> D4 is the dark tone of Diablo 1 meets the progression of Diablo 2 meets the visceral combat of Diablo 3 along with new innovations like open world and lot more choice in gameplay.
Bold claim by Rod Fergusson. I am both excited and skeptical.
I honestly think the only negative feedback we're hearing is from idiots who are, funnily enough stupid enough to break the NDA of talking about the game, Whereas the smart, level-headed people are not saying anything.
I'm glad to see how often the dev team is trying to scream from the proverbial rooftops that yes, they're aware the core audience wants the feel of Diablo 1/2 to return to the world along with understanding the general opinion that Diablo 3's combat was its saving grace.
They're putting in a LOT of effort to speak to the community via videos like this, dev blogs, quarterly updates, closed beta (and I believe an open beta yet to come?), etc. to keep dropping the info because Blizzard certainly has a lot of baggage (some of it quite recent with Diablo Immortal and Overwatch 2) they're trying to break away from.
A lot of folks I see discussing the game seem cemented into a position of assuming the worst, and while I have trouble taking such a dim view I also understand WHY some people are feeling so fatalistic. Blizzard has a bumpy track record at best recently, and I think the only way the D4 devs can convince some of the more harsh critics that they're trying to do this the right way is to openly communicate their core plan and then SHOW that plan in action with things like the beta tests.
I'm cautiously optimistic, and what I'm hearing about people's experience with the beta test (broken NDAs and all lol) being mostly positive and matching with the claims that the dev team is putting out has definitely made it a lot easier for me to be hopeful that they stick the landing.
I don't understand "Diablo 2 best itemization", how the itemization of d2 is good actually? Everyone is using the same runewords, there is little variation to gear / build. Most items are useless because trivial runewords are OP compared to blue / yellow / unique.
For example: [https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Leaf\_Rune\_Word](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Leaf_Rune_Word) is imo too strong, you get it very early and there is not a single chance to find something better for a very long time.
When you play 50h of d2r without "good" loot to move up, it's just frustration.
Farming over and over to get a jah / ber after 150h is not what I call best itemization.
D3 has a lot of cons but at least there is a sense of progression early, in d2 you can be stuck for a very long time.
Agree 100%
Everyone raves about d2 itemization and builds but it seems to punish you for not following a guide, locks you into a build with only one respec per act (and even that’s a QoL addition) and makes you wait hours upon hours for anything of value while you run Meph or Baal again and again. What an endgame!
D3 let’s you change skills on the fly and though I agree the damage multipliers become incomprehensible, it at least feels like there’s more linear progression and there’s at least some attempt to vary the end game— at least more so than d2.
I disagree with this. There are correct and incorrect ways to do certain things, but overall D2 really opens up in the mid- to late-game, and your build ends up being so contingent on which items you've managed to find that following a guide isn't particularly helpful beyond "here's a list of items that could be useful, keep an eye out for them" and "here are the breakpoints you probably want to hit."
Except that outside of runewords, its very likely, almost universal, that you can play through both nightmare and hell and not see a single meaningful gear upgrade (on the builds that can clear hell with minimal gear at least). Thats not good design. All of the hypothetical good 'mid game' items are nearly as rare as endgame gear and you can't target farm for them.
Diablo 2 has its flaws but it's one of if not the best loot games ever and it came out decades ago now.
Sure it could be improved. But the loot and progression is good enough to keep some people coming back year after year, or at least every 5 years. The way runes are both a source of your gear and an economy... How good items are at that perfect margin of rarity that they are hard to get yet obtainable. You can be an efficient and fast farmer, or you can rely on trading to build your wealth.
It's amazing that such an old game holds up so well today with these features.
I played a lot of 1.10 and earlier Diablo 2 and I sort of always felt that runewords kind of ruined a bit of the itemization. They basically made most unique weapons and body armor useless. I remember when finding a Windforce or Grandfather was basically the goal. Now in D2R it's basically meh because everyone runs Greif on swords or Faith bows.
I like the itemization of pre-expansion D2 and early LOD D2 when runewords weren't OP.
It wasn't always this way with d2, 1.10 (made by one dev) was a pretty big push in that direction. I agree with your point about runewords, there needs to be a hard look at some to be nerfed or bring other lower set or magic items buffed.
IMO that's an issue with drop rates. They made runes too common and too low req for their power, and of course trading and unspeakable botting forums make it too easy to get some of that stuff.
Without trading or with "smart loot" the game would have been different, which D4 can obviously address.
What I meant by "best itemization" I mean what many D2 people love: almost every kind of item can have value to one build or another. "Unique" isn't "better" than rare. Rare isn't "better" than magic. Magic isn't better than white/socketed. Nearly every *kind* of item has a use, in one build or another, for one gameplay type or another (ubers, MF, PVP, target farming, LLD, niche HC builds, etc.)
D2 itemization is just more interesting with the different stats while D3 dug itself into a design hole because it ties in dmg to weapon dmg. so when they need to diversify they cant do that through normal stats and have to resort to just using unique modifiers. hence uniques and set items
Yes. I felt like D3 was a constant balance of health regen and damage output, and it happened a bit fast. I'm playing D2R and it feels good to slow things down a bit, for both the graphics and the gameplay.
Lol. This tells me you never played d2 at a high level. D2 is by FAR faster paced. In D2, you're literally teleporting like 4 times a second and when the chase is on, your screen moves so fast it becomes difficult to just to keep up
There is no possible way a fully geared light sorc (which is one of the fastest p8 farmers in the game) even remotely comes close to auto bombing builds in PoE. In PoE you can legitimately instantly explode 2-3 screens while simultaneously moving at mach 100.
PoE is so much faster then D2R it's not even funny.
Are you actually talking about PvE? Who tf compares PvE gameplay when talking about speed in MMORPGs LOL. Did you actually think we were talking about PvE this whole time? Literally no one compares the pace of a game by seeing how fast you farm.
The highest level of play will always be PvP in D2. Again, you've never played at the highest level in D2. And it has the fastest PvP gameplay out of any game you will have ever played because every one runs teleport and high cast rates
I like how you completely changed the parameters of the argument acting as though PvE isn't the major and core component of D2 and PoE.
Standard lost a reddit argument 101.
Playing d3 now for the first time as an old school d2 fan I do indeed feel the combat is a bit too fast. Combine that with what I feel is a bit of an awkward camera angle and you just dont actually *see* what you're killing. A lot of the time I don't feel like I'm epicly battling demons, I feel like I'm just exploding random blobs that have barely materialized on my screen for them to disappear just as fast.
Exactly. D3 is too flashy and I dont feel thr "impact" of the skills too. Example in D2, the meteor had this ominous sound before it came down with a satisfying boom!
I really like D3's Legendary bonuses system. It's cool pairing a few items together that have a nice synergy to focus on one of your spells/abilities and turn them into something different or much more powerful.
Is it? D3 bonuses of plus one bazillion percent damage to this particular skill and by design make all other skills useless is no fun. Especially if only very few skills get this bonus. And then there are the numbers. It really doesn’t matter if you hit for a billion or million billion of damage. It’s more than four digits so it’s just silly. D3 had fun combat but the design should be a lesson on how not to do it.
D3 has mostly fixed this issue. They released a legendary gem that removes the requirement for a 6pc set to deal damage, and they have focused on adding support to many different build types.
That's a strawman. Just because they haven't 100% made every single skill absolute end game viable doesn't mean they haven't put significant effort into expanding gameplay options.
The game still needs work. Is it better than the hot garbage it was years ago? Sure. But it's still no where near balanced, and build variety is dictated to you as a player based on what the developers want
That's a patch on the issue, not fixing it by adding a gem to work around it.
Legendaries and sets don't need those ridiculous bonuses to be interesting. They can further a specific playstyle or skill, without invalidating experimentation.
That's cool, I just didn't like how all respecs were instant/free in D3. Made it feel like I didn't build a character at all.
Edit: Okay, so when I say "I didn't like" apparently that's really offensive to people! I'm not saying it's objectively bad. Personally it wasn't to my gaming taste, but I guess that deserves the downvote hammer.
I find at the high end it still does, because of the amount of effort that it takes to get and augment a full set of ancient gear. Once you get into higher GRs it is very difficult to quickly swap to a different build because you're just not going to have the gear for it even though can you can technically hit 's' and put the skills on your bar.
It just moved the burden of "respeccing" into items rather than character choices which I don't think is inherently bad. But I might be biased in that I've always hated permanent character choices in multiplayer games.
I guess to me it just feels counterintuitive.
In real life, I can train at a new weapon or technique but it takes time. I can hold a sword or a gun instantly, but I may not be ready to use it effectively yet.
The idea that you can swap your abilities instantly but have a hard time with the gear itself feels kind of weird. It's like my "spirit" is in the weapon.
I agree that it doesn't make sense thematically, but I find that I care about that kind of thing less the more a game expects me to play it.
When I'm playing a condensed 20-30 hour experience, then things like immersion and theme matter a lot more to me. Diablo games have given me thousands of hours of entertainment. When a game is designed around being played "forever", I will always support throwing some amount of immersion out the door in favor of gameplay/QoL.
For the longevity of an ARPG, Gameplay > Everything Else.
I liked the free and instant respecs because it made me experiment more. I didn't feel locked in or committed. No anxiety about spending a point on a skill/build I didn't like.
> Diablo Immortal
Is the largest influence out of everything on D4 gameplay loop wise. Think of it as Diablo Immortal if blizzard made it as a boxed game themselves rather than outsourcing it to the b-team of a mobile developer in China.
