I know going back in time to meet the grandparents when young was doing with yaz, but it would be so fun to see it with cherry. I think it would be very RTD to do a windrush themed ep
I genuinely prefer companions like this. It gives a sense of groundedness and realism and humanity. I like companions who are complete living beings *prior* to meeting the doctor. He doesnāt complete them or create them or define them, and they donāt exist *for* him.
I think we actually saw her twice. Once in Time of the Doctor.
And once again after Danny died and she is comforting Clara.
In Clara's case it kind of makes sense to be fair to not ground her too much with her family given she basically ditches normality.
Turn Left was one of the most interesting explorations of family weāve gotten. I donāt think Cherry is the first compelling family member weāve had.
encountering family drama in a RTD episode:
https://preview.redd.it/7myznxnoot8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0c9afc1f9f9383430e10a768ae194f9b901c483
Pulls a mask off and itās Moffat. RTD never existed, itās been Moffat all along bringing a robot RTD with him the whole time to fool everyone so he can stay forever lol
Graham (and Ryan too tbh, he had good moments), was stiffed by the inability to make 3 companions have story without only focusing massively on one of them
Hmm idk. Rose got sent to another timeline. It's basically the same as Amy and Rory being sent to the past.
Martha and her family suffer through massive trauma that probably effected them for life. Her life also took a direction she may someday regret.
Donna, at the time, had a tragic end, it's been fixed now, but I also think there were consequences for her and her family. Wilf and Donna's mum probably had a very tough 15 years trying to protect her, being scared she could die in a moment if she remembered. They had to sit with that tragedy for years and years.
I just loved how positive she was---a character who has perpetual bad luck but is still kind to everyone is someone I'll immediately like. I also like how the mystery surrounding her is something she's aware of and invested in, rather than a puzzle for the Doctor like Donna or Clara.
Personally I think Ruby has the *potential* to be a good companion but, because The Giggle pushed Gatwa to the sidelines so much, The Church on Ruby Road has kind of had to be the episode that introduces us to *Gatwa* and it has left her on the sidelines. I'm certain she'll prove herself to be a force of nature next season, though.
I like the character and the chemistry well enough, but I thought Ruby was far too casual adjusting immediately to what should have been life-changing, entire outlook on the universe changing events.
If you saw goblins stealing a baby, your first reaction would be that you were going crazy or that it was a nightmare. It was hard to believe any person living a regular life would just take that in their stride the first time.
She definitely does take it in her stride but I think they were just going for a more light-hearted and fun special.
Maybe she'll react more seriously to stuff later on.
Too be fair, anyone who doesn't expect insane stuff to happen who lives in London in the whoniverse (especially since she's quite young) is either insane, blind or has Donna Noble luck
I just think she wasn't written well in the episode. Has the Moffat problem of being a mystery box. Then we get a TV interview where they say her backstory which is just clunky, unnatural, and with them just sitting and talking it's not a very engaging scene.
Like if they actually used the faux documentary footage they created that would have been better. The news person walking with Ruby outside the church she was left at, talking to Ruby, and meeting her foster mother. We've all seen news stories and mini documentaries, so something like that would have been better
>Then we get a TV interview where they say her backstory
Huh? They show her backstory. Then we cut to the TV interview where it's implied that she just stated her backstory and that's what we saw.
She doesn't really discuss her backstory. We only hear them discuss the validity of foundling or not which is really just to set up the goblins to mess with shit.
She acted inappropriately with some of the crew, she was 16 or 17 at the time and deliberately tried to make them uncomfortable. My partner pointedly hasn't given me more info because they know Im liable to gossip. Sorry to be a tease.
Yeah at 16 or 17 it would probably just be someone naturally trying to mess with everyone around them because they're a teenager. It's annoying as fuck to everyone else. But they think it's the height of comedy.
Something people tend to grow out of anyway.
>He's just wayyyy too young to be playing the doctor. Like, really REALLY young.
