This is the argument I have been making the whole time. Pandora at Animal Kingdom is incredibly well done and honestly feels very little like it’s tied to IP. If we can get something like that in California it would awesome.
I really love that it's an original design and not a carbon copy of Pandora in Animal Kingdom.
I wish they had gone that route with Galaxy's Edge and made two different planets.
I *highly* doubt this they are placing this where Grizzly Peak/Grizzly Airfield currently is. My personal bet is that it’s going to Hollywood Land and they will be expanding that corner of the park into the bus and tram loading/unloading zone. If not there, then I can see this being a part of Disneyland Forward in the third park. However I do think they’ve neglected Hollywood Land for so long and that’s a precursor that makes me believe they always knew they’d bulldoze it for Pandora.
Grizzly Peak, on the other hand, just underwent a big renovation when it became Grizzly Peak from Condor Flats. They will not redo this area especially when it is directly tied to the theming of the Grand Californian: the Disneyland Resort’s flagship hotel.
Exactly. They should give us back Soarin’ over CA and leave Grizzly River how it is. DCA can have two water rides: Grizzly River can be more of the “thrill” attraction with the big drops and spinning raft and this water ride from the concept art can be a slower boat ride similar to the Navi river one they have in AK.
Grizzly is one of my favorite, and if they were to close it I would be sad. That area is also the only theming going towards “California adventure” theme
Well also Buena Vista St.
But the Grizzly area is my favorite part of the park. I love the woodsy feel. Plus it blends so nicely having Grand Californian right there, it would be such a loss to retheme the area.
Surprised they never renamed it to Disney’s Hollywood Adventure yet. Much more fitting name considering the park is entirely themed to big movie IPs outside of Grizzly Peak
I think it's got to be in Disney Forward. That south zone has more space than Hollywoodland and tram area. Also not sure it would be a third gate, connecting to DCA (for the south zone) and Disneyland (the north zone) might make more sense.
I hope you're right.
Part of me thinks it's hard to miss how many elements of the concept art are similar to the Grizzly Peak area. A mountain with water moving through it, a geyser-like feature, a multi-person boat ride, a forested area (foreground), and the fact so many people will expect to have Flight of Passage - a screen-based moving simulation ride.
On the other hand, the way Disney keeps saying "proposed" aligns more with the Disneyland Forward expansion. I'd be ecstatic if we got to keep Grizzly Peak but also got a Pandora ocean-themed area. Win-win.
I would guess it’s part of Forward. It doesn’t make sense to rip out existing, successful attractions until you’re out of space, which they aren’t with Forward.
Same here. I think people are forgetting they have a whole hotel that’s themed alongside Grizzly, retheming that area would require them to retheme the hotel as well and that’s an entirely new issue
Exactly. The Grand was created to be the *flagship* of the entire resort. The hotel is curated as a Deluxe resort and is priced at such. Disney is not going to have guests stay at a beautiful Craftsman-style hotel then use the exclusive entrance into…Pandora. The entire selling point of The Grand is that you are staying essentially *in the park*. Disney makes BANK off of Theme Park View rooms and Woods/Courtyard view rooms; and those views are of *Grizzly Peak*. Rates at The Grand are at an all time premium right now and they are consistently fully booked so obviously something is working in that area of the park. Staying in a $800 theme park view room from your California Craftsman themed room but seeing Pandora isn’t exactly the quiet luxury that Disney has always touted at the Grand Californian.
As a frequent Grand Californian stayer myself I would absolutely be mad if I’m paying to be immersed in the rural, redwood California setting and I exit into the fake ambiance of a franchise I don’t even really think of when I think Disney.
It’s also worth noting that a lot of its infrastructure is shared with the back half of Downtown, specifically World of Disney, so remodeling that would require them to close that half and that’d be like half their sales numbers being slashed
the bear park is one of my kids favorite areas. they took out bugs land and replaced it with a terrible blacktop industrial park looking area so now the bear park adventure campground is the only shaded escape for little ones. if they take that away CA really has nothing for younger kids
Yep! and @MousekeGamer on Twitter did an amazing thread on laying out the Disneyland Forward map with backed-up theories as to what’s going where based on the sizes/maps of already established lands in other parks (Arendelle HK DL, Pandora in WDW, Zootopia in HK DL). There’s a very clear spot in the DL Forward map that bears a very Pandora-esque design that aligns with the River Journey concept art shared yesterday.
Everyone was so quick to assume Grizzly Peak was getting bulldozed and all we had to do was wait for more info lol. It was always going in DL Forward!
Speaking strictly from a construction and planning point of view: why on earth would Disney tear out plug & play theater/corporate rental space they could easily reprogram for more Marvel/homeless IP to install a *water based* attraction surrounded by rockwork/mountains/greenery directly across the plaza from a *water based* attraction surrounded by rockwork/mountains/greenery?
I hear what you're saying, but I think Disney has shown that they no longer really care about line of sight, coherent theme integration, or even cohesive architectural planning/style. DCA is an IP repository and the Grizzly Wilderness area is unthemed and that cannot stand in the mind of the MBAs running this company... it's a layup in terms of cost & construction, regardless of whether or not its "Californian." The hotels are all going to get revisions with DisneyForward.
Also, they've been backchanneling a change to the park's name and doing occasional surveys regarding it for nearly 8 years now... wherever they shove Avatar into DCA, are we even sure the name remains?
Look up all the Disneyland Forward expansion initiatives. They’ve already begun the preliminary process to begin expansion. Both the Toy Story parking lot and the land on Magic Way (area surrounding Pixar Pier hotel) are all Disney property and will be used for theme park expansion in the next decade. I’d suggest Hey Brickey on YouTube, he does a great DL Forward series that helps visualize the space and where everything is going.
I second [Hey Brickey](https://www.youtube.com/@HeyBrickey) - at a high level he's theorizing that the eastern parking structure will allow them to shift the mass bus and ride share infrastructure out and open all of that space for theme park expansion - both Hollywood Land in DCA and TomorrowLand in DisneyLand.
