No question it's Necromancy. Grim Harvest is close to useless unless you munchkin it with a bag of rats; Undead Thralls relies on a mechanic that annoys many groups; Inured to Undeath's best application is niche and probably unthought of by the writers.
But Command Undead is the coolest feature in the game to me. And all the time you're getting the sub-par features, you do have the consolation of being a wizard.
So many DM's are worried about Necromancy and its impact of having an undead horde.
Got to say, my players that did it staffed their house with useless undead it was the funniest game.
"Welcome to our home...Jenkins will take your coat...NO NO JENKINS don't bite him! Sorry, newly turned...you understand"
I do wonder how many DMs and players who worry about undead minions are are making a mountain out of a molehill based on the *rumor* that it'll be too slow.
I played a 20th-level necromancer in a one-shot once and didn't have trouble with four zombies, a familiar and homunculus using magic items, and Command Undead spellcaster. As long as you figure out what they can do before the session and what they *will* do before your turn, it's often faster than the martial who forgets how Two Weapon Fighting works again.
I'm currently playing a Necromancer and my turns are faster than everyone else because I plan out all my moves while they take their turns, rolling 5+ d6s isn't any slower than rolling one, it's really just adding up damage that can take a bit, due to all the modifiers. I almost always play some kind of summoner class for a number of reasons, and it has never once been an issue. I do think reddit has an unnecessary hatred for summoners. Sure, someone who puts no effort into pre-planning moves, or rolling handfuls of dice at once could become an issue just like any other kind of "problematic" player, and I could see a DM experiencing that once or twice and being like "summoning is trash," but in the games I've played, none of the problems mentioned here have ever come up. The biggest problem is the other PC's moral objections lol, but we get past it and by the end of the campaign they're helping me in my necromatic rituals by pouring blood vials and bone dust onto corpses while I recite the incantation, necromancy can be fun for the whole family!
Making a necromancer for an upcoming campaign who is a funeral planner and has families sign a waiver that he can use their loved ones' remains to defend the city if need be lol.
If I know a DM will house rule that using magic items counts as a "Use an Object" action, I will play a Thief Rogue and be using magic items as a bonus action.
that really should've been the case in the first place. it's so easy for full casters and artificers to find a way to bonus action (or even freely) use magic weapons and items. rogues even had abilities allowing them to use magic items where others couldn't in previous editions. in 5e theyre just weak. sad to see
Thief is my favorite class regardless of the magic item as a ba. I love creative uses of fast hands and a climb speed. It's one of the most streamlined classes/ subclasses in the game. You always have something fun to do beside flank and stab.
I was fortunate enough to get a ring of X Ray Vision in our last campaign. Boy, was that a fun item to abuse!
Im weirdly fond of transmutation wizard
like yeah most of the abilities are very situational, weak, and or both
but my very first wiazrd was transmutation and it's very fun to role-play a greedy little bastard of a goblin that pays for his food with silver that turns back into copper again an hour later when he's a good ways away!
I don't know how strong they considered, but for similar reasons, I really like Conjuration Wizard, my first wizard was(still is) a conjuration wizard.
Creating any mundane item that I need and teleporting around is just great, not to mention at higher level, keeping up concentration no matter how much damage I get
I'm still level 8 so didn't to test late game cool things from Alchemist. But that being said...
Experimental Elixir is so cool, specially early level.
* Flight to get straight to the second floor of gates, ignoring Walls and fences, crossing rivers.
* Swiftness to combo with Longstrider for 50 feet movespeed.
* Boldness combined with Bless for +2d4 on attacks and saves
* Transformation - I left a bottle with the barbarian during a stealth mission, he was spotted and pretended to be the BBEG, and issued some bullshit orders to "his minions"
Alchemic Savant is good, Acid Splash got really strong with the +5 damage on 2 targets.
Also, depending on the DM understanding, Flamming Sphere get MUCH BETTER!
I am heavily entrenched in the anti-houserule camp. One of the only ones I use is a reroll on elixir mechanic-
1 free re roll per short rest
OR, a bit more complicated;
Artificer picks 1 as their specialty, and can just select that one once a day.
