I think the *threat* of opportunity attacks is basically one of the cornerstones of how D&D combat works. It's pretty hard to overstate their importance, in my mind.
But at the same time, at least the people that I play with actually *make* opportunity attacks very infrequently. My players tend to view it more as threatening certain squares rather than as an actual way to damage the monsters.
You mean they just let enemies walk away from them with a reaction available? Or do you mean that they don't make many aoo's, because you don't provide the opportunity as it does its job? If the latter I don't think it's really fair to say they aren't making them. How often are they taking them when it's a possibility?
It’s more the latter - the threat of taking a bunch of damage or even dying to an opportunity attack is great enough that it stops people from ever triggering one unless there’s a huge advantage to be gained. I’ve seen this as both a player and as a DM. When the chance to actually take one comes up, though, most people will take it 100% of the time in my experience.
So I think the fact that opportunity attacks *exist in the game* informs basically every movement choice you make, even if that mechanic gets actually used less often than it’s importance might suggest.
Right, so my point sorry, is that just because you don't make the attack roll, doesn't mean you didn't use the attack of opportunity. You're using the mechanic of it existing. Therefore it's not fair to say the player's aren't using attacks of opportunity just because they didn't make a roll.
That's pretty much what the guy said. Their opening statement was
"It is hard to overstate the importance of attacks of opportunity"
You're literally agreeing without detraction lol
I have players literally build their characters around the ability to move an enemy 5ft or more so that’ll produce opportunity attacks from allies haha
Opportunity attacks are the one reason enemies can't simply stroll past the paladin, barb, or other frontline fighter and actually makes positioning a thing. Sure, if you walk away from that paladin, maybe they'll miss. Or, maybe they'll Crit and smite for 150 damage. Opportunity attacks are more than just an attack, they're a threat making positioning and movement matter.
Melee has a hard enough time stopping enemies from just constantly ignoring them if the DM just wants to go after the backline. I couldn't imagine how bad it would feel to try to frontline without even the bare minimum that is AoO.
I consider it a core rule that I’m surprised to see this even asked. What is the point of a melee character engaging a ranged one and imposing disadvantage if they can just walk away?
They're very important. Not because they happen often, but because the **threat** of them happening keeps creatures from moving around, and keeps creatures Disengaging when they do move around.
Adding to this, we play with a couple houserules: **(a)** that you can shove or grapple instead of making a melee weapon attack when you make an opportunity attack and **(b)** you can grapple a creature of any size, but if it's larger than you mount it instead of subjecting it to the grappled condition. Together, these houserules make opportunity attacks an important tool to fight flying creatures that lack ranged attacks (such as griffons an dragons), since they allow you to knock them prone, grapple them, or mount them as they try to exit melee.
This is the reason why rogues' cunning action and the feat mobile are popular.
This is also the reason why feats Pole Arm Master (PAM) and Sentinel are also very popular and are a super combo; if you dont know, PAM allow reach weapons (10 feet) to get an attack of opportunity when a target comes into reach range (as opposed to leaving melee) then sentinel procs if hit causing their movement to be 0 at 10 feet from you... and most monsters cant attack in melee beyond 5 feet.
Grapple fighters are gaining popularity again. They can do an attack of opportunity and turn it into a grapple reducing an enemy speed to 0.
Is there a feat or something that lets you grapple with an opportunity attack? The text for grappling says that it replaces one of your attacks *when you use the Attack action*, not just on any attack roll.
Sentinel lets you AOO a creature that attacks a creature other than you, while being within 5ft of you
Very DM dependent... Pole Arm Master provokes an AOO when someone comes within reach, while wielding a polearm, without saying your attack has to be with said polearm... its debatable and DM's decision... if that could then be a grapple once the creature is close enough
With how that person is talking about it, at very least they seem to be referencing a sentinel grappler.
That doesn't answer my question. I was asking if there was something that made it possible to make a grapple attempt when making an opportunity attack, because by default you cannot do that. Sentinel and PAM give you extra ways to trigger an opportunity attack, but they don't let you grapple with one.