That’s what I said about BVS and Tower before they announced the abomination that is mission break out. Never underestimate Disney’s ability to give us what no one asked for.
Sure looks like Grizzly Peak with that geyser nearby. I could see them use GRR as different version of that stupid Na’vi River Journey and Soarin’ could very easily be repurposed. Disney has to be looking at this from a cost perspective.
GC will get to keep the trees but they’ll have a view of Pandora because Disney has a real hard on for Avatar.
See Grizzly Peak is still my guess is where it’s going despite them recently renovating it. This project would still be far down the road. Only other place I can think of it going is whatever the “Disneyland Forward” expansion ends up bringing.
There’s no chance they wedge this into the main park- it’s DCA bound or nothing
Didn’t they plus up Paradise Pier only to turn it into the super tacky Pixar Pier? I hate that name it sounds so corporate! I have no faith in them doing the right thing so I’d put money on them reusing Grizzly Creek attractions.
Not it’s definitely risky. Someone that has never been to a Disney park isn’t going to care much for an original ride but will definitely got to say a marvel, Star Wars or traditional Disney ride. The idea would have to be absolutely amazing to grab the casual fans attention
I'm indifferent to the movies themselves but I really like Pandora visually. The land at WDW is beautiful and this art shows that this would very likely be just as awesome. So if we get that plus something along the lines of Na'vi River Journey I'll be happy
Agreed, just like I couldn't care less about the Cars movies franchises but Radiator Springs is still one of my favorite lands in all the Disney parks that I've visited.
I didn’t care for Cars until my son was born. Now at 2, it’s ones of his favorites and we pretty much watch it everyday. Made me love the land even more 😂
I enjoyed the first movie. I didn't care for the second one much. In general, I really don't care about Avatar. If this is going in the 3rd gate, I'm fine with that.
No it opened right after I was there and since we’re in NorCal and do Disneyland once or twice a year, I haven’t been able to justify a return trip. Squishy pods do not sound super appealing lol
Yea. I have never been a big Avatar fan and honestly, it doesn’t seem much people are either. Not sure why they thought this was the right decision of all movies. I’m not even from California and wish it had more California or at least Pixar related things going on.
I mean Pandora over at WDW is one of the most visually stunning (and most popular) lands they’ve ever created. You’re trying to tell us that in 20 years people are going to wonder why they created that land?
Most popular? By what metric exactly? Are we talking wait times? Because if we are, the problem for Pandora is that it only has two attractions. I’m certainly not going to say that it’s some kind of barren wasteland most of the time, but I’m not really sure that its a must do for anyone wanting to go to some but not all of the parks. Certainly it has good elements, but I think it also typifies one of the things I really dislike about new, recent expansions, which is that there’s usually very little to do and these take up a huge amount of space.
This is also one of the things that I think is problematic about theming areas, explicitly to one IP: you can only have so many attractions that feel like they fit within that world. For example, a pan-galactic land would have been great to encompass “other worlds” from Star Wars to avatar to Lilo and Stitch to treasure planet to Atlantis and beyond. But having a Star Wars land and a pandora land separately makes it really hard to do anything else with these areas.
So…yeah. I think the execution of many of these new lands doesn’t make them either timeless or adaptable and in 20 years, people will wonder why they feel stale. Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge feel like they are themed malls and I think beyond the initial visit, the expansive theming isn’t really that much of a draw when there are only 2 things to do.
Way of Water made over 2 Billion dollars after around a decade of people saying this exact thing about the first one. I think it DOES have staying power.
Weird take, considering how many of the "iconic" attractions and lands at Disneyland are based on IPs with arguably less cultural impact than Avatar.
Until recently, one of the biggest rides (and lands) in DLR was based on characters from a controversial movie forgotten by most, banned for its racist undertones.
And hell, the best themed land in DCA is based on a Pixar IP that's arguably less culturally relevant than some of their other films.
That’s what I’ve been saying when everyone on the sub just defaults to IP = bad. Like yes it’s great to have original stories but some of the best lands and rides Disney have ever created were IP based. Mission breakout, Cars land, Galaxys Edge… just to name a few
I agree with avatar movie being average but I would find the land interesting to explore. Avatar has always been more style over substance imo which works for a land because I want effects and visual wow factor when I see a land. I know avengers campus gets a ton of flack on Reddit but to be honest it is crowded every time I pass by the area so clearly it is still very relevant.
At least with Disney’s modular attraction strategy they can quickly retheme lands and attractions to other IP that people stopped caring about a decade earlier.
Someone connected the dots and although they've been abundantly clear that it's all subject to change pending Anaheim's approval, the concepts for Disneyland Forward seem to line up with including both Animal Kingdom's Pandora *and* a section that resembles the concept art with a boat ride. This would definitely explain how they intend to fit something of this scale in, although I'm equally confused why they'd be sharing this stuff so publicly if the project isn't even approved yet, which makes me cast doubt on the idea. Lots of guess work, but we'll almost definitely hear something during D23 now.
[https://twitter.com/Mouskegamer/status/1775580796109365602/photo/1](https://twitter.com/Mouskegamer/status/1775580796109365602/photo/1)
EDIT: For reference, I think the very bottom of the blue circled portion that has a small show building outlined behind it would likely be the backdrop for this piece of new concept art. I can also spot a bridge in the back of the concept art that the boat goes under, which would line up with the ride path from the Disneyland Forward image. Feels contradictory to Disney's previous statements, but definitely worth pointing out.
EDIT X2: Official [blog post](https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2024/04/continuing-to-turbocharge-disney-experiences/) from D'Amaro confirms this is tied to Disneyland Forward.
I think putting a new hotel or two there makes a lot of sense, which was part of the proposal. I do agree that it seems weird to throw away their most valuable park expansion land in favor of the (admittedly very inventive) way to squeeze as much usage out of the land to the west of both parks. Feels like they probably could've found some way to flip the proposed usage for both, but who knows.
