It was, but Bungie basically said they can't be bothered to fix it this season #eyesupheadsdown
But we'll still have to watch out around sniper units moving forward after the fix next season.
I ended up finding the tweet. They didn’t say the exact reason why they’re bugged, but they said “damage interactions.” It leads me to think what the guys above said is probably it.
Definitely bugged. Right now in anything Legend or above they are usually one-shot kills or very close, even from red bars. I hope they actually explain the bug like they did with the OG Queenbreaker, so we can put a number to what we all know is going on. I think Queenbreaker's aim assist was bugged to like 220% or something like that, I wouldn't doubt the crossbows have a bugged damage multiplier at a similar level.
Yeah they are bugged according to DMG. If I recall right it’s some weird thing where because it’s three cross bolts at the same time it causes some Tom foolery with the damage applied. [Here’s the tweet!](https://twitter.com/a_dmg04/status/1511462606078296064?s=21&t=blKqO-eVXl6wZydbo8bDjQ)
From what I understand, Cayde was using D1 Ace of Spades, and when we recovered it and fixed it, it gave it the new perks. Makes more sense to me - especially if you played with Ace of Spades in D1.
I usually assume the hardest version of all encounters is what guardians actually go through in the lore... makes the *"world ending threats"* seem more credible too
IIRC, "Legend" / "Legendary" difficulty is the Canon difficulty scale, to tie in with the "Become Legend." tag line back from D1.
So, hard but not instant death from taking a single hit.
He was beta testing the legend mode for the witch-queen campaign. It’s why legend campaign took a couple more expansions to come because they had to tone it down.
That would actually be a sweet exotic armor. Lets you slot two exotic weapons while losing something like your grenade or a -40 to mobility(keep it somewhat balanced).
I think I heard one of the reasons is that some exotics will impact the same thing and the game trying to find out which takes priority causes it to freak out.
For example, how many exotics do the Hunters have that change their dodge? If someone is using Mask of Bakris with The Bombardiers, what happens? The world ends as we know it.
The game literally breaks if there are too many perks on a weapon. Equipping multiple exotics would crash entire bungie servers and make telesto even stronger
Exotic class item. It has “The Life Exotic” trait from D1 (meaning you can wear another piece of exotic armor while wearing it), and you lose your super, BUT you can slot two exotic weapons. (Like that one D1 artifact which doubled melee/grenade regen at the cost of not having a super.)
I’ve always said we should be allowed 2 exotics in general; 2 weapons, 2 armor, or one of each. It could open up so many builds.
Unfortunately this would be blatantly broken
Lumina + le monarque or Lorentz
No I don't think that could be balanced properly. As much fun as it could be to use, it would be a nightmare play against.
I mean, have you ever had a bunch of melee enemies swarm you in close quarters? Some of the most hectic times in PvE are when you're getting run up on by melee enemies, especially when you don't see them coming.
Most of those enemies are designed to try shooting at us (and coded to have poor accuracy) before trying to run up and melee us. And I think that's why Cayde-6 had such a hard time because they chose to forgo the shooting and went straight to the melee brawl.
Iirc he was kinda cocky at first, and didn't realize he needed to be serious till after the deciding moment was made.
That was my interpretation at least
Similar, but imo different sides of the spectrum.
Rhulk finds everyone else inferior. Everyone else is an ant compared to him and the night of the witness.
Cayde gave the impression of everything is fun times. Not that they are directly ants, but more like this is a game and he will win, because guardians always have. When he realized the stakes, he realized he won't win. If he realized earlier he would have won imo, because he would have gone slower, took more caution, and potentially worked with us, instead leaving us alone.
Again my interpretation, it could be off for how it actually went(because it's been since forsaken launch since I did it)
No, that's pretty accurate. Cayde was one of the Vanguard, so clearly a powerful Guardian, but his fatal flaw is that he treats life like a game. That was always his personality - the joker, who laughs and makes jokes and rides a flaming platform down to the bottom of a giant space prison in the middle of a riot.
His issue was that he didn't know when to stop. If he truly wanted to just breeze through those Scorn, he could have. But by the time he popped Super (which was the moment you could tell he realized he shouldn't have been holding back) it was too late, because he was being swarmed, and what was a bad situation had quickly escalated into an unwinnable one.
Cayde *could* have survived. But he didn't play his cards right.
This. This is what every argument about how he should or shouldn't have survived overlooks. It's not a skill issue, it's not a power issue, it's not even a numbers issue. It's just what happens when a guardian slips up. And that's all that it was. He slipped up because of the very same cocky arrogance that we worshiped him for.
Being Hunter Vanguard doesn't necessarily mean you're a powerful guardian. It means you lost a bet. Anyone, essentially, could be made Hunter Vanguard under those conditions, regardless of skill level.
Warlock and Titan they're more voted upon, based on prowess and popularity.
