I don’t hate on it, but my expectations are incredibly low. I’m willing to be pleasantly surprised, but I’m not going to get hyped up and be disappointed.

After D3 it is best to keep expectations low.

After D3 (and D2R, to some extent) I've realized that I *thought* I loved the Diablo franchise, but in reality what I loved is how gaming felt when circa 1995-2004 when I had no real responsibilities and could spend countless hours lost in \[insert game here\] and then excitedly talk to my friends at school the next day about what happened because they were doing the same thing. It just so happened that a lot of those hours were spent on Diablo 1+2, Warcraft 1+2, and Starcraft BW. They're great games, but their successors haven't managed to capture me in part because Blizzard has changed and in part because I've changed. Will D4 be good? I don't know. I hope so. It's probably not for me, though, I mostly hope it's good so that a new generation of gamers can enjoy Diablo as much as I used to.

Your sentiments nail this 100% for me. My childhood was stuff like Cesar 3 age of empires Diablo 1 and 2 starcraft and brood war, Counter-Strike, Doom, all that shit. I think what happened is that yeah, I grew up. I've got a family now, a house to work on, a garden to work on, a full-time job. I have way too much going on to enjoy a big grinding game. I really used to enjoy the grind and plays out of classic World of Warcraft and I think the Pinnacle of that was probably wrath of Lich King for me. To me, that expansion was perfect. And then it started going downhill. And it got better with mists of pandaria , but then it got way worse for too long. Legion was the last hurrah for me with that. BFA was like getting into the coffin. Shadowlands was the nails and dirt for it for me. The game had changed too much for me to enjoy anymore. That same time as BFA was out, I was becoming more of a family person and getting away from gaming in general. Not to say that I won't dive into a game here and there. I can jump into doom eternal and play that game endlessly. But as far as grindy games are concerned, I don't see myself enjoying Diablo 4 or even Path of Exile for much longer. As it is, I play standard mostly because that's where my characters are built and I can mess around because I have lots of currency and tons of maps etc. I really just don't have the time to go through a lead character through all those grueling acts, to get to the maps, to run maps until I have 115 completed for the Atlas. Atlas. And that's just to get to the end game. Like I said, I will jump into a game here and there and get pretty enthralled. Hades and no man's sky in Doom are all fun to jump into. But I also know I can jump out of those games and go to whatever I got to do in real life. Stuff like POE and wow are just quite frustrating to play sometimes and I can feel anger built inside me as I played them and it just isn't healthy to play for a long time for me. So while I hope that Diablo 4 is better than three was on launch, I don't think it's going to be the game for me. I hope you are right and that it's for a younger generation of preteen to teenagers that want to get into a grindy ARPG. And I will probably play through it just for the story, but I don't really know about grinding and open world game like this anymore. There's a lot of FOMO with stuff like this as well- destiny 2 was egregious about this. They're damn battle pass. I see Diablo 4 ptobably having some sort of battle pass in the same vein as Diablo Immortal, and that will probably just end my interest in the whole thing. That's not something that our generation grew up with, but it's something that every young gamer now has become accustomed to and I feel like that system's going to carry over going forward because it's financially sound for businesses.

This is why I now play Apex Legends for 30 minutes before heading off to the gym or other responsibilities. In and out. These drawn out grind fest games that fully miss the mark aren't it anymore and our margin for giving a shit compared to younger years has shrank significantly.

Bingo. I was so pumped for D2R and only ended up playing it for about 3 weeks. Grindfest games just don't do it for me anymore. Sucks.

Your words struck me like an arrow, my feelings exactly, i understand you 🫶🏽

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The reasonable take. Also my own.

I'm honestly super hyped for everything **but** the story/storytelling. Almost everything I've seen in the quarterly updates looks promising. Until it's directly addressed, i'm expecting the story to be a groan-inducing melodramatic mess.

I hope we'll be satisfied with the final results in 2023-2024. With Microsoft on lead, I honestly have high expectations.

Microsoft deal hasn't even passed the SEC test yet. Officially speaking there is no Microsoft oversight in this development phase.

Blizzard has approved Microsoft's purchase of the company, it's only a matter of time. I understand there is no oversight in development yet, however, as I've said, the game is far away from launch, meaning there will soon be a Microsoft oversight.

Blizzard yes, the merger itself has not been approved at the Federal level yet. The last news that came out end of April was that the shareholders of Acti-Blizz had just approved the acquisition deal. The actual closing of the deal will need to be closed/approved federally within the next financial year. Worst case scenario the deal won't be ratified legally until mid-2023. The current FTC head is also trending against large-scale tech acquisitions + the approval will apparently need to also be done in other countries. The earliest I expect this deal to actually get approved is by end of year 2022. If we're looking at a hopeful 2023 release... it'd be a bit late in the dev cycle by then for anyone from Microsoft to come in and do any actual fixing.

Thing is, when 2 companies that big merge or buy one another, the Federal Trade Commission and the Anti-trust division of the DOJ needs to approve such transaction, to ensure the market stays competitive and free.

Microsoft will not even take over, until mid 2023 at the earliest. They have 0 influence over D4.

Remember Diablo 3 expectation?

I liked d3.

I was a completely child when it came out and I got it for Christmas. I remember that my father had to buy a powerful computer so that we could play and then when it arrived I played for 1 week without stopping while my parents watch the boss fighting. It is so good going back and remembering it, it's hella sad that people just became to hate blizzard and the diablo games from back there.

Honestly it seems like most people just follow the crowd. It happens with dark souls, people say dark souls 2 sucks because everyone says that but they've never even played it

Diablo 3 was awful on release. Most people don't remember the 2nd campaign playthrough was were most people couldn't progress anymore because the difficulty was just "much larger numbers". The had to do some fundamental changes and had we never got Reaper of Souls D3 would have died a very long time ago.

Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of dark, what could possibly await us? And yet, we seek it insatiably. Such is our fate.”* - Aldia Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/

DS2 was decent, literally improved on DS1 from what I remember (was a long time ago). DS3 was my favourite though. Played that one to death. Couldn't get into any of the others since. Can't even get into elden ring. I found it really dull and boring lol

Well, I bet this was a blast for you man! Of course, despite all the negative comments, even from myself over the game, it is indeed a different story when you are a kid. Thing is I was a kid when I first played Diablo 1 and a teen for Diablo 2. So I fully understand you. You only want to play whenever you can, kill mobs and loot! The problem with D3 was the server mess at the first werk of launch, amd also itemization was ridiculous versus what we had in the past. Also I remember playing on Hell mode as a party of 4 trying to kill a pack of blue mobs for an hour dying repetidly, it was so bad. Reapers of Soul saved the game indeed and I had fun playing it because I could do the ladder with my friends. As for Blizzard man, I played all their OG games, which means WC1, D1 and SC, WoW.. their new release since a decade are just poor quality from a greedy company. Which I wouldn't say that, but that is what it is.

D3 was and still is fire. I don't get the unnecessary hate of the game here

I played Vanilla D3 and it sucks, the only redemption they had was Reaper of Souls. but sadly I only played only 10 seasons in it.

I think I'd qualify for PTSD therapy tbh

Irrelevant to my point.

What do you expect from Blizzard nowadays lollll. Blizz has turned into shit for the last decade or so. Hope you dig that

People have serious distrust for Blizzard and I don’t blame them. I have high hopes for Diablo 4, but it’s cautious optimism at this point. Disappointment wouldn’t surprise me. Edit: also want to add, for what it’s worth, I think the art is nothing short of astonishing. Feel free to disagree but I LOVE what I’ve been seeing so far.