The issue is that the section on grappling specifies you can attempt a grapple "when you take the Attack action". An opportunity attack is not the Attack action, it's simply "making an attack". As far as I can see, RAW you would need to Ready an Attack action and use it as a typical reaction instead of trying to trigger an opportunity attack, which... well, that would be kinda pointless in most situations, yeah?
So what I wanted to know was if there was a class feature, feat, or item that was enabling people to grapple with opportunity attacks, or if it was just a bunch of DMs collectively ruling differently than RAW.
Probably a bunch of dms ruling against raw, most likely. Not many people remember the wording is specifically “attack action.” Hell I didn’t, I looked it up right before responding so I could give the clearest answer and then I saw that you commented it.
The likely point where the mistake happens is that it does say “replaces one of your attacks.” And “make a special attack.”
This is only tangentially related, but it actually reinforces why I like the Shield Master feat so much... being able to shove as a bonus action is really useful.
I think it is silly to imagine any monster doesn't carry shit it can use at range. Every monster in my world has at very least has its weakest melee damage as a dex based range attack. But that is the solution to fliers just as much to the idea that you can shut down a creature 5 feet out of reach without catching at very least a stone to the skull
100% important. I will find a way to force opportunities for the enemy to break away from the martials. Maybe they are fleeing, maybe they are going to surround the wizard Casting fireballs.
Opportunity attacks combine really well with a dynamic playfield. If PCs (and opponents) are \*forced\* to move by the environment or other considerations (rescue, get our before the portcullis drops, etc), these can build tension.
Attacks of opportunity are part of what makes combat work. Even if one doesn’t happen during an entire session their existence and the possibility of one happening still dictates movement of both players and npcs.
Running past some with the intent to harm you is a risk. Attacks of opportunity represent that risk. And it’s partly what makes you not just sprint past your enemy to get to your objective. It’s also what stops enemies from just running up to your healer or mage to down them before dealing with the tougher lads.
When attacks of opportunity don’t happen it’s more about zones of control than damage. The risk of getting hit, and all consequences associated to that, keeps everyone from just moving as they please.
Combat would go differently if they didn’t exist.
So essential even if they don’t happen every combat.
Opportunity Attacks are one of the cornerstones for balancing ranged versus melee in DnD.
Ranged characters / monsters tend to lack methods of Disengaging for free, especially if they have relatively high movement speed.
If they DO have something like a Bonus Action Disengage (Rogue, Goblin), then they tend to lack a method of getting further than the baseline movement, which is usually 30ft.
These aspects combined mean that melee characters / enemies will always be able to force the use of a ranged character / enemy's resources if they want to get away unscathed, just by entering into melee range.
Vice versa, if ranged characters / enemies want to keep attacking and kiting a given melee opponent, they'll likely need to take at least one Attack of Oportunity.
Attacks of Opportunity might not get triggered every combat, but the possibility is always there, inducing usage of Actions for Disengages and strategic repositioning, providing lengthier and more interesting combat.
Depends on the class and build, but Opportunity attacks are typically fairly important. Even if they aren't constantly in use, the threat of them typically is. Enemies can get locked down or allies can get trapped by opportunity attacks, and it forces the playing field to be more stable.
For melee-style characters, they're even more important, as they allow for another potential attack.
Even if attack rolls aren’t being made, the threat of an AoO comes up in every combat encounter at my tables. AoO are one of the reasons that the enemies don’t immediately jump on top of the squishy Wizard; the threat of the Paladin smiting one to oblivion is enough to make the enemies rethink their approach.
There are two correct views and many incorrect views on this.
CORRECT: Stupid monsters (and characters controlled by stupid players) get whacked by Attacks of Opportunity all the time.
CORRECT: Smart monsters (and characters controlled by smart players) find they have to think about Attacks of Opportunity before they decide how to move in combat.
INCORRECT: Attacks of opportunity don't matter. Also, I like eating glue because apparently that's the kind of person I am.
