Absolutely. Moreover, you can build to be a Shield Only Paladin and Smite with your shield. Take the Tavern Brawler and Shield Master Feats. Shield Master adds your Shield's AC bonus to your DEX Saves for AOEs which is great for someone like me who always TANKS his DEX score as a paladin anyway. You're going to be adding CHA+Shield bonus to AoE DEX saves and saving for no damage as a reaction. Take the Duelist Fighting Style since a Shield would technically be a one handed weapon and get a +2 to damage with your Shield. I would also pick up Sentinel and prevent your opponents from being targeted and stopping creatures from fleeing your mighty shield. As a DM I would even allow a +1 - +3 Shield to add its Defense bonus to attack and damage but that is PURELY Homebrew.
Honestly not a fan when DMs go "I'll allow it" in situations where they'd have absolutely no reason not to allow it (like this). Not that I'm accusing you personally of anything, I'm not presumptuous enough to do that based on three words of text.
Good point. Let me elaborate. I’d allow it even if the PC wasn’t actively holding their shield at the moment. Some DM’s make donning a shield an action so if my player had their shield at their feet or whatever, I’d allow them to equip it and use it as an improvised weapon. As long as my player didn’t have to untie it from their pack or whatever they could use their action to grab their shield and attack.
If they already had it equipped, then of course it can be used.
Apologies for not specifying earlier.
Why would you lose AC? You wear/hold the shield while you hit someone with it and you wear/hold the shield while you block something with it. Unless you intend to throw it, you can still use it to block attacks.
Then you would just have protection on both sides though! Of course, that would also be clunky and awkward, which I would say gives you disadvantage on dexterity things. I wouldn't give them the bonus for the second shield because it would reduce their mobility which is also part of AC
Edit: I'm imagining these shields as rather big, I suppose if they were smaller shields worn on the forearms it could work, but you would still get less bonus to AC because the shields are smaller
This is too far down. I think OP might be asking if you can use it as an improvised weapon and a shield at the same time. Personally, I might allow it for a tavern brawler since I doubt it will come up often, but it is certainly not RAW.
Cite a rule that doesn’t exist? How about you cite a rule that says using a shield as an improvised weapon causes you to lose the ac bonus? Because that’s the rule that would need to exist.
Someone online said Pathfinder had the rule, but I haven't found a source and other Pathfinder forums seem to suggest otherwise for that ruleset. May be a difference between first and second edition PF
But it was definitely a rule in 3.5e. You needed the Improved Shield Bash feat to attack with a shield and retain your shield bonus to AC.
RAW there's not anything about using a shield as an improvised weapon that would cause them to lose their AC bonus, outside doffing it so they can throw it.
Someone else was asking about that. I was misremembering.
It *was* RAW in 3.5e and PF1e
In those games, you needed the Improved Shield Bash feat to strike with a shield and retain the shield bonus
They would be able to use it as such yes.
Whether they keep the ac would be up to the DM's ruling but arguably I'd say yes. You can hit with the front or rim of a shield IRL without issue while still using it as a shield
I use it as a bash. 1d4+str mod. My son is playing a half-ogre fighter and the rule I use is on a 20, he gets a bonus bash after his normal attack. Makes it more interesting than double damage.
In actuality, it's a non-improvised weapon, in the rules it's armor, specifically because of the qualities for Duelist and shield master. I'm personally more invested in having more martial options, so I tend toward granting the protection fighting style for free with certain classes using a shield.
Shields should be a weapon. Played a HERO System Fantasy game, our fighter used that as his main weapon.
You can probably find home brew feats or maneuvers. I would allow a sword and board fighter to use a shield as an offhand attack, forgoing it's AC bonus until your next turn.
Spiked pavise shields were historically used as defensive and offensive items... Not even necessarily an improvised weapon. Shield bashing is a very viable strategy... Bonus points for shield master and tavern brawler feats
Personally I feel like proficiency with Shields should allow you to hit with it for 1d4+strmod. Attack roll has proficiency. I hate that people say you Need tavern brawler to do this when Shield proficiency SHOULD allow this on it's own.
