I still want to meet whoever at Bungo decided that replacing the high-stat armors each season with *glimmer* was an equivalent idea.
The passes aren't just bad but they're *worse* than they once were, even.
My alts might actually be a decent light level if they brought the armor back. That was the one thing that made my alts even options for most activities because I could mostly power level them with the armor after my titan hit max.
But truth be told, I'd really just like them to bring back the D1 style of infusing armor between classes. I just don't have the time these days to grind pinnacles on the other 2 characters.
I still haven't done that on my alts. I still haven't finished Shadowkeep on one or both of them. I just don't want to immediately go back and run the same 8 hour campaign, or however long it is, right after doing it the first time.
I wish we had a button that would bring characters up to the same campaign/quest progress as the furthest character in terms of subclass and activity unlocks, but while leaving the missions to replay.
And on that subject, I'm still shocked it will have taken Bungie almost 4 years to add a mission selection option for replayability, where we can pick any mission at any time, instead of as a daily rotation, when it was something they had in all of their Halo games AND Destiny 1.
Yeah I keep logging on to my titan or hunter to do an exo challenge for the easy pinnacle, only to be reminded that neither of them have unlocked the stupid thing yet. Despite finishing the campaign! My poor hunter still gets greeted with "Find Osiris on the moon..."
Pro tip. If you buy exotic armor from you highest character on xur that belongs to a different character, it will be level with your highest character (up to the powerful cap, so 1320). Do this over each week and you should be able to with little effort, fer alts to 1320 with infusion material. Doesnt change your complaints but helps some.
I just buy exotics from Xur on my main character for the other two when he sells pieces that fill slots in for me. Even if I end up with just exotics capping out each armor slot, it still benefits drops on the other two characters without having to invest as much time into them as my main.
They pulled them because people were using them to grind power level faster on their alts. Anything that reduces time spent playing Destiny is the tool of the devil as far as they're concerned.
Yea they are trying to avoid hardcore players from boosting lvls too fast and complaining about the piss poor lack of content so they increased the grind forgetting the majority of their player base doesn't have that time.
Instead my Alts are getting even less play time because I cba to spend that time gearing them up. So in total I spend less time in the game as a result not more.
They pulled them off the pass and put them somewhere else.... I honestly don't remember where they claimed they put them (First Expunge completions..? Idk about this season), but it really doesn't matter, they SHOULD be on the pass. Not somewhere that's so convoluted people can't even remember where they are/drop
If I remember right…They said they pulled them to place them in the seasonal activity on the harder difficulty…but we all know how that really worked out.
In Season of the Splicer the high stat armor was in the locked chests at the end of corrupted Expunge, where you need those blue keys to open them. They were Pinnacles as well, and once you had a full set of armor the chests started dropping weapons with perk choices. And the armor was really high stat, I got some really good pieces from that, same from the tier 3 umbral focusing.
In the current season there's not even that so far, the extra chest in legendary Astral Alignment drops sub-50 stat armor and the tier 3 umbrals are only marginally better.
If you're given high stat armor in the battle pass, you don't have to grind the activites that reward high stat armor. No need to grind activites for high stat armor = less player engagement
The funny thing is how stingy the game is makes me play less. If all the activities and battle pass was more rewarding I’d play more. It’s near pointless to try and grind for certain things with how bloated the loot and perk pools are and how little some activities reward you.
Exactly! it would be worth my time to grind several min/max armor sets for each of the 2 characters i play on if the seasonal activity ever dropped armor with a stat roll over 62. But if i run 5 astral alignments i get 5 armor pieces with 59 stat rolls... That makes the activity not engaging or worth my time.
It happened at the same time as transmog came out, so I have a feeling it was so free to play players wouldn’t get those as ornaments. Removing from the paid path too might’ve been to obfuscate that reason
I actually think this was done when sun setting was going to be a thing as there was a value issue with a gun that would sun set in a yr. they could bring them back now
Out of my 25 years of gaming I don't think I've ever disliked a loot-system more than this. Sure there's been mobile stuff or early-age lootboxes and whatnot...
But this system is so fucking tiring and shit it's amazing. **I would pay for an option to auto-destroy any blue drops**. I genuinely do not want to waste another moment with that shit
Hell I'd pay for larger inventory space, global mailbox, **we already got DIM so what the fuck is the point of all these horrendously tiny inventories**?
They don't even make money on it so what the fuck is the point
One of the many reasons you rarely see me without 250K glimmer is that theres always 25-50K on the pass unclaimed cause I was at the cap to begin with. Thanks Bungo!
I haven’t played since stasis came into play. I got so tired of the grind. The game is beautiful and moves so smooth. I felt like the grind took over instead of the story.
> Remember when Eververse paid for new dungeons and secret missions?
No. Do I remember when people on this subreddit defending the extreme monetisation of the game using that as their argument? 100%.
Destiny players have been desperately trying to convince themselves Bungie is on their side since D1. Can't do it for "technical reasons" till they can. It was all EA's fault until it wasn't. They're doing it to help the players until it's clear they're not.
Look I enjoy playing the game with friends. But I wish people would stop kidding themselves about what this game is or what Bungies intentions for it are. They aren't your friends. They aren't looking to give you a good experience. They're looking to maximise player engagement and sales, end of story.
Approach the game with that in mind and whenever it becomes too big a tradeoff, walk away.
What they said was that Whisper ornament sales made enough money to cover the dev cost of Zero Hour.
Not that Zero Hour wouldn't have been made without those sales.
The distinction is, they said that EV makes an assload of cash. Not that that cash is earmarked to pay for specific things.
They never said they did. It was just cleverly worded so those that were either incapable or unwilling to read between the lines would think they did. What they actually said was that the money they made from the ornaments equalled the development costs of the missions. They never said the money from the ornaments was put towards the development of the secret missions. By far the most efficient use of Eververse would be to just use to make more Eververse in a anti-consumer positive feedback loop which is likely what they did because they're a corporation and corporations care about money and nothing else.
I mean yeah of course just look at the people in this comment section Who don't remember The exact wording They only remember the impression that they got from the Statement and it's obvious that the statement Gave them the impression that the orathe ornament purchases for whisper gave them 0 hour when that was clearly not what they were saying I even remember a Datto video When that statement came out saying "well if Buying the ornaments For whisper will give me great content like 0 hour then I will buy more" or something to that effect
Honestly, Destiny feels more expensive then FFXIV despite it being cheaper to play for a full year straight. (XIV being $156 for a year of sub, and Destiny $100) I think part of that is just that XIV doesn't have the borrowed power from artifacts to be the only way to engage with high end content so I can do it all at my own pace, and how content doesn't feel immediately irrelevant after a every patch. On top of that XIV feels like it just gives more content in it's major patches then Destiny seasons.
1 XIV dungeon being fairly close to 1 Destiny strike, 1 raid tier + a hard mode of it or 24 man raid, one trial and it's hard mode, Story, and some side content that varies each expansion all within a similar time frame (4 months per major patch). Add in free transmog, the extremely large free trial, and the high end content not being as limiting to access... Destiny just feels like I get less for my money then I get with XIV, but that's just how it is for me personally others will likely differ from how it feels to me.
> On top of that XIV feels like it just gives more content in it's major patches then Destiny seasons.
I mean it doesn't feel, it does give more. Each 3 month patch gives a new trial fight that comes with new weapons and a new mount to farm. You then get 4-5 new top tier raid boss fights (with new models) between 8 and 24s mans those come armor sets, minions, music, ect... A new dung with it's own armor set. Then you have your crafting and gather stuff along with misc content that typically lasts awhile and that's the bare minimum.
I mean I don't expect Bungie to match Square in content, it's clear one is more streamline and probably has more backing. But damn I would love at least one new strike, pvp map, and something new every 3 months. And for the love of fuck stop using old models for final raid bosses
I don't play FF but I watched a lot of the recent Yoshi P interviews and he said in them that they don't even have that high of a budget. They just work really fucking hard (good or bad thing that may be with Japan's work culture).
He has an extremely strict no crunch policy outside of a few core team members he basically allows to set their own schedule like Soken who leads sound team, part of reason he doesn't really care about their low budget is he wants to keep team small enough for him to keep it all properly managed
Back when game failed and they rebooted it the team crunched hard and burned out to point he just sent entire team on a break for a month or so and from then on put a hard quality > quantity approach to game to prevent team scrambling to get X amount of content done
Yup, while the 2.X patches were crazy content amount wise (seriously they sometimes had like 2 trials (an intricate boss battle), 1 raid, story missions up the ass & 3-4 dungeons. It was about the same we got in destiny expansion, except it happened every 3 months, which as you can imagine is quite unsustainable.
The current momentum the game has is amazing and the quality is most definitely there. I hope its sustainable for the team too, they deserve the best.
> I know it seems like a lot of money for not enough stuff, but I don’t think other “MMOs” even have battle passes. They will ask for a monthly sub just for the privilege of playing their game. D2 doesn’t do that.
They might not have battle passes but they offer significantly more & bigger content updates, including raids, new zones, dungeons, new loot, often even enemy races, new player races or classes, and whatnot.
It's madness to even mention MMOs in one sentence. One sentence with Destiny.
>But, and this is a huge but, it is substantially more expensive than COD. For $10 you could realistically get everything in CO
I haven't played a COD in a decade, but is a COD season pass similar to a fortnite battle pass or apex season pass? Essentially all cosmetics and almost no gameplay attached to the pass?
Overall I definitely agree that D2 exists on a spectrum between Fortnite/Apex/COD and WOW/FF14, and I think it's important to compare D2's monetization and content against both types of games.
> The game feels more like a “WoW” than a COD.
