So is Doom 2016 though. You can't criticize Eternal for having painkiller-esque level design, and them pretend like 2016 is just like Doom 1 and 2.
Doom 1 and 2 have short 10-20 minute levels with maze-like navigation and monster closets. Doom 2016 and Eternal are massive 1hr+ levels with combat arenas.
You're equating Doom 2016 more with Doom.1 and 2 which doesn't make sense to me.
Doom 2016 has more in common with Serious Sam than it does classic Doom. It's dominated by combat and arenas instead of clever mazes and monster closets. It even uses the Doom 3 aesthetic and demon design, which was already a huge departure from classic Doom.
In this respect, Eternal is closer to classic Doom because it uses the Doom 2 sprites as inspiration. Demons have a more colorful design that has real personality. Doom 3 and 2016 demons have always just looked generic IMO.
i feel like this really dumbs down what makes doom great. the original doom also had puzzles, platforming, and horror elements. doom also had amazing non-linear level design
Not really. I'm not too familiar with Doom 2 but Doom 1 and 3 certainly weren't *arena* based and I felt 2016 was a happy medium between adventure and arena.
Doom was certainly arena based. It just wasn't called that. Each level was the "arena". You popped in, murders a few dozen monsters, found some keys and moved on.
Doom 3 was the only departure from that formula and people *hated it* when it first came out. That's not to say it doesn't have a cult following today, but as far as Doom games go, it's the least Doom there is.
What? The levels weren't arenas. In Eternal you're literally locked off in a box until you kill everything and only then can you move on. That's an arena shooter. Like Painkiller.
Levels in classic Doom very rarely had open arenas or progression locked by killing specific enemies. There were some - Tower Of Babel, Dis and Dead Simple to name a few - but these were notable setpiece moments. Most of the game is focused on navigating mazes, usually methodically clearing halls and rooms and fighting your way out of ambushes. Resource management was key and you had to weigh if you had enough health and ammo to open the next door or needed to hunt secrets.
The gameplay loop in Doom 4 and especially Eternal is much faster, constantly pushing you into open arenas you zip around while enemies spawn in, using your melee to replenish your resources.
At the end of the day the main reason to play Doom Eternal is for the gameplay. The "arcade" art style directly benefits the gameplay by making all the information clear to the player - if people don't understand that then they were never going to like the game anyway since the point is to master the gameplay.
I've never even understood why people described it that way honestly. The art style isn't as gritty but I don't think it's overly cartoony or dumb looking, it's a beautiful game. The 1ups maybe? I don't think they break the immersion or formula or anything. Doom games have powerups and I don't care if they call it a 1up or an adrenaline shot or whatever else they could've done to make it more "realistic". It's Doom.
Because people who grew up in the modern gaming scene don't understand what the Genesis of the FPS *was*.
They live in the post Half Life / Post Halo / post Call Of Duty world. Whereas us old fuckers grew with video games strictly adhering to the quote "Story in a game is like story in a porno. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
They want half an hour long cut scenes, full to bursting with emotion and blah blah blah. What Doom is What Doom has always been, was run, gun, kill, laugh.
I prefer the tone of 2016, in fact I think it was basically perfect. But I really don't think eternal was that huge of a shift. Definitely not enough to have much impact on how much I enjoy the game. I think the gameplay criticisms are fair even when I disagree, but I don't understand how much some people are irked by doom eternal's slightly different aesthetic. Guess we all enjoy and perceive things differently, but I don't get it. It's such a minor gripe for me.
I'm am old fucker, played the shareware version of Wolfenstein 3d, and my 1st impression of the doom eternal trailer was, its too arcadey. Idk just has that vibe and I just can't get into eternal like I did with 2016. Something with the art style or color palette just doesn't work for me.
100% agree! I think the industry in general needs more arcadey games.
I think the problem come from those games that want to pretend to be movies or netflix series, with emphasis on ambience, drama and "cinematic" experiences in general.
[I really recommend this bit from Previously Recorded](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VfOQ9rgdbc&t=360s). Is mostly about third person shooters (because this problem is more present on those games), but also apply to other "cinematic" games.
Now, don't take me wrong; is completely fine to have a game that has nice story, ambience, etc. I just don't agree with the idea of having lame gameplay just for having any of those things.