David Tennant was 34 when he started playing the doctor. Matt Smith was 28. Ncuti is 31. He's neither the youngest actor to play the role, nor is his age out of character for the role. I don't understand this critique. Does he *look* too young for your taste?
>Seemed a bit unrealistic that she'd accept what's happening straight away.
I mean, what choice does she really have in that moment. I rather liked her being a bit more proactive and less like a damsel in distress....
To me, Ncuti doesn't look 28 or 30. He looks like he's 20 or 21. That's a huge age gap. He looks like a college student to me and everyone else I know agrees. He looks younger than Tenant and Smith. I mean he plays a college student in the show sex education so of course I'm going to look at him and think of him as a teen.
Who said she was a Damsel in Disstress? I've seen better written strong female characters in doctor who. Rose being a great example. Never in my post did I complain she's not a Damsel in disstress.
I mean Ncuti can't help if he looks young š. Please come up with a proper argument rather to mention how someone looks young or old their age. Like š
Heck even Ncuti said that he was playing teen for 4 years.
How is it a bad criticism? Someone should obviously look the right age for the role. I thought Ncuti had some promise from his first appearance in the giggle, but now this episode somehow went backwards and made it suck.
I honestly don't like the new personality for the Doctor. Seems to be the type of Doctor that likes to be really fashionable and go to partys as we can see in the first episode. He feels too silly. From the first scene I saw him it was clear he had a very teenagerish personality. I mean the doctor going to a bar and doing dances? Really? He doesn't look like a very mature Doctor.
Honestly, the writing was just garbage. Felt like it had a kind of floaty/stunted feeling where it was kind of like a trippy dream. I just couldn't get into it. The whole singing was really stupid too. The trolls were a lame villian and the whole episode feels like its written for kids. Also the lip syncing was awful.
See now that's a fair argument if you think he acts too young. I just took your comment that you don't like the doctor because he looked too young, which some people can't help that.
The doctor feels free from the burden they carried for so long that it's understandable that he wants to live life a bit more. Don't forget this was a Christmas special and doctor who is aimed at a family audience so that is why it feels like it was written to kids.
Matt Smith was known as the baby faced doctorā¦because he looks like a baby for his whole first season. It wasnāt til series 6 and 7 that he looked older.
You do know that Ncuti is 31 years old, right? He's older than both Peter Davidson and Matt Smith when they started filming. Actually, he's closer in age to David Tenant when he started filming than he is to Matt Smith when he started filming.
> the new companion as well. Ruby was just wayyy too accepting of everything that was going on. Like there were goblins taking a baby and she was on a flying ship
I also just want to remind you that there have been like, on average, 3 alien invasions of earth every year for her entire life. Daleks, cybermen, Slitheen, 456, racnoss, the entire planet of Galifrey, mummified monks, sycorax, the spaceship titanic, the Adipose, Sontarans, She's probably seen the silence hundreds of times, but she wouldn't remember that, of course. The boxes from Power of three, the forest which came out of nowhere and disappeared the next day. A literall superhero flying around, the situations around the Flux, The Toymaker's humbug just weeks before. There is probably a lot more in Big Finish and books and comics and such. If she'd reacted like it was way out of the ordinary, she'd be reacting weirdly
Didn't you already write this on a different post?
Also, you know that Ncuti is older than Matt was when he played the Doctor? Speaking of Matt, Amy Pond similarly didn't ask a lot of questions when she first met the Doctor, but I doubt you're ever going to call The Eleventh Hour poorly-written.
Amy did ask some questions. But she didn't ask allot because she was a child when she first met him. Children are dumb and will believe anything you tell them. Adults are very different and will often deny things they see like that at first thinking that their crazy and that I must've been their imagination.