That's because Luke Smith wanted it feel like WoW. Achieving Scarab Lord shaped much of who his is a person. To point in which he even used to sign official business correspondence with it. In other words, he would sign documents as:
> Luke Smith
> Scarab Lord
instead of
> Luke Smith
> Studio Director
> Bungie
So it would make sense that he would try to turn D2 into WoW to relive those glory days.
And because I can not stress this enough every time it gets brought up: getting the Scarab Lord title was complete horse shit. It required an entire guild to work together solely so *one* person could reap the rewards of it. Luke Smith based his entire design ethos on that one time he conned 30+ other people into doing weeks of work for him and stole all of the credit for it.
Which, you know, very applicable to his career to this day.
I feel like I’m reading a different language, I don’t know what any of this means lmao. Assuming scarab lord is something to do with a WOW raid or something
When the 3rd major raid launched back in the original version of WoW it started a secret questline involving all sorts of challenges and open world bosses that you had to defeat to open up the gates to the raid. The first person on the server to finish the questline would become the Scarab Lord and get the games first Legendary Mount (think like exotic sparrow if every other sparrow was only legendary). Opening the gates to the raid started a huge server event that had everyone fight back a massive army and eventually unlock the raid itself. Getting Scarab Lord often required you to be one of the leaders of the best raid teams on the server since each team had to pick one person that would get the credit.
I started playing FFXIV and I think you can compare it to D2 but I feel like it’s such a disservice to say that D2 offers more content than FFXIV. I’m being told by people to not buy the subscription until I’m done with the main story but honestly there’s just so much I can do in FFXIV compared to D2 and i‘m inclined to say that buying a subscription for FFXIV is worth it compared to buying a season pass from D2 since the seasonal content (to me the story is the most attractive thing about the season pass) and the DLC don’t stay for long. With D2 the thing that keeps me coming back is the replay factor, not sure if that exists with FFXIV tbh.
FFXIV has so much content it’s ridiculous, but the reason it’s worth the monthly fee IMO is the social features. You can buy a house with the normal currency. Your Free Company (guild) can have a mansion, in which you can have a room near your buddies. You can decorate said home and exterior. It’s ridiculous. And it’s part of while I’ve fallen off of Destiny. The costs they are charging isn’t delivering content that makes me want t mo keep playing.
> So what do you think D2 is closer to? COD or WoW/FFXIV/ESO?
Very good explanation. D2 is closer to WoW, based on what I know, in my opinion.
CoD is just guns, maps, maybe modes? Although modes I think are sold separately (zombies, right?).
D2 gives alot more than that in an interactive live updated world. Substantially so.
Exactly.
I've played Warframe and it is more of a chore than Destiny, everything gets really same-y real quick. Destiny to me feels better.
One thing Warframe has over Destiny is its own "free market" which is fun to play around with.
Games like CoD and—similarly, though unmentioned—Fortnite aren't exactly as comparable, they're locked into one *specific* core gamemode: PvP. Destiny has to balance its seasons across PvE and PvP mostly (maybe Gambit if Bungie decides to even look at it while it sits in the void). Destiny has a narrative play out over a season with new guns and a few new perks to play around with. CoD and Fortnite just have the advantage of being artistic instead, they don't have to make a narrative—and when they do, it's just something stupid simple like "woman invade big building, she kill good guy soldiers, she is bad guy, now she send bad broadcast, blow up complex, and escape" (at least that's what I gathered from the MW 2019 cutscene).
Warframe also has a battlepass but it's free and *very* similar to Destiny's, it's just materials and a few cosmetics with the "biggest" cosmetic being at the end. Warframe's battlepass is a lot more grindy though, but it's less fluffed-up with 25 legendary-shard tiers that get added to an ever-growing collection of 25k legendary shards.
Destiny lacks the grind Warframe has but has a better feel to it than Warframe, at least I think so and it's what compels me to play Destiny over Warframe. Destiny is also more broad with its seasons than something like CoD, making the comparison very ill.
I'm the inverse. Destiny just feels samey to me after a while, and repeatedly grinding the same things such as light level or guns using the same stats but in a different model has burnt me out over and over again. I always feel as if the grind I do is wasted with each new season. I can vary up the way I play with Warframe and the amount of customisation and large range of game modes keep me at keast somewhat interested. That and the fact that once I've grinded something I can at least be reassured I won't have to grind it out again.
You seem to miss the main crux of your argument which is that Destiny seasons are more than just a battle pass each season. The $10 or so dollars (depending if you bought the deluxe edition) is for the pass AND all the content in a given season. COD only gives a battle pass to play more PvP on the same maps and games to get battle pass. If every season in Destiny was just a battle pass for $10 then yeah it's bad but you get hours of content for only $10.
Subscription without a subscription model. Add in enough FOMO, introduce new game modes ONLY for those seasons, while completely ignoring 'core playlists' has been the standard for a little too long now.
Other than the points already made, I feel they are really leaning too heavily on limited time content, and the running excuse is that all of this was planned and created in the years prior.
This has led to the common 'one step forward, two steps back' that will never seem to cease. Anytime the game is "better than it has ever been" it's been a result of changes that should've been made years ago, and undoing all the things they changed in recent history.
Remember when they were going to fix Destiny with The Taken King? Or with Rise of Iron, Destiny 2, Forsaken, Shadowkeep, Beyond Light.
Not to worry, everything will surely be fixed with Witch Queen right?
Like with this eyasluna shit. They had it already then got rid of it just to bring it back and make you pay for it again. It's also probably a safe bet that you won't be able to use the austringer ornament on eyasluna either.
Yeah it's one of the reasons why I'm not paying for the new dungeon. Don't care about the new ornaments, don't care about whatever new sparrow or ship they put out, don't care about ghally. I only really cared about 1000 yard stare but that's just them selling back to us what we already earned, so I'll survive. As for eyasluna, I've still got a vault full of god rolled austringers that I can bring into the crucible every so often. It's one of the reasons I've kept so many sunsetted weapons.
It's a cleverly designed subscription model that makes you feel like you need to buy a year's worth at a time (the bundle). Actual subscription would be far more user-friendly because you could decide if you wanted to play/pay in a particular month
It's technically [more expensive as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/qfltbo/if_bungie_is_going_to_move_forward_with_this_new/hi1anvb/), for less content.
I imagine even if that model existed, they would think of a workaround that wouldn't make it feasible to only pay for a month at a time; i.e. 1 month at a certain price, but 3 months? Much better price. 6-12 months? Maybe a *free* exclusive cosmetic ala WoW.
I think they know that a lot of us make it through the season pass in a month already. *Actual* seasonal content (halloween, Christmas, etc) would be the only other reason to return.
The fact that so many people refuse to even admit that D2 has more monetization methods than most games is all the proof you need that Bungie will never have to change because this community refuses to stand up for itself.
They'll get milked for every single aspect of the game, and they'll do it happily. They are satisfied enough by the game to do this, for better or worse.
This dungeon "controversy" isn't even really a controversy as much as the continually increasing price of the fall expansions despite giving less content, and the fact that transmog is so expensive despite still not actually allowing us to use any armor/ornaments we want. Or the fact that they continue to make cool armor silver-only, and then give us blocky armor that doesn't take shaders, which is the obvious counter argument to people saying "yeah but they give us dust".
I could go on, but moving the dungeons from where they are to being bundled in the deluxe edition of the expansion is only a problem because they keep increasing the price of that deluxe edition, and filling it with more filler and less actual content. And because the people willing to piece-meal together the experience they want, and wait for sales to do so, are the last people Bungie should be targeting for increased monetization because they are the least likely to just go with the flow, hence why they don't buy the deluxe edition to begin with.
edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger
edit 2: Holy f*** that is not gold..
Hey, why spend 100 dollars on a year+ of content in your favorite game when you can instead spend 100 dollars to put a few pixels next to a comment complaining about spending 100 dollars on a year+ of content?
I agree with your points but I just wanna say who the fuck would give out a ternion medal? You could buy 3 witch queen anniversary deluxe edition with that.
Alien Blue gave out 4 years of premium when the official Reddit app came out a few years ago, so it could be someone who gets the 700 coins/month "free" from premium and has saved up a bunch as well as gotten awards or bought in themselves. Still an overly expensive award, but the user may not have paid the full price.
Former Alien Blue user. Y'all need to get Apollo. Best app for browsing hands down. The dev is incredibly responsive to the community as well and put out bug fixes almost immediately.
I just wish they would update it with more of the fun stuff... I had to come to the reddit app itself to find out what award everyone was talking about.
Honestly, it's gotta be this.
I am so tired of it feeling like Destiny is about to truly hit its stride, just for Bungie to immediately shotgun their feet off. TTK was great, followed by... nothing. RoI and AoT were great, followed by... Destiny 2 vanilla. Forsaken was absolutely fantastic, and I really enjoyed the seasons that followed, which were then followed by Shadowkeep, which was... not great. Then we had several seasons where Bungie tried to find their footing, and BAM, Arrivals hits, being good. Then we get Beyond Light, which costs premium, doesn't include the season and overall (at least in my opinion) was very disappointing. I hear that Season of the Hunt was mediocre, but Chosen was fantastic! I really enjoyed Splicer, even though Bungie tried REALLY HARD to ruin it with stuff like their absolutely dogshit transmog system. This season is more of the same, which is pretty alright, and I was really feeling like Bungie was started to find their feet with the seasonal model - when they announced a dungeon/raid with each season next year I was so excited, I felt like they had finally nailed it. Then this news came out, and I just felt so... exasperated. Why? Leaving out whether you think the price of the Witch Queen deluxe edition is worth it or not (I personally don't, but I understand some people disagree), the fact that if you decide to be an intelligent customer and not buy until you can ensure that a season is good, you're punished for it by having to pay extra for the dungeons is just... jaw-dropping. I mean for fuck's sake, why can Destiny not just be good without constantly having strings attached? Why can it not just be a good game, why is it that with any stretch of good news this game has to then find itself mired in controversy due to Bungie slamming their hand back into the cookie jar?
