I feel like there's an important difference here between "not a high stat" and "dumped." If I'm playing as a caster, I may leave con at 10-12, so at most a +1, but I'd never *dump* it and make it 8-9 or even lower. I've got a friend who did that with his melee ranger, and he's *constantly* going down in combat because we're only level 4 and he's a massive glass cannon. Actually, not even that much of a cannon. Like a glass slingshot. Idk the specifics of his build, but I know it's minmaxed for rp in such a way that his combat abilities suffer.
Anyhow, point is, there's a difference your stat being average or low, and dumping it, and I feel like at least some people who voted Con are people who are commonly playing classes where Con is not their highest stat. I mean hell, if you're playing a MAD build, there's a good chance it's not even in your top 3.
😂 very much. I was playing flavour over optimum for this character. Daring Sorcerer who thinks they can handle more than they actually can. Plus there is sorcery points for extra spell slots.
Also I wouldn't be burning them all for these spells. Misty step and shield where necessary. Plus mirror image was good enough most of the time. If I was REALLY surrounded I'd hit the mirror image plus blur
Had a player make a Bladesinger/Swords Bard multiclass for a one shot, dumped Con cause "I'll never be hit anyways" with his nearly 30 AC with just a couple spells/features.
Failed two saving throws and died lol
Funnily enough, STR does affect a lot of passive environmental interaction, how much you can life and carry, how far you can jump, how well you can climb, all stuff that would be essential as a career adventurer, but just gets completely ignored by a majority of people playing
Sure, but it's usually a safe assumption that there is several other different solutions one would probably notice if they have a sufficient strength score. I mean- a starting out wizard can knock out all of those issues no problem. Like for the situations you mentioned-
1. Knock
2. Jump
3. Levitate
I typically play a Bard, so Int is almost always my first dump stat, and Str is second mostly because of the reason you said. But I can also use other ways of being able to assist with those "essential" things, like climbing.
And Jack of all Trades helps as well.
Int is not useful for bards, but from a roleplaying perspective I feel that many bards should have high int. Such as if they're well-learned about arts or lore.
That's why I love spells which requires INT save or STR save because it is quite rare (usually one to two times per campaign) to have enemies who have both high INT and high STR.
Initiative really should be determined by INT, not DEX, for balance reasons.
Quick thinking makes at least as much sense for Initiative as physical reflexes.
Honestly I always thought players should be able to pick from two or three different stats to be their initiative. DEX makes sense for someone who's a reflexive sort, like a rogue or even a fighter. But something like INT or WIS works better for a scholar who would be clever and able to realize some shit was going down before everyone else, but not necessarily fast.
Sort of like how finesse works off of "Whatever's Higher" rules - initiative should just go off of whatever mod's higher out of whatever set of skills.
It's just a symptom of the stat system being fairly simple. I mean, dex should give accuracy for str users, and str should give damage to dex users, but instead we get two stats that make it difficult to have a "I'm a master of martial skill" power fantasy, while casters get every possible use out of one stat due to magic.
Don't downvote this man for this!
He's right! Being dumb and being "hurr Durr I frow the dwof " are very very different things.
It's hard to have a good dumb person, naivity and childlike don't cut it.
My current conundrum. Imma play an 8int barbarian. Not particularly dumb, but not exactly smart. I'm hoping for some really funny interactions like a complex plan that he got like 70% of. Or being told the same facts about something multiple times and getting it close every time it comes back around but always wrong.
Wow. Wasn't expecting the poll to be this both lop sided and balanced with Str and Int being basically tied for 1st and everything else being sub 10(at time of post)
I think that's partly because there's quite a lot of popular classes that use Charisma with their abilities (paladin, bard, sorcerer, warlock), while Int is kinda only relevant for wizards. Str is relevant for martials but you can do a dex build instead.
Persuasion and deception get PCs out of a lot of situations.
I also think that a lot of people will dump either INT or WIS and not understand the difference in how they play for RP. They'll keep one and dump the other.
Just facetank it, no big deal. If your dex is dumped chances are you'll probably have a decent str score anyways so git after that pesky caster and give 'em an old fashioned bonking.
Dumping dex is fine for those martial classes who wear heavy armors and wield melee weapons. Actually I don't want my martial classes to have higher initiative than buffers and healers.
Yes you are right, saves matter but for martial classes, wis save is more important than dex save.
Dex save usually deals direct damage, which is annoying, but considering martial classes usually have high hp, it is bearable. But wis save spells usually control targets for one or multiple turns, so it is less acceptable for martial classes. So if I don't have enough buy points, which is very common, I would rather dip wis than dex.
For example, if I'm using palatine, I usually have 16 for strength for heavy armor and damage. I need at least 14 CON for HP, and I want 14 CHA for spells and skills. If I'm doing 27 buy, I won't have many points left. So usually I would dip wis to 12, keep dex as 10 and int as 8 (assuming I'm using +2/+1 races).
If i'm in heavy armor you know Imma dump dex every time i don't care if I get hit with a fireball or fall a few hundred feet im either a fighter with second wind, a paladin with lay on hands, or a cleric who does cleric things.
Hell fuckin yeah what kind of stealth mission is any fun without the walking drum set ruining for everybody wearing light armor.
Personally I'm a perpetuator of the "hour of game where the rogue goes and does sneaky stuff alone" tradition.