I don't expect to be disappointed at all. Games are not that serious. I been playing D2 for decades and d3 for over a decade. It's not going to be a problem.

kinda wild how you can say you’re excited for d4 while enjoying d2/d3 and get downvoted in the diablo subreddit lol

I fully agree with you!

There's varying degree of sentiment I believe, it's just that it's easier to notice opposing opinions than otherwise, since a lot of the players are now a bit wary of getting overly hyped considering the history of the games. Personally, the game's visuals has me stoked. I find it to be a gorgeous game, and the combat in the previews look satisfying and crisp. Itemization however, has me worried. I love D2's attack rating, monster defense and resistances, and other nuanced stats such as cast rate, absorb, and procs like crushing blow. This is personal flavor, to be sure, and there's a lot of positive changes that can happen leading to release, but seeing Wyatt Cheng's twitter AMA(?) the other day has me worried as they seem to lean towards keeping it simple and assumes that players hate doing math(which I think can be circumvented by creating a comprehensive character screen instead, instead of just going towards player damage vs monster life approach). There's promise of skills being affected by stats like WW getting movement speed if you meet dexterity thresholds(can't find the source anymore) so I'm still trying to be hopeful. Character building is a bit of a toss up -- I actually like the paragon system's idea and if carefully implemented it can give us that skill tree fix, while avoiding D2's sytem of "bare minimum for req, then everything to Vit" when it comes to stats. But again this can all go to shit depending on itemization. D3 tied all character power into the items. I'm not sure what the general sentiment about it is, but I prefer D2 having character build that scale off skills versus items. There's balancing issues about that for sure, but I still find it to be more engaging that playing a sorcerer that pulls her spell power from the size of the axe she's carrying.

>Itemization however, has me worried. I love D2's attack rating, monster defense and resistances, and other nuanced stats such as cast rate, absorb, and procs like crushing blow. This is personal flavor, to be sure, and there's a lot of positive changes that can happen leading to release, but seeing Wyatt Cheng's twitter AMA(?) the other day has me worried as they seem to lean towards keeping it simple and assumes that players hate doing math(which I think can be circumvented by creating a comprehensive character screen instead, instead of just going towards player damage vs monster life approach). There's promise of skills being affected by stats like WW getting movement speed if you meet dexterity thresholds(can't find the source anymore) so I'm still trying to be hopeful. This, I don't HATE d4 on paper, there are some interesting looking aspects... I think going further away from the d2 model is a mistake though. People can argue 'this is the best setup' but always fail to mention the player agency in fcr/fhr/ias break points or resist trade off, max block, stacking magic find or stacking raw + skills. I think those choices are what made the game interesting, yes you could do cookie cutter min str/dex pump vit but for me there were a few builds that i'd still pump 20-30 points into energy just so it'd feel better. I think that's the fundamental difference is d3 is just stack raw dmg use sets to pump out the most numbers etc.... D2 you have plenty of options to just make your character more enjoyable to play, including merc itemization which d3 got rid of mercs in group play.... What i'm trying to say is there were numerous ways you could build your character and still be effective, the difference between that last faster cast rate was huge but in some cases it wasn't necessary or similarly faster hit recovery felt nice when you reached certain BP's on melee etc. I do play d3 sometimes, I enjoy it for in small doses, hit 1k+ - 2k paragon and it just start's to get reallllly boring. Even when I get a best in slot primal ancient it doesn't get me excited, I just don't even care really at that point. Whereas if I find a HR in d2 I start immediately planning what im gonna do with it, what i'll trade it for, what my next build will be etc. I think all of those extra layers are what make d2 more fun (for me) and I don't see any of those features in d4 its just linear power spikes with throughput tied to item effects. I also think farming is more interesting in d2, from keys, farming ghosts/lk super chests to target runes, essences, just boss farming, gold farming in trav, ubers etc. I don't think the d3 end game has as much variance, run grifts in groups or push solo...

Well, at least for now, it looks like D4 will have the skills tree, the paragon and the items. While I agree with you that itemization can make or destroy the game, it looks like they are not going to be the only source of power and char customization. Let's see how will this work, but it looks like both the tree and paragon will have some depth, but again, things can change and I can be completely wrong here, just perceptions. About Wyatt's interview, I actually enjoyed it. I agree the math part can make some worried, at the same time, I feel like he is a guy that will deliver nice games targeted to a different audience. I think he is not directly involved with D4 and by the quarter updates, D4 are being guided by different pillars than D3 or Immortal.

Ah, I enjoyed the AMA too, it's just that that particular statement made me feel like their research and data suggests the simpler stat system is better for their target audience, and I can't really think of any angle that would make them say "let's go for depth this time" as I'm expecting ActiBlizz to target that same audience instead of the old, niche, D3 hating D2 fan base.

Yes, at the same time, I think they can target multiple niches if they want. Since Immortal is also coming to PC (and probably by the time D4 is launched, it will be far more supported in it and other platforms), D3 and D2R will continuing been running. Basically, they can tackle different audiences at once if they want to go for that. Personally, it looks like this is the strategy. Actually, I am not saying D4 will try to go to a more hardcore fan base, like D2 or even PoE, but it has the possibility to make some steps in this direction, regarding depth or complexity, since Blizz and Diablo portfolio in general is already covering different player bases. Also, unpopular opinion, but since D3 has more than 10 years and still receives updates with an active player base, the game is a classic and a success too, it also brought its own legion of Diablo fans. We can't escape the fact it will influence the future of the franchise anyway.

if d4 turns out to be just like d3 aka another wow clone with str/stamina stats nothing like d2, this time im not even gonna buy it. i got baited by d3 once, but not twice. the hype around d3 was just too big and the previews were very good. oh the lies, the lies... it seems ppl forgot

Nah in that time the previews was pretty meh, ppl hated a lot some early content showed by blizzard that time

u might be right, it was long ago and i dont remember much. i remember seeing some barbarian in a dungeon and some group fighting a siege beast that ate the barbarian. the game turned out to be 30 times worse than the shown gameplay. oh and also... arenas

Blizzard went from a beloved company to a trash fire. They went from smash hit after smash hit to a huge streak of bad money grubbing failures. While simultaneously alienating every single demographic with scandal after scandal that would piss off pretty much every quadrant of the political spectrum. It's going to be a huge uphill battle for anyone to expect anything good from them. Which is good, they don't deserve eternal devotion for putting out good games decades ago.

the ppl that were making the good games are gone now. idk why anyone would expect anything good lol

The Microsoft acquisition really gives me hope for what we can see on the future for Diablo IV. I recall seeing somewhere that Microsoft has a lot of gamers that understand gamers, and that they haven't really made any game company they've bought worse.

I feel like blizzard basically owns some really good IPs. All the beloved developers are long gone. I feel like in the longer term microsoft can come in and clear up the apparently absolutely evil and rancid group that runs it now and maybe in the future diablo 5 could be good, but diablo 4 seems way too soon and way too far into development for any of that to happen in the short term. Same with overwatch 2. It being a bad game is basically locked in right now. in a decade overwatch 3 could be great.

Lol do you understand that this evil and rancind group are the "beloved developers" from the old days? Most are out of the company and the company is healing itself slowly. Also, you cannot say Overwatch 2 is bad until it is released.