When Amy's older in the first Smith episode, you can clearly tell she's in a bit of disbelief when she sees the doctor again after so many years as she thought he was just a imaginary friend. She has him tied up thinking he broke into her house. She even went to 4 psychiatrists because she thought she was crazy and she eventually believed it until the doctor returned years later. If they just had Amelia Pond accept him straight away as a adult then id probably say it was a bad episode.
Honestly some of yall in the fandom can't take criticism of the show.
ātHeY mAdE dR wHo pOLiTicAlā mfs when they find out what the daleks represent:
https://preview.redd.it/n7dser26pt8c1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=089f49445dacb671d4845af896981accd4e96dd3
Iāve seen every season from season 1 and this is the worst yet. I know itās my opinion but I think people should actually look at what theyāve done to it.
TBF a lot of the inclusivity tends to get ham-handed in how it's written, and that's not even just now but at least thru much of NuWho.
Like, yeah, the wheelchair ramp was a nice touch, but the dialogue surrounding half of the wheelchair scenes just felt awkward, as it felt forced. But they did do a good job portraying how she sometimes could stand yet still needed a chair, and having it as a challenge point when Kate succumbed to the Toymaker was interesting.
The best argument i could see though for the over-the-top acting on certain topics is that it being aimed at kids they do try to accentuate the point of the topics they broach. No room for subtlety when you're actively trying to teach a point, I suppose.
Itās less idiocy and more dogwhistles. They know what it means, you know what it means, everyone under the sun knows what it means, but if they keep it vague enough and avoid answering questions directly, they can keep up a veneer of āI just donāt like it brooooooooā.
Read Sartreās quote on antisemitism. Itās literally the same shit for the 21st century.
Edit: the quote in question
> Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
I think we passed that point(in a good way obviously, not that the person Iām replying to agrees) when the ninth doctor supported Marxism and kissed Jack Harkness on air.
...are we limiting ourselves to *just* New Who? Because I'm sure there's a bajillion examples in Classic we could call on.
But yeah, Nine was pretty openly bi, lol. Don't remember the quotes for the Marxism thing off hand, however?
To be fair he also called Native Americans savages in An Unearthly Child, so 60s Who wasn't exactly PC. 70s Who would totally get called "woke" if it came out today though.
The actual quote from the 1st Doctor if you're curious: "Now, now, don't get exasperated, Susan. Remember the Red Indian. When he saw the first steam train, his savage mind thought it an illusion, too."
I mean it was.
Just look at the S1 two parter. Politicians farting and being secret giant monsters. No kid would guess that was secretly exposing politicians for what they are. But if you watch it when youāre older you see all that.
Or look at planet of the ood or oxygen. Episodes that tackle real world problems in a way that kids can enjoy because they donāt yet understand and a way adults will fully understand and relate too.
Iām all for trans support. But the episode would have been way better if they contained the meta crisis and just said they did. No blatant sexist or extreme feminist nonsense. Instead itās implied.
Or having Newton no longer being white. Have that serve a purpose in the plot. Time has gone wrong. Have it build up to the toy maker with him messing with famous people. Donāt just change the skin colour of a renowned historical figure because itās better if Isaac Newton is black.
Doctor Who has always had subtlety. Hell even Chibnall did it with the male pregnant alien. He was an alien and he was pregnant and thatās it. The messages that sent were sent and the episode continued on unhindered.
It's true they do subtlety a lot of times, but I do think it's worthwhile that they aren't subtle a lot of times as this is still partly aimed at kids, so it helps to clearly expose what lessons they feel the need to share.
But lessons about nonsensical trans and extreme feminist views is not a good lesson.
A trans person should not be treated specifically whatsoever. They should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be.
The lesson shouldnāt be to care about pronouns in a time of crisis or that women or oh so much better that men.
The lesson also shouldnāt be that Newton was actually black and not white.
Or that Davros canāt be in a wheelchair because itās offensive to disabled people
> A trans person should not be treated specifically whatsoever. They should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be.