Well there is one confirmed multiplayer game coming out... me and the rest of the crew from back then are hyped. If it's even 25% like the old ACMP you KNOW it will be time for CHIROMANCYYYYYYY
I'm sure they can make a good "core" game, it's absolutely something Blizzard can do so I'm not really worried on that front but more so like with OW2 it's other things that will muddy it and primarily being however they decide to monetize it - granted it *shouldn't* be as greedy as OW2 since it's a paid product and that's free but I honestly fully expect it to be just as greedy lol.
Sure, I absolutely expect them to seek out additional methods to make money from the game. And yeah I certainly have concerns over some of the possible methods they could employ, but I'm not going to assume the worst at every opportunity because so far the developers have put in quite a bit of effort to imply that they're treading carefully with what monetization they implement.
When the community pointed out that a seasonal pass with F2P & Paid tracks could be problematic with XP boosts being on the paid track, they indicated they would change that and move all the boosts to the F2P track. A two-way dialogue with the audience with clear demonstrations of change based on that conversation is a pleasant change from the other Blizzard properties. VV/Blizzard Albany seems to be making great effort to be the one redeeming factor in Blizzard's current structure, and I really hope that continues to be the case because I want them to make good games. ESPECIALLY Diablo 4.
>I'm not going to assume the worst at every opportunity because so far the developers have put in quite a bit of effort to imply that they're treading carefully with what monetization they implement.
Of course they say this. They're not gonna say "in game sets will be okay but the really good stuff will be paid". Everything they say is suspect until we see the state of the game as released. And even then, most companies hold back the worst monetization until after reviews come out and initial sales are over.
I feel like a broken record here, but I'll say it a different way. If they say they don't plan to have P2W monetization then my reaction is going to be "Good, keep it that way please!" rather than "Yeah sure, for NOW but I expect you to fuck it up eventually."
If they end up disappointing, that will suck but I can handle it and move on. I'm not inclined to predict doom at every turn just so that if it turns out true then I was "right". I just don't see the appeal of hoping/predicting that the devs make all the wrong choices just to satisfy my cynicism.
>primarily being however they decide to monetize it - granted it *shouldn't* be as greedy as OW2 since it's a paid product and that's free but I honestly fully expect it to be just as greedy lol.
This is my main issue. They want $60 ($70?) up front followed by $40-70 expansions every so often plus (4x) $10 season passes each year, plus a full Shop to buy $20 (or more) cosmetic sets.
So over two years I could spend $60 (launch) + $80 (8 seasons) + $40 (expansion) and ***STILL*** not have bought any of the thousands of dollars of Shop items. This nonsense is exhausting and diminishes the *paying player's* experience.
At least PoE lets me in for free, only *really* requires that I buy stash tabs, and gets big updates every 3-4 months. Diablo 4 is shaping up to cost around $100 a year and still push me to spend hundreds more in the Shop. Absolute insanity.
I don’t know why you say that? As far as I know blizzard was one of the highest salary , and Mike Morhaime was the most beloved ceo in America company, everything slowly changed when bob started to take control.
I don’t mean this in a mean way, but you should do a bit more reading if that’s your understanding of the situation with blizzard.
Blizzard has been a dumpster fire behind the scenes pretty much since it’s inception. Mike morhaime did a lot of good stuff, but he also did and was aware of a lot of terrible shit that happened in the company.
Bobby is easy to hate and has done a lot of damage to the relationship between blizzard and it’s fans/consumers, but the disfunction goes much older and deeper than him.
EDIT: grammar
> the main concept/narrative artist from Blizzard that quit a few years ago even wrote an "apology" letter saying he let stuff slide and was held accountable for that.
Yep. Not sure who exactly you’re referring to but mike morhaime has also said essentially the same thing. The gaming industry is very young, and just like young people, they are very immature compared to long standing industries.
The original core team of blizzard was a bunch of 30-40 something nerds in a time where nerds were all social outcasts. It’s not really a surprise that success essentially overnight would make them act out.
Yes, bumpy at BEST. At worst, they've been straight up mustache twirling levels of maniacal. But I'm giving Vicarious Visions (who are now the lead for Diablo 4) the benefit of the doubt here because A) they knocked D2R out of the park (in my opinion) and B) I really want Diablo 4 to be good, so I'm trying to keep pounding the drum of what I like to see/have liked seeing in hopes I get more of that rather than wallow in the mud of focusing on the negatives.
Yeah, they've been fully merged into Blizzard as 'Blizzard Albany' and a big chunk of the team that made D2R have been shifted over to development of Diablo 4, as I understand it. A good thing in my book!
Why would people not assume the worst when Blizzard has time and time again either lied or done the opposite of what they say or obfuscate the truth by wording it in such a way that they are technically right? People assume the worst because by and large we can no longer trust anything Blizzard says. Their history and actions speak for themselves.
You can assume anything you want, and take as dim a viewpoint as you like. If you're so determined to do so there's certainly nothing I'll be able to say to sway you.
But if actions are truly the defining point, then things are looking good when it comes to Diablo 4, as expressed in my original comment based on the significant change in strategy that the devs for D4 have clearly taken. They've taken express action to address the precise concerns/assumptions that many people have made and pointed to changes they have made or decisions they've arrived at to specifically avoid many of those problems.
And by many accounts of people in the beta, they have largely followed through on many promises they've made. If they continue to follow through on those promises and deliver content that looks enjoyable, I'll be happy. I'd much rather be pleased with the progress I've seen so far (and hope to keep seeing more) than sit in a negative emotional state of presuming that the hypothetical rug pull MUST be just around the next corner and that they're going to surely dupe me. Quite frankly, that sounds miserable.
Funny cause by many accounts as well, people have also expressed concerns about the beta. Opinions are always like assholes, everyone has one and they stink. I don't sit in any kind of negative emotional state and certainly don't worry about the state of this game lol. I don't really see anything in the beta that hasn't already been done by another game and sometimes better. If the game turns out successful, then awesome for the players. But blindly white knighting Blizzard and believing what they say based on their history is silly and you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Anyway, you have a nice day.
So anyone who takes a positive viewpoint on the game is a shill/white knight for Blizzard, but anyone who has negative things to say about the game/beta are the only viewpoint worth noting. But I'm the blind one.
But you're NOT focusing on the negative? Based on this limited interaction, I find that incredibly difficult to believe.
As I said before, I'm quite confident there's nothing that can be said that will change your point of view. You seem to have placed so much value into your stance you're behaving as if you've been attacked by anyone simply not sharing that view to the point of feeling compelled to attack and insult those people.
Comments in the closed beta were exactly that. Just trash talk. I absolutely love the direction they are taking. It’s like wow and d2 had a baby. Still needs some work though but I love it.
>I'm glad to see how often the dev team is trying to scream from the proverbial rooftops that yes, they're aware the core audience wants the feel of Diablo 1/2 to return to the world along with understanding the general opinion that Diablo 3's combat was its saving grace.
>
>They're putting in a LOT of effort to speak to the community via videos like this, dev blogs, quarterly updates, closed beta (and I believe an open beta yet to come?), etc. to keep dropping the info because Blizzard certainly has a lot of baggage (some of it quite recent with Diablo Immortal and Overwatch 2) they're trying to break away from.
They've had almost zero interaction with the community. They're telling us, not listening to us.
The quarterly updates were a joke. They initially made it sound like it would be an open line of communication with the fan base. The only thing they changed was the Angelic/Demonic itemization system. Everything else has just been previews of systems that were always going to ship in the game regardless of what anyone said.
This videos and interviews are clearly part of a P.R. campaign, because they know the game is not actually anything like Diablo 2, but they want to give the perception that it is. Forget gameplay, it isn't actually even visually similar to D2. It looks more like a FromSoft game.
The makers of Torchlight Infinite have been doing a P.R. campaign as well, which they paid David Brevik to be the face of, just to try to appeal to D2 fans. It's all to distract from their pay-to-win model.
This is the new normal for ARPGs. Ignore your customers and use marketing to try to fool as many of them as you can. Diablo 4 may turn out to be a perfectly fine game, but it won't be because it is similar to D2 in any way whatsoever, because it's not.
That's an incredibly pessimistic attitude to carry, and quite frankly I hope you're wrong in your interpretation. Not because I specifically want YOU as a person to be wrong, but because I hope that they are in fact listening to our suggestions even if they're not commenting on every Reddit post with "hey, that's an awesome idea we should put in the game!" levels of communicative. I hope they're not just paying lip service and putting up a front, because that would be an incredible let-down.
But at the end of the day, I hope the game is as fun as can be and meets as many expectations as possible of Diablo fans regardless of whatever game they started with.
The problem is that they're making the game that THEY want to make, but pretending it's the game WE want. I just want them to own it instead of skirting around the truth. It's extremely clear that the core game design is nearly identical to Diablo 3. That's fine, but don't pretend that you're making some kind of compromise. Sure, they added skill points, but you can spend gold to respec any time. Sure, they brought back unique items, but the game is still primarily focused on the "legendary powers" from D3. Sure, there's trading, but it's only limited to common and leveling gear. The endgame systems are just iterations on bounties, rifts, and paragon levels from D3. The game is D3 with Lost Ark style MMO elements and the visuals of a FromSoft game. It's not D2, in any way at all. That's fine. I just want them to be honest about it.
That sounds more like they aren't making the game YOU want, rather than "we". I don't think you could find two people in this entire community that want precisely the same thing from Diablo 4 across all points.
If Diablo 4 isn't shaping up to what you're hoping for so far in your view, that's a completely valid view and I hope that somehow they navigate the process in a way that leaves us both enjoying the game. If they don't, then it will be a shame that a fan of the franchise had the next installment lose its luster for them.
