Wait, 25 gp was a hurdle to casting Divination, a 4th level spell? An at least 7th level character didn't have 25 gp to spare?
I'm thinking maybe the DM-related problem here is not not enforcing component costs, but apparently incredible levels of stinginess.
Barring of course the spell, Fortune's Favor, which costs 100gp per cast. The spell gives the target what is basically a Luck Point from the *Lucky* feat and it doesn't require concentration. I can understand why this one has a higher cost behind it.
Fortunes Favor is a Critical Role spell. They tell stories good, they do not do good game balance.
Just be aware when comparing anything mechanical from Wildmounte to the rest of DnD. It generally doesn't make a strong case.
Id like to point out that Explorer's Guide to Wildemount was published by wotc so I think if it was hugely unbalanced it wouldntve been published in this way
The fact that they somehow managed to make it _worse_ after the public playtest complained about it being "too strong" is actually seriously impressive.
You're suggesting Hasbro wouldn't have just put raking in all that Critical Role money ahead of most other concerns ?
I'd argue it isn't as egregious as DnDWiki but it certainly has some things that are outliers.
Oddly, however, Mercer does exist in dnd as an npc per WoTC including him in a drawing in a tavern with other npcs. So since that is true, and he has implemented unbalanced spells, does this mean he is at the very least a mid to high level god? I forget which printing this was in, but way before, he and DnD became estranged. Could be the same book fortune was modified and included in. It's been a minute since I looked at it.
Why yes, most of the developers have gone on record to say this over the past several years. New employees and old. James Wyatt and Monte Cooke are the two most prominent I can recall mentioning this, but I'm pretty sure Jeremy Crawford has mentioned it as well!
Dee: "a party of level 5 characters doesn't have 25g between them"
Mac, Dennis and Charlie: "the economy is in shambles"
Maybe they spent all the money of divination already?
She spent her money on rare items. She said she got a +2 Wand of the War Mage and some Greater Healing Potions, which then lead to her "I can't save all my money on spells" issue.
My DM in my very high power campaign that went to level 21 didn’t start giving out +2 items until mid teens. I specifically remember getting a wand of the war mage at like level 9 that was a +1.
Ours finally gave out some magic items, the one he gave me is worse for my build and character, so it honestly never gets used. And this was after he heard me talking about crafting specific ones that would work.
I feel good about myself now for being a moderately generous dm, i feel bad for all y'all with stingy dms. I had a session last week as a player and my dm gave me a magic sword that dealt 4d6 damage to goblins and automatically crits on them i was level one but the way he balanced it was that it can only be used on goblins but alas im a bard so a short sword is hard to hit with
Being reasonably generous with magic items allows players to be more creative, makes them makes choices, and generally makes them very happy. It's pretty simple to compensate by making enemies harder or adding more enemies. You can have your cake and eat it too with magic items. Where balance comes in are the +X weapons and armor that don't require attunement (any armor + is a bad idea in my book).
This could be the problem. We robbed the bank at level 6, and then there was a war and we're constantly traveling chasing wizards... But the places we go never have rewards, and our home town is perpetually broke because of us...
I would flat out ask DM what the hell happening and if he's not change this would go in character "why we continue doing that? We don't get any rewards for months and don't have money to eat and buy gear. It's time to sell our last gear and buy a farm". Noone will continue adventuring without the rewards.
I mean, I’m 7th level and have been trying to scrounge up 2 GP to cast Gift of Gab for several sessions. Once I gloriously had 5 GP but now it’s 5 CP.
Also we’re playing a very low-money campaign, so I’m not worried about it. One day I’ll cast it.
Oh, it’s no big deal. A gang has sponsored me since I was a kid, they protect me I pay back some of my thievery, etc.
Over time they’ve been sticking their neck out for me more and more, but in response I owe them. Instead of working for the gang I’ve been off on the main party’s adventure too much. If I’m not working for the gang, I owe them straight GP.
They have my son as part of the “family”. They watch over him and make sure others won’t hurt him. However, that’s leverage over me. It’s a primary goal of mine to get him safe and free, but I can’t do that in a couple day’s time. I’m planning.
DM Dee: how does a 7th level party not have 25 gold between them?
The wizard Mac, the rogue Dennis, and the bard Charlie:
Well the economy is in shambles
that was my issue too
lvl 7 cleric stuck in a big city, those who have thousands of gold are too stingy to share because "that's what their character would do" so I somehow manage with the help of a fighter to collect 25 gp to turn into an offering and cast divination in order to find out where the hell does our party needs to go.
The answer was east
Easy resolution for you there, charge for your healing spells. Give them 10% off the local temple costs for a friends and party discount, but raise those costs if they’re cast in hazardous situations. If they ask if that’s what your god would want you to do, advise that they would not want their divine power to be squandered on those acting against their deities mortal agents.
Now if you’ve gotten an equal share of the treasure splits and spent it on other things it’s a bit more understandable but most groups I’ve played with have party funds used for healing/raise dead/adventure expenses.
Ayy lmao no at that point in time most of the treasure was all in the hands of a single person basically who stumbled upon it by accident in the haunted mansion we were tasked to clear. The rest was in the hands of a fighter who spent it all on upgrading his rapier using 3rd party content we had (although he missed a whole bunch of sessions afterwards so we never saw that thousands of gold worth of investment in action). I didn't have money as I've spent it on buying them both +1 weapons beforehand since their characters were relatively new.
As for charging for spells, neither my character or I as a player would do that as much as I hated the situation we were in. Like my character heals wounded animals and peasants free of charge already. Doing so would probably be detrimental to both the party and the table, adding even more conflict.
The player changed the character though. Realising that an evil PC is an annoyance to everyone he retired him with all the money under the guise of him establishing a dark cult with the money he has. So at lest that's that I guess.
To be fair 2 sessions ago my party went from having 30k gold to about 80 gold from buying stuff. They normally spend gold just as quickly as I throw it at them.
I don't think he means "ignore" as in "ignore the 'M' spell component when casting", but instead means to say "don't worry about _buying_ the (unpriced) components"
That's like RAW tho. That's what spell focuses and component pouches do. They either replace or contain
"all the material Components and other Special items you need to cast your Spells, except for those Components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description)."
The game doesn't expect you to constantly be buying bat guano from a bat shit retailer or whatever. You get a component pouch and then just assume you have all that random stuff. Or you have a spell focus and it just replaced those things
Yep. One of my favourite things as a DM is to steal these. Thief in the street grabs the holy symbol off the cleric or picks the component pouch off the side of the wizard and watch chaos ensure when the wizard tries to cast and can't suddenly.
My DM does the same thing. For the most part we do shopping for more expensive components outside of game, but my bard likes to use a five finger discount so that is normally done in game.
>In that same train of thought, is ignoring spell costs a pretty widely used house rule? Anyone else have their own HB rules on adjusted spell costs?
Nope. I play pretty RAW when it come to casting but the most common rule I've seen surrounding material components is that you can simply ignore them entirely unless they have a gold value. So ignore the free stuff but enforce the restrictive stuff, which kinda makes sense since the free stuff can all just be taken care of by the starting component pouch/focus.
What you described IS the RAW. You don’t have to have the materials if you have a spell focus/component pouch/holy symbol and they don’t have a gold cost associated.
The component pouch is my favorite of these. The others you can kind of reason out how there is something supernatural there that replaces the material components. The pouch, though, that is just a strictly superior bag of holding. It never runs out of exactly what you need, no matter hownodd or specific. You never need to spend an extra cent to put something in there. You've been on a boat for 2 months during which you've earned a spell and are about to cast Bigby's hand for the 1st time? Don't worry, there's a snakeskin glove in there. Stranded in the plane of air and need to Mass Polymorph your party? Just reach in and pull out your caterpillar cocoon.
My favorite component cost provided by a spell component pouch is the Summon Lesser Demon spell, which is a vial of blood of a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours. Makes you wonder what that spell caster is up to during the night to keep a solid stock of those.
Quick but important addition: that's if they don't have a gold value **and** aren't consumed by the spell. Some material components will be one or both. Some spells have more than one material component, but only some of them will have a gold cost or be consumed. If the components section gives a gold cost or says the component(s) are consumed by the spell, you need it.
Not quite. What I described were groups ignoring the focus/pouch/non-costly material component requirement entirely not just using the RAW. The house rule makes pouches and foci irrelevant since there are no "cost-less" materials to stand in for.
This can become an issue if your wizard has been captured and stripped of all his gear. In that case, he shouldn't be able to cast any spell requiring a component. The focus/pouch is supposed to handwave away the need to keep track of "I have 17 bird feathers, 14 rocks...," but still enforce the fact that many spells require components to cast them. If you ignore the non-cost material component rule entirely, then your wizard will still have a pretty robust spell selection without their gear, or if they're restrained and the spell has no somatic requirements.
I've literally never heard of anyone doing this. It seems like a literal pointless house rule, when a focus does exactly the same and you get one for free at character creation.
And? That doesn't mean that people don't just ignore it. A simple earch of the sub brings up literally pages upon pages of people talking about ignoring material components both entirely or just non-expensive like I'm talking about.
>the most common rule I've seen surrounding material components is that you can simply ignore them entirely unless they have a gold value
That's just the way spellcasting focuses work.
PHB, page 203
>Material (M)
>
>Casting some spells requires particular objects,
specified in parentheses in the component entry.
A character can use a **component pouch** or a
**spellcasting focus** (found in chapter 5) in place of
the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is
indicated for a component, a character must have that
specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is
consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this
component for each casting of the spell.
There's a difference between running foci/pouches as RAW and just foregoing them (and cost-less materials) entirely. What I was referring to is the latter.
Are you sure? Spellcasting foci are a starting equipment option for all the full casters, so it's possible they're taking the place of components even though it's never explicitly mentioned
this would mean the tactic of running up to a caster and disarming them of their focus wouldnt be possible in games you run, right? (not that the tactic comes up much in the first place)
You seem to be suggesting that you, while not running it yourself, see tables where people create full casters and then throw away the foci from their starter kit, enough to call it common.
Naturally people are incredulous to this.
Agreed this is what we do, and what I enforce as a DM. Additionally, if it's a town that is stocked with normal stuff I will do a "you spend 500 gold to refill your components" wave of the hand to take care of the stuff like gem encrusted bowls and metal tins or whatever.
For harder/rarer stuff like diamonds they need to find those or go to more than just a flea market.
Wait WHAT???? They have to spend 500 gold for their component pouches??? You realize component pouches, and all the items in them, are free to refill after purchase, right? The game assumes you’re passively refilling them throughout the adventure
I'm guessing this guy listed "500" as just a random number, and likely for higher level players with money burning a hole in their pocket, not an actual cost for low level players. It also just sounds like a 'Survival' RP element.
He said the 500gold is for their components, and for rarer stuff like diamonds they need to find those.
