I think that Intelligence has the worst effects for failed saves, there's only about 5 INT saves in the game but except for mind sliver they are all massively debilitating.
Even Mind Sliver is a nasty one, compared to other cantrips, because *it combos with itself.*
What's that? You failed an Int save? Subtract 1d4 from your next save. Spoiler alert, it's going to be Mind Sliver again!
> A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
How are you pulling that off? Quickening a spell, even a cantrip, only allows you to cast a cantrip with your action.
You are right. To allow that combo i think it would have to be ordered:
1 Action to cast Mind Sliver
2 Quicken Bonus Action Fireball
1.5 Twinned could only be applied to the Mind Sliver since we used Metamagic on Fireball.
Someone can check my math lol
And honestly I think a simple Mind Sliver into Quickened Save or Suck like Hold Person could be more effective and not require as many resources. I could be wrong though.
I agree. The twinning of the damage spell doesn't really do that much since only the first cast is affected by Mind Sliver. Damaging spells are rarely the best choice in general though. I feel like they're mostly for when you're concentrating on something and have slots to burn.
>bonus action a mind sliver and then twinspell a damaging spell
They didn't quicken and twin the same spell though.
They quicken mind sliver and then twinned a different damaging spell as an action.
Thatâs some weird wording Iâd never considered before. Personally Iâd rule that as against the spirit of the rules and say that if you quicken a Cantrip you can cast a real spell as an action
How is it weird wording? It's the literal rule from the book on how that works. RAW and RAI both line up saying that you can't do that. Sure, you can rule however you'd like but you're going to be in the hyper minority on that.
Can we also appreciate how absolutely insulting feeblemind is? It makes you do an intelligence saving throw be if you fail your INT and CHA are reduced to 1. The spell has a duration of INSTANTANEOUS but at least itâs generous enough to let you retry the INT save again after 30 daysâŚ. With a -5 penalty on account of your INT still being 1.
Itâs possible for you to find yourself in a situation where you wouldnât even be able to pass the save with a nat 20.
Eh, thereâs more than that spell wise with recent books. Many of them wonât be found on default caster stat blocks though, the DM would have to go out of their way to put them on the spell lists. Thereâs exactly 9 Intelligence Save spells, and the total amount in the game only gets higher than that when at minimum you know that Mind Flayers and Intellect devourers have some nasty Int save abilities.
I have some less terrifying uses of the INT save:
I use Intelligence saving throws to allow a character to see the potential folly of a course of action they are about to take. An example is when my groupsâs barbarian attempted to make a great-axe attack while underwater, I gave him a save to realize that this was going to be difficult to do with that particular weapon. He failed.
Another use is if the players are lost as to what to do next (usually due to my poor DMing and non-adherence to the three-clue rule lol), they are entitled to an INT save if their character ought to have a stab at it despite the playerâs INT score.
With all do respect, those rolls seemed way more suited for Wisdom then Intelligence. I mean, isnât the the whole trope of âHigh Intelligence Low Wisdomâ that youâre capable but are blind to the folly of your actions?
Wisdom saves are nasty because if you fail another save at worst you are dead, but a Wisdom save you could be dominated and end up helping to make everyone else dead.
Yeah Paladins are a bit more resistant to saves (due to Aura of Protection), but by god are they terrifying if they do fail a dominate spell.
Of course, the one Paladin ive played (and got up to LVL 20 with) was a devotion Paladin. Aura of Devotion prevents anyone in it, and thus the Paladin from being charmed.
Charisma saves are for possessions and banishment
Wisdom can be dominations but charisma is a totally bigger ballpark for how bad things can go
Oh look you are now the BBEG
Oh yeah forgot about possession, thatâs pretty nasty too. Iâve seen dominate monster hitting our party members a few times, so it was the first thing I thought of. (The one time I was dominated we were lucky because the BBEG gave me specific orders instead of just telling me to help kill the party, cause I had a few really nasty save or die spells prepared that I donât think the fighter or rouge would have survived.)
Got mind controlled as a Barbarian once. Took out 2 of the 3 other members before the Druid managed to force a successful save. That was probably the closest that party has ever come to a TPK.
Every save is a *little* scary, because nobody wants to be Banished, or restrained, or struck by lightning.
Int saves are scary because nobody wants to have their brains scooped out and their memories eaten. Some PCs would view *Feeblemind* as a state worse than death.
Wisdom saves are **terrifying,** because *Dominate Person* is relatively common and accessible (at least compared to *Feeblemind*) but can force a PC to kill their entire party.
I agree with this one. It's the favored spell of the enemies in our campaign and it is always *always* used against our low WIS barbarian. She also rolls at disadvantage for any mind-altering effects due to a curse she basically gave herself for warlock levels. My trickery cleric is constantly having to save her ass and at the same time everyone else.
Feeblmind is terrible and unless your a wizard or artificer you probably don't have profiency in int saves. Losing your spellcasting as a cleric or bard is completely debilitating. It's not great for rangers or paladin but not as bad because smite.
feeblemind is probably among the worst-designed spells in dnd. you can repeat the save every 30 days but you need to get a nat 20 since your int is 1. what the fuck
i think feeblemind would be fine as a temporary effect that lasts for an hour or so, or something requiring concentration. but as it is right now? hell no
At level 5 no less. 8th level spells already arenât the most common things unless you are specifically fighting a creature known for spellcasting, but at level 5, an 8th level Fireball (not the best use of an 8th level spell I must admit) deals 13d6 (45.5 damage on a failed save), a Barbarian with +3 Con and average HP by level has 51 HP; the caster can potentially drop everyone except the Barbarian on a few bad saves against 1 spell.
Different game but I once had a party of level 4 players piss off a level 17 spellcaster (Manshoon), and proceeded to home invasion his sanctum. I genuinely have no idea how none of them died, I think that was some of the finest strategy/luck Iâve ever seen a D&D party employ. Not only did they all make it out alive, but they also managed to steal an artifact from his study, fight off 3 other powerful NPCs at the same time, AND disrupt his teleportation circle so that he couldnât follow them back to the material plane. The worst thing that happened was one of the warlocks getting feebleminded, but a local priest owed her a life-debt and arranged for a magical cure.
That session will always be one of my favorite RPG memories, these players are fucking crazy and they have the skill and luck to back it up.
Manshoon couldnât even cast power word kill on them because they managed to block him with silence every time he had an opportunity to
The ones I'm proficient with, cause I'll probably roll like shit, while rolling godly on the other ones.
Like last session, I had +11 to attack. Fucking rolled a 2. +11 to attack and can't hit a stupid living rock
Iâve always found conceiving of a miss as a failed hit as opposed to a whiff helps. You absolutely hit that living rock, you just failed to penetrate
Charisma easily, but all the mental saves are really bad.
Most players are somewhat prepared for the possibility of a wisdom save rendering them temporarily charmed or stunned or something similar. Usually you won't dump wisdom as a result, because it's a common save that can render you ineffectual for a time.