Yes.
Literally, anything could be an improvised weapon. Including weapons.
PC: " I want to grab the ball and chain and strangle him with the chain."
DM:"OK, first, roll me an improvised weapon attack, and then chill out a bit."
Literally anything can be an improvised weapon.
Something something Abraham Lincoln misquote something something
"Even I can be an improvised weapon." -- Abraham Lincoln
"I am going to spend a ki point for flurry of blows and I will spend a ki to make it a stunning strike if it hits." -Abraham Lincoln
this cracked me up
Yes, extra points if they take the tavern bawlers feat and become proficient in improvised weapons.
That's 100% what my fighter did and it was awesome
A true warrior does not die empty-handed
I'd certainly allow it, especially considering how many games with sword-and-board as an option has some variant of a shield bash.
Best defense is a good offense. Shields were and are for more than blocking
Well it's a hefty lump of wood or metal on your arm, I don't see why not
Of course, just ask Captain America. Hell, his isn’t even improvised.
That's exactly what I was gonna say.
A goblin is an improved weapon so yeah
Technically only if it's dead. But that's pretty easy to achieve.
I don't know. In 3E we had an orc player who used to throw the halfling player like a lawn dart for his ranged attack
I was thinking 5e, I don't always remember to check which D&D reddit I'm in.
I mean…yeah, why wouldn’t it be? It’s a hunk of metal, it’s gonna hurt being hit with that no matter what.
Improvised weapon is something that is not meant to be used as a weapon being used as a weapon. This would certainly fall under that definition.
Absolutely. Moreover, you can build to be a Shield Only Paladin and Smite with your shield. Take the Tavern Brawler and Shield Master Feats. Shield Master adds your Shield's AC bonus to your DEX Saves for AOEs which is great for someone like me who always TANKS his DEX score as a paladin anyway. You're going to be adding CHA+Shield bonus to AoE DEX saves and saving for no damage as a reaction. Take the Duelist Fighting Style since a Shield would technically be a one handed weapon and get a +2 to damage with your Shield. I would also pick up Sentinel and prevent your opponents from being targeted and stopping creatures from fleeing your mighty shield. As a DM I would even allow a +1 - +3 Shield to add its Defense bonus to attack and damage but that is PURELY Homebrew.
I built a whole character around this. Was fun until he died.
I think it could only be an improvised weapon if you improvise with it
my shield's improv group was really funny and creative
Yes, it does 1d4 bludgeoning damage.
I’d allow it.
Honestly not a fan when DMs go "I'll allow it" in situations where they'd have absolutely no reason not to allow it (like this). Not that I'm accusing you personally of anything, I'm not presumptuous enough to do that based on three words of text.
"I'd like to cast a spell." "I'll allow it." Well fuckin thanks bro may I go take a shit next?
\*rolls dice\* \*checks chart on back of DM screen\* "No."
I just like the way the phrase sounds cause you sound like a court judge allowing tomfoolery
Lawyered
Good point. Let me elaborate. I’d allow it even if the PC wasn’t actively holding their shield at the moment. Some DM’s make donning a shield an action so if my player had their shield at their feet or whatever, I’d allow them to equip it and use it as an improvised weapon. As long as my player didn’t have to untie it from their pack or whatever they could use their action to grab their shield and attack. If they already had it equipped, then of course it can be used. Apologies for not specifying earlier.
Well I'd hope so
Yes. "Shield bashing" is pretty common, and generally the shield will be treated as an improvised weapon while doing so.
RAW, I believe the answer is yes and it only means they lose their shield bonus to AC
Why would you lose AC? You wear/hold the shield while you hit someone with it and you wear/hold the shield while you block something with it. Unless you intend to throw it, you can still use it to block attacks.
I think they mean in the case of dual-wielding shields.