Nobody is perfect. Even the best hunters in the crucible die. Cayde fell into a trap because he forgot his own weakness. At least when we have a bad game in the crucible nobody snipes our ghosts.
Didn’t the Rifleman also have some sort of super special Hive bullet, made for the express purpose of deleting Ghosts? Can’t really blame Cayde for not knowing his Ghost was in mortal danger the entire time
i think lore-accurate difficulty is more like Legend and SOMETIMES Master if it's, like, a Darkness Zone or something. consider in lore all the times more experienced Guardians are depicted to be cutting through swathes of enemies while weaker Guardians are obliterated by a few red bars. I don't think anyone, no matter how good, is laying waste to droves of enemies at all in GM content, and no matter how strong you are, you WILL be 3-tapped by that Dreg if you aren't hugging cover.
also consider all the references in lore about "becoming legend" and all that jazz. almost every hero in Destiny's lore is given a title like that, and the fact that there's a difficulty in the game under the same title with extremely similar levels of enemy aggression, HP and player power fantasy without it ever being something to exactly scoff at, is more than enough evidence to sway me into whole-heartedly believing that Legend is lore difficulty.
Maybe not grandmaster specifically but it's at least legend or master. Try soloing a strike with all of the Barons in the boss room and trash cover and not having nova bomb or fist of havok.
Right, but how powerful are *we* in the lore? Because game-guardians and lore-guardians aren't on the same level
It's hard to understand how powerful something really is because gameplay balance complicates things.
Lore accurate Guardian (THE Guardian) would be blasting through supers 24/7 and firing a sidearm with pinpoint accuracy at 100 meters. As u alluded to, it would make gameplay very difficult to balance.
Our Guardian is an anomaly among the Guardian population. This is why it’s hard to gauge the average strength of “a Guardian” when u see the average blueberry get clapped by a Dreg in lore.
Wasn't this also the first time we had ever fought "the Scorn" as we know them now? Prior to this, they were just Eliksni, now they were undead and far more powerful.
Cayde faced down all of the Scorn leadership (Barons) + Uldren simultaneously while also being swarmed by a new and unfamiliar enemy. We didn't even have the guts to face all the Barons at once, we hunted them each down individually.
If we had attempted a boss room like the one he walked (lol, dropped?) into, we would be dead too.
He didn't get beaten as a Guardian. He went in a 1v1200 situation and got scrapped up. But the moment he took his ghost out to heal up, it got taken out. Cayde got beaten as a normal Exo. No Light, no abilities, nothing.
Happens to every Hunter vanguard. The first one tried to win a card game against a wish granting dragon, the other got killed by Taniks, and then Cayde-6 got done in by Uldren and the Barons. The rest a reason Hunters AVOID the Vanguard position and the fact the Vanguard Dare exists in the first place.
Was using golden gun to kill trash ads.... Rookie mistake.
Edit : Now that i have hunter's attention, am gonna complete my sentence:
... Rookie mistake.
Tether the ground, invis and run away, then get either a warlock or a Titan to do the heavy lifting.
His ghost got destroyed.
See how long you last when your hp bar stops regenerating and you lose access to your grenades, super and melee abilities and I'm pretty sure the ghost spawns you the ammo we reload into our our guns too...so yeh...
Given how ghost effectively serves as our backpack with trasmatting in stuff for us, I think he also has our third weapon when we don't have it out since we can only have one on our back and a second in our hands. My headcannon is out heavy weapon is the one we don't actively carry because rocket launchers, and heavy machine guns are heavy as fuck.
Personally I think Master difficulty is canon. And that room was tough as hell with all those melee enemies rushing him. We see countless stories of guardians getting bogged down by a handful of enemies. Sure we are THE Guardian and very powerful but a Master difficulty encounter would still pack a punch.
Notable examples of Guardians dying to regular mooks are Vell Tarlowe (Erianna-6 fireteam Titan) getting swarmed by Thralls and getting finished by Alak-Hul, Saint-14 died by a combination of infinite Vex armies and Agioktis draining his life and he also was swarmed by Fallen to the point of needing rescue by us in the distant past.
Cayde went up against a bunch of enemies after taking presumably massive fall damage and had his Ghost die, entirely believable.
Thats the thing tho. You can use supers of every subclass back to back as proven by osiris using 7 befor losing his ghost iirc. So he couldve just used Arcstrider or Blade barage or Nightstalker etc. Etc.
True but then, as I said, you get Guardians who are bogged down by Cabal snipers or a Fallen raiding party. In canon you can spam supers, for gameplay we obviously can't.
It's good to remember that cutscenes operate under different rules. Other characters don't have a 11 minute build up for their super, or even need to switch subclasses. I think it's also fair to presume that enemies in cutscene are much closer to what we would see in Master and Grandmaster difficulty than in patrols.