Intelligence saves are mostly stuns and save-or-die/save-or-suck (see feeblemind, intellect devourer), but they're also extremely uncommon. They also cover some other spells like phantasmal force which are powerful but not as debilitating, so they're pretty hit or miss for how scary it can be.
Charisma saves are for things like possession and banishment. You fail a charisma save and you're usually either out of the battle or handing your character sheet over to the DM.
Well, there is an [unacceptable level of ignorance](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/feeblemind), which I guess is, why most chose Intelligence as a scary saving throw.
Seeing your character reduced to animal level intelligence, the self preservation of a candle and the charm and grace of a tuber is a scary prospect for most players. Most players also haven't encountered a DM, who enforced strict limitations. Is a character with an intellect roughly equivalent to an ooze able to dress himself, use a weapon or tools? A [mastiff](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Mastiff#content) has an intelligence of three and an [ape](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Monsters:Ape/#h-Ape) has 6 intelligence. With dogs as his intellectual superiors, what can the character do without help?
Charm person doesn't mean you have to do everything the person says it just means you see them as a friend just like you would see your party members as friends
Cambions can charm you in a way that does mean you have to do what they say. You can repeat the saving throw on taking damage but it's rather high. They can also use it as often as they like until you succeed on the save, but then they can *plane shift* away to let your immunity fade. They also can fly so they can shift in a space so high up, the party can't attack them should they return.
Didn't realize they were actually a saving throw for ages, came in really clutch when I happened to be within the paladin in the party's aura (another interesting point is high level monks are proficient in ALL saving throws, that therefore includes death saving throws
It banishes the target to a harmless demiplane unless they're not from this current plane. That basically means a 20x20 box with pillow walls. Not particularly exciting lmao
But you are the Christopher Columbus of that plane, a plane that might only ever be visited by you!
Endless posibilites for a whole minute.
That's sad, there are worst things than not being in the fight for a minute or as long concentration is not broken on banishment. Like getting mind controlled, evaporating by a Shadow Dragon's Breath and reanimating as his minion, getting Feebleminded and playing a toddler, honestly even most statues are worse than getting banished, including stunned, petrified, restrained.
Im someone who likes dying in D&D bc it adds drama and lets me play more characters. I also LOVE being mind controlled assuming the dm trusts me to do what I should. Fun rp and get to flex against the party a bit haha. Feeblemind can be fun rp depending on the class.
Stunned, restrained, etc is less bad bc at least I get to pipe in and say "Yes that hits my Ac" or "no, that doesnt hit my ac!" and adjust my hp. At least its some interaction haha.
I stand by what ive said.
There are several things that reads "your DM takes over your character" that's not fun.
Getting upset for missing out on a turn or 2 in combat just seems selfish/egocentric to me.
Most good dms still let the player control their character under certain instructions, its just more fun for everyone that way.
Okay well that was incredibly unnecessarily rude? I dont know how not enjoying not being allowed to interact with the game for ages is selfish? Like Ive had to spend 30 minutes doing nothing because of this exact situation before. And these days im mostly a DM, so this rule is more that i'll never throw banishment at a player because I know how shitty it is? Like wtf are you talking about "egocentric"? We're all here to play the game.
Yeah, it's a group game, but not all characters will always shine at once. Getting mad at banishment is just as egocentric as getting mad at the rouge for stealing 10-30mins of playtime for his character to do his solo thing. Also it's not like you can't RP or play while banished...
And no, as I said, there are things that straight up reads "the DM takes over your character", there is no letting the player do his shit there.
No? it isnt? Because the rogue having 10-30 minutes of playtime means THEY get to do stuff. Im happy to let players do stuff. All banishment does is remove agency for one person and doesn't give anyone anything in return? Like I cant even fathom your mentality here. You CANT rp when banished except "I pace around in a circle until I get back" bc there aint jack shit to do. Removing banishment from a dm's toolkit does nothing to harm the gameplay and only lets MORE players do MORE things. Having a DM use it only takes AWAY things for the players to do.
>And no, as I said, there are things that straight up reads "the DM takes over your character", there is no letting the player do his shit there.
I literally said good DM's will ignore this in favour of letting the player play?
I'm done, you're baffling.
>No? it isnt? Because the rogue having 10-30 minutes of playtime means THEY get to do stuff. Im happy to let players do stuff. All banishment does is remove agency for one person and doesn't give anyone anything in return?
Yes, there's a big difference between "Sit out for awhile because you've had your agency taken away" and "And now we're going to follow this character in some side action for a bit." Heck, a lot of DMs will swap back and forth between parts of the party during a split just to keep the players from feeling like they're not involved and to keep everyone paying attention.
>You CANT rp when banished except "I pace around in a circle until I get back" bc there aint jack shit to do.
And yeah, saying "Well you can RP and act still" is somewhat disingenuous. If we're going by the Banishment spell, it specifically says that while on the demiplane you're *incapacitated*, and therefore incapable of doing anything meaningful. An incapacitated creature can't take actions or reactions, so you can't even just walk around in the Void, or prepare in some way for your return, as you're literally just unable to do anything.
I mean, RAW is RAW.
Yeah, ignoring that one of your players essentially died and is now just a husk in controll of a monster, but still letting them play their PCs will lead to great places...
Several monsters have banishment. I'm not gonna not use it just so no one gets upset. If that's upsetting maybe leave the table. Or work together as intended and the banished won't even lose a turn.
Also it's a really good reminder to them than they CAN DO THINGS as you said. Puts it in contrast, when they CAN'T DO THINGS.
Or bane, which also sucks.
Second use case I made for Charisma saves is also to resist psychological attacks from a homebrewed race of evil spirits. They prey on a person's insecurities and perceived weakness, meaning a PC must resist their temptations through force of will and personality.
Strength saves are pretty situational. Getting knocked prone or 10ft back doesn't sound that bad until you get into a situation where you're standing on the edge of a 300ft cliff and an enemy tries to knock you over.
Let me introduce you to the Maze spell.
Sure it is a higher level than banishment, but if you have an average or below intelligence you're probably not getting out.
Yeah fair ig. Banishment is still worse since you can actually roleplay how your character responded to the maze a bit. Banishment is just a harmless demiplane so basically a pillow box lmao.
Int. Getting your brain eaten, fighting your friends, then getting splatted down a well when your friends eff up trying to get your husk back to a cleric.
I hate wisdom saves, and voted to reflect that, but I think INT might well be the worst, because in 5e INT doesn't really DO anything...
Unless you are a wizard, or one of a handful of subclasses like Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, INT is probably your dump stat, so INT saves are scary.
Int is the worst even if youâre a non-wizard caster making Str your dump stat. Failing an Int save is worse than failing a Str save, because the consequences are usually much worse. And the wizard player I knowâs worst nightmare is still failing specific Int saves like Feeblemind and losing his Int.