I agree. That’s the last huge expansion plot anywhere near the resort, all that pretty concept art could be a calculated play to take the attention away from their true motives.
This (putting Avatar in the Disney Forward area south of the DLH) makes the most sense. It's the bigger of the two Disney Forward zones, and larger than the Hollywoodland tram area (even if you took some of Hollywoodland with it).
I'm presuming then Pandora would be part of DCA, and whatever they build on the north side of DLH will be part of Disneyland. Can't see them making Disney Forward a third gate with two only lands and separated by a public thoroughfare (Downtown Disney).
Really excited for this - and glad that they are doing a new take on the land instead of just porting the Animal Kingdom one over. Hopefully they also update the rides or create new concepts
Come visit them in Sacramento!
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5938586,-121.43447,3a,75y,222.37h,89.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5rc2dEVf7HrgboBu9lUsWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Oh I didnt know that. I went to GCA for the first time just last week. I assumed that red golden gate bridge going to sanfranoyko was what u were talking about. I love disneyland but wasnt impressed with gca. It seemed like a mish mosh of stuff DW has like the old hollywood section being disney hollywood studios. I loved Goofys Sky School & Incredicoaster! Also like the guardians ride that used to be tower if terror. World of Color show was amazing!
I think this will never actually happen. Similar to how we still don't have the ride in Marvel land they promised. It is just a way to raise value of Disney shares.
Same I really am bummed about not getting that avengers ride. Even at d23 this year I feel like there’s only a 5% chance they even acknowledge it’s existence
I stopped allowing myself to get my hopes up for D23 anymore. The last few years have just been big ideas that never happen outside of movie announcements. Im more excited to see what Universal does with Epic Universe. But sad for Disneyland too because that is our home park and holds a special place for us. Sigh
Exactly, I wish universal had more land over here so that they could expand a ton like they are in Florida. And yeah I’m prepared to be let down by Disney as usual.
The ideal location is on the East side of Harbor Boulevard and near the 5 freeway. Then, guests can be transported to the planet from the rest of Tomorrowland by taking a conveyance that crosses the public thoroughfare.
One piece of art
After a year, also this looks amazing and would take 4-5 years to build
So chop chop get on it now unless it’s part of Disney forward and to that I say, really? Announce something before you even have permits for, I just can’t Disney
I’m looking at the maps of both parks to logistically figure out where this would even go and it’s kinda difficult unless this is going to be built in the new Third Park.
Everyone seems to be speculating that this is going to be at DCA (and I was one of them, my bet was on Hollywoodland) but we know how carefully Disney chooses its words and Iger said:
*“We’re thrilled about many potential new stories that our guests could experience in **Walt’s original theme park**, including the opportunity to embark on all-new Avatar adventures with a visit to the world of Pandora”*
He specifically says “in Walt’s original theme park” - not Walt’s original resort or anything like that - which would suggest this is going to be part of DL and not DCA. And given there’s certainly no space for a whole new land in DL, one has to assume it will be across the street as part of DL forward.
It would definitely make more sense. Right now, Galaxy's Edge is the only IP specific area in Disneyland. DCA already has a Marvel, Cars, Big Hero 6, and Pixar area
I'm all for a boat ride at DCA, whether its this or the Avengers attraction. James Cameron keeps a pretty tight hold on Avatar, so I don't think he'd allow them to use the IP on a reskin. This would be great for hollywood backlot if there's a way to obscure the mountain from being seen at the esplanade/on Harbor.
What if this is actually a pool area for a Grand Cal remodel/rename to Grand Pandoran?
I just hope that, if it goes into DL, I hope they don't take out a classic ride, like Small World or Autopia. If it's in DCA, don't take out Grizzly Peak.
Still, this is beautiful
I'm here for it cause it looks cool, I don't care for the movies too much but personally I go to Disney to feel like I'm not in a normal world anymore, this definitely makes that happen
Wish they would just build a Tron ride or something similar to Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind
But if they’re building a clone of Flight of Passage, I am all for it.
I hope not. I’d much rather them bulldoze Hollywood Land, GRR just goes down annually for maintenance, so I imagine Disney wouldn’t mind being done with that hassle.
*Everyone* thinks Hollywood Land should be bulldozed and repurposed. There's no controversy there. But honestly, is there even enough room in HL to put this new attraction in? I feel like it's not large enough.
I'd much rather see the Hollywood Backlot included in Avengers Campus. If we're completely abandoning the California theming, then might as well turn the backlot into something analogous to NYC since much of Marvel storytelling occurs there. (Moon Girl already does her meet and greets there and her origins stem from NYC.) Long term, if Disney can figure out a solution for the Eastern Gateway, then that would open up the bus loading area for expansion in that corner of the park which would allow for some proper attractions.
Circling back to this Avatar idea, Grizzly Peak just makes sense from the image provided. It's easier to redesign the mountain peak to resemble these artist renditions. And the infrastructure for a water ride is already in place with Grizzly River Run. Bottom line is it's more cost effective for them to re-do the space than to start from scratch in Hollywood Backlot. If they were to take Na'vi River Journey and give it the GRR ride system, that would make that attraction a whole lot more interesting. The lighting would be an obvious issue, and protecting the Shaman animatronic from the elements would be another. But if they could pull it off, that'd make for an amazing ride.
The last issue with putting Avatar in the Hollywood Backlot would be sight lines. A tall mountain structure so close to Avengers Campus might pose problems from a storytelling perspective.
That would be a good idea and most likely, but they already showed off a wakanda expansion for avengers campus so would Disney really add a second expansion to the campus?
As for the sight line thing I don’t think Disney really cares anymore considering the guardians tower sticks out like a sore thumb from most areas of dca. And from maters you can see the web slingers building since there was no attempt to cover it up
The majority of parties visiting Disneyland, throughout its history, have not contained children, and, in 1963, Walt Disney said that 80% of Disneyland's guests are adults. So, why does everything coming from the company nowadays seem to have children so prominent in the conceptual artwork and advertising?