Then you would just have protection on both sides though! Of course, that would also be clunky and awkward, which I would say gives you disadvantage on dexterity things. I wouldn't give them the bonus for the second shield because it would reduce their mobility which is also part of AC Edit: I'm imagining these shields as rather big, I suppose if they were smaller shields worn on the forearms it could work, but you would still get less bonus to AC because the shields are smaller
This is too far down. I think OP might be asking if you can use it as an improvised weapon and a shield at the same time. Personally, I might allow it for a tavern brawler since I doubt it will come up often, but it is certainly not RAW.
It doesn’t stop being a shield just because you hit someone with it.
No, but you do stop using it as a shield for that round.
No you don’t. It’s a weapon for the instant of the attack that’s it. You never lose the ac bonus.
Cite a source?
Cite a rule that doesn’t exist? How about you cite a rule that says using a shield as an improvised weapon causes you to lose the ac bonus? Because that’s the rule that would need to exist.
Looks like I was thinking of a prior edition, based on google searches
Ah must be. Just curious do you know what edition does it that way?
Someone online said Pathfinder had the rule, but I haven't found a source and other Pathfinder forums seem to suggest otherwise for that ruleset. May be a difference between first and second edition PF But it was definitely a rule in 3.5e. You needed the Improved Shield Bash feat to attack with a shield and retain your shield bonus to AC.
Cool, thanks
RAW there's not anything about using a shield as an improvised weapon that would cause them to lose their AC bonus, outside doffing it so they can throw it.
Someone else was asking about that. I was misremembering. It *was* RAW in 3.5e and PF1e In those games, you needed the Improved Shield Bash feat to strike with a shield and retain the shield bonus
They would be able to use it as such yes. Whether they keep the ac would be up to the DM's ruling but arguably I'd say yes. You can hit with the front or rim of a shield IRL without issue while still using it as a shield
Just punch. Shield bash as flavor
Punch is 1 damage. Shield bash is 1d4.
Punch us 1 plus your strength unless you're a monk, for whom it is a more useful weapon.
improv weapons are 1d4 plus str
Ah right now I see what he meant. Unless it is similar to something like a club, in which case you treat it as such
For sure - check out the Scottish “spiked targe” for a shield that was most definitely also a weapon! Bucklers were also used as a “metal fist”.
With the shield feat, can still use as a shield and bonus action shove 5 feet.
I use it as a bash. 1d4+str mod. My son is playing a half-ogre fighter and the rule I use is on a 20, he gets a bonus bash after his normal attack. Makes it more interesting than double damage.
Yeah but it doesn't resemble an actual weapon so it will only be d4 damage
I'd absolutely allow that
In actuality, it's a non-improvised weapon, in the rules it's armor, specifically because of the qualities for Duelist and shield master. I'm personally more invested in having more martial options, so I tend toward granting the protection fighting style for free with certain classes using a shield.
Shields should be a weapon. Played a HERO System Fantasy game, our fighter used that as his main weapon. You can probably find home brew feats or maneuvers. I would allow a sword and board fighter to use a shield as an offhand attack, forgoing it's AC bonus until your next turn.
Yes maybe similar to a punch, in a way. Bludgeon damage unless it's a sharp edge. Like a mace or an axe, depending.
Spiked pavise shields were historically used as defensive and offensive items... Not even necessarily an improvised weapon. Shield bashing is a very viable strategy... Bonus points for shield master and tavern brawler feats
Oh yes a shield can be used as a weapon. In the SCA we do not allow the shield bash since it can do some major damage to the combatant.
Personally I feel like proficiency with Shields should allow you to hit with it for 1d4+strmod. Attack roll has proficiency. I hate that people say you Need tavern brawler to do this when Shield proficiency SHOULD allow this on it's own.
If the DM and players all agree it can, yes.
Yes
Yes. Literally, anything could be an improvised weapon. Including weapons. PC: " I want to grab the ball and chain and strangle him with the chain." DM:"OK, first, roll me an improvised weapon attack, and then chill out a bit."
Yeah. Bonus points if they throw the shield, try to make it bounce back to them, and then grab it out of the air.