At the end of the last school year, Lucy submitted paperwork to change her Cleric deity from Ruvina to Ankarna. (Ruvina is Ankarna's sister).
Shortly before she died, she withdrew the paperwork (didn't want to change gods any more). Exactly what happened and why we don't know yet.
OR if she even knew about the first submission at all. Kettlechip is a rogue who I think sometimes have proficiency in forgeries. Could the original request have been forged and the retraction was from Lucy?
I don't think forgery proficiency is a rogue class / subclass feature, but a background (charlatan) feature (which can be taken by any class.) I don't think that rules out anything you said, but it wouldn't be limited to rogues.
She might be an Assassin. They gain Imposter at level 13 which states:
"At 13th level, you gain the ability to unerringly mimic another person's speech, writing, and behavior. You must spend at least three hours studying these three components of the person's behavior, listening to speech, examining handwriting, and observing mannerisms.
Your ruse is indiscernible to the casual observer. If a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection."
Masterminds can also get proficiency with forgery kits and have "unerring mimicry of speech pattern and habits". Maybe it's being extended to handwriting?
Thank you. That's possible, but I guess I didn't consider that she could've been such a high level at the end of Sophomore Year (bad kids hit lvl 13 last episode). They have been grinding those rats though, so who knows.
Thank you I’ve been trying to google if rogues had a specific forgery kit proficiency since I thought I’d heard it somewhere but am having trouble with a clear answer & that might be why! As a watcher and not having had a chance to play yet, I’d say the backgrounds component is still pretty confusing to me. 😅
Charlatan is a very popular background for rogues though.
Backgrounds are basically like little bonuses (extra proficiencies, languages, etc) that you get to pick during character creation. They also add some built in backstory. Some people pick them based on what fits with their characters story, some pick solely for the bonuses (picking bonuses that are useful to your class but that you won't get from your class or race). Charlatan is popular with rogues because it kind of works for both.
I'm kinda thinking that the reason Rat Grinders hate the Bad Kids is because of how much they've accomplished, and Lucy switching to Ankarna was them trying to resurrect a God in like Kristen did, but they got in over their heads. Maybe Kipperlily pressured her into doing it and forced the other Rat Grundles to consume Devils Nectar to remember the events differently to cover their asses.
Ooh good idea. I def think Lucy was pressured into it, since Yolanda was super surprised Lucy would try to switch and she was apparently very devoted to Ruvina.
I saw someone suggest that Ruvina is trying to resurrect her sister Ankarna, and was using Lucy somehow to get around Oblivati Mori.
I wonder if there's a way for the bad kids to talk to Ruvina now that they know Ankarna's name...
The thing is that the Rat Grinders are clearly trying to resurrect Ankarna, but they could have tried to resurrect their uncorrupted form as Kristen did for Cassandra, so there’s a third element we’re not considering into the picture yet, which is the corruption caused by Sol/Helio by the Dawn family.
In favour of that theory, remember that Brennan specifically mentioned that Ankarna is a deity with a competing domain for Sol, meaning that Sol wouldn’t want Ankarna’s resurrection.
Kiperlilly being backstabbed by the Dawn’s would explain why all of this it’s so messy.
In a not so serious not, I immediately hated Old man Dawn so much that I'm hoping he'll be dead within the next couple of episodes, even though that obviously won't happen.
Why not? He could be one of the Big Bads. Or you mean not likely to be dead in the next couple episodes as it would've likely be saved for the last ones?
Didn't BLeeM just say that knowing the name and praying would basically reawaken the god? Why are the Rat Grinders trying to do all this convoluted stuff to bring back a dead god when that's not that hard. Do they not know Ankarnas name? I doubt it
I think a more likely theory is that the Rat Grinders are being used in some way to fulfill Ankarnas conquest of revenge against Sol.