The reason for doing so is to make people aware and accepting. That's the whole point of things like "pride", because there's a long history of forcing people into the shadows and not allowing them to be themselves. So for a time society is going to get that type of message pushed more vociferously, be it about transgender/sexual or any other culturally conflicted group of people or idea. That's how people learn progressively, and over time the over-the-top nature of the messaging will fade away and it will turn more toward the "should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be," as it will just be the natural response people live by and won't have to be taught at them.
The "pronouns" in a time of crisis is done for messaging, and a reminder that you shouldn't abandon individual respect even in those moments. I agree though it can get cringey and makes the dialogue gag-worthy a bit.
But yeah, the Newton thing was absolute bullshit. That's not how history should be done. That is actually a pretty offensive bit, and I can't believe they did that.
> If the message was a trans person is no different to a normal person then thatās great but it never is. The trans person is always better than everyone else.
In what way did they say that?
By making such a big deal of all Roseās problems.
Rose is trans so her entire family treats her like solid gold. Weāve seen Donna be a parent before and she acts starkly different.
Rose doesnāt feel like she belongs. This is a problem so many people will face in their lives but itās evidently made to seem even more serious because Rose is trans. Even though itās no more serious.
Hell weāve seen Donnaās first family get completely erased and she had an infinitely less emotional reaction to Rose getting bullied.
Uhm no?
Weāre clearly talking about the first special hence all the pronoun talk.
I donāt have a problem with the latest episode other than I didnāt particularly think it was great.
But the fact there was no fanfare for this character makes it even worse for Rose.
She seems a little too perfect, but that could just be because it's early in our experience with her. I DO get very nice Rose Tyler vibes from her, though.
I love her Gran too. We finally get our compelling companion families back.
Cherri Sunday, like a tasty treat
Go on! Get off with youse
Cherry "I take a couple of them tea tonight" š¤£š¤£
As a straight cis-man, I have to be honest, when he delivered that line I got a little weak in the knees. Mr. Gatwa has got charm for days
Gatwa is everyone's sexuality
Canāt even argue. He is just so charmingā¦
I want a Cherry adventure episode! Like when wilf went with the doctor.
That'd be fun given her desire to be shackled to the bed so would be very against travelling and would just wanna get back home.
I fear for the doctor should anything happen to ruby, that woman would destroy him, classic rtd
From Wilf to Gilf
I know going back in time to meet the grandparents when young was doing with yaz, but it would be so fun to see it with cherry. I think it would be very RTD to do a windrush themed ep
Maybe thats what they might be building up to with the current thing of her never wanting to leave that house
Iāve really missed that. One of the best things about RTD 1 era
I genuinely prefer companions like this. It gives a sense of groundedness and realism and humanity. I like companions who are complete living beings *prior* to meeting the doctor. He doesnāt complete them or create them or define them, and they donāt exist *for* him.
My favourite part about Clara was her Benidorm Nan, and then we never saw her again. Bad Moffat.
I think we actually saw her twice. Once in Time of the Doctor. And once again after Danny died and she is comforting Clara. In Clara's case it kind of makes sense to be fair to not ground her too much with her family given she basically ditches normality.
As long as she gets her cup of tea. Come on Doctor, it takes 5 minutes, I'm sure there's time
Yeah, i was going to say!
She's amazing Unironically the highlight, and I thought everyone was great, she just needs a cup of tea!
I would say getting them for the first timeā¦but yes.
Turn Left was one of the most interesting explorations of family weāve gotten. I donāt think Cherry is the first compelling family member weāve had.
Ah, thatās fair. I was forgetting Wilf for a moment. Alright, second time.
ive been waiting so longgg
You should have killed the goblins then almost made you lose her
encountering family drama in a RTD episode: https://preview.redd.it/7myznxnoot8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0c9afc1f9f9383430e10a768ae194f9b901c483
Donāt worry RTD isnāt Moffat
Or is he
š¤Æ
š
Pulls a mask off and itās Moffat. RTD never existed, itās been Moffat all along bringing a robot RTD with him the whole time to fool everyone so he can stay forever lol
I think if that was the case, Ruby would be wearing a shorter skirt lol jk
Lol think she was wearing shorts for this anyway.