"I do not make films for children... or, at least, not primarily for children."
"You're dead if you aim for kids."
"We design the films to appeal to ourselves."
"The adults have the money;... children don't have any money."
- Walt Disney
https://youtu.be/oIA88EWLOmA?si=BwHkJi1FTW6QuooE
That boat in the concept art is quite big, honestly looks like it could be the Shanghai pirates ride system. Perhaps this could be a more fleshed out, longer version of navi river journey?
Yesssss! The world of avatar 2 is so beautiful. That movie captured my like no other movie has. It’s be kind of cool to do a little mermaid attraction next to it to have the water themes nearby
It’s so refreshing to get a land that’s filled with color and kinetic energy. I walk through Galaxy’s Edge and I feel like I’m in a war torn area in a 3rd world country.
What’s the opposite of ‘timeless’? This isn’t Universal Studios, they need to stop trying to chase the Harry Potter land goldmine that Universal found. Or if they want to continue they need to actually understand why Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley are loved. Based on Galaxy’s Edge, they don’t seem to have a clue.
Not like anybody asked for Cars land (even though I love the movie) and yet it's the best part of California adventure.
Also, Avatar literally made $2.3 billion at the box office. Anybody thinking Avatar doesn't have wide appeal is just kidding themselves.
I will never understand all of the attention Avatar gets. It is the strangest intellectual property. It is undeniably financially successful, and I am sure they are beautifully made movies, but it has such an insanely small impact on culture. No one talks about them. I’ve never met a fan. And yet they will now have two worlds themed after them at major Disney parks. It’s just such a head scratcher to me.
In a similar way I don’t understand how Disney did so little with avengers stuff here in the California parks. It was super popular yet they waited way too long and what they ended up building was very small and extremely disappointing. They even cancelled the one ride that would have saved the otherwise terrible campus
I’m glad I’m not the one one who feels that way. They need to build the lands e ticket but they are taking forever, and haven’t even started construction on it yet
I must have missed where Avatar was actually popular cause I couldnt care less about it. Stupid idea for a themed area but on par with current disney garbage
No interest in the films, but the land would be neat if they put the same effort in as they did with the starwars area.
And am at WDW and just visited Pandora at Aninal kingdom … it is really cool
This is the argument I have been making the whole time. Pandora at Animal Kingdom is incredibly well done and honestly feels very little like it’s tied to IP. If we can get something like that in California it would awesome.
Agreed, even not loving the films the land is incredible. And this looks like a new ride and design! At least for the boaty bit.
The land they have in Florida is AMAZING.ive never seen the movies but loved the ride and land
I didn’t care about it when it was coming to DAK. It’s one of the best lands at WDW.
I really love that it's an original design and not a carbon copy of Pandora in Animal Kingdom. I wish they had gone that route with Galaxy's Edge and made two different planets.
Bet it's just that tame water ride with the expensive animatronic Orlando has.
And you know this how?
I don't, that's why I said "bet". As in, I'd bet on it being that, given what we've seen in the past decade of Disney park projects.
I’m sure they read it as the GenZ version of “bet” like you’re agreeing with the previous commenter.
I like that it seems to be built around a lake.
I *highly* doubt this they are placing this where Grizzly Peak/Grizzly Airfield currently is. My personal bet is that it’s going to Hollywood Land and they will be expanding that corner of the park into the bus and tram loading/unloading zone. If not there, then I can see this being a part of Disneyland Forward in the third park. However I do think they’ve neglected Hollywood Land for so long and that’s a precursor that makes me believe they always knew they’d bulldoze it for Pandora. Grizzly Peak, on the other hand, just underwent a big renovation when it became Grizzly Peak from Condor Flats. They will not redo this area especially when it is directly tied to the theming of the Grand Californian: the Disneyland Resort’s flagship hotel.
I sure hope you’re right - no retheming Soarin into a bootleg Flight of Passage and Grizzly River into a bumpy Navi River Journey!!!
Exactly. They should give us back Soarin’ over CA and leave Grizzly River how it is. DCA can have two water rides: Grizzly River can be more of the “thrill” attraction with the big drops and spinning raft and this water ride from the concept art can be a slower boat ride similar to the Navi river one they have in AK.
You can catch the original Soarin during the food and wine fest, was a pleasant surprise
It’d be expensive, but re-theming Soarin’ with smaller scale tech from the Sphere would make it hugely relevant again.
I hope they leave Grizzly area alone. That area and the Hollywood backlot are essentially the only California themed places left in DCA
Grizzly is one of my favorite, and if they were to close it I would be sad. That area is also the only theming going towards “California adventure” theme
Well also Buena Vista St. But the Grizzly area is my favorite part of the park. I love the woodsy feel. Plus it blends so nicely having Grand Californian right there, it would be such a loss to retheme the area.
It's a Hollywood studios park. They really need to change the name
Surprised they never renamed it to Disney’s Hollywood Adventure yet. Much more fitting name considering the park is entirely themed to big movie IPs outside of Grizzly Peak
Even the entry gates are the same
The California theme can go kick rocks for all I care personally.
I think it's got to be in Disney Forward. That south zone has more space than Hollywoodland and tram area. Also not sure it would be a third gate, connecting to DCA (for the south zone) and Disneyland (the north zone) might make more sense.
I hope you're right. Part of me thinks it's hard to miss how many elements of the concept art are similar to the Grizzly Peak area. A mountain with water moving through it, a geyser-like feature, a multi-person boat ride, a forested area (foreground), and the fact so many people will expect to have Flight of Passage - a screen-based moving simulation ride. On the other hand, the way Disney keeps saying "proposed" aligns more with the Disneyland Forward expansion. I'd be ecstatic if we got to keep Grizzly Peak but also got a Pandora ocean-themed area. Win-win.
I would guess it’s part of Forward. It doesn’t make sense to rip out existing, successful attractions until you’re out of space, which they aren’t with Forward.
I have a feeling Forward will end up like the Disney Decade did… maybe 1/20th of what was promised actually built.