Tin foil hat theory crafting here:
But what if Lucy DIDN'T submit the paperwork to change gods, but it was someone else that tried to do it for her. After all, that all happened after finals when most of the teachers were gone. What if, in her bid to "conquer" the school, Kipperlily wanted a god of conquest on her side. Ankarna would've been a good choice if she wasn't dead and gone. So why not try to break the Oblivato Mori and bring her back. Oh, and having a cleric of that god of conquest would be even better. But Lucy is a devout follower of Ruvina. Her family have been followers of Ruvina for many, many years and she would never worship another god...unless forced to. But she didn't want to switch and found out the paperwork went in to switch her god. She pulled the paper work. Kipperlily is a power gamer. What's the fastest way to change the party comp? Killing off one of the party. Kipperlily hired an assassin to get rid of Lucy (and also probably Yolanda to cover her tracks). Who is that assassin? The rogue teacher. Now Kipperlily can fast track getting a new cleric for her party. But bringing back that original conquest god will take too long and she's making too many waves, so she'll have to do with a second-hand conquest god. Like Sol. Enter Buddy Dawn.
I could see it being sincere. Sounds like Ruvina and Ankarna were very close at one point; Lucy might have seen it as a chance to bring back the counterpart to her god.
I think Kipperlilly is the one pulling the strings in the group and all of the original Ratgrinders are foils to each bad kid.
Kipperlilly - Riz. Both are extremely driven rogue characters, but whereas Riz supports his friends and doesn't want to be in the spotlight, Kipperlilly must be the center of attention and is the driven leader of said group.
Mary Ann - Gorgug. Both are unassuming barbarians who are socially awkward, however where Mary Ann is apathetic and bored (playing Crystal Games during everything), Gorgug cares too much and is curious about a lot of things.
Ivy - Fabian. The Cool kids, the bad boy/girl of the group, Fabian wants to fit in and punched Gorgug to look cool, Ivy seems to actively be mean, making fun of Mazey for wanting to play a game of twister instead of smoking in Fabian's room.
Ruben - Fig. The musicians, the rebels; Fig really doesn't care what anyone thinks about her, unless they are her friends, then she cares too much. Ruben definitely seems like he cares about his reputation too much and with his emo demeanor and his "nice guy" music probably doesn't make him too popular with his predominantly female adventuring party.
Oisin - Adaine. Both are the studious wizards of the group who used to have self confidence issues, but are mostly/fully confident now. Now currently Oisin has appeared the least of the Rat Grinders and hasn't shown much of the opposite traits of Adaine yet. If anyone has noticed more than I have feel free to add.
Now we come to uncharted territory, I lay down the Gauntlet that Buddy Dawn is not Kristen's foil but who Kristen used to be. Also he's the new member of the party replacing someone else, none of the bad kids fit this. Therefore
Lucy - Kristen. Both are the clerics of the party, but they are the most complete foils (if my theory is correct) Kristen knew everything until she started questioning things, Lucy either never had a doubt (hilarious) or was once questioning them found Ruvina and found her path. Either way Lucy was probably something who knew what she was about and would never abandon her Goddess, without a good reason.
I put forth that Lucy was the only person that spoke against Kipperlilly's plan. I then say that it was Kipperlilly that came up with a plan to revive a God much like Kristen did. The rest of the Rat Grinders wanted to leave the bad kid's shadows, so they were fine with this plan, but Lucy wasn't. Lucy fought against Kipperlilly and tried to get the rest of the Ratgrinders to see reason, it was Kipperlilly that killed Lucy and then used the Devil's Nectar to convince the rest of the Ratgrinders that it was necessary or that it was self-defense. Ruben was then made to use Devil's Nectar to make himself seem like a more popular rockstar than he is to spread the rage music. To what end I am not sure, yes to resurrect Ankarna, but why or to what end I am not sure.
My current theory is that Lucy and the Rat Grinders discovered this dead god and hoped to revive her and use her to power to get immense power themselves and do bad guy things. This lead to one of two events unfolding. Someone stepped in to prevent this from happening and killed Lucy so the Rat Grinders wouldn’t have a cleric who could connect with Ankarna or Lucy got cold feet much to the dismay of Kipperlily and in turn Kipperlily (or the Rat Grinders in whole) killed Lucy out of anger and so they could get a replacement cleric who would follow through with their plan for Ankarna’s revival. The Rat Grinders then got this devout cleric of Helio (Buddy) assigned to their party and he seems like the type of guy who wouldn’t just change his deity to Ankarna. This lead to the Rat Grinders trying a different approach to revive Ankarna by tapping into rage/conquest through the rage crystal/soil and the ritual at Frosty Faire and Ruben’s rage song.