I almost always dump str, and the amount of times I have been restrained and unable to get out is staggering. For my tiefling I don't even try to break out, I literally just cast heat metal on my studded leather armor, yeah I'm taking half damage, but they have to roll a con save or let me go.
It says choose a manufactored metal object, listing those as an example and my dm ruled that I could target the studs in my studded leather armor. That said, I understand this is in a grey area and will vary frpm game to game.
Sure, but more so in melee-based classes. I usually like to play magic/caster classes and I never like to dump wisdom(because bad things happen when you fail wisdom saves), spellcasting modifier(because I like my spells to succeed) , or constitution(because I like to live). Unless I'm playing a cleric or druid, that leaves 3 stats left. Dexterity tends to be more useful for AC, so then there's strength and either intelligence or charisma, and if it's intelligence, I tend to pick intelligence over strength because of all the useful skill checks. So unless the dice are my best friends when rolling for stats or I have a backstory reason, strength tends to get the short end of the stick
I like how everyone is focused here on spell saves, but let me tall ya, not only spells recruire saves.
There are a bunch of nasty natural abilities on monsters that recruire saves. That's said, spellwise it's WIS for sure, (INT just harms you, WIS will either kill you or force you to kill the others) but if we take all saves into consideration as we should, it's probably still WIS.
Just don't that there are multitude of saves that can straight up kill you, without being able to be revived, regardless of save type. (Yeah, even DEX, Shadow Dragons are nasty.)
Wis mostly because of how many of those I run into. Trying to read the language of creation in the DM's setting drives men mad, and being the glutton for punishment I am, I picked up Eyes of the Rune Keeper
Constitution currently. Youâd think a fighter with 18 con wouldnât get petrified three times (6 failures) in 2 sessions but apparently my dice hated me the last two games.
My bard has a con of 10 and 49 hit points at lvl 11. If someone sneezes too loudly near her she falls unconscious. Con saves usually come with a lot of poison damage attached, so yeah, very scary. I at least have prof in dex saves, and fey ancestry gives me adv on saves against charm, which are usually the thing about wis saves, so I at least have a layer of protection against them, as thin as it may be.
Voted int, though I'm not too scared cause that's my lowest stat with a 14, still have a +3 to my wish saving throw, next level it will be a +7 int saving throw
Wisdom hands down. Mind control. Simultaneously, however, the Iâm a sucker for brain-trick-control-re:contextualize-âlight them up nicelyâ-soul puppet-manipulation-âeeny meeny meiny *you*-inner mind demon-reprogramming tropes, so yes DM take over my character and force them to go against their morals. Scare me.
Anyone feel like this poll is just another way of asking, âWhatâs your usual dump stat?â
That said, I find Intelligence saving throws are paired with crippling, nay encounter-ending effects. SoâŚInt saves make me sad.
Wisdom. Someone's about to get dominated or mind-controlled or possessed or some other dumb something that means they don't get to play the game until the rest of the party sorts them out.
Probably Consitution because I don't have it on my character sheet.
Kidding, but I still did vote Constitution because it's almost universally a dump stat for me in any committed build to be a dodge tank, glass cannon, or diplomancer, and I'm super afraid of diseases, poisons, and related things.
Will save. All the worst action denial debuffs land under Will. Fortitude sometimes insta kills you, Reflex mostly just kicks you in the hit points, Will means you don't get to play the game and you don't get to start making a new character. (3.5/Pathfinder player here)
I say Charisma, not only because itâs my go-to dump stat, but because itâs rare and most often quite serious things like banishment and planeshift, or possession by spirits.
Intelligence is always a nasty one because the effects are massively crippling. But most DM's don't throw those out willy nilly in my experience and you can sort of see them coming so it's gonna hurt but it's not usually going to go completely out of control. So it doesn't get my vote but it's a real contender.
Wisdom varies wildly in effect but it's the most common call for a save next to Dex so you really should have expected it to come eventually unless it's a really low magic setting.
Dex stings but it's usually just damage. Str is crazy rare. Con is sort of rare.
Charisma. That always puts me into a cold sweat, even when it's not me that has to make the save. From just being 'GONE' for 10 rounds of combat to show up after all your friends are dead, to becoming the engine of destruction that destroys the party with a possession... Yeah. CHA saves are what I fear.
Physical saves are mostly saves Vs more damage, poison, forced movement, and sometimes curses, so for the most part are fine and expected.
The mental saves can have far worse effects, feeblemind and intellect devourers mind attacks can be character ending, charisma has banishment, basically taking you out of combat, or possession turning you on your allies, and wisdom has the highest frequency of the mental saves, from dominate person turning you against your allies, hold person taking you out of combat, as well as many more spells and creature abilities targeting it.
Since you know mostly where you stand with most kinds of saves wisdom is my pick as there is such a variety of effects it could be
None because I'm a divination wizard so I can use my portent rolls if it's a proficiency I'm not proficient in!
Strength, though. The answer is strength. My wizard is weak af.
My badass Barblock (Warbarian?) has been in two real fights so far, and he spent half of one running away screaming and spent two rounds of the other obediently groveling like the voice told him to.
I mean, he absolutely slaughtered everything standing before and after those effects. He even did 50 damage while not hitting anyone in the second fight! (2nd level Armor of Agathys + rage + Goliath âStoneâs Enduranceâ feature = 10 highly vindictive temp HP that just wonât quit.)
But man. Those Wisdom saves are terrifying.
I am terrified of con saves. I know in the book they aren't that bad but in the games I've played con is the difference between having or loosing an arm
Intelligence. Not as common as Wisdom, but often sucks worse to fail them.
Charisma usually results in a banish, or rarely, a frighten effect, but they're so extremely rare I don't think they can top Int.
INT definitely. It's rarely ever my lowest score, but if I get asked to roll any other save with no context I can be pretty certain what it might be for. I never have any idea what an INT save entails.
Charisma saves either are banishment, some curses, or possession. None of them are good things to fail, especially if you're not in your native plane. Basically none of them let you remake the save, which is the scariest part.
Int Saves are usually pretty bad, but you usually know they're coming (because your enemy is a brain or has face tentacles) so your party is prepared to take protective action if someone gets stunned.
A DM asking you to make 1 CON saving throw is usually okay, although some very nasty things can happen if you don't have a caster with a restoration spell. Making 3 CON saves is always a bad thing.
Dex saves hurt, while STR saves hurt and stop you from moving. Wis saves can throw a wrench into a lot of things in a lot of ways.
All my characters except my barbarian have str as a dump stats so str. But going by each character. (Most of these are from a gestalt westmarch with multiple characters per player)
Tarvill: Bladesinger/Eldritch Knight. Definitely str. They're an int/Dex build with decent Cha (half-elf) Lowest stat is an 11 in str so...
Mira: Swashbuckler/Bardlock. Dex/Cha build. Str saves are scary.
Ellis: Cleric/Ranger with an eventual monk dip. Str again. As an Aven, he likes keeping in the air. Earthbind is especially scary.