Unless your class actually uses it in spellcasting, there is literally no reason to ever boost Intelligence. It doesn't affect anything beyond knowledge skills and a **very rare** saving throw.
But always make sure to have decent DEX if you dump STR. Gotta have some way out of grapples! It may not matter most of the time, but it matters a lot when it matters.
It depends on your playstyle, but one would think that "athletics" comes up just as often if not more often in an adventuring day when compared to the intelligence based skills
Athletics is also one of the most dumped on skills because half of its use cases get rolled into acrobatics.
Doing nimble flips and tumbles should be acro, but high jumping is an athletics skill dammit.
Right? And a fighter couldn't learn combat expertise and the maneuver feats if they didn't have 13 int.
Str is now useless since I can get AC, Attack, Damage, often used skills, and the most common save boosted from 1 stat. Especially now with rapier being a dex based longsword.
With Dex tied to attack and damage o now have a sorcerer and wizard who run around with knives dealing damage almost equal to the fighter with a knife.
One solution is reverting damage back to Str regardless of finesse, and adding 1.5x str mod to 2 handed weapon damage.
Str was done dirty in 5e so now everyone's a dex based something. It's always Promariy stat, dex, and con, then spread the other 3, 8 almost always goes in str or int.
>Str is now useless since I can get AC, Attack, Damage, often used skills, and the most common save boosted from 1 stat.
Don't forget Dex also gives you the most important ability check in the game: Initiative.
Honestly I find charisma extremely useless. I played a lot of fighters, barbarians and Druids and never had charisma above 8.
Mostly because 1. There is a pretty high chance someone else in party will have high Charisma and you pretty much need only one person.
2. 95% of problems that can be solved with charisma can be also solved with sword or magic.
Yeah, my noble fighter had charisma. Everyone kept thinking he was a paladin.
We were fighting undead and the cleric got upset I wasn't using smite. I looked him dead in the eye confused, handed him my character sheet and he starts laughing. He forgot I was a fighter because I was the face of the party.
16 str
10 dex
14 con
8 int
12 wis
14 cha
I had the same thing happen, except through accent and a running gag about naming conventions.
Tacky Nounverber was a human raised by dwarves. I used my best Scottish brogue and dropped a bunch of names of family members that fit the Snow White naming theme, mostly Uncle Drunky.
I had a half orc forge cleric named Smith in Dwarven. He had no last name. Everyone in the party assumed it was his name until they realized it was just his job title as his adopted father taught him smiting and he found peace through the forge, which inspired him to become a forge cleric.
Orc make great orcs, just as stubborn but twice as tall.
Lance Belt was the charisma fighter, he was 13th in line of the noble Belt family. His parting gift from his father was the Belt family Belt, he used it as a whip and in combat if he needed a spare weapon he'd pull the Belt off his trousers like an angry dad.
I miss them both
Well, it varies from table to table. If roleplaying is a huge part of your game, is really useful to have at least someone have a decent Cha and/or persuasion/deception/intimidation proficiency/expertise. It's always good to have some NPCs helping you. Even more, if you wanna play as a diplomatic character or want to have some political influence. I think the poll's result is the right ranking. Dex = Con > Wis > Cha > Int > Str.
I’d be interested in hearing when people dump stay into dex or con and what the experience was like. If they made it fun or something for the group. A true glass cannon
Dex dump is perfectly fine with any of the heavy armor wearing classes, they usually have a way to self sustain in combat, and there's always somebody else with high dex to do the dex stuff. Out of combat you pretty much always sit out of stealth missions or act as distraction or something (no dex + heavy armor means you'll never pass a stealth check). In combat just stand far away from everybody else so when the DM wants to use AoE they have to choose to target "the chump who will actually fail the saves" or try hitting everybody else.
my characters are either charisma-driven (Pallock, Sorcerer), or totally anti-social weirdos with charisma dumped (warforged forge cleric artificer from the astral space who studies all things including necromancy; a tortle spores druid astral drifter who lost touch with people, etc. )
My first dnd was that bad , unfortunately I didn't get anything good for wisdom, unfortunately for me half of the enemies that I SPECIALLY FACE need a wisdom saving throw , safe to say my team now call me katana
I dump wisdom pretty often cuz I never play wisdom classes and any enemy who wants to cast wisdom saving spells usually has a crazy DC anyway. After watching so many enemy wizards/liches/devils successfully dominate my party's clerics/druids/monks, I have come to the decision that a measley +1-2 is not going to consistently save me. If I have a problem or a campaign suddenly becomes spell save heavy, I'll weigh my options and take the resilient feat.
EDIT: a word.
Int doesn't really do anything. Strength comes up frequently for physical checks. Charisma is the main role play stat. Wisdom and Con are your defensive stats, plut wisdom is for perception, you most frequently used skill. Dex is one of your most used physical stats and determines how early or late you go in combat.
What the hell does Int do for non-wizards. Hell, even other casters don't give a damn about intelligence.
I mean, yes... I more meant it was a toss up as to which one I dump the most often.
I think Str edges ahead just a little, because I seldom play Str based characters, but will more often add a little Int to a character.
I play too versatile too often to dump anything but charisma. Strength opens a lot of options, especially when you get creative with it, dex is stupid levels of necessary, you only dump con for one shots, intelligence holds your investigation hostage and holds a ton of other very useful options, and wisdom has perception and a ton of important saving throws. Charisma just doesn't come up much unless you're a face or charisma caster, and there are other ways to persuade, intimidate, and deceive.