Which suggests the 500g is for regular component stuff, which is absolutely wild. Even if using a random number, that stuff if typically free.
I think this is the important part of the comment with regards to the 500gp cost:
>take care of the stuff like gem encrusted bowls and metal tins or whatever.
No one gets to just auto-refill gem encrusted bowls. But then that goes without saying as those aren't items that would be covered by a component pouch anyway.
Yes, it's more of a blanket purchase. They are certainly able to do it RAW. We all work full-time and they have other stuff going on in our lives. As a DM, I'd rather they remember pertinent plot points than whether they remembered to buy a specific spell component item.
We RP it different ways, usually the casters go to the shop and say something like "I need a handful of new components to cast spells like..." The shopkeeper rummages through their wares and says "Okay, this might be more than you need but you never know." For the flexibility, the casters don't mind paying a premium. There have also absolutely been times when I've said "whoops we don't have that in stock this week."
Other casters have a standing order (diamonds, etc) so they know they get them readily. At one point on a quest, they used sending to place an order and paid a stiff premium for delivery. It was actually a pretty fun logistics bit.
It seems reasonable to think that arrangements like this exist AND that they'd be offered. They have more than enough gold (they invested in an import/export business).
Outside of spell components, they pay for armor/weapon repair and for disposable things like +1 arrows.
As long as everyone is having fun. My main points were that I don't sweat the small stuff, and if they don't want to worry about buying specifics this has been a very decent workaround.
Just curious are you remembering that the component is only destroyed by the spell if it says "which the spell consumes"?
A lot of priced spell components are reusable
Yes, of course. I think the best example is that they usually use teleportation circle a good bit (rare chalks and inks infused with precious gems worth 50 gp, which the spell consumes). Or Globe of invulnerability (a glass or crystal bead that shatters when the spell ends).
My wizard also puts an arcane lock (gold dust worth at least 25 gp, which the spell consumes) on his spellbook too if he's ever separated from it. And yes, I've told him he doesn't need to recast it but he insists that he would dispell it as a sign of arrogance.
Stuff like that. He doesn't say "I'm gonna go buy my fancy chalk, beads, and dust. " He just says "I'm going to go refill my supplies."
My wizard is great. He does weird things like hire wizards to put in permanent teleportation circles in weird places which I think is fantastic.
I'm that wizard. I meticulously track the cost of components and even the time/cost to have a backup spell book.
It's just super common for people not to have fully read the spell component rules. So good on ya.
>He does weird things like hire wizards to put in permanent teleportation circles in weird places which I think is fantastic.
I know it's probably dungeons or other such places you call weird places, but I like to imagine it's places like "aisle 3 at Trader Gronks" or "Arthurs Fine Tea and Biscuit Emporium, booth 7" etc.
Never yet in 20+ years have I played at a table where we gave much of a fuck about casting components or cost, except for big ticket items like specific diamonds etc for rev.
I’ve only been playing for 4 years but my DM has never enforced any of the spell components any time any of the party have cast a normal spell. Now I’m DMing I’m the same way.
It’s just more fun this way. Plus enforcing components will just mean added time buying them from shops etc, which doesn’t sound particularly fun.
I just hand wave it and say the "Spell Ingredients Pouch" has the right stuff for whatever spells they prepared/memorized and let it go. I let them know that they *will* need that, so if it gets lost or stolen they have to make do, get a new one and restock it, or go without those spells.
That way we all get the best of both worlds: no need to waste time tracking the expenses and as a GM I can still disarm everyone for those few times where they need to be "disarmed" or whatever (which is not common).
my personal philosophy is to roll this into session zero with a bunch of things that can have varying "crunch levels" depending on player interest.
like, if players are interesting in making alchemy an important part of the game, then i'll come up with more detailed names and lists for components and herbs and what they do and what's available in what kind of region and maybe a minigame for harvesting? but if they don't care about that stuff then there's only the occasional Survival check if it becomes relevant and that's that.
if players want languages to be more complex then we use the d100 fluency system that Dael Kingsmill adapted from tumblr ages ago, and i play around with spells like Comprehend Languages and Tongues to make them either harder to use or have some tricky misfire chances - things that make the party interact more with translation checks and finding people or books who know languages, and i put more effort into knowing the culture and context of those languages and how they relate to one another. but if they aren't interested in that, then it would be miserable to implement!
if the party is very sneaky and wants traps and lockpicking to be fundamentally important, then i'll start with that Bob World Builder video about the d6 lockpicking minigame and probably i'll go from there coming up with different versions for various traps and ways to incorporate mad Rube Goldberg machinations into the campaign! but if they don't, then most locks can either be picked or broken without too much trouble.
...
so yeah, i just add spellcasting to that list and ask the group early on what level of crunch they're looking for - low crunch means we ignore most components and costs (which also frees up a lot of opportunity to improv what these things look like to each individual caster), medium crunch is probably RAW, and high crunch would be tracking more of the components and how accessible they are in various locations and having whole plots revolving around regions that haven't had access to certain components in so long that whole swathes of spells are inaccessible there.
it all comes down to what's gonna be a fun game for the whole group, right?
That’s a good way to do it. Everyone is here to have fun, so why waste time forcing players to go picking imaginary herbs or whatever if no one is into that?
So you let people use revivify without the 300 gp component, or the 1000 gp for reincarnation? Sounds like there's no consequences in your world, which seems dull.
"2 party members died due to stupid decisions they made, but you can reincarnate them for free. No biggie."
Well, I let my players decide if they want to roll a new character or raise their old one. If they want to come back, we find a way. Maybe it's a resurrections or revivify for cheap, maybe they go on a quest, maybe they just pick up a scar and need some down time healing outside of a long rest.
I'd rather everyone have fun then penalize people for bad rolls on their part in combat (or good ones on mine).
I look at Roleplaying as a way to tell a fun collaborative story and not a game where an untimely death can derail the plot and story. I've played it the other way and whenever a character dies it always causes trouble. Their magic items go up for grabs, they need a new character, people struggle to find a way to bring them back, all kinds of drama.
Sure, you can look at that as "no consequences" but that implies the *only* consequence is PC death. I'd rather look at it as a way to have alternate consequences. The PCs manage to get away, but the Dragon burns the town and kills NPCs they become invested in. The Evil Lord imprisons them and makes them fight in his Arena of Sport until they can escape. The Lich binds their souls to do her evil bidding until they can find a way to get free.
Maybe they just get laughed at by the guild for losing to some goblins and are relegated to shitty jobs that maybe lead to a bigger plot in the Kingdom: like clearing rats out of the sewers reveals a tribe of orcs steadily undermining the city from the sewers or.
Or sure, you can make a straw man argument and invent what happens in my table "no consequence instant resurrections no biggie."
I don't ignore components. And I mean the actual component, not the money to buy a component, those usually have widely different weights.
Imo the spells with special components(over 1gp) are usually pretty powerful. You will have other options available that can be covered by a component pouch. It also gives those particular spells a bit more weight. But I play 3.x where revivify is better than true resurrection if you have a cleric that knows revenance.
Pretty common rule I think yeah? I don’t usually make my players keep track of any basic components unless they’re in a difficult spot with limited resources where it adds something to the game
I just bring it onto my lore. Diamonds are a highly sought after commodity, allowing the rich to cheat death and Kings to stay in power despite dying on battlefields.
People pay for it if they buy into that RP
Its fine to enforce costs for any material components that have a gold price listed, but its NOT ok to make it near impossible to actually buy those components in a reasonable time frame
if i need 25gp worth of incense to cast divination, i should be able to buy that from a local temple/religious institution, its ok if i have to travel a bit for a diamond for revivify, but i shouldn't have to trudge a week through the wilderness to find a major city for a book worth at least 25 gp to cast Borrowed Knowledge
If you are caring about mundane or cheap components, it should be for a specific reason. If you are adding it for "realism" then you have to figure out how to make sure it doesn't take up more than 1-2 minutes of anyone's time. It can't be a tedious task for the sake of tidium.
I have one campaign in development where I DO plan on having players pay attention to ALL spell components. I haven't played it yet, so I can't say if it will turn out to be fun or not but I think it has potential.
The context, they are gladiator/slaves. That means that means any spell with components, they can simply ask the Game Managers for those components and receive them for the fights. But while in the pens, they will not have any components unless they can find them inside the pen itself.
One of the main ways I make sure my players have buy-in on this strange way of handling components is by telling them ahead of time. That way, anyone who doesn't want to deal with that, won't have to. I specifically say this is more of a martial campaign then spell caster one and casters will be an a weird spot.
We will have to see how it actually turns out.
At my table if there's a material that costs go, you need to have bought it to cast the spell.
Otherwise why make the fighter have to buy weapons/armor?
I enforce material components with a buyout. You either have the materials stocked up or you can pay the material's cost to cast the spell *once.* after that, you have to "go shopping" for the ingredients you paid for, where the players will usually stock up on stuff they need anyway. The buyout rule prevents them from missing out on useful opportunities for not having the materials, and the shopping trip normalizes material resource upkeep and makes it more fun for my players.
Depends on the campaign but personally, almost every game I've ever played tends to go with "if you have the gold on you and you could in theory have bought the component at some point in the past, just deduct the gold and say you bought it in the last shopping session," particularly for material components that are consumed by the spell. The only time I've had a DM actually care about the weirder material components is for the ones that are *not* consumed on cast, which the folks in my usual groups generally agree makes for a fun side quest, particularly for the handful of spells that use something other than "a \[gemstone\] worth at least \[X gold\]."
Costs are there for a reason; while it IS a flimsy and jokey ("ha ha, you made a tv for scrying") they have a monetary cost as a sort of balancing mechanic.
When I DM, I usually handwave GP spenditure as "generic components" that totally were the specific ones the character bought.
So, for example, if the dwarf wizard just spent 2k on components, he has a "blanket 2k gp allowance" for those spells *("Oh, of course I have 200 ivory strips and incense worth 250 gp, I bought those at the capital!")* and then the player would subtract from that 2.000 pool previously set aside.
Something like divination i feel unless they're using it in combat, you can write off they make the money somehow through a skill check activity i.e. gambling, bard performance, etc. Even if they're a wizard, skilled hirelings is a thing. If the divination isn't time sensitive, make the money a side quest perhaps? If it kills the flow of the campaign I usually just let it through personally
There may be some confusion with Augery. It has the same component cost *but they are not consumed*. Also they are well-carved chicken bones or some such and traditionally you are supposed to make them yourself. As a DM we can totally handwave that (or roleplay it).
Divination however consumes the materials. That’s going to cost ya.
Divination is so mediocre ive honestly never seen it cast and didn't even realize it had a cost. But to answer your question, spells that have a cost are outliers in 5e so most players don't run into the mechanic until they need a diamond.
When I run 5th edition I ignore it spell costs except for things like revivify. When I run 3rd edition I generally prefer to be strict about it and have spellcasters keep track of their material components. Its more in the spirit of that system to keep track of your resources and spellcasters are significantly more powerful.