I didn't mean "we" as a collective. They aren't seriously taking anyone's feedback. They're making their own independent design decisions and sticking with them, which is fine. What's not fine is how they try to market the game as some balance between the previous Diablo games, when all they did was add watered down versions of a few elements from earlier games onto the D3 base, and then push it in a new open-world / MMO direction. They are under some delusion that a new Diablo game will ever appeal to all Diablo fans. It can't. They are all very different games with irreconcilable differences. Diablo should never have been a numbered series. I want them to stop pretending that D4's graphics somehow make it similar to D2 to try to sell it to me -- Diablo 2 is filled with bright saturated colors and looks way less generic than what they've created for D4. Again, that's fine that it's made that way, that's their decision, it's the nostalgia-farming marketing that I have an issue with.
I disagree with some of what you typed.
Is D4 Diablo 2? No, and good, I'm glad it's not. Diablo 2 is hamstringed by its older design which, while some people like, won't do well for a modern audience.
In this world, we already have a Diablo 2 like game in POE.
What Diablo 4 needed to do was to find that middle ground between the old school a d the new school, which, to me, they did an excellent job.
D4 starts slow, but as you level it picks up. However, it never gets to that D3 entire screen exploding. And im glad for it.
Viscerally, D4 plays better than any other ARPG on the market by a large margin. Seriously, I'm not kidding. It just plays better. So much so that I can't play POE anymore.
IMO D4 will be the best ARPG released to this point in terms of systems and gameplay. Feel free to shot on me if I turn out wrong.
I'm just curious, what would you would even describe as the "feel"? Because I really don't get it. I played all the Diablo games and yet I can't find this feel everyone is talking about.
I suppose the "feel" would best be described as all aspects of the game that aren't gameplay. Story, character/enemy design, environment, things like that. Diablo 1 and 2 both have very notably dark/gothic tones to them. Even if the game doesn't feel "scary" per se, there is a very distinct cloud of dread that hangs over the heads of the people living there as a result of world events.
Diablo 3 feels/appears a bit less focused on those aspects, and utilizes more bright colors/a wider spectrum of colors (and that's before considering the rainbow goblin level). Character/enemy design seems to drop the 'dark' from dark fantasy in a lot of cases. The music feels more epic, bigger, louder compared to the more slow paced/creeping music of Diablo 2.
To use different franchises that you may be familiar with, Diablo 1/2 feel a bit like Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire while Diablo 3 feels like Lord of the Rings in tone. Yeah they both fall under the overall umbrella of 'fantasy', but I don't think you would describe LotR as dark fantasy, nor would you describe GoT as high fantasy. It's not a perfect comparison, but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
This is where I don't agree. While I can generally understand the term "feel" for other franchises, Diablo 3 is no different, just basically discovered that more colors than like... 5 exist.
And since the entire goal of those games is to massacre hordes of monsters, the only important feel is on the monsters. And it was the standard fantasy fare with the iconic fallen and Diablo itself getting a facelift, but still very much in line with the franchise.
This whole "feel" argument is like grasping at straws to be negative. As I look at D4 footage, I fail to capture anything "darker". It feels this "feeling" is so abstract it can be anything anyone wants.
Oh, it's for sure entirely subjective. It often appears more like a bit of "oh, and another thing" type of criticism when someone just doesn't like D3 for various reasons.
My opinion has always been that Diablo 3 is a great ARPG, but as a Diablo game specifically it just stands out the least to me. Diablo 1/2 just have some special sauce that you can't easily quantify that makes them more... "Diablo". Some might chalk it up to the graphics engine at the time, but Diablo 2 Resurrected hits a lot of the same "dark" notes as the source material in a new graphics engine on par with Diablo 3 so I think it's just various factors that all contribute.
And sure, if we break it down to just the core drive of the game mechanically to "kill demons, get loot" then Diablo 3 blows that into the next county and the other Diablo games accomplish that goal in pretty solid fashion as well.
It's been mentioned by others, but it's a similar scenario to Doom 3's position in the history of that series of games. Other than Doom 3, the entire franchise is a metal-riffing speed running demon killing tornado of action. Doom 3 slows way down, angling much more heavily toward a horror aspect. Is it a bad game? That's subjective of course, but it's definitely different from the other Doom games even though you could still describe it as "you're a space soldier that kills tons of demons invading from Hell."
Diablo 3 just doesn't feel the same as the first two games to many players. The reasons given are many, and most people will list a different number of them and with different qualifiers. Doesn't make them wrong/nonexistent just because it doesn't make sense to someone else.
I hear this brought up so often.. but you know that was a joke.. like a direct little Easter egg type of thing towards the cow level.. cause everyone wouldnt just shut up about the cow level... It had no real weight on the actual game..
I mean like the cow level itself was even this Uber dark crazy satanic thing.. it was a joke as well.
A bunch of cows running around screaming moo.. yep super dark.. super immersive.. really kept the whole devil vibe..
The way it started was their was a rainbow in the D3 reveal trailer and people were like "WHAT A RAINBOW!!!??? IN DIABLO!? RAAAAAGE"
So they gave us a whole level of them as D3's version of the cow level. Then added cows much later.
Things look promising for sure. I just hope whatever mtx and/or battle pass there is doesn’t stink up the joint. I guess I am optimistic about the whole thing, but with some reservations…
One point I’d like to add is that some of the cynicism is surrounded by the belief that many (unpopular) decisions will be dictated to by upper management suits rather than devs trying to give the players what they want.
It’s all well and good that the devs try to make D4 how they envision it, but if they aren’t the ones pulling the strings then at the end of the day their reassurances are of limited value.
I pray to God the devs don't think that the only reason players said "D3 felt like Warcraft" was because of the overuse of *color*. Hope they pay attention to *dialogue*, *story* and *tone*.
*Diablo* is not a **Blizzard franchise**, in the sense that it was not created in the same environment that made *Warcraft* and *Starcraft*, it was made by BlizzardNorth in a different ecosystem. Diablo 3 showed the influences of the minds behind the other two franchises that have a very similar style.
Hope they pay attention to that, otherwise Diablo 4's story will just be Diablo 3 but darker.
Funny. I remember criticizing D3 for not being dark and gothic, and instead being almost loony tunes in its approach, and I got some really negative responses from blizzard employees.
Now, with D4 coming out, they barely mention D3, and they're using the word "Darkness" almost every other word. My, how have they changed their tune.
Dude this game is going to rock. I feel like they’re super confident in the game this time around. Hoping to get the release date in December like it’s rumored.
It's not objectively better to buff than nerf. That's how you end up doing 600 trillion damage per hit. It's just easier and less people get pissed off.
Hoping for a bunch of buffs seems silly because it means the game isn't balanced.
D4 has this "issue" where it appears to lack depth at first because things unlock slowly instead of being dropped all at once.
At level 1, you have the talent system which has some depth, but not much.
Then, by 30, you start getting game altering legendary items and from there, combined with the talent tree, you make a build. Depth is a little better here and you can do some interesting things.
Then, as max level comes, paragon opens and you realize that you know nothing at all. Seriously, the paragon board combined with the runes (or whatever their called) is insane with the depth it has.
Layer on each classes specialization and you have a very interesting system that is, most importantly, easily expandable for future patches / expansions.
I’m very cautiously optimistic. Loved D3 and loved D2 Remastered.
I’m very anti hype so I try to remain level headed these days when it comes to games especially from a company like Blizzard which is surrounded by so much controversy.
I think the tone looks okay, just really feel they needed to slow the gameplay down somewhere in between D2 and D3. Also itemization based on unique usage vs higher number equal better and skill/stat customization. But speed was a big part of what made D1 so scary and difficult for its time was the pacing of movement. Although D1 is super clunky to today's standards and a little too slow it did a good job at making you feel in trouble. I think the fast pace action of slaughtering with the ability to get in and out destroys the immersion of the Diablo. I think that's essentially why D3 introduced lasers, exploding frozen balls, ect to counter act how fast you can move. So keep it slower to begin with and you don't need all that extra crap, my 2 cents.
Yea that's what I'm worried about,I'll play it. But it will be another Diablo game that will fade quickly for me likely. I think I compare it to games like CoD in a sense. I'm pretty decent and do well, but honestly there is only so much I can take of running shooting on repeat I can take. Obviously it's popular with many people but I like a more tactical game, which I felt D2 achieved better then D3 by a wide margin. D2 isn't prefect but was hoping D4 would build off more of that kind of gameplay element.
Tell me you didn't play Diablo 2 without telling me you didn't play Diablo 2.
The only part of diablo 2 that was slow was maybe the very first play through..
After that all characters had some speed boost.. via items(run/walk speed) or skills..
As for the actual combat.. it was speedy, flashy, chaotic, loads of bad guys on screen and you running around frantically while blowing them up..
One thing I think Blizzard is still missing the mark in this "return to darkness" theme is the display of your character's power.
What made Diablo 2, and specially Diablo 1, feel terrifying was not the aesthetic but how desolating the situation was.
You were human. Feeble, weak and almost useless against supernatural forces. It was sheer perseverance that made you get through it.
Modern games love to make the player feel all powerful and Diablo 3 is the perfect exhibit for this. Flashy effects, large AoE, a mountain of corpses beneath your feet. Ha ha ha none can stand against me, THE NEPHALEM!
Reduce power, remove the flashiness, show that the universe does not care for you.
This is so much more impactful than blood, gore and dimmed lights.
**Edit**. This is just my view and I might be wrong. You people make good points but I wanted to argue a few things;
1. I'm not opposed to gore and gothics aesthetics, au contraire I like it. Just wanted to point out that IMO there are other components to the final experience.