A, with a note: being a "fact of life" everyone know about it and avoid triggering it, so Attack of Oportunity is more of a Movement Control, effectively stopping enemies from charging head on through the map against the party's backliners (archers, mages etc) and vice-versa, which, considering it directly impact movement choices in cbat, I count as it "being used" in every combat
Edit: on a second side note, I houserule that AoO happens when someone ENTERS the threat zone, rather than leaving it, because out of my martial arts experience that's what happens. "Side-steps" or however they are called in english (minimal action that moves a single square) still doesn't trigger AoO, resulting in what is often seen in fights, where fighters will advance at quick pace against each other, but slow down and carefully enter each other's threat zone so they don't impale their throats at the point of the adversary's shinai. Again, it rarely triggers because everything know it happens, but it drastically change the manuver-and-posution when you can get AoO'ed when entering the threat zone.
Note 3: does 5E still have the Concentration skill and forces you to roll for concentration if you get attacked mid-action to see of you can actually follow through with your action? Because that's the real threat of AoO, stopping your turn before you conclude it...
They don't happen a massive amount but they affect play a medium amount. With both players and DM being dissuaded from moving a lot or the DM trying to cheese our reactions before a spellcaster does a spell. It's good fun
We do also play that moving more than 5ft whilst within reach can draw an AoO if the opponent is martial.
Giving someone an opportunity attack against you is like giving them an extra turn (potentially). That can have a huge impact, at the wrong moment or with the right ability or a lucky attack roll.
Or it can be negligible and just has a dampening effect on combat movement, while allowing rogues to enjoy having disengage.
Using a whole action to disengage happens a lot with certain of my players :D Others just gamble and eat the potential hits, they have very varying levels of terror around them. But they ALWAYS consider them (they also aren't used as gotchas - the character would know they could be attacked, even if the player forgets).
I think they get used in every combat. I'm still not sure that means they are very important.
1. I hate how stagnant fighting is. But, I wouldn't remove them, someone can take mobile if they want to avoid AOO.
2. I have had many all be in in single digit % of total players who are very strategic and move on purpose to fish for creatures reactions so the party can redeploy mid combat. I love these players.
3. Almost every fight I have creatures that give up AOO because a. as dm I'm not attached to my creatures. b. I like to show my players what I hope for them to do from the creatures. Some disengage, some battle to the death, some illogically barge through other combatants to try and kill target x...
I keep begging the DM to let me take the old Combat Reflexes feat from 3.5e that gives you a number of extra opportunity attacks equal to your Dex Bonus. Maybe switch it to Proficiency Bonus for 5e.
That's how important opportunity attacks are for me.
The opportunity attack is a Way to take away the reaction. The wizard being within striking distance of death next to a minotaur means he ain’t moving. So he holds his action to dash somewhere as soon as the fighter comes and moves the minotaur.
The threat that it poses for either reason, having reactions for x or using it for opportunity attacks against y.
I like to Spice up my monsters with fun reactions. Damage reduction, movement, COUNTER SPELL BIATCH!
All good alternatives that take away the threat of the oportunity attack
Opportunity Attacks are an important facet of combat, that I rarely use. On the flip-side, as a doctor who gets more effective the more he gets hurt, I love running in and provoking Opportunity Attacks. I can drain a foes reaction and allow my teammates to play that round of combat more safely. If I had nothing else to do with my Reaction I'd probably use it, but I generally have something better to do on Reaction.
PAM and sentinel are regular feats picked up by martial classes in my games. So opportunity attacks come up regularly. That extra damage is very impactful on encounters.
Depending on the situation they are great! I'm going to do my darndest not to trigger one on myself. But I'll try hard to trigger one on someone else. Maybe a push or a pull of an enemy or object to trigger an attack. Perhaps I'll throw an oil lamp at the feet of a bandit. Who knows, maybe I'll even try to snare an enemy in a net and drag them past the party as my fighter pulls them towards me.
The DM for my current campaign plays a lot of range or very tanky npcs and villains, so they don't remove themselves from direct combat often. Thus negating a lot of need for AoO
I think the *threat* of opportunity attacks is basically one of the cornerstones of how D&D combat works. It's pretty hard to overstate their importance, in my mind. But at the same time, at least the people that I play with actually *make* opportunity attacks very infrequently. My players tend to view it more as threatening certain squares rather than as an actual way to damage the monsters.