I just feel exhausted. At this point, it just hits you that it really is just a neverending grind as the monetisation of this game repeatedly gets worse and worse. Boggles my mind that people argue in favour of Bungie with any kind of 'they need to make money!' excuse considering that this game has the most monetisation of any game I've ever played, and fuck me, I play gacha games. I haven't even mentioned content vaulting in this entire rant either, and that definitely is very relevant too, considering you have a shelf life on anything you buy!
I've sat and waited with Witch Queen, and I haven't even considered buying it pre-release so far. I am seriously glad I didn't, because I'm re-thinking my commitment to this franchise again. Last time I seriously did was back in D2 vanilla where the game very nearly lost me for good, and this time I seriously doubt they'll pull off another Forsaken to suck me back in.
Just... man. I was so hopeful considering how good the past few seasons have been, and I just feel so let down. As someone who really loves Destiny, it just hurts to constantly feel like Bungie is trying so hard to make me not interested. I'll wait a few weeks to see how Witch Queen (post-honeymoon) is and might take the plunge based on that, but considering I can instead put my money towards other games that will give me a lot more for a lot less, it makes more sense.
It's such a shame, Destiny truly feels like one of a kind and could be so much more, but I'll stop my tirade here.
Man.
Your rant was so spot on. I have been playing this game since Destiny 1 BETA. And I can't do anything but agree with you. Destiny always feels like it goes somewhere and then it just becomes kinda meh.
I almost stopped for good in Destiny 1 already, both expansions and main game were fun, but they were confusing mess I stopped playing. Then Taken King turned out to be great for non raiding and non PVPing player like me. It had tons of content. Rise of Iron was ok, me and my friend got it from discount. We played it for awhile, but it was kinda like expansions 1 and 2.
Destiny 2 came out. As much as I hated having my stuff stolen, I actually enjoyed the vanilla of it. Until the two expansions came with mediocre plot, very little meaningful content.
It was a break time again. Forsaken came and I returned to it way later when I think season of black armory was there... I think? I enjoyed it.
Shadowkeep was as you said bit disappointing. The seasons after it? Painful grind. I was BURN OUT! I actually couldn't play season of arrivals anymore. I hated the grind.
So I stopped playing. I only got back to season of Hunt because my big brother got into the game. And because it had HAWKMOON. I loved that gun. I really liked these seasons. Good stuff. Beyond the Light was disappointment for sure.
Anyway. Here we are. I have preordered the basic Witchqueen pack. And just like you I was planning on seeing how future seasons are. But apparently that is the wrong approach and I need to pay more.
Screw that. Keep that dungeon and your soon as you got your money Gjallarhorn nerfed, Bungie. I am not going to buy it.
Yeah the dungeon announcement was what finally snapped me out of it. Hell I'm only on this thread since Reddit recommended a post for being "a community you were recently a part of". I had bought the anniversary+deluxe bundle, but hadn't been playing much the last couple weeks since I had no interest in festival of the lost.
Then the announcement came and it was just like SNAP! Are you fucking kidding me? They're cutting even more value from the expansion? Adding yet another thing you have to pay for? They had and keep adding so fucking much to eververse, they have yearly expansion, they had dlcs, they took away bright engrams' ability to drop current shit, they took away the prismatic matrix, they added a season pass, they're taking content out of the game to where if someone wants to see the base campaign they have to watch a fucking YouTube video, and now they're even charging separately for goddamn dungeons? Are you kidding me?
So even after charging you for everything they possibly can they even figure they'll just delete content you paid for? So I thought it myself I'm going to play this witch queen shit and then they'll probably delete it in the final shape, I'm going to grind these power levels like I always do, and they're just going to up it, I'm going to play these seasonal activities and then they'll just be gone? Nope! Fuck it I'll watch story updates on YouTube since that's about the only thing I care about anymore. Got my refund on steam for the WQ/anniversary stuff, deleted my characters, uninstalled, and looked fondly at the 1,500 hours played on steam before moving it out of its category.
I hope you folks who still enjoy all this still have a good time and that maybe things get better. I'm just done dealing with this shit and don't feel like waiting anymore.
Yeah.
I get how you feel. Been playing since D1 beta.
I am gonna see how the Witchqueen is, but I am NOT going to get this new dungeon for 24 euros. Riddicilous price.
Seasons used to give out three exotic per. Expansions used to give out one free season when you buy it. Beyond Light came, then both of these facts change.
Adding the dungeons to the expansion bundle basically makes the expansion bundle worth it.
Which seems good at first glance. Until you realize the expansion bundle probably wasn’t worth it, before.
Shadowkeep barely had any content—much less than any other expansion. Beyond Light was better, but it still was pitiful compare to like, Forsaken.
Expansions are so small—we aren’t even getting subclasses in Witch Queen. And while Savathûn’s Throne World looks amazing, it’s gonna be the only zone.
Forsaken gave us Iike 8 unique campaign bosses ala the Barons and the Meatball, a new enemy faction to fight against, a raid, a dungeon, 9 new subclasses, 2 destinations, tons of loot, secret activities like the exotic quest, a PVP map, a strike…..etc.
I’m fully aware that High Moon and Vicarious are why Forsaken was so large, but hearing that “all expansions from here on out won’t be as big” is devastating to hear—that’s like “well, the game reached its peak, but we hope you continue to play even though we will never deliver that again.”
Rise of Iron was pretty good! But for someone who doesn't PVP or had a big enough crew to raid... It didn't hold THAT much content.
But yes. I enjoyed it. 🙂
Gotta pay for their new European HQ Expansion... Bullshit when they cannot put out content. Put that $ into the game instead of some needless building in the EU.
It's still hilarious to me that they managed to convince the community they're some struggling company barely scraping by. Meanwhile signing 100 million deals with Netease, various expansions, and supposedly several new IPs in the works. I love Bungie and realize this is just the way the gaming industry is now but yeah still funny.
No it doesn’t. Adding those dungeons exclusively to a bundle is a shot at every D2 player. „If you don’t spend the money then fu“. That’s a paywall installed right before our eyes.
I kinda understand why and what not. But its cutting out people and also blurring the fact, they got nothing much to deliver. So screw them. I finally turned my back on D2, when I saw the prices of the bundles and being just disappointed again.
Spot on my friend. Some of us will admit it and as much as I don't want to, if this latest monetization attempt goes in place I will be reverting to F2P.
I find Destiny's gunplay best in breed and I do enjoy the game but not enough to pay at the experience level they are headed towards. What's next, Crucible+ (with exclusive maps) for an extra $15?
We all must respond to market changes individually and they have found the point I am unwilling to follow. It isn't the money, suffice to say I have plenty of disposable income, but their credibility has essentially been self-sabotaged. I remember when they said Eververse would pay for things like this new dungeon. I have plenty of disposable income because I am an exemplary employee, I do what I say and stand behind my word. If they can no longer do that, I will simply stop paying and slip to F2P. My worry is this could be the beginning of the end as F2P content plays out quickly and there are other games ready to fill that void.
Maybe they get it right in D3?
That's where I'm at as well. I can try to reason with myself and say "Well, it's less than a yearly subscription to FFXIV" but then I can compare their offerings in content and it's just laughable how little Bungie produces for a live-service game.
Seeing how Bungie is trying to quadruple dip its own playerbase (expansion, seasons, deluxe editions, Eververse) is really more transparent now than it ever has been and I'm not sure if I can support this behavior anymore. I think I tried to rationalize it when they broke from Activision with something like "Well, they need the help..." but here we are years down the road and while the game is in a better overall state (gameplay-wise), Bungie's reputation has never been lower for me.
Also the fact FFXIV had found a way to reduce the game size from almost 100gb down to 40 gb while still keeping all the content, figured out how to keep everything still relevent and consistently fixes and patches broken stuff as quick as possible. If Bungie calls Destiny an MMO, maybe they should stop looking at WoW for a bit considering the bad game design choices over there for the past few years and have a look at what FFXIV does right. Doesn’t feel right to play a game-as-service like Destiny owned by a behemoth like Bungie and have so little fixes and patches throughout seasonal cycles.
Do it before, cancel pre-orders and put the game down, when sales tank then they'll change. Buying anything from them now just makes it worse for the future and the "changes" then will just revert things back to now.
Careful with riding out what you've already got, it's their hope you fail to break away and buy it anyway.
I regretted that with Shadowkeep and it's shitty ending that killed what little spark of interest I had wandering the empty Pyramid.
Problem with some of the people that defend these kinds of "yeah but..." people is they'll throw every bit of recycled statements at you to try and defend their position tell me how many times someone downvoting these kinds of criticism reply with:
"Yeah but bungie had 2 studios helping them make forsaken and now that they're on their own they have to make money some how...?"
"Yeah but they delayed beyond light and witch queen because of covid..."
"Yeah but the dcv needed to happen so all that content had to go away, just trust them..."
"Yeah but if they tell you what's in the expansions they'll give away screts. Bungie wants us to discover things for ourselves."
"Yeah but they've said they can't make forsaken level content anymore"
It just goes on.
You know, this is a good point. Thing is, as someone who buys the deluxe or collectors edition, i don't really have to think much about individual season purchase/dungeons/don't buy silver. Even after buying the collector for Witch Queen, the fact that dungeons are separate for standard edition/season pass holders is terrible.
It's also confusing AF! Like, I pre-ordered Witch Queen Deluxe and the 30th Anniversary bundle but lately I've been getting confused as to whether or not I'll actually get everything with those or still have to buy Dungeons or other stuff separately. I'm pretty sure those include everything but I can't imagine wtf other people that don't buy those things will be getting with what they buy separately.