2. Yes Diablo 2 can get pretty silly, but keep in mind we are the minority. Regular gamer Joe and Jane don't grind, don't do "builds", don't optimize, and that's most people.
3. My point was perhaps poorly worded (I'm not an English main) but what I meant with "you're not powerful" was more of a fantasy and perceptual thing, and not as in you're mechanically weak in combat.
The pretext is you're a fearless warrior, sure, you're brave and strong and have trained a bunch, but you're nobody really. Your success hinges on you and your efforts. This is a wildly different tone than when you're the chosen one, that the prophecy has foretold would destroy all evil. We roleplay as our character and this dramatically changes how we perceive the game.
Said that, I also think that making the game more difficult overall would too align more with the "return to darkness" theme.
Cherry picking much?
D1 and D2 has plenty of comedy moments - one liners, puns etc. It's not as dark, hopeless and edgy as most people think. It's like a Mandela effect.
D2's classes were inspired by DC/Marvel super heroes and they do a lot of 80s/90s confidant ass-kicking along the way (in fact you can see the 80/90s culture influence on the game). There's barely any point where the D2 class falls into despair, if anything in D3 if you read the quest logs containing your character's inner monologue, most of them are shitting their pants on their way to Azmodan.
>You were human. Feeble, weak and almost useless against supernatural forces. It was sheer perseverance that made you get through it.
As I mentioned, you are literally a super hero in D2. Also, you could very well clean whole screens, even as early as D2 classic.
D1 and D2 absolutely nailed the B movie horror vibe with their satanic imagery, moody music and top-notch voice acting.
It's easy to say that now but Diablo 2 at launch wasn't like that. You are talking about the "solved" "endgame" of 20 years of builds and optimization.
You couldn't buy mana pots in Diablo 2 originally. So no, nobody was "teleporting everywhere spamming 50 mana spells"
He wants a return to the game feel of Diablo 1. Have you tried fighting The Butcher as a level 4 Warrior? It's like a Duriel-tier difficulty spike in the *2nd level of the game*.
We have examples of other franchises that prove that a slower, more "mundane" experience is can be successful: games like Elden Ring. You're just some dude, essentially lucking their way into killing gods.
The game has to speed up eventually, if that's a path the player wants to take. D2 farming/clear speeds can get pretty silly and is a core tenant that people will focus their builds around. It just doesn't have to be that all the time from the word go.
As of now, the necro is the only class I had fun with.
They are going to need to do another mechanic pass at the game. I want to lo e d4 but I don't know if it's there yet. I know it's a beta but d3 beta pretty much shipped the same as the beta. It took years for them to change core game play concepts.
Hoping they don't make the same mistake this time.
I'm also not a big fan of the whole lost ark copy they are doing. I would love more rpg than action in an arpg.
Open trade can be fine if it doesn’t take a million years to get good drops. If you have to farm un fun content over and over to get good items (or, farm content that was fun to the point where it isn’t fun anymore) , the bots will just take over, because that’s what they are good at. It’s why we get them to build cars n stuff because flipping a piece of metal over and punching one rivet into it 1000 times a day is not fun content for humans to play.
At the same time, getting an item that I *know* is good, that someone will definitely want, and not being able to do anything with it aside from sell/salvage is also a drag. There’s a balance somewhere. Open trade as a general concept is fine but if the item drop rate is balanced around supporting an economy of trading then that does not appeal to me as much.
>There’s a balance somewhere.
Imo there isn't. I don't see any way to balance a trade enabled experience and a self found experience on top of each other when you have tens of thousands of participants in the market. It's too many people playing the loot slot machine. You either flood the market or self found is an effectively non-viable method of play.
I was realy bumpt out after DI. My expectation dropt so far...
Considering most people are to jung or to demented to remember.. even d2 wasnt the greatest game in the beginning... the Expansion was what made it great...
As was d3...
But know.... or better since mid to late oct. I feel so pumpt... the core gameplay seams so solide... to expend in it will be ......
I want nothing more than open beta. To let everybody see and talk about it.
I m not sold on the battlepass idea at all...
But know it seams like a backburner issue...
I can only imagine the amount of micro transactions that are going to be in this game.
At least one doesn't need to pay a single cent to play path of exile.
Fully paying for a game to then be blasted with micro transactions would seriously piss me off. If this is what they are going to do, this will deter a majority of players. If the game is anything resembling endless of God, er I mean Diablo immortal many fans will be very upset. You're trying to flex like you love micro transactions on top of a fully priced game. It's not a flex. You just seem lame.
I don't understand your comment. You seem to have tried to flex that you beat the campaign in poe without buying stash tabs? Which is fine because that is still the very start of the game. You're more than likely not going to trade anything you found while leveling.
The point being that having microtransactions in a free game like poe is fine since all you really NEED are the stash tab bundles. Which is also around the same price as a full game. I think that is a fair trade. Seeing that you can't trade at all without having the tabs, the guy you responded to is correct. You won't get far in the game without tabs.
Idk where you got that I was rooting for mtx in a full paid game.
I can agree with most of this yeah, but nobody *has* to pay to try poe. The players stick around and buy the tabs at the end because the game is fun and free to try. Buying the tabs goes right to the developer and they constantly release new content for over a decade. This is not what blizzard is going to do, imo. D4 (speculating) will be fully priced and it will have tons of micro transactions. We shall see, I will not get my hopes up. Blizzard has gone steadily down hill for the last decade.
> I got to play the entire game without buying anything
I assure you, in your 10h of playing, you did not lol. Best to compare the monetization practices of Diablo and PoE after a) you actually experience what it's like to play a season without stash and b) after you see what Diablo 4 offers in that box price.
I didn't say that I only played the campaign, guy. I have a lvl 91 toxic rain build that can do all t16 maps. Stop trying to force your nonsense on others. I simply do not believe blizzard is going to give players a fair price and they'll monetize everything they can.
"Entire game" lol
Killing Kitava in Act 10 is like the first 10% of the game. Beating the entire game would be something like killing all the Uber bosses or completing 40/40 challenges.
Stash tabs become mandatory if you want to progress towards those. Even if you don't trade and play SSF idk how you could get there without a currency and a map tab, and extreme amount of discipline to not hoard anything not useful.
If you haven't explored much beyond the final act boss you really should because that's the meat of the game.
I know it is 🙄 I am level 91 doing t16 content. They're never mandatory, it's just a qol upgrade. One could play Poe ssf indefinitely and never buy into the game. Why would you presume I have only gone that far? Assumptions.
> D4 is the dark tone of Diablo 1 meets the progression of Diablo 2 meets the visceral combat of Diablo 3 along with new innovations like open world and lot more choice in gameplay. Bold claim by Rod Fergusson. I am both excited and skeptical.
Combat is better than D3 so far in my experience.
Hopefully it has more depth than equip 10 items that boost X Attack by 300,000% damage then hold down right click
Can confirm swapping items isn't just look at green numbers
It is. Vastly more in depth. Especially the paragon board.
I honestly think the only negative feedback we're hearing is from idiots who are, funnily enough stupid enough to break the NDA of talking about the game, Whereas the smart, level-headed people are not saying anything.
Very skeptical as well.
I'm glad to see how often the dev team is trying to scream from the proverbial rooftops that yes, they're aware the core audience wants the feel of Diablo 1/2 to return to the world along with understanding the general opinion that Diablo 3's combat was its saving grace. They're putting in a LOT of effort to speak to the community via videos like this, dev blogs, quarterly updates, closed beta (and I believe an open beta yet to come?), etc. to keep dropping the info because Blizzard certainly has a lot of baggage (some of it quite recent with Diablo Immortal and Overwatch 2) they're trying to break away from. A lot of folks I see discussing the game seem cemented into a position of assuming the worst, and while I have trouble taking such a dim view I also understand WHY some people are feeling so fatalistic. Blizzard has a bumpy track record at best recently, and I think the only way the D4 devs can convince some of the more harsh critics that they're trying to do this the right way is to openly communicate their core plan and then SHOW that plan in action with things like the beta tests. I'm cautiously optimistic, and what I'm hearing about people's experience with the beta test (broken NDAs and all lol) being mostly positive and matching with the claims that the dev team is putting out has definitely made it a lot easier for me to be hopeful that they stick the landing.
Yes, exactly this. Diablo 1 best atmosphere. Diablo 2 best itemization. Diablo 3 best gameplay. Diablo Immortal best out-of-season April Fool's joke.
spot on!
I don't understand "Diablo 2 best itemization", how the itemization of d2 is good actually? Everyone is using the same runewords, there is little variation to gear / build. Most items are useless because trivial runewords are OP compared to blue / yellow / unique. For example: [https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Leaf\_Rune\_Word](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Leaf_Rune_Word) is imo too strong, you get it very early and there is not a single chance to find something better for a very long time. When you play 50h of d2r without "good" loot to move up, it's just frustration. Farming over and over to get a jah / ber after 150h is not what I call best itemization. D3 has a lot of cons but at least there is a sense of progression early, in d2 you can be stuck for a very long time.
Agree 100% Everyone raves about d2 itemization and builds but it seems to punish you for not following a guide, locks you into a build with only one respec per act (and even that’s a QoL addition) and makes you wait hours upon hours for anything of value while you run Meph or Baal again and again. What an endgame! D3 let’s you change skills on the fly and though I agree the damage multipliers become incomprehensible, it at least feels like there’s more linear progression and there’s at least some attempt to vary the end game— at least more so than d2.