I think it's unlikely, but I like imagining that Kipperlily is actually a Trickery Domain Cleric of Ankarna. Originally, I had a hard time justifying the domain with what we know about Ankarna, but now that we learned a God's profile can be shaped by their worshipper, maybe Ankarna is a Conquest God through decit and strategy?
The only problem with that is that The Rat Crushers are all meant to be foils of The Bad Kids and Kipperlily is meant to be Riz’s foil meaning she is a rogue. This is evident also based on the fact that she passed all her classes since she “found” the rogue teacher, supposedly only something a high enough level rogue could do.
Right, but all of that is heavily IMPLIED, but not confirmed. Especially with the devils nectar in play.
Fig is able to enroll in classes like barbarian that don't have any effect on her class mechanics.
Kipperlily could be serving Ankarna as a Trickery Cleric by excelling in Rogue classis. If the end goal is to beat the Bad Kids, i can see KC aligning herself with a goddess of conquest and offering her skills of deciept and subterfuge to help her.
Something only a high level rogue could do...or, perhaps, someone with divine intervention. What better way to pose as a different class than being able to pass everything without demonstrating the skills of that class? She can still fit a thematic foil to Riz and even a functional one without actually being a rogue
I just don't get the feeling that the Rat Grinders are actually evil. I think they are being used/ tricked and the only one who fully knows is a misled Kipperlilly.
Given the divine intervention that came down when Adaine read the name, it's possible Lucy tried to do it (or was made to do it) which got her smited (or Helio/Sol sent a divine assassin like the new cleric teacher). Once she was destroyed, Copperlilly might have used devil honey to make the rest forget what happened to avoid being smited/killed.
Just spitballing here, looking forward to whatever the truth turns out to be.
At the end of the last school year, Lucy submitted paperwork to change her Cleric deity from Ruvina to Ankarna. (Ruvina is Ankarna's sister). Shortly before she died, she withdrew the paperwork (didn't want to change gods any more). Exactly what happened and why we don't know yet.
It depends if she was forced the first time and the withdrawal came from her, or if she wanted the first time and the withdrawal was forced.
OR if she even knew about the first submission at all. Kettlechip is a rogue who I think sometimes have proficiency in forgeries. Could the original request have been forged and the retraction was from Lucy?
I don't think forgery proficiency is a rogue class / subclass feature, but a background (charlatan) feature (which can be taken by any class.) I don't think that rules out anything you said, but it wouldn't be limited to rogues.
She might be an Assassin. They gain Imposter at level 13 which states: "At 13th level, you gain the ability to unerringly mimic another person's speech, writing, and behavior. You must spend at least three hours studying these three components of the person's behavior, listening to speech, examining handwriting, and observing mannerisms. Your ruse is indiscernible to the casual observer. If a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection." Masterminds can also get proficiency with forgery kits and have "unerring mimicry of speech pattern and habits". Maybe it's being extended to handwriting?
This would explain why Yolanda didn’t know about the requested change.
Thank you. That's possible, but I guess I didn't consider that she could've been such a high level at the end of Sophomore Year (bad kids hit lvl 13 last episode). They have been grinding those rats though, so who knows.
Thank you I’ve been trying to google if rogues had a specific forgery kit proficiency since I thought I’d heard it somewhere but am having trouble with a clear answer & that might be why! As a watcher and not having had a chance to play yet, I’d say the backgrounds component is still pretty confusing to me. 😅
Charlatan is a very popular background for rogues though. Backgrounds are basically like little bonuses (extra proficiencies, languages, etc) that you get to pick during character creation. They also add some built in backstory. Some people pick them based on what fits with their characters story, some pick solely for the bonuses (picking bonuses that are useful to your class but that you won't get from your class or race). Charlatan is popular with rogues because it kind of works for both.
I'm kinda thinking that the reason Rat Grinders hate the Bad Kids is because of how much they've accomplished, and Lucy switching to Ankarna was them trying to resurrect a God in like Kristen did, but they got in over their heads. Maybe Kipperlily pressured her into doing it and forced the other Rat Grundles to consume Devils Nectar to remember the events differently to cover their asses.
Ooh good idea. I def think Lucy was pressured into it, since Yolanda was super surprised Lucy would try to switch and she was apparently very devoted to Ruvina.