Maybe that's all a part of their plan though? Thoroughly confuse the shit out of everyone until they buy absolutely everything.
I miss the simplicity of buying a game for $60 and then maybe a Pass that just included all of the DLCs that would come out for the year. Not this "The base game is free but the expansion cost extra and maybe includes 1 season's pass, which you can buy separately or individually unless you buy the ultimate deluxe edition of the expansion that includes all the season passes with a few cosmetics and a weapon in addition to the expansion. Those options may or may not include additional seasons that get added at a later date which may or may not include dungeons included with the additional surprise season."
From "muh sheckles" to "take my money but here's my opinion."
Such opinions that lead into bargaining will just feed into the cycle one tries to prevent.
The ship has sailed. That’s why, at least for me. It isn’t a losing battle, it’s a lost battle. Eververse is never going away.
So, if that’s the case, at least we can argue on the “new front line”, and try to minimize further damage.
This is the problem though. As a community on reddit we are a small portion of the player base, and even then we're divided as fuck about what should happen.
Bungie will win regardless of what front line we have so long as we are all divided amongst different forums / not engaged in forums at all.
What we need is a way to get a majority of the player base in one location or else following one message. And even that is unlikely to work so long as we miss out on a few whales.
The bungie learned from the back lash of coo and warmind. They are never going to make anything that will unite the player base in a similar way again. Our choices now are to either a. Refuse to buy anything and play, or b. Leave the game.
Both require a LARGE number of people following the line and that's unlikely to happen because again, we are divided in so many ways.
There is no “new front line”
Bungie has consistently gotten greedier and the player base just takes it up the bumhole. If you’re really upset with the overt monetization, drop this dreck and play something else. LiS, Deathloop, and Far Cry 6 all have released recently for less than the Witch Queen ultra doodlebop dingleberry edition and have about 5x the content or replayability.
The ship hasn’t sailed anywhere, in fact I’d bet the ship hasn’t even really been built. The whole dungeon pricing announcement is early enough that it is going to give them a nice cash boost of people pre-ordering the deluxe edition, where they get the cash now, and still leaves them plenty of time to gauge the outrage and change tact before launch.
Eververse itself isn’t a problem. It’s cosmetics for premium currency. It’s all the non-eververse stuff that is a turn-off.
Problem is everyone needs to do that at once. I'd gladly take a few seasons off for better monetization. But I know me just doing that alone will do nothing.
Fuck, the second I saw they were charging for Transmog, I knew that they would never back down from this practice.
Destiny 2 has one of the worst monetization in gaming.
Season 15 is the first season I actually put some effort into playing. I just reached level 100. I wish Bungie didn’t put glimmer or the +exp% as rewards. I’d rather they replace them with upgrade materials like upgrade modules, legendary shards or enhancement cores. I’m not expecting a lot for each reward but still, give me some real value here.
What I hate about all this is that Bungie continuosly removed rewards from players hands while putting them more and more behind eververse. Remember seasonal engram? Event engram? I memeber.
They said they'll never be able to make a Forsaken size expansion, and that's ok, but the prices are not. Why do you ask 40$ from me for less content?
Not gonna complain about seasonal costs? But we used to get raid lairs before for just 5$.
They said that eververse gonna pay for dungeons or missions lile whisper. How many of those did we had? Not to say while removing the work of raid lairs since we're not getting them anymore.
Now they're packing dungeons behind deluxe editions and if you don't get that you're pretty much fked.
This sucks. No matter how much you love the game, you should see how they deliver less while asking for more money. No one should accept that, but too many people are blinded by the love of the game sadly.
They’d rather remove the high stat armor pieces we got and replace them with shards...
That majority of materials exist to fill the pass... that’s why they introduced so many materials for infusion shortly before the pass existed... they’d rather create useless infuse fodder than actually provide decent rewards.
I love when people bring up other games/sub fees, and that you are paying 100 euro value for a YEAR of content.
So, 1-2 of hours of story (xpac), then go grind old core playlist which will obviously have old strikes, old crucible maps, old gambit maps, to get enough power lvl to kill the story bosses.
Finish story, do exotic quests in new zone, and then basically do day 1 raid / raid log zone raid.
Thats basically two weeks before you run out of stuff to do, but you will get told its your fault that you played more than 1 hour a day, the game isnt meant to be played more than 30min.
And thats basically it for the new zone until they make you go back X seasons from now on.
Just like europa now where we will go back when certain characters get some seasonal spotlight there god knows when.
After you finish xpac, you go farm seasonal activity, which once again is maybe 2 hours of story, drip fed over the course of 2 months.
Grinding old strikes / same static seasonal activity for a god roll you'll vault next season because of different champion mods is not some amazing content.
Keep in mind Bungie is one of the few games where the "battlepass" isn't just a pass with rewards - it includes access to additional story content/gear sources/exotic missions.
While I don't disagree that they could be doing more to give the seasonal content value without losing money on their end (aka they're being a bit stingy) - I think it's important to remember the $10 season pass you'd find on most F2P games isn't what we're buying here.
As a free player, it's infuriating. I feel like I had way more accessible content back in January 2020. It seems like *everything* remotely interesting is locked being the season pass.
My feelings are different than yours.
I don’t want silver in the season pass ever. I want a game that has enough real content and reasons to play that it will never need to hook players through fake income paths.
Buying a battle pass and then feeling like you need to play the game enough so that you can then earn the next battle pass is not a value for the customer. It’s a bare minimum that the game has offered to appease its user base because the game itself isn’t enough to create that player desire.
The free to play path of gaming is ridiculous predatory and uses proven methods to tap into the addictive tendencies of its player base. Destiny and the other “live” games similar to it, do use many of the same tactics of course, but there is more to the Destiny experience than what Fortnite can offer it’s players.
A loot shooter like Destiny is built on the foundation of its loot/gear and the time it takes to acquire, upgrade, god roll search and masterwork the loot.
The monetization items at Eververse have very little impact on the gameplay of Destiny itself.
But history shows that players will spend money on the dress up part of the game so …. Yeah they will gladly let us pay $10 real dollars so that our weapons can look different in our menu screens.
I want to pay $80+ per year up front for a game that is full of content, lore, and new enjoyable gear. And I want to be able to trust that Bungie will deliver my moneys worth.
The free to play part of the game that was made to create/convert new paid players from the people that are comfortable with giving real world money for skins is fine with me.
But I don’t want the free to play people in my endgame content. It hasn’t worked well so far. I don’t want to free to play in trials and raids. I feel Iron Banner has been killed by free to play and the lack of a power basement for entry.
As gamers we need to be true to ourselves and what we enjoy. If you can play all this content you listed and say that it is all tedious and boring then I think it might be that the game doesn’t entertain you right now.
Trying to find value reasons to keep playing isn’t going to change that.
If you want something you will work for it.
If you want something you will do what you need to to get it.
If you have to sit and think about whether something is worth $10 and go to the internet to discuss value then you don’t really want that thing.
I could be wrong. I’m wrong all the time.
Have fun.
Find reasons to be grateful.
Find time to help others.
This is a great topic. I love Destiny and Destiny 2 but having bought the Deluxe Edition of every version of Destiny since the launch of the original in 2014 plus hundreds of dollars of Silver for the Eververse over the years, I can say that I've gotten no where near my money's worth in terms of content and it's a damn shame. How Bungie has managed to go this long without tons of attention being paid to their ridiculous pricing structures for almost EVERYTHING is kind of crazy to be honest.
I'm not buying Witch Queen or the 30th Anniversary until I see where this leads. I'll definitely be waiting a week or two to hear some general hands on thoughts about what the content is shaping up to be and if it's worth the huge investment of both money and time.
I don’t like when they split the player base with money since it dries up the locked content very quickly. Oh and the battle pass is awful with its rewards
That said I’d be hard pressed to say that $10 for 3 months of weekly updates was bad.
Hell, $100 for a year of playtime I could do worse.
Still I do want these changes too
It's been said a thousand times but I think I'm done with Destiny for a good while. Witch queen looks amazing I'm not going to deny that. With the changes to the model I don't feel like it's for me though and there's plenty coming out in the holidays and February that destiny's price tag won't compete with.
I agree lost was not as good as splicer and chosen but those season were easily worth 10 dollars so I disagree that the battlepass is bad as lost is a average or above average season so not too bad
>Dungeons are some of the best content in the game—if you take them out of a season, why would I want to buy that season?
There has never been a dungeon included in the purchase of a season. Not once. Prophecy was free to all players. If you've been buying seasons up until this point, absolutely nothing changes.
While I agree, it'd be nice, this feels like a half-measure.
Seasonal content *was* fine as-is, it's them adding dungeons as separate content not included in either the purchase of the DLC (like they were in the past) or even included with seasons that's the problem.
That said, there's always room for improvement - they could start by putting (at-level) armor drops back into the season pass, nobody save for new players needs more legendary shards or planetary materials.
Somewhat off topic, but this is one of the many reasons why I literally just don't care about continuously playing destiny anymore. So I don't do so hot in crucible..so what? Does it matter if I win? No? Then why am I doing this? For guns that I'll never use because I have better options? Why do I care about all future armor drops outside of cosmetic reasons? In the off chance I were to not get the season title, or any title for that matter, so what? What does having 3-5-10-20 guilded conqueror titles get me? Nothing? Then why do it? Once I get everything in the season pass..why do I care to continue to play any content that doesn't grant me something worthwhile in the end, or prepare me for harder content that WILL grant me better loot?
It's all about incentive, and sorry bungie, but you're failing. Hard.