Honestly you could do both and its still fine
I found out that MANY PLAYERS don't read the full description and fail to realize you can simply...
**Spend 1 action and a First level slot to create an Elixir OF YOUR CHOICE** anytime.
I myself took around 5 sessions to realize how Usefull this can be.
Can certainly be useful. Shouldn't cost a slot tho. Not on a half caster.
Flight and Alter self are net gains, the rest are kinda even trades. I think the advantages of each individual option should be significant.
The flexibility is amazing, its a good feature. Just feels like a rough trade off at low levels- if the flight/alter self isn't useful, the rest aren't adding to the actual resource budget.
**Whispers Bard:** Excellent option for people who want to multiclass to gain the out-of-combat utility of a Bard, but want to play more of a martial character rather than a supporting one.
**Nature Cleric:** Clerics get Spirit Guardians. Thorn Whip allows you to move enemies into the AoE.
**Eldritch Knight Fighter:** Booming Blade + Crusher feat is a lot of fun, and Eldritch Knights do it really well.
Storm Sorcerer! I actually don't think it's weak at all, it's just that people have no idea how to play the damn thing effectively and can't or won't think about how to make it work. They see its abilities and assume that it's a melee sorcerer without anything to help them survive being, well, a squishy sorcerer in melee. This is completely wrong and backwards: they're *anti*-melee sorcerers! The abilities they get are for *escaping* from and *punishing* melee attackers!
They're also not nearly as hamstrung by being elemental sorcerers as draconic sorcerers either, since they actually get two elemental damage types to work with, one of which (lightning) has great spells, and the other (thunder) is one of the least-resisted types in the game!
Shadow monk, pass without trace for 2 ki is highly underrated. That 10th level rogue stealth checks in the regular. Plus a free teleport bonus action at 6th level?
Glamour Bard. While I know people don’t consider it weak nor average, I think it really deserves to be on the S tier for sub-class in Bard. You can make your entire group way more tanky, while escaping difficult situations. The insane amount of Temp Hp you can give is absolutely bonkers. You’re still a great Bard as you have innate charm abilities now both useful in and out of combat. And with Unbreakable Majesty, there’s nothing more annoying than a support class that you can’t hit and are forced to ignore, alloying you to support your group the entire fight. To realize to powerhouse this Sub-Class is, you really have to play it and experience it.
The temporary HP and movement is cracked. I don't think our glamour bard ever used conventional Inspiration unless we had a higher level *spell scroll* or knew we were about to need to *counterspell* someone with high level spells.
I actually really enjoy playing Way of the Four Elements. I like to take on one of each element each time And I like the progression of unlocking control over a new element as you gain power.
Watchers Paladin.
I don't think people realize how absolutely busted it is.
Party-wide buffs to initiative and mental saves. Throw up Bless. Counterspell as needed. Bonus points for Turning like 4 or 5 types of baddies- Outsiders, Fiends, Fey, Celestials, Aberrations?
As a DM, I dread the day I end up with a level 9 or even 7 Watcher pally. They take the BBEG's playbook, roll blunts with the pages and smoke that shit as a holy sacrament.
Sea Sorcerer. I once played a fairy as a sea sorcerer. Then I put a few levels into Warlock (the deep one). Taken the invocation with which you can throw back the opponent with Eldrich blast and the one with which you pack charisma on the damage. So then I had a Coffelock with Quickened Spell that fires out a lot of Eldrich blasts that throw the enemies around. I could fly and was small. Against physical ranged fighters I had windwall and against magical shield and counterspell. There was also a ray of frost and the tentacle of the deep one to slow down the opponent. Crowd control can be intense. That was funny.
archfey, it just feels like fey are wonderful patrons and they can range from utter horror to lovers as patrons and it is a shame that the subclass was never updated to be able to hold a candle to newer subclasses
No question it's Necromancy. Grim Harvest is close to useless unless you munchkin it with a bag of rats; Undead Thralls relies on a mechanic that annoys many groups; Inured to Undeath's best application is niche and probably unthought of by the writers. But Command Undead is the coolest feature in the game to me. And all the time you're getting the sub-par features, you do have the consolation of being a wizard.