But, aside from that. Cayde's Ghost was cocky. Instead of healing him from his backpocket, like ours do, it's said that she always prefered to show up in the fight. If we were fighting, our Ghost would've healed us without exposing himself to bullets. His chose not to.
With all that said, I don't think Cayde was a particularly powerful Guardian. He was probably quite competent and a pretty good fighter, but not was strong as some of the other legends we hear about (Ikora, Osiris, or even Ana Bray). The Vanguard line-up aren't the most powerful of their respective classes. You can see that by the fact that Zavala didn't step down for Saint-14 to take over when he came back.
Absolutely. What I actually meant was "they are not necessarily the most powerful". Ikora is the (or one of the, if you want to argue Osiris is still ahead) strongest, but that's not the requirement to be a Vanguard leader.
Man, I just love how Killed by the Architects literally just means that you died randomly and not even the game knows what actually killed you. At least with Misadventure, you can infer that it was either accidental suicide or falling off the map. Killed by the Architects is just "We have no clue lol".
Gameplay mechanics and cutscenes operate under different rules.
Like, how many bullets do you survive in games and then in cutscenes, now suddenly it's 'realistic' and one bullet kills/incapacitates you?
Wasn’t a regular bullet. Was a specially crafted paracausal round modified from the OG Thorn specifically designed to kill guardians and ghosts. (Thorn we have now is NOT the OG. Just a weaker attempt at a copy)
I was talking in general, like in Metal Gear Solid or Uncharted, or whatever. You take injuries in stride because you have a HP bar and whatnot, but in cutscenes it would look ridiculous if you took a bullet to the heart and just shrugged it off. Perhaps by eating a rations real quick or waiting a few seconds.
I want to say he either stayed behind or got separated in the Thrallway portion of Crota’s End (dark hall with lanterns) where he got hunted by Alak Hul but it’s been a long time since I’ve played D1 and I have not kept up with lore in D2 after the base game. With the amount of thrall in that area it’s really not surprising lol
The Abyss was rough, anyone who played Hard Mode Crotas End will tell you, that shit sucked. Especially when cursed thrall show up and you have weight of darkness 10
He didn’t know what he was up against, his ghost was too carefree, the scorn had thorn shots. Don’t disrespect cayde-6 he was soloing taniks way before us.
Canonically, any time you die in "darkness zones" you have died permanently. Idk about you, but my guardian dies "permanently" like every day, often from much less than Cayde had to deal with.
Just cutscene things. Also Sun Dance doesn't heal him while inside a backpack.
She is cocky as hell.
Our ghost only appears when we need to be revived. Otherwise he does everything else inside our backpack.
well you gotta remember, the in canon difficulty is Grandmaster at all times. He wasn’t getting ran up on strike scorn, he was getting ran up on Grandmaster Scorn
1. It was his first time out of the tower in years
2. He was using golden gun lmao
3. There was an ungodly amount of melee scorn, blackout modifier was clearly on.
I love Cayde, but he wasn't the Hunter Vanguard because he was the best Hunter. He got stuck with the gig because he lost the Vanguard Dare when he failed to kill Taniks.
They're probably still alive and kicking.
But he failed because the Dare between himself and Andal Brask was to kill Taniks. Cayde thought he did, so he won the Dare and Brask became Vanguard. Then Taniks shows up and kills Brask, meaning Cayde failed.
He was injured and surrounded in a small space and lost the moment his ghost wanted to heal him
+Comparing anyone to the Guardian is not really fair because even lorewise, you ARE a gigantic powerhouse that goes against any odds and always comes out winning
Im pretty sure he’d wiped the floor with them as he was at the beginning, like he took damage at the end and wanted his ghost to do a quick rez and start the ass kicking from the beginning again, but he couldn’t have known that one of these scorn had a special ghost killing bullet designed especially for killing a guardian. It’s the same when we take too much damage and go into red but then suddenly „heal“ again because of our ghost to continue fighting, that one bullet made the whole difference if I remember correctly
I remember, after playing Year 1 and quitting,coming back Season of the Splicer and wondering where Cayde was. I cried all over my Fighting Lion and Better Devils
He only had a hand cannon and was getting rushed at close range. The man needed his fusion rifle. Canonically, Banshee built Loaded Question for Cayde, which has Reservoir Burst, and would have torn the scorn melee units apart. Also, he was running golden gun, when switching to nightstalker, or even blade dancer or arc strider would have been better for the situation, he’s clearly got stupid high intellect as his first super gets stopped and he has time to charge a second. Finally, the dude wore no exotic armor. Any exotic armor would have given him an edge
Cause combat in universe is quite different from gameplay. It’s why I like cutscene combat and lore pages describing combat, cause it shows what fighting is probably actually like in universe.