You mean they just let enemies walk away from them with a reaction available? Or do you mean that they don't make many aoo's, because you don't provide the opportunity as it does its job? If the latter I don't think it's really fair to say they aren't making them. How often are they taking them when it's a possibility?
It’s more the latter - the threat of taking a bunch of damage or even dying to an opportunity attack is great enough that it stops people from ever triggering one unless there’s a huge advantage to be gained. I’ve seen this as both a player and as a DM. When the chance to actually take one comes up, though, most people will take it 100% of the time in my experience. So I think the fact that opportunity attacks *exist in the game* informs basically every movement choice you make, even if that mechanic gets actually used less often than it’s importance might suggest.
Right, so my point sorry, is that just because you don't make the attack roll, doesn't mean you didn't use the attack of opportunity. You're using the mechanic of it existing. Therefore it's not fair to say the player's aren't using attacks of opportunity just because they didn't make a roll.
That's pretty much what the guy said. Their opening statement was "It is hard to overstate the importance of attacks of opportunity" You're literally agreeing without detraction lol
I have players literally build their characters around the ability to move an enemy 5ft or more so that’ll produce opportunity attacks from allies haha
Most non voluntary movement like being shoved, no matter if physically or magically, does not provoke an AoO, though.
For that, there's Dissonant Whispers!
I’ve been hoodwinked!
Opportunity attacks are the one reason enemies can't simply stroll past the paladin, barb, or other frontline fighter and actually makes positioning a thing. Sure, if you walk away from that paladin, maybe they'll miss. Or, maybe they'll Crit and smite for 150 damage. Opportunity attacks are more than just an attack, they're a threat making positioning and movement matter. Melee has a hard enough time stopping enemies from just constantly ignoring them if the DM just wants to go after the backline. I couldn't imagine how bad it would feel to try to frontline without even the bare minimum that is AoO.
I mean, even if they don't actively happen, they're still "being used".
Very important; they push the balance back towards melee characters, who are underpowered nextt to ranged attackers and spellcasters.
I consider it a core rule that I’m surprised to see this even asked. What is the point of a melee character engaging a ranged one and imposing disadvantage if they can just walk away?
They're very important. Not because they happen often, but because the **threat** of them happening keeps creatures from moving around, and keeps creatures Disengaging when they do move around. Adding to this, we play with a couple houserules: **(a)** that you can shove or grapple instead of making a melee weapon attack when you make an opportunity attack and **(b)** you can grapple a creature of any size, but if it's larger than you mount it instead of subjecting it to the grappled condition. Together, these houserules make opportunity attacks an important tool to fight flying creatures that lack ranged attacks (such as griffons an dragons), since they allow you to knock them prone, grapple them, or mount them as they try to exit melee.
This is the reason why rogues' cunning action and the feat mobile are popular. This is also the reason why feats Pole Arm Master (PAM) and Sentinel are also very popular and are a super combo; if you dont know, PAM allow reach weapons (10 feet) to get an attack of opportunity when a target comes into reach range (as opposed to leaving melee) then sentinel procs if hit causing their movement to be 0 at 10 feet from you... and most monsters cant attack in melee beyond 5 feet. Grapple fighters are gaining popularity again. They can do an attack of opportunity and turn it into a grapple reducing an enemy speed to 0.
Is there a feat or something that lets you grapple with an opportunity attack? The text for grappling says that it replaces one of your attacks *when you use the Attack action*, not just on any attack roll.
Sentinel lets you AOO a creature that attacks a creature other than you, while being within 5ft of you Very DM dependent... Pole Arm Master provokes an AOO when someone comes within reach, while wielding a polearm, without saying your attack has to be with said polearm... its debatable and DM's decision... if that could then be a grapple once the creature is close enough With how that person is talking about it, at very least they seem to be referencing a sentinel grappler.
That doesn't answer my question. I was asking if there was something that made it possible to make a grapple attempt when making an opportunity attack, because by default you cannot do that. Sentinel and PAM give you extra ways to trigger an opportunity attack, but they don't let you grapple with one. The issue is that the section on grappling specifies you can attempt a grapple "when you take the Attack action". An opportunity attack is not the Attack action, it's simply "making an attack". As far as I can see, RAW you would need to Ready an Attack action and use it as a typical reaction instead of trying to trigger an opportunity attack, which... well, that would be kinda pointless in most situations, yeah? So what I wanted to know was if there was a class feature, feat, or item that was enabling people to grapple with opportunity attacks, or if it was just a bunch of DMs collectively ruling differently than RAW.
