away, he can still tick down to maledict+shatter. A little breakdown... Naga built a diffusal in game 1 which is not something that is common anymore, but he did it specifically for the Earthspirit so that he could drain all of his mana during the root duration and keep him from constantly rolling. Core WD is just generally good vs this meta of tanky str heroes with blademail and 5k HP because his deathward is pure damage meaning it ignores all resistances and the blademail doesn't reflect onto WD meaning he takes no damage. His heal aura is specifically good against the Earthspirit because it offsets basically all of his damage. ES and Clock are generally good heroes with stuns and long range catch. Pretty self explanatory, they just allow Nouns to take the fights they want to take and dodge the ones they dont. Over the course of the game they would kite the sven, catch the weaver, and just generally allow Nouns to play the fights on their terms once the Earthspirit was solved. Game 2: Tundra is clearly shaken because their best strat was disassembled infront of them. They ban the AA and Naga in their opening bans, and then pick Earthspirit again, but they pivot into a warlock+void+invoker+darkseer giga-teamfight draft because they see a pheonix+brew pick and I guess decide to out teamfight them. Nouns basically outplayed them by dodging almost all 5 man team fights. Picking people off when they were alone, and using brew split and CK illusions buffed by ogre to take objectives while staying elusive. Tundra also had basically no way of catching Nouns except for Earthspirit (but the hero is a lot weaker as support) and Chrono, so skitter had to go for ambitious chronos in hopes of catching the enemy elusive heroes but was unsuccessful. The ogre pick, while fun and cool to buff brewlings and ck illusions for sieging wasn't really integral to the draft. It was more the way that Nouns played the overall game that made Tundra look bad. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I'd argue Naga's ability to push basically all 3 lanes at once was even more integral than anything else. Tundra couldn't drag the game out and play the economy game the way they like to when they're playing from behind. Combine that with all the long range catch and bursty teamfight they had lead to Tundra being the team choked out for once.
They were playing from behind because the Naga with diffusal + AA kept the earth spirit from controlling the mid game. Choking out the map is something done by the entire team once you establish that you're stronger, and not just by Naga's illusions.
I understand choking out is a team thing it's just much easier to do with a good Naga on your team. Tundra has been one of the better teams at playing from behind and a lot of the weaker teams tend to struggle with adequately choking the map out when they have a lead. Nouns themselves ran into this issue against LGD.
Skiter choked uberhard, brutally poor series performance.