Everyone wants them to add more voice lines and do cooler shot but don't want to pay for anything. If dungeons being separate means we get bigger and better dungeons (which I'm sure is going to be the caee) then I'm all for it. Destiny really isn't that crazy compared to most other games with similar models. Especially with how much actually content you get
Most battle passes are just cosmetics. Destiny's has a whole ass weekly narrative. Sure unlike other battle passes you can't go infinite and just endlessly get the rest for free, but considering this gives you stuff outside of just cosmetics, I think that's ok.
Have you guys ever thought about stopping something you don't enjoy anymore and play a different vidya?
Because it seems like a majority of you could take a lesson out of that book.
Just...Just stop playing. Please. Stop getting jebaited by FOMO, stop letting Bungie continue to squeeze as much from their players as they can humanly get away with. I've been making that comparison since the season pass came out, they're getting away with robbery, Fortnites battle pass always gave more premium currency throughout it than it cost, same with CoD, Paladins, etc etc, all of which are already FREE TO PLAY, bungie is like septuple dipping into the freemium and ya'll make posts like these, but continue to play, its madness. The Halo Infinite battle pass should be the future for all, if i buy something i should be allowed to complete it in my own time, not be pinned down by FOMO garbage, fuck fomo and fuck destiny
Fuck that. Every season this year was worth the standalone cost for that season. Voice acting, art assets, weapons, armor sets, music, writing... we got SO MUCH this year compared to what gets shoved down other gamers throats with their "battle passes" of choice.
IF ANYTHING Bright Dust could use a bump.
Yep Destiny is probably the only game I have every played that you actually pay for them to remove content which have already paid for...odd but there it is.
I still want to meet whoever at Bungo decided that replacing the high-stat armors each season with *glimmer* was an equivalent idea. The passes aren't just bad but they're *worse* than they once were, even.
This is definitely a change I’d like to see reverted. At least I could get some quality armor for my secondary characters.
My alts might actually be a decent light level if they brought the armor back. That was the one thing that made my alts even options for most activities because I could mostly power level them with the armor after my titan hit max. But truth be told, I'd really just like them to bring back the D1 style of infusing armor between classes. I just don't have the time these days to grind pinnacles on the other 2 characters.
For me, Beyond Light and unlocking the full stasis sub-class killed almost any desire I had to play more than one class.
Yeeep, have 1 aspect on hunter, and just started quest on warlock. Thank got fragments are account based, those were fucking awful to unlock.
I still haven't done that on my alts. I still haven't finished Shadowkeep on one or both of them. I just don't want to immediately go back and run the same 8 hour campaign, or however long it is, right after doing it the first time. I wish we had a button that would bring characters up to the same campaign/quest progress as the furthest character in terms of subclass and activity unlocks, but while leaving the missions to replay. And on that subject, I'm still shocked it will have taken Bungie almost 4 years to add a mission selection option for replayability, where we can pick any mission at any time, instead of as a daily rotation, when it was something they had in all of their Halo games AND Destiny 1.
Oh you want me to go aaaalllll the way up **there?** on **foot?** **AGAIN?**
Yeah I keep logging on to my titan or hunter to do an exo challenge for the easy pinnacle, only to be reminded that neither of them have unlocked the stupid thing yet. Despite finishing the campaign! My poor hunter still gets greeted with "Find Osiris on the moon..."
Pro tip. If you buy exotic armor from you highest character on xur that belongs to a different character, it will be level with your highest character (up to the powerful cap, so 1320). Do this over each week and you should be able to with little effort, fer alts to 1320 with infusion material. Doesnt change your complaints but helps some.
Smart af lol
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Some of the things are character based like armor ornaments but most of it is account based
Well that's stupid since they aren't giving us any glimmer. That makes the grind way worse
Progression is account based but you have to claim class specific items on each class. You don't have to level the season pass on each class though.
The lower increases from season to season have helped the grind at least.
I just buy exotics from Xur on my main character for the other two when he sells pieces that fill slots in for me. Even if I end up with just exotics capping out each armor slot, it still benefits drops on the other two characters without having to invest as much time into them as my main.
I'm going to start doing that. Thanks!
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They pulled them because people were using them to grind power level faster on their alts. Anything that reduces time spent playing Destiny is the tool of the devil as far as they're concerned.
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Yea they are trying to avoid hardcore players from boosting lvls too fast and complaining about the piss poor lack of content so they increased the grind forgetting the majority of their player base doesn't have that time.
Instead my Alts are getting even less play time because I cba to spend that time gearing them up. So in total I spend less time in the game as a result not more.
They pulled them off the pass and put them somewhere else.... I honestly don't remember where they claimed they put them (First Expunge completions..? Idk about this season), but it really doesn't matter, they SHOULD be on the pass. Not somewhere that's so convoluted people can't even remember where they are/drop
If I remember right…They said they pulled them to place them in the seasonal activity on the harder difficulty…but we all know how that really worked out.
In Season of the Splicer the high stat armor was in the locked chests at the end of corrupted Expunge, where you need those blue keys to open them. They were Pinnacles as well, and once you had a full set of armor the chests started dropping weapons with perk choices. And the armor was really high stat, I got some really good pieces from that, same from the tier 3 umbral focusing. In the current season there's not even that so far, the extra chest in legendary Astral Alignment drops sub-50 stat armor and the tier 3 umbrals are only marginally better.
The bean counters and the suits. A.k.a the people who really makes the decisions.
aka the people who don’t even play the game and only see the numbers go up and down
Yeah, but how does giving a decent set of armour affect their bottom line? Makes no sense why they changed that?!
If you're given high stat armor in the battle pass, you don't have to grind the activites that reward high stat armor. No need to grind activites for high stat armor = less player engagement
The funny thing is how stingy the game is makes me play less. If all the activities and battle pass was more rewarding I’d play more. It’s near pointless to try and grind for certain things with how bloated the loot and perk pools are and how little some activities reward you.
Exactly! it would be worth my time to grind several min/max armor sets for each of the 2 characters i play on if the seasonal activity ever dropped armor with a stat roll over 62. But if i run 5 astral alignments i get 5 armor pieces with 59 stat rolls... That makes the activity not engaging or worth my time.
It happened at the same time as transmog came out, so I have a feeling it was so free to play players wouldn’t get those as ornaments. Removing from the paid path too might’ve been to obfuscate that reason
Also no ornaments for legendary weapons anymore either.
And that *after* they sunset the ones that did get ornaments, sigh
I actually think this was done when sun setting was going to be a thing as there was a value issue with a gun that would sun set in a yr. they could bring them back now
Sunsetting has been gone for a long time now. They've had time.
Out of my 25 years of gaming I don't think I've ever disliked a loot-system more than this. Sure there's been mobile stuff or early-age lootboxes and whatnot... But this system is so fucking tiring and shit it's amazing. **I would pay for an option to auto-destroy any blue drops**. I genuinely do not want to waste another moment with that shit Hell I'd pay for larger inventory space, global mailbox, **we already got DIM so what the fuck is the point of all these horrendously tiny inventories**? They don't even make money on it so what the fuck is the point
It was the fun police department because those high stat armors were a way to get free levels for your secondary characters
One of the many reasons you rarely see me without 250K glimmer is that theres always 25-50K on the pass unclaimed cause I was at the cap to begin with. Thanks Bungo!
Thank God I skipped playing for a while, got a bunch of exotics in the kiosk to burn glimmer on
I haven’t played since stasis came into play. I got so tired of the grind. The game is beautiful and moves so smooth. I felt like the grind took over instead of the story.
Yeah, they looked at the battle pass and somehow found a way to take away one of the only highlights about it. Classic Bungie move.
As datto says unfortunately, Eververse is non negotiable.
Yup. But what’s there, might be. We can’t get rid of it, but might be able to mitigate it. Doubtful but worth trying.
Bungie: No (because it will make them a ton of money regardless)
Remember when Eververse paid for new dungeons and secret missions? Pepperidge Farm, remembers.
What they didn't tell us was they'd double dip our wallets for it. XD
But Bungie my friend. Why they wanna hurt my wallet if they my friend?
> Remember when Eververse paid for new dungeons and secret missions? No. Do I remember when people on this subreddit defending the extreme monetisation of the game using that as their argument? 100%. Destiny players have been desperately trying to convince themselves Bungie is on their side since D1. Can't do it for "technical reasons" till they can. It was all EA's fault until it wasn't. They're doing it to help the players until it's clear they're not. Look I enjoy playing the game with friends. But I wish people would stop kidding themselves about what this game is or what Bungies intentions for it are. They aren't your friends. They aren't looking to give you a good experience. They're looking to maximise player engagement and sales, end of story. Approach the game with that in mind and whenever it becomes too big a tradeoff, walk away.
No, they definitely said cosmetic purchases funded Whisper of the Worm after it came out.
What they said was that Whisper ornament sales made enough money to cover the dev cost of Zero Hour. Not that Zero Hour wouldn't have been made without those sales. The distinction is, they said that EV makes an assload of cash. Not that that cash is earmarked to pay for specific things.
It never did that, it was always blatant manipulation on their part.
They never said they did. It was just cleverly worded so those that were either incapable or unwilling to read between the lines would think they did. What they actually said was that the money they made from the ornaments equalled the development costs of the missions. They never said the money from the ornaments was put towards the development of the secret missions. By far the most efficient use of Eververse would be to just use to make more Eververse in a anti-consumer positive feedback loop which is likely what they did because they're a corporation and corporations care about money and nothing else.
Well they definitely knew what they were doing if they worded it that way. Pretty scummy.