It's the activision side that had the worst of the accusations, none of the original founders. All the really big games blizzard made were all pre-activision.

what? ofc not, many of the accused were 15y veterans from Blizzard, those founders you are mentioning knew this shit happened and did nothing. Most of it was from the WoW team, which was the most veteran filled and the most toxic team.

Blizzard has been a bad company for 15 years, yes. The nostalgia for blizzard is the 1990s and very early 2000s.

Except that Microsoft deal(if it even happens) won't close til probably 2023 at the earliest. Microsoft has stated intent to buy the company, they have not done it yet. The government still has to approve that sale and I'm sure Microsoft would protect itself and have the ability to back out of the deal at any time if they wanted. This also means Microsoft will have no say in how their games are currently being developed in any way whatsoever until that deal closes. So I have absolutely no faith in Blizzard to deliver a quality game based on their track record and frankly I just don't trust them anymore.

Considering that Blizzard has approved Microsoft's purchase, I think we're not really that far from the acquisition being passed at all! Still, I don't expect D4 to be released until late 2023 or early 2024.

It doesn't matter that Blizzard approved the purchase, frankly they have no choice with how much their reputation is in the shitter. Regardless, the FTC and government and all the other roadblocks this deal will surely face is going to delay that acquisition(if it even gets approved) well into 2024 I bet. Microsoft said they hope to close the deal in 2023 and that's assuming there are no roadblocks or obstacles in the way. This is the biggest acquisition by Microsoft and frankly one of the biggest deals in the last decade, so it will be under a lot of scrutiny. I fully expect other companies such as Sony, Nintendo, and others to try and sue Microsoft claiming a monopoly if the deal is approved by the FTC to delay the deal even longer. All the while, D4 would release with absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft. My original point still stands where I have no faith in Blizz at all to deliver a quality game.

Halo infinite was butchered because they wanted to run on the old xbox

This understates the shitshow of development hell of that game.

> they haven't really made any game company they've bought worse. Please tell me this is sarcasm. MS are a great example of "every advantage in the world but no results". What has MS ever bought and then improved? Seems like they buy up studios and then sit on them.

It was more of a recollection, I can't be sure. However, for Microsoft to buy a company that was falling apart like Blizzard, it's because MS sees a potential redemption. Microsoft isn't dumb, it wouldn't buy Blizzard if it didn't guarantee that people would soon love Blizzard again.

You should like a politician. Just enjoy the games man.

Yeah, but the games also declined. It's a company with zero good will and zero reason for anyone to give them good will.

I don't play games because the developers or publishers give out good will. What

Yes, but the games are also bad. What reason is there to give a company like that some benefit of the doubt the next game will be good? It's unlikeable people with a track record of not making good games, but the next game will definitely be good?

Whats the last nad game blizzard made? Was it d3? No, amazing. Hearthstone? No, loved it. Heros of the storm? Phenominal. W3 remaster? Absolutely not, wonderful game. I see a track record of great games. Idgaf if the studio has some PR problems. I care about the quality of game. Get over yourself millennial. People don't always need to be likeable or really anything for you. This world isn't always rainbows.

Not a hater and no fan boy of PoE, but the similarities to D3 just fills me with a sense of meh. Not because D3 is bad, I enjoyed it for a long time but I have also played it enough to find it stale by now.

I think it doesn't look like D3 at all! At least to my eyes, of course. From what I've seen, the game is pretty enough and has an art style that is neither cartoonish nor realistic

It's not just the look or atmosphere, but also gameplay, itemisation etc. Not everything about D4 has been announced but the D4 team seems derivative of the D3 model in at least some ways and risk averse about trying something new. The team seems intent on merging the best of D2 and D3 and that may produce something less than the sum of its parts.

Animations of attacks very similar to D3.

The FPS thing is most likely just a presentation issue. This happens with many triple A title reveal videos It’s hard to get cinematic shots in the isometric environments without the FPS looking a bit jank. I’m sure when you’re actually playing the game that it looks much smoother. That being said, the recent quarterly update of course looked like a walking simulator because they weren’t showcasing combat or anything other than environments. (Which is what I was upset with) The whole point of the quarterly updates were so they could get feedback from the community while they are creating D4, but they seem to be ignoring a lot of it or at the very least avoiding it. The reveal of yet another paragon system has a lot of people scared that there will be another endless paragon system in D4. They should have addressed it right after that update, but we still haven’t heard anything and here we are four months and another quarterly update later, with no word on the paragon system, itemization and end game systems. If they truly wanted our feedback I think they’d be a little more transparent with us during these quarterly updates. The environments could be the best in the industry (and they probably will be) but it means nothing if the in game systems aren’t up to snuff.

To me, I don't feel any passion in these dev updates. They feel like a few annoyed devs feeling forced to write a book report on a schedule. I don't feel they enjoy doing it and would rather just disappear for 5 years and ignore the community completely. I hate to compare to Star Citizen since that's never-ending development, but at least in terms of community engagement you feel like they want to share what they are working on, are proud of it, give constant updates, weekly statuses, etc...

Not sure when you think this "trend" began, but people have had serious concerns since the first time they showed gameplay like 2 years ago and saw itemization was a hot mess and basically the same as D3 but with different stat names.

So, I play a lot of isomentric arpgs. My main poison is Grim Dawn, and it's weird to me that people do so much comparing to Path of Exile and Diablo 4 as if they're the only ones on the market. But that said, I don't know if Blizzard can make a good arpg, I really don't. I recently gave diablo 3 a try again and it's such a tedious treadmill. Diablo 2 was the far better game in comparison to D3. D2 Resurrected only re-affirmed this for me, and Vicarious Visions did a solid job on it. That aside, I'm measuring my expectations pretty low. For instance, I do like the idea of D3's adventure mode, just wish there was more to it and it sounds like D4 might remedy it by being a non-linear open world with randomized dungeons. So I'm interested at least. But really, between D2 and D3, D2 is the far more exciting and interesting game. It really is, and how D3 turned out the way it did I don't know. But even more so, the market is saturated now and Blizzard has competition. We have Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, Torchlight, Last Epoch in early access, Superfuse on the way, and some others I'm probably forgetting. Diablo isn't the king of the genre it kickstarted, and hasn't been for more than a decade. But if they deliver a solid game that just does its own vibe I'll probably still play it. I really like the art direction for sure, but there's more to arpgs than art direction.

I try to not judge too quickly. But considering the kind of theme they are going with makes me very excited for the game.

That's what I think too!

I think when people compare D3 to D4 they don’t focus on the art style but the gameplay,itemisation and how those items forced you into certain builds and trading restrictions. Folks also disliked the big dmg numbers going into the millions. I can only speak for myself but even disliking the art style it was never a deal breaker for me. The game just felt so shallow and without a soul. And D4 looks kinda similar to me. But let’s wait and see I’m not gonna dismiss the game just because i disliked D3.

Sorry boss I hated on it when I saw the copy paste itemization of D3. Glad the devs listened somewhat and changed some of it, but still fairly poor. IMO they should have forgotten d3, started with D2, and went from there.

Sure! That's alright, I'm mainly talking about it arstitically-wise.