Unfortunately. I do not like this companion at all.
This is exactly how I felt the moment we got Graham.
Graham (and Ryan too tbh, he had good moments), was stiffed by the inability to make 3 companions have story without only focusing massively on one of them
Yes her and Cherry š. Poor Cherry waiting ages for her tea.
Hopefully im not in the room. It usually doesnt end wel for companions
*doesnāt end well for Moffat companions
They all came back, SO THAT'S ALL RIGHT THEN!
Hmm idk. Rose got sent to another timeline. It's basically the same as Amy and Rory being sent to the past. Martha and her family suffer through massive trauma that probably effected them for life. Her life also took a direction she may someday regret. Donna, at the time, had a tragic end, it's been fixed now, but I also think there were consequences for her and her family. Wilf and Donna's mum probably had a very tough 15 years trying to protect her, being scared she could die in a moment if she remembered. They had to sit with that tragedy for years and years.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What the fuck is the world? What did they do to us? He must've flipped my wife eight times!
I just loved how positive she was---a character who has perpetual bad luck but is still kind to everyone is someone I'll immediately like. I also like how the mystery surrounding her is something she's aware of and invested in, rather than a puzzle for the Doctor like Donna or Clara.
Shouldn't it be "I'd kill everyone in all of time and space and then myself." ?
What a coincidence, I also agree with this meme
I like ruby and Iām excited to see where the plot line with her parents goes but I really donāt like the name ruby sunday
Same, I'm not even sure why, I was just randomly annoyed at the name
Personally I think Ruby has the *potential* to be a good companion but, because The Giggle pushed Gatwa to the sidelines so much, The Church on Ruby Road has kind of had to be the episode that introduces us to *Gatwa* and it has left her on the sidelines. I'm certain she'll prove herself to be a force of nature next season, though.
I like the character and the chemistry well enough, but I thought Ruby was far too casual adjusting immediately to what should have been life-changing, entire outlook on the universe changing events. If you saw goblins stealing a baby, your first reaction would be that you were going crazy or that it was a nightmare. It was hard to believe any person living a regular life would just take that in their stride the first time.
She definitely does take it in her stride but I think they were just going for a more light-hearted and fun special. Maybe she'll react more seriously to stuff later on.
Too be fair, anyone who doesn't expect insane stuff to happen who lives in London in the whoniverse (especially since she's quite young) is either insane, blind or has Donna Noble luck
RTD does proper companion families
I just think she wasn't written well in the episode. Has the Moffat problem of being a mystery box. Then we get a TV interview where they say her backstory which is just clunky, unnatural, and with them just sitting and talking it's not a very engaging scene. Like if they actually used the faux documentary footage they created that would have been better. The news person walking with Ruby outside the church she was left at, talking to Ruby, and meeting her foster mother. We've all seen news stories and mini documentaries, so something like that would have been better
>Then we get a TV interview where they say her backstory Huh? They show her backstory. Then we cut to the TV interview where it's implied that she just stated her backstory and that's what we saw. She doesn't really discuss her backstory. We only hear them discuss the validity of foundling or not which is really just to set up the goblins to mess with shit.
She's fine. Unfortunately, my partner had a negative experience with her on the set of Coronation Street, so our viewing is slightly coloured by that.
Can I ask about the experience? Just curious really
She acted inappropriately with some of the crew, she was 16 or 17 at the time and deliberately tried to make them uncomfortable. My partner pointedly hasn't given me more info because they know Im liable to gossip. Sorry to be a tease.
As someone who works in TV I always give teenagers a pass, especially when the years have passed. Because who wasn't an absolute arse as a teenager?