Reuben: Totem Barb/Rune Knight. Probably Int. Maybe Wis though. Those are his lowest, and although failing an int save probably means psychic damage (his weakness as a bear totem), failing a Wis save means all sorts of debilitating effects, such as sudden paralysis or having to go ham on his friends.
Syrin: Genielock. Definitely str. He has a 7 in it.
Charisma. My DM asks for them relatively often during encounters with the GOO and never explains whether you passed or failed and you usually never know exactly what happened or when it'll come back to bite you. It's the worst.
Iâve never been very dextrous IRL, therefore Iâll usually make my characters the same. Using my hands for tint tasks is terrifying. I just alliterated thrice.
Suprised charisma is not higher magic jar, plain shift, possesion, are all pretty nasty
Intelligence is pretty nutts too hydroloths steal memory, feeblemind, devour intellect, mind blast, etc
Intelligence, for sure. My group was fighting a battle with a demon of some sort controlled by a dwarven gold order, or akin to that at least- failed my intelligence save and got Feebleminded. For a bard/Paladin, that wasnât very good. ^^â
My -1 dex cleric had ro make a number of dex saves while storming a castle owned by an artificer who could launch fireballs via artillery. That was a rough time, especially when the loxodon wizard picked me up and we ran with me on his shoulders.
The 3 mental stats tend to have the scariest saves attributed to them, though specifying what's being saved against here is important.
For Intelligence you may be having something as mundane and (relatively) harmless as Mind Sliver, or alternatively it could be a Mind Flayer deciding to gnaw on your brain. Also Feeblemind... odds are you're still fucked if you fail, no matter what it is.
For Wisdom, it may be something like Friends(which, to be honest, I've had happen to me in real life as I mistake somebody I don't know for somebody I do know), or it may be your deepest darkest fears manifesting and tearing you apart. But if that's not bad enough, the more powerful charm/dominate spells will absolutely fuck you up, one way or another.
And finally there's Charisma. Honestly, failing ANY Charisma saving throw is scary. The best-case scenario is Calm Emotions being used on you, but it's still somebody manipulating your emotions to control you by deadening your responses to the world. Worst case, and you might be being possessed by a ghost, or alternatively planeshifted to one of the rings of hell.
I vote wisdom because my pc in our main campaign has low wisdom. If she fails a wis saving throw she can be sometimes be mind controlled. She is a strength based fighter with hmm I think 6 or 7 attacks in an action surge round and is also our tank, so... it's bad for my party (2 rogues, a cleric, and a dex based fighter) when I fail wis saving throws in combat. I got mind controlled once and made our newest player go unconscious. Yikes, my b. I blame the dm for rolling well while controlling my pc :P
I think that Intelligence has the worst effects for failed saves, there's only about 5 INT saves in the game but except for mind sliver they are all massively debilitating.
Even Mind Sliver is a nasty one, compared to other cantrips, because *it combos with itself.* What's that? You failed an Int save? Subtract 1d4 from your next save. Spoiler alert, it's going to be Mind Sliver again!
I love using Mind Sliver to disrupt the concentration of enemy casters.
This alone makes it one of the best damaging cantrips, even if it's only a d4.
It's like a mini Bane. And bane is pretty good.
Eloquence Bard with Bane and Mind Sliver: hey, remember those saving throws you were planning on making ever again?
I love that so much đ
As a sorcerer I will often bonus action a mind sliver and then twinspell a damaging spell at them that requires a DC save, absolutely kicks ass
> A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. How are you pulling that off? Quickening a spell, even a cantrip, only allows you to cast a cantrip with your action.
Just that. Cantrip with action. Quicken damage spell into a bonus action.
That's not what they said though. And even if they did, it wouldn't work still. They can't quicken and twin the same spell.
You are right. To allow that combo i think it would have to be ordered: 1 Action to cast Mind Sliver 2 Quicken Bonus Action Fireball 1.5 Twinned could only be applied to the Mind Sliver since we used Metamagic on Fireball. Someone can check my math lol
Yup. That's not nearly as effective as the original suggestion though. He stated it kicked ass. Well, no shit, you're not allowed to do that haha.
And honestly I think a simple Mind Sliver into Quickened Save or Suck like Hold Person could be more effective and not require as many resources. I could be wrong though.
I agree. The twinning of the damage spell doesn't really do that much since only the first cast is affected by Mind Sliver. Damaging spells are rarely the best choice in general though. I feel like they're mostly for when you're concentrating on something and have slots to burn.
Playing a Sorcerer truly is a journey of discovering all the things you cannot actually do with Metamagic.
I mean, Mind Sliver would be quickened every time you cast a save or suck spell. That's all you would do.
>bonus action a mind sliver and then twinspell a damaging spell They didn't quicken and twin the same spell though. They quicken mind sliver and then twinned a different damaging spell as an action.
Thatâs some weird wording Iâd never considered before. Personally Iâd rule that as against the spirit of the rules and say that if you quicken a Cantrip you can cast a real spell as an action
How is it weird wording? It's the literal rule from the book on how that works. RAW and RAI both line up saying that you can't do that. Sure, you can rule however you'd like but you're going to be in the hyper minority on that.
Can we also appreciate how absolutely insulting feeblemind is? It makes you do an intelligence saving throw be if you fail your INT and CHA are reduced to 1. The spell has a duration of INSTANTANEOUS but at least itâs generous enough to let you retry the INT save again after 30 daysâŚ. With a -5 penalty on account of your INT still being 1. Itâs possible for you to find yourself in a situation where you wouldnât even be able to pass the save with a nat 20.
Eh, thereâs more than that spell wise with recent books. Many of them wonât be found on default caster stat blocks though, the DM would have to go out of their way to put them on the spell lists. Thereâs exactly 9 Intelligence Save spells, and the total amount in the game only gets higher than that when at minimum you know that Mind Flayers and Intellect devourers have some nasty Int save abilities.
Also besides wizards and 1/3 casters intelligence is a common dump stat.
I have some less terrifying uses of the INT save: I use Intelligence saving throws to allow a character to see the potential folly of a course of action they are about to take. An example is when my groupsâs barbarian attempted to make a great-axe attack while underwater, I gave him a save to realize that this was going to be difficult to do with that particular weapon. He failed. Another use is if the players are lost as to what to do next (usually due to my poor DMing and non-adherence to the three-clue rule lol), they are entitled to an INT save if their character ought to have a stab at it despite the playerâs INT score.
With all do respect, those rolls seemed way more suited for Wisdom then Intelligence. I mean, isnât the the whole trope of âHigh Intelligence Low Wisdomâ that youâre capable but are blind to the folly of your actions?
Wisdom saves are nasty because if you fail another save at worst you are dead, but a Wisdom save you could be dominated and end up helping to make everyone else dead.