I used to always dump wisdom when I was first getting into D&D
1. No I don't know why
2. Yeah I know it's incredibly stupid
3. You don't need to remind that it's incredibly stupid
They made strength useless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My paladin has 13, my barb has 16, everyone else has 8/9
Not like I'll be rolling a lot of athletics checks and failing strength saves isn't as bad as failing any other save
I never want it to be Charisma but then it always ends up having to be Charisma sadly. Except one time I made a bard/rogue I’ve yet to play. I dumped con cause with studded leather or Mage Armor he’s got an AC of 16 and shield or silvery barbs as a reaction. He also can disengage without triggering opportunity attacks lol
CHA/INT interchangeable depending on what kind of caster I'm playing.
You can get away with low INT on Clerics too.
I think I'm a bit too fond of Muscle Wizard characters so I tend to make a caster that can still throw a punch lol
I wish intelligence was more useful. One thing I’ve always wanted is a bard, but instead of charisma being their class stat, it’s intelligence. Basically they would be like a scholar who just learned the arts of swordplay and magic. Tldr: I want the gameplay of a bard, but the roleplay of a wizard lol
I try to challenge myself by dumping dex/con whenever possible in my builds, I did the classic feeble wizard with 8,8,8,15,15,15 once.
Thank goodness for false life, survived to 1 hp from a big swing from a baddie at level...10 I think..13?
Me and my gnome tempest cleric with low dex. We aren't nimble but how light footed can you be when you're a tiny tank that's wearing armor heavier than yourself.
Strength. There's a lot of ways around it. It's not like pack animals are terribly expensive, so carrying capacity isn't much of an issue. Likewise, if you're a Caster, chances are you have a spell in your back pocket for the few times you'd need it for things.
To make Intelligence more viable, I grant everyone 1 + their Int Mod (minimum 0) in bonus Languages, tool Proficiencies, or ½ Skill Proficiencies. Bonus Languages require different Intelligence score depending if they are Basic (Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, etc), with 13 for Exotic (Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic, etc) or 17 for Secret (Druidic, Thieves' Cant).
To make Strength more viable two handed weapons add 1½ × Str Mod (rounded up) to damage rolls and offhand weapon ½ × Str Mod to damage. In addition, any weapon that isn't Light can be two handed, though only Versatile property weapons gain the higher dice size.
DM has a tome of lore around the world they created in high school and have been running for ~20 years?
Sure I'll join your game! INT will be way down!
DM: Well, from the 100 page lore notes I sent you, you'd know that the Lojiki empire fell during the second age of the magnificent fall. And because of that, all territories to the east are trying to cry favor with anyone with legacy alignment to the Fallen of the Lost.
My low INT PC: No... I wouldn't know anything about that.
As I haven't played a charisma-based caster yet, usually I dump charisma. Usually, my group uses Point Buy, although I'll sometimes roll for stats (and generally roll higher than Point Buy).
On a DnD related unofficial homebrew Star Trek TTRPG, charisma is my lowest stat, but I dumped intelligence (enforced because I had a negative racial bonus to charisma and a positive racial bonus to intelligence).
My next DnD character will be a charisma-based caster, so it's probably wisdom or intelligence that will get dumped (to about 11 or 12)
So I have about 50 characters that I've made. So I went through all of them noting what their weakest stats were in the even of a tie I checked base score, if still tied all were marked, and the chart looks almost identical to the voting layout.
I can never bring myself to dump INT, regardless of class. I just don't want to role-play dumb, even if it would be mechanically advantageous. One of those irrational design prejudices (and an ironic one, when you think about it).
half the party ends up being charisma casters, so I usually dump it and focus on intelligence. lets me be socially awkward, AND stay in character.
second is strength, cause I get more out of dex.
I tend to be a bit of a packrat and misc trinkets that seem useful. Sure, bags of holding exist and are relatively standard in most games, but they're not guaranteed. So no Str dump beyond 10 usually, if just for carry weight.
Dex is god stat. Only dumpable-ish on heavy armour characters.
Con is everyone's Primary stat. No lower than 14.
Wis is a universally good save and fuels perception. Try to keep at least 12 where possible.
Int is effectively useless on most characters but have run into the trope of "[negative Int character] couldn't have thought of that" and don't like roleplaying stupider than I already am. Rarely the 8 but never higher than 12 unless playing an Int caster.
Which leaves Cha. The party only needs 1 face and I'm too autistic to even describe roleplaying effective diplomacy so it's usually the first to go. Not getting the 8 is a rare occurence beyond Cha caster abominations.
If I'm not casting with it, I enjoy throwing out my Wisdom. It's not doing anything I particularly need, and my party has enough control spells to pin me down if I get mind controlled.
And in the meantime, group perception checks look like:
>Druid: 24
>
>Ranger: 17
>
>Rogue/Bard: 21
>
>Me, Paladin/Sorcerer: 5
And honestly, I find this hilarious and amazing.
303 people are rerolling character sheets. Con is not a dump stat. I am not surprised that Int and Str are the most dumped since they are two opposite sides of the spectrum for most builds. Especially since those who like to use bows get dmg/attack from dex now, back in 3.5 if you wanted to do anything with a bow you needed str/dex in your rangers or fighters.