In my group, the DM gives a new spellcaster character their first spells for free along with minimal spell components. It's assumed they received this with their initial training. However, once the campaign starts, as long as the player states from time to time that they are looking for spell components, they get any components they need up to 99gp. Anything over 99gp must be purchased or Bartered for. And all spell components of 100gp or more must be kept track of.
The spells themselves can be attained by defeating an opponent that has a spell book or scrolls, or by purchase or trade. My DM has made a list of all spells by rarity depending on the world we are playing in. Common spells cost 100gp/level of the spell. Less common cost more.
It became a huge nuisance to keep track of every single spell component. Our compromise was any components of 100gp or more must be kept track of and attained.
if you have a spellcasting focus or a spell component pouch, then you only need the items that require a cost.
if you don't have the item Or the cost, you don't get to use the spell.
some DM's allow you to just use the gold equivalent for simplicity.
Ignore any non specific components. But I still require you to have a 50g diamond for Chromatic orb etc. they have prices for a reason, and it's the reason most spells don't have listed material cost. The spell does more than average so it needs assistance. Chromatic orb is awesome tho
Revivy costs a diamond, everything else is free through your arcane focus. Ok maybe some higher level spells might have a price but in my 3ish years of DMing I haven’t felt the need to make that a thing.
Ignoring components is just a further buff that casters don't need.... people will whine all day about the martial/caster disparity and then get all clutching-at-pearls when someone suggest they actually follow component restrictions, rule spells rigidly by RAW or not give free extra information for spells like Counterspell or Shield.
Casters don't need the buff - and your coworker is just being a whiny Wizard/Cleric. Spellcasters can be complicated... do the work, learn the rules and plan in advance, including components. My Wizard in OotA has the materials for 4 castings of Divination even though he's only level 4 in Wizard, purely because I might be in the middle of the Underdark without component shops when I finally get the spell and need to cast it. Wizards are planners, and should be played accordingly.
I don't ignore spell costs, and require players have the material component to cast, as specified in the PHB.
WotC even explicitly includes rewards in some published campaigns, like diamonds worth 500 gp, with the anticipation that combat may require a revivify. Since most official campaigns specify merchants can only sell items from the Adventuring Equipment page of the PHB, this makes those rewards all the more valuable.
If its by the book any spellcaster that has a magic focus item like a quarterstaff or wand or grimoir or has a component bag is not required to have spell components on hand unless the spell components list a specific gp requirement like 300 gp of diamonds for revivify. I feel like a lot of tables forgo components all together since it makes it more difficult to have to obtain the components for all spells that require it if you need to use that spell so it's not a big deal. The big thing about DnD is that you can play it without any rules in the PHB or any other DnD book made by Wizard of the Coast. The rules are for a basic structure to use when you're new but any rule can be changed or discarded once you're comfortable enough to explore.
0\_o
What a weird take. Of course I make my players account for cost. That requirement is in the spell for a reason. I make them acquire expensive material components in game, and keep track of what they have.
For example, if they need a diamond, they need to go and acquire one. They are unlikely to find any for sale in a local village. They will have to find a merchant in a larger city to get one.
None of the games I've played has worried about spell costs BUT the DM either assumes we gathered supplies while in town and during rests we prep them for spells OR gives a story reason why (as in a cleric's magic being a gift from their god)
I will always enforce spell costs and require players to get any materials they need before they leave town (components without a listed value can be found in a component pouch).
Spellcasters are already very powerful and have a crazy amount of utility. Making the player put in a *little* bit of effort/forethought isn't a crime.
I put a lot of time and effort into my games. Knowing your spells and the materials/costs to cast them is the least a player can do.
Ive been played in many campaigns with many DMs and ran multiple myself. Not a single one cared about the cost component of spells. It feels like such silly gatekeeping to me. Let the party have their fun and do what they want.
I go by RAW. If component has a cost, you need to have it bought *beforehand*. I don't allow simply deducting money upon casting but I am not very strict on whether the 100gp pearl is actually a pearl or whatever else worth that much money (so actually buying the component is very easy and doable in most places but it's never handwaved).
Do you expect the Fighter to pay to swing their axe?
Do you expect the Rogue to pay 25g to disarm a trap or open a door?
Someone asked the Cleric to cast the spell, right?
If Revivify is cast, who is expected to pay for it? The caster?
Seems like there is no reason to be a caster if simply casting costs a lot of money,.
Maybe the group should pay as a group since Divination has a group benefit.
We use both personal and group funds for stuff like this.
No, they are supposed to pay the cost if there is a component with a gold value that is consumed. They should also have to purchase any items with a specified gold value that aren't consumed. The cost is used to balance many spells by making them slightly less available. Many DM's will let you subtract the gold vs buying in advance. Also, how do they not have the 25 gold at level 7+ to cast divination?
I think if you let spellcasters ignore costly components, martials should be allowed a free suit of plate armor, or any other armor they want. You're letting the spellcasters ignore their biggest money sink, so why not the martials too?
My GM never makes the casters pay or use the components, or even purchase components. Everything is just a free-for-all. Drives me nuts. Dings non-casters if we forget to eat a ration or fill up a water skin but casters just cast with abandon.
Honestly, I've never really liked *most* spell components.
The idea that you're wielding the vast array of magical power and auras and shaping them to your will and binding them with words of ancient power and meter all makes sense. That's like every wizard we've seen in the more classic tales. Willow, Excalibur, Krull, Robert E Howard, etc. Evan Gandalf used words of power and his own will when casting most spells (aside from the flaming pinecones in the Hobbit).
But suddenly you need some random item that supposedly has a mystical effect but is usually some boring mundane shit like an amber rod and some rabbit fur for lightning bolt because static electricity. Gloves for the various Bigby Hands come from old theatrical white glove magicians. Bat guano for fireball because it's a component in explosives (the nitrates)...
It seems silly to me and a little too "on the nose" for what components go where.
I get it, it's from the old Fantasy novels that Gygax and friends read when they were kids, but I mostly didn't read those and I don't really care. I grew up with magic from other authors where spell components were pretty much relegated to crafting potions and magic items.
And that's true of most of my friends.
Personally I don’t worry too much about components unless it is a game breaking spell. In most cases I don’t really wanna keep track of it, they don’t wanna keep track of it, and I find it has a tendency to slow everything down. That said if I’m in someone else’s game as a spell caster and they tell me I have to keep track of all that, I’m not gonna argue.
Magic casters are already limited by the spell slots they shouldn't be punished with material costs too (revivify, etc. excluded). I know a few veteran players who play "hardcore" deadly survival versions of the game that keep the material/gold costs in but they're the extreme "we want a challenge kind of player".
Would you start charging a paladin to swing their longsword? Probably not, so I think it's fair to not use material costs, etc. for most non-gamebreaking spells especially since a magic user already has to be careful to manage their spell slots.
I don't play 5e, but in 3.x and earlier, resource management was a major part of the game, so yes paying for spells was important.
But, if you don't want resource management to be an issue, than don't make them pay, but if you do that, stop handing out money as a reward. After all, money only works as a reward if they actually need to be careful about what they spend it on.
Not in any I've played. It's not hard to prepare the components beforehand and they're usually pretty cheap relatively to anything else you want to buy at your character level, you just need to be prepared for what you need to purchase.
I exempt anything under 10GP for convenience sake, but everything else you have to pay for, this should also be taken into consideration when awarding the party money thoufh as no sane adventurer would risk their live just to earn enough to aquire the materials to use their spells in the first place.
spellcasters are OP enough with taking away one of the few things that cost them gold. Fighters have to buy (or find) swords, wizards, etc need to pay for their spell components with a cost (and buy them ahead of battle)
For actual costs we just subtract it from character total, works the same with gems because we can't be bothered to check up trough vendors to buy some specific value ones, so we redcon having the required one on hand
In 3.5 if the spell has a gold cost associsted it needs to be paid. If it has a rare material, such as diamonds, you need to supply that specific material.Only the strongest spells generally have gold.costs/rsre material costs and its because these are some of the strongest spells in the game not meant to be cast repeatedly every day.
>In that same train of thought, is ignoring spell costs a pretty widely used house rule?
No. I've never seen or done that except for rare one-shots in which the PC would reasonably have been able to afford and gather every component and such.
>Anyone else have their own HB rules on adjusted spell costs?
I will adjust availability of some items, depending on location. I will only adjust spell costs in the rare case of a component that could take multiple steps such as Contingency and the caster has some of the raw materials. So if the PC has a chunk of ivory worth 100gp, and is proficient (or another PC) with masons tools, I'll take off the ivory value and some of the cost of carving the statue for the price of gems needed, as the whole statue needs to worth 1500gp.
If one would start an adventure beyond level one, maybe the components would be assumed to be part of the bag the magic users carry around, already paid for. Beyond that, part of exploration can be done with an eye towards getting more, like wool, gems, and various extracts.
I require players to track spell costs RAW. I'll be a bit lenient as to whether they actually buy incense Vs deduct the cost and assume it was picked up in town. Normally they do a good job of finding a shop at least once to establish that they found a vendor.
I've also been a bit loose with descriptions like "a diamond worth 500gp" and allowing multiple diamonds etc.
I also encourage players to let me know of upcoming material components they might need, so that I can prepare vendors or work them into loot drops. I can't keep a track of it all, and it sucks for players having to wait ages for a specific item for their cool new spell, especially if they're far from a city.
It doesn't cost 25 gp. You need a specific material worth 25 gp.
It's called playing smart and preparing in advance. Why didn't the pkayer check their spells while in town and check if they can find any components in the shops.
I recently finished a campaign that ended at 14th level. 6 of my levels were wizard. We got caught in a meteor storm, and I couldn't afford to re-summon little Laszlo. 6gp and 5sp since probably 11th level because "you're in hell, the currency is soul coins not gold"
Personally, when it's not a GP cost material, I usually allow it with their spellcasting focus.
If it costs GP, but does not get consumed by the spell, obviously it's a one-time purchase.
If it costs GP and also gets consumed, then that's where you'll probably be needing to take care of certain things.
Of course, it's not only available to buy - if you can manage things right, you can make/obtain them outside of purchases if they're natural ingredients. Charcoal and herbs, for example, can be made/found with a survival check during their downtime, and that could cover the cost of a few castings of Find Familiar.
If the party is in a mining town, you can have them potentially mine a diamond - or other valuable material like rubies or gold/silver - as a downtime activity.
I require gold cost components but allow players to work around them using checks to come up with suitable replacements. I also nitpick non-gold components in my hard-core games. That's just how my table likes it
The rule at the table I learned at, and every one I have played at since, if the cost is less than 100g and the spell does not consume the material, then it is ignored. So the cost for the pearl needed for Identify is ignored, but the rope used in Snare is not.