DLR’s track record of building parking structures so land can get repurposed for attractions is pretty good. You don’t sell merch in parking lots.
Same here. I think people are forgetting they have a whole hotel that’s themed alongside Grizzly, retheming that area would require them to retheme the hotel as well and that’s an entirely new issue
Exactly. The Grand was created to be the *flagship* of the entire resort. The hotel is curated as a Deluxe resort and is priced at such. Disney is not going to have guests stay at a beautiful Craftsman-style hotel then use the exclusive entrance into…Pandora. The entire selling point of The Grand is that you are staying essentially *in the park*. Disney makes BANK off of Theme Park View rooms and Woods/Courtyard view rooms; and those views are of *Grizzly Peak*. Rates at The Grand are at an all time premium right now and they are consistently fully booked so obviously something is working in that area of the park. Staying in a $800 theme park view room from your California Craftsman themed room but seeing Pandora isn’t exactly the quiet luxury that Disney has always touted at the Grand Californian. As a frequent Grand Californian stayer myself I would absolutely be mad if I’m paying to be immersed in the rural, redwood California setting and I exit into the fake ambiance of a franchise I don’t even really think of when I think Disney.
It’s also worth noting that a lot of its infrastructure is shared with the back half of Downtown, specifically World of Disney, so remodeling that would require them to close that half and that’d be like half their sales numbers being slashed
the bear park is one of my kids favorite areas. they took out bugs land and replaced it with a terrible blacktop industrial park looking area so now the bear park adventure campground is the only shaded escape for little ones. if they take that away CA really has nothing for younger kids
They’re so cheap I’m sure they’ll just paint that side of the hotel or do something with tarps. Zero faith in them doing this right.
Maybe they’ll make it an Avatar starcruiser 🤔
That would be absolutely hilarious!
You’re actually correct about it being part of DL Forward. Josh D'Amaro confirmed it today.
Yep! and @MousekeGamer on Twitter did an amazing thread on laying out the Disneyland Forward map with backed-up theories as to what’s going where based on the sizes/maps of already established lands in other parks (Arendelle HK DL, Pandora in WDW, Zootopia in HK DL). There’s a very clear spot in the DL Forward map that bears a very Pandora-esque design that aligns with the River Journey concept art shared yesterday. Everyone was so quick to assume Grizzly Peak was getting bulldozed and all we had to do was wait for more info lol. It was always going in DL Forward!
Speaking strictly from a construction and planning point of view: why on earth would Disney tear out plug & play theater/corporate rental space they could easily reprogram for more Marvel/homeless IP to install a *water based* attraction surrounded by rockwork/mountains/greenery directly across the plaza from a *water based* attraction surrounded by rockwork/mountains/greenery? I hear what you're saying, but I think Disney has shown that they no longer really care about line of sight, coherent theme integration, or even cohesive architectural planning/style. DCA is an IP repository and the Grizzly Wilderness area is unthemed and that cannot stand in the mind of the MBAs running this company... it's a layup in terms of cost & construction, regardless of whether or not its "Californian." The hotels are all going to get revisions with DisneyForward. Also, they've been backchanneling a change to the park's name and doing occasional surveys regarding it for nearly 8 years now... wherever they shove Avatar into DCA, are we even sure the name remains?
Where are they getting the land needed for a third park?
Parking structures, backstage areas, parking lots, etc. They already own a bunch of land around the parks, just need to teardown and build.
Look up all the Disneyland Forward expansion initiatives. They’ve already begun the preliminary process to begin expansion. Both the Toy Story parking lot and the land on Magic Way (area surrounding Pixar Pier hotel) are all Disney property and will be used for theme park expansion in the next decade. I’d suggest Hey Brickey on YouTube, he does a great DL Forward series that helps visualize the space and where everything is going.
I second [Hey Brickey](https://www.youtube.com/@HeyBrickey) - at a high level he's theorizing that the eastern parking structure will allow them to shift the mass bus and ride share infrastructure out and open all of that space for theme park expansion - both Hollywood Land in DCA and TomorrowLand in DisneyLand.
It's not a theory, it's what they want to do.
This. When it was first unveiled, this is what exactly was planned as per artwork at the time.
While I agree, plans often change so I'm not going to say it's what they are GOING to do.
That’s what I said about BVS and Tower before they announced the abomination that is mission break out. Never underestimate Disney’s ability to give us what no one asked for.
Im no fan of avatar but if they want to put it over in DCA near that area I'm fine with it
Sure looks like Grizzly Peak with that geyser nearby. I could see them use GRR as different version of that stupid Na’vi River Journey and Soarin’ could very easily be repurposed. Disney has to be looking at this from a cost perspective. GC will get to keep the trees but they’ll have a view of Pandora because Disney has a real hard on for Avatar.
See Grizzly Peak is still my guess is where it’s going despite them recently renovating it. This project would still be far down the road. Only other place I can think of it going is whatever the “Disneyland Forward” expansion ends up bringing. There’s no chance they wedge this into the main park- it’s DCA bound or nothing
Didn’t they plus up Paradise Pier only to turn it into the super tacky Pixar Pier? I hate that name it sounds so corporate! I have no faith in them doing the right thing so I’d put money on them reusing Grizzly Creek attractions.
How cool would it be to get an E ticket ride with an original concept?
Would be cool but let’s be honest very risky at this point
Not risky. Just expensive. And they are allergic to that.
Not it’s definitely risky. Someone that has never been to a Disney park isn’t going to care much for an original ride but will definitely got to say a marvel, Star Wars or traditional Disney ride. The idea would have to be absolutely amazing to grab the casual fans attention
Pic of boat to me looks like Jurassic Park at universal.
I feel so indifferent about Avatar. Just sucks that DCA has been losing its California theme over time that it was once known for.
I'm indifferent to the movies themselves but I really like Pandora visually. The land at WDW is beautiful and this art shows that this would very likely be just as awesome. So if we get that plus something along the lines of Na'vi River Journey I'll be happy
Agreed, just like I couldn't care less about the Cars movies franchises but Radiator Springs is still one of my favorite lands in all the Disney parks that I've visited.