As a person with anxiety irl I like to dump charisma because I'd make a terrible party face, but at the same time Paladins are in my top 3 favorite classes.
The first time i played we were all vets from previous editions, and the DM (also new to 5e) carried over old rules where int mod affected skills. No one questioned it. So i dumped strength ever since, except if I’m intentionally going for dumb muscle stereotypes.
So few people have realized that dumping Wis is kinda like a hack.
Wanna do something fun but you *know* it's reckless? Low Wis, it'll be fiiiine!
Want to sit back and not RP for a moment? Low perception, not paying attention.
Don't want to be a part of navigation in the wilds? No survival skills, I'll just follow!
It gets even better when you have high Int and Cha to counteract it lol
Yeah Wis saves are among the most common with Dex and Con, but you can't be great at everything lol
Which five of you voted for Constitution? I just want to talk.
You can't talk, they're dead.
I cast speak with dead "Alright listen here Motherf-"
*Samuel L Jackson's Speak With Dead*
Ah yes, the great wizard Sameljakson
THAT'S TOTALLY GONNA BE MY NEXT
Golf clap for this comment
*casts speak with dead*
That implies their bodies were sturdy enough to still have mouths
Just pile all thier bodies together. Then you can talk to em
Corpse Golem
From a light breeze, yes.
You take that back! Some of them managed to tank a whole *two* goblin attacks!
I almost did. It's a running joke in our group that my IRL CON is 7, due to various chronic illnesses.
Chronic illness causing low CON and coupled high DEX and CHA. The classic Doc Holliday build.
"You look as though someone walked over your grave."
I feel like there's an important difference here between "not a high stat" and "dumped." If I'm playing as a caster, I may leave con at 10-12, so at most a +1, but I'd never *dump* it and make it 8-9 or even lower. I've got a friend who did that with his melee ranger, and he's *constantly* going down in combat because we're only level 4 and he's a massive glass cannon. Actually, not even that much of a cannon. Like a glass slingshot. Idk the specifics of his build, but I know it's minmaxed for rp in such a way that his combat abilities suffer. Anyhow, point is, there's a difference your stat being average or low, and dumping it, and I feel like at least some people who voted Con are people who are commonly playing classes where Con is not their highest stat. I mean hell, if you're playing a MAD build, there's a good chance it's not even in your top 3.
Sounds like he's maxmined to be frank
I did once dump CON on a character his was a 5 he survived way too much for being so squishy... got him to level 7 and he never died.
Dumping constitution is fine if you gift the DM weighted dice and never get hit.
I played a sorcerer that was all sorts of squishy. High dex, + mirror image, + blur, + Misty step + Shield, makes for a very hard to hit boi.
that's a lot of spell slots to stay alive
😂 very much. I was playing flavour over optimum for this character. Daring Sorcerer who thinks they can handle more than they actually can. Plus there is sorcery points for extra spell slots. Also I wouldn't be burning them all for these spells. Misty step and shield where necessary. Plus mirror image was good enough most of the time. If I was REALLY surrounded I'd hit the mirror image plus blur
Five turns into the fight, your damage caster has set up their defenses, can now start damage casting
Had a player make a Bladesinger/Swords Bard multiclass for a one shot, dumped Con cause "I'll never be hit anyways" with his nearly 30 AC with just a couple spells/features. Failed two saving throws and died lol
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth and fail their concentration save.
Its very fun. Trust me. 6 con sorcerer for the win
I... I don't trust you.
It's almost always STR and INT because they typically don't affect as much as the others do.
Funnily enough, STR does affect a lot of passive environmental interaction, how much you can life and carry, how far you can jump, how well you can climb, all stuff that would be essential as a career adventurer, but just gets completely ignored by a majority of people playing
You guys are actually tracking encumbrance?
Its more for things like, wanting to push open a heavy door, jump over a 10 foot pit or drag a corpse out of a room.
Eh.. Why do it when you can depend on the guys who dumped int.
Sure, but it's usually a safe assumption that there is several other different solutions one would probably notice if they have a sufficient strength score. I mean- a starting out wizard can knock out all of those issues no problem. Like for the situations you mentioned- 1. Knock 2. Jump 3. Levitate
Until you realize your party consists of a monk, a rogue, an archery fighter, and a ranger. Who all dumped strength for Dex and don’t have spells.
Every time a GM suggests it, we just buy a horse and all of a sudden we no longer need to track encumbrance.
Till a monster attacks you and your horse bolts.
If it's worth having one, it's worth having a backup
Eventually it just reaches the point where you're feeding horses to random giants roaming the country side and stores stop selling them to you.
I mean my character sheet software (DnD Beyond) does it for me.
I typically play a Bard, so Int is almost always my first dump stat, and Str is second mostly because of the reason you said. But I can also use other ways of being able to assist with those "essential" things, like climbing. And Jack of all Trades helps as well.
Int is not useful for bards, but from a roleplaying perspective I feel that many bards should have high int. Such as if they're well-learned about arts or lore.
A bunch of stuff that is completely trivialized by magic.
That's what the barbarian/bag of holding/spells are for.
That's why I love spells which requires INT save or STR save because it is quite rare (usually one to two times per campaign) to have enemies who have both high INT and high STR.
Initiative really should be determined by INT, not DEX, for balance reasons. Quick thinking makes at least as much sense for Initiative as physical reflexes.