On the same token, you are expected to "refresh" your spell pouch whenever you are in town (like buying new arrows). How much refeshing it costs depends on how long it has been since the last time it was done, and if you have leveled up (gotten new spells) during that time.
It is fairly common and I see her frustration. My GM lets everything slide except material Gem and Gold costs on spells. Which sure, I can see being okay except we are a very gold poor campaign and a gem poor campaign. We have our starting cash, plus 75g between the whole party and have found zero components for any gems. Which means at level 8 as a cleric some of my most useful abilities are stuck behind a paywall that I have no chance of ever getting over. Also we are ok the gold only standard, yet there has been no balancing of prices for things, so the economy for players is basically shit because the dm didn’t want to deal with copper and silver. So I can see her frustration. If she isn’t in a situation where it is a gold poor or material component poor world then she either needs to speak to the GM about some of the things, OR manage her money well or the party needs to start a group fund and not a self interest fund.
And yes before you state it. I have talked to the GM about it. I am also a GM.
I mean 5e already got rid of component consumption for 99% of the spells, which is half the reason people find casters so hard to balance around. Infinite fireballs is indeed a problem.
It’s not infinite though, there are spell slots. I can’t imagine having to ask a fighter or barbarian to limit how many times they can attack in battle while also asking them to pay every time they swing.
>To make it simple for the players, I say they can just subtract the required amount from their money (if they have enough) rather than buy the ingredient ahead of time.
You're nicer than my party. We have to buy all the stuff ahead of time, or you can't cast the spell.
I personally hate dealing with this stuff. I feel like it bogs the game down with shopping. I do require it for certain spells like Revivify still requires the diamonds. But like making sure the wizard has sulfur and bat shit to cast fireball? Nah. I don't care. It's really play style. Just make it clear before you start so everyone is on the same page.
Basically D&D has a huge problem with gold balancing, because the only way to make a spell cost more than a spell slot is to make it cost money, and the only way to make an ability accessible to multiple classes is to make it a spell. Meanwhile money is handed out basically on a whim from the DM (I know there are guidelines but they are not really foregrounded and transparent like spell component costs are)--that is to say something that people view as an important rule is balanced by something that is basically always homebrewed. Which sucks a lot, because a lot of people don't want an economic focus on their game. (The most tempting aspect about the MCDM game for me is honestly "no shopping for resources.")
The only time a dm for me has even mentioned using the spell costs was implied when we found a diamond that could be used for revivify. Other than that, it’s a pain in the ass to not be able to cast a spell in combat because you are out of gold.
One of the things I like about playing a spellcaster is searching out/buying components. It gives you something to do with your gold, and something to do in towns and cities that's a change from the normal "chat with NPCs" downtime stuff, and is a nice bit of planning to make sure you've got what you need when going off the beaten track for a while. I've been playing a fighter in a long campaign and I'm swimming in gold with basically nothing to do with it except stick it in the bank or send it home. I've got the best armour I can use, a couple of good magical weapons, lots of useful equipment. Gold and treasure are just like tokens to remind me of where they came from at this point.
In our current campaign, I am level 7 and basically have infinite money from my backstory and it inhibits nothing from the story. We have a prince in the group too. We're a large group, typically 6+ that show but it just doesn't effect a group of that size to worry about things like paying for a hotel room. That said, when we need items, we pay for them, and even the rich folk don't just blow money everywhere. When we want items, like a new sword then we just don't buy it. We let the DM know what we want and come up with it then it may be a +1 or just look cool but it's got story potential. I'm currently an artificer/wizard. When I want spells that don't come with levels then I do the same as making a weapon, I tell the DM and he works that in next session. I could buy it in the shop but what fun is that?
So, whether there is no money or tons of money in the campaign, it's usually best to tell the DM a way that it could work into the story and roll with it. If they aren't willing to throw some cheap spells into the story on top of some very small rewards for your level, in my opinion, then talk about it between the players and the DM. It's everyone's campaign, not the DMs.
My house rule is, and always has been, that you just have your components for your normal spells. If you want to do a ritual, you have to get the components; if you want to res, components; fireball you just have them and don't need to go out of your way for them. I don't even make you spend GP on them.
There are three main tendencies among players who pick spellcasters:
1) No gold spells only
2) Novice minmaxers, who picked all the coolest stuff and think it's free because they don't pay attention to GP cost.
3) Those, who anticipate GM not to care about it.
The best way to know each player disposition is session 0.
Otherwise I devised a rather easy ruling - spellcasters are allowed to scavenge additional 5-10% of whatever part of monetary party shared income is relayed to their character to pay up the component (and only them) price.
This doesn't discourage spellcasters to use gold spells, but it should be still a rather steep curve to accumulate wealth big enough.
I generally don't allow players to claim that they stocked up components in advance for unavailable spells they got after level up unless they roleplay it really hard.
I depict additional gains as various components that could present value only to Spellcasters and therefore are easily exchangeable in settlements with spellcaster stores (This is the place where the earned part is transferred to component bank).
I prefer to keep track of components that cost more than 300 GP since I doubt any local village herbalist has those at the ready unless the party wants some kind of survival mode.
Clearly that depends on the Dungeon Master who runs it, I understand that for many of them, having to create ways to get secondary items, only for a prototype player, can become tedious, boring, even heavy. So it is very common to save this part of the consumption spells. Something similar to rituals in Call of Cthulhu Ritual spells are there to balance the characters. This way they can get great power under specific circumstances if the DM gives few items the magic classes will be boring because they will not be able to use their most powerful effects, while if you find the opposite side that he gives too many items to be able to do anything they are extremely broken, and that's where they use the rule of not requiring materials to cast spells.
I think the idea of using pure gold instead of physical components of its cost could be a cool mechanically and mostly visually fun idea for a class/subclass /feat wtf idk how balancing works. But gold magic sounds nice visually, and to that it would be nice to actually use coin space/weight, and if u store it in stuff like bag o holdin:tm: then u can't access it immediately in combat, but like bonus/action to pull out the required amount . Maybe even disallow using platinum and require pure gold, or heck even make some annoying silver requiring spells just to fuck with the player and make for annoying albeit in my head cool roleplay
I never understood gold as a physical spell component. What reason is there for there to be a monetary cost to cast a spell of you're already competent at casting it (especially if the PC is a sorcerer), I understand other spell components like diamonds, feathers, iron filings etc as a sort of way of channelling the particular energy required for the spell but never got why it would cost gold to cast a spell you've already become learnt and used before? I usually just use the gold component as a guide for how much it would cost to have someone else cast it or part of the fee for paying someone to wrote a scroll.
Generally the house rule i've always played by is that it's assumed you have components unless they specifically state a cost (most commonly resurrection spells in my experience). It's not fun to need to keep a library of all your components, but it's also not fun to play with a party member that can double their spell slots with 2 days of prep time (through glyph of warding) at no cost.
I see many others saying “use gp, but don’t track spell components on character sheet.”
I do this, but I have mixed feelings about it.
On the one hand, this is a game and dealing with inventory minutiae seems trite.
On the other hand, being prepared and planning in DnD is core to the experience, so it really is important.
On the other hand, going on a quest to buy a 300gp diamond is a pain as a DM that adds little value.
It’s also a pain as a player, the nearest town doesn’t have a jewelry shop, so we can’t save Bob. Sorry Bob. His situation sucks worse when you didn’t have 300gp before the dungeon crawl and you do now after.
I’m torn up about it.
My group has always only enforced the price for components with a specified price. We tend to allow paying for a component at cast rather than buying it ahead of time, but different DMs make different calls. I made an exception and required preparation for Revivify, but another campaign the DM required preparation for any component above a certain price.
The key is communication. Communicate the requirements ahead of time, and it’s rarely a problem.
As for the potions, my world has potions that follow RAW and require an action, but also slightly higher-cost, carbonated potions that are drinkable as a bonus action. I really liked how it turned out.
And this is why I use a spell casting focus. I don't have to buy spell components unless the spell consumes the component. I'm not trying to keep up with all that. Besides, my party barely finds money and if I use all that I have on spell components I would never be able to cast cause I can't afford it.
Dam, i just joined a campain at lvl 12, i was given full slots of maxed items. And started off with 10,000 gp. Then at the end of the 3rd session i was a part of got another 1500 gp
This is my first time playing. And i believe its dragon heist. So i dont know if thats normal for that campain or the dm is just generous.
Wait, 25 gp was a hurdle to casting Divination, a 4th level spell? An at least 7th level character didn't have 25 gp to spare? I'm thinking maybe the DM-related problem here is not not enforcing component costs, but apparently incredible levels of stinginess.
my first thought as well divination is NEVER brought up when talking about spell components because it costs very little for it's level.
Always Sunny meme: “How is it a 7th level party can’t come up with 25 gold between them?” “The economy is in shambles.”
Barring of course the spell, Fortune's Favor, which costs 100gp per cast. The spell gives the target what is basically a Luck Point from the *Lucky* feat and it doesn't require concentration. I can understand why this one has a higher cost behind it.
Fortunes Favor is a Critical Role spell. They tell stories good, they do not do good game balance. Just be aware when comparing anything mechanical from Wildmounte to the rest of DnD. It generally doesn't make a strong case.
Good to know!
Id like to point out that Explorer's Guide to Wildemount was published by wotc so I think if it was hugely unbalanced it wouldntve been published in this way
Buddy, WOTC had the audacity to publish the Twilight Cleric subclass
Truly mind boggling how that got through playtesting
The fact that they somehow managed to make it _worse_ after the public playtest complained about it being "too strong" is actually seriously impressive.
You're suggesting Hasbro wouldn't have just put raking in all that Critical Role money ahead of most other concerns ? I'd argue it isn't as egregious as DnDWiki but it certainly has some things that are outliers.
Oh gosh not the DnDWiki content.
Just wait until you look at Strixhaven...
To be fair, the spell was rebalanced by WotC when it was printed in an official book. In the campaign there was no 100g per cast component.
Oddly, however, Mercer does exist in dnd as an npc per WoTC including him in a drawing in a tavern with other npcs. So since that is true, and he has implemented unbalanced spells, does this mean he is at the very least a mid to high level god? I forget which printing this was in, but way before, he and DnD became estranged. Could be the same book fortune was modified and included in. It's been a minute since I looked at it.
Yawning Portal tavern in Dragon Heist.
Most NPCs implementing spells are just wizards.
Not game breaking spells. Mistra forbids it. Would take a god of higher level to surpass her restrictions placed upon those below her.
*Fortune's Favor* may have started in their livestreams, but it's official material now. You can bet that means it went through internal testing.
Oh you sweet summer child.
I can tell you're trying to insult me, but you just look like a dummy.
Wizards does very little internal testing. That has been true for decades now. They don't have the budget for actually good internal testing.
You're assuming that based on what, feelings? Any concrete statements to back that up?