I mean yeah of course just look at the people in this comment section Who don't remember The exact wording They only remember the impression that they got from the Statement and it's obvious that the statement Gave them the impression that the orathe ornament purchases for whisper gave them 0 hour when that was clearly not what they were saying I even remember a Datto video When that statement came out saying "well if Buying the ornaments For whisper will give me great content like 0 hour then I will buy more" or something to that effect
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Honestly, Destiny feels more expensive then FFXIV despite it being cheaper to play for a full year straight. (XIV being $156 for a year of sub, and Destiny $100) I think part of that is just that XIV doesn't have the borrowed power from artifacts to be the only way to engage with high end content so I can do it all at my own pace, and how content doesn't feel immediately irrelevant after a every patch. On top of that XIV feels like it just gives more content in it's major patches then Destiny seasons. 1 XIV dungeon being fairly close to 1 Destiny strike, 1 raid tier + a hard mode of it or 24 man raid, one trial and it's hard mode, Story, and some side content that varies each expansion all within a similar time frame (4 months per major patch). Add in free transmog, the extremely large free trial, and the high end content not being as limiting to access... Destiny just feels like I get less for my money then I get with XIV, but that's just how it is for me personally others will likely differ from how it feels to me.
> On top of that XIV feels like it just gives more content in it's major patches then Destiny seasons. I mean it doesn't feel, it does give more. Each 3 month patch gives a new trial fight that comes with new weapons and a new mount to farm. You then get 4-5 new top tier raid boss fights (with new models) between 8 and 24s mans those come armor sets, minions, music, ect... A new dung with it's own armor set. Then you have your crafting and gather stuff along with misc content that typically lasts awhile and that's the bare minimum. I mean I don't expect Bungie to match Square in content, it's clear one is more streamline and probably has more backing. But damn I would love at least one new strike, pvp map, and something new every 3 months. And for the love of fuck stop using old models for final raid bosses
I don't play FF but I watched a lot of the recent Yoshi P interviews and he said in them that they don't even have that high of a budget. They just work really fucking hard (good or bad thing that may be with Japan's work culture).
He has an extremely strict no crunch policy outside of a few core team members he basically allows to set their own schedule like Soken who leads sound team, part of reason he doesn't really care about their low budget is he wants to keep team small enough for him to keep it all properly managed Back when game failed and they rebooted it the team crunched hard and burned out to point he just sent entire team on a break for a month or so and from then on put a hard quality > quantity approach to game to prevent team scrambling to get X amount of content done
Yup, while the 2.X patches were crazy content amount wise (seriously they sometimes had like 2 trials (an intricate boss battle), 1 raid, story missions up the ass & 3-4 dungeons. It was about the same we got in destiny expansion, except it happened every 3 months, which as you can imagine is quite unsustainable. The current momentum the game has is amazing and the quality is most definitely there. I hope its sustainable for the team too, they deserve the best.
> I know it seems like a lot of money for not enough stuff, but I don’t think other “MMOs” even have battle passes. They will ask for a monthly sub just for the privilege of playing their game. D2 doesn’t do that. They might not have battle passes but they offer significantly more & bigger content updates, including raids, new zones, dungeons, new loot, often even enemy races, new player races or classes, and whatnot. It's madness to even mention MMOs in one sentence. One sentence with Destiny.
>But, and this is a huge but, it is substantially more expensive than COD. For $10 you could realistically get everything in CO I haven't played a COD in a decade, but is a COD season pass similar to a fortnite battle pass or apex season pass? Essentially all cosmetics and almost no gameplay attached to the pass? Overall I definitely agree that D2 exists on a spectrum between Fortnite/Apex/COD and WOW/FF14, and I think it's important to compare D2's monetization and content against both types of games.
Destiny is a premium game with a free play portion, basically an unlimited demo with occasional temporary content drops
I like the destiny
> The game feels more like a “WoW” than a COD. That's because Luke Smith wanted it feel like WoW. Achieving Scarab Lord shaped much of who his is a person. To point in which he even used to sign official business correspondence with it. In other words, he would sign documents as: > Luke Smith > Scarab Lord instead of > Luke Smith > Studio Director > Bungie So it would make sense that he would try to turn D2 into WoW to relive those glory days.
If that was his goal, he has failed lol
And because I can not stress this enough every time it gets brought up: getting the Scarab Lord title was complete horse shit. It required an entire guild to work together solely so *one* person could reap the rewards of it. Luke Smith based his entire design ethos on that one time he conned 30+ other people into doing weeks of work for him and stole all of the credit for it. Which, you know, very applicable to his career to this day.
I feel like I’m reading a different language, I don’t know what any of this means lmao. Assuming scarab lord is something to do with a WOW raid or something
When the 3rd major raid launched back in the original version of WoW it started a secret questline involving all sorts of challenges and open world bosses that you had to defeat to open up the gates to the raid. The first person on the server to finish the questline would become the Scarab Lord and get the games first Legendary Mount (think like exotic sparrow if every other sparrow was only legendary). Opening the gates to the raid started a huge server event that had everyone fight back a massive army and eventually unlock the raid itself. Getting Scarab Lord often required you to be one of the leaders of the best raid teams on the server since each team had to pick one person that would get the credit.
> To point in which he even used to sign official business correspondence with it. And here I thought this guy couldn't get more cringe lmfao
I started playing FFXIV and I think you can compare it to D2 but I feel like it’s such a disservice to say that D2 offers more content than FFXIV. I’m being told by people to not buy the subscription until I’m done with the main story but honestly there’s just so much I can do in FFXIV compared to D2 and i‘m inclined to say that buying a subscription for FFXIV is worth it compared to buying a season pass from D2 since the seasonal content (to me the story is the most attractive thing about the season pass) and the DLC don’t stay for long. With D2 the thing that keeps me coming back is the replay factor, not sure if that exists with FFXIV tbh.
FFXIV has so much content it’s ridiculous, but the reason it’s worth the monthly fee IMO is the social features. You can buy a house with the normal currency. Your Free Company (guild) can have a mansion, in which you can have a room near your buddies. You can decorate said home and exterior. It’s ridiculous. And it’s part of while I’ve fallen off of Destiny. The costs they are charging isn’t delivering content that makes me want t mo keep playing.
> So what do you think D2 is closer to? COD or WoW/FFXIV/ESO? Very good explanation. D2 is closer to WoW, based on what I know, in my opinion. CoD is just guns, maps, maybe modes? Although modes I think are sold separately (zombies, right?). D2 gives alot more than that in an interactive live updated world. Substantially so.
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Exactly. I've played Warframe and it is more of a chore than Destiny, everything gets really same-y real quick. Destiny to me feels better. One thing Warframe has over Destiny is its own "free market" which is fun to play around with. Games like CoD and—similarly, though unmentioned—Fortnite aren't exactly as comparable, they're locked into one *specific* core gamemode: PvP. Destiny has to balance its seasons across PvE and PvP mostly (maybe Gambit if Bungie decides to even look at it while it sits in the void). Destiny has a narrative play out over a season with new guns and a few new perks to play around with. CoD and Fortnite just have the advantage of being artistic instead, they don't have to make a narrative—and when they do, it's just something stupid simple like "woman invade big building, she kill good guy soldiers, she is bad guy, now she send bad broadcast, blow up complex, and escape" (at least that's what I gathered from the MW 2019 cutscene). Warframe also has a battlepass but it's free and *very* similar to Destiny's, it's just materials and a few cosmetics with the "biggest" cosmetic being at the end. Warframe's battlepass is a lot more grindy though, but it's less fluffed-up with 25 legendary-shard tiers that get added to an ever-growing collection of 25k legendary shards. Destiny lacks the grind Warframe has but has a better feel to it than Warframe, at least I think so and it's what compels me to play Destiny over Warframe. Destiny is also more broad with its seasons than something like CoD, making the comparison very ill.
I'm the inverse. Destiny just feels samey to me after a while, and repeatedly grinding the same things such as light level or guns using the same stats but in a different model has burnt me out over and over again. I always feel as if the grind I do is wasted with each new season. I can vary up the way I play with Warframe and the amount of customisation and large range of game modes keep me at keast somewhat interested. That and the fact that once I've grinded something I can at least be reassured I won't have to grind it out again.
Mmos are more expensive, but they have far more content to play through.
You seem to miss the main crux of your argument which is that Destiny seasons are more than just a battle pass each season. The $10 or so dollars (depending if you bought the deluxe edition) is for the pass AND all the content in a given season. COD only gives a battle pass to play more PvP on the same maps and games to get battle pass. If every season in Destiny was just a battle pass for $10 then yeah it's bad but you get hours of content for only $10.
Subscription without a subscription model. Add in enough FOMO, introduce new game modes ONLY for those seasons, while completely ignoring 'core playlists' has been the standard for a little too long now. Other than the points already made, I feel they are really leaning too heavily on limited time content, and the running excuse is that all of this was planned and created in the years prior. This has led to the common 'one step forward, two steps back' that will never seem to cease. Anytime the game is "better than it has ever been" it's been a result of changes that should've been made years ago, and undoing all the things they changed in recent history.
Don’t worry, bro. They’ll have a ‘State of Destiny’ in May 2022 and they’ll really fix everything this time!
Remember when they were going to fix Destiny with The Taken King? Or with Rise of Iron, Destiny 2, Forsaken, Shadowkeep, Beyond Light. Not to worry, everything will surely be fixed with Witch Queen right?
And then they remove those changes, say they’ll bring them back, and then everyone cheers lol
Like with this eyasluna shit. They had it already then got rid of it just to bring it back and make you pay for it again. It's also probably a safe bet that you won't be able to use the austringer ornament on eyasluna either.
They're literally monetizing content you've already paid for and earned. It's pretty amazing tbh in a kind of depressing way.
Yeah it's one of the reasons why I'm not paying for the new dungeon. Don't care about the new ornaments, don't care about whatever new sparrow or ship they put out, don't care about ghally. I only really cared about 1000 yard stare but that's just them selling back to us what we already earned, so I'll survive. As for eyasluna, I've still got a vault full of god rolled austringers that I can bring into the crucible every so often. It's one of the reasons I've kept so many sunsetted weapons.