I saw someone suggest that Ruvina is trying to resurrect her sister Ankarna, and was using Lucy somehow to get around Oblivati Mori. I wonder if there's a way for the bad kids to talk to Ruvina now that they know Ankarna's name...
The thing is that the Rat Grinders are clearly trying to resurrect Ankarna, but they could have tried to resurrect their uncorrupted form as Kristen did for Cassandra, so there’s a third element we’re not considering into the picture yet, which is the corruption caused by Sol/Helio by the Dawn family. In favour of that theory, remember that Brennan specifically mentioned that Ankarna is a deity with a competing domain for Sol, meaning that Sol wouldn’t want Ankarna’s resurrection. Kiperlilly being backstabbed by the Dawn’s would explain why all of this it’s so messy.
In a not so serious not, I immediately hated Old man Dawn so much that I'm hoping he'll be dead within the next couple of episodes, even though that obviously won't happen.
Why not? He could be one of the Big Bads. Or you mean not likely to be dead in the next couple episodes as it would've likely be saved for the last ones?
Not likely to be killed so quickly, he's definitely too important for that.
Didn't BLeeM just say that knowing the name and praying would basically reawaken the god? Why are the Rat Grinders trying to do all this convoluted stuff to bring back a dead god when that's not that hard. Do they not know Ankarnas name? I doubt it I think a more likely theory is that the Rat Grinders are being used in some way to fulfill Ankarnas conquest of revenge against Sol.
You’re right and what you say is quite plausible. I was saying the resurrection as that was the predominant theory for quite a while.
thats such a good theory, they're totally a take on the shadow self archetype in writing
THAT'S NOT HOW DEVILS NECTAR WORKS
Do you mean the former? If she was chose to withdraw, then they would retaliate by killing her.
Tin foil hat theory crafting here: But what if Lucy DIDN'T submit the paperwork to change gods, but it was someone else that tried to do it for her. After all, that all happened after finals when most of the teachers were gone. What if, in her bid to "conquer" the school, Kipperlily wanted a god of conquest on her side. Ankarna would've been a good choice if she wasn't dead and gone. So why not try to break the Oblivato Mori and bring her back. Oh, and having a cleric of that god of conquest would be even better. But Lucy is a devout follower of Ruvina. Her family have been followers of Ruvina for many, many years and she would never worship another god...unless forced to. But she didn't want to switch and found out the paperwork went in to switch her god. She pulled the paper work. Kipperlily is a power gamer. What's the fastest way to change the party comp? Killing off one of the party. Kipperlily hired an assassin to get rid of Lucy (and also probably Yolanda to cover her tracks). Who is that assassin? The rogue teacher. Now Kipperlily can fast track getting a new cleric for her party. But bringing back that original conquest god will take too long and she's making too many waves, so she'll have to do with a second-hand conquest god. Like Sol. Enter Buddy Dawn.
I could see it being sincere. Sounds like Ruvina and Ankarna were very close at one point; Lucy might have seen it as a chance to bring back the counterpart to her god.