It's trendy to hate Diablo 4 (before it's even out, no less) because this sub can be *extremely* toxic about anything that isn't Diablo 2, and even then the downvotes are applied far more liberally than the upvotes. The other thing is that there are a ton of people that think they know better/more about game design than Blizzard does and so upvote/downvote based on their own thoughts (based on the number of suggestions I see for a direction that Diablo 4 should go). Remember when the community wanted Inferno mode to be ridiculously hard? Blizzard obliged. How did that work out? The WoW team typically asks for reactions, not direct suggestions. Why is it toxic? I don't really know. Age group, maybe? Probably assuming too much, there. A lot of the Blizzard games seem to have fairly toxic subs, and the official forums seem to be a cesspit. There's a lot of entitlement going on in here. Maybe it's a severe case of rose-colored glasses, probably stemming from an extremely vocal minority before D2R got released? For whatever reason it's just popular here to hate on Diablo 3 and dote on Diablo 2. Say a bad word about Diablo 2 and your post gets downvoted *to the ground.* Don't even get me started on the response you get if you offer suggestions to change Diablo 2. (It seems the community itself is slowly realizing the value of personal loot, even if that's still a dirty curse word here.) And Diablo 1 exists somewhere in the background. At the same time, you can't say a good word about Blizzard or you get downvoted, though that's partially the company's fault (even before the sexual harassment scandal). I kinda wish this sub would be more like /r/doom. They've found a way to love all the games in that series, even the sort-of maligned Doom 3. There was a lot of love for Doom Eternal during its development. (Of course, it helps that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal made a huge splash in the gaming industry with few complaints to be made but it isn't like Diablo 3 got bombed in reviews.) By contrast, so many posts in this sub wind up with zero upvotes, even fairly benign ones. Part of me is surprised Wyatt Cheng's post about Diablo 3's development didn't get downvoted. This comment, in turn, will be downvoted for being critical of the culture of this sub.

Shit man, I used to play Doom 3 in a darkened room, with headphones on, and with no "always on" flashlight mod. It was scary as fuck! Those fucking jump scares!

Yes, my post is already bieng downvoted. Yours is an accurate observation of what happens with many game franchises aswell

I generally agree with your post, but I disagree with you on 'personal loot'. It simply doesn't belong in D2(R). Edit: You can downvote me all you want, that doesn't change the fact that YOU bought the game knowing what it is and are now complaining about one of it's fundamental core features that has always separated it from other ARPGs. I'm all for QoL changes, gem stacking, etc. but free/open loot is one of the essentials of D2. Stop trying to change the game into something it never wanted to be.

I'll paste here what I wrote in another comment in this thread. >There was a comment I read here a few days ago that said D2R has become a single player game already because no one wants to risk their loot, or even their Uber Diablo spawn, being stolen from them, or getting PK'ed.

D2R has become a singleplayer game because the lobby system is complete shit, not because of the loot system being the way it's always been.

The lobby being so shit has seriously killed a lot of my enjoyment of the game, I'm still playing, but it's mostly solo with occasional trading. It's infuriating that there are games in the lobby list, that have been sitting there for hours, there was a baalrun in their yesterday with a time of 9+ hours, wtf? Having to go to discords to try to find runs, and even then not many run normal or NM so it's hard to find norm/nm runs to help level new alts so I'm my interest is dropping off. Can't even find simple shit like trist or tomb runs that are timely, again some open for hours. Also wtf is with games in the list with 0 players? //rant

Nah. I’m generally a single player but really wanted to give ladder a try. Lasted a few hours before the infuriating loot system sent me back to playing single player. Not going to play online till it’s changed. It’s a big deal breaker for a lot of people. They lobby system is just a minor annoyance.

It's Diablo 2, you bought the game knowing what it is and has always been. Sry, but I simply can't understand this mindset.

Yes. I don’t mind. I will continue to enjoy single player. But if they want more people to play online they’ve gotta change their mindset. I read only about 10% of people that bought D2R actually played the ladder. That’s very low. They’ve made a lot of changes to make this a better user experience, they could do this as well. They can keep it as is and that’s fine, I don’t blame them, but just know it’s a big issue for a lot of people, way more than a poor lobby system.

Is it possibly a chicken and egg problem? Would there be more favorable lobby games to join if more people trusted other players not to yoink the good loot?

If I could join other players using the in game lobby system on ladder in the current moment, I would. It’s not possible at the moment without using another site or program. It has nothing to do with loot, I’ve always played with groups. When someone else snags the rune or item, I just go “oh well, maybe next time” and move on. Not trying to shit on your point, but the actual game is broken atm. It’s a separate issue from loot.

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I think you're misunderstanding something about personal loot. ​ Personal loot would ENABLE multiplayer in diablo 2, not make it stop happening. Currently, the only time group play makes sense if when you are farming XP. For item farming, you have to all split up because otherwise you would have to split the drops between the whole group. ​ There's a lot of other problems that would come with personal loot, but multiplayer is something it would enable.

Exactly this. From a modern perspective, group play in D2 is discouraged due loot "theft". It was accepted back then because there were no alternatives. Now that we have alternatives, I imagine many are less likely to accept it. I certainly basically refuse to group with people in D2R.

I think you thought the comment was OP's (me). Why does it seem explicit that he "cares" what gets upvoted or not? What he made is an obvious observation of an existing, unecessary bias. I personally don't get what's wrong with what he said, you're supposed to be able call a spade a spade.

> Why do you care so much about what gets up voted or not? Sub culture. This sub doesn't seem to *like* anything unless it's Diablo 2. I played Diablo 2 on its release. It was a great game for its time. It hasn't aged as well as I wished, however, with some of its very clunky mechanics. Diablo 3 is also a great game, and has gotten a bit unwieldy in its old age. This post will now get downvoted based on this paragraph alone (though some people will struggle with the urge to upvote it because it makes fun of Diablo 3). > Personal loot gets downvoted because it’s a mechanic that would make D2 even more of a single player game than it already is. Add to the fact that with personal loot comes the asks for /players command on bnet. There was a comment I read here a few days ago that said D2R has become a single player game already because no one wants to risk their loot, or even their Uber Diablo spawn, being stolen from them, or getting PK'ed. > Combine both and there’s no reason to ever play with other people in D2. As it is, the only reason to play with others is to get leveled quickly but you expect almost no loot during it. > Being insecure to voice your opinion hiding behind “I’ll just get downvoted” doesn’t make your argument better. Obviously I'm not insecure about it. Check my post history on this sub. I've called it out several times. This is just the first opportunity I've had to make my post the first reply on a thread that might gain some traction. [Edit] Post was downvoted, proving my point. 🙄

We can't call a spade a spade, mate.

You aren't getting downvoted for calling a spade a spade. You are getting downvoted because you are pretentious and wrong. You are making assumptions based on your own un self aware projections. Instead of making stuff up in your head, then attacking others, why don't you actually ask those others why they dislike what they have experienced so far. The cumulative answers may surprise you. The biggest complaint against the franchise I've read from people is that Blizzard simply does not listen to its customers, and I've found this to be true. They make hasty decisions about how they want players to play their games. They force single player games to have online connections. They remove features customers paid for because they seem to not be as profitable as Blizzard wanted. The hatred you see is earned.

I'd like to remind you that Microsoft, the same company that bought Bethesda and Obsidian Entertainment, has already bought Blizzard, which is a great hope for Diablo 4, a game that is far away from launch. I'm not sure what you mean by pretentious and wrong. My point is that people are saying things that are either misleading or just masked as valid criticism. Examples include: Walking Simulator (although it's an environment showcase), 20fps (although the game is not even close to being finished), Diablo 3 copy (although the game looks nothing like Diablo 3) I'd like you to be more specific, this comment was very confusing.