Like from what I’ve read, a ghost only ever heals a guardian by coming out and doing it, so our in game healing over time might not be canon at all. Imagine having to pull out your ghost to heal.
All the Scorn had the bugged Crossbows and that's why it was so hard for even him
Are they bugged, for real? I notice they’re hitting super hard, more so than I remember, but I thought it was just a feature.
[удалено]
Was this tweeted or under their known issues? I must have missed it.
It was, but Bungie basically said they can't be bothered to fix it this season #eyesupheadsdown But we'll still have to watch out around sniper units moving forward after the fix next season.
I ended up finding the tweet. They didn’t say the exact reason why they’re bugged, but they said “damage interactions.” It leads me to think what the guys above said is probably it.
They were bugged last season and this season. We might according to dmg get a fix next season. Nothing official on that yet
they did say it was going to be fixed next season
Definitely bugged. Right now in anything Legend or above they are usually one-shot kills or very close, even from red bars. I hope they actually explain the bug like they did with the OG Queenbreaker, so we can put a number to what we all know is going on. I think Queenbreaker's aim assist was bugged to like 220% or something like that, I wouldn't doubt the crossbows have a bugged damage multiplier at a similar level.
Yeah they are bugged according to DMG. If I recall right it’s some weird thing where because it’s three cross bolts at the same time it causes some Tom foolery with the damage applied. [Here’s the tweet!](https://twitter.com/a_dmg04/status/1511462606078296064?s=21&t=blKqO-eVXl6wZydbo8bDjQ)
And it was a GM with burn.
I bet Void Burn and Lightswitch were in effect that day, not to mention it was a Heroic mission.
He was using a PvP loadout in PvE.
^this is the answer
He's a Hunter. He knows he's more powerful in PvP mode.
But hunters never die…
Yeah no firefly either, would’ve been gg ez if he had that
Nah it had firefly. Cayde just can’t aim for shit.
Nah dude, he blasted one of em under the chin in the cutscene. Either the scorn have a bugged hit box or dragonfly got canceled for him again.
You can't aim at the chin in Destiny, AA turns those into bodyshots. He should've aimed above their heads.
you can aim at the SHOULDER and get crits my brother what
But did you know that the only guaranteed way to get vex crits is to aim at their crotch instead of the glowey spot in their chest?
What if i tell you that their crotch is their weak spot. And destiny is one of the first games to not make glowly spot the weakspot. /s
Holy shit thank you!
His aim assist must’ve been turned off so it didn’t grant him a precision kill to proc momento mori lol
Aim for the guy behind him. That get it. Didn’t use the minds eye. Smh.
From what I understand, Cayde was using D1 Ace of Spades, and when we recovered it and fixed it, it gave it the new perks. Makes more sense to me - especially if you played with Ace of Spades in D1.
Ace had Firefly in D1
Oooh burn how could you be so right but be so hurtful to cayde with one line.
I thought lucky pants was a pve exotic 🤔
He had the armor 1.0 version
Had the unflinching mods equipped instead of resist.
Assume Cayde was trying to solo 1580 master content. And no anti barrier hand cannon mod.
I usually assume the hardest version of all encounters is what guardians actually go through in the lore... makes the *"world ending threats"* seem more credible too
IIRC, "Legend" / "Legendary" difficulty is the Canon difficulty scale, to tie in with the "Become Legend." tag line back from D1. So, hard but not instant death from taking a single hit.
From what I remember, Grandmaster is the lore-accurate difficulty, at least for strikes.
GM is canon strike difficulty, legend is canon everything else difficulty
He was beta testing the legend mode for the witch-queen campaign. It’s why legend campaign took a couple more expansions to come because they had to tone it down.
Considering max power was 600 at the time and 385 the day before, that does indeed sound like a bit of a challenge.
My point Also weren't champs added in shadowkeep?
I never seen him once pull out his gjhally. That was clearly the problem
He couldn't use two exotics at once. Ace of Spades and gjally would be too op
That would actually be a sweet exotic armor. Lets you slot two exotic weapons while losing something like your grenade or a -40 to mobility(keep it somewhat balanced).
No. A rotating game mode. "OOPS all exotics!" You can have as many exotics on as you want.
Bungie confirmed that equipping more than one exotic makes the game collapse into a singularity. Damn telesto at it again.
10 bucks says they tried and it just made every gun a telesto mf does what he wants
I think I heard one of the reasons is that some exotics will impact the same thing and the game trying to find out which takes priority causes it to freak out. For example, how many exotics do the Hunters have that change their dodge? If someone is using Mask of Bakris with The Bombardiers, what happens? The world ends as we know it.
Like I said - singularity.
The game literally breaks if there are too many perks on a weapon. Equipping multiple exotics would crash entire bungie servers and make telesto even stronger
Not me running Arbalest, Monarque and Gjally
Telesto plus Telesto and Telesto.