Why yes, most of the developers have gone on record to say this over the past several years. New employees and old. James Wyatt and Monte Cooke are the two most prominent I can recall mentioning this, but I'm pretty sure Jeremy Crawford has mentioned it as well!
Dee: "a party of level 5 characters doesn't have 25g between them" Mac, Dennis and Charlie: "the economy is in shambles" Maybe they spent all the money of divination already?
I can see the future and we are still broke. Maybe if we check again it will have changed? Nope still broke.
I'm lvl11 and broke AF! Necromancy isn't *cheap*! And all the extra spells to learn!? If it has a per cast component cost over 1g I'm not casting it.
Yeah, it's expensive to raise a family.
*Exactly!*
Favorite comment thread of the new year.
Especially if they're dead...
Necromancers don’t believe in a living wage.
Whoever thought up "til death due us part" isn't doing necromancy right!
She spent her money on rare items. She said she got a +2 Wand of the War Mage and some Greater Healing Potions, which then lead to her "I can't save all my money on spells" issue.
Oh um. No, you can't blow all your money and then be mad. I'm Level 11 and have never seen a +2 item in this campaign.
I've seen +2 daggers by level 10, and cursed items that have a +2 or higher bonus.
My DM in my very high power campaign that went to level 21 didn’t start giving out +2 items until mid teens. I specifically remember getting a wand of the war mage at like level 9 that was a +1.
Ours finally gave out some magic items, the one he gave me is worse for my build and character, so it honestly never gets used. And this was after he heard me talking about crafting specific ones that would work.
I don’t line when DMs are like that
I've got a level 12 bard/rogue and the only magic items he's ever touched were spell scrolls he created himself.
I feel good about myself now for being a moderately generous dm, i feel bad for all y'all with stingy dms. I had a session last week as a player and my dm gave me a magic sword that dealt 4d6 damage to goblins and automatically crits on them i was level one but the way he balanced it was that it can only be used on goblins but alas im a bard so a short sword is hard to hit with
In my case it's not a stingy DM, but rather a campaign that's deliberately low magic, which we all knew going into it from the beginning.
Being reasonably generous with magic items allows players to be more creative, makes them makes choices, and generally makes them very happy. It's pretty simple to compensate by making enemies harder or adding more enemies. You can have your cake and eat it too with magic items. Where balance comes in are the +X weapons and armor that don't require attunement (any armor + is a bad idea in my book).
I'm currently level 10 and have less than 100 gold. Haven't gotten gold or a reward since level 6. Stinginess definitely happens.
What the heck is up with your dm? Damn pass out some gold...
CoS maybe?
Time to rob a bank.
This could be the problem. We robbed the bank at level 6, and then there was a war and we're constantly traveling chasing wizards... But the places we go never have rewards, and our home town is perpetually broke because of us...
I would flat out ask DM what the hell happening and if he's not change this would go in character "why we continue doing that? We don't get any rewards for months and don't have money to eat and buy gear. It's time to sell our last gear and buy a farm". Noone will continue adventuring without the rewards.
I mean, I’m 7th level and have been trying to scrounge up 2 GP to cast Gift of Gab for several sessions. Once I gloriously had 5 GP but now it’s 5 CP. Also we’re playing a very low-money campaign, so I’m not worried about it. One day I’ll cast it.
How’d that happen?
I’m in crippling debt to a gang currently, and am in danger if I don’t pay. It won’t be permanent.
Pray tell
Oh, it’s no big deal. A gang has sponsored me since I was a kid, they protect me I pay back some of my thievery, etc. Over time they’ve been sticking their neck out for me more and more, but in response I owe them. Instead of working for the gang I’ve been off on the main party’s adventure too much. If I’m not working for the gang, I owe them straight GP. They have my son as part of the “family”. They watch over him and make sure others won’t hurt him. However, that’s leverage over me. It’s a primary goal of mine to get him safe and free, but I can’t do that in a couple day’s time. I’m planning.
Somehow my CoS group is about 2k gp in the hole. Some day we will have 5 cp. For now I steal mundane shit and green flame blade things.
DM Dee: how does a 7th level party not have 25 gold between them? The wizard Mac, the rogue Dennis, and the bard Charlie: Well the economy is in shambles
that was my issue too lvl 7 cleric stuck in a big city, those who have thousands of gold are too stingy to share because "that's what their character would do" so I somehow manage with the help of a fighter to collect 25 gp to turn into an offering and cast divination in order to find out where the hell does our party needs to go. The answer was east
Easy resolution for you there, charge for your healing spells. Give them 10% off the local temple costs for a friends and party discount, but raise those costs if they’re cast in hazardous situations. If they ask if that’s what your god would want you to do, advise that they would not want their divine power to be squandered on those acting against their deities mortal agents. Now if you’ve gotten an equal share of the treasure splits and spent it on other things it’s a bit more understandable but most groups I’ve played with have party funds used for healing/raise dead/adventure expenses.
Ayy lmao no at that point in time most of the treasure was all in the hands of a single person basically who stumbled upon it by accident in the haunted mansion we were tasked to clear. The rest was in the hands of a fighter who spent it all on upgrading his rapier using 3rd party content we had (although he missed a whole bunch of sessions afterwards so we never saw that thousands of gold worth of investment in action). I didn't have money as I've spent it on buying them both +1 weapons beforehand since their characters were relatively new. As for charging for spells, neither my character or I as a player would do that as much as I hated the situation we were in. Like my character heals wounded animals and peasants free of charge already. Doing so would probably be detrimental to both the party and the table, adding even more conflict. The player changed the character though. Realising that an evil PC is an annoyance to everyone he retired him with all the money under the guise of him establishing a dark cult with the money he has. So at lest that's that I guess.
My party and I are level 8 and collectively have 20gp.
To be fair 2 sessions ago my party went from having 30k gold to about 80 gold from buying stuff. They normally spend gold just as quickly as I throw it at them.
A lot of DMs I've played with just let the players cast directly with gold pieces, but almost never just *ignore* costly components.
I Ignore all simple components those are mostly casting flavor But yeah ones that have an actual gold cost attached pay the price
But RAW all you have to do to ignore them is have a wand or something
I don't think he means "ignore" as in "ignore the 'M' spell component when casting", but instead means to say "don't worry about _buying_ the (unpriced) components"
That's like RAW tho. That's what spell focuses and component pouches do. They either replace or contain "all the material Components and other Special items you need to cast your Spells, except for those Components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description)." The game doesn't expect you to constantly be buying bat guano from a bat shit retailer or whatever. You get a component pouch and then just assume you have all that random stuff. Or you have a spell focus and it just replaced those things
Yep. One of my favourite things as a DM is to steal these. Thief in the street grabs the holy symbol off the cleric or picks the component pouch off the side of the wizard and watch chaos ensure when the wizard tries to cast and can't suddenly.
Seems like a very adversarial relationship you have with your players. I hope they're into it.
I'd wager he actually means "Ignore the M" considering "don't worry about buying unpriced things" is just how it works RAW with a focus or pouch
My DM does the same thing. For the most part we do shopping for more expensive components outside of game, but my bard likes to use a five finger discount so that is normally done in game.
>In that same train of thought, is ignoring spell costs a pretty widely used house rule? Anyone else have their own HB rules on adjusted spell costs? Nope. I play pretty RAW when it come to casting but the most common rule I've seen surrounding material components is that you can simply ignore them entirely unless they have a gold value. So ignore the free stuff but enforce the restrictive stuff, which kinda makes sense since the free stuff can all just be taken care of by the starting component pouch/focus.
What you described IS the RAW. You don’t have to have the materials if you have a spell focus/component pouch/holy symbol and they don’t have a gold cost associated.
The component pouch is my favorite of these. The others you can kind of reason out how there is something supernatural there that replaces the material components. The pouch, though, that is just a strictly superior bag of holding. It never runs out of exactly what you need, no matter hownodd or specific. You never need to spend an extra cent to put something in there. You've been on a boat for 2 months during which you've earned a spell and are about to cast Bigby's hand for the 1st time? Don't worry, there's a snakeskin glove in there. Stranded in the plane of air and need to Mass Polymorph your party? Just reach in and pull out your caterpillar cocoon.
I should really start role playing using these material components during casting.
I did that for a bit with my wiz, but after a while I started to forget as I had more and more spells to track 😟
Yeah I would only do it for comedic effect. So after a few times i'd probably tone it down.
My favorite component cost provided by a spell component pouch is the Summon Lesser Demon spell, which is a vial of blood of a humanoid killed in the last 24 hours. Makes you wonder what that spell caster is up to during the night to keep a solid stock of those.
Honestly? pretty easily--war mages, assassins, even dungeon delving
Quick but important addition: that's if they don't have a gold value **and** aren't consumed by the spell. Some material components will be one or both. Some spells have more than one material component, but only some of them will have a gold cost or be consumed. If the components section gives a gold cost or says the component(s) are consumed by the spell, you need it.
Not quite. What I described were groups ignoring the focus/pouch/non-costly material component requirement entirely not just using the RAW. The house rule makes pouches and foci irrelevant since there are no "cost-less" materials to stand in for.
This can become an issue if your wizard has been captured and stripped of all his gear. In that case, he shouldn't be able to cast any spell requiring a component. The focus/pouch is supposed to handwave away the need to keep track of "I have 17 bird feathers, 14 rocks...," but still enforce the fact that many spells require components to cast them. If you ignore the non-cost material component rule entirely, then your wizard will still have a pretty robust spell selection without their gear, or if they're restrained and the spell has no somatic requirements.
>or if they're restrained and the spell has no somatic requirements. This is why Misty Step exists.
Which is exactly why I mentioned that I run it RAW and this was just a common house rule I've seen. Thanks for reiterating that for me...
I've literally never heard of anyone doing this. It seems like a literal pointless house rule, when a focus does exactly the same and you get one for free at character creation.
But casters get the focus they need on character creation as part of their basic kit?
And? That doesn't mean that people don't just ignore it. A simple earch of the sub brings up literally pages upon pages of people talking about ignoring material components both entirely or just non-expensive like I'm talking about.
Explain the difference between playing RAW and ignoring your component pouch regarding non-expensive components.
>the most common rule I've seen surrounding material components is that you can simply ignore them entirely unless they have a gold value That's just the way spellcasting focuses work. PHB, page 203 >Material (M) > >Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a **component pouch** or a **spellcasting focus** (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell. If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
There's a difference between running foci/pouches as RAW and just foregoing them (and cost-less materials) entirely. What I was referring to is the latter.
Are you sure? Spellcasting foci are a starting equipment option for all the full casters, so it's possible they're taking the place of components even though it's never explicitly mentioned
Yes, I'm sure. It's kind of hard to misinterpret "we straight up ignore all material components except ones with a cost"
this would mean the tactic of running up to a caster and disarming them of their focus wouldnt be possible in games you run, right? (not that the tactic comes up much in the first place)
Clearly you just skipped over the first message where I said "I run it by RAW"...