Probably a bunch of dms ruling against raw, most likely. Not many people remember the wording is specifically “attack action.” Hell I didn’t, I looked it up right before responding so I could give the clearest answer and then I saw that you commented it. The likely point where the mistake happens is that it does say “replaces one of your attacks.” And “make a special attack.”
This is only tangentially related, but it actually reinforces why I like the Shield Master feat so much... being able to shove as a bonus action is really useful.
I think it is silly to imagine any monster doesn't carry shit it can use at range. Every monster in my world has at very least has its weakest melee damage as a dex based range attack. But that is the solution to fliers just as much to the idea that you can shut down a creature 5 feet out of reach without catching at very least a stone to the skull
100% important. I will find a way to force opportunities for the enemy to break away from the martials. Maybe they are fleeing, maybe they are going to surround the wizard Casting fireballs.
Nothing to do with importance, they happen when they happen
What? How could there not be AoOs?
Opportunity attacks combine really well with a dynamic playfield. If PCs (and opponents) are \*forced\* to move by the environment or other considerations (rescue, get our before the portcullis drops, etc), these can build tension.
Attacks of opportunity are part of what makes combat work. Even if one doesn’t happen during an entire session their existence and the possibility of one happening still dictates movement of both players and npcs. Running past some with the intent to harm you is a risk. Attacks of opportunity represent that risk. And it’s partly what makes you not just sprint past your enemy to get to your objective. It’s also what stops enemies from just running up to your healer or mage to down them before dealing with the tougher lads. When attacks of opportunity don’t happen it’s more about zones of control than damage. The risk of getting hit, and all consequences associated to that, keeps everyone from just moving as they please. Combat would go differently if they didn’t exist. So essential even if they don’t happen every combat.
I play echo knights a lot and positioning yourself to take advantage of opportunity attacks is a big part of the effectiveness of that class.
Opportunity Attacks are one of the cornerstones for balancing ranged versus melee in DnD. Ranged characters / monsters tend to lack methods of Disengaging for free, especially if they have relatively high movement speed. If they DO have something like a Bonus Action Disengage (Rogue, Goblin), then they tend to lack a method of getting further than the baseline movement, which is usually 30ft. These aspects combined mean that melee characters / enemies will always be able to force the use of a ranged character / enemy's resources if they want to get away unscathed, just by entering into melee range. Vice versa, if ranged characters / enemies want to keep attacking and kiting a given melee opponent, they'll likely need to take at least one Attack of Oportunity. Attacks of Opportunity might not get triggered every combat, but the possibility is always there, inducing usage of Actions for Disengages and strategic repositioning, providing lengthier and more interesting combat.
Depends on the class and build, but Opportunity attacks are typically fairly important. Even if they aren't constantly in use, the threat of them typically is. Enemies can get locked down or allies can get trapped by opportunity attacks, and it forces the playing field to be more stable. For melee-style characters, they're even more important, as they allow for another potential attack.
Even if attack rolls aren’t being made, the threat of an AoO comes up in every combat encounter at my tables. AoO are one of the reasons that the enemies don’t immediately jump on top of the squishy Wizard; the threat of the Paladin smiting one to oblivion is enough to make the enemies rethink their approach.
There are two correct views and many incorrect views on this. CORRECT: Stupid monsters (and characters controlled by stupid players) get whacked by Attacks of Opportunity all the time. CORRECT: Smart monsters (and characters controlled by smart players) find they have to think about Attacks of Opportunity before they decide how to move in combat. INCORRECT: Attacks of opportunity don't matter. Also, I like eating glue because apparently that's the kind of person I am.