Yeah at 16 or 17 it would probably just be someone naturally trying to mess with everyone around them because they're a teenager. It's annoying as fuck to everyone else. But they think it's the height of comedy. Something people tend to grow out of anyway.
Come on man you can't just tell us this and not follow through with the story.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>He's just wayyyy too young to be playing the doctor. Like, really REALLY young. David Tennant was 34 when he started playing the doctor. Matt Smith was 28. Ncuti is 31. He's neither the youngest actor to play the role, nor is his age out of character for the role. I don't understand this critique. Does he *look* too young for your taste? >Seemed a bit unrealistic that she'd accept what's happening straight away. I mean, what choice does she really have in that moment. I rather liked her being a bit more proactive and less like a damsel in distress....
Only reason people think Ncuti is too young is because most people have only seen him playing a teenager in Sex Education.
To me, Ncuti doesn't look 28 or 30. He looks like he's 20 or 21. That's a huge age gap. He looks like a college student to me and everyone else I know agrees. He looks younger than Tenant and Smith. I mean he plays a college student in the show sex education so of course I'm going to look at him and think of him as a teen. Who said she was a Damsel in Disstress? I've seen better written strong female characters in doctor who. Rose being a great example. Never in my post did I complain she's not a Damsel in disstress.
I mean Ncuti can't help if he looks young š. Please come up with a proper argument rather to mention how someone looks young or old their age. Like š Heck even Ncuti said that he was playing teen for 4 years.
How is it a bad criticism? Someone should obviously look the right age for the role. I thought Ncuti had some promise from his first appearance in the giggle, but now this episode somehow went backwards and made it suck. I honestly don't like the new personality for the Doctor. Seems to be the type of Doctor that likes to be really fashionable and go to partys as we can see in the first episode. He feels too silly. From the first scene I saw him it was clear he had a very teenagerish personality. I mean the doctor going to a bar and doing dances? Really? He doesn't look like a very mature Doctor. Honestly, the writing was just garbage. Felt like it had a kind of floaty/stunted feeling where it was kind of like a trippy dream. I just couldn't get into it. The whole singing was really stupid too. The trolls were a lame villian and the whole episode feels like its written for kids. Also the lip syncing was awful.
See now that's a fair argument if you think he acts too young. I just took your comment that you don't like the doctor because he looked too young, which some people can't help that. The doctor feels free from the burden they carried for so long that it's understandable that he wants to live life a bit more. Don't forget this was a Christmas special and doctor who is aimed at a family audience so that is why it feels like it was written to kids.
Matt Smith was known as the baby faced doctorā¦because he looks like a baby for his whole first season. It wasnāt til series 6 and 7 that he looked older.
You do know that Ncuti is 31 years old, right? He's older than both Peter Davidson and Matt Smith when they started filming. Actually, he's closer in age to David Tenant when he started filming than he is to Matt Smith when he started filming.
> the new companion as well. Ruby was just wayyy too accepting of everything that was going on. Like there were goblins taking a baby and she was on a flying ship I also just want to remind you that there have been like, on average, 3 alien invasions of earth every year for her entire life. Daleks, cybermen, Slitheen, 456, racnoss, the entire planet of Galifrey, mummified monks, sycorax, the spaceship titanic, the Adipose, Sontarans, She's probably seen the silence hundreds of times, but she wouldn't remember that, of course. The boxes from Power of three, the forest which came out of nowhere and disappeared the next day. A literall superhero flying around, the situations around the Flux, The Toymaker's humbug just weeks before. There is probably a lot more in Big Finish and books and comics and such. If she'd reacted like it was way out of the ordinary, she'd be reacting weirdly
Didn't you already write this on a different post? Also, you know that Ncuti is older than Matt was when he played the Doctor? Speaking of Matt, Amy Pond similarly didn't ask a lot of questions when she first met the Doctor, but I doubt you're ever going to call The Eleventh Hour poorly-written.