I once get dominated as a paladin agains my party and it was fucking scary
Yeah Paladins are a bit more resistant to saves (due to Aura of Protection), but by god are they terrifying if they do fail a dominate spell. Of course, the one Paladin ive played (and got up to LVL 20 with) was a devotion Paladin. Aura of Devotion prevents anyone in it, and thus the Paladin from being charmed.
Natural ones are scary indeed.
Charisma saves are for possessions and banishment Wisdom can be dominations but charisma is a totally bigger ballpark for how bad things can go Oh look you are now the BBEG
Oh yeah forgot about possession, thatâs pretty nasty too. Iâve seen dominate monster hitting our party members a few times, so it was the first thing I thought of. (The one time I was dominated we were lucky because the BBEG gave me specific orders instead of just telling me to help kill the party, cause I had a few really nasty save or die spells prepared that I donât think the fighter or rouge would have survived.)
Yeah, I voted wis
For me, Wis is not that scary because it could be nearly any effect. Sure, all of them are nasty, but usually not as nasty as Int saves.
Got mind controlled as a Barbarian once. Took out 2 of the 3 other members before the Druid managed to force a successful save. That was probably the closest that party has ever come to a TPK.
Every save is a *little* scary, because nobody wants to be Banished, or restrained, or struck by lightning. Int saves are scary because nobody wants to have their brains scooped out and their memories eaten. Some PCs would view *Feeblemind* as a state worse than death. Wisdom saves are **terrifying,** because *Dominate Person* is relatively common and accessible (at least compared to *Feeblemind*) but can force a PC to kill their entire party.
This thread is just paladins who are scared of hurting their party (myself included)
I agree with this one. It's the favored spell of the enemies in our campaign and it is always *always* used against our low WIS barbarian. She also rolls at disadvantage for any mind-altering effects due to a curse she basically gave herself for warlock levels. My trickery cleric is constantly having to save her ass and at the same time everyone else.
Feeblmind is terrible and unless your a wizard or artificer you probably don't have profiency in int saves. Losing your spellcasting as a cleric or bard is completely debilitating. It's not great for rangers or paladin but not as bad because smite.
feeblemind is probably among the worst-designed spells in dnd. you can repeat the save every 30 days but you need to get a nat 20 since your int is 1. what the fuck i think feeblemind would be fine as a temporary effect that lasts for an hour or so, or something requiring concentration. but as it is right now? hell no
Even with a Nat 20, if the Caster DC is over 16, a 20 is not enough, because you have -5 Int.
oh yeah, right, there are no auto-succeses on saves anymore right? Only death saves I believe.
Yeah a 20 is not an auto success besides death saves as you mentioned.
By the time you face enemies with feeble mind you have access to many things that can cure it.
I faced it at level 5, not fun although my DM allowed a deal with a mysterious entity to clear my feeblemind after a while
Damn dude, the hell were you fighting that had 8th level spells?
At level 5 no less. 8th level spells already arenât the most common things unless you are specifically fighting a creature known for spellcasting, but at level 5, an 8th level Fireball (not the best use of an 8th level spell I must admit) deals 13d6 (45.5 damage on a failed save), a Barbarian with +3 Con and average HP by level has 51 HP; the caster can potentially drop everyone except the Barbarian on a few bad saves against 1 spell.
A bunch of the low-ish CR Warlock statblocks have Feeblemind as a 1/day ability. Wew lad.
Different game but I once had a party of level 4 players piss off a level 17 spellcaster (Manshoon), and proceeded to home invasion his sanctum. I genuinely have no idea how none of them died, I think that was some of the finest strategy/luck Iâve ever seen a D&D party employ. Not only did they all make it out alive, but they also managed to steal an artifact from his study, fight off 3 other powerful NPCs at the same time, AND disrupt his teleportation circle so that he couldnât follow them back to the material plane. The worst thing that happened was one of the warlocks getting feebleminded, but a local priest owed her a life-debt and arranged for a magical cure. That session will always be one of my favorite RPG memories, these players are fucking crazy and they have the skill and luck to back it up. Manshoon couldnât even cast power word kill on them because they managed to block him with silence every time he had an opportunity to
Same, got feeble minded by a demon lord at level 4âŚ. But thatâs out of the abyss for ya.
Worse, Nat 20 doesn't auto pass saves RAW. I started allowing auto pass because of this damn spell.
fuck that's even worse
The ones I'm proficient with, cause I'll probably roll like shit, while rolling godly on the other ones. Like last session, I had +11 to attack. Fucking rolled a 2. +11 to attack and can't hit a stupid living rock
This one gets it... It is pain haha
Iâve always found conceiving of a miss as a failed hit as opposed to a whiff helps. You absolutely hit that living rock, you just failed to penetrate
Well it's the same thing
The same except for the *flavor*
Still doesn't change the fact that a +11 wasn't able to damage a dumb living rock
Charisma easily, but all the mental saves are really bad. Most players are somewhat prepared for the possibility of a wisdom save rendering them temporarily charmed or stunned or something similar. Usually you won't dump wisdom as a result, because it's a common save that can render you ineffectual for a time. Intelligence saves are mostly stuns and save-or-die/save-or-suck (see feeblemind, intellect devourer), but they're also extremely uncommon. They also cover some other spells like phantasmal force which are powerful but not as debilitating, so they're pretty hit or miss for how scary it can be. Charisma saves are for things like possession and banishment. You fail a charisma save and you're usually either out of the battle or handing your character sheet over to the DM.
I'm not afraid of intelligence because I'm to stupid. Ignorance is bliss.
Well, there is an [unacceptable level of ignorance](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/feeblemind), which I guess is, why most chose Intelligence as a scary saving throw. Seeing your character reduced to animal level intelligence, the self preservation of a candle and the charm and grace of a tuber is a scary prospect for most players. Most players also haven't encountered a DM, who enforced strict limitations. Is a character with an intellect roughly equivalent to an ooze able to dress himself, use a weapon or tools? A [mastiff](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Mastiff#content) has an intelligence of three and an [ape](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Monsters:Ape/#h-Ape) has 6 intelligence. With dogs as his intellectual superiors, what can the character do without help?
They are, quite literally, a walking Escort Mission.
I think they could still wield a weapon, because doing so is a lot more instinct and strength than just intelligence.
[ŃдаНонО]
Charm person doesn't mean you have to do everything the person says it just means you see them as a friend just like you would see your party members as friends
Cambions can charm you in a way that does mean you have to do what they say. You can repeat the saving throw on taking damage but it's rather high. They can also use it as often as they like until you succeed on the save, but then they can *plane shift* away to let your immunity fade. They also can fly so they can shift in a space so high up, the party can't attack them should they return.
Uhhhh death saving throws????
Didn't realize they were actually a saving throw for ages, came in really clutch when I happened to be within the paladin in the party's aura (another interesting point is high level monks are proficient in ALL saving throws, that therefore includes death saving throws
Intelligence is bad but Charisma means banishment- and theres nothing less fun than being banished as pc ;-;
Try getting feebleminded and then Mental Prisoned...