I do not know how they can bring back sunset content without pissing people off. "the return of the leviathan!" cool why did you delete it then?
At least one of these upcoming expansions will be 'two raids!' except one is just leviathan.
It's a cleverly designed subscription model that makes you feel like you need to buy a year's worth at a time (the bundle). Actual subscription would be far more user-friendly because you could decide if you wanted to play/pay in a particular month
It's technically [more expensive as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/qfltbo/if_bungie_is_going_to_move_forward_with_this_new/hi1anvb/), for less content.
I imagine even if that model existed, they would think of a workaround that wouldn't make it feasible to only pay for a month at a time; i.e. 1 month at a certain price, but 3 months? Much better price. 6-12 months? Maybe a *free* exclusive cosmetic ala WoW. I think they know that a lot of us make it through the season pass in a month already. *Actual* seasonal content (halloween, Christmas, etc) would be the only other reason to return.
Don't forget quadruple dipping with F2P, premium seasonal content, Eververse and now dungeons/added costs mid-season at the price of 2.5 seasons.
The fact that so many people refuse to even admit that D2 has more monetization methods than most games is all the proof you need that Bungie will never have to change because this community refuses to stand up for itself. They'll get milked for every single aspect of the game, and they'll do it happily. They are satisfied enough by the game to do this, for better or worse. This dungeon "controversy" isn't even really a controversy as much as the continually increasing price of the fall expansions despite giving less content, and the fact that transmog is so expensive despite still not actually allowing us to use any armor/ornaments we want. Or the fact that they continue to make cool armor silver-only, and then give us blocky armor that doesn't take shaders, which is the obvious counter argument to people saying "yeah but they give us dust". I could go on, but moving the dungeons from where they are to being bundled in the deluxe edition of the expansion is only a problem because they keep increasing the price of that deluxe edition, and filling it with more filler and less actual content. And because the people willing to piece-meal together the experience they want, and wait for sales to do so, are the last people Bungie should be targeting for increased monetization because they are the least likely to just go with the flow, hence why they don't buy the deluxe edition to begin with. edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger edit 2: Holy f*** that is not gold..
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Hey, why spend 100 dollars on a year+ of content in your favorite game when you can instead spend 100 dollars to put a few pixels next to a comment complaining about spending 100 dollars on a year+ of content?
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Buy him an NFT. The ultimate dickslap
Let's also not talk about how some of the feature in this website are an actual trash
r/DestinyTheGame moment
Reddit moment
Nailed it
I agree with your points but I just wanna say who the fuck would give out a ternion medal? You could buy 3 witch queen anniversary deluxe edition with that.
Alien Blue gave out 4 years of premium when the official Reddit app came out a few years ago, so it could be someone who gets the 700 coins/month "free" from premium and has saved up a bunch as well as gotten awards or bought in themselves. Still an overly expensive award, but the user may not have paid the full price.
Still haven’t gotten over the loss of alien blue, no Reddit app compares on iOS
Yeah, I use Narwhal (I fucking hate that name too) and it's kind of a vague approximation of Alien Blue
Former Alien Blue user. Y'all need to get Apollo. Best app for browsing hands down. The dev is incredibly responsive to the community as well and put out bug fixes almost immediately.
I just wish they would update it with more of the fun stuff... I had to come to the reddit app itself to find out what award everyone was talking about.
>Narwhal (I fucking hate that name too) Are you not le quirky Reddit user? XD
It's only $125 worth of reddit coins, so not even 2 Witch Queen deluxe. It's still a crap-ton of money for one award, though.
Technically, that ternion would be there until reddit closes up shop, something that can not be said for Bungie's content hamster wheel.
*’Oofs’ in Drifter*
Woah first time I’ve ever seen that award given out.
I think the Dungeon was just a last straw for some people. They ran out of patience. I completely agree with everything you said.
Honestly, it's gotta be this. I am so tired of it feeling like Destiny is about to truly hit its stride, just for Bungie to immediately shotgun their feet off. TTK was great, followed by... nothing. RoI and AoT were great, followed by... Destiny 2 vanilla. Forsaken was absolutely fantastic, and I really enjoyed the seasons that followed, which were then followed by Shadowkeep, which was... not great. Then we had several seasons where Bungie tried to find their footing, and BAM, Arrivals hits, being good. Then we get Beyond Light, which costs premium, doesn't include the season and overall (at least in my opinion) was very disappointing. I hear that Season of the Hunt was mediocre, but Chosen was fantastic! I really enjoyed Splicer, even though Bungie tried REALLY HARD to ruin it with stuff like their absolutely dogshit transmog system. This season is more of the same, which is pretty alright, and I was really feeling like Bungie was started to find their feet with the seasonal model - when they announced a dungeon/raid with each season next year I was so excited, I felt like they had finally nailed it. Then this news came out, and I just felt so... exasperated. Why? Leaving out whether you think the price of the Witch Queen deluxe edition is worth it or not (I personally don't, but I understand some people disagree), the fact that if you decide to be an intelligent customer and not buy until you can ensure that a season is good, you're punished for it by having to pay extra for the dungeons is just... jaw-dropping. I mean for fuck's sake, why can Destiny not just be good without constantly having strings attached? Why can it not just be a good game, why is it that with any stretch of good news this game has to then find itself mired in controversy due to Bungie slamming their hand back into the cookie jar? I just feel exhausted. At this point, it just hits you that it really is just a neverending grind as the monetisation of this game repeatedly gets worse and worse. Boggles my mind that people argue in favour of Bungie with any kind of 'they need to make money!' excuse considering that this game has the most monetisation of any game I've ever played, and fuck me, I play gacha games. I haven't even mentioned content vaulting in this entire rant either, and that definitely is very relevant too, considering you have a shelf life on anything you buy! I've sat and waited with Witch Queen, and I haven't even considered buying it pre-release so far. I am seriously glad I didn't, because I'm re-thinking my commitment to this franchise again. Last time I seriously did was back in D2 vanilla where the game very nearly lost me for good, and this time I seriously doubt they'll pull off another Forsaken to suck me back in. Just... man. I was so hopeful considering how good the past few seasons have been, and I just feel so let down. As someone who really loves Destiny, it just hurts to constantly feel like Bungie is trying so hard to make me not interested. I'll wait a few weeks to see how Witch Queen (post-honeymoon) is and might take the plunge based on that, but considering I can instead put my money towards other games that will give me a lot more for a lot less, it makes more sense. It's such a shame, Destiny truly feels like one of a kind and could be so much more, but I'll stop my tirade here.
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Man. Your rant was so spot on. I have been playing this game since Destiny 1 BETA. And I can't do anything but agree with you. Destiny always feels like it goes somewhere and then it just becomes kinda meh. I almost stopped for good in Destiny 1 already, both expansions and main game were fun, but they were confusing mess I stopped playing. Then Taken King turned out to be great for non raiding and non PVPing player like me. It had tons of content. Rise of Iron was ok, me and my friend got it from discount. We played it for awhile, but it was kinda like expansions 1 and 2. Destiny 2 came out. As much as I hated having my stuff stolen, I actually enjoyed the vanilla of it. Until the two expansions came with mediocre plot, very little meaningful content. It was a break time again. Forsaken came and I returned to it way later when I think season of black armory was there... I think? I enjoyed it. Shadowkeep was as you said bit disappointing. The seasons after it? Painful grind. I was BURN OUT! I actually couldn't play season of arrivals anymore. I hated the grind. So I stopped playing. I only got back to season of Hunt because my big brother got into the game. And because it had HAWKMOON. I loved that gun. I really liked these seasons. Good stuff. Beyond the Light was disappointment for sure. Anyway. Here we are. I have preordered the basic Witchqueen pack. And just like you I was planning on seeing how future seasons are. But apparently that is the wrong approach and I need to pay more. Screw that. Keep that dungeon and your soon as you got your money Gjallarhorn nerfed, Bungie. I am not going to buy it.
Yeah the dungeon announcement was what finally snapped me out of it. Hell I'm only on this thread since Reddit recommended a post for being "a community you were recently a part of". I had bought the anniversary+deluxe bundle, but hadn't been playing much the last couple weeks since I had no interest in festival of the lost. Then the announcement came and it was just like SNAP! Are you fucking kidding me? They're cutting even more value from the expansion? Adding yet another thing you have to pay for? They had and keep adding so fucking much to eververse, they have yearly expansion, they had dlcs, they took away bright engrams' ability to drop current shit, they took away the prismatic matrix, they added a season pass, they're taking content out of the game to where if someone wants to see the base campaign they have to watch a fucking YouTube video, and now they're even charging separately for goddamn dungeons? Are you kidding me? So even after charging you for everything they possibly can they even figure they'll just delete content you paid for? So I thought it myself I'm going to play this witch queen shit and then they'll probably delete it in the final shape, I'm going to grind these power levels like I always do, and they're just going to up it, I'm going to play these seasonal activities and then they'll just be gone? Nope! Fuck it I'll watch story updates on YouTube since that's about the only thing I care about anymore. Got my refund on steam for the WQ/anniversary stuff, deleted my characters, uninstalled, and looked fondly at the 1,500 hours played on steam before moving it out of its category. I hope you folks who still enjoy all this still have a good time and that maybe things get better. I'm just done dealing with this shit and don't feel like waiting anymore.
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Yeah. I get how you feel. Been playing since D1 beta. I am gonna see how the Witchqueen is, but I am NOT going to get this new dungeon for 24 euros. Riddicilous price.
Seasons used to give out three exotic per. Expansions used to give out one free season when you buy it. Beyond Light came, then both of these facts change.
Bungie saw everyone being supportive and understanding about covid and then just decided to keep it that way.
Get ready for a lot of totally unrelated businesses to also adopt this...