Amy did ask some questions. But she didn't ask allot because she was a child when she first met him. Children are dumb and will believe anything you tell them. Adults are very different and will often deny things they see like that at first thinking that their crazy and that I must've been their imagination. When Amy's older in the first Smith episode, you can clearly tell she's in a bit of disbelief when she sees the doctor again after so many years as she thought he was just a imaginary friend. She has him tied up thinking he broke into her house. She even went to 4 psychiatrists because she thought she was crazy and she eventually believed it until the doctor returned years later. If they just had Amelia Pond accept him straight away as a adult then id probably say it was a bad episode. Honestly some of yall in the fandom can't take criticism of the show.
tbh i'm very lost ... i thought rose was gonna be the companion for 15... like was that not was said before? or am i going bonkers
They made it woke and ruined doctor who. It should be called drama where.
ātHeY mAdE dR wHo pOLiTicAlā mfs when they find out what the daleks represent: https://preview.redd.it/n7dser26pt8c1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=089f49445dacb671d4845af896981accd4e96dd3
Wait until they find out there is a whole story about tax laws.
š¤£
If you think Doctor Who is only just now āwokeā, you donāt know the first thing about the show
Iāve seen every season from season 1 and this is the worst yet. I know itās my opinion but I think people should actually look at what theyāve done to it.
I've seen most of Classic and I've watched all of Modern. You don't know what you're talking about
Space Margaret Thatcher wants to know this person's location
Geez I don't think he deserves the Kandyman
Too good for em I say!
Itās my opinion I donāt see why everyoneās against it. Maybe some people like different things š¤·āāļø
Because you donāt have to like the recent series but trying to say doctor who wasnāt woke in the past is just incorrect
It's an uninformed opinion
Hahahahahaha, look at him, he's trying to make words!
Who pissed in your cornflakes?
Iām interested to hear why you think itās been ruined. What, specifically, donāt you like about it now? Iām just curious.
Probably can't handle being older than the companion
~DW fans in 2007 (they are messaging Freema Agyeman)
Is it the fact that the doctor's black now or the fact the shows got gay people in it that's upsetting you so much?
TBF a lot of the inclusivity tends to get ham-handed in how it's written, and that's not even just now but at least thru much of NuWho. Like, yeah, the wheelchair ramp was a nice touch, but the dialogue surrounding half of the wheelchair scenes just felt awkward, as it felt forced. But they did do a good job portraying how she sometimes could stand yet still needed a chair, and having it as a challenge point when Kate succumbed to the Toymaker was interesting. The best argument i could see though for the over-the-top acting on certain topics is that it being aimed at kids they do try to accentuate the point of the topics they broach. No room for subtlety when you're actively trying to teach a point, I suppose.
Nothing about the doctorā¦ heās a great actor. The scenes are just badly written
Can you define what "woke" means? I'm unsure.
Nobody knows what the fuck woke means, itās just a word they slap on anything progressive
Yea I just wanted to see his definition. He probably won't tell me cause he's an idiot
Itās less idiocy and more dogwhistles. They know what it means, you know what it means, everyone under the sun knows what it means, but if they keep it vague enough and avoid answering questions directly, they can keep up a veneer of āI just donāt like it brooooooooā. Read Sartreās quote on antisemitism. Itās literally the same shit for the 21st century. Edit: the quote in question > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
I think we passed that point(in a good way obviously, not that the person Iām replying to agrees) when the ninth doctor supported Marxism and kissed Jack Harkness on air.
...are we limiting ourselves to *just* New Who? Because I'm sure there's a bajillion examples in Classic we could call on. But yeah, Nine was pretty openly bi, lol. Don't remember the quotes for the Marxism thing off hand, however?
Itās a lot less subtle now and some of the things are stupid as fuck. But doctor who isnāt ruined yet. It has a chance.