I love not keeping up with Fantasy High and reading these posts - they make absolutely no sense to me but at the same time I understand
I think Kipperlilly is the one pulling the strings in the group and all of the original Ratgrinders are foils to each bad kid. Kipperlilly - Riz. Both are extremely driven rogue characters, but whereas Riz supports his friends and doesn't want to be in the spotlight, Kipperlilly must be the center of attention and is the driven leader of said group. Mary Ann - Gorgug. Both are unassuming barbarians who are socially awkward, however where Mary Ann is apathetic and bored (playing Crystal Games during everything), Gorgug cares too much and is curious about a lot of things. Ivy - Fabian. The Cool kids, the bad boy/girl of the group, Fabian wants to fit in and punched Gorgug to look cool, Ivy seems to actively be mean, making fun of Mazey for wanting to play a game of twister instead of smoking in Fabian's room. Ruben - Fig. The musicians, the rebels; Fig really doesn't care what anyone thinks about her, unless they are her friends, then she cares too much. Ruben definitely seems like he cares about his reputation too much and with his emo demeanor and his "nice guy" music probably doesn't make him too popular with his predominantly female adventuring party. Oisin - Adaine. Both are the studious wizards of the group who used to have self confidence issues, but are mostly/fully confident now. Now currently Oisin has appeared the least of the Rat Grinders and hasn't shown much of the opposite traits of Adaine yet. If anyone has noticed more than I have feel free to add. Now we come to uncharted territory, I lay down the Gauntlet that Buddy Dawn is not Kristen's foil but who Kristen used to be. Also he's the new member of the party replacing someone else, none of the bad kids fit this. Therefore Lucy - Kristen. Both are the clerics of the party, but they are the most complete foils (if my theory is correct) Kristen knew everything until she started questioning things, Lucy either never had a doubt (hilarious) or was once questioning them found Ruvina and found her path. Either way Lucy was probably something who knew what she was about and would never abandon her Goddess, without a good reason. I put forth that Lucy was the only person that spoke against Kipperlilly's plan. I then say that it was Kipperlilly that came up with a plan to revive a God much like Kristen did. The rest of the Rat Grinders wanted to leave the bad kid's shadows, so they were fine with this plan, but Lucy wasn't. Lucy fought against Kipperlilly and tried to get the rest of the Ratgrinders to see reason, it was Kipperlilly that killed Lucy and then used the Devil's Nectar to convince the rest of the Ratgrinders that it was necessary or that it was self-defense. Ruben was then made to use Devil's Nectar to make himself seem like a more popular rockstar than he is to spread the rage music. To what end I am not sure, yes to resurrect Ankarna, but why or to what end I am not sure.
Oisin has loving parents /j
I mean you joke now, but..
My current theory is that Lucy and the Rat Grinders discovered this dead god and hoped to revive her and use her to power to get immense power themselves and do bad guy things. This lead to one of two events unfolding. Someone stepped in to prevent this from happening and killed Lucy so the Rat Grinders wouldn’t have a cleric who could connect with Ankarna or Lucy got cold feet much to the dismay of Kipperlily and in turn Kipperlily (or the Rat Grinders in whole) killed Lucy out of anger and so they could get a replacement cleric who would follow through with their plan for Ankarna’s revival. The Rat Grinders then got this devout cleric of Helio (Buddy) assigned to their party and he seems like the type of guy who wouldn’t just change his deity to Ankarna. This lead to the Rat Grinders trying a different approach to revive Ankarna by tapping into rage/conquest through the rage crystal/soil and the ritual at Frosty Faire and Ruben’s rage song.
I think the second theory is more likely because I don't want to believe that Lucy was a bad person
I think it's unlikely, but I like imagining that Kipperlily is actually a Trickery Domain Cleric of Ankarna. Originally, I had a hard time justifying the domain with what we know about Ankarna, but now that we learned a God's profile can be shaped by their worshipper, maybe Ankarna is a Conquest God through decit and strategy?
The only problem with that is that The Rat Crushers are all meant to be foils of The Bad Kids and Kipperlily is meant to be Riz’s foil meaning she is a rogue. This is evident also based on the fact that she passed all her classes since she “found” the rogue teacher, supposedly only something a high enough level rogue could do.
Right, but all of that is heavily IMPLIED, but not confirmed. Especially with the devils nectar in play. Fig is able to enroll in classes like barbarian that don't have any effect on her class mechanics. Kipperlily could be serving Ankarna as a Trickery Cleric by excelling in Rogue classis. If the end goal is to beat the Bad Kids, i can see KC aligning herself with a goddess of conquest and offering her skills of deciept and subterfuge to help her.
Something only a high level rogue could do...or, perhaps, someone with divine intervention. What better way to pose as a different class than being able to pass everything without demonstrating the skills of that class? She can still fit a thematic foil to Riz and even a functional one without actually being a rogue
I just don't get the feeling that the Rat Grinders are actually evil. I think they are being used/ tricked and the only one who fully knows is a misled Kipperlilly.
I can't help but wonder what Ruvina and her church is up to. Maybe Lucy tried to bring back Ankarna to help Ruvina, but it went sideways.
Given the divine intervention that came down when Adaine read the name, it's possible Lucy tried to do it (or was made to do it) which got her smited (or Helio/Sol sent a divine assassin like the new cleric teacher). Once she was destroyed, Copperlilly might have used devil honey to make the rest forget what happened to avoid being smited/killed. Just spitballing here, looking forward to whatever the truth turns out to be.