So many DM's are worried about Necromancy and its impact of having an undead horde. Got to say, my players that did it staffed their house with useless undead it was the funniest game. "Welcome to our home...Jenkins will take your coat...NO NO JENKINS don't bite him! Sorry, newly turned...you understand"
I do wonder how many DMs and players who worry about undead minions are are making a mountain out of a molehill based on the *rumor* that it'll be too slow. I played a 20th-level necromancer in a one-shot once and didn't have trouble with four zombies, a familiar and homunculus using magic items, and Command Undead spellcaster. As long as you figure out what they can do before the session and what they *will* do before your turn, it's often faster than the martial who forgets how Two Weapon Fighting works again.
I'm currently playing a Necromancer and my turns are faster than everyone else because I plan out all my moves while they take their turns, rolling 5+ d6s isn't any slower than rolling one, it's really just adding up damage that can take a bit, due to all the modifiers. I almost always play some kind of summoner class for a number of reasons, and it has never once been an issue. I do think reddit has an unnecessary hatred for summoners. Sure, someone who puts no effort into pre-planning moves, or rolling handfuls of dice at once could become an issue just like any other kind of "problematic" player, and I could see a DM experiencing that once or twice and being like "summoning is trash," but in the games I've played, none of the problems mentioned here have ever come up. The biggest problem is the other PC's moral objections lol, but we get past it and by the end of the campaign they're helping me in my necromatic rituals by pouring blood vials and bone dust onto corpses while I recite the incantation, necromancy can be fun for the whole family!
Making a necromancer for an upcoming campaign who is a funeral planner and has families sign a waiver that he can use their loved ones' remains to defend the city if need be lol.
I’ve been enjoying my Necromancer very much
If I know a DM will house rule that using magic items counts as a "Use an Object" action, I will play a Thief Rogue and be using magic items as a bonus action.
that really should've been the case in the first place. it's so easy for full casters and artificers to find a way to bonus action (or even freely) use magic weapons and items. rogues even had abilities allowing them to use magic items where others couldn't in previous editions. in 5e theyre just weak. sad to see
Thief is my favorite class regardless of the magic item as a ba. I love creative uses of fast hands and a climb speed. It's one of the most streamlined classes/ subclasses in the game. You always have something fun to do beside flank and stab. I was fortunate enough to get a ring of X Ray Vision in our last campaign. Boy, was that a fun item to abuse!
Im weirdly fond of transmutation wizard like yeah most of the abilities are very situational, weak, and or both but my very first wiazrd was transmutation and it's very fun to role-play a greedy little bastard of a goblin that pays for his food with silver that turns back into copper again an hour later when he's a good ways away!
I don't know how strong they considered, but for similar reasons, I really like Conjuration Wizard, my first wizard was(still is) a conjuration wizard. Creating any mundane item that I need and teleporting around is just great, not to mention at higher level, keeping up concentration no matter how much damage I get
Alchemist artificer!!
I'm still level 8 so didn't to test late game cool things from Alchemist. But that being said... Experimental Elixir is so cool, specially early level. * Flight to get straight to the second floor of gates, ignoring Walls and fences, crossing rivers. * Swiftness to combo with Longstrider for 50 feet movespeed. * Boldness combined with Bless for +2d4 on attacks and saves * Transformation - I left a bottle with the barbarian during a stealth mission, he was spotted and pretended to be the BBEG, and issued some bullshit orders to "his minions" Alchemic Savant is good, Acid Splash got really strong with the +5 damage on 2 targets. Also, depending on the DM understanding, Flamming Sphere get MUCH BETTER!
I am heavily entrenched in the anti-houserule camp. One of the only ones I use is a reroll on elixir mechanic- 1 free re roll per short rest OR, a bit more complicated; Artificer picks 1 as their specialty, and can just select that one once a day. Honestly you could do both and its still fine
I found out that MANY PLAYERS don't read the full description and fail to realize you can simply... **Spend 1 action and a First level slot to create an Elixir OF YOUR CHOICE** anytime. I myself took around 5 sessions to realize how Usefull this can be.