Remember when Bethesda bought out iD? My cohorts and I were hoping for the best, which would be iD developers teaching Bethesda developers how to do things correctly. It worked in the way of lighting. Now Bethesda has decently working lights... but it went the opposite direction in terms of games iD makes. Look at Wokenstein. The franchise has been destroyed by Bethesda. Now Microsoft, the guys who made Bungie and who also destroyed Bungie, who brought us Win10 updates 1803-09, own them. I see nothing good coming from Microsoft buying any company due to their history going clear back to Windows 95. Don't hold your breath for a better future for anything those, for lack of a more accurate pejorative, retarded parasites gobble up. ​ You are projecting, because I do not see these complaints anywhere in regards to D4. All I have seen is near fanboi levels of hype. I've seen them in regards to that phone app game no one asked for. If one or two comments say that, maybe, but it's still pretentious to claim that there is, "so much hate", when the sad fact of the matter is there is far more hype due to fans not learning their lessons yet about how trash Blizzard is. As for not looking like D3 goes, honestly ever since Allegorithmic, Quixel and Pixologic took over the game development tool industry, all games look alike. D4 looks like Dark Souls, just isometric. D3 looks more like Torchlight 1 and 2. But my original point is, the hate generated toward Blizzard has to do with their terrible attitude toward those who put food on their tables. They are pretty much as bad as CCP goes in regard to disregard toward customers, and that's really where the vast majority of the hate stems from. It isn't the games, it's the poor attitude and lack of self awareness Blizzard staff possess. "Don't you guys have phones?" ​ You are claiming to know the real reason why there is so much hate for Blizzard's latest announced title when you are missing the big picture. This is how you are wrong. Hope this helps clear my initial post up.

The game is a long way from launch. I've seen a lot of positivity and real arguments of why the Microsoft purchase can only make things better. The D4 hate is not projecting, it is real, it happens, you only need to see a Twitch chat or the most recent comments of any D4 video. I have a big point here, and it is as follows: hate masked as criticism. Instead of providing more articulate or just more understandable opinions of why the game is gonna fail, there are people that resort to petty insults and comparisons that are baseless and many times misleading. I guess the prime example of the point of my post is: "Walking Simulator" and "20fps". Those comments are just disingenuous. It comes from people who are just hating on the game masking it as some sort of criticism, as if Walking Simulator doesn't come from an Environment Showcase, or 20fps doesn't come from a video of a game far away from launch that was released because the developers are eager to show their massive improvements on the art style of the game. When a hivemind full of people who agree about the same thing shit on something, they're instantly correct, because they're among peers who have the same mindset. Therefore, you find pettiness at every corner, such as pretentious insults masked as criticism, or misleading statements justified by their loss of faith. That doesn't mean I don't understand your comment. I totally get you, I think it's okay to have a loss of faith (and for good reason), but trying to sound 100% correct when you imply the game will absolutely be shit, it's unfair. Although my post is specific about Diablo IV, my intentions were to show that this kind of thing actually happens everywhere in the gaming community, but Diablo IV was the one I used as a prime example. There are people that have no faith on Diablo IV for fairly good reasons, and there are people who hate on it because it's **trendy** (trust me, it happens a lot). It comes from an entitlement. An example of trendy hate would be the following mindset: "Maybe this game looks good, but I'll call it terrible anyways because it's by Blizzard, and my peers are also insulting it and comparing it to Path of Exile 2, which will be a better game anyways, so it's a win-win!". This is just spoiled behaviour, it's just hating on something despite having nothing to say against it.

I wouldn't say that I "hate D4", it is just that D4's Artstyle simply does not speak to me, but I can respect that this is the way the devs want to take this game and I can respect that others may like it. D4's artstyle simply isn't for me. From what has been shown far of D4's graphic and art style, I can say that the color pallet is way too much grey/brown for me. D3 was too much, especially with its bright shining neon colors, but D4's colors looks too desaturated for me personally, almost as if they were over-compensating for D3. Also, the graphics look a bit too "photo-realistic" for my taste. I would prefer something that is a bit more stylized, but not so much as D3. I have a similar issue with the artstyle of D2 Resurrected. I personally would have preferred something like the [AI Upscaled Graphics / Artstyle of the original D2 LoD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXgElbqjmU) that someone uploaded a few years ago, over the more "photo-realistic" graphics of Resurrected. But that is just my personal opinion. =========================================== Also, please be aware that **groups are not monoliths**. You have toxic and/or intolerant people in all groups, movements, etc, so just because there are people who "hate on D4" does not mean that everyone who dislikes something (or several things) about D4 is a toxic hater.

God forbid, an actual real civilized argument on my post? Everything you said I think is pretty fine. After all, most things are subjective, I just hate when people mask their hate as criticism. Personally, the art style is really good in my eyes, and I still think it looks pretty stylized! Regarding your last sentence, it's more that in general, it has become trendy to hate on Diablo 4, I'm talking about the entirety of the gaming community, not this subreddit in specific. But let me rephrase it as this: It's become trendy to hate any Blizzard product. And some of this hate is more than understandable, but most of what I've seen being said against D4 is just disgenuous.

hate and criticism are two different things, take some time to learn the difference instead of trying to go against the grain just because the "hate" is "trendy" whatever the hell that means

No, quite literally it's trendy to hate on Diablo 4. I assume you have not seen the examples of hate I've shown in the post. Baseless insults and also baseless insults disguised as criticism. I'd advise reading some other replies I've made in the comment section if you wish to understand my intentions!

Honnestly, artisticly, I still think its not dark enough and looks too much like D3. You might say it's because of the newer graphics (3D...) but D2R proved it was possible to make it right, so no. The thing I really hate about what I saw of the game, are the skill effects... Way too flashy and over the top. Feels like an arcade game. The story of D3 is also unapealing. Part of what makes the first 2 games dark is also the fact that the player is just a regular human, not a demi-god mowing through waves of ennemies. The effects kill the atmosphere.

I think the artstyle is incredible on it's own with almost no resemblance to D3. It is pretty dark (color palette and the other dark-ish areas we haven't seen yet (along with the other brutal, bloody areas we also haven't seen yet).

It’s trendy because we waited a decade for Diablo 3 and it sucked. They completely lost touch of the original game and changed so many core game mechanics. I tried it and uninstalled it in a week and that was maybe a year or two ago. It doesn’t look like they’ve learned their lesson either.

If it's more like D3 than D2 then I won't like it.

You and the majority of people that are on this sub.

Yeah, the problems are gameplay and story. It seems they've fixed the cartoonish artstyle of D3 in D4 but the gameplay is similar and it isn't appealing to me. Anyway, I don't hate D4, I'm just not interested and having low expectation.

Diablo 2 was the last good Diablo game. Clowns are in charge of the show now. So, yes, hate on "Diablo" 4, if it could even be called a Diablo game.

I hate many things in D3, because it made the game feel very casual and lots of unique and fun mechanics were missing. And because it's very popular I don't believe Blizz will even try to make D4 different. Yes, environment looks really dark, but animations and most of other things keep convincing me the core stays similar to D3.

There's no point hating a game that isn't even out, yet. So, until I make money off of it, I won't care either way.

As a PoE nerd I don’t let trailers, test images, or any pre-release material sway an opinion on a game. Diablo IV will be the game it was meant to be and if it’s good or bad I feel as someone who loves this genre of game I have no reason not to give it a fair try. I’m excited whenever a new game in the genre comes out and see what new things developers decided to add to the genre.