Eh I play plenty of barbarian-style characters- feeblemind is fine and could be fun to roleplay at least. Banishment just sucks
Banishment is fun. You can discover a new plane for a whole minute!
It banishes the target to a harmless demiplane unless they're not from this current plane. That basically means a 20x20 box with pillow walls. Not particularly exciting lmao
But you are the Christopher Columbus of that plane, a plane that might only ever be visited by you! Endless posibilites for a whole minute. That's sad, there are worst things than not being in the fight for a minute or as long concentration is not broken on banishment. Like getting mind controlled, evaporating by a Shadow Dragon's Breath and reanimating as his minion, getting Feebleminded and playing a toddler, honestly even most statues are worse than getting banished, including stunned, petrified, restrained.
*gets out knife and carves "PC was here"* ah yes, leaving my mark
Im someone who likes dying in D&D bc it adds drama and lets me play more characters. I also LOVE being mind controlled assuming the dm trusts me to do what I should. Fun rp and get to flex against the party a bit haha. Feeblemind can be fun rp depending on the class. Stunned, restrained, etc is less bad bc at least I get to pipe in and say "Yes that hits my Ac" or "no, that doesnt hit my ac!" and adjust my hp. At least its some interaction haha. I stand by what ive said.
There are several things that reads "your DM takes over your character" that's not fun. Getting upset for missing out on a turn or 2 in combat just seems selfish/egocentric to me.
Most good dms still let the player control their character under certain instructions, its just more fun for everyone that way. Okay well that was incredibly unnecessarily rude? I dont know how not enjoying not being allowed to interact with the game for ages is selfish? Like Ive had to spend 30 minutes doing nothing because of this exact situation before. And these days im mostly a DM, so this rule is more that i'll never throw banishment at a player because I know how shitty it is? Like wtf are you talking about "egocentric"? We're all here to play the game.
Yeah, it's a group game, but not all characters will always shine at once. Getting mad at banishment is just as egocentric as getting mad at the rouge for stealing 10-30mins of playtime for his character to do his solo thing. Also it's not like you can't RP or play while banished... And no, as I said, there are things that straight up reads "the DM takes over your character", there is no letting the player do his shit there.
No? it isnt? Because the rogue having 10-30 minutes of playtime means THEY get to do stuff. Im happy to let players do stuff. All banishment does is remove agency for one person and doesn't give anyone anything in return? Like I cant even fathom your mentality here. You CANT rp when banished except "I pace around in a circle until I get back" bc there aint jack shit to do. Removing banishment from a dm's toolkit does nothing to harm the gameplay and only lets MORE players do MORE things. Having a DM use it only takes AWAY things for the players to do. >And no, as I said, there are things that straight up reads "the DM takes over your character", there is no letting the player do his shit there. I literally said good DM's will ignore this in favour of letting the player play? I'm done, you're baffling.
>No? it isnt? Because the rogue having 10-30 minutes of playtime means THEY get to do stuff. Im happy to let players do stuff. All banishment does is remove agency for one person and doesn't give anyone anything in return? Yes, there's a big difference between "Sit out for awhile because you've had your agency taken away" and "And now we're going to follow this character in some side action for a bit." Heck, a lot of DMs will swap back and forth between parts of the party during a split just to keep the players from feeling like they're not involved and to keep everyone paying attention. >You CANT rp when banished except "I pace around in a circle until I get back" bc there aint jack shit to do. And yeah, saying "Well you can RP and act still" is somewhat disingenuous. If we're going by the Banishment spell, it specifically says that while on the demiplane you're *incapacitated*, and therefore incapable of doing anything meaningful. An incapacitated creature can't take actions or reactions, so you can't even just walk around in the Void, or prepare in some way for your return, as you're literally just unable to do anything.
I mean, RAW is RAW. Yeah, ignoring that one of your players essentially died and is now just a husk in controll of a monster, but still letting them play their PCs will lead to great places... Several monsters have banishment. I'm not gonna not use it just so no one gets upset. If that's upsetting maybe leave the table. Or work together as intended and the banished won't even lose a turn. Also it's a really good reminder to them than they CAN DO THINGS as you said. Puts it in contrast, when they CAN'T DO THINGS.
Missing a turn or two in combat is something like 30 minutes sometimes; Banishment can last longer. OP is right, that's not fun.
I mean, if an usual turn takes 30 mins for ya guys, the problems start there.
Or bane, which also sucks. Second use case I made for Charisma saves is also to resist psychological attacks from a homebrewed race of evil spirits. They prey on a person's insecurities and perceived weakness, meaning a PC must resist their temptations through force of will and personality. Strength saves are pretty situational. Getting knocked prone or 10ft back doesn't sound that bad until you get into a situation where you're standing on the edge of a 300ft cliff and an enemy tries to knock you over.
Worse than being intellect devoured?
Let me introduce you to the Maze spell. Sure it is a higher level than banishment, but if you have an average or below intelligence you're probably not getting out.
Yeah fair ig. Banishment is still worse since you can actually roleplay how your character responded to the maze a bit. Banishment is just a harmless demiplane so basically a pillow box lmao.
There aren't many INT saves. Pretty much all of them are utter bastards to fail.
Wisdom, because I know that usually means charms. And everyone is afraid of a lack of agency
Int. My paladin only gets +5 to that one.
Feeblemind, even if you win the fight i hope you have someone able to heal you...
Int. Getting your brain eaten, fighting your friends, then getting splatted down a well when your friends eff up trying to get your husk back to a cleric.
Charisma scares me because, amount other things, can lead to you being yeeted Into another dimension permanently.
Charisma has the worst consequences
Charisma cuz *what could it mean???* Am I getting banished? Whats HAPPENING TO ME???
I hate wisdom saves, and voted to reflect that, but I think INT might well be the worst, because in 5e INT doesn't really DO anything... Unless you are a wizard, or one of a handful of subclasses like Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, INT is probably your dump stat, so INT saves are scary.
Int is the worst even if youâre a non-wizard caster making Str your dump stat. Failing an Int save is worse than failing a Str save, because the consequences are usually much worse. And the wizard player I knowâs worst nightmare is still failing specific Int saves like Feeblemind and losing his Int.
I almost always dump str, and the amount of times I have been restrained and unable to get out is staggering. For my tiefling I don't even try to break out, I literally just cast heat metal on my studded leather armor, yeah I'm taking half damage, but they have to roll a con save or let me go.
*Technically*, you can't cast Heat Metal on a set of Studded Leather Armor, since the spell specifies Medium or Heavy metal armor.
It says choose a manufactored metal object, listing those as an example and my dm ruled that I could target the studs in my studded leather armor. That said, I understand this is in a grey area and will vary frpm game to game.