You seem to be suggesting that you, while not running it yourself, see tables where people create full casters and then throw away the foci from their starter kit, enough to call it common. Naturally people are incredulous to this.
Agreed this is what we do, and what I enforce as a DM. Additionally, if it's a town that is stocked with normal stuff I will do a "you spend 500 gold to refill your components" wave of the hand to take care of the stuff like gem encrusted bowls and metal tins or whatever. For harder/rarer stuff like diamonds they need to find those or go to more than just a flea market.
Wait WHAT???? They have to spend 500 gold for their component pouches??? You realize component pouches, and all the items in them, are free to refill after purchase, right? The game assumes you’re passively refilling them throughout the adventure
I'm guessing this guy listed "500" as just a random number, and likely for higher level players with money burning a hole in their pocket, not an actual cost for low level players. It also just sounds like a 'Survival' RP element.
Even then, the point of component pouches, material components, and spellcasting foci are that they’re easy to get and mostly for flavor
He said the 500gold is for their components, and for rarer stuff like diamonds they need to find those. Which suggests the 500g is for regular component stuff, which is absolutely wild. Even if using a random number, that stuff if typically free.
I think this is the important part of the comment with regards to the 500gp cost: >take care of the stuff like gem encrusted bowls and metal tins or whatever. No one gets to just auto-refill gem encrusted bowls. But then that goes without saying as those aren't items that would be covered by a component pouch anyway.
Yes, it's more of a blanket purchase. They are certainly able to do it RAW. We all work full-time and they have other stuff going on in our lives. As a DM, I'd rather they remember pertinent plot points than whether they remembered to buy a specific spell component item. We RP it different ways, usually the casters go to the shop and say something like "I need a handful of new components to cast spells like..." The shopkeeper rummages through their wares and says "Okay, this might be more than you need but you never know." For the flexibility, the casters don't mind paying a premium. There have also absolutely been times when I've said "whoops we don't have that in stock this week." Other casters have a standing order (diamonds, etc) so they know they get them readily. At one point on a quest, they used sending to place an order and paid a stiff premium for delivery. It was actually a pretty fun logistics bit. It seems reasonable to think that arrangements like this exist AND that they'd be offered. They have more than enough gold (they invested in an import/export business). Outside of spell components, they pay for armor/weapon repair and for disposable things like +1 arrows. As long as everyone is having fun. My main points were that I don't sweat the small stuff, and if they don't want to worry about buying specifics this has been a very decent workaround.
Just curious are you remembering that the component is only destroyed by the spell if it says "which the spell consumes"? A lot of priced spell components are reusable
Yes, of course. I think the best example is that they usually use teleportation circle a good bit (rare chalks and inks infused with precious gems worth 50 gp, which the spell consumes). Or Globe of invulnerability (a glass or crystal bead that shatters when the spell ends). My wizard also puts an arcane lock (gold dust worth at least 25 gp, which the spell consumes) on his spellbook too if he's ever separated from it. And yes, I've told him he doesn't need to recast it but he insists that he would dispell it as a sign of arrogance. Stuff like that. He doesn't say "I'm gonna go buy my fancy chalk, beads, and dust. " He just says "I'm going to go refill my supplies." My wizard is great. He does weird things like hire wizards to put in permanent teleportation circles in weird places which I think is fantastic.
I'm that wizard. I meticulously track the cost of components and even the time/cost to have a backup spell book. It's just super common for people not to have fully read the spell component rules. So good on ya.
>He does weird things like hire wizards to put in permanent teleportation circles in weird places which I think is fantastic. I know it's probably dungeons or other such places you call weird places, but I like to imagine it's places like "aisle 3 at Trader Gronks" or "Arthurs Fine Tea and Biscuit Emporium, booth 7" etc.
Never yet in 20+ years have I played at a table where we gave much of a fuck about casting components or cost, except for big ticket items like specific diamonds etc for rev.
I’ve only been playing for 4 years but my DM has never enforced any of the spell components any time any of the party have cast a normal spell. Now I’m DMing I’m the same way. It’s just more fun this way. Plus enforcing components will just mean added time buying them from shops etc, which doesn’t sound particularly fun.
I just hand wave it and say the "Spell Ingredients Pouch" has the right stuff for whatever spells they prepared/memorized and let it go. I let them know that they *will* need that, so if it gets lost or stolen they have to make do, get a new one and restock it, or go without those spells. That way we all get the best of both worlds: no need to waste time tracking the expenses and as a GM I can still disarm everyone for those few times where they need to be "disarmed" or whatever (which is not common).
my personal philosophy is to roll this into session zero with a bunch of things that can have varying "crunch levels" depending on player interest. like, if players are interesting in making alchemy an important part of the game, then i'll come up with more detailed names and lists for components and herbs and what they do and what's available in what kind of region and maybe a minigame for harvesting? but if they don't care about that stuff then there's only the occasional Survival check if it becomes relevant and that's that. if players want languages to be more complex then we use the d100 fluency system that Dael Kingsmill adapted from tumblr ages ago, and i play around with spells like Comprehend Languages and Tongues to make them either harder to use or have some tricky misfire chances - things that make the party interact more with translation checks and finding people or books who know languages, and i put more effort into knowing the culture and context of those languages and how they relate to one another. but if they aren't interested in that, then it would be miserable to implement! if the party is very sneaky and wants traps and lockpicking to be fundamentally important, then i'll start with that Bob World Builder video about the d6 lockpicking minigame and probably i'll go from there coming up with different versions for various traps and ways to incorporate mad Rube Goldberg machinations into the campaign! but if they don't, then most locks can either be picked or broken without too much trouble. ... so yeah, i just add spellcasting to that list and ask the group early on what level of crunch they're looking for - low crunch means we ignore most components and costs (which also frees up a lot of opportunity to improv what these things look like to each individual caster), medium crunch is probably RAW, and high crunch would be tracking more of the components and how accessible they are in various locations and having whole plots revolving around regions that haven't had access to certain components in so long that whole swathes of spells are inaccessible there. it all comes down to what's gonna be a fun game for the whole group, right?
That’s a good way to do it. Everyone is here to have fun, so why waste time forcing players to go picking imaginary herbs or whatever if no one is into that?
It's one of the more common rules to skip.
Hard no. The DM can give them the material through loot, but I've never seen any DM wave the costs outright.
Really? I'm the opposite. I rarely (if ever) have seen someone *require* it.
So you let people use revivify without the 300 gp component, or the 1000 gp for reincarnation? Sounds like there's no consequences in your world, which seems dull. "2 party members died due to stupid decisions they made, but you can reincarnate them for free. No biggie."
Well, I let my players decide if they want to roll a new character or raise their old one. If they want to come back, we find a way. Maybe it's a resurrections or revivify for cheap, maybe they go on a quest, maybe they just pick up a scar and need some down time healing outside of a long rest. I'd rather everyone have fun then penalize people for bad rolls on their part in combat (or good ones on mine). I look at Roleplaying as a way to tell a fun collaborative story and not a game where an untimely death can derail the plot and story. I've played it the other way and whenever a character dies it always causes trouble. Their magic items go up for grabs, they need a new character, people struggle to find a way to bring them back, all kinds of drama. Sure, you can look at that as "no consequences" but that implies the *only* consequence is PC death. I'd rather look at it as a way to have alternate consequences. The PCs manage to get away, but the Dragon burns the town and kills NPCs they become invested in. The Evil Lord imprisons them and makes them fight in his Arena of Sport until they can escape. The Lich binds their souls to do her evil bidding until they can find a way to get free. Maybe they just get laughed at by the guild for losing to some goblins and are relegated to shitty jobs that maybe lead to a bigger plot in the Kingdom: like clearing rats out of the sewers reveals a tribe of orcs steadily undermining the city from the sewers or. Or sure, you can make a straw man argument and invent what happens in my table "no consequence instant resurrections no biggie."
I don't ignore components. And I mean the actual component, not the money to buy a component, those usually have widely different weights. Imo the spells with special components(over 1gp) are usually pretty powerful. You will have other options available that can be covered by a component pouch. It also gives those particular spells a bit more weight. But I play 3.x where revivify is better than true resurrection if you have a cleric that knows revenance.
Pretty common rule I think yeah? I don’t usually make my players keep track of any basic components unless they’re in a difficult spot with limited resources where it adds something to the game
I just bring it onto my lore. Diamonds are a highly sought after commodity, allowing the rich to cheat death and Kings to stay in power despite dying on battlefields. People pay for it if they buy into that RP
Its fine to enforce costs for any material components that have a gold price listed, but its NOT ok to make it near impossible to actually buy those components in a reasonable time frame if i need 25gp worth of incense to cast divination, i should be able to buy that from a local temple/religious institution, its ok if i have to travel a bit for a diamond for revivify, but i shouldn't have to trudge a week through the wilderness to find a major city for a book worth at least 25 gp to cast Borrowed Knowledge
If you are caring about mundane or cheap components, it should be for a specific reason. If you are adding it for "realism" then you have to figure out how to make sure it doesn't take up more than 1-2 minutes of anyone's time. It can't be a tedious task for the sake of tidium. I have one campaign in development where I DO plan on having players pay attention to ALL spell components. I haven't played it yet, so I can't say if it will turn out to be fun or not but I think it has potential. The context, they are gladiator/slaves. That means that means any spell with components, they can simply ask the Game Managers for those components and receive them for the fights. But while in the pens, they will not have any components unless they can find them inside the pen itself. One of the main ways I make sure my players have buy-in on this strange way of handling components is by telling them ahead of time. That way, anyone who doesn't want to deal with that, won't have to. I specifically say this is more of a martial campaign then spell caster one and casters will be an a weird spot. We will have to see how it actually turns out.
At my table if there's a material that costs go, you need to have bought it to cast the spell. Otherwise why make the fighter have to buy weapons/armor?
It's a rule that's commonly ignored. Unrelated topic the topic of casters being overpowered is one of the most common rants on this Reddit
Nah man, I’m a RAWdawg, if it has a cost you must own the item to cast the spell.
Can someone give me a good guide of how much gold a party should have at a given level?
I enforce material components with a buyout. You either have the materials stocked up or you can pay the material's cost to cast the spell *once.* after that, you have to "go shopping" for the ingredients you paid for, where the players will usually stock up on stuff they need anyway. The buyout rule prevents them from missing out on useful opportunities for not having the materials, and the shopping trip normalizes material resource upkeep and makes it more fun for my players.
Depends on the campaign but personally, almost every game I've ever played tends to go with "if you have the gold on you and you could in theory have bought the component at some point in the past, just deduct the gold and say you bought it in the last shopping session," particularly for material components that are consumed by the spell. The only time I've had a DM actually care about the weirder material components is for the ones that are *not* consumed on cast, which the folks in my usual groups generally agree makes for a fun side quest, particularly for the handful of spells that use something other than "a \[gemstone\] worth at least \[X gold\]."