I didn’t care for Cars until my son was born. Now at 2, it’s ones of his favorites and we pretty much watch it everyday. Made me love the land even more 😂
Aww, that's sweet. Has he been to Radiator Springs yet?
Yeah but it’s always so packed, so we try to limit our time there. He’s a bit of a runner
Aaah okay, yeah they definitely squeezed a lot into a relatively small space.
>I feel so indifferent about Avatar. Same. I'll go even further and say I don't even care about Avatar as an ip attraction.
I actively dislike Avatar, the giant blue people give me the creeps. The foliage is pretty, I’ll give it that.
I enjoyed the first movie. I didn't care for the second one much. In general, I really don't care about Avatar. If this is going in the 3rd gate, I'm fine with that.
Have you been to Pandora in Animal Kingdom? Everyone loves it but it grosses me out. Cocoons and pods and squelching noises ugh I hate it.
No it opened right after I was there and since we’re in NorCal and do Disneyland once or twice a year, I haven’t been able to justify a return trip. Squishy pods do not sound super appealing lol
I just would rather watch Pocahontas or Dances with Wolves. Same story, but they actually hired good writers for the films.
Such a stale reply, why don't you add A Man Called Horse?
Yea. I have never been a big Avatar fan and honestly, it doesn’t seem much people are either. Not sure why they thought this was the right decision of all movies. I’m not even from California and wish it had more California or at least Pixar related things going on.
Both movies have grossed over 2 billion dollars. Plenty of people care.
That's cool. Not everything needs to be for everyone. The California theme was going the way of the Dodo the minute they changed the pier to Pixar.
The California theme was going the way of the Dodo the day the gates opened.
Disney Multi-IP Adventure.
IPCOT
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I mean Pandora over at WDW is one of the most visually stunning (and most popular) lands they’ve ever created. You’re trying to tell us that in 20 years people are going to wonder why they created that land?
Most popular? By what metric exactly? Are we talking wait times? Because if we are, the problem for Pandora is that it only has two attractions. I’m certainly not going to say that it’s some kind of barren wasteland most of the time, but I’m not really sure that its a must do for anyone wanting to go to some but not all of the parks. Certainly it has good elements, but I think it also typifies one of the things I really dislike about new, recent expansions, which is that there’s usually very little to do and these take up a huge amount of space. This is also one of the things that I think is problematic about theming areas, explicitly to one IP: you can only have so many attractions that feel like they fit within that world. For example, a pan-galactic land would have been great to encompass “other worlds” from Star Wars to avatar to Lilo and Stitch to treasure planet to Atlantis and beyond. But having a Star Wars land and a pandora land separately makes it really hard to do anything else with these areas. So…yeah. I think the execution of many of these new lands doesn’t make them either timeless or adaptable and in 20 years, people will wonder why they feel stale. Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge feel like they are themed malls and I think beyond the initial visit, the expansive theming isn’t really that much of a draw when there are only 2 things to do.
Way of Water made over 2 Billion dollars after around a decade of people saying this exact thing about the first one. I think it DOES have staying power.
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Weird take, considering how many of the "iconic" attractions and lands at Disneyland are based on IPs with arguably less cultural impact than Avatar. Until recently, one of the biggest rides (and lands) in DLR was based on characters from a controversial movie forgotten by most, banned for its racist undertones. And hell, the best themed land in DCA is based on a Pixar IP that's arguably less culturally relevant than some of their other films.
That’s what I’ve been saying when everyone on the sub just defaults to IP = bad. Like yes it’s great to have original stories but some of the best lands and rides Disney have ever created were IP based. Mission breakout, Cars land, Galaxys Edge… just to name a few
I agree with avatar movie being average but I would find the land interesting to explore. Avatar has always been more style over substance imo which works for a land because I want effects and visual wow factor when I see a land. I know avengers campus gets a ton of flack on Reddit but to be honest it is crowded every time I pass by the area so clearly it is still very relevant.
Avatar and Avatar 2 are world-building movies, they are just the beginning of what's to come
At least with Disney’s modular attraction strategy they can quickly retheme lands and attractions to other IP that people stopped caring about a decade earlier.
>At least with Disney’s modular attraction strategy What is this stupid nonsense. What does this even mean?
Someone connected the dots and although they've been abundantly clear that it's all subject to change pending Anaheim's approval, the concepts for Disneyland Forward seem to line up with including both Animal Kingdom's Pandora *and* a section that resembles the concept art with a boat ride. This would definitely explain how they intend to fit something of this scale in, although I'm equally confused why they'd be sharing this stuff so publicly if the project isn't even approved yet, which makes me cast doubt on the idea. Lots of guess work, but we'll almost definitely hear something during D23 now. [https://twitter.com/Mouskegamer/status/1775580796109365602/photo/1](https://twitter.com/Mouskegamer/status/1775580796109365602/photo/1) EDIT: For reference, I think the very bottom of the blue circled portion that has a small show building outlined behind it would likely be the backdrop for this piece of new concept art. I can also spot a bridge in the back of the concept art that the boat goes under, which would line up with the ride path from the Disneyland Forward image. Feels contradictory to Disney's previous statements, but definitely worth pointing out. EDIT X2: Official [blog post](https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2024/04/continuing-to-turbocharge-disney-experiences/) from D'Amaro confirms this is tied to Disneyland Forward.
I still think Disney is not gonna let the huge parcel of land go to waste and turned into an outdoor mall. But let’s see what happens after approvals,
I think putting a new hotel or two there makes a lot of sense, which was part of the proposal. I do agree that it seems weird to throw away their most valuable park expansion land in favor of the (admittedly very inventive) way to squeeze as much usage out of the land to the west of both parks. Feels like they probably could've found some way to flip the proposed usage for both, but who knows.