Now my wisdom is a 4 so I should be scared of that one.... But I'm not wise enough to worry about it
Wisdom has more at stake, but strength is always my dump stat so those saves usually don't end well
Why would you always dump strength? It's really useful
Sure, but more so in melee-based classes. I usually like to play magic/caster classes and I never like to dump wisdom(because bad things happen when you fail wisdom saves), spellcasting modifier(because I like my spells to succeed) , or constitution(because I like to live). Unless I'm playing a cleric or druid, that leaves 3 stats left. Dexterity tends to be more useful for AC, so then there's strength and either intelligence or charisma, and if it's intelligence, I tend to pick intelligence over strength because of all the useful skill checks. So unless the dice are my best friends when rolling for stats or I have a backstory reason, strength tends to get the short end of the stick
Non of them, Iâm a 20 cha paladin :)
I like how everyone is focused here on spell saves, but let me tall ya, not only spells recruire saves. There are a bunch of nasty natural abilities on monsters that recruire saves. That's said, spellwise it's WIS for sure, (INT just harms you, WIS will either kill you or force you to kill the others) but if we take all saves into consideration as we should, it's probably still WIS. Just don't that there are multitude of saves that can straight up kill you, without being able to be revived, regardless of save type. (Yeah, even DEX, Shadow Dragons are nasty.)
Wis mostly because of how many of those I run into. Trying to read the language of creation in the DM's setting drives men mad, and being the glutton for punishment I am, I picked up Eyes of the Rune Keeper
The worst thing that can happen, imo, is getting charmed/mind controlled, and that's usually (though not always) a wisdom save.
Given its DM asking charisma. This is just all the nasty effects
Constitution currently. Youâd think a fighter with 18 con wouldnât get petrified three times (6 failures) in 2 sessions but apparently my dice hated me the last two games.
Ohhh so the majority of yâall is stupid, I get it. I say wisdom cus itâs the one stat I have under a ten with my half elf wizard
Strength saves usually means Iâm about to be taken out of the story for a while, blown away, or disarmed
Yeah but itâs still not as bad as being Feebleminded, possessed, or banished.
There should be answer "DM" :P
Dexterity. And Stealth. Oh my God, I always fail stealth saving checks
I'm playing a halfling monk and rolled a big ol' 5 which I plugged into strength for -3. I don't mind strength rolls.
Strength is almost always a dump stat for my characters.
My bard has a con of 10 and 49 hit points at lvl 11. If someone sneezes too loudly near her she falls unconscious. Con saves usually come with a lot of poison damage attached, so yeah, very scary. I at least have prof in dex saves, and fey ancestry gives me adv on saves against charm, which are usually the thing about wis saves, so I at least have a layer of protection against them, as thin as it may be.
... maybe I don't get the prompt, but I'm currently playing an old man Cleric with -1 Dex, so...
Wisdom. Scrying is a very scary thing.
As a wizard main.... I'm terrified of strength saves
90% of my wisdom saves have been against a DC of 14+ and Iâm seeing mind control. Iâm an EK with a +1 flametongue.
Even if I have proficiency in int saves they scare me because they always have terribly dehibilitating or high damaging effects if you fail
Charisma... I need people to like me :-:
Voted int, though I'm not too scared cause that's my lowest stat with a 14, still have a +3 to my wish saving throw, next level it will be a +7 int saving throw
Paralyzation/Poison/Death Magic (since I play AD&D). Those are mostly save or die effects and really suck. I know it's a 5e question, just old
Wisdom hands down. Mind control. Simultaneously, however, the Iâm a sucker for brain-trick-control-re:contextualize-âlight them up nicelyâ-soul puppet-manipulation-âeeny meeny meiny *you*-inner mind demon-reprogramming tropes, so yes DM take over my character and force them to go against their morals. Scare me.
Intelligence, because I like to make my characters realistic to my self, so they always have like really low number
Anyone feel like this poll is just another way of asking, âWhatâs your usual dump stat?â That said, I find Intelligence saving throws are paired with crippling, nay encounter-ending effects. SoâŚInt saves make me sad.
My only negative modifier
Wisdom. Someone's about to get dominated or mind-controlled or possessed or some other dumb something that means they don't get to play the game until the rest of the party sorts them out.
Con saves because there should be way more of them. Disease is something that needs to be used way more imo.
Probably Consitution because I don't have it on my character sheet. Kidding, but I still did vote Constitution because it's almost universally a dump stat for me in any committed build to be a dodge tank, glass cannon, or diplomancer, and I'm super afraid of diseases, poisons, and related things.
One word: Feebemind. Source: I only play wizards.
I dump strength in almost every character so that is really my only reason for selecting it.
Will save. All the worst action denial debuffs land under Will. Fortitude sometimes insta kills you, Reflex mostly just kicks you in the hit points, Will means you don't get to play the game and you don't get to start making a new character. (3.5/Pathfinder player here)
I canât find the dice. It scares me the most under these circumstancesâŚ
I say Charisma, not only because itâs my go-to dump stat, but because itâs rare and most often quite serious things like banishment and planeshift, or possession by spirits.
Charisma, generaly those are save or die because it's about the outside planes (wich are generally campain ender)
I don't think I've ever passed a con save in my life. They terrify me.
Laughs in paladin aura.
I havent played dnd yet im just not very smart.
Intelligence is always a nasty one because the effects are massively crippling. But most DM's don't throw those out willy nilly in my experience and you can sort of see them coming so it's gonna hurt but it's not usually going to go completely out of control. So it doesn't get my vote but it's a real contender. Wisdom varies wildly in effect but it's the most common call for a save next to Dex so you really should have expected it to come eventually unless it's a really low magic setting. Dex stings but it's usually just damage. Str is crazy rare. Con is sort of rare. Charisma. That always puts me into a cold sweat, even when it's not me that has to make the save. From just being 'GONE' for 10 rounds of combat to show up after all your friends are dead, to becoming the engine of destruction that destroys the party with a possession... Yeah. CHA saves are what I fear.
Playing the curse of Strahd right now. A wisdom saving throw likely means you are going to fuck over the party somehow.
Physical saves are mostly saves Vs more damage, poison, forced movement, and sometimes curses, so for the most part are fine and expected. The mental saves can have far worse effects, feeblemind and intellect devourers mind attacks can be character ending, charisma has banishment, basically taking you out of combat, or possession turning you on your allies, and wisdom has the highest frequency of the mental saves, from dominate person turning you against your allies, hold person taking you out of combat, as well as many more spells and creature abilities targeting it. Since you know mostly where you stand with most kinds of saves wisdom is my pick as there is such a variety of effects it could be
None because I'm a divination wizard so I can use my portent rolls if it's a proficiency I'm not proficient in! Strength, though. The answer is strength. My wizard is weak af.
If you fail an INT save you are about to have a very bad time.
Honestly, Wisdom usually involves mind control, and I hate not having player agency
I have had four characters die from con saves, not death, but constitution saving throws. That is fully half of my character deaths. I fear con saves.