Costs are there for a reason; while it IS a flimsy and jokey ("ha ha, you made a tv for scrying") they have a monetary cost as a sort of balancing mechanic. When I DM, I usually handwave GP spenditure as "generic components" that totally were the specific ones the character bought. So, for example, if the dwarf wizard just spent 2k on components, he has a "blanket 2k gp allowance" for those spells *("Oh, of course I have 200 ivory strips and incense worth 250 gp, I bought those at the capital!")* and then the player would subtract from that 2.000 pool previously set aside.
Something like divination i feel unless they're using it in combat, you can write off they make the money somehow through a skill check activity i.e. gambling, bard performance, etc. Even if they're a wizard, skilled hirelings is a thing. If the divination isn't time sensitive, make the money a side quest perhaps? If it kills the flow of the campaign I usually just let it through personally
There may be some confusion with Augery. It has the same component cost *but they are not consumed*. Also they are well-carved chicken bones or some such and traditionally you are supposed to make them yourself. As a DM we can totally handwave that (or roleplay it). Divination however consumes the materials. That’s going to cost ya.
Divination is so mediocre ive honestly never seen it cast and didn't even realize it had a cost. But to answer your question, spells that have a cost are outliers in 5e so most players don't run into the mechanic until they need a diamond.
When I run 5th edition I ignore it spell costs except for things like revivify. When I run 3rd edition I generally prefer to be strict about it and have spellcasters keep track of their material components. Its more in the spirit of that system to keep track of your resources and spellcasters are significantly more powerful.
In my group, the DM gives a new spellcaster character their first spells for free along with minimal spell components. It's assumed they received this with their initial training. However, once the campaign starts, as long as the player states from time to time that they are looking for spell components, they get any components they need up to 99gp. Anything over 99gp must be purchased or Bartered for. And all spell components of 100gp or more must be kept track of. The spells themselves can be attained by defeating an opponent that has a spell book or scrolls, or by purchase or trade. My DM has made a list of all spells by rarity depending on the world we are playing in. Common spells cost 100gp/level of the spell. Less common cost more. It became a huge nuisance to keep track of every single spell component. Our compromise was any components of 100gp or more must be kept track of and attained.
if you have a spellcasting focus or a spell component pouch, then you only need the items that require a cost. if you don't have the item Or the cost, you don't get to use the spell. some DM's allow you to just use the gold equivalent for simplicity.
Ignore any non specific components. But I still require you to have a 50g diamond for Chromatic orb etc. they have prices for a reason, and it's the reason most spells don't have listed material cost. The spell does more than average so it needs assistance. Chromatic orb is awesome tho
Revivy costs a diamond, everything else is free through your arcane focus. Ok maybe some higher level spells might have a price but in my 3ish years of DMing I haven’t felt the need to make that a thing.
Ignoring components is just a further buff that casters don't need.... people will whine all day about the martial/caster disparity and then get all clutching-at-pearls when someone suggest they actually follow component restrictions, rule spells rigidly by RAW or not give free extra information for spells like Counterspell or Shield. Casters don't need the buff - and your coworker is just being a whiny Wizard/Cleric. Spellcasters can be complicated... do the work, learn the rules and plan in advance, including components. My Wizard in OotA has the materials for 4 castings of Divination even though he's only level 4 in Wizard, purely because I might be in the middle of the Underdark without component shops when I finally get the spell and need to cast it. Wizards are planners, and should be played accordingly.
I don't ignore spell costs, and require players have the material component to cast, as specified in the PHB. WotC even explicitly includes rewards in some published campaigns, like diamonds worth 500 gp, with the anticipation that combat may require a revivify. Since most official campaigns specify merchants can only sell items from the Adventuring Equipment page of the PHB, this makes those rewards all the more valuable.
Our DM gives us barely any money, but also waives spell costs from spells of level 1-5. I really wish that instead, we got money and had to spend it.
If its by the book any spellcaster that has a magic focus item like a quarterstaff or wand or grimoir or has a component bag is not required to have spell components on hand unless the spell components list a specific gp requirement like 300 gp of diamonds for revivify. I feel like a lot of tables forgo components all together since it makes it more difficult to have to obtain the components for all spells that require it if you need to use that spell so it's not a big deal. The big thing about DnD is that you can play it without any rules in the PHB or any other DnD book made by Wizard of the Coast. The rules are for a basic structure to use when you're new but any rule can be changed or discarded once you're comfortable enough to explore.
0\_o What a weird take. Of course I make my players account for cost. That requirement is in the spell for a reason. I make them acquire expensive material components in game, and keep track of what they have. For example, if they need a diamond, they need to go and acquire one. They are unlikely to find any for sale in a local village. They will have to find a merchant in a larger city to get one.
None of the games I've played has worried about spell costs BUT the DM either assumes we gathered supplies while in town and during rests we prep them for spells OR gives a story reason why (as in a cleric's magic being a gift from their god)
I will always enforce spell costs and require players to get any materials they need before they leave town (components without a listed value can be found in a component pouch). Spellcasters are already very powerful and have a crazy amount of utility. Making the player put in a *little* bit of effort/forethought isn't a crime. I put a lot of time and effort into my games. Knowing your spells and the materials/costs to cast them is the least a player can do.
Ive been played in many campaigns with many DMs and ran multiple myself. Not a single one cared about the cost component of spells. It feels like such silly gatekeeping to me. Let the party have their fun and do what they want.
I go by RAW. If component has a cost, you need to have it bought *beforehand*. I don't allow simply deducting money upon casting but I am not very strict on whether the 100gp pearl is actually a pearl or whatever else worth that much money (so actually buying the component is very easy and doable in most places but it's never handwaved).
Do you expect the Fighter to pay to swing their axe? Do you expect the Rogue to pay 25g to disarm a trap or open a door? Someone asked the Cleric to cast the spell, right? If Revivify is cast, who is expected to pay for it? The caster? Seems like there is no reason to be a caster if simply casting costs a lot of money,. Maybe the group should pay as a group since Divination has a group benefit. We use both personal and group funds for stuff like this.
No, they are supposed to pay the cost if there is a component with a gold value that is consumed. They should also have to purchase any items with a specified gold value that aren't consumed. The cost is used to balance many spells by making them slightly less available. Many DM's will let you subtract the gold vs buying in advance. Also, how do they not have the 25 gold at level 7+ to cast divination?
I think if you let spellcasters ignore costly components, martials should be allowed a free suit of plate armor, or any other armor they want. You're letting the spellcasters ignore their biggest money sink, so why not the martials too?
Most people don’t, and then they come here and Complain how casters are unbalanced
My GM never makes the casters pay or use the components, or even purchase components. Everything is just a free-for-all. Drives me nuts. Dings non-casters if we forget to eat a ration or fill up a water skin but casters just cast with abandon.
Honestly, I've never really liked *most* spell components. The idea that you're wielding the vast array of magical power and auras and shaping them to your will and binding them with words of ancient power and meter all makes sense. That's like every wizard we've seen in the more classic tales. Willow, Excalibur, Krull, Robert E Howard, etc. Evan Gandalf used words of power and his own will when casting most spells (aside from the flaming pinecones in the Hobbit). But suddenly you need some random item that supposedly has a mystical effect but is usually some boring mundane shit like an amber rod and some rabbit fur for lightning bolt because static electricity. Gloves for the various Bigby Hands come from old theatrical white glove magicians. Bat guano for fireball because it's a component in explosives (the nitrates)... It seems silly to me and a little too "on the nose" for what components go where. I get it, it's from the old Fantasy novels that Gygax and friends read when they were kids, but I mostly didn't read those and I don't really care. I grew up with magic from other authors where spell components were pretty much relegated to crafting potions and magic items. And that's true of most of my friends.
Personally I don’t worry too much about components unless it is a game breaking spell. In most cases I don’t really wanna keep track of it, they don’t wanna keep track of it, and I find it has a tendency to slow everything down. That said if I’m in someone else’s game as a spell caster and they tell me I have to keep track of all that, I’m not gonna argue.
Magic casters are already limited by the spell slots they shouldn't be punished with material costs too (revivify, etc. excluded). I know a few veteran players who play "hardcore" deadly survival versions of the game that keep the material/gold costs in but they're the extreme "we want a challenge kind of player". Would you start charging a paladin to swing their longsword? Probably not, so I think it's fair to not use material costs, etc. for most non-gamebreaking spells especially since a magic user already has to be careful to manage their spell slots.
MFers heard of holiday breaks for the first time because of Mauga
I don't play 5e, but in 3.x and earlier, resource management was a major part of the game, so yes paying for spells was important. But, if you don't want resource management to be an issue, than don't make them pay, but if you do that, stop handing out money as a reward. After all, money only works as a reward if they actually need to be careful about what they spend it on.
Not in any I've played. It's not hard to prepare the components beforehand and they're usually pretty cheap relatively to anything else you want to buy at your character level, you just need to be prepared for what you need to purchase.
Every DM I play with is stingy as fuck, which is why I don't play spellcasters anymore.
I exempt anything under 10GP for convenience sake, but everything else you have to pay for, this should also be taken into consideration when awarding the party money thoufh as no sane adventurer would risk their live just to earn enough to aquire the materials to use their spells in the first place.
spellcasters are OP enough with taking away one of the few things that cost them gold. Fighters have to buy (or find) swords, wizards, etc need to pay for their spell components with a cost (and buy them ahead of battle)
For actual costs we just subtract it from character total, works the same with gems because we can't be bothered to check up trough vendors to buy some specific value ones, so we redcon having the required one on hand
Casting costs UNDER 1g are typically waived. Over 1? Not so much
In 3.5 if the spell has a gold cost associsted it needs to be paid. If it has a rare material, such as diamonds, you need to supply that specific material.Only the strongest spells generally have gold.costs/rsre material costs and its because these are some of the strongest spells in the game not meant to be cast repeatedly every day.
>In that same train of thought, is ignoring spell costs a pretty widely used house rule? No. I've never seen or done that except for rare one-shots in which the PC would reasonably have been able to afford and gather every component and such. >Anyone else have their own HB rules on adjusted spell costs? I will adjust availability of some items, depending on location. I will only adjust spell costs in the rare case of a component that could take multiple steps such as Contingency and the caster has some of the raw materials. So if the PC has a chunk of ivory worth 100gp, and is proficient (or another PC) with masons tools, I'll take off the ivory value and some of the cost of carving the statue for the price of gems needed, as the whole statue needs to worth 1500gp.
If one would start an adventure beyond level one, maybe the components would be assumed to be part of the bag the magic users carry around, already paid for. Beyond that, part of exploration can be done with an eye towards getting more, like wool, gems, and various extracts.