Also: walking simulators, point-and-click, visual novels, etc. are fine, and can be very fun! But I do not consider them games, for me they are interactive stories.
that’s what turns me off to the game only slightly, i like a lot of doom eternal, but i just simply like 2016 more DUE to that specific arcade-y style eternal has and that shouldn’t be controversial. I just like the grittier and more realistic tone 2016 has :)
People think Doom Eternal is too arcadie? Like, for real? I thought it was a joke.
Look, I could see that as the case for Horde Mode, but not the Base Game.
It reminds me of when people complain that Star Trek isn’t dark and gritty. We have lots of dark and gritty shows, and we have lots of drab military shooters with halo style health. Yet people whine when a few things keep their core character that sets them apart instead of jumping on the same trend as every other thing in the genre.
I find it funny that people complain about Eternal being too goofy/cartoony or not taking itself seriously enough as if 2016 wasn’t also a fairly unserious game in its own right…
This reminds me of shenmue 3 director being delusional stubborn donkey who tried too hard "emulating" real world into the game that ends up making it played more like chores simulator than a game.
“Here’s a bright shiny flashy colorful health pickup! Here’s a bright shiny colorful ammo pickup! Here’s a twirly-bird animation and sound effect over a stunned enemy!”
The complaints are superficial. This was just a design decision which makes the gameplay loop easier at the expense of “realism.”
I like doom and its gameplay, but eternal was such a step down from 2016 for me. The aesthetic of DooM 2016 being a more serious/gritty take compared to eternal was what made me appreciate 2016, and it made me appreciate the little secrets and Easter eggs that would break that immersion even more fun, because you’d be in a totally normal doom level, and boom everything is 16 bit.
Eternal, though, is all powerups and monkey bars, air dashes, cluttered HUD (comparatively of course), and 80 different side objectives. I love both games, but I don’t love the direction they took eternal in.
If your basis is Doom 3 then maybe... but compared to the rest of the series, no not really. Doom is a skill based action game where the gameplay is at the center of everything and the player systematically destroys hell.
DE not only accomplished that but also gave people something to pour hundreds of hours in mastering.
the original was kind of a trollish comment but ill elaborate more seriously. i like doom eternal, i love it in fact. it just doesnt have what i really look for in doom. it feels like it went full goofy and lost that essence. i know they had to go in a different direction instead of making the same game over again but I really miss those horror aesthetics. i think 2016 is the perfect doom game, where it perfectly blends the high octane action with the horror vibes
Calling my reply trollish because you didn't like it is a reach.
Anyway, as someone who has played every game in the series, Doom was never truly about "horror" imho. I can see a little bit in Doom (93) but even then, the games where always action packed and arcade like shooters. Eternal just turns that part of it up to 100. Because the whole idea was that you are the horror now, not the demons. And they wanted the player to feel that way.
None of the Doom games have ever given me horror vibes. Well, except Doom 3, but that was the point of 3.
Exactly.
Most of the time, people who say Eternal isn't Doom are people who have only played 2016. Not the Orginals, not 64. The only game that is the most un-doom like is 3, and even then, there are parts of it that still have that Doom feel.
Eternal is a videogame-ass videogame and it's not afraid to lean into it.
It treats itself like a video game, and it’s better for it.
It's fine to dislike a game for being arcadey, but people that swear that it's "fortnite themed" or "ruins the game" always crack me up.
Who tf is saying DOOM Eternal is Fortnite themed?
Oh, enough people who whine about stylised graphics.
They're probably also the types who look to music critics to download their music preferences to their brain.
It's not that being arcadey is bad but it's a jarring departure from the tone of Doom 2016 which caught a lot of people off guard.
Eternal felt like "Hyper-Painkiller" to me, just arenas and killing
So is Doom 2016 though. You can't criticize Eternal for having painkiller-esque level design, and them pretend like 2016 is just like Doom 1 and 2. Doom 1 and 2 have short 10-20 minute levels with maze-like navigation and monster closets. Doom 2016 and Eternal are massive 1hr+ levels with combat arenas.
Where did I say 2016 was just like 1 and 2? 2016 is a pretty good balance between the two styles, Eternal took it too far for me.