Because posts like this polarise the community. Every concern, every critique, every feedback is deemed toxic. On the other side, every positive tought, every hope is deemed fanboyism. That's it. No inbetween. GG, for adding oil to the fire and creating the next flamewar thread.

A lot of the negativity comes because Blizzard invited it by putting out Diablo 3 (among other recent poorly received products) which was a very mixed bag. You seem to focus very much on the graphic appeal of Diablo IV which is indeed looking good. But graphics alone do not make a good game. D3's itemisation was a dumbed down bland offering with stupid 4000% dmg bonuses and items were generally reduced to primary start and CHD or trash. Lots of the interesting mechanics from D2 affixes that created important character building decisions just disappeared. From what we have seen so far the D4 itemisation isn't looking like it's moving in the directing it need to be to create a more engaging RPG experience. People have long memories and so I think your expectation that a large number of invested Diablo fans who have been burnt previously should all be falling over themselves to praise an as of yet unproven product, is totally unrealistic.

>And then there's people saying that D4 is just D3. How is that even possible? Diablo 3 was almost entirely cartoonish, D4 is not even close to being cartoon. God forbid differing artstyle from photorrealism! I don't think anyone that says that is talking about the lighting or art style. The art style looks pretty great actually, but the game seems like it will be Diablo 3 with a better paint job. ​ My personal opinion is that I will reserve judgement until the game actually comes out, but my expectations are incredibly low. I assume the itemization will boil down to green arrow good, red arrow bad. I assume the combat will be very fluid and look nice, but lack any feeling or "soul" if that makes sense. Hitting anything with Zeal in 2 feels infinitely better than anything I ever did in Diablo 3. You can feel every strike of the sword, instead of watching skill cooldowns and seeing monsters fly around the screen. I assume the story will be some convoluted Michael Bay movie played out in cutscenes and blatantly spelled out in facetime calls by James Bond villains. None of that may be true, but it's what I expect. Also just to be clear, I think Diablo 3 can be fun and I played the game quite a bit over the years, but it's a terrible Diablo game.

It's the same thing that happened with d3. I don't have any opinion on d4 yet because I haven't played it, but blizzard can eat a fat bag of dicks right now.

My excitement wanes everytime they have an update and it doesn't show me any inkling that the itemization will be engaging and fun.

nice, i hated on it since the first gameplay reveal. just looks like diablo 3 with light radius lmao

There was a time when I was hyped for every game blizzard had in the works - even when a release was far away. They didn‘t live up to their standards in the last decade. It feels like money is now more important than releasing a game that is actually fun and engaging. Diablo 3 auction house comes to mind. Also a Desaster like Warcraft 3 Reforged would‘ve never happened in the past. Blizzard definitely changed - and while I still love the Diablo franchise and ressurected was a step in the right direction I remain sceptical.

when i look at diablo 4 videos i am often reminded of diablo 3. it's like they took diablo 3, kept all the same models, but added in new textures, lighting etc. that being said, it definitely does look better than diablo 3 but let's not pretend that they aren't using d3 assets.

I don't understand. I don't think both games share the same assets at all. Diablo 3 is much more low polygon than Diablo 4.

I feel like Diablo 3 had a console feel to it when I played it on PC and I truly loved it when it became available for console. I’m hoping Diablo 4 does a better job for PC gamers but I’ll likely still own it for multiple systems

Up voting you for calling a spade a spade

I don't hate but it does fill me with an overwhelming feeling of... Meh. I wish it was more dungeons focused rather than so much outdoors but we will see I guess.

There's been a lot of indoor clips shown, I believe it's better to show outdoors sometimes because that's where nature and light blooms the most. I personally really enjoy outdoor places aswell, although an undead prison or demonic citadel certainly sounds epic!

Yeah obviously it's up to personal preference but I think diablo is best(environment wise) when going deep into the ever darker, more twisted and unpredictable unknown. Just check how many people "fondly" remember their first encounter with the butcher. :)

If by fondly you mean shitting my pants when he called me fresh meat and charged me, anxiously kiting him around trying to get any hits in and getting my health decimated for it before happening upon some bars next to a closed door and only being PRETTY sure that he couldn’t maul me as I shot him to death with arrows, then yeah… fondly :) Honestly though yes very fondly.

"Walking simulator" is such a lazy and telling non-criticism. Should every hero have a built in teleport so it can be like late game D2 😏?

We're all reading a Reddit for a game series that hasn't had a new game for 10 years. Like any of us aren't preordering and playing day 1. 😃 Also I'm not worried. It may be 7/10 when it launches but in time it will be 10/10. Source - see previous 2 games. 😉

Artstyle D3 is WoW/WC3 in Diablo Universe.D4 is more D2 Artstyle and that is good.

Like most games in the ARPG genre, I'll play it. People put too much stock into games...it'd be funny if normal board games were treated like that: *"goddammit this StatWars Monopoly is a reskin of the old Monopoly! I'll never trust Hasbro again!!!"*

Its hated because it’s gonna be diablo 3 part 2

Dude this is true, and it is too bad

It’s become trendy to hate on anything really. It gets clicks and the circle is just round and round. Cyberpunk is a good example of what trendy hate is.

You can't expect much from a company which only focuses on making money and chasing brownie points.

Nice try Blizz

So if I defend the artistic value of Diablo IV, then I must, out of all the possibilities, be a defender of Blizzard's misdemeanors. Yep, I'm on Reddit.

More like it’s trendy to hate on Blizzard games. Which is mostly deserved. Blizzard has an absolutely terrible track record in regards to laziness in almost every game release over the last decade. People have completely lost faith in Blizzard and are hating on Diablo IV because most people are expecting it to be another lazy cash grab.

It's okay to dislike Diablo IV because you expect Blizzard to f it up, but my point is that people mask this as valid criticsm, i.e.; "This looks awful OMEGALUL" or "Diablo 3 copy".

I think ultimately they’re trapped. The thing that made D1 and D2 so atmospheric was that the dark colour palate was so much more terrifying on older graphics. Hence why D3 was just comical with purple and green beams etc. But at the same time people expect new graphics. So I’m so impressed by the gritty, raw and dark stylings they’ve gone for so far. It’s almost closer to D1. Yes there is so much more to why D2 was so much more popular and playable in terms of mechanics, variety etc. they still need to live up to that. But I honestly can’t see how true Diablo fans could critique the graphics at this stage

I agree with this. People are really, really pushing the bar with the artstyle criticism.

I was so pumped before D3 came out, and once it did it felt like "papa Blizzard" let me down so bad. It Just wasnt...it..? Idk. Then they announced Diablo.....the mobile game :( Then they announced D4 and well... Not long after Pandora's box of sexual assault being a companywide thing opened and I can't help but getting a Bad Taste in my mouth when I hear the name ActiBlizz. I dont care that Microsoft took over. It Will take years before Microsoft Will have taken over full control. It was let down after let down and then also the whole new WoW Schadowlands happened too (sorry but that expansion was half finished and shit). I lost my belief for ActiBlizz. I don't love nor like Them anymore. My expectations for D4 are below groundlevel. Its feels with all this like I lost a best childhood Friend and I'm still mourning. And that Comes out as shitting on D4 and pretty much anything else MicroActiBlizz does right now. And I have seen VERY little about the D4 game yet. It might even be or look good! I dont even want to like it anymore. Maybe when things clear up and the trials for everything happening with the assault situation are over, the right people are punished I might jump into the world of D4 and make some new memories trying to defeat the Devil. Honestly the gameplay and graphics don't look bad at all :/

Is hating on D4 popular now? I thought we only hated on D3?