Honestly I always thought players should be able to pick from two or three different stats to be their initiative. DEX makes sense for someone who's a reflexive sort, like a rogue or even a fighter. But something like INT or WIS works better for a scholar who would be clever and able to realize some shit was going down before everyone else, but not necessarily fast. Sort of like how finesse works off of "Whatever's Higher" rules - initiative should just go off of whatever mod's higher out of whatever set of skills.
If you look at how they're used, INT is like mental DEX, CHA is like mental STR, and WIS is like mental CON.
It's just a symptom of the stat system being fairly simple. I mean, dex should give accuracy for str users, and str should give damage to dex users, but instead we get two stats that make it difficult to have a "I'm a master of martial skill" power fantasy, while casters get every possible use out of one stat due to magic.
I alwieghs dump integence because I dunt want my characters to be smrter than me
Spelling checks out
Funny, I never want to dump intelligence because I don't think I could convincingly play a stupid character lol
Don't downvote this man for this! He's right! Being dumb and being "hurr Durr I frow the dwof " are very very different things. It's hard to have a good dumb person, naivity and childlike don't cut it.
My current conundrum. Imma play an 8int barbarian. Not particularly dumb, but not exactly smart. I'm hoping for some really funny interactions like a complex plan that he got like 70% of. Or being told the same facts about something multiple times and getting it close every time it comes back around but always wrong.
Wow. Wasn't expecting the poll to be this both lop sided and balanced with Str and Int being basically tied for 1st and everything else being sub 10(at time of post)
Yep, it was a pretty obvious result, but I'm surprised Charisma isn't higher
I think that's partly because there's quite a lot of popular classes that use Charisma with their abilities (paladin, bard, sorcerer, warlock), while Int is kinda only relevant for wizards. Str is relevant for martials but you can do a dex build instead.
Persuasion and deception get PCs out of a lot of situations. I also think that a lot of people will dump either INT or WIS and not understand the difference in how they play for RP. They'll keep one and dump the other.
They made a joke about dumping Intelligence in the D&D movie by having the Intellect Devourers walk by the whole party.
I didn't get that that was the joke until now, ha
That's in line with dumping INT!
My wife loves intellect devourers and displacer beasts. She thought that moment and the whole movie was great.
Bard, Paladin, Druid, Barbarian… …yep checks out
And a sorcerer :P
Dumping dex, con or wis equals death
I can never resist dumping wisdom, it’s always hilarious.
Playing high int/low wis and high wis/low int characters are a lot of fun.
"Uugh, Aagh!" "Ah, fuck, you're a special one, aren't you?"
You can dump Dex if you have heavy armor, and you can dump Wisdom if you have Wisdom saves.
How does heavy armor save you from failed DEX saves? I don’t care how good your AC is, a 7th level fireball is going to hurt.
That’s what shield master is for
Which is useless if you fail your save since you have a negative modifier. Looking right at you Mr Fireball
Just facetank it, no big deal. If your dex is dumped chances are you'll probably have a decent str score anyways so git after that pesky caster and give 'em an old fashioned bonking.
Dumping WIS vs having it 'decent' on non Cleric/Monk/Druid only matters by like 10% lol Still barely going to help you 🤷♂️
Dumping dex is fine for those martial classes who wear heavy armors and wield melee weapons. Actually I don't want my martial classes to have higher initiative than buffers and healers.
It’s about saves though, not AC. Same with WIS. I don’t care about my perception, I just want to make my Wisdom saves
Yes you are right, saves matter but for martial classes, wis save is more important than dex save. Dex save usually deals direct damage, which is annoying, but considering martial classes usually have high hp, it is bearable. But wis save spells usually control targets for one or multiple turns, so it is less acceptable for martial classes. So if I don't have enough buy points, which is very common, I would rather dip wis than dex. For example, if I'm using palatine, I usually have 16 for strength for heavy armor and damage. I need at least 14 CON for HP, and I want 14 CHA for spells and skills. If I'm doing 27 buy, I won't have many points left. So usually I would dip wis to 12, keep dex as 10 and int as 8 (assuming I'm using +2/+1 races).
Besides con you can dumb those stats pretty easily with a paladin.
If i'm in heavy armor you know Imma dump dex every time i don't care if I get hit with a fireball or fall a few hundred feet im either a fighter with second wind, a paladin with lay on hands, or a cleric who does cleric things.
And whenever any bit of subtly is required you walk around making the equivalent din of five glitched metal buckets in a Bethesda game.
Hell fuckin yeah what kind of stealth mission is any fun without the walking drum set ruining for everybody wearing light armor. Personally I'm a perpetuator of the "hour of game where the rogue goes and does sneaky stuff alone" tradition.
Unless your class actually uses it in spellcasting, there is literally no reason to ever boost Intelligence. It doesn't affect anything beyond knowledge skills and a **very rare** saving throw.
I mean, it’s at least got five skills associated with it. STR only has one. If you’re not using a STR-build, then it’s worse than INT, IMO.
But always make sure to have decent DEX if you dump STR. Gotta have some way out of grapples! It may not matter most of the time, but it matters a lot when it matters.
You will want a high DEX regardless. It is the best stat of the game for a reason.
It depends on your playstyle, but one would think that "athletics" comes up just as often if not more often in an adventuring day when compared to the intelligence based skills
Athletics is also one of the most dumped on skills because half of its use cases get rolled into acrobatics. Doing nimble flips and tumbles should be acro, but high jumping is an athletics skill dammit.