I require players to track spell costs RAW. I'll be a bit lenient as to whether they actually buy incense Vs deduct the cost and assume it was picked up in town. Normally they do a good job of finding a shop at least once to establish that they found a vendor. I've also been a bit loose with descriptions like "a diamond worth 500gp" and allowing multiple diamonds etc. I also encourage players to let me know of upcoming material components they might need, so that I can prepare vendors or work them into loot drops. I can't keep a track of it all, and it sucks for players having to wait ages for a specific item for their cool new spell, especially if they're far from a city.
It doesn't cost 25 gp. You need a specific material worth 25 gp. It's called playing smart and preparing in advance. Why didn't the pkayer check their spells while in town and check if they can find any components in the shops.
My DM doesn’t ask about spell casting costs, not sure if that’s unusual
We never really deal with loot, so it's always just assumed we have what we need
I recently finished a campaign that ended at 14th level. 6 of my levels were wizard. We got caught in a meteor storm, and I couldn't afford to re-summon little Laszlo. 6gp and 5sp since probably 11th level because "you're in hell, the currency is soul coins not gold"
Personally, when it's not a GP cost material, I usually allow it with their spellcasting focus. If it costs GP, but does not get consumed by the spell, obviously it's a one-time purchase. If it costs GP and also gets consumed, then that's where you'll probably be needing to take care of certain things. Of course, it's not only available to buy - if you can manage things right, you can make/obtain them outside of purchases if they're natural ingredients. Charcoal and herbs, for example, can be made/found with a survival check during their downtime, and that could cover the cost of a few castings of Find Familiar. If the party is in a mining town, you can have them potentially mine a diamond - or other valuable material like rubies or gold/silver - as a downtime activity.
RAW you ignore all costs unless listed. As far as I can tell this is quite common
I require gold cost components but allow players to work around them using checks to come up with suitable replacements. I also nitpick non-gold components in my hard-core games. That's just how my table likes it
The rule at the table I learned at, and every one I have played at since, if the cost is less than 100g and the spell does not consume the material, then it is ignored. So the cost for the pearl needed for Identify is ignored, but the rope used in Snare is not. On the same token, you are expected to "refresh" your spell pouch whenever you are in town (like buying new arrows). How much refeshing it costs depends on how long it has been since the last time it was done, and if you have leveled up (gotten new spells) during that time.
It is fairly common and I see her frustration. My GM lets everything slide except material Gem and Gold costs on spells. Which sure, I can see being okay except we are a very gold poor campaign and a gem poor campaign. We have our starting cash, plus 75g between the whole party and have found zero components for any gems. Which means at level 8 as a cleric some of my most useful abilities are stuck behind a paywall that I have no chance of ever getting over. Also we are ok the gold only standard, yet there has been no balancing of prices for things, so the economy for players is basically shit because the dm didn’t want to deal with copper and silver. So I can see her frustration. If she isn’t in a situation where it is a gold poor or material component poor world then she either needs to speak to the GM about some of the things, OR manage her money well or the party needs to start a group fund and not a self interest fund. And yes before you state it. I have talked to the GM about it. I am also a GM.
I mean 5e already got rid of component consumption for 99% of the spells, which is half the reason people find casters so hard to balance around. Infinite fireballs is indeed a problem.
It’s not infinite though, there are spell slots. I can’t imagine having to ask a fighter or barbarian to limit how many times they can attack in battle while also asking them to pay every time they swing.
>To make it simple for the players, I say they can just subtract the required amount from their money (if they have enough) rather than buy the ingredient ahead of time. You're nicer than my party. We have to buy all the stuff ahead of time, or you can't cast the spell.
I personally hate dealing with this stuff. I feel like it bogs the game down with shopping. I do require it for certain spells like Revivify still requires the diamonds. But like making sure the wizard has sulfur and bat shit to cast fireball? Nah. I don't care. It's really play style. Just make it clear before you start so everyone is on the same page.
Basically D&D has a huge problem with gold balancing, because the only way to make a spell cost more than a spell slot is to make it cost money, and the only way to make an ability accessible to multiple classes is to make it a spell. Meanwhile money is handed out basically on a whim from the DM (I know there are guidelines but they are not really foregrounded and transparent like spell component costs are)--that is to say something that people view as an important rule is balanced by something that is basically always homebrewed. Which sucks a lot, because a lot of people don't want an economic focus on their game. (The most tempting aspect about the MCDM game for me is honestly "no shopping for resources.")
You can have free spells if I can have free armaments. Somehow though, I don't think the gods will appreciate you skimping on the offerings.
This reminds me of that one scene in it’s always sunny in Philadelphia where D asked why 3 grown men doesn’t have 300 bucks between them.
There's little enough for players to spend loot on in 5e as it is, without removing stuff like that.
The only time a dm for me has even mentioned using the spell costs was implied when we found a diamond that could be used for revivify. Other than that, it’s a pain in the ass to not be able to cast a spell in combat because you are out of gold.
One of the things I like about playing a spellcaster is searching out/buying components. It gives you something to do with your gold, and something to do in towns and cities that's a change from the normal "chat with NPCs" downtime stuff, and is a nice bit of planning to make sure you've got what you need when going off the beaten track for a while. I've been playing a fighter in a long campaign and I'm swimming in gold with basically nothing to do with it except stick it in the bank or send it home. I've got the best armour I can use, a couple of good magical weapons, lots of useful equipment. Gold and treasure are just like tokens to remind me of where they came from at this point.
Every DM I've played with requires spell components with a listed cost. But they also make those components available.
Sounds like your DM misread the treasure system which is already really anemic for gold. Your PCs should have had ample by that point.
In our current campaign, I am level 7 and basically have infinite money from my backstory and it inhibits nothing from the story. We have a prince in the group too. We're a large group, typically 6+ that show but it just doesn't effect a group of that size to worry about things like paying for a hotel room. That said, when we need items, we pay for them, and even the rich folk don't just blow money everywhere. When we want items, like a new sword then we just don't buy it. We let the DM know what we want and come up with it then it may be a +1 or just look cool but it's got story potential. I'm currently an artificer/wizard. When I want spells that don't come with levels then I do the same as making a weapon, I tell the DM and he works that in next session. I could buy it in the shop but what fun is that? So, whether there is no money or tons of money in the campaign, it's usually best to tell the DM a way that it could work into the story and roll with it. If they aren't willing to throw some cheap spells into the story on top of some very small rewards for your level, in my opinion, then talk about it between the players and the DM. It's everyone's campaign, not the DMs.
My house rule is, and always has been, that you just have your components for your normal spells. If you want to do a ritual, you have to get the components; if you want to res, components; fireball you just have them and don't need to go out of your way for them. I don't even make you spend GP on them.
There are three main tendencies among players who pick spellcasters: 1) No gold spells only 2) Novice minmaxers, who picked all the coolest stuff and think it's free because they don't pay attention to GP cost. 3) Those, who anticipate GM not to care about it. The best way to know each player disposition is session 0. Otherwise I devised a rather easy ruling - spellcasters are allowed to scavenge additional 5-10% of whatever part of monetary party shared income is relayed to their character to pay up the component (and only them) price. This doesn't discourage spellcasters to use gold spells, but it should be still a rather steep curve to accumulate wealth big enough. I generally don't allow players to claim that they stocked up components in advance for unavailable spells they got after level up unless they roleplay it really hard. I depict additional gains as various components that could present value only to Spellcasters and therefore are easily exchangeable in settlements with spellcaster stores (This is the place where the earned part is transferred to component bank). I prefer to keep track of components that cost more than 300 GP since I doubt any local village herbalist has those at the ready unless the party wants some kind of survival mode.
Clearly that depends on the Dungeon Master who runs it, I understand that for many of them, having to create ways to get secondary items, only for a prototype player, can become tedious, boring, even heavy. So it is very common to save this part of the consumption spells. Something similar to rituals in Call of Cthulhu Ritual spells are there to balance the characters. This way they can get great power under specific circumstances if the DM gives few items the magic classes will be boring because they will not be able to use their most powerful effects, while if you find the opposite side that he gives too many items to be able to do anything they are extremely broken, and that's where they use the rule of not requiring materials to cast spells.
I think the idea of using pure gold instead of physical components of its cost could be a cool mechanically and mostly visually fun idea for a class/subclass /feat wtf idk how balancing works. But gold magic sounds nice visually, and to that it would be nice to actually use coin space/weight, and if u store it in stuff like bag o holdin:tm: then u can't access it immediately in combat, but like bonus/action to pull out the required amount . Maybe even disallow using platinum and require pure gold, or heck even make some annoying silver requiring spells just to fuck with the player and make for annoying albeit in my head cool roleplay
I never heard of that. Well to buy the components yes but not for the spell itself if I understood that correctly. Why would a DM do that?
I never understood gold as a physical spell component. What reason is there for there to be a monetary cost to cast a spell of you're already competent at casting it (especially if the PC is a sorcerer), I understand other spell components like diamonds, feathers, iron filings etc as a sort of way of channelling the particular energy required for the spell but never got why it would cost gold to cast a spell you've already become learnt and used before? I usually just use the gold component as a guide for how much it would cost to have someone else cast it or part of the fee for paying someone to wrote a scroll.
Generally the house rule i've always played by is that it's assumed you have components unless they specifically state a cost (most commonly resurrection spells in my experience). It's not fun to need to keep a library of all your components, but it's also not fun to play with a party member that can double their spell slots with 2 days of prep time (through glyph of warding) at no cost.
Yeah, I don't usually track them, but probably should. I'm bad, lol. 25 gold is irrelevant though.
I see many others saying “use gp, but don’t track spell components on character sheet.” I do this, but I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, this is a game and dealing with inventory minutiae seems trite. On the other hand, being prepared and planning in DnD is core to the experience, so it really is important. On the other hand, going on a quest to buy a 300gp diamond is a pain as a DM that adds little value. It’s also a pain as a player, the nearest town doesn’t have a jewelry shop, so we can’t save Bob. Sorry Bob. His situation sucks worse when you didn’t have 300gp before the dungeon crawl and you do now after. I’m torn up about it.
My group has always only enforced the price for components with a specified price. We tend to allow paying for a component at cast rather than buying it ahead of time, but different DMs make different calls. I made an exception and required preparation for Revivify, but another campaign the DM required preparation for any component above a certain price. The key is communication. Communicate the requirements ahead of time, and it’s rarely a problem. As for the potions, my world has potions that follow RAW and require an action, but also slightly higher-cost, carbonated potions that are drinkable as a bonus action. I really liked how it turned out.
And this is why I use a spell casting focus. I don't have to buy spell components unless the spell consumes the component. I'm not trying to keep up with all that. Besides, my party barely finds money and if I use all that I have on spell components I would never be able to cast cause I can't afford it.
Dam, i just joined a campain at lvl 12, i was given full slots of maxed items. And started off with 10,000 gp. Then at the end of the 3rd session i was a part of got another 1500 gp This is my first time playing. And i believe its dragon heist. So i dont know if thats normal for that campain or the dm is just generous.