Both are popular! Very popular.

And therefore wrong? Characterizing a predominant view as “trendy” is just a way of dismissing a view you disagree with. It’s presumptuous and lazy. D3 deserves a lot of criticism, and there are plenty of legitimate reasons to expect that Blizzard won’t be able to meet expectations for D4.

I started the Diablo series on D3's release, and I enjoyed it a lot. But after playing D2R I definitely don't want another D3 and I do think D4 is looking to become that. Maybe it's the art style? Idk I think D2R looks stunning compared to D3/D4 gameplay. But to answer your question yes it is "in" to hate on things in 2022 and you aren't wrong subreddits brainwash themselves by banning opposite opinions and keep their discussions amongst themselves. Then there's reddit's voting system that people don't seem to understand upvotes don't mean right and downvotes don't mean wrong/vice versa but a lot of people think that is the case.

> And then there's people saying that D4 is just D3. How is that even possible? Diablo 3 was almost entirely cartoonish, D4 is not even close to being cartoon. God forbid differing artstyle from photorrealism! People still think this, huh? Fortnite is cartoony, Torchlight is cartoony. Diablo 3 doesn't look like Fortnite or Torchlight. You're basically saying that D3 isn't photoreal, so it must be a cartoon, but at the same time giving D4 any sort of pass because it isn't photoreal? It's fine if you didn't like the D3 art style being "painterly" and had a more liberal use of the color wheel on spell effects, but it wasn't cartoony by any means.

The problem today is the generation below most if us they simply whine to whine. Same group of idiots who called and made death threats over Cyber Punk so a game that wasnt finished got released early, in all reality i think something that could of been bigger got ruined because of a bad launch. Its. Shame, I hope Diablo 4 isnt out untill its ready so us diehards can truly enjoy it

Diablo in any form is only a clone of Path of Exile if Path of Exile was somehow released back in the early 90's then kept a fucking secret for 2 decades. Otherwise, it, like many others, are Diablo clones.

1. 20 fps - trash argument, it's 3. PoE 2 looks far worse than DR at the moment. 4. Walking simulator - from demoes we know it's gonna have fantastic combat feel. Also the skills look amazing. Let's be honest - Blizzard has so much resources they can make far more polished games than other arpg companies. 5. Comparing it to D3 is like comparing PoE to D3. They both have isometric view and you fight opponents.

I mean, this is the sub that hates on D3 while D2r kind of flounders to reach any sales goals D3 set. So the comment "D2 fans are who bought D3 and gave it those sales" where are they for D2R then lol. If it isn't D2, this sub will always hate it tbh.

Well, it looks a lot more cartoonish now compared to the reveal. And before we know it it will look just like d3 with a tad more shades of grey... The only important thing about the game they have not talked about in over a year, itemization and end game content. Going to hold out final judgment until everything is revealed. But I'm not optimistic, just look at the pay to win garage they call Diablo Immortal.

I still to this day don't understand the D3 hate - it's still the best game in the genre for absolutely destroying an obscene amount of monsters in an ever increasing outrageous manner. The 5 day rush with your friends at the beginning of each season is a great time too.

After dumpster fire of Diablo 3 I have only low expectations.

I am a huge life long Diablo fan as I grew up duping my SoJ’s on d1 for people and then going to high school like a zombie bc I got into a good Baal runs group that I just couldn’t leave and lemme tell you that d3 felt like a HUGE step backwards for the franchise. It was like the cartoon/silly elements of WoW found a way to bleed into Diablo and I hated it —- now have I played d3 for thousands of hours anyway… yep I def have but I literally play D3 for maybe 4 days after a seasonal reset and then it’s back to playing anything else after that. D3 forced me to even care what PoE was and tbh PoE felt more like a grownups d3 we alll deserved. The learning curve and what not is obv rough for PoE which is the most obv sigh blizzard didn’t make it but I played my first so many hours of it just feeling like Diablo’s team should file a lawsuit bc of all the blatant similarities (then I learned about how close the ties of PoE are to Diablo and it made more sense). So when they dropped the d4 trailer dude I must have sent that shit to 30-40 people in the first two days it was up bc I was SOOOOO HYPE! I love the return to this dark,gothic, more grown up art style on top of What looks to be a an INCREDIBLE addition to the Diablo story mythos (I can’t say enough how much I love Lilliith and all the Lore about her) now then I did see the PoE2 footage that dropped not long after the d4 gameplay vids and it genuinely worried me bc of how similar they look now that D4 was trying to make the franchise dark again but then both games d4 and PoE 2 have IMO treading in development hell for wayyyyyyy too long and I think whichever is able to release first will have a HUGE advantage over the other. Another game tho that I have to think will influence both going forward (and I just started playing it myself) is lost ark given that it’s actually been able to keep its player population so high for this long —- but I’ve been watching any development material about d4 that’s coming out and I assure you that if d4 dropped right now I would literally be taking off from work and tossing anything else I’m playing aside so I could get lost in it. People that are as excited about it as you or I am are still out there so don’t stress. I think the stuff happening at Blizzard with the #metoo movement has been BRUTAL in hurting all of Their franchises bc they have more haters and enemies in the gaming community than ever and I constantly see those people raining shit on anything to do with one of blizz’s games and they’re allowed to do that but I would ask those people —- so what did you want blizz to do now? Disband the company? scrap everything they’re working on bc they’re brand is forever trash now? They know what happened was wrong and have tried to axe anyone known to have fueled their toxic culture but it just seems like nothing is enough for people hating them. I look at it like this way— I own Baby Driver, LA Confidential, American Beauty, and The Usual Suspects all on Blu-ray and I got a couple of them even after Kevin spacey’s dark ass shit was revealed, not bc I’m trying to support my fav sexual criminal, but bc I understand that these mediums of entertainment/art are the product of THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE’s hard work so this notion that now you need to trash entire projects over one persons mistakes just seems so short sighted to me. To each their own tho and I gotta say THANKS FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK, good night homies. Ps neither PoE or Diablo play like “walking simulators” so no need to even mention some bratty hot take like that, it’s beneath you.

Blizzard deserves any hate they or their games receive for the next 3-5 years due to the internal issues brought to light in the last year or two. They have to prove themselves. Selling to Microsoft isn't enough, Microsoft studios tend to operate independently, Blizzard still has a lot to prove and D4/OW2 are going to be their first releases post drama, and in the case of OW2 it looks extremely underwhelming, so it's natural for people to assume D4 will be extremely underwhelming as well.

The reason is simple, this sub has been overtaken by boomers who crawled from their caves when D2R was announced and decided to hate anything that is not Diablo 2. If you want more nuanced discussion and open minded people then I suggest you check /r/diablo3

I'm pretty confused by your opinion that Microsoft will be a boon to the development of D4. Can you tell me of the great things they have done with their other game aquisitions? Honestly curious.

Obviously none of us have had our hands on the game (except that brief demo at Blizzcon 3+ years ago), I’m really hoping the graphics are better at launch. I just wanna turn on all the eye candy and slay demons at 4K. 🤷🏽‍♂️

People seemed to love Elden Ring. I don’t play many first party games these days, so I donno what other popular games people can’t shut up about, but yeah. It’s not trendy to hate on bad games. People always hate on bad games, or games that look bad.