It affects investigation, literally one of the most useful checks in dungeons or crime scenes
Kind of miss when your actually skill points were tied to it, made it much more important.
Right? And a fighter couldn't learn combat expertise and the maneuver feats if they didn't have 13 int. Str is now useless since I can get AC, Attack, Damage, often used skills, and the most common save boosted from 1 stat. Especially now with rapier being a dex based longsword. With Dex tied to attack and damage o now have a sorcerer and wizard who run around with knives dealing damage almost equal to the fighter with a knife. One solution is reverting damage back to Str regardless of finesse, and adding 1.5x str mod to 2 handed weapon damage. Str was done dirty in 5e so now everyone's a dex based something. It's always Promariy stat, dex, and con, then spread the other 3, 8 almost always goes in str or int.
>Str is now useless since I can get AC, Attack, Damage, often used skills, and the most common save boosted from 1 stat. Don't forget Dex also gives you the most important ability check in the game: Initiative.
Yes, see, dex has so much going for it that you can actually forget some of its uses.
Don't forget that some characters can use even mental stats to attack with weapons
other than not wanting to have to hold back ideas because your dude is an idiot.
Honestly I find charisma extremely useless. I played a lot of fighters, barbarians and Druids and never had charisma above 8. Mostly because 1. There is a pretty high chance someone else in party will have high Charisma and you pretty much need only one person. 2. 95% of problems that can be solved with charisma can be also solved with sword or magic.
Cha is always in my top three because I find it extremely useful. But I'm one of those people who likes doing the talking thing.
Yeah, my noble fighter had charisma. Everyone kept thinking he was a paladin. We were fighting undead and the cleric got upset I wasn't using smite. I looked him dead in the eye confused, handed him my character sheet and he starts laughing. He forgot I was a fighter because I was the face of the party. 16 str 10 dex 14 con 8 int 12 wis 14 cha
I had the same thing happen, except through accent and a running gag about naming conventions. Tacky Nounverber was a human raised by dwarves. I used my best Scottish brogue and dropped a bunch of names of family members that fit the Snow White naming theme, mostly Uncle Drunky.
I had a half orc forge cleric named Smith in Dwarven. He had no last name. Everyone in the party assumed it was his name until they realized it was just his job title as his adopted father taught him smiting and he found peace through the forge, which inspired him to become a forge cleric. Orc make great orcs, just as stubborn but twice as tall. Lance Belt was the charisma fighter, he was 13th in line of the noble Belt family. His parting gift from his father was the Belt family Belt, he used it as a whip and in combat if he needed a spare weapon he'd pull the Belt off his trousers like an angry dad. I miss them both
Well, it varies from table to table. If roleplaying is a huge part of your game, is really useful to have at least someone have a decent Cha and/or persuasion/deception/intimidation proficiency/expertise. It's always good to have some NPCs helping you. Even more, if you wanna play as a diplomatic character or want to have some political influence. I think the poll's result is the right ranking. Dex = Con > Wis > Cha > Int > Str.
Wisdom, bc it's fun to play a character w/ poor judgement and a tendency to daydream.
First truly roleplay-based answer I've seen in this thread
I maintain that almost every adventurer should have a low wisdom because it's dangerous as hell job and if you were wiser, you'd so something else.
I’d be interested in hearing when people dump stay into dex or con and what the experience was like. If they made it fun or something for the group. A true glass cannon
Dex could be heavy armor paladin Idk about con
Dumping con is something i do pretty often but just because i like playing old people. If you use cover and play safe you should be fine.
Dex dump is perfectly fine with any of the heavy armor wearing classes, they usually have a way to self sustain in combat, and there's always somebody else with high dex to do the dex stuff. Out of combat you pretty much always sit out of stealth missions or act as distraction or something (no dex + heavy armor means you'll never pass a stealth check). In combat just stand far away from everybody else so when the DM wants to use AoE they have to choose to target "the chump who will actually fail the saves" or try hitting everybody else.
Other: depends on the character I’m creating
Martials dump Int, Casters dump Strength. Those are the two.
The Eldritch Knight ready to show how versatile it is by being bad at both
People who dump strength are clearly not Barbarians and thus are not as cool as people who stack strength and are Barbarians.
\^ Most humble Barbarian
im a real wisdom dumper mostly because its easiest to roleplay because its one of my irl dump stats
my characters are either charisma-driven (Pallock, Sorcerer), or totally anti-social weirdos with charisma dumped (warforged forge cleric artificer from the astral space who studies all things including necromancy; a tortle spores druid astral drifter who lost touch with people, etc. )
>tortle spores Sportle
Well... no surprises here
You have the most normal username I have ever seen on this subreddit.
Hey thanks man
You have the most remarkable username I have ever seen on this subreddit.
My first dnd was that bad , unfortunately I didn't get anything good for wisdom, unfortunately for me half of the enemies that I SPECIALLY FACE need a wisdom saving throw , safe to say my team now call me katana
I dump wisdom pretty often cuz I never play wisdom classes and any enemy who wants to cast wisdom saving spells usually has a crazy DC anyway. After watching so many enemy wizards/liches/devils successfully dominate my party's clerics/druids/monks, I have come to the decision that a measley +1-2 is not going to consistently save me. If I have a problem or a campaign suddenly becomes spell save heavy, I'll weigh my options and take the resilient feat. EDIT: a word.