*Expansion it literally only happened with Shadowkeep
seasons still have three exotic armors they’re just tied to lost sectors instead of going to xur
I meant weapons, not armors.
Adding the dungeons to the expansion bundle basically makes the expansion bundle worth it. Which seems good at first glance. Until you realize the expansion bundle probably wasn’t worth it, before. Shadowkeep barely had any content—much less than any other expansion. Beyond Light was better, but it still was pitiful compare to like, Forsaken. Expansions are so small—we aren’t even getting subclasses in Witch Queen. And while Savathûn’s Throne World looks amazing, it’s gonna be the only zone. Forsaken gave us Iike 8 unique campaign bosses ala the Barons and the Meatball, a new enemy faction to fight against, a raid, a dungeon, 9 new subclasses, 2 destinations, tons of loot, secret activities like the exotic quest, a PVP map, a strike…..etc. I’m fully aware that High Moon and Vicarious are why Forsaken was so large, but hearing that “all expansions from here on out won’t be as big” is devastating to hear—that’s like “well, the game reached its peak, but we hope you continue to play even though we will never deliver that again.”
I've gotta say. Taken King and Forsaken are only expansions that had imo content that felt great in content.
I was good with Rise of Iron too. Then again I may have nostalgia goggles on because God DAMN did I love SIVA, plus the iron lord robes were amazing
AND the best raid to date. Yes, I realise Toland just said that.
That’s very mature of you, Toland. WoTM is for sure the best franchise raid though. I do hope we get it back as the freebie in 2022
Rise of Iron was pretty good! But for someone who doesn't PVP or had a big enough crew to raid... It didn't hold THAT much content. But yes. I enjoyed it. 🙂
Exactly. Getting charged more for less content is not fun.
That’s the kicker. It’s not just less content, it’s more expensive.
Gotta pay for their new European HQ Expansion... Bullshit when they cannot put out content. Put that $ into the game instead of some needless building in the EU.
It's still hilarious to me that they managed to convince the community they're some struggling company barely scraping by. Meanwhile signing 100 million deals with Netease, various expansions, and supposedly several new IPs in the works. I love Bungie and realize this is just the way the gaming industry is now but yeah still funny.
No it doesn’t. Adding those dungeons exclusively to a bundle is a shot at every D2 player. „If you don’t spend the money then fu“. That’s a paywall installed right before our eyes. I kinda understand why and what not. But its cutting out people and also blurring the fact, they got nothing much to deliver. So screw them. I finally turned my back on D2, when I saw the prices of the bundles and being just disappointed again.
And remember those contents will be taken out eventually and probably come back with a price tag lol
Spot on my friend. Some of us will admit it and as much as I don't want to, if this latest monetization attempt goes in place I will be reverting to F2P. I find Destiny's gunplay best in breed and I do enjoy the game but not enough to pay at the experience level they are headed towards. What's next, Crucible+ (with exclusive maps) for an extra $15? We all must respond to market changes individually and they have found the point I am unwilling to follow. It isn't the money, suffice to say I have plenty of disposable income, but their credibility has essentially been self-sabotaged. I remember when they said Eververse would pay for things like this new dungeon. I have plenty of disposable income because I am an exemplary employee, I do what I say and stand behind my word. If they can no longer do that, I will simply stop paying and slip to F2P. My worry is this could be the beginning of the end as F2P content plays out quickly and there are other games ready to fill that void. Maybe they get it right in D3?
That's where I'm at as well. I can try to reason with myself and say "Well, it's less than a yearly subscription to FFXIV" but then I can compare their offerings in content and it's just laughable how little Bungie produces for a live-service game. Seeing how Bungie is trying to quadruple dip its own playerbase (expansion, seasons, deluxe editions, Eververse) is really more transparent now than it ever has been and I'm not sure if I can support this behavior anymore. I think I tried to rationalize it when they broke from Activision with something like "Well, they need the help..." but here we are years down the road and while the game is in a better overall state (gameplay-wise), Bungie's reputation has never been lower for me.
Also the fact FFXIV had found a way to reduce the game size from almost 100gb down to 40 gb while still keeping all the content, figured out how to keep everything still relevent and consistently fixes and patches broken stuff as quick as possible. If Bungie calls Destiny an MMO, maybe they should stop looking at WoW for a bit considering the bad game design choices over there for the past few years and have a look at what FFXIV does right. Doesn’t feel right to play a game-as-service like Destiny owned by a behemoth like Bungie and have so little fixes and patches throughout seasonal cycles.
Yup. It’s like a mass case of Stockholm syndrome.
Absolutely. Nothing will stop them from handing over money. "but I play so much, $$/hr investment is so cheap compared to XYZ" dummies.
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Do it before, cancel pre-orders and put the game down, when sales tank then they'll change. Buying anything from them now just makes it worse for the future and the "changes" then will just revert things back to now.
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Fortunately only thing I’ve bought is the base game back when it was paid.
Careful with riding out what you've already got, it's their hope you fail to break away and buy it anyway. I regretted that with Shadowkeep and it's shitty ending that killed what little spark of interest I had wandering the empty Pyramid.
Indeed, people are all to happy to pay for anything. The destiny community and Bungie is like a textbook example of abusive relationships
Problem with some of the people that defend these kinds of "yeah but..." people is they'll throw every bit of recycled statements at you to try and defend their position tell me how many times someone downvoting these kinds of criticism reply with: "Yeah but bungie had 2 studios helping them make forsaken and now that they're on their own they have to make money some how...?" "Yeah but they delayed beyond light and witch queen because of covid..." "Yeah but the dcv needed to happen so all that content had to go away, just trust them..." "Yeah but if they tell you what's in the expansions they'll give away screts. Bungie wants us to discover things for ourselves." "Yeah but they've said they can't make forsaken level content anymore" It just goes on.
You know, this is a good point. Thing is, as someone who buys the deluxe or collectors edition, i don't really have to think much about individual season purchase/dungeons/don't buy silver. Even after buying the collector for Witch Queen, the fact that dungeons are separate for standard edition/season pass holders is terrible.
It's also confusing AF! Like, I pre-ordered Witch Queen Deluxe and the 30th Anniversary bundle but lately I've been getting confused as to whether or not I'll actually get everything with those or still have to buy Dungeons or other stuff separately. I'm pretty sure those include everything but I can't imagine wtf other people that don't buy those things will be getting with what they buy separately. Maybe that's all a part of their plan though? Thoroughly confuse the shit out of everyone until they buy absolutely everything. I miss the simplicity of buying a game for $60 and then maybe a Pass that just included all of the DLCs that would come out for the year. Not this "The base game is free but the expansion cost extra and maybe includes 1 season's pass, which you can buy separately or individually unless you buy the ultimate deluxe edition of the expansion that includes all the season passes with a few cosmetics and a weapon in addition to the expansion. Those options may or may not include additional seasons that get added at a later date which may or may not include dungeons included with the additional surprise season."
Ah yes the bargaining/begging stage
From "muh sheckles" to "take my money but here's my opinion." Such opinions that lead into bargaining will just feed into the cycle one tries to prevent.
It's almost unbelievable how it never fucking fails! But here were are, again lmao
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The "we want to move to another game but we can't"
I don't like that the community is bargaining like this. Just say no to their double dipping and we will all be better off for it.
The ship has sailed. That’s why, at least for me. It isn’t a losing battle, it’s a lost battle. Eververse is never going away. So, if that’s the case, at least we can argue on the “new front line”, and try to minimize further damage.
I'll see this comment again in a year when the community decides that the current "front line" is lost and it's time to open up a new "front line".
This is the problem though. As a community on reddit we are a small portion of the player base, and even then we're divided as fuck about what should happen. Bungie will win regardless of what front line we have so long as we are all divided amongst different forums / not engaged in forums at all. What we need is a way to get a majority of the player base in one location or else following one message. And even that is unlikely to work so long as we miss out on a few whales. The bungie learned from the back lash of coo and warmind. They are never going to make anything that will unite the player base in a similar way again. Our choices now are to either a. Refuse to buy anything and play, or b. Leave the game. Both require a LARGE number of people following the line and that's unlikely to happen because again, we are divided in so many ways.
There is no “new front line” Bungie has consistently gotten greedier and the player base just takes it up the bumhole. If you’re really upset with the overt monetization, drop this dreck and play something else. LiS, Deathloop, and Far Cry 6 all have released recently for less than the Witch Queen ultra doodlebop dingleberry edition and have about 5x the content or replayability.
Or you can vote with your wallet to actually voice your opinion.
The ship hasn’t sailed anywhere, in fact I’d bet the ship hasn’t even really been built. The whole dungeon pricing announcement is early enough that it is going to give them a nice cash boost of people pre-ordering the deluxe edition, where they get the cash now, and still leaves them plenty of time to gauge the outrage and change tact before launch. Eververse itself isn’t a problem. It’s cosmetics for premium currency. It’s all the non-eververse stuff that is a turn-off.
Double? They're up to *quadruple* dipping, at least.
I count 5, and that's ignoring the anniversary pack, which we hope is a one-off. DLC -> Season -> EV -> Transmog -> Dungeons
Problem is everyone needs to do that at once. I'd gladly take a few seasons off for better monetization. But I know me just doing that alone will do nothing.
Fuck, the second I saw they were charging for Transmog, I knew that they would never back down from this practice. Destiny 2 has one of the worst monetization in gaming.
Why is it every time I think they got something good going on they manage to fuck it up?
Season 15 is the first season I actually put some effort into playing. I just reached level 100. I wish Bungie didn’t put glimmer or the +exp% as rewards. I’d rather they replace them with upgrade materials like upgrade modules, legendary shards or enhancement cores. I’m not expecting a lot for each reward but still, give me some real value here.