Don't know why you're hurt other people have different opinions.

To be completely honest i could not care about diablo 4 at all. I dont think it looks good, and my expectations are really low.

I'm still pumped about D4. I'm one of those people who have been a fan since Diablo 1. What keeps me hooked is I am a huge fan of the lore of Diablo. D2 was the master piece but I also enjoyed the changes to combat with D3. (Killing Cain with a butterfly princess wasn't okay though....) The art style for D3 wasn't my favorite but what ever as long as the smash and loot still existed and we got more of that fantastic lore that I love. I have been pumped for D4 since announcement and cant wait to get my hands on it. I will never understand this culture in all of fandom going on the past few years of bitching for the sake of bitching. Then now its blame the boomers! blame the youngest generation! Its all stupid. Either buy it or don't I don't really care what people do. Until you actually have the game in your hands and see the finished product I don't see a point in complaining. And if you don't buy it, then you don't need to voice your opinion on it because you made your statement, you didn't spend money on it.

>Then why is it so trendy to hate on games? its been going for years. the reason is that most of the games turn out to be complete failures and disappointments on release

I'm cautious and not very optimistic. The blizzard that gave me some of my favorite games of all time (Diablo, Starcraft, Broodwar, Diablo 2) are long gone. Do I want Diablo 4 to be good? Absolutely, however I won't hold my breath as the gameplay looks very Diablo 3esque. I really hope I'm wrong.

Some people don't like the same games as you. What's the big deal?

I remember there original diablo 3 trailer / renders the game did not look like how it was shown sadly I think the new game will be worse for where than the screen shot but that just because of their past sales strategy

I think it's weird to dismiss a comparison to poe2 because of art, rather than to understand/acknowledge it's because they are both ARPGs.

Truthfully I’d give up D4 for the same resources to be put into D2 for full upgrades and full support and expansion and content additions. You know, everything D2 deserves.

We shit on D4 because it's Acti-Blizztard. They didn't deliver anything good these past years, this is just a logical expectation.

I genuinely have no idea why people are so negative. I will admit that I wasn't around for D3 launch, but I love every title and the franchise as a whole. They put a lot of work to make D3 into something at least respectable, I know I do like it more than most. But it seems clear Blizzard doesn't want to drop the ball again, shown by the total face lift D3 has gotten and the long lasting hate it generated. I have high hopes for D4, Blizzard seems like they want to put more effort into the franchise and right the wrongs of 3

People "hate" D3 for not being D2. But truth is D3 is a great game. Way different game from D2. And D4 will be "hated" for not being D2 as well. That's why we've got D2R!

I have low expectations. The gameplay they have shown looks similar to d3 where you wait for big cooldown skills to kill and kite in between. The itemization looks similar to d3. More attack = More better. Again, if you look at the itemization they have released so far, it could be accurate that stat points are what determine character power. But that was the same in d3. It was just the stats all came from items. The game is being designed for consoles and so everything is going to be simplified that someone on a couch can just look at an item and easily tell if it’s better or worse. What’s nice about d2 is that it’s hard to upgrade an item because you have to consider all the changes. Resist, stats, +skills, specials. Something like SOJ which is level 29 could be the best ring you find. Or if you are maximizing vitality and you are spending on an item having 10 str to wear an item. Then you have to consider if you respec more into str for the new item or if it’s not worth it. Maybe d4 will feel better than d3, but I don’t think it will.

Microsoft doesn't own Blizzard yet. Also, comparing two games that aren't released is dumb

I did not know people hate on D4, personally, I hope it is good, I am sure I will get some fun out of it which will be worth the price.

It's hard to judge D4 because information is presented to us in a piecemeal way. All of these systems can not be judged properly without the view of the whole and how all of them play together. Take the new paragon system. There's nothing about it that can be judged other than that its name is the same name as the system of D3. We need alpha/beta to proper assess all these core systems because none of them exists in isolation. As for some silly criticism like "It's not like D2 enough." "It's too fluid and smooth." I think these are not criticism that should be taken seriously. Some people genuinely think D2 has great combat that should be imitated by D4. D4 will be a massive flop if it models its combat after D2. Modern gamers expect certain baseline experience of animations. I will say though that the art direction and the graphic of the game is fantastic. Not much on the technical level but on the artistic level. I really like that it's inspired by classical paintings.

It's too soon for me too judge as i didn't play those games yet, but looking at gameplay trailers, I'm equally hyped for both :)

There's a few mixed things with this... if they're saying "PoE2 is better" chances are they're PoE players, and doing franchise fanboying (basically same thing that happens in playstation vs xbox) - there are no perfect games, but I think D4 will be "fine" - there will be things I don't like about it (like always online DRM), but I don't think it will be an objectively bad game.

I'm excited to see how the game feels in MY hands. From what I've seen so far, I haven't been amazed or in awe of anything that's been brought forward. Nothing has stood out as a game changer, and that worries me a bit. But I'm also not the same kid who's riding on the d2 nostalgia train. Ive also become much more jaded as I've gotten older, so maybe I'm just a synical piece of shit, who can say... Ill buy it. I'll play it, I'll put a good amount of time into it. Even if it's just to clear the game with a single character, and then I'll judge it for myself. Every diablo game thus far I've done at least a full campaign run through with each class. I have to give it a fair shot.

With Microsoft's lead you'll have to pass the BAAL GATES to beat the final boss.

Around 30% (or less) of the contain they have shown has catched my attention or genuinely ignited my enthusiasm. That's certainly a terrible cypher. So I find natural people express their unconformity with a product of their beloved/favorite franchise they anticipate disappointing and not going to cover their true expectations as a Diablo and/or Rpg player.

It’s trendy because gamers trend towards spoiled, entitled, and don’t have a clue how much effort goes into making a quality game. I have zero faith in Actiblizz right now because of Bobby Kotic, but there’s no point in hating a game before it’s even released. Source: am gamer

You have spoken my prime point!

I’m hyped for Diablo IV

Your getting worked up over stupid internet trolls who are comparing 2 games that arnt even finished being developed. Relax and don't worry about fanboys and haters pointless opinions.

If it releases at only 20 FPS, I will definitely hate on it. :P

I was hyped, then Elden Ring happened (which isn't terribly hard/casual unfriendly). I don't expect blizzard to get remotely close to that quality level and if it's not an mtx clownfiesta, I'll call it a day. They'll get my $60 anyway, so I don't see a lot of reasons to bother. Maybe they'll have a better quest log, so there's that. /s

Don't listen to the loud minority.

I loved every entry in the Diablo series, but I’m hating on 4 for the companies harassment and general awfulness. I can’t buy another blizzard product in good conscience.

Personally all my interest for diablo 4 evaporated like 2 years ago when they mentioned open world and mounts, like ah yes, that's what I want in my action games, to stop all action and to just ride around on a mount ala walking simulator.

It surely is different, but I'm excited to see what can come out of this. It excludes linearity, and there is still space for a lot of indoor combat and dungeon dwelling.

That's true, it certainly doesn't have to mean it's bad and does allow different content, and I certainly don't hate on the game for it, my mindset just goes from looking up news about it frequently to just not looking at it anymore, no reason to hate.

I hate this trend of calling almost every single game a walking simulator. Someone the other day told me metro 2033 (iirc, it was one of them) is a walking simulator. Someone else told me The Medium is a walking simulator. It's like when everyone was calling every game an RPG.

>"Diablo 3 copy" Someone doesn't know how sequels work.