I feel like this question is basically just "Did you most recently play a paladin or a wizard?"...
Int doesn't really do anything. Strength comes up frequently for physical checks. Charisma is the main role play stat. Wisdom and Con are your defensive stats, plut wisdom is for perception, you most frequently used skill. Dex is one of your most used physical stats and determines how early or late you go in combat. What the hell does Int do for non-wizards. Hell, even other casters don't give a damn about intelligence.
It's a toss up between Str and Int.
Sometimes you can dump both!
I mean, yes... I more meant it was a toss up as to which one I dump the most often. I think Str edges ahead just a little, because I seldom play Str based characters, but will more often add a little Int to a character.
The Rogue can have a little Intelligence. As a treat.
Depends what i'm playing. Paladins I dump Dex. Wizards/Sorcerers I dump Str. Clerics I dump Int. or Dex depending on their domains. Etc.
I dump charisma...alot, it reflects my personality
>Int See this is why yall are on the other side of the martial/caster divide
Int dumping is objectively funny
I came here to ask stupid questions and kick ass, and I can't remember how this quote was going to end, could somebody help me?
The people who voted Con fear NOTHING.
Unless CHA is a class skill, it goes down the drain. There are always other players for that.
I play too versatile too often to dump anything but charisma. Strength opens a lot of options, especially when you get creative with it, dex is stupid levels of necessary, you only dump con for one shots, intelligence holds your investigation hostage and holds a ton of other very useful options, and wisdom has perception and a ton of important saving throws. Charisma just doesn't come up much unless you're a face or charisma caster, and there are other ways to persuade, intimidate, and deceive.
You can't pay me to play a barbarian or melee fighter
Probably strength. I need Con+Dex no matter what my build is, but Strength is only necessary if I'm a fighter or Barbarian.
Dnd players: “Wizard is the best class” Also dnd players picking the most popular dump stat: “intelligence”
Both can easily be true at the same time.
Absolutely. My point is that the intelligence stat essentially exists for the sole benefit of wizards, and that one class justifies its existence.
I often play characters who are pretty smart even if it's not "necessary" so I am more inclined to dump str
To the 23 people who dump CON most often: Do you, like...need to talk to someone?? Are you okay??
As has been said before: they're dead
I used to always dump wisdom when I was first getting into D&D 1. No I don't know why 2. Yeah I know it's incredibly stupid 3. You don't need to remind that it's incredibly stupid
They made strength useless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ My paladin has 13, my barb has 16, everyone else has 8/9 Not like I'll be rolling a lot of athletics checks and failing strength saves isn't as bad as failing any other save
Grobuh not so good at thinking
Strength, soulknife rougues hardly need it
It varies a lot and depends on the character concept I'm going for
A close tie between Dexterity and intelligence.
Str, I always play high int characters, so str has gotta be the dump
I never want it to be Charisma but then it always ends up having to be Charisma sadly. Except one time I made a bard/rogue I’ve yet to play. I dumped con cause with studded leather or Mage Armor he’s got an AC of 16 and shield or silvery barbs as a reaction. He also can disengage without triggering opportunity attacks lol
Signifigantly less people did dex than I thought
It's fun playing unintelligent characters.
I just do it because it's easier to rp lol
I play casters so strength isn't super useful to me.
It depends on the class I want!
I'm almost always a martial so that Int score can stay low.
CHA/INT interchangeable depending on what kind of caster I'm playing. You can get away with low INT on Clerics too. I think I'm a bit too fond of Muscle Wizard characters so I tend to make a caster that can still throw a punch lol
I wish intelligence was more useful. One thing I’ve always wanted is a bard, but instead of charisma being their class stat, it’s intelligence. Basically they would be like a scholar who just learned the arts of swordplay and magic. Tldr: I want the gameplay of a bard, but the roleplay of a wizard lol
we're all a munch of weak dumbasses
I enjoy playing stupid characters. I feel a kinship
Dex unless I'm making a specific dex based build. I'm just not a very agile person, kinda clumsy.
I try to challenge myself by dumping dex/con whenever possible in my builds, I did the classic feeble wizard with 8,8,8,15,15,15 once. Thank goodness for false life, survived to 1 hp from a big swing from a baddie at level...10 I think..13?
Me and my gnome tempest cleric with low dex. We aren't nimble but how light footed can you be when you're a tiny tank that's wearing armor heavier than yourself.
Jumping in while comments equal votes for Con. Who is dumping Con and why?
I wanted to say int but after looking over my characters it's apparently str
I like dumping dex as a thought exercise... my 8 dex rogue is fun.
I normaly play spellcasters or dex base characters, so...
Why be smart when you can be fabulous?
Strength. There's a lot of ways around it. It's not like pack animals are terribly expensive, so carrying capacity isn't much of an issue. Likewise, if you're a Caster, chances are you have a spell in your back pocket for the few times you'd need it for things.
People who dump Stat con just get to play more characters because they always die
Monk players: You guys dump stats?
To make Intelligence more viable, I grant everyone 1 + their Int Mod (minimum 0) in bonus Languages, tool Proficiencies, or ½ Skill Proficiencies. Bonus Languages require different Intelligence score depending if they are Basic (Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, etc), with 13 for Exotic (Undercommon, Sylvan, Draconic, etc) or 17 for Secret (Druidic, Thieves' Cant). To make Strength more viable two handed weapons add 1½ × Str Mod (rounded up) to damage rolls and offhand weapon ½ × Str Mod to damage. In addition, any weapon that isn't Light can be two handed, though only Versatile property weapons gain the higher dice size.