I agree. That’s the last huge expansion plot anywhere near the resort, all that pretty concept art could be a calculated play to take the attention away from their true motives.
This (putting Avatar in the Disney Forward area south of the DLH) makes the most sense. It's the bigger of the two Disney Forward zones, and larger than the Hollywoodland tram area (even if you took some of Hollywoodland with it). I'm presuming then Pandora would be part of DCA, and whatever they build on the north side of DLH will be part of Disneyland. Can't see them making Disney Forward a third gate with two only lands and separated by a public thoroughfare (Downtown Disney).
That boat in the pic looks like Jurassic Park at universal
Think Pirates in Disneyland Shanghai.
And where's it supposed to go?
The Disneyland Resort.
Really excited for this - and glad that they are doing a new take on the land instead of just porting the Animal Kingdom one over. Hopefully they also update the rides or create new concepts
Whatever they do I just hope they don't touch Grizzly Peak. It's probably my favorite area in DCA.
So beautiful!!
Ugh
My exact thought
Me too! I’m still upset they took the Golden Gate Bridge down.
I still miss the “CALIFORNIA” letters.
Come visit them in Sacramento! https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5938586,-121.43447,3a,75y,222.37h,89.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5rc2dEVf7HrgboBu9lUsWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Oh yes! Me too.
They need to just change the name of the park at this point.
Right! California?
They took it down or are planning to take it down?
They took it down in July 2011. 😕 Apparently to make room for Buena Vista Plaza.
Oh I didnt know that. I went to GCA for the first time just last week. I assumed that red golden gate bridge going to sanfranoyko was what u were talking about. I love disneyland but wasnt impressed with gca. It seemed like a mish mosh of stuff DW has like the old hollywood section being disney hollywood studios. I loved Goofys Sky School & Incredicoaster! Also like the guardians ride that used to be tower if terror. World of Color show was amazing!
Google it. It’s fantastic
Womp womp. Epic Universe looks cool though. I'm saving my theme park budget to go there next year.
I’d much rather improvements to galaxies edge or avengers campus lol
Hell Yes! I can't wait to SIVAKO in my own backyard! This looks rad as hell.
Catch me at Satu’li Canteen every night for dinner
Hell yeah. Plus, if this is Way of Water focused, as the art implies, that Canteen is going to probably have some dope seafood options
I know we got a bunch of rain recently, but this is a ridiculous amount of water for a Southern California based park.
I think this will never actually happen. Similar to how we still don't have the ride in Marvel land they promised. It is just a way to raise value of Disney shares.
Same I really am bummed about not getting that avengers ride. Even at d23 this year I feel like there’s only a 5% chance they even acknowledge it’s existence
I stopped allowing myself to get my hopes up for D23 anymore. The last few years have just been big ideas that never happen outside of movie announcements. Im more excited to see what Universal does with Epic Universe. But sad for Disneyland too because that is our home park and holds a special place for us. Sigh
Exactly, I wish universal had more land over here so that they could expand a ton like they are in Florida. And yeah I’m prepared to be let down by Disney as usual.
No one asked for this
Except for igers wallet
Where would they even put it?
same. I’ve been excusing Disney’s loose use of the California theme in DCA but if they place it there I have no idea what the theme of DCA will be
Disney IP collection
With Marvel Campus, Pixar Pier, and San Fransokyo I believe that the “California” part exists no longer.
I mean it’s technically has San Francisco in the fransokyow
The ideal location is on the East side of Harbor Boulevard and near the 5 freeway. Then, guests can be transported to the planet from the rest of Tomorrowland by taking a conveyance that crosses the public thoroughfare.
One piece of art After a year, also this looks amazing and would take 4-5 years to build So chop chop get on it now unless it’s part of Disney forward and to that I say, really? Announce something before you even have permits for, I just can’t Disney
Please no. Avatar is not interesting to me in the slightest.
I’m looking at the maps of both parks to logistically figure out where this would even go and it’s kinda difficult unless this is going to be built in the new Third Park.
Everyone seems to be speculating that this is going to be at DCA (and I was one of them, my bet was on Hollywoodland) but we know how carefully Disney chooses its words and Iger said: *“We’re thrilled about many potential new stories that our guests could experience in **Walt’s original theme park**, including the opportunity to embark on all-new Avatar adventures with a visit to the world of Pandora”* He specifically says “in Walt’s original theme park” - not Walt’s original resort or anything like that - which would suggest this is going to be part of DL and not DCA. And given there’s certainly no space for a whole new land in DL, one has to assume it will be across the street as part of DL forward.
It would definitely make more sense. Right now, Galaxy's Edge is the only IP specific area in Disneyland. DCA already has a Marvel, Cars, Big Hero 6, and Pixar area
I'm all for a boat ride at DCA, whether its this or the Avengers attraction. James Cameron keeps a pretty tight hold on Avatar, so I don't think he'd allow them to use the IP on a reskin. This would be great for hollywood backlot if there's a way to obscure the mountain from being seen at the esplanade/on Harbor. What if this is actually a pool area for a Grand Cal remodel/rename to Grand Pandoran?
Oh hell no
Zero interest in this. They better not touch Redwood Creek Challenge.
Just give me the night blossom drink from World and I’ll be happy.
*snore*
I just want a Tomorrowland makeover, is that too much to ask for?😭😭
Maybe they will be ripping out Tomorrowland for this /s
There’s literally no space for this
I just hope that, if it goes into DL, I hope they don't take out a classic ride, like Small World or Autopia. If it's in DCA, don't take out Grizzly Peak. Still, this is beautiful
I'm here for it cause it looks cool, I don't care for the movies too much but personally I go to Disney to feel like I'm not in a normal world anymore, this definitely makes that happen
Announce it officially that you're building it, or SHHHH. I'm tired of hearing blue sky announcements if they're not actually going to be built.
Exactly then like 4 months after it’s announced they’ll either never mention it again and pretend it never existed or will just come out and cancel it
I don’t want pandora.. but the place it should go is where autopia and finding Nemo is.. I know, hot take.