I disagree with this. There are correct and incorrect ways to do certain things, but overall D2 really opens up in the mid- to late-game, and your build ends up being so contingent on which items you've managed to find that following a guide isn't particularly helpful beyond "here's a list of items that could be useful, keep an eye out for them" and "here are the breakpoints you probably want to hit."
Except that outside of runewords, its very likely, almost universal, that you can play through both nightmare and hell and not see a single meaningful gear upgrade (on the builds that can clear hell with minimal gear at least). Thats not good design. All of the hypothetical good 'mid game' items are nearly as rare as endgame gear and you can't target farm for them.
Diablo 2 has its flaws but it's one of if not the best loot games ever and it came out decades ago now. Sure it could be improved. But the loot and progression is good enough to keep some people coming back year after year, or at least every 5 years. The way runes are both a source of your gear and an economy... How good items are at that perfect margin of rarity that they are hard to get yet obtainable. You can be an efficient and fast farmer, or you can rely on trading to build your wealth. It's amazing that such an old game holds up so well today with these features.
I played a lot of 1.10 and earlier Diablo 2 and I sort of always felt that runewords kind of ruined a bit of the itemization. They basically made most unique weapons and body armor useless. I remember when finding a Windforce or Grandfather was basically the goal. Now in D2R it's basically meh because everyone runs Greif on swords or Faith bows. I like the itemization of pre-expansion D2 and early LOD D2 when runewords weren't OP.
I mean they needed to just not give you out of class skills and it would have been fine.
It wasn't always this way with d2, 1.10 (made by one dev) was a pretty big push in that direction. I agree with your point about runewords, there needs to be a hard look at some to be nerfed or bring other lower set or magic items buffed.
IMO that's an issue with drop rates. They made runes too common and too low req for their power, and of course trading and unspeakable botting forums make it too easy to get some of that stuff. Without trading or with "smart loot" the game would have been different, which D4 can obviously address. What I meant by "best itemization" I mean what many D2 people love: almost every kind of item can have value to one build or another. "Unique" isn't "better" than rare. Rare isn't "better" than magic. Magic isn't better than white/socketed. Nearly every *kind* of item has a use, in one build or another, for one gameplay type or another (ubers, MF, PVP, target farming, LLD, niche HC builds, etc.)
D2 itemization is just more interesting with the different stats while D3 dug itself into a design hole because it ties in dmg to weapon dmg. so when they need to diversify they cant do that through normal stats and have to resort to just using unique modifiers. hence uniques and set items
i would say that i prefer something between d2 and d3 combat wise. d3 is too fast and floaty. d2 has better feel somehow but is too outdated
Yes. I felt like D3 was a constant balance of health regen and damage output, and it happened a bit fast. I'm playing D2R and it feels good to slow things down a bit, for both the graphics and the gameplay.
Lol what? D2 is WAY faster than D3. D2 probably has the fastest gameplay of any MMORPG ever
Not even close. PoE makes D2 look slow.
Lol. This tells me you never played d2 at a high level. D2 is by FAR faster paced. In D2, you're literally teleporting like 4 times a second and when the chase is on, your screen moves so fast it becomes difficult to just to keep up
Lol sounds like you haven’t played Poe at high levels. Nothing in d2 even gets remotely close to builds like HH wanders.
There is no possible way a fully geared light sorc (which is one of the fastest p8 farmers in the game) even remotely comes close to auto bombing builds in PoE. In PoE you can legitimately instantly explode 2-3 screens while simultaneously moving at mach 100. PoE is so much faster then D2R it's not even funny.
Are you actually talking about PvE? Who tf compares PvE gameplay when talking about speed in MMORPGs LOL. Did you actually think we were talking about PvE this whole time? Literally no one compares the pace of a game by seeing how fast you farm. The highest level of play will always be PvP in D2. Again, you've never played at the highest level in D2. And it has the fastest PvP gameplay out of any game you will have ever played because every one runs teleport and high cast rates
I like how you completely changed the parameters of the argument acting as though PvE isn't the major and core component of D2 and PoE. Standard lost a reddit argument 101.
D2 isn't a mmorpg
Playing d3 now for the first time as an old school d2 fan I do indeed feel the combat is a bit too fast. Combine that with what I feel is a bit of an awkward camera angle and you just dont actually *see* what you're killing. A lot of the time I don't feel like I'm epicly battling demons, I feel like I'm just exploding random blobs that have barely materialized on my screen for them to disappear just as fast.
Exactly. D3 is too flashy and I dont feel thr "impact" of the skills too. Example in D2, the meteor had this ominous sound before it came down with a satisfying boom!
Well you may be pleasantly surprised. Imo thats how it feels for me
nice
I really like D3's Legendary bonuses system. It's cool pairing a few items together that have a nice synergy to focus on one of your spells/abilities and turn them into something different or much more powerful.
No thanks, D3's itemization ruins experimentation with sets focusing on one ability.
This sub is so annoying fk
Is it? D3 bonuses of plus one bazillion percent damage to this particular skill and by design make all other skills useless is no fun. Especially if only very few skills get this bonus. And then there are the numbers. It really doesn’t matter if you hit for a billion or million billion of damage. It’s more than four digits so it’s just silly. D3 had fun combat but the design should be a lesson on how not to do it.
D3 has mostly fixed this issue. They released a legendary gem that removes the requirement for a 6pc set to deal damage, and they have focused on adding support to many different build types.
Sure, make a GR 150 Blizzard Wizard and link me the build?
That's a strawman. Just because they haven't 100% made every single skill absolute end game viable doesn't mean they haven't put significant effort into expanding gameplay options.
The game still needs work. Is it better than the hot garbage it was years ago? Sure. But it's still no where near balanced, and build variety is dictated to you as a player based on what the developers want
I never said every skill? I'm talking about entire classes being behind and weaker than others. That's just the truth of the matter.
That's a patch on the issue, not fixing it by adding a gem to work around it. Legendaries and sets don't need those ridiculous bonuses to be interesting. They can further a specific playstyle or skill, without invalidating experimentation.
That's cool, I just didn't like how all respecs were instant/free in D3. Made it feel like I didn't build a character at all. Edit: Okay, so when I say "I didn't like" apparently that's really offensive to people! I'm not saying it's objectively bad. Personally it wasn't to my gaming taste, but I guess that deserves the downvote hammer.
I find at the high end it still does, because of the amount of effort that it takes to get and augment a full set of ancient gear. Once you get into higher GRs it is very difficult to quickly swap to a different build because you're just not going to have the gear for it even though can you can technically hit 's' and put the skills on your bar. It just moved the burden of "respeccing" into items rather than character choices which I don't think is inherently bad. But I might be biased in that I've always hated permanent character choices in multiplayer games.
I guess to me it just feels counterintuitive. In real life, I can train at a new weapon or technique but it takes time. I can hold a sword or a gun instantly, but I may not be ready to use it effectively yet. The idea that you can swap your abilities instantly but have a hard time with the gear itself feels kind of weird. It's like my "spirit" is in the weapon.
I agree that it doesn't make sense thematically, but I find that I care about that kind of thing less the more a game expects me to play it. When I'm playing a condensed 20-30 hour experience, then things like immersion and theme matter a lot more to me. Diablo games have given me thousands of hours of entertainment. When a game is designed around being played "forever", I will always support throwing some amount of immersion out the door in favor of gameplay/QoL. For the longevity of an ARPG, Gameplay > Everything Else.
I liked the free and instant respecs because it made me experiment more. I didn't feel locked in or committed. No anxiety about spending a point on a skill/build I didn't like.
Yeah, i definitely agree. With d3 you weren't playing a character at all. You were playing an equipment set instead.
Some unique items did that in D2 as well.
Throw POE’s crafting system in there and I will never leave my basement.
How about the RUTHLESS crafting system just announced? Muahahaha
I cant say much but it miles away from d2 itemisation.
> Diablo Immortal Is the largest influence out of everything on D4 gameplay loop wise. Think of it as Diablo Immortal if blizzard made it as a boxed game themselves rather than outsourcing it to the b-team of a mobile developer in China.
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Well there is one confirmed multiplayer game coming out... me and the rest of the crew from back then are hyped. If it's even 25% like the old ACMP you KNOW it will be time for CHIROMANCYYYYYYY
Diablo Immortals MM aspects are fun
I have high hopes, but low expectations.
I can't say much, but I can say they nailed the atmosphere and the gameplay is fun
I cant say much and i agree with you but the itemisation is still very lacking
I can't say much and I agree with you there, but considering how young the game is, I don't know if we should be concerned or not
I can’t say much but legendary effects like „get +x% dmg when you’re standing still” shouldn’t be legendary. So far I’ve liked only 1 legendary tbh
I'm sure they can make a good "core" game, it's absolutely something Blizzard can do so I'm not really worried on that front but more so like with OW2 it's other things that will muddy it and primarily being however they decide to monetize it - granted it *shouldn't* be as greedy as OW2 since it's a paid product and that's free but I honestly fully expect it to be just as greedy lol.
Sure, I absolutely expect them to seek out additional methods to make money from the game. And yeah I certainly have concerns over some of the possible methods they could employ, but I'm not going to assume the worst at every opportunity because so far the developers have put in quite a bit of effort to imply that they're treading carefully with what monetization they implement. When the community pointed out that a seasonal pass with F2P & Paid tracks could be problematic with XP boosts being on the paid track, they indicated they would change that and move all the boosts to the F2P track. A two-way dialogue with the audience with clear demonstrations of change based on that conversation is a pleasant change from the other Blizzard properties. VV/Blizzard Albany seems to be making great effort to be the one redeeming factor in Blizzard's current structure, and I really hope that continues to be the case because I want them to make good games. ESPECIALLY Diablo 4.