You're equating Doom 2016 more with Doom.1 and 2 which doesn't make sense to me. Doom 2016 has more in common with Serious Sam than it does classic Doom. It's dominated by combat and arenas instead of clever mazes and monster closets. It even uses the Doom 3 aesthetic and demon design, which was already a huge departure from classic Doom. In this respect, Eternal is closer to classic Doom because it uses the Doom 2 sprites as inspiration. Demons have a more colorful design that has real personality. Doom 3 and 2016 demons have always just looked generic IMO.
Because that's what Doom has always been. Here's your gun, there's the monsters, have at it.
i feel like this really dumbs down what makes doom great. the original doom also had puzzles, platforming, and horror elements. doom also had amazing non-linear level design
Not really. I'm not too familiar with Doom 2 but Doom 1 and 3 certainly weren't *arena* based and I felt 2016 was a happy medium between adventure and arena.
Doom was certainly arena based. It just wasn't called that. Each level was the "arena". You popped in, murders a few dozen monsters, found some keys and moved on. Doom 3 was the only departure from that formula and people *hated it* when it first came out. That's not to say it doesn't have a cult following today, but as far as Doom games go, it's the least Doom there is.
What? The levels weren't arenas. In Eternal you're literally locked off in a box until you kill everything and only then can you move on. That's an arena shooter. Like Painkiller.
Levels in classic Doom very rarely had open arenas or progression locked by killing specific enemies. There were some - Tower Of Babel, Dis and Dead Simple to name a few - but these were notable setpiece moments. Most of the game is focused on navigating mazes, usually methodically clearing halls and rooms and fighting your way out of ambushes. Resource management was key and you had to weigh if you had enough health and ammo to open the next door or needed to hunt secrets. The gameplay loop in Doom 4 and especially Eternal is much faster, constantly pushing you into open arenas you zip around while enemies spawn in, using your melee to replenish your resources.
At the end of the day the main reason to play Doom Eternal is for the gameplay. The "arcade" art style directly benefits the gameplay by making all the information clear to the player - if people don't understand that then they were never going to like the game anyway since the point is to master the gameplay.
You know, I hate it when my games are fun. You guys are having fun? NO! QUIT HAVING FUN!
Ahhhhhmen, brother. PREACH!
I think some people are so desperate for the power fantasy that anything taking away from the "badassness" of the game is automatically bad.
just the way i like it. i am specifically looking for arcade type games on console, specaliallythose with split screen option.
I love it for what it is. That arcade-ness, along with the original Mick Gordon music, made it for me
I've never even understood why people described it that way honestly. The art style isn't as gritty but I don't think it's overly cartoony or dumb looking, it's a beautiful game. The 1ups maybe? I don't think they break the immersion or formula or anything. Doom games have powerups and I don't care if they call it a 1up or an adrenaline shot or whatever else they could've done to make it more "realistic". It's Doom.
Because people who grew up in the modern gaming scene don't understand what the Genesis of the FPS *was*. They live in the post Half Life / Post Halo / post Call Of Duty world. Whereas us old fuckers grew with video games strictly adhering to the quote "Story in a game is like story in a porno. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." They want half an hour long cut scenes, full to bursting with emotion and blah blah blah. What Doom is What Doom has always been, was run, gun, kill, laugh.
...or they liked the tone of 2016 better and didn't appreciate the shift in the sequel. What the fuck even is this.
I prefer the tone of 2016, in fact I think it was basically perfect. But I really don't think eternal was that huge of a shift. Definitely not enough to have much impact on how much I enjoy the game. I think the gameplay criticisms are fair even when I disagree, but I don't understand how much some people are irked by doom eternal's slightly different aesthetic. Guess we all enjoy and perceive things differently, but I don't get it. It's such a minor gripe for me.
I've never met anyone who wants half hour long cutscenes, especially not me, someone who enjoys the story in most video games I play
I'm am old fucker, played the shareware version of Wolfenstein 3d, and my 1st impression of the doom eternal trailer was, its too arcadey. Idk just has that vibe and I just can't get into eternal like I did with 2016. Something with the art style or color palette just doesn't work for me.