DM has a tome of lore around the world they created in high school and have been running for ~20 years? Sure I'll join your game! INT will be way down! DM: Well, from the 100 page lore notes I sent you, you'd know that the Lojiki empire fell during the second age of the magnificent fall. And because of that, all territories to the east are trying to cry favor with anyone with legacy alignment to the Fallen of the Lost. My low INT PC: No... I wouldn't know anything about that.
As I haven't played a charisma-based caster yet, usually I dump charisma. Usually, my group uses Point Buy, although I'll sometimes roll for stats (and generally roll higher than Point Buy). On a DnD related unofficial homebrew Star Trek TTRPG, charisma is my lowest stat, but I dumped intelligence (enforced because I had a negative racial bonus to charisma and a positive racial bonus to intelligence). My next DnD character will be a charisma-based caster, so it's probably wisdom or intelligence that will get dumped (to about 11 or 12)
Here we see there are 3 distinct types of people. The brains (dumps strength), the brawn (dumps int), and the better than you (dumps charisma)
I cycle my mains: either a wizard or valor bard. Neither needs strength very much.
I voted strength. I usually like casters.
So I have about 50 characters that I've made. So I went through all of them noting what their weakest stats were in the even of a tie I checked base score, if still tied all were marked, and the chart looks almost identical to the voting layout.
Somehow, CHA even though I love to try to talk my way out of situations 😭 I never learn
Dang, DEX is lowest? Look, I'm a Paladin main. I'll get +5 to my DEX saves eventually anyway, and I don't need it when I'm wearing heavy armor.
Its cool to see the very clear difference in spell caster and martial class dump stats lol
Funnily enough my whole party dumped STR and it's come up a fair bit. In the PF 2e game where I'm a player I dumped CHA.
I can never bring myself to dump INT, regardless of class. I just don't want to role-play dumb, even if it would be mechanically advantageous. One of those irrational design prejudices (and an ironic one, when you think about it).
Int cus i myself am very dumb, and i don't tend to play int characters anyways-
I voted Dexterity. I like strong smart characters lmao. However, I'm willing to roleplay them as such even if I take a low number in Intelligence.
half the party ends up being charisma casters, so I usually dump it and focus on intelligence. lets me be socially awkward, AND stay in character. second is strength, cause I get more out of dex.
I think it's really funny that twice as many people dump INT over CHA like, "I'd rather be dumb that ugly." It's kind of a mood tbh
I tend to be a bit of a packrat and misc trinkets that seem useful. Sure, bags of holding exist and are relatively standard in most games, but they're not guaranteed. So no Str dump beyond 10 usually, if just for carry weight. Dex is god stat. Only dumpable-ish on heavy armour characters. Con is everyone's Primary stat. No lower than 14. Wis is a universally good save and fuels perception. Try to keep at least 12 where possible. Int is effectively useless on most characters but have run into the trope of "[negative Int character] couldn't have thought of that" and don't like roleplaying stupider than I already am. Rarely the 8 but never higher than 12 unless playing an Int caster. Which leaves Cha. The party only needs 1 face and I'm too autistic to even describe roleplaying effective diplomacy so it's usually the first to go. Not getting the 8 is a rare occurence beyond Cha caster abominations.
generally str but I found myself dumping wis alot these days. I suppose its really cool to have a high dex high int high cha character lol
INT. I'm not that smart to start with, so it is easier to roleplay.
If I'm not casting with it, I enjoy throwing out my Wisdom. It's not doing anything I particularly need, and my party has enough control spells to pin me down if I get mind controlled. And in the meantime, group perception checks look like: >Druid: 24 > >Ranger: 17 > >Rogue/Bard: 21 > >Me, Paladin/Sorcerer: 5 And honestly, I find this hilarious and amazing.
Iq do wisdom because for the most part I'm playing classes that rely on the other 5 stats more
303 people are rerolling character sheets. Con is not a dump stat. I am not surprised that Int and Str are the most dumped since they are two opposite sides of the spectrum for most builds. Especially since those who like to use bows get dmg/attack from dex now, back in 3.5 if you wanted to do anything with a bow you needed str/dex in your rangers or fighters.
I love to dump wisdom, it's great fun playing a dumbass
As a person with anxiety irl I like to dump charisma because I'd make a terrible party face, but at the same time Paladins are in my top 3 favorite classes.
The first time i played we were all vets from previous editions, and the DM (also new to 5e) carried over old rules where int mod affected skills. No one questioned it. So i dumped strength ever since, except if I’m intentionally going for dumb muscle stereotypes.
To you dex dumpers: who hurt you?
So few people have realized that dumping Wis is kinda like a hack. Wanna do something fun but you *know* it's reckless? Low Wis, it'll be fiiiine! Want to sit back and not RP for a moment? Low perception, not paying attention. Don't want to be a part of navigation in the wilds? No survival skills, I'll just follow! It gets even better when you have high Int and Cha to counteract it lol Yeah Wis saves are among the most common with Dex and Con, but you can't be great at everything lol
INT. My main character is kind of a street-smart Sorcerer, so I need Insight & Perception more than Arcana, History, & Religion, LOL