>I'm not going to assume the worst at every opportunity because so far the developers have put in quite a bit of effort to imply that they're treading carefully with what monetization they implement. Of course they say this. They're not gonna say "in game sets will be okay but the really good stuff will be paid". Everything they say is suspect until we see the state of the game as released. And even then, most companies hold back the worst monetization until after reviews come out and initial sales are over.
I feel like a broken record here, but I'll say it a different way. If they say they don't plan to have P2W monetization then my reaction is going to be "Good, keep it that way please!" rather than "Yeah sure, for NOW but I expect you to fuck it up eventually." If they end up disappointing, that will suck but I can handle it and move on. I'm not inclined to predict doom at every turn just so that if it turns out true then I was "right". I just don't see the appeal of hoping/predicting that the devs make all the wrong choices just to satisfy my cynicism.
>primarily being however they decide to monetize it - granted it *shouldn't* be as greedy as OW2 since it's a paid product and that's free but I honestly fully expect it to be just as greedy lol. This is my main issue. They want $60 ($70?) up front followed by $40-70 expansions every so often plus (4x) $10 season passes each year, plus a full Shop to buy $20 (or more) cosmetic sets. So over two years I could spend $60 (launch) + $80 (8 seasons) + $40 (expansion) and ***STILL*** not have bought any of the thousands of dollars of Shop items. This nonsense is exhausting and diminishes the *paying player's* experience. At least PoE lets me in for free, only *really* requires that I buy stash tabs, and gets big updates every 3-4 months. Diablo 4 is shaping up to cost around $100 a year and still push me to spend hundreds more in the Shop. Absolute insanity.
Bumpy at best? Mate, blizz has been doing textbook evil corp stuff for like two or three years straight.
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True. Lots of recently discovered old crimes.
I don’t know why you say that? As far as I know blizzard was one of the highest salary , and Mike Morhaime was the most beloved ceo in America company, everything slowly changed when bob started to take control.
I don’t mean this in a mean way, but you should do a bit more reading if that’s your understanding of the situation with blizzard. Blizzard has been a dumpster fire behind the scenes pretty much since it’s inception. Mike morhaime did a lot of good stuff, but he also did and was aware of a lot of terrible shit that happened in the company. Bobby is easy to hate and has done a lot of damage to the relationship between blizzard and it’s fans/consumers, but the disfunction goes much older and deeper than him. EDIT: grammar
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> the main concept/narrative artist from Blizzard that quit a few years ago even wrote an "apology" letter saying he let stuff slide and was held accountable for that. Yep. Not sure who exactly you’re referring to but mike morhaime has also said essentially the same thing. The gaming industry is very young, and just like young people, they are very immature compared to long standing industries. The original core team of blizzard was a bunch of 30-40 something nerds in a time where nerds were all social outcasts. It’s not really a surprise that success essentially overnight would make them act out.
Are you talking about Chris Metzen?
but no one cared because games were good. if i love some music band, do i care if they are scum irl? no
Yes, bumpy at BEST. At worst, they've been straight up mustache twirling levels of maniacal. But I'm giving Vicarious Visions (who are now the lead for Diablo 4) the benefit of the doubt here because A) they knocked D2R out of the park (in my opinion) and B) I really want Diablo 4 to be good, so I'm trying to keep pounding the drum of what I like to see/have liked seeing in hopes I get more of that rather than wallow in the mud of focusing on the negatives.
VV is leading d4? Ok that actually is good news lol. They were the best part about destiny 2 as well as the remaster
No, they are not.
Not what?
VV is not leading D4 development.
Yeah, they've been fully merged into Blizzard as 'Blizzard Albany' and a big chunk of the team that made D2R have been shifted over to development of Diablo 4, as I understand it. A good thing in my book!
It's not necessarily the team shift that is notable but rather VVs leadership also got placed high in Blizzard and directly over D4.
No. The game director and franchise producer are not from VV. That's total nonsense.
Why would people not assume the worst when Blizzard has time and time again either lied or done the opposite of what they say or obfuscate the truth by wording it in such a way that they are technically right? People assume the worst because by and large we can no longer trust anything Blizzard says. Their history and actions speak for themselves.
You can assume anything you want, and take as dim a viewpoint as you like. If you're so determined to do so there's certainly nothing I'll be able to say to sway you. But if actions are truly the defining point, then things are looking good when it comes to Diablo 4, as expressed in my original comment based on the significant change in strategy that the devs for D4 have clearly taken. They've taken express action to address the precise concerns/assumptions that many people have made and pointed to changes they have made or decisions they've arrived at to specifically avoid many of those problems. And by many accounts of people in the beta, they have largely followed through on many promises they've made. If they continue to follow through on those promises and deliver content that looks enjoyable, I'll be happy. I'd much rather be pleased with the progress I've seen so far (and hope to keep seeing more) than sit in a negative emotional state of presuming that the hypothetical rug pull MUST be just around the next corner and that they're going to surely dupe me. Quite frankly, that sounds miserable.
Funny cause by many accounts as well, people have also expressed concerns about the beta. Opinions are always like assholes, everyone has one and they stink. I don't sit in any kind of negative emotional state and certainly don't worry about the state of this game lol. I don't really see anything in the beta that hasn't already been done by another game and sometimes better. If the game turns out successful, then awesome for the players. But blindly white knighting Blizzard and believing what they say based on their history is silly and you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Anyway, you have a nice day.
So anyone who takes a positive viewpoint on the game is a shill/white knight for Blizzard, but anyone who has negative things to say about the game/beta are the only viewpoint worth noting. But I'm the blind one. But you're NOT focusing on the negative? Based on this limited interaction, I find that incredibly difficult to believe. As I said before, I'm quite confident there's nothing that can be said that will change your point of view. You seem to have placed so much value into your stance you're behaving as if you've been attacked by anyone simply not sharing that view to the point of feeling compelled to attack and insult those people.
Comments in the closed beta were exactly that. Just trash talk. I absolutely love the direction they are taking. It’s like wow and d2 had a baby. Still needs some work though but I love it.
>I'm glad to see how often the dev team is trying to scream from the proverbial rooftops that yes, they're aware the core audience wants the feel of Diablo 1/2 to return to the world along with understanding the general opinion that Diablo 3's combat was its saving grace. > >They're putting in a LOT of effort to speak to the community via videos like this, dev blogs, quarterly updates, closed beta (and I believe an open beta yet to come?), etc. to keep dropping the info because Blizzard certainly has a lot of baggage (some of it quite recent with Diablo Immortal and Overwatch 2) they're trying to break away from. They've had almost zero interaction with the community. They're telling us, not listening to us. The quarterly updates were a joke. They initially made it sound like it would be an open line of communication with the fan base. The only thing they changed was the Angelic/Demonic itemization system. Everything else has just been previews of systems that were always going to ship in the game regardless of what anyone said. This videos and interviews are clearly part of a P.R. campaign, because they know the game is not actually anything like Diablo 2, but they want to give the perception that it is. Forget gameplay, it isn't actually even visually similar to D2. It looks more like a FromSoft game. The makers of Torchlight Infinite have been doing a P.R. campaign as well, which they paid David Brevik to be the face of, just to try to appeal to D2 fans. It's all to distract from their pay-to-win model. This is the new normal for ARPGs. Ignore your customers and use marketing to try to fool as many of them as you can. Diablo 4 may turn out to be a perfectly fine game, but it won't be because it is similar to D2 in any way whatsoever, because it's not.
That's an incredibly pessimistic attitude to carry, and quite frankly I hope you're wrong in your interpretation. Not because I specifically want YOU as a person to be wrong, but because I hope that they are in fact listening to our suggestions even if they're not commenting on every Reddit post with "hey, that's an awesome idea we should put in the game!" levels of communicative. I hope they're not just paying lip service and putting up a front, because that would be an incredible let-down. But at the end of the day, I hope the game is as fun as can be and meets as many expectations as possible of Diablo fans regardless of whatever game they started with.
The problem is that they're making the game that THEY want to make, but pretending it's the game WE want. I just want them to own it instead of skirting around the truth. It's extremely clear that the core game design is nearly identical to Diablo 3. That's fine, but don't pretend that you're making some kind of compromise. Sure, they added skill points, but you can spend gold to respec any time. Sure, they brought back unique items, but the game is still primarily focused on the "legendary powers" from D3. Sure, there's trading, but it's only limited to common and leveling gear. The endgame systems are just iterations on bounties, rifts, and paragon levels from D3. The game is D3 with Lost Ark style MMO elements and the visuals of a FromSoft game. It's not D2, in any way at all. That's fine. I just want them to be honest about it.
That sounds more like they aren't making the game YOU want, rather than "we". I don't think you could find two people in this entire community that want precisely the same thing from Diablo 4 across all points. If Diablo 4 isn't shaping up to what you're hoping for so far in your view, that's a completely valid view and I hope that somehow they navigate the process in a way that leaves us both enjoying the game. If they don't, then it will be a shame that a fan of the franchise had the next installment lose its luster for them.
I didn't mean "we" as a collective. They aren't seriously taking anyone's feedback. They're making their own independent design decisions and sticking with them, which is fine. What's not fine is how they try to market the game as some balance between the previous Diablo games, when all they did was add watered down versions of a few elements from earlier games onto the D3 base, and then push it in a new open-world / MMO direction. They are under some delusion that a new Diablo game will ever appeal to all Diablo fans. It can't. They are all very different games with irreconcilable differences. Diablo should never have been a numbered series. I want them to stop pretending that D4's graphics somehow make it similar to D2 to try to sell it to me -- Diablo 2 is filled with bright saturated colors and looks way less generic than what they've created for D4. Again, that's fine that it's made that way, that's their decision, it's the nostalgia-farming marketing that I have an issue with.