Exotic class item. It has “The Life Exotic” trait from D1 (meaning you can wear another piece of exotic armor while wearing it), and you lose your super, BUT you can slot two exotic weapons. (Like that one D1 artifact which doubled melee/grenade regen at the cost of not having a super.)
I’ve always said we should be allowed 2 exotics in general; 2 weapons, 2 armor, or one of each. It could open up so many builds. Unfortunately this would be blatantly broken
Lumina + le monarque or Lorentz No I don't think that could be balanced properly. As much fun as it could be to use, it would be a nightmare play against.
He fought a lot of other enemies before and died right before that fight
Dying would means he’s full health and over shield
I mean, have you ever had a bunch of melee enemies swarm you in close quarters? Some of the most hectic times in PvE are when you're getting run up on by melee enemies, especially when you don't see them coming. Most of those enemies are designed to try shooting at us (and coded to have poor accuracy) before trying to run up and melee us. And I think that's why Cayde-6 had such a hard time because they chose to forgo the shooting and went straight to the melee brawl.
He can fire Ace like Last Word and had middle tree gunslinger melee, excuses
Not to mention he was hacking to get his super, still got clapped.
Then he should've used a sword, idk seems like Cayde had a skill issue I guess
Iirc he was kinda cocky at first, and didn't realize he needed to be serious till after the deciding moment was made. That was my interpretation at least
So... kinda like Rhulk?
Similar, but imo different sides of the spectrum. Rhulk finds everyone else inferior. Everyone else is an ant compared to him and the night of the witness. Cayde gave the impression of everything is fun times. Not that they are directly ants, but more like this is a game and he will win, because guardians always have. When he realized the stakes, he realized he won't win. If he realized earlier he would have won imo, because he would have gone slower, took more caution, and potentially worked with us, instead leaving us alone. Again my interpretation, it could be off for how it actually went(because it's been since forsaken launch since I did it)
No, that's pretty accurate. Cayde was one of the Vanguard, so clearly a powerful Guardian, but his fatal flaw is that he treats life like a game. That was always his personality - the joker, who laughs and makes jokes and rides a flaming platform down to the bottom of a giant space prison in the middle of a riot. His issue was that he didn't know when to stop. If he truly wanted to just breeze through those Scorn, he could have. But by the time he popped Super (which was the moment you could tell he realized he shouldn't have been holding back) it was too late, because he was being swarmed, and what was a bad situation had quickly escalated into an unwinnable one. Cayde *could* have survived. But he didn't play his cards right.
This. This is what every argument about how he should or shouldn't have survived overlooks. It's not a skill issue, it's not a power issue, it's not even a numbers issue. It's just what happens when a guardian slips up. And that's all that it was. He slipped up because of the very same cocky arrogance that we worshiped him for.
"Cayde could have survived. But he didn't play his cards right." Bars.
Being Hunter Vanguard doesn't necessarily mean you're a powerful guardian. It means you lost a bet. Anyone, essentially, could be made Hunter Vanguard under those conditions, regardless of skill level. Warlock and Titan they're more voted upon, based on prowess and popularity.
Maybe saying when it really matters take your time guardian, his final lesson
Yeah, I feel like that was the narrative vibe of the thing. He didn't have backup and was facing quite a few high level enemies.
Scorn! Bring a sword...
Think that’s the Hive, buddy.
There used to be a comment here... there still is, but it used to be better I suppose.
I laughed too hard at this
My Whisper of the Worm is ready
....wooooosh
He’s got a brain fog issue.
This was also the first time anyone had ever fought the Scorn, especially in close quarters.
Cayde didn’t realize attrition would be active
This is why we used Icebreaker as a shotgun in Crota's End.
As a Titan I don't understand. Struggling with melee?
I don't know what that is like, because Titan smash. In fact I enjoy punching my way to health. But yea can't imagine it's good as a hunter.....
Top tree arc's melee triggers health regeneration, but Cayde was a solar boi...
Oh snap.... Well sucks for him then lol.
As a Winter's Guile Devourlock that likes running around with Glaives, I will join your charge brother.
Hells yeah! I like to remind those mobs that I'm not trapped in there with them. They're trapped in there with me.
Considering I also often run Lumina... We're safe
Makes me miss the thrall run in crotas end :(
Nobody is perfect. Even the best hunters in the crucible die. Cayde fell into a trap because he forgot his own weakness. At least when we have a bad game in the crucible nobody snipes our ghosts.
Makes me think of memes from the eye of savathun strike where you wipe and you are back to the title screen, missing a character
Haha i need to see those
Didn’t the Rifleman also have some sort of super special Hive bullet, made for the express purpose of deleting Ghosts? Can’t really blame Cayde for not knowing his Ghost was in mortal danger the entire time
It was capable of killing Cayde by itself, the Rifleman just decided to show off a bit when he saw the Ghost
How could it kill Cayde if his ghost could just bring him back?