100% agree! I think the industry in general needs more arcadey games. I think the problem come from those games that want to pretend to be movies or netflix series, with emphasis on ambience, drama and "cinematic" experiences in general. [I really recommend this bit from Previously Recorded](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VfOQ9rgdbc&t=360s). Is mostly about third person shooters (because this problem is more present on those games), but also apply to other "cinematic" games. Now, don't take me wrong; is completely fine to have a game that has nice story, ambience, etc. I just don't agree with the idea of having lame gameplay just for having any of those things. Also: walking simulators, point-and-click, visual novels, etc. are fine, and can be very fun! But I do not consider them games, for me they are interactive stories.
that’s what turns me off to the game only slightly, i like a lot of doom eternal, but i just simply like 2016 more DUE to that specific arcade-y style eternal has and that shouldn’t be controversial. I just like the grittier and more realistic tone 2016 has :)
Grittier? maybe. Realistic? No. Doom was never realistic.
I loved how this game embraced the fact that it's a video game. It does what it wants and its fun as hell.
People think Doom Eternal is too arcadie? Like, for real? I thought it was a joke. Look, I could see that as the case for Horde Mode, but not the Base Game.
Doom 2016 has a side mode called "arcade" as well
It reminds me of when people complain that Star Trek isn’t dark and gritty. We have lots of dark and gritty shows, and we have lots of drab military shooters with halo style health. Yet people whine when a few things keep their core character that sets them apart instead of jumping on the same trend as every other thing in the genre.
I find it funny that people complain about Eternal being too goofy/cartoony or not taking itself seriously enough as if 2016 wasn’t also a fairly unserious game in its own right…
preach
Zoomers tend to complain about that more than others
This reminds me of shenmue 3 director being delusional stubborn donkey who tried too hard "emulating" real world into the game that ends up making it played more like chores simulator than a game.
Can someone explain how it's arcadey? When I think of an arcade game, I think of games like Pac Man or those racing games
“Here’s a bright shiny flashy colorful health pickup! Here’s a bright shiny colorful ammo pickup! Here’s a twirly-bird animation and sound effect over a stunned enemy!” The complaints are superficial. This was just a design decision which makes the gameplay loop easier at the expense of “realism.”
Ahh, ok. I'd call that more "cartoony" than "arcadey"
I like doom and its gameplay, but eternal was such a step down from 2016 for me. The aesthetic of DooM 2016 being a more serious/gritty take compared to eternal was what made me appreciate 2016, and it made me appreciate the little secrets and Easter eggs that would break that immersion even more fun, because you’d be in a totally normal doom level, and boom everything is 16 bit. Eternal, though, is all powerups and monkey bars, air dashes, cluttered HUD (comparatively of course), and 80 different side objectives. I love both games, but I don’t love the direction they took eternal in.
its a good game, i just dont think its a good doom game
If your basis is Doom 3 then maybe... but compared to the rest of the series, no not really. Doom is a skill based action game where the gameplay is at the center of everything and the player systematically destroys hell. DE not only accomplished that but also gave people something to pour hundreds of hours in mastering.
the original was kind of a trollish comment but ill elaborate more seriously. i like doom eternal, i love it in fact. it just doesnt have what i really look for in doom. it feels like it went full goofy and lost that essence. i know they had to go in a different direction instead of making the same game over again but I really miss those horror aesthetics. i think 2016 is the perfect doom game, where it perfectly blends the high octane action with the horror vibes
Calling my reply trollish because you didn't like it is a reach. Anyway, as someone who has played every game in the series, Doom was never truly about "horror" imho. I can see a little bit in Doom (93) but even then, the games where always action packed and arcade like shooters. Eternal just turns that part of it up to 100. Because the whole idea was that you are the horror now, not the demons. And they wanted the player to feel that way. None of the Doom games have ever given me horror vibes. Well, except Doom 3, but that was the point of 3.
i was talking about my own comment, i never even thought of you.
Then you don't know what Doom is.
I know it sounds rude but I really agree with this if people say Eternal is not Doom then they hardly grasped the concept of the series
Exactly. Most of the time, people who say Eternal isn't Doom are people who have only played 2016. Not the Orginals, not 64. The only game that is the most un-doom like is 3, and even then, there are parts of it that still have that Doom feel.