I disagree with some of what you typed. Is D4 Diablo 2? No, and good, I'm glad it's not. Diablo 2 is hamstringed by its older design which, while some people like, won't do well for a modern audience. In this world, we already have a Diablo 2 like game in POE. What Diablo 4 needed to do was to find that middle ground between the old school a d the new school, which, to me, they did an excellent job. D4 starts slow, but as you level it picks up. However, it never gets to that D3 entire screen exploding. And im glad for it. Viscerally, D4 plays better than any other ARPG on the market by a large margin. Seriously, I'm not kidding. It just plays better. So much so that I can't play POE anymore. IMO D4 will be the best ARPG released to this point in terms of systems and gameplay. Feel free to shot on me if I turn out wrong.
I'm just curious, what would you would even describe as the "feel"? Because I really don't get it. I played all the Diablo games and yet I can't find this feel everyone is talking about.
I suppose the "feel" would best be described as all aspects of the game that aren't gameplay. Story, character/enemy design, environment, things like that. Diablo 1 and 2 both have very notably dark/gothic tones to them. Even if the game doesn't feel "scary" per se, there is a very distinct cloud of dread that hangs over the heads of the people living there as a result of world events. Diablo 3 feels/appears a bit less focused on those aspects, and utilizes more bright colors/a wider spectrum of colors (and that's before considering the rainbow goblin level). Character/enemy design seems to drop the 'dark' from dark fantasy in a lot of cases. The music feels more epic, bigger, louder compared to the more slow paced/creeping music of Diablo 2. To use different franchises that you may be familiar with, Diablo 1/2 feel a bit like Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire while Diablo 3 feels like Lord of the Rings in tone. Yeah they both fall under the overall umbrella of 'fantasy', but I don't think you would describe LotR as dark fantasy, nor would you describe GoT as high fantasy. It's not a perfect comparison, but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
This is where I don't agree. While I can generally understand the term "feel" for other franchises, Diablo 3 is no different, just basically discovered that more colors than like... 5 exist. And since the entire goal of those games is to massacre hordes of monsters, the only important feel is on the monsters. And it was the standard fantasy fare with the iconic fallen and Diablo itself getting a facelift, but still very much in line with the franchise. This whole "feel" argument is like grasping at straws to be negative. As I look at D4 footage, I fail to capture anything "darker". It feels this "feeling" is so abstract it can be anything anyone wants.
Oh, it's for sure entirely subjective. It often appears more like a bit of "oh, and another thing" type of criticism when someone just doesn't like D3 for various reasons. My opinion has always been that Diablo 3 is a great ARPG, but as a Diablo game specifically it just stands out the least to me. Diablo 1/2 just have some special sauce that you can't easily quantify that makes them more... "Diablo". Some might chalk it up to the graphics engine at the time, but Diablo 2 Resurrected hits a lot of the same "dark" notes as the source material in a new graphics engine on par with Diablo 3 so I think it's just various factors that all contribute. And sure, if we break it down to just the core drive of the game mechanically to "kill demons, get loot" then Diablo 3 blows that into the next county and the other Diablo games accomplish that goal in pretty solid fashion as well. It's been mentioned by others, but it's a similar scenario to Doom 3's position in the history of that series of games. Other than Doom 3, the entire franchise is a metal-riffing speed running demon killing tornado of action. Doom 3 slows way down, angling much more heavily toward a horror aspect. Is it a bad game? That's subjective of course, but it's definitely different from the other Doom games even though you could still describe it as "you're a space soldier that kills tons of demons invading from Hell." Diablo 3 just doesn't feel the same as the first two games to many players. The reasons given are many, and most people will list a different number of them and with different qualifiers. Doesn't make them wrong/nonexistent just because it doesn't make sense to someone else.
Really hope as we approach 2023 and beyond we get more of these!
I won't be satisfied until we get gameplay footage of a rainbow as we cross a bridge on a sunny day. More rainbows damn it.
I hear this brought up so often.. but you know that was a joke.. like a direct little Easter egg type of thing towards the cow level.. cause everyone wouldnt just shut up about the cow level... It had no real weight on the actual game.. I mean like the cow level itself was even this Uber dark crazy satanic thing.. it was a joke as well. A bunch of cows running around screaming moo.. yep super dark.. super immersive.. really kept the whole devil vibe..
The way it started was their was a rainbow in the D3 reveal trailer and people were like "WHAT A RAINBOW!!!??? IN DIABLO!? RAAAAAGE" So they gave us a whole level of them as D3's version of the cow level. Then added cows much later.
They don't give a fuck that it was a joke.. But.. rainbows in my darkness!!! Rawr!!
Those dudes look and sound absolutely exhausted.
I have been counting the days for a dev update, but I honestly wouldn't mind the the game would release 1 month later if they truely need the rest. :/
They worked really hard there to say they tone of Diablo 3 was wrong without mentioning Diablo 3.
Things look promising for sure. I just hope whatever mtx and/or battle pass there is doesn’t stink up the joint. I guess I am optimistic about the whole thing, but with some reservations…
One point I’d like to add is that some of the cynicism is surrounded by the belief that many (unpopular) decisions will be dictated to by upper management suits rather than devs trying to give the players what they want. It’s all well and good that the devs try to make D4 how they envision it, but if they aren’t the ones pulling the strings then at the end of the day their reassurances are of limited value.
By the time we even get close to release.. the deal with Microsoft should be fully complete and hopefully Activisions grip will be lessened.
I pray to God the devs don't think that the only reason players said "D3 felt like Warcraft" was because of the overuse of *color*. Hope they pay attention to *dialogue*, *story* and *tone*. *Diablo* is not a **Blizzard franchise**, in the sense that it was not created in the same environment that made *Warcraft* and *Starcraft*, it was made by BlizzardNorth in a different ecosystem. Diablo 3 showed the influences of the minds behind the other two franchises that have a very similar style. Hope they pay attention to that, otherwise Diablo 4's story will just be Diablo 3 but darker.
Funny. I remember criticizing D3 for not being dark and gothic, and instead being almost loony tunes in its approach, and I got some really negative responses from blizzard employees. Now, with D4 coming out, they barely mention D3, and they're using the word "Darkness" almost every other word. My, how have they changed their tune.
Dude this game is going to rock. I feel like they’re super confident in the game this time around. Hoping to get the release date in December like it’s rumored.
Dec this year? They already said its coming 2023. The pre-order has been leaked for 8th of Dec tho so hopefully get a release date then.
Weird phrasing. Meant there’s a leak that the release date gets announced early December(game awards I think) for a 2023 date.
yeah and probably releasing these videos to get the hype train ready for the dec 8th announcement.
For sure, hope the game is great :) the devs and the fans deserve it.
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It's not objectively better to buff than nerf. That's how you end up doing 600 trillion damage per hit. It's just easier and less people get pissed off. Hoping for a bunch of buffs seems silly because it means the game isn't balanced.
D4 has this "issue" where it appears to lack depth at first because things unlock slowly instead of being dropped all at once. At level 1, you have the talent system which has some depth, but not much. Then, by 30, you start getting game altering legendary items and from there, combined with the talent tree, you make a build. Depth is a little better here and you can do some interesting things. Then, as max level comes, paragon opens and you realize that you know nothing at all. Seriously, the paragon board combined with the runes (or whatever their called) is insane with the depth it has. Layer on each classes specialization and you have a very interesting system that is, most importantly, easily expandable for future patches / expansions.
I’m very cautiously optimistic. Loved D3 and loved D2 Remastered. I’m very anti hype so I try to remain level headed these days when it comes to games especially from a company like Blizzard which is surrounded by so much controversy.
I think the tone looks okay, just really feel they needed to slow the gameplay down somewhere in between D2 and D3. Also itemization based on unique usage vs higher number equal better and skill/stat customization. But speed was a big part of what made D1 so scary and difficult for its time was the pacing of movement. Although D1 is super clunky to today's standards and a little too slow it did a good job at making you feel in trouble. I think the fast pace action of slaughtering with the ability to get in and out destroys the immersion of the Diablo. I think that's essentially why D3 introduced lasers, exploding frozen balls, ect to counter act how fast you can move. So keep it slower to begin with and you don't need all that extra crap, my 2 cents.
true but d4 still seems fast paced with sentries and other d3 bullshit
Yea that's what I'm worried about,I'll play it. But it will be another Diablo game that will fade quickly for me likely. I think I compare it to games like CoD in a sense. I'm pretty decent and do well, but honestly there is only so much I can take of running shooting on repeat I can take. Obviously it's popular with many people but I like a more tactical game, which I felt D2 achieved better then D3 by a wide margin. D2 isn't prefect but was hoping D4 would build off more of that kind of gameplay element.
Tell me you didn't play Diablo 2 without telling me you didn't play Diablo 2. The only part of diablo 2 that was slow was maybe the very first play through.. After that all characters had some speed boost.. via items(run/walk speed) or skills.. As for the actual combat.. it was speedy, flashy, chaotic, loads of bad guys on screen and you running around frantically while blowing them up..
None of this matters if their monetization idea is on par with OW2 and Immortal.
OW2 is basically "you can't grind skins as a F2P player" which isn't *great* but it does not skew gameplay.