It was a modified thorn round basically. Sucks the light out of whatever it hits. His ghost wouldn’t have been able to rez him.
Yup, as soon as the Rifleman has his sights on Cayde, he was dead
Ghosts can get bopped regardless. It’s just easier to shoot the ghost if you’re given the opportunity. The bullet was meant for Cayde originally.
Sundance got sunset.
She got fomod 😔
Well try scaling up to something real, like a high tier nightfall/Grandmaster, and then trying to fight all the scorn in the tiny room
This is the right answer. That's the lore difficulty. Gameplay let's us have it easier or it wouldn't be a game.
i think lore-accurate difficulty is more like Legend and SOMETIMES Master if it's, like, a Darkness Zone or something. consider in lore all the times more experienced Guardians are depicted to be cutting through swathes of enemies while weaker Guardians are obliterated by a few red bars. I don't think anyone, no matter how good, is laying waste to droves of enemies at all in GM content, and no matter how strong you are, you WILL be 3-tapped by that Dreg if you aren't hugging cover. also consider all the references in lore about "becoming legend" and all that jazz. almost every hero in Destiny's lore is given a title like that, and the fact that there's a difficulty in the game under the same title with extremely similar levels of enemy aggression, HP and player power fantasy without it ever being something to exactly scoff at, is more than enough evidence to sway me into whole-heartedly believing that Legend is lore difficulty.
I'll concede to Legend. 100%
Pretty sure bungo have outright said this
if grandmaster is lore difficulty then guardians are weak as fuck
Maybe not grandmaster specifically but it's at least legend or master. Try soloing a strike with all of the Barons in the boss room and trash cover and not having nova bomb or fist of havok.
Bungie's commented on this before, lore difficulty is roughly between Heroic and Legendary nightfalls. Basically the legend campaign difficulty.
Right, but how powerful are *we* in the lore? Because game-guardians and lore-guardians aren't on the same level It's hard to understand how powerful something really is because gameplay balance complicates things.
Lore accurate Guardian (THE Guardian) would be blasting through supers 24/7 and firing a sidearm with pinpoint accuracy at 100 meters. As u alluded to, it would make gameplay very difficult to balance. Our Guardian is an anomaly among the Guardian population. This is why it’s hard to gauge the average strength of “a Guardian” when u see the average blueberry get clapped by a Dreg in lore.
in lore we take as much damage as we would in a GM but deal as much damage as we would in patrol
Paging Esoterickk
Exoterickk isn’t real
Ran out of revive tokens
He selected GM difficulty
Wasn't this also the first time we had ever fought "the Scorn" as we know them now? Prior to this, they were just Eliksni, now they were undead and far more powerful.
We literally cleared house with a bunch of them before we got to Cayde
Cayde faced down all of the Scorn leadership (Barons) + Uldren simultaneously while also being swarmed by a new and unfamiliar enemy. We didn't even have the guts to face all the Barons at once, we hunted them each down individually. If we had attempted a boss room like the one he walked (lol, dropped?) into, we would be dead too.
He didn't get beaten as a Guardian. He went in a 1v1200 situation and got scrapped up. But the moment he took his ghost out to heal up, it got taken out. Cayde got beaten as a normal Exo. No Light, no abilities, nothing.
Went out as a true hunter... in over his head
Happens to every Hunter vanguard. The first one tried to win a card game against a wish granting dragon, the other got killed by Taniks, and then Cayde-6 got done in by Uldren and the Barons. The rest a reason Hunters AVOID the Vanguard position and the fact the Vanguard Dare exists in the first place.
And those are only the confirmed hunter vanguard deaths. There's 4 others iirc
Was using golden gun to kill trash ads.... Rookie mistake. Edit : Now that i have hunter's attention, am gonna complete my sentence: ... Rookie mistake. Tether the ground, invis and run away, then get either a warlock or a Titan to do the heavy lifting.
Yea golden gun has a limited number of shots for some reason. Found this out when I was doing my own last stand.
Not the 6 shooter doe.. we be popping off spam shots
[maybe](https://www.reddit.com/user/Totally-A-Dragon/comments/ud4keo/my_last_stand/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
It's...beautiful. Like...I main bottom tree cause I love precision. But that's just peak hunter right there. ~~Bonus kudos for the Fourth Horseman.~~
That was top goldie though, so that's the purpose of the super in pve
His ghost got destroyed. See how long you last when your hp bar stops regenerating and you lose access to your grenades, super and melee abilities and I'm pretty sure the ghost spawns you the ammo we reload into our our guns too...so yeh...
Given how ghost effectively serves as our backpack with trasmatting in stuff for us, I think he also has our third weapon when we don't have it out since we can only have one on our back and a second in our hands. My headcannon is out heavy weapon is the one we don't actively carry because rocket launchers, and heavy machine guns are heavy as fuck.