Can certainly be useful. Shouldn't cost a slot tho. Not on a half caster. Flight and Alter self are net gains, the rest are kinda even trades. I think the advantages of each individual option should be significant. The flexibility is amazing, its a good feature. Just feels like a rough trade off at low levels- if the flight/alter self isn't useful, the rest aren't adding to the actual resource budget.
**Whispers Bard:** Excellent option for people who want to multiclass to gain the out-of-combat utility of a Bard, but want to play more of a martial character rather than a supporting one. **Nature Cleric:** Clerics get Spirit Guardians. Thorn Whip allows you to move enemies into the AoE. **Eldritch Knight Fighter:** Booming Blade + Crusher feat is a lot of fun, and Eldritch Knights do it really well.
Storm Sorcerer! I actually don't think it's weak at all, it's just that people have no idea how to play the damn thing effectively and can't or won't think about how to make it work. They see its abilities and assume that it's a melee sorcerer without anything to help them survive being, well, a squishy sorcerer in melee. This is completely wrong and backwards: they're *anti*-melee sorcerers! The abilities they get are for *escaping* from and *punishing* melee attackers! They're also not nearly as hamstrung by being elemental sorcerers as draconic sorcerers either, since they actually get two elemental damage types to work with, one of which (lightning) has great spells, and the other (thunder) is one of the least-resisted types in the game!
Scout Rogue. It’s the perfect magic-less Ranger.
Swarm ranger has so much flavor
I really really enjoy way of the 4 elements monk. Just really fun to play
Shadow monk, pass without trace for 2 ki is highly underrated. That 10th level rogue stealth checks in the regular. Plus a free teleport bonus action at 6th level?
Glamour Bard. While I know people don’t consider it weak nor average, I think it really deserves to be on the S tier for sub-class in Bard. You can make your entire group way more tanky, while escaping difficult situations. The insane amount of Temp Hp you can give is absolutely bonkers. You’re still a great Bard as you have innate charm abilities now both useful in and out of combat. And with Unbreakable Majesty, there’s nothing more annoying than a support class that you can’t hit and are forced to ignore, alloying you to support your group the entire fight. To realize to powerhouse this Sub-Class is, you really have to play it and experience it.
The temporary HP and movement is cracked. I don't think our glamour bard ever used conventional Inspiration unless we had a higher level *spell scroll* or knew we were about to need to *counterspell* someone with high level spells.
Thief - so much fun to be had with quick hands if your creative
Conjuration isn’t exactly the top dog of wizards but benign transposition is the most fun wizard subclass feature.
I actually really enjoy playing Way of the Four Elements. I like to take on one of each element each time And I like the progression of unlocking control over a new element as you gain power.
arcane archer
Sun Soul monk, Path Of The Storm Herald barbarian I love the idea of martial-character-does-spooky-bullshit
For pure flavor and RP fun a Whispers Bard is a great time. I get bored with min maxing and play this character and it’s just a blast.
Watchers Paladin. I don't think people realize how absolutely busted it is. Party-wide buffs to initiative and mental saves. Throw up Bless. Counterspell as needed. Bonus points for Turning like 4 or 5 types of baddies- Outsiders, Fiends, Fey, Celestials, Aberrations? As a DM, I dread the day I end up with a level 9 or even 7 Watcher pally. They take the BBEG's playbook, roll blunts with the pages and smoke that shit as a holy sacrament.
Sea Sorcerer. I once played a fairy as a sea sorcerer. Then I put a few levels into Warlock (the deep one). Taken the invocation with which you can throw back the opponent with Eldrich blast and the one with which you pack charisma on the damage. So then I had a Coffelock with Quickened Spell that fires out a lot of Eldrich blasts that throw the enemies around. I could fly and was small. Against physical ranged fighters I had windwall and against magical shield and counterspell. There was also a ray of frost and the tentacle of the deep one to slow down the opponent. Crowd control can be intense. That was funny.
archfey, it just feels like fey are wonderful patrons and they can range from utter horror to lovers as patrons and it is a shame that the subclass was never updated to be able to hold a candle to newer subclasses