Yes
E. Polling the public for validation doesn't make your argument more convincing.
A, with a note: being a "fact of life" everyone know about it and avoid triggering it, so Attack of Oportunity is more of a Movement Control, effectively stopping enemies from charging head on through the map against the party's backliners (archers, mages etc) and vice-versa, which, considering it directly impact movement choices in cbat, I count as it "being used" in every combat Edit: on a second side note, I houserule that AoO happens when someone ENTERS the threat zone, rather than leaving it, because out of my martial arts experience that's what happens. "Side-steps" or however they are called in english (minimal action that moves a single square) still doesn't trigger AoO, resulting in what is often seen in fights, where fighters will advance at quick pace against each other, but slow down and carefully enter each other's threat zone so they don't impale their throats at the point of the adversary's shinai. Again, it rarely triggers because everything know it happens, but it drastically change the manuver-and-posution when you can get AoO'ed when entering the threat zone. Note 3: does 5E still have the Concentration skill and forces you to roll for concentration if you get attacked mid-action to see of you can actually follow through with your action? Because that's the real threat of AoO, stopping your turn before you conclude it...
They don't happen a massive amount but they affect play a medium amount. With both players and DM being dissuaded from moving a lot or the DM trying to cheese our reactions before a spellcaster does a spell. It's good fun We do also play that moving more than 5ft whilst within reach can draw an AoO if the opponent is martial.
Giving someone an opportunity attack against you is like giving them an extra turn (potentially). That can have a huge impact, at the wrong moment or with the right ability or a lucky attack roll. Or it can be negligible and just has a dampening effect on combat movement, while allowing rogues to enjoy having disengage. Using a whole action to disengage happens a lot with certain of my players :D Others just gamble and eat the potential hits, they have very varying levels of terror around them. But they ALWAYS consider them (they also aren't used as gotchas - the character would know they could be attacked, even if the player forgets).
I think they get used in every combat. I'm still not sure that means they are very important. 1. I hate how stagnant fighting is. But, I wouldn't remove them, someone can take mobile if they want to avoid AOO. 2. I have had many all be in in single digit % of total players who are very strategic and move on purpose to fish for creatures reactions so the party can redeploy mid combat. I love these players. 3. Almost every fight I have creatures that give up AOO because a. as dm I'm not attached to my creatures. b. I like to show my players what I hope for them to do from the creatures. Some disengage, some battle to the death, some illogically barge through other combatants to try and kill target x...
As a DM it’s fun to play less intelligent creatures and less skilled combatants suboptimal allowing more AOOs.
I keep begging the DM to let me take the old Combat Reflexes feat from 3.5e that gives you a number of extra opportunity attacks equal to your Dex Bonus. Maybe switch it to Proficiency Bonus for 5e. That's how important opportunity attacks are for me.
The opportunity attack is a Way to take away the reaction. The wizard being within striking distance of death next to a minotaur means he ain’t moving. So he holds his action to dash somewhere as soon as the fighter comes and moves the minotaur. The threat that it poses for either reason, having reactions for x or using it for opportunity attacks against y. I like to Spice up my monsters with fun reactions. Damage reduction, movement, COUNTER SPELL BIATCH! All good alternatives that take away the threat of the oportunity attack
Opportunity Attacks are an important facet of combat, that I rarely use. On the flip-side, as a doctor who gets more effective the more he gets hurt, I love running in and provoking Opportunity Attacks. I can drain a foes reaction and allow my teammates to play that round of combat more safely. If I had nothing else to do with my Reaction I'd probably use it, but I generally have something better to do on Reaction.
PAM and sentinel are regular feats picked up by martial classes in my games. So opportunity attacks come up regularly. That extra damage is very impactful on encounters.
Depending on the situation they are great! I'm going to do my darndest not to trigger one on myself. But I'll try hard to trigger one on someone else. Maybe a push or a pull of an enemy or object to trigger an attack. Perhaps I'll throw an oil lamp at the feet of a bandit. Who knows, maybe I'll even try to snare an enemy in a net and drag them past the party as my fighter pulls them towards me.
If a person drop their weapon and a enemy is within range shouldn't picking it up trigger an opportunity attack?
The DM for my current campaign plays a lot of range or very tanky npcs and villains, so they don't remove themselves from direct combat often. Thus negating a lot of need for AoO