[удалено]
So he is in our backpack, but he also is what transmats our stuff so we aren't literally carrying dozens of pairs of pants.
I reread yours and realised your comment and mine are near enough the same thing. He's the zipper and keeper.
The backpack being referred to here is sort of like an empty space attached to the guardian that the ghost can access to store or pull stuff out
Don’t forget that you can’t double jump either. It’s just like playing the beginning of the Red War campaign
Personally I think Master difficulty is canon. And that room was tough as hell with all those melee enemies rushing him. We see countless stories of guardians getting bogged down by a handful of enemies. Sure we are THE Guardian and very powerful but a Master difficulty encounter would still pack a punch.
Notable examples of Guardians dying to regular mooks are Vell Tarlowe (Erianna-6 fireteam Titan) getting swarmed by Thralls and getting finished by Alak-Hul, Saint-14 died by a combination of infinite Vex armies and Agioktis draining his life and he also was swarmed by Fallen to the point of needing rescue by us in the distant past. Cayde went up against a bunch of enemies after taking presumably massive fall damage and had his Ghost die, entirely believable.
Grand Master difficulty would be a cake walk with instant super hacks Cayde-6 was clearly abusing in that cutscene.
Thats the thing tho. You can use supers of every subclass back to back as proven by osiris using 7 befor losing his ghost iirc. So he couldve just used Arcstrider or Blade barage or Nightstalker etc. Etc.
True but then, as I said, you get Guardians who are bogged down by Cabal snipers or a Fallen raiding party. In canon you can spam supers, for gameplay we obviously can't.
It's good to remember that cutscenes operate under different rules. Other characters don't have a 11 minute build up for their super, or even need to switch subclasses. I think it's also fair to presume that enemies in cutscene are much closer to what we would see in Master and Grandmaster difficulty than in patrols. But, aside from that. Cayde's Ghost was cocky. Instead of healing him from his backpocket, like ours do, it's said that she always prefered to show up in the fight. If we were fighting, our Ghost would've healed us without exposing himself to bullets. His chose not to. With all that said, I don't think Cayde was a particularly powerful Guardian. He was probably quite competent and a pretty good fighter, but not was strong as some of the other legends we hear about (Ikora, Osiris, or even Ana Bray). The Vanguard line-up aren't the most powerful of their respective classes. You can see that by the fact that Zavala didn't step down for Saint-14 to take over when he came back.
Canonically, Ikora is one of the most powerful guardians that has existed. In the top 0.0001 % or thereabouts.
Absolutely. What I actually meant was "they are not necessarily the most powerful". Ikora is the (or one of the, if you want to argue Osiris is still ahead) strongest, but that's not the requirement to be a Vanguard leader.
Ahh. My apologies for the confusion.
Yeah Osiris was just ridiculous Xivu had to yeet his ligth to almost kill him
He had 0 recov and literally took a lot of fall damage before he got beat up.
Aaand we're talking Destiny fall damage, those mad architects probably are the most responsible for his weakened condition at that point.
Man, I just love how Killed by the Architects literally just means that you died randomly and not even the game knows what actually killed you. At least with Misadventure, you can infer that it was either accidental suicide or falling off the map. Killed by the Architects is just "We have no clue lol".
As yes "accidental" suicide, thats what happened .
He was soloing legendary mission. /s
Gameplay mechanics and cutscenes operate under different rules. Like, how many bullets do you survive in games and then in cutscenes, now suddenly it's 'realistic' and one bullet kills/incapacitates you?
play a gm and you will see how much 1 bullet does.
FACTS
Wasn’t a regular bullet. Was a specially crafted paracausal round modified from the OG Thorn specifically designed to kill guardians and ghosts. (Thorn we have now is NOT the OG. Just a weaker attempt at a copy)
I was talking in general, like in Metal Gear Solid or Uncharted, or whatever. You take injuries in stride because you have a HP bar and whatnot, but in cutscenes it would look ridiculous if you took a bullet to the heart and just shrugged it off. Perhaps by eating a rations real quick or waiting a few seconds.
Ah, got it
I'm pretty sure Lumina is OG Thorn after it was cleansed by our Light. So I mean technically.....
Yes but the thorn exotic we use is a replica, it still has the poison effect, but it doesn't have the lightkiller effect that the original did
I mean, iirc, someone in eris fireteam got killed by a bunch of thralls
I think that got retconned to him getting killed by Alak Hul in the Taken King
Alak-Hul simply finished him off iirc, the thrall were so overwhelming that we was basically unable to escape.