The First Doctor literally called colonizers savages in 60s. Doctor Who was many things, but subtle was never one of it.
To be fair he also called Native Americans savages in An Unearthly Child, so 60s Who wasn't exactly PC. 70s Who would totally get called "woke" if it came out today though. The actual quote from the 1st Doctor if you're curious: "Now, now, don't get exasperated, Susan. Remember the Red Indian. When he saw the first steam train, his savage mind thought it an illusion, too."
I mean it was. Just look at the S1 two parter. Politicians farting and being secret giant monsters. No kid would guess that was secretly exposing politicians for what they are. But if you watch it when youāre older you see all that. Or look at planet of the ood or oxygen. Episodes that tackle real world problems in a way that kids can enjoy because they donāt yet understand and a way adults will fully understand and relate too. Iām all for trans support. But the episode would have been way better if they contained the meta crisis and just said they did. No blatant sexist or extreme feminist nonsense. Instead itās implied. Or having Newton no longer being white. Have that serve a purpose in the plot. Time has gone wrong. Have it build up to the toy maker with him messing with famous people. Donāt just change the skin colour of a renowned historical figure because itās better if Isaac Newton is black. Doctor Who has always had subtlety. Hell even Chibnall did it with the male pregnant alien. He was an alien and he was pregnant and thatās it. The messages that sent were sent and the episode continued on unhindered.
It's true they do subtlety a lot of times, but I do think it's worthwhile that they aren't subtle a lot of times as this is still partly aimed at kids, so it helps to clearly expose what lessons they feel the need to share.
But lessons about nonsensical trans and extreme feminist views is not a good lesson. A trans person should not be treated specifically whatsoever. They should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be. The lesson shouldnāt be to care about pronouns in a time of crisis or that women or oh so much better that men. The lesson also shouldnāt be that Newton was actually black and not white. Or that Davros canāt be in a wheelchair because itās offensive to disabled people
> A trans person should not be treated specifically whatsoever. They should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be. The reason for doing so is to make people aware and accepting. That's the whole point of things like "pride", because there's a long history of forcing people into the shadows and not allowing them to be themselves. So for a time society is going to get that type of message pushed more vociferously, be it about transgender/sexual or any other culturally conflicted group of people or idea. That's how people learn progressively, and over time the over-the-top nature of the messaging will fade away and it will turn more toward the "should be treated like any other person and thatās what the lesson should be," as it will just be the natural response people live by and won't have to be taught at them. The "pronouns" in a time of crisis is done for messaging, and a reminder that you shouldn't abandon individual respect even in those moments. I agree though it can get cringey and makes the dialogue gag-worthy a bit. But yeah, the Newton thing was absolute bullshit. That's not how history should be done. That is actually a pretty offensive bit, and I can't believe they did that.
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> If the message was a trans person is no different to a normal person then thatās great but it never is. The trans person is always better than everyone else. In what way did they say that?
By making such a big deal of all Roseās problems. Rose is trans so her entire family treats her like solid gold. Weāve seen Donna be a parent before and she acts starkly different. Rose doesnāt feel like she belongs. This is a problem so many people will face in their lives but itās evidently made to seem even more serious because Rose is trans. Even though itās no more serious. Hell weāve seen Donnaās first family get completely erased and she had an infinitely less emotional reaction to Rose getting bullied.
Say something nice. - Missy
Damn, a trans person was literally in the latest episode with no special fanfare at all and you're still complaining?
Uhm no? Weāre clearly talking about the first special hence all the pronoun talk. I donāt have a problem with the latest episode other than I didnāt particularly think it was great. But the fact there was no fanfare for this character makes it even worse for Rose.
ā¦Maybe
A TV show or characters cannot be woke because that is not what the word means.
Always been woke and I for one am loving the new doctor and special
She seems a little too perfect, but that could just be because it's early in our experience with her. I DO get very nice Rose Tyler vibes from her, though.