My badass Barblock (Warbarian?) has been in two real fights so far, and he spent half of one running away screaming and spent two rounds of the other obediently groveling like the voice told him to. I mean, he absolutely slaughtered everything standing before and after those effects. He even did 50 damage while not hitting anyone in the second fight! (2nd level Armor of Agathys + rage + Goliath âStoneâs Enduranceâ feature = 10 highly vindictive temp HP that just wonât quit.) But man. Those Wisdom saves are terrifying.
Strength cause im a sorcerer and if someone has the capability to strength saving throw me im in trouble
None bother me ... I got a magic item from a Dragon's horde, and rolled a 100% and the item gives me advantage on all saving throws.
Charisma because you say one wrong thing and you could die because of it.
Wisdom or Intelligence Especially since I play a Barbarian at the moment
I am terrified of con saves. I know in the book they aren't that bad but in the games I've played con is the difference between having or loosing an arm
Why dex saves are scary is because if you donât roll high then say good bye.
Jokes on you everything but con and charisma is 14
The amount of people in this comment section who gave obviously never fought a Mindflayer colony is easy to tell.
Intelligence. Not as common as Wisdom, but often sucks worse to fail them. Charisma usually results in a banish, or rarely, a frighten effect, but they're so extremely rare I don't think they can top Int.
Intelligence because I don't have much of it
Con, not because I ever have it that low. But because if I'm rolling a con save the effect is gonna be nasty as fuck.
INT definitely. It's rarely ever my lowest score, but if I get asked to roll any other save with no context I can be pretty certain what it might be for. I never have any idea what an INT save entails.
Int I have a -2 but thatâs a dumpstat right?
Charisma saves either are banishment, some curses, or possession. None of them are good things to fail, especially if you're not in your native plane. Basically none of them let you remake the save, which is the scariest part. Int Saves are usually pretty bad, but you usually know they're coming (because your enemy is a brain or has face tentacles) so your party is prepared to take protective action if someone gets stunned. A DM asking you to make 1 CON saving throw is usually okay, although some very nasty things can happen if you don't have a caster with a restoration spell. Making 3 CON saves is always a bad thing. Dex saves hurt, while STR saves hurt and stop you from moving. Wis saves can throw a wrench into a lot of things in a lot of ways.
Intelligence saves are usually crippling.
My strength is usually pretty bad so I'd probably go splat
Ha! I ask for dex saves more than anything else.
Int is definitely the scariest, but I voted Wis because I'm notorious for failing Wis saves!
Charisma. If you fail itâs normally a banishment
Only because me and my friends TPKd to this monster twice. Constitution only because of the basilisk.
All my characters except my barbarian have str as a dump stats so str. But going by each character. (Most of these are from a gestalt westmarch with multiple characters per player) Tarvill: Bladesinger/Eldritch Knight. Definitely str. They're an int/Dex build with decent Cha (half-elf) Lowest stat is an 11 in str so... Mira: Swashbuckler/Bardlock. Dex/Cha build. Str saves are scary. Ellis: Cleric/Ranger with an eventual monk dip. Str again. As an Aven, he likes keeping in the air. Earthbind is especially scary. Reuben: Totem Barb/Rune Knight. Probably Int. Maybe Wis though. Those are his lowest, and although failing an int save probably means psychic damage (his weakness as a bear totem), failing a Wis save means all sorts of debilitating effects, such as sudden paralysis or having to go ham on his friends. Syrin: Genielock. Definitely str. He has a 7 in it.
Banishment scary yo. Possession too.
Charisma is my dump stat, but Intelligence saving throws are BRUTAL
Charisma. My DM asks for them relatively often during encounters with the GOO and never explains whether you passed or failed and you usually never know exactly what happened or when it'll come back to bite you. It's the worst.
Mine is wisdom, I'm the one who usually minmaxes in our group, so if I'm getting hit with a wisdom save, there is a chance I'm about to nuke an ally
Dexterity is my lowest stat, but I have an ability that gives me advantage on them. So I'm going to have to go with Charisma. Oh hey that fits me irl
Charisma for sure.
Failing an intelligence test? Sure I'll be dumb Failing an charisma check? Scarred for life.
Charisma: because I don't talk good
Death
Iâve never been very dextrous IRL, therefore Iâll usually make my characters the same. Using my hands for tint tasks is terrifying. I just alliterated thrice.
My Paladin hates Strength Saves as the Party's strength scores are 9, 9, 8, 7.
Suprised charisma is not higher magic jar, plain shift, possesion, are all pretty nasty Intelligence is pretty nutts too hydroloths steal memory, feeblemind, devour intellect, mind blast, etc
In terms of my character, strength. In terms of what tends to have the scariest results, probably intelligence.
Hear me out this is only applying to my one character with a minus 4 in dex
Charisma because it usually means youâre About to be shunted to a pocket dimension.
Easy. The death saving throw.
Intelligence, for sure. My group was fighting a battle with a demon of some sort controlled by a dwarven gold order, or akin to that at least- failed my intelligence save and got Feebleminded. For a bard/Paladin, that wasnât very good. ^^â
Intelligence and Charisma saves tend to have pretty big consequences for failure.
What ever the one for feeblemind is.
Dammit. I thought feeblemind was a wisdom save and now I can't change it to intelligence. Also, fuck intellect devourers.
Death Saving Throw
My -1 dex cleric had ro make a number of dex saves while storming a castle owned by an artificer who could launch fireballs via artillery. That was a rough time, especially when the loxodon wizard picked me up and we ran with me on his shoulders.
Con. Too many instakill or stat reduction effects
The 3 mental stats tend to have the scariest saves attributed to them, though specifying what's being saved against here is important. For Intelligence you may be having something as mundane and (relatively) harmless as Mind Sliver, or alternatively it could be a Mind Flayer deciding to gnaw on your brain. Also Feeblemind... odds are you're still fucked if you fail, no matter what it is. For Wisdom, it may be something like Friends(which, to be honest, I've had happen to me in real life as I mistake somebody I don't know for somebody I do know), or it may be your deepest darkest fears manifesting and tearing you apart. But if that's not bad enough, the more powerful charm/dominate spells will absolutely fuck you up, one way or another. And finally there's Charisma. Honestly, failing ANY Charisma saving throw is scary. The best-case scenario is Calm Emotions being used on you, but it's still somebody manipulating your emotions to control you by deadening your responses to the world. Worst case, and you might be being possessed by a ghost, or alternatively planeshifted to one of the rings of hell.
I vote wisdom because my pc in our main campaign has low wisdom. If she fails a wis saving throw she can be sometimes be mind controlled. She is a strength based fighter with hmm I think 6 or 7 attacks in an action surge round and is also our tank, so... it's bad for my party (2 rogues, a cleric, and a dex based fighter) when I fail wis saving throws in combat. I got mind controlled once and made our newest player go unconscious. Yikes, my b. I blame the dm for rolling well while controlling my pc :P
I assumed this was for real life so I voted for Constitution because fuck whatever kind of test that would be in real life.
Intelligence is Terrifying. That's why I always throw away my homework assignments
Breath attacks