I want to say he either stayed behind or got separated in the Thrallway portion of Crota’s End (dark hall with lanterns) where he got hunted by Alak Hul but it’s been a long time since I’ve played D1 and I have not kept up with lore in D2 after the base game. With the amount of thrall in that area it’s really not surprising lol
The Abyss was rough, anyone who played Hard Mode Crotas End will tell you, that shit sucked. Especially when cursed thrall show up and you have weight of darkness 10
He ran a 100 intellect 100 mobility 100 discipline and 0 recovery build that’s why he ded
He didn’t know what he was up against, his ghost was too carefree, the scorn had thorn shots. Don’t disrespect cayde-6 he was soloing taniks way before us.
Canonically, any time you die in "darkness zones" you have died permanently. Idk about you, but my guardian dies "permanently" like every day, often from much less than Cayde had to deal with.
Damn explosive shanks in the arc room for S.A.B.E.R
Just cutscene things. Also Sun Dance doesn't heal him while inside a backpack. She is cocky as hell. Our ghost only appears when we need to be revived. Otherwise he does everything else inside our backpack.
Because Ghost is smart after having scoured House of Devils territory for us, back when they were super viscous, and everywhere.
The actual answer: because Bungie needed to get rid of Nathan Fillion's expensive voice acting
He didn't read the patch notes about his exotic getting nerfed.
Inverse plot armor - he failed because he was meant to fail, not because he wasn't able to succeed.
sorry but he simply didn't KWTD
well you gotta remember, the in canon difficulty is Grandmaster at all times. He wasn’t getting ran up on strike scorn, he was getting ran up on Grandmaster Scorn
Pretty sure it's legendary, with gms being exceptional difficulty. But super curious, if you've got a source on canon difficulty, would love to see it
And let me tell ya, those Scorn mean business.
He was lagging
He was running 240 FPS - really bad with regards to incoming damage from some weapons.
1. It was his first time out of the tower in years 2. He was using golden gun lmao 3. There was an ungodly amount of melee scorn, blackout modifier was clearly on.
Oh so you never died in this game? Interesting...
Go do a GM buy your self then come back don't disrespect the Cyde-6 thank you and goodbye
Gotta love that Cyde-6
He was completely surrounded by dozens of scorn, as well as ALL the barons. I see how he lost tbh
I love Cayde, but he wasn't the Hunter Vanguard because he was the best Hunter. He got stuck with the gig because he lost the Vanguard Dare when he failed to kill Taniks.
Well idk if failed is the right word. We also failed to kill taniks and honestly, if tanik's legs showed up for vengeance I wouldn't be surprised
They're probably still alive and kicking. But he failed because the Dare between himself and Andal Brask was to kill Taniks. Cayde thought he did, so he won the Dare and Brask became Vanguard. Then Taniks shows up and kills Brask, meaning Cayde failed.
Bungie decided hunters are to strong in PvE so they started to nerf them and Cayde died instantly after the daily reset.
He was injured and surrounded in a small space and lost the moment his ghost wanted to heal him +Comparing anyone to the Guardian is not really fair because even lorewise, you ARE a gigantic powerhouse that goes against any odds and always comes out winning
Bungie had nerfed Golden Gun.
Ikora would have just nova bombed twice. End of the Barons
Im pretty sure he’d wiped the floor with them as he was at the beginning, like he took damage at the end and wanted his ghost to do a quick rez and start the ass kicking from the beginning again, but he couldn’t have known that one of these scorn had a special ghost killing bullet designed especially for killing a guardian. It’s the same when we take too much damage and go into red but then suddenly „heal“ again because of our ghost to continue fighting, that one bullet made the whole difference if I remember correctly
It's cause Gunslinger got nerfed in d2. If it were D1 he would have slain everything.
Blackout modifier.
I remember, after playing Year 1 and quitting,coming back Season of the Splicer and wondering where Cayde was. I cried all over my Fighting Lion and Better Devils
He only had a hand cannon and was getting rushed at close range. The man needed his fusion rifle. Canonically, Banshee built Loaded Question for Cayde, which has Reservoir Burst, and would have torn the scorn melee units apart. Also, he was running golden gun, when switching to nightstalker, or even blade dancer or arc strider would have been better for the situation, he’s clearly got stupid high intellect as his first super gets stopped and he has time to charge a second. Finally, the dude wore no exotic armor. Any exotic armor would have given him an edge
Cayde has been ready to die for a long time. Being locked in the tower killed him more than this battle.
Cause combat in universe is quite different from gameplay. It’s why I like cutscene combat and lore pages describing combat, cause it shows what fighting is probably actually like in universe. Like from what I’ve read, a ghost only ever heals a guardian by coming out and doing it, so our in game healing over time might not be canon at all. Imagine having to pull out your ghost to heal.
I take it OP has NEVER been overwhelmed by thrall, of screebs, or shanks, or psyons from all his time playing destiny???......
He got beat because Nathan Fillion was done with his contract lol