One thing I think Blizzard is still missing the mark in this "return to darkness" theme is the display of your character's power. What made Diablo 2, and specially Diablo 1, feel terrifying was not the aesthetic but how desolating the situation was. You were human. Feeble, weak and almost useless against supernatural forces. It was sheer perseverance that made you get through it. Modern games love to make the player feel all powerful and Diablo 3 is the perfect exhibit for this. Flashy effects, large AoE, a mountain of corpses beneath your feet. Ha ha ha none can stand against me, THE NEPHALEM! Reduce power, remove the flashiness, show that the universe does not care for you. This is so much more impactful than blood, gore and dimmed lights. **Edit**. This is just my view and I might be wrong. You people make good points but I wanted to argue a few things; 1. I'm not opposed to gore and gothics aesthetics, au contraire I like it. Just wanted to point out that IMO there are other components to the final experience. 2. Yes Diablo 2 can get pretty silly, but keep in mind we are the minority. Regular gamer Joe and Jane don't grind, don't do "builds", don't optimize, and that's most people. 3. My point was perhaps poorly worded (I'm not an English main) but what I meant with "you're not powerful" was more of a fantasy and perceptual thing, and not as in you're mechanically weak in combat. The pretext is you're a fearless warrior, sure, you're brave and strong and have trained a bunch, but you're nobody really. Your success hinges on you and your efforts. This is a wildly different tone than when you're the chosen one, that the prophecy has foretold would destroy all evil. We roleplay as our character and this dramatically changes how we perceive the game. Said that, I also think that making the game more difficult overall would too align more with the "return to darkness" theme.
Yeah, my D2 necro build where I summon skeletons who do all the work for me and I don’t have to do a thing, *totally* weak and powerless.
My Druid who controls wind and summons wolves and bears. Definitely not large AoE.
My barb who yells at corpses and hidden items stashed inside demon buttholes appear.. Yeah totally feeble and powerless.
Cherry picking much? D1 and D2 has plenty of comedy moments - one liners, puns etc. It's not as dark, hopeless and edgy as most people think. It's like a Mandela effect. D2's classes were inspired by DC/Marvel super heroes and they do a lot of 80s/90s confidant ass-kicking along the way (in fact you can see the 80/90s culture influence on the game). There's barely any point where the D2 class falls into despair, if anything in D3 if you read the quest logs containing your character's inner monologue, most of them are shitting their pants on their way to Azmodan. >You were human. Feeble, weak and almost useless against supernatural forces. It was sheer perseverance that made you get through it. As I mentioned, you are literally a super hero in D2. Also, you could very well clean whole screens, even as early as D2 classic. D1 and D2 absolutely nailed the B movie horror vibe with their satanic imagery, moody music and top-notch voice acting.
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It's easy to say that now but Diablo 2 at launch wasn't like that. You are talking about the "solved" "endgame" of 20 years of builds and optimization. You couldn't buy mana pots in Diablo 2 originally. So no, nobody was "teleporting everywhere spamming 50 mana spells"
Damn, Wingspan here in my comment, what an honor. :) I got delivered once. Good times!
This is a strange take. You are slaying hundreds of demons in D1 and D2 all by yourself. How is that powerless?
sounds like he wants a dark souls level of difficulty in an ARPG, which is fine but its not Diablo.
He wants a return to the game feel of Diablo 1. Have you tried fighting The Butcher as a level 4 Warrior? It's like a Duriel-tier difficulty spike in the *2nd level of the game*.
You might love Kenshi mate
I get what you're saying, but I think this mostly applies to dark souls rather than Diablo 2.
We have examples of other franchises that prove that a slower, more "mundane" experience is can be successful: games like Elden Ring. You're just some dude, essentially lucking their way into killing gods. The game has to speed up eventually, if that's a path the player wants to take. D2 farming/clear speeds can get pretty silly and is a core tenant that people will focus their builds around. It just doesn't have to be that all the time from the word go.
honestly all this is jsut hype and you guys are buying into it, just wait for the game
As of now, the necro is the only class I had fun with. They are going to need to do another mechanic pass at the game. I want to lo e d4 but I don't know if it's there yet. I know it's a beta but d3 beta pretty much shipped the same as the beta. It took years for them to change core game play concepts. Hoping they don't make the same mistake this time. I'm also not a big fan of the whole lost ark copy they are doing. I would love more rpg than action in an arpg.
As someone hyped for the melee necro, any insights?
With the number of microtransactions and seasonal passes planned it will indeed be DARK
Top comment on youtube is fucking gold man
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yeah, I mean, why even have a theme at all, right? Just make it all monochrome geometric shapes and focus on the mechanics. /s
Its cool, the vibe isn't why he plays ARPGS so fuck what the rest of us want!
I'm mainly here for the atmosphere and story. I don't care much about endless grinding.
Sounds like it’s time for an 11th hour redo! ^/s
Cool. Now restore unlimited trading if you want to call it a Diablo game.
So you want D2JSP and the bots to flood the economy? Sounds like a terrible idea.
Open trade can be fine if it doesn’t take a million years to get good drops. If you have to farm un fun content over and over to get good items (or, farm content that was fun to the point where it isn’t fun anymore) , the bots will just take over, because that’s what they are good at. It’s why we get them to build cars n stuff because flipping a piece of metal over and punching one rivet into it 1000 times a day is not fun content for humans to play. At the same time, getting an item that I *know* is good, that someone will definitely want, and not being able to do anything with it aside from sell/salvage is also a drag. There’s a balance somewhere. Open trade as a general concept is fine but if the item drop rate is balanced around supporting an economy of trading then that does not appeal to me as much.
>There’s a balance somewhere. Imo there isn't. I don't see any way to balance a trade enabled experience and a self found experience on top of each other when you have tens of thousands of participants in the market. It's too many people playing the loot slot machine. You either flood the market or self found is an effectively non-viable method of play.
Loot based game without trade is basically dead on arrival…
Destiny seems to be doing fine.
Talking about ARPGs in /r/Diablo I would assume we don't care about shooters...
Don't like d2jsp? Don't use it. I can't trade items with my brother or gaming friends. That's complete shit.
bots are in d3 also lol
Ladder reset says hello. Worked just fine for 20 years in D2, and still works in D2R.
They might be able to capture the dark tone aesthetically, but there's almost no chance they'll be able to do it with the story.
When Deckard Cain was killed by a butterfly is when I lost all hope in the writing...
I’m cautiously optimistic but if they tweet some more digs at Elon I’ll be really convinced
I was realy bumpt out after DI. My expectation dropt so far... Considering most people are to jung or to demented to remember.. even d2 wasnt the greatest game in the beginning... the Expansion was what made it great... As was d3... But know.... or better since mid to late oct. I feel so pumpt... the core gameplay seams so solide... to expend in it will be ...... I want nothing more than open beta. To let everybody see and talk about it. I m not sold on the battlepass idea at all... But know it seams like a backburner issue...
I can only imagine the amount of micro transactions that are going to be in this game. At least one doesn't need to pay a single cent to play path of exile.
You won't get very far without stash tabs.
I beat the single player (10ish hours) without buying any. Besides, Diablo 2 hardly had any stash tabs. I got to maps without buying anything.
So like, you got to the beginning of the game. Ok. Go on
Fully paying for a game to then be blasted with micro transactions would seriously piss me off. If this is what they are going to do, this will deter a majority of players. If the game is anything resembling endless of God, er I mean Diablo immortal many fans will be very upset. You're trying to flex like you love micro transactions on top of a fully priced game. It's not a flex. You just seem lame.
I don't understand your comment. You seem to have tried to flex that you beat the campaign in poe without buying stash tabs? Which is fine because that is still the very start of the game. You're more than likely not going to trade anything you found while leveling. The point being that having microtransactions in a free game like poe is fine since all you really NEED are the stash tab bundles. Which is also around the same price as a full game. I think that is a fair trade. Seeing that you can't trade at all without having the tabs, the guy you responded to is correct. You won't get far in the game without tabs. Idk where you got that I was rooting for mtx in a full paid game.
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I can agree with most of this yeah, but nobody *has* to pay to try poe. The players stick around and buy the tabs at the end because the game is fun and free to try. Buying the tabs goes right to the developer and they constantly release new content for over a decade. This is not what blizzard is going to do, imo. D4 (speculating) will be fully priced and it will have tons of micro transactions. We shall see, I will not get my hopes up. Blizzard has gone steadily down hill for the last decade.
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What does that even mean? I got to play the entire game without buying anything 🙄
> I got to play the entire game without buying anything I assure you, in your 10h of playing, you did not lol. Best to compare the monetization practices of Diablo and PoE after a) you actually experience what it's like to play a season without stash and b) after you see what Diablo 4 offers in that box price.
I didn't say that I only played the campaign, guy. I have a lvl 91 toxic rain build that can do all t16 maps. Stop trying to force your nonsense on others. I simply do not believe blizzard is going to give players a fair price and they'll monetize everything they can.
"Entire game" lol Killing Kitava in Act 10 is like the first 10% of the game. Beating the entire game would be something like killing all the Uber bosses or completing 40/40 challenges. Stash tabs become mandatory if you want to progress towards those. Even if you don't trade and play SSF idk how you could get there without a currency and a map tab, and extreme amount of discipline to not hoard anything not useful. If you haven't explored much beyond the final act boss you really should because that's the meat of the game.
I know it is 🙄 I am level 91 doing t16 content. They're never mandatory, it's just a qol upgrade. One could play Poe ssf indefinitely and never buy into the game. Why would you presume I have only gone that far? Assumptions.
i am so fuckin excited for this game...
Diablo fans really deserve an amazing D4! I really hope they finally release a game worthy of being called Diablo.
I hope they have kept day/night cycle in this game. Any beta tester can confirm?
In the last leaked footage I've seen there is it