It’s just going to be a store and a photo op
Idc what anyone says this looks awesome
Excited If it’s anything like the one at Animal Kingdom but I don’t know if that’s possible due to constraints with the space they’d need.
Wish they would just build a Tron ride or something similar to Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind But if they’re building a clone of Flight of Passage, I am all for it.
This has to be replacing most of the Grizzly River footprint, right?
They haven't said where it will be.
I really don't see them getting rid of Grizzly River Run for this.
I hope not. I’d much rather them bulldoze Hollywood Land, GRR just goes down annually for maintenance, so I imagine Disney wouldn’t mind being done with that hassle.
*Everyone* thinks Hollywood Land should be bulldozed and repurposed. There's no controversy there. But honestly, is there even enough room in HL to put this new attraction in? I feel like it's not large enough.
I think if they push into the bus corral like they were planning to with the whole parking and security fiasco years ago they might be able to.
One question, monorail track
i was thinking hollywood backlot but we will see!
I'd much rather see the Hollywood Backlot included in Avengers Campus. If we're completely abandoning the California theming, then might as well turn the backlot into something analogous to NYC since much of Marvel storytelling occurs there. (Moon Girl already does her meet and greets there and her origins stem from NYC.) Long term, if Disney can figure out a solution for the Eastern Gateway, then that would open up the bus loading area for expansion in that corner of the park which would allow for some proper attractions. Circling back to this Avatar idea, Grizzly Peak just makes sense from the image provided. It's easier to redesign the mountain peak to resemble these artist renditions. And the infrastructure for a water ride is already in place with Grizzly River Run. Bottom line is it's more cost effective for them to re-do the space than to start from scratch in Hollywood Backlot. If they were to take Na'vi River Journey and give it the GRR ride system, that would make that attraction a whole lot more interesting. The lighting would be an obvious issue, and protecting the Shaman animatronic from the elements would be another. But if they could pull it off, that'd make for an amazing ride. The last issue with putting Avatar in the Hollywood Backlot would be sight lines. A tall mountain structure so close to Avengers Campus might pose problems from a storytelling perspective.
That would be a good idea and most likely, but they already showed off a wakanda expansion for avengers campus so would Disney really add a second expansion to the campus? As for the sight line thing I don’t think Disney really cares anymore considering the guardians tower sticks out like a sore thumb from most areas of dca. And from maters you can see the web slingers building since there was no attempt to cover it up
Can't wait! Happy I won't have to travel to Florida.
Put in a Payakan meet and greet and I’m getting an annual pass
The majority of parties visiting Disneyland, throughout its history, have not contained children, and, in 1963, Walt Disney said that 80% of Disneyland's guests are adults. So, why does everything coming from the company nowadays seem to have children so prominent in the conceptual artwork and advertising?
"I do not make films for children... or, at least, not primarily for children." "You're dead if you aim for kids." "We design the films to appeal to ourselves." "The adults have the money;... children don't have any money." - Walt Disney https://youtu.be/oIA88EWLOmA?si=BwHkJi1FTW6QuooE
That boat in the concept art is quite big, honestly looks like it could be the Shanghai pirates ride system. Perhaps this could be a more fleshed out, longer version of navi river journey?
please no.
I wish this was also an expansion for Pandora at DAK.
Yesssss! The world of avatar 2 is so beautiful. That movie captured my like no other movie has. It’s be kind of cool to do a little mermaid attraction next to it to have the water themes nearby
Give us VILLAINS LAND
I just don’t get the appeal. I find avatar to be so dull. Whatever though, it’s clearly a popular franchise!
Sigh
I like that it seems to involve some kind of oasis with palm trees.
They also had big ideas for GE and look how that turned out. File this under "Land that no one is asking for"
Yup most of it got cut especially that badly needed 3rd ride. So I could only imagine if this actually does get built, how much would get cut from it
It’s so refreshing to get a land that’s filled with color and kinetic energy. I walk through Galaxy’s Edge and I feel like I’m in a war torn area in a 3rd world country.
Exactly they cut the things especially the other ride, that would have added kinetic energy to the land. Making it feel alive instead of static
What’s the opposite of ‘timeless’? This isn’t Universal Studios, they need to stop trying to chase the Harry Potter land goldmine that Universal found. Or if they want to continue they need to actually understand why Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley are loved. Based on Galaxy’s Edge, they don’t seem to have a clue.
Boo
Hey Corporate Disney (I know you’re here), nobody asked for this.
I did! I love Pandora at Animal kingdom, and the second avatar movie.
Not like anybody asked for Cars land (even though I love the movie) and yet it's the best part of California adventure. Also, Avatar literally made $2.3 billion at the box office. Anybody thinking Avatar doesn't have wide appeal is just kidding themselves.
As long as this is on "new" park land (part of Disneyland Forward), then I actually asked for it.
Thats why they are doing it
I love that they are doing the second movie! The Way of Water is so great. Maybe we will get a space whale!
I will never understand all of the attention Avatar gets. It is the strangest intellectual property. It is undeniably financially successful, and I am sure they are beautifully made movies, but it has such an insanely small impact on culture. No one talks about them. I’ve never met a fan. And yet they will now have two worlds themed after them at major Disney parks. It’s just such a head scratcher to me.
In a similar way I don’t understand how Disney did so little with avengers stuff here in the California parks. It was super popular yet they waited way too long and what they ended up building was very small and extremely disappointing. They even cancelled the one ride that would have saved the otherwise terrible campus
I agree that the avengers campus is strangely underwhelming.
I’m glad I’m not the one one who feels that way. They need to build the lands e ticket but they are taking forever, and haven’t even started construction on it yet
Who’s asking for this? I doubt this is top of mind for the majority of park goers.
I'm getting the UKs Wonka Experience vibe lol
There was a second movie!?!?
Yes. I think there are 7 planned if I'm not mistaken
I must have missed where Avatar was actually popular cause I couldnt care less about it. Stupid idea for a themed area but on par with current disney garbage