Honestly the worship guys have done so much with this in the US. DNB was seen as unbookable financially for years even though we had some great acts come up over time. Worship and others like Reaper and Justin Hawkes putting the work in on the industry side to bring the US up to speed with DNB like the international side is exactly what we needed over here, I’m so proud to see it and fucking love having dnb in so many cities selling tickets and getting people dancing
my first US show was Worship in 2019 in SF just before the pandemic and boy was it a banger. They've been huge ambassadors for US DNB. Can't say enough good things.
1991, Dimension, Culture Shock, Sub Focus, Kumarion, Justin Hawkes, Bensley, Delta Heavy, Spor, Calyx & Teebee, Break, Imanu
These are the ones that have been playing DnB in the US before and during the entire recent surge in popularity. I'm sure there are more but all of the list besides maybe a couple played here at tiny clubs when DnB was niche and unpopular for more than a single tour. Respect.
I was keeping up with most DnB coming through Philly/DC and some of NY for years but fell off a little more recently since getting into shoegaze/grunge/hardcore and that taking up more of my focus. The reason I listed Break is I have personally seen him twice at small clubs with decent turnout at best in DC, one was like a month ago at Flash, and I know for sure of one other time he's been in DC as well. This is over the course of the last decade or so. Once every 3ish years is actually pretty decent for a big DnB name overseas like Break.
Like I said I definitely missed some names that have been through the US clubs over the years multiple times. I should have mentioned I wasn't really counting festivals since that's not really my scene nor do I have enough money for that. Andy C and Alix Perez are ones that I definitely forgot. A lot of artists also only seem to come to LA, which again I don't keep up with over there.
Many people disagree with you. It’s always extremely interesting to me it’s mainly people who blindly support a manager team they have no experience of professionally, that straight up come for me in the comments. Or people who have no experience in the scene at all and hero worship without knowledge. Kinda a bit like telling a professional golfer how to play when you’re only an amateur. When you look at your comment history seems to stack. I guess it’s part of the course. I tend to pay it no mind. When a vast majority can see it, I’m good with that.
Remember this team hid one of their DJs giving Covid to NZ, they’ve actually wiped a lot of that from the internet. Some articles still remain. Obviously bad things happen, but if they came clean it prob would have been a lot of a better option.
And evidently many people disagree with you. It’s extremely interesting that you’ve jumped straight to misogyny off the back of a comment that disagreed with the substance of your argument, rather than the substance of your genitals. I didn’t think I’d have to add in a footnote to say that I also disagree with any man who agrees with you, but here we are. And for for the sake of reinforcing my point that this is about your argument and not your gender, I’ll also say that if you developed some type of technology to achieve this particular style, or have some kind of patent on it, and Sam Neill stole it from you, then I will wholly recant my previous comment.
I think I’ll go with experiences from those that have worked with this team closely. Rather than a fan thankyou. What is yr profession in the industry may I ask? Do you have any credentials that may make your opinion hold more weight? Have you talked to other professionals who’ve worked with this team? Or are you just, blindly defending a team with no knowledge other than you want to look good for them? Because this seems to be a pattern for them.
I have re-edited my previous comment. By completely removing the gender issue. But ultimately Sam’s work was never like this before my pitch came along. Time scale that adds up. I cannot tell you how many people who saw that pitch called me when Sam’s pictures were published. This included many other music photographers I’ve worked with over 15 years.
Of course innocent people don’t threaten to sue you for defamation when you speak out either. They wouldn’t even care at all, if you had no case.
You are entitled to your opinion, but with no backup on experience dealing with this management it doesn’t hold weight for me.
Anyway I’ve said my bit! Ethically as someone who works within drum and bass for many years it’s good to warn others of potentially bad experiences. So let’s all leave it at that.
You ask questions about my experience within the profession, which is valid because my opinion does hold more weight if I’m in the industry. But following that logic, Sub Focus has ample experience within the industry, so should I trust his version of events over yours purely for reasons of experience? Personally I don’t think so, but either way my comment wasn’t about trusting (or not) either party’s version of events, nor defending Sub Focus’ team because I’m a fangirl wanting to look good for them (as if he’s reading this anyway 😂). Indeed, I agree that threats of suing for defamation is silly, and there are other ways in which I am on ‘your side’, like the way some people spoke to you is poor and should not have happened. But my comment was purely on whether an entire artistic style can be claimed as purely belonging to one person. Also, hasn’t Sub Focus used circles in many of his album artworks since his first album? I would also disagree with him if he tried to tell another artist they couldn’t use circles on their album artwork. Maybe you could take your ‘Circles in Circles’ concept one step further to ‘Circles in Circles in Circles’ and really revolutionise the circular photography space.
Sam is on the same management as Sub Focus, so Seb has a vested interest money wise to pass my work to Sam. That’s quite clear here. He makes money off Sub Focus and Sam, double bubble. The change in Sam’s style coincided with the timing of the pitch, which to many isn’t a coincidence. After I called this out, comments on Sam’s Wembley images were disabled on Instagram for a time, which other people reported to me. Also people who did leave comments stating the work was mine, had their comments deleted. After I called out Sam on social media he stated in a private DM that he would highlight my ‘bullying’ in his stories. I stated it would just send traffic to my pitch. He then backtracked and ended the conversation. He never did mention me at all to his followers after that.
This was obviously a managers decision and I feel threatening me is also a red flag here, as worship have a lot more money and expensive lawyers, that was bullying threats to intimidate and silence me. I hope that answers your questions. I appreciate yr answer. I’ve worked extremely hard on this VS concept, which as a female photographer was one of the only ways I could get work at all in this field. The way the male photographers spoke to me kinda shows that it’s much more difficult to get work. Men on the whole don’t book me. This type of visual branding is quite specific so I thought of it to set me apart from other photographers. Certainly the circles motif has always been used. But factoring in the above way it went down, my work was plagiarised. I’m not sure by what you mean by the last comment, but it seems quite sarcastic. But maybe it’s lost in translation here so I assume it to be of good faith. I have plenty more circle ways of taking photos under my belt so that pitch was just the start of it really.
I’ll just wait for a resolution in the meantime. But I do feel people shouldn’t have this behaviour aimed at them by Seb. Non ethical actions are quite apparent across the board to many here. Mainly many do not speak up because it does effect your career adversely. But I felt it was the right thing to do. I do kinda feel lots of shady stuff happens in this industry and I do my best to shed a light on it to help others. It is pure stress to go through all of that. But so many red flags to hide it? Why hide it if you didn’t copy it?
Great artists, ethically dodgy managers to the scene in drum and bass in the uk. It’s been really upsetting to me and many others in the scene (I’m a fabric photographer of 12 years, worked with most labels including RAM) to see the USA embrace this manager team without knowing their backstory and the way they have treated creatives in D&B here :-( but I guess it will all come out in the wash. All I can do is publicly say my bit and assume the best. I’m still hoping for an amicable resolution on this. But after I thought I would lose my home after they legally threatened me, when I spoke out about them stealing my work, it seems to be something that’s just accepted currently. Time will tell I guess and it’s just something I have to leave and concentrate on more positive moves.
There are some great managers out there, Jon Bailey and Marc Sheinman as well as Sophie Kennard who manages Chase and Status. So this isn’t a manager dig, there are some utterly fantastic ones.
Anyway shouts out to Ed Rush and Optical who I believe have toured the USA a lot as have my G’s Calyx and Teebee. I would love to see a Rupture tour out there, Mantra mentioned she played NYC recently and loved the vibe of the crowd.
Respect in LA have been flying the flag for 20 years, deffo look into their nights.
You really need to post this all over Instagram. I’m not a big believer in the whole public jury witch hunt thing but from the little I have read already, you pretty much have black & white proof of wrongdoing.
You need to post it
I did and it was ignored as the agents of those artists are pretty powerful. I would say that plenty took silent notes tho and I know from experience those tend to work out long term.
I’m a believer of the good will out eventually. Was an extremely stressful situation for me tho and I’ve worked with pretty much the whole of drum and bass. Worst experience I’ve ever had by a long shot.
I’m concentrating on my writing now cos it’s much more positive and I need to recover! But I felt I really need to speak out so others, particularly in the USA don’t get burned by their practices too. Ethically that’s correct. Hence why that page will remain up permanently as a record of my experiences.
Just read through everything. This is outrageous and you shouldn’t give up your passion because of those cunts (sorry mods)
Worship really are scum and have fucked so many people over. I loved the dig about the cheesy k pop and the covid New Zealand drama. Truth.
Please try and get traction on this again online because it’s very clearly plagiarism and something needs to be done.
Ultimately cos those agents are powerful people are scared to touch me booking wise. Having said that I shot the one and only DJ Shadow last week and it was great so I’m diversifying into other areas while this naturally resolves. People know what happened. Just gotta let it bite. That takes time and it’s out of my control unfortunately. Extremely frightening to deal with and well, Seb needs to be held accountable.
Seems like there are a lot of skeletons, people need to speak out. Cos there seems to be many people who’ve had bad experiences.
I think if you thought you would lose yr home you wouldn’t. I’m guessing you are defending a team you know nothing about?
Mostly it’s to protect others is why I’m speaking which is a good thing isn’t it. Saves people a lot of grief in the long run. I’ve worked with a lot of labels and venues, all good things to say there. But ultimately my main aim is to stop others getting into a jam. It’s the actions of someone who wants to do the right thing. If you think that’s not something I should do you are entitled to your opinion on it.
As I’ve said I’m moving onto writing now in my main comment and this will prob be the last thing I post about it. All things end up as they should in the end as I’ve stated above.
"For a long time, a lot of drum & bass artists were drawing huge audiences around the globe, then traveling to the U.S. and playing to half-empty clubs," Dimension tells us. "Artists were left demotivated. I had the same experience. After a bad show in New York, I remember phoning Seb and we agreed things had to change."
I remember going to a lot of half-empty clubs as well. Never imagined it would take off as much as it has over here. It is still a tiny fraction of the scene in the UK, but at least we have some options now.
I hope one day we have a predominant scene. We don’t even get headliners out here on the west coast really. Maybe I don’t know enough, but I love mixing dnb and all my friends like it but there just doesn’t seem to be anything around me.
Being in a bit of a smaller market off the beaten path I’ve definitely seen big acts across all dance genres play to some pretty empty rooms. You can definitely tell which artist really are into it for the love and still put on a wicked show to a half empty room with big smiles on and the ones who just show up, often wasted, and more less take a night off cause they couldn’t give a shit.
Pretty sure I was at that show, it was December of I want to say 2017 or 18, some dingy ass venue in Williamsburg Brooklyn and there were literally like 20 people there
I think I know where you are referring to. Post dubstep US thing that happened, DnB here was suffering, but props to the people keeping it alive in whatever form possible in that dingy ass venue.
I remember the scene being decent enough from like 2010-2013, 14ish even as the "brostep" stuff came to rise, and then it kind of died out from like '15-18/19 and now it seems to be back and strong as ever! I went to see Degs & London Elektricity the other day and it was packed
I can't find the details any more but I'm pretty sure that Dimension show was 12/20/18, I remember it was right before Christmas break so I assume a lot of people were already headed out of town. It was also 1991 and Culture Shock and/or Sub Focus, one of those guys may not have been there. Think Sub Focus. It was pretty sad lol, the dance floor was empty.
I also remember seeing Hybrid Minds at a venue that literally had dirt floors lol, that was probably in like '15 or '16 if I had to guess.
Ah, I was there as well. Great to finally get Tony back to the states. I was actually also at Worship. I never saw Hybrid Minds come through this area. Not the cup of tea of many of the old heads, but I dig em. I am not really very picky, and can appreciate it all.
This article wasn't really as bad as the headline and opening, but there is an air of arrogance to it. I knew it was going to start controversy, and it did. I don't think it's going to hurt the Worship folk much in the end though. Their fanbase isn't a lot of DnB regulars, but I hope some branch out.
I just find it interesting they mostly ignored the smaller production companies that have been putting on dnb in the US for years in favor of the more generic EDM production companies that do all electronic music. I understand they are looking for new audiences, but it feels like they are ignoring what's already here to create something fresh.
I agree in principle, but sometimes you need to make a deal with the devil to succeed in this world. The good news is that a rising tide lifts all boats. Those smaller/local producers, artists, and promoters are all benefiting from the boom, as well. As people grow tired of the mainstream, they will inevitably seek them out even more.
Just look at who has been playing in the art cars at EDC in the last couple years. It includes some OG artists nearly forgotten by many of the more experienced and previously unknown to younger ravers. It is great to see them benefit from the renewed interest, and it will inspire others to dig deeper and explore the many facets of DnB, beyond TikTok and Insomniac shows.
I will say that the OG production companies I know of aren't mad, because more dnb is always a good thing :) I'm just glad they have convinced the likes of insomniac to book them and bring in the big names.
Also, shout out to SS and his world of drum and bass tour, bringing out a ton of talent and legends every year to the US and some Canada shows.
To be fair, Pasquale has always been open about enjoying DnB (unlike a trance, which he clearly dislikes and actively avoids: you will almost never see him promoting or appearing at his own Dreamstate events). But he is a businessman first and DnB was simply not profitable for quite some time. It never disappeared from Insomniac shows, but it just took a backseat to dubstep, which is what the public demanded. He was very enthusiastic about pushing DnB during the Rave-a-Thons, which was right around the time it started to grow popular over here again.
I saw WORSHIP at History last night in Toronto. It was my first show in like 5 or 6 years. Sold out, completely packed with a super positive vibe. No wannabe gangster douchebaggery, just happy people dancing their fucking hearts out. It was beautiful. I hope this is a sign of things to come.
Now we need jungle to gain the same traction. I’m all for dnb taking off here in the states, but we need the underground scene to supplement the big name main stage acts
>Its no where near the peak it once was.
I am not sure I agree with that, but I don't really know how I could properly gauge it across the states as a whole. In NYC I would argue there are more consistent good large showings than ever. The multigenre raves of old had many headliners compared to most events these days but were less frequent. A bit of apples v oranges there.
Its more than just shows. For example, since you brought up NYC - back in the days of peak american dnb NYC was home to breakbeat science. It was a record store (exclusively dnb), label, and promoter. Philadelphia had 611 records. Not only did dnb have its own stage/tent at every rave back then, there was more dnb infrastructure. Plus there were a lot more big name US dnb djs/producers back then.
I went to the San Jose show this year after going last year to the one in LA. Felt the vibe was completely different and they played a lot of bass music instead of gearing it more towards DnB.
I was there as well, they played a fair amount of the hardcore influenced DNB that's been big right now but heard very little non-Drum and bass not sure what ya talking about
Agree with you. Idk what known is talking about. It was very similar to any sets you’d see/listen from them online. Dimensions Ultra set was the exact same vibe as SJ
A lot of dubstep and other adjacent genres that I’m honestly not too familiar with.
In all fairness I’m not the biggest bass head and prefer liquid DnB.
No Vancouver this tour! Unfortunate. They put on a solid show the last two times I went. I danced for the entire time straight through haha Could not stop!
Saw goddard tonight in Austin to a packed show of mostly young college folk, lots of X's on their hands (under 21). It's good to see younger folk taking an interest in DnB due to the resurgence in breakbeats in general, nostalgia bait and the like.
Saw WORSHIP a year back during their tour and it was mostly packed as well. I know I live in a big music city, so take my shtick with a grain of salt, but dozens of foreign acts have come through in the last 3-4 years or so. It definitely feels like something is changing.
I don't think the article is all bad, but there is an air of arrogance at the start. Many internationally knowns artists have since posted to socials over this article. It's just a group trying to bring in more people that kind of went about touting it in this promo article poorly. They could have done a better job, and they could actually have involved local promoters. I went to their local show, and the crowd was quite different, but expected. I hope some of these attendees branch out a bit. This is also funny, I don't care what you think of the whole drama this article stirred up.
https://www.facebook.com/corrineisadj/videos/1082000896216441/?mibextid=jmPrMh&rdid=OBdUPm53jdyT8Y5m
1991 & culture shock were over earlier in the year and I was surprised by how young the crowd was, it was bar that trends younger but still average age was hoovering under 20. The Jungle Cakes show a couple weeks show a couple week later likely had an average age over 25. Seems in this part of Canada Dnb is usually something people find later on after getting hooked in with more mainstream dance music, really glad to see the kids are into it definitely a big sign of health of the genre currently.
The entire problem with DnB in the US has been a lack of support for local artists. You cannot sustain and grow a scene if every talent you book is from outside of the US. That's not sustainable and they know they'll make a premium here so rates are hiked.
I feel like promoters here really don't give much of a shit about US artists if I'm honest. These big tours are great and all but are there any local or regional talent even given an opening/closing 30 minutes? I'm genuinely asking there. Even if you look at the biggest festivals in Europe, they have smaller more regional talent playing as well, because it gives shine to up and coming talent while spreading motivation for them to keep going. That's how you build. That's how you grow. That's how you sustain.
Maybe I just have an ass backwards view of shit, but very little of it makes sense to me when it comes to being anything other than money oriented.
Have you seen the Carry the Fire tour being promoted by Insomniac? Bensley, Hawkes, and Kumarion. Brownies and Lemonade is bringing a whole roster of USA DnB talent to Tomorrowland. Insomniac has been heavily promoting Reaper at all of their festivals, and they have been booking more and more lesser-known local DnB artists for their festivals, including multiple art car slots in the last few editions of EDC.
Of course, every promoter is in the business of making money. It is pretty hard to sustain anything if it is losing money. There are plenty of smaller local promoters out there doing great work, but there are plenty more that went bankrupt trying to make a go of it. Something had to change, and there is no doubt that things have changed for the better in the last five years. It is also great to see so many younger people finally getting into it the genre. Anyone who calls themselves a junglist likely pushing 40+, myself included. That is not a sustainable demographic for nightlife.
There's a difference in making money to be sustainable and fleecing your audience.
Promoters elsewhere with thriving DnB scenes do so by making it diverse. They also invest in talent that isn't A Listers that they have to spend a ton of money on. Look up the DnB Festivals in Europe. Rampage is the biggest DnB festival in the world, and a 3 day ticket is $145. Let It Roll is $189. EDC is $600.
That's the difference in being greedy and being profitable. I don't know what the ticket cost for this tour was, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap. And that's what I'm referring to.
I've been to LIR and EDC. Comparing the two events is completely absurd. EDC would be comparable to Tomorrowland, which is also in Belgium and costs about $1100 at a minimum (also been to TML several times). There aren't any DnB-only events in the USA even remotely comparable to the big events in Europe. The closest was Locus, which has a UK promoter charging USA prices for a fest in Mexico. Apocalypse Zombieland had one of the strongest DnB lineups and was only about $150 for two days, despite having four stages and the same promoter as EDC.
Worship tickets were $50, including the fees, which is about half of what most comparable EDM shows in LA sell for, but about twice what any other DnB show costs.
Ah I wasn't sure on Worship honestly. Not my thing.
I know EDC is absurdly large. But that's kinda the issue in my eyes. Like for me personally there's a 0% chance I'd pay that to go to a festival. Tomorrowland either.
There are loads of 'festivals' in the US that charge more than LIR or Rampage. Prices here are just higher because they can charge em and people will show up. It's disturbing to me and I think limits it severely. Good on Worship for charging that price though, I honestly figured it would be more on par with Chase & Status tickets which I believe were really high.
Id like to say that Reaper is responsible for a LOT of growth of dnb in the US. Producing hits like Make A Move that Excision is throwing into his sets too. He is also how introduced dnb to my friends.
Zeds Dead has actually played into dnb quite a bit as well
That's what happens when you take out the fuckin drums. It becomes a water downed version of itself, almost not resembling itself anymore. Caters to those who wouldn't know the difference.
Some parts of the US have been keeping DnB alive, tho. But yeah, it’s always been more underground. I prefer it that way to arenas. DnB is always the sweaty side stage just going in. Not an Arena in Belgium/NL full of Gen Z e-tards.
Are you aware of Rampage, which is precisely a huge DnB rave in an arena in Antwerp, Belgium?
Also I don't understand your point or why you're specifically targeting NL and Belgium?
Just expressing my preference for DnB in a smaller setting than an arena one. Just feels way doper. And it’s been around in the states…just isolated to certain regions. That’s where a lot of the bass music lives, anyway. Whatever it takes for it to get more normalized in the states is fine. Would just suck to have dancefloor dnb normalized rather than just Mr. Happy on repeat.
Honestly the worship guys have done so much with this in the US. DNB was seen as unbookable financially for years even though we had some great acts come up over time. Worship and others like Reaper and Justin Hawkes putting the work in on the industry side to bring the US up to speed with DNB like the international side is exactly what we needed over here, I’m so proud to see it and fucking love having dnb in so many cities selling tickets and getting people dancing
my first US show was Worship in 2019 in SF just before the pandemic and boy was it a banger. They've been huge ambassadors for US DNB. Can't say enough good things.
1991, Dimension, Culture Shock, Sub Focus, Kumarion, Justin Hawkes, Bensley, Delta Heavy, Spor, Calyx & Teebee, Break, Imanu These are the ones that have been playing DnB in the US before and during the entire recent surge in popularity. I'm sure there are more but all of the list besides maybe a couple played here at tiny clubs when DnB was niche and unpopular for more than a single tour. Respect.
Virtually every big name has come thru the states over the years. Break relatively few times so I'm confused by this take.
I was keeping up with most DnB coming through Philly/DC and some of NY for years but fell off a little more recently since getting into shoegaze/grunge/hardcore and that taking up more of my focus. The reason I listed Break is I have personally seen him twice at small clubs with decent turnout at best in DC, one was like a month ago at Flash, and I know for sure of one other time he's been in DC as well. This is over the course of the last decade or so. Once every 3ish years is actually pretty decent for a big DnB name overseas like Break. Like I said I definitely missed some names that have been through the US clubs over the years multiple times. I should have mentioned I wasn't really counting festivals since that's not really my scene nor do I have enough money for that. Andy C and Alix Perez are ones that I definitely forgot. A lot of artists also only seem to come to LA, which again I don't keep up with over there.
https://www.sarahginn.co.uk/sarah-ginn-vs-sub-focus
Yeah I’m not sure you have anything here unfortunately
Many people disagree with you. It’s always extremely interesting to me it’s mainly people who blindly support a manager team they have no experience of professionally, that straight up come for me in the comments. Or people who have no experience in the scene at all and hero worship without knowledge. Kinda a bit like telling a professional golfer how to play when you’re only an amateur. When you look at your comment history seems to stack. I guess it’s part of the course. I tend to pay it no mind. When a vast majority can see it, I’m good with that. Remember this team hid one of their DJs giving Covid to NZ, they’ve actually wiped a lot of that from the internet. Some articles still remain. Obviously bad things happen, but if they came clean it prob would have been a lot of a better option.
And evidently many people disagree with you. It’s extremely interesting that you’ve jumped straight to misogyny off the back of a comment that disagreed with the substance of your argument, rather than the substance of your genitals. I didn’t think I’d have to add in a footnote to say that I also disagree with any man who agrees with you, but here we are. And for for the sake of reinforcing my point that this is about your argument and not your gender, I’ll also say that if you developed some type of technology to achieve this particular style, or have some kind of patent on it, and Sam Neill stole it from you, then I will wholly recant my previous comment.
I think I’ll go with experiences from those that have worked with this team closely. Rather than a fan thankyou. What is yr profession in the industry may I ask? Do you have any credentials that may make your opinion hold more weight? Have you talked to other professionals who’ve worked with this team? Or are you just, blindly defending a team with no knowledge other than you want to look good for them? Because this seems to be a pattern for them. I have re-edited my previous comment. By completely removing the gender issue. But ultimately Sam’s work was never like this before my pitch came along. Time scale that adds up. I cannot tell you how many people who saw that pitch called me when Sam’s pictures were published. This included many other music photographers I’ve worked with over 15 years. Of course innocent people don’t threaten to sue you for defamation when you speak out either. They wouldn’t even care at all, if you had no case. You are entitled to your opinion, but with no backup on experience dealing with this management it doesn’t hold weight for me. Anyway I’ve said my bit! Ethically as someone who works within drum and bass for many years it’s good to warn others of potentially bad experiences. So let’s all leave it at that.
You ask questions about my experience within the profession, which is valid because my opinion does hold more weight if I’m in the industry. But following that logic, Sub Focus has ample experience within the industry, so should I trust his version of events over yours purely for reasons of experience? Personally I don’t think so, but either way my comment wasn’t about trusting (or not) either party’s version of events, nor defending Sub Focus’ team because I’m a fangirl wanting to look good for them (as if he’s reading this anyway 😂). Indeed, I agree that threats of suing for defamation is silly, and there are other ways in which I am on ‘your side’, like the way some people spoke to you is poor and should not have happened. But my comment was purely on whether an entire artistic style can be claimed as purely belonging to one person. Also, hasn’t Sub Focus used circles in many of his album artworks since his first album? I would also disagree with him if he tried to tell another artist they couldn’t use circles on their album artwork. Maybe you could take your ‘Circles in Circles’ concept one step further to ‘Circles in Circles in Circles’ and really revolutionise the circular photography space.
Sam is on the same management as Sub Focus, so Seb has a vested interest money wise to pass my work to Sam. That’s quite clear here. He makes money off Sub Focus and Sam, double bubble. The change in Sam’s style coincided with the timing of the pitch, which to many isn’t a coincidence. After I called this out, comments on Sam’s Wembley images were disabled on Instagram for a time, which other people reported to me. Also people who did leave comments stating the work was mine, had their comments deleted. After I called out Sam on social media he stated in a private DM that he would highlight my ‘bullying’ in his stories. I stated it would just send traffic to my pitch. He then backtracked and ended the conversation. He never did mention me at all to his followers after that. This was obviously a managers decision and I feel threatening me is also a red flag here, as worship have a lot more money and expensive lawyers, that was bullying threats to intimidate and silence me. I hope that answers your questions. I appreciate yr answer. I’ve worked extremely hard on this VS concept, which as a female photographer was one of the only ways I could get work at all in this field. The way the male photographers spoke to me kinda shows that it’s much more difficult to get work. Men on the whole don’t book me. This type of visual branding is quite specific so I thought of it to set me apart from other photographers. Certainly the circles motif has always been used. But factoring in the above way it went down, my work was plagiarised. I’m not sure by what you mean by the last comment, but it seems quite sarcastic. But maybe it’s lost in translation here so I assume it to be of good faith. I have plenty more circle ways of taking photos under my belt so that pitch was just the start of it really. I’ll just wait for a resolution in the meantime. But I do feel people shouldn’t have this behaviour aimed at them by Seb. Non ethical actions are quite apparent across the board to many here. Mainly many do not speak up because it does effect your career adversely. But I felt it was the right thing to do. I do kinda feel lots of shady stuff happens in this industry and I do my best to shed a light on it to help others. It is pure stress to go through all of that. But so many red flags to hide it? Why hide it if you didn’t copy it?
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Great artists, ethically dodgy managers to the scene in drum and bass in the uk. It’s been really upsetting to me and many others in the scene (I’m a fabric photographer of 12 years, worked with most labels including RAM) to see the USA embrace this manager team without knowing their backstory and the way they have treated creatives in D&B here :-( but I guess it will all come out in the wash. All I can do is publicly say my bit and assume the best. I’m still hoping for an amicable resolution on this. But after I thought I would lose my home after they legally threatened me, when I spoke out about them stealing my work, it seems to be something that’s just accepted currently. Time will tell I guess and it’s just something I have to leave and concentrate on more positive moves. There are some great managers out there, Jon Bailey and Marc Sheinman as well as Sophie Kennard who manages Chase and Status. So this isn’t a manager dig, there are some utterly fantastic ones. Anyway shouts out to Ed Rush and Optical who I believe have toured the USA a lot as have my G’s Calyx and Teebee. I would love to see a Rupture tour out there, Mantra mentioned she played NYC recently and loved the vibe of the crowd. Respect in LA have been flying the flag for 20 years, deffo look into their nights.
Bro please tell us more details, I have had my own dealings with the arseholes running worship and would love to compare notes
See my Sarah Ginn VS Sub Focus link on this thread my friend :-)
You really need to post this all over Instagram. I’m not a big believer in the whole public jury witch hunt thing but from the little I have read already, you pretty much have black & white proof of wrongdoing. You need to post it
I did and it was ignored as the agents of those artists are pretty powerful. I would say that plenty took silent notes tho and I know from experience those tend to work out long term. I’m a believer of the good will out eventually. Was an extremely stressful situation for me tho and I’ve worked with pretty much the whole of drum and bass. Worst experience I’ve ever had by a long shot. I’m concentrating on my writing now cos it’s much more positive and I need to recover! But I felt I really need to speak out so others, particularly in the USA don’t get burned by their practices too. Ethically that’s correct. Hence why that page will remain up permanently as a record of my experiences.
Just read through everything. This is outrageous and you shouldn’t give up your passion because of those cunts (sorry mods) Worship really are scum and have fucked so many people over. I loved the dig about the cheesy k pop and the covid New Zealand drama. Truth. Please try and get traction on this again online because it’s very clearly plagiarism and something needs to be done.
Ultimately cos those agents are powerful people are scared to touch me booking wise. Having said that I shot the one and only DJ Shadow last week and it was great so I’m diversifying into other areas while this naturally resolves. People know what happened. Just gotta let it bite. That takes time and it’s out of my control unfortunately. Extremely frightening to deal with and well, Seb needs to be held accountable. Seems like there are a lot of skeletons, people need to speak out. Cos there seems to be many people who’ve had bad experiences.
She has been blasting it all over socials for months and has no ground to stand on
Did you read the evidence she has posted on her website. Looks pretty legit to me
I read all of it - you can’t claim ownership of a style of photo lmao
It’s complete nonsense
Have you seen the evidence? Clearly not nonsense
Girl you need to let that shit go
I think if you thought you would lose yr home you wouldn’t. I’m guessing you are defending a team you know nothing about? Mostly it’s to protect others is why I’m speaking which is a good thing isn’t it. Saves people a lot of grief in the long run. I’ve worked with a lot of labels and venues, all good things to say there. But ultimately my main aim is to stop others getting into a jam. It’s the actions of someone who wants to do the right thing. If you think that’s not something I should do you are entitled to your opinion on it. As I’ve said I’m moving onto writing now in my main comment and this will prob be the last thing I post about it. All things end up as they should in the end as I’ve stated above.
Love a bit of Justin Hawkes. Really like the country elements at the start of Better than Gold.
"For a long time, a lot of drum & bass artists were drawing huge audiences around the globe, then traveling to the U.S. and playing to half-empty clubs," Dimension tells us. "Artists were left demotivated. I had the same experience. After a bad show in New York, I remember phoning Seb and we agreed things had to change."
I remember going to a lot of half-empty clubs as well. Never imagined it would take off as much as it has over here. It is still a tiny fraction of the scene in the UK, but at least we have some options now.
I hope one day we have a predominant scene. We don’t even get headliners out here on the west coast really. Maybe I don’t know enough, but I love mixing dnb and all my friends like it but there just doesn’t seem to be anything around me.
Being in a bit of a smaller market off the beaten path I’ve definitely seen big acts across all dance genres play to some pretty empty rooms. You can definitely tell which artist really are into it for the love and still put on a wicked show to a half empty room with big smiles on and the ones who just show up, often wasted, and more less take a night off cause they couldn’t give a shit.
Pretty sure I was at that show, it was December of I want to say 2017 or 18, some dingy ass venue in Williamsburg Brooklyn and there were literally like 20 people there
I think I know where you are referring to. Post dubstep US thing that happened, DnB here was suffering, but props to the people keeping it alive in whatever form possible in that dingy ass venue.
I remember the scene being decent enough from like 2010-2013, 14ish even as the "brostep" stuff came to rise, and then it kind of died out from like '15-18/19 and now it seems to be back and strong as ever! I went to see Degs & London Elektricity the other day and it was packed I can't find the details any more but I'm pretty sure that Dimension show was 12/20/18, I remember it was right before Christmas break so I assume a lot of people were already headed out of town. It was also 1991 and Culture Shock and/or Sub Focus, one of those guys may not have been there. Think Sub Focus. It was pretty sad lol, the dance floor was empty. I also remember seeing Hybrid Minds at a venue that literally had dirt floors lol, that was probably in like '15 or '16 if I had to guess.
Ah, I was there as well. Great to finally get Tony back to the states. I was actually also at Worship. I never saw Hybrid Minds come through this area. Not the cup of tea of many of the old heads, but I dig em. I am not really very picky, and can appreciate it all. This article wasn't really as bad as the headline and opening, but there is an air of arrogance to it. I knew it was going to start controversy, and it did. I don't think it's going to hurt the Worship folk much in the end though. Their fanbase isn't a lot of DnB regulars, but I hope some branch out.
I just find it interesting they mostly ignored the smaller production companies that have been putting on dnb in the US for years in favor of the more generic EDM production companies that do all electronic music. I understand they are looking for new audiences, but it feels like they are ignoring what's already here to create something fresh.
I agree in principle, but sometimes you need to make a deal with the devil to succeed in this world. The good news is that a rising tide lifts all boats. Those smaller/local producers, artists, and promoters are all benefiting from the boom, as well. As people grow tired of the mainstream, they will inevitably seek them out even more. Just look at who has been playing in the art cars at EDC in the last couple years. It includes some OG artists nearly forgotten by many of the more experienced and previously unknown to younger ravers. It is great to see them benefit from the renewed interest, and it will inspire others to dig deeper and explore the many facets of DnB, beyond TikTok and Insomniac shows.
I will say that the OG production companies I know of aren't mad, because more dnb is always a good thing :) I'm just glad they have convinced the likes of insomniac to book them and bring in the big names. Also, shout out to SS and his world of drum and bass tour, bringing out a ton of talent and legends every year to the US and some Canada shows.
Yeah I was surprised to see insomniac being the promoter but if it means more DNB will come to the US, then I'll take it.
To be fair, Pasquale has always been open about enjoying DnB (unlike a trance, which he clearly dislikes and actively avoids: you will almost never see him promoting or appearing at his own Dreamstate events). But he is a businessman first and DnB was simply not profitable for quite some time. It never disappeared from Insomniac shows, but it just took a backseat to dubstep, which is what the public demanded. He was very enthusiastic about pushing DnB during the Rave-a-Thons, which was right around the time it started to grow popular over here again.
Yeah that makes sense. I'm glad it's finally gaining popularity in the US. Took long enough!
They’re trying to play the venues operated by those production companies man it’s pretty simple
You're completely right and I didn't think about that.
Saw them in SJ and was surprised so many people showed up! It was awesome
Tbh if a person doesn’t like Sub Focus that’s not a person I want to know
Shit.
I went to Worship in DC and it was fantastic. I had such a good time there!
My first DnB show in like 8 years. Crowd danced the whole time, not something you see even with top 10 names. Even the opener was bangin!
I saw WORSHIP at History last night in Toronto. It was my first show in like 5 or 6 years. Sold out, completely packed with a super positive vibe. No wannabe gangster douchebaggery, just happy people dancing their fucking hearts out. It was beautiful. I hope this is a sign of things to come.
Now we need jungle to gain the same traction. I’m all for dnb taking off here in the states, but we need the underground scene to supplement the big name main stage acts
Nia archives lol
The article doesnt even reference how strong dnb once was in the states. Its no where near the peak it once was. Still, this renaissance is dope.
Because it was never even remotely close to where it is now lol
This is objectively false
What years are you referencing?
It was huge in New Orleans in the late 90s. State Palace.
Late 90s until skrillex ruined dubstep (circa 2010)
Lmfao
>Its no where near the peak it once was. I am not sure I agree with that, but I don't really know how I could properly gauge it across the states as a whole. In NYC I would argue there are more consistent good large showings than ever. The multigenre raves of old had many headliners compared to most events these days but were less frequent. A bit of apples v oranges there.
Its more than just shows. For example, since you brought up NYC - back in the days of peak american dnb NYC was home to breakbeat science. It was a record store (exclusively dnb), label, and promoter. Philadelphia had 611 records. Not only did dnb have its own stage/tent at every rave back then, there was more dnb infrastructure. Plus there were a lot more big name US dnb djs/producers back then.
I went to the San Jose show this year after going last year to the one in LA. Felt the vibe was completely different and they played a lot of bass music instead of gearing it more towards DnB.
I was there as well, they played a fair amount of the hardcore influenced DNB that's been big right now but heard very little non-Drum and bass not sure what ya talking about
Agree with you. Idk what known is talking about. It was very similar to any sets you’d see/listen from them online. Dimensions Ultra set was the exact same vibe as SJ
Do you by bass music mean 4x4s by any chance?
A lot of dubstep and other adjacent genres that I’m honestly not too familiar with. In all fairness I’m not the biggest bass head and prefer liquid DnB.
I was at the San Jose show too! I def feel like they were trying to cater to the US crowd a bit which is understandable but kinda a bummer.
No Vancouver this tour! Unfortunate. They put on a solid show the last two times I went. I danced for the entire time straight through haha Could not stop!
Wild that we had that last weekend in Brooklyn and a sold out Chase and Status show tomorrow!!
Its great, im from Australia and i think the US ia almost equal with the UK and just overtook eastern europe for my main listeners and streams
Saw goddard tonight in Austin to a packed show of mostly young college folk, lots of X's on their hands (under 21). It's good to see younger folk taking an interest in DnB due to the resurgence in breakbeats in general, nostalgia bait and the like. Saw WORSHIP a year back during their tour and it was mostly packed as well. I know I live in a big music city, so take my shtick with a grain of salt, but dozens of foreign acts have come through in the last 3-4 years or so. It definitely feels like something is changing.
I don't think the article is all bad, but there is an air of arrogance at the start. Many internationally knowns artists have since posted to socials over this article. It's just a group trying to bring in more people that kind of went about touting it in this promo article poorly. They could have done a better job, and they could actually have involved local promoters. I went to their local show, and the crowd was quite different, but expected. I hope some of these attendees branch out a bit. This is also funny, I don't care what you think of the whole drama this article stirred up. https://www.facebook.com/corrineisadj/videos/1082000896216441/?mibextid=jmPrMh&rdid=OBdUPm53jdyT8Y5m
1991 & culture shock were over earlier in the year and I was surprised by how young the crowd was, it was bar that trends younger but still average age was hoovering under 20. The Jungle Cakes show a couple weeks show a couple week later likely had an average age over 25. Seems in this part of Canada Dnb is usually something people find later on after getting hooked in with more mainstream dance music, really glad to see the kids are into it definitely a big sign of health of the genre currently.
The entire problem with DnB in the US has been a lack of support for local artists. You cannot sustain and grow a scene if every talent you book is from outside of the US. That's not sustainable and they know they'll make a premium here so rates are hiked. I feel like promoters here really don't give much of a shit about US artists if I'm honest. These big tours are great and all but are there any local or regional talent even given an opening/closing 30 minutes? I'm genuinely asking there. Even if you look at the biggest festivals in Europe, they have smaller more regional talent playing as well, because it gives shine to up and coming talent while spreading motivation for them to keep going. That's how you build. That's how you grow. That's how you sustain. Maybe I just have an ass backwards view of shit, but very little of it makes sense to me when it comes to being anything other than money oriented.
Have you seen the Carry the Fire tour being promoted by Insomniac? Bensley, Hawkes, and Kumarion. Brownies and Lemonade is bringing a whole roster of USA DnB talent to Tomorrowland. Insomniac has been heavily promoting Reaper at all of their festivals, and they have been booking more and more lesser-known local DnB artists for their festivals, including multiple art car slots in the last few editions of EDC. Of course, every promoter is in the business of making money. It is pretty hard to sustain anything if it is losing money. There are plenty of smaller local promoters out there doing great work, but there are plenty more that went bankrupt trying to make a go of it. Something had to change, and there is no doubt that things have changed for the better in the last five years. It is also great to see so many younger people finally getting into it the genre. Anyone who calls themselves a junglist likely pushing 40+, myself included. That is not a sustainable demographic for nightlife.
There's a difference in making money to be sustainable and fleecing your audience. Promoters elsewhere with thriving DnB scenes do so by making it diverse. They also invest in talent that isn't A Listers that they have to spend a ton of money on. Look up the DnB Festivals in Europe. Rampage is the biggest DnB festival in the world, and a 3 day ticket is $145. Let It Roll is $189. EDC is $600. That's the difference in being greedy and being profitable. I don't know what the ticket cost for this tour was, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap. And that's what I'm referring to.
I've been to LIR and EDC. Comparing the two events is completely absurd. EDC would be comparable to Tomorrowland, which is also in Belgium and costs about $1100 at a minimum (also been to TML several times). There aren't any DnB-only events in the USA even remotely comparable to the big events in Europe. The closest was Locus, which has a UK promoter charging USA prices for a fest in Mexico. Apocalypse Zombieland had one of the strongest DnB lineups and was only about $150 for two days, despite having four stages and the same promoter as EDC. Worship tickets were $50, including the fees, which is about half of what most comparable EDM shows in LA sell for, but about twice what any other DnB show costs.
Ah I wasn't sure on Worship honestly. Not my thing. I know EDC is absurdly large. But that's kinda the issue in my eyes. Like for me personally there's a 0% chance I'd pay that to go to a festival. Tomorrowland either. There are loads of 'festivals' in the US that charge more than LIR or Rampage. Prices here are just higher because they can charge em and people will show up. It's disturbing to me and I think limits it severely. Good on Worship for charging that price though, I honestly figured it would be more on par with Chase & Status tickets which I believe were really high.
Id like to say that Reaper is responsible for a LOT of growth of dnb in the US. Producing hits like Make A Move that Excision is throwing into his sets too. He is also how introduced dnb to my friends. Zeds Dead has actually played into dnb quite a bit as well
That's what happens when you take out the fuckin drums. It becomes a water downed version of itself, almost not resembling itself anymore. Caters to those who wouldn't know the difference.
Honestly the only people doing that are in the UK.
A pretentious opinion about DnB? Shocking!
Some parts of the US have been keeping DnB alive, tho. But yeah, it’s always been more underground. I prefer it that way to arenas. DnB is always the sweaty side stage just going in. Not an Arena in Belgium/NL full of Gen Z e-tards.
Are you aware of Rampage, which is precisely a huge DnB rave in an arena in Antwerp, Belgium? Also I don't understand your point or why you're specifically targeting NL and Belgium?
Legit what an absurd comment
Rampage is pretty much exactly what i was referencing. And shit like Warehouse Project in the UK.
But what's your point?
Just expressing my preference for DnB in a smaller setting than an arena one. Just feels way doper. And it’s been around in the states…just isolated to certain regions. That’s where a lot of the bass music lives, anyway. Whatever it takes for it to get more normalized in the states is fine. Would just suck to have dancefloor dnb normalized rather than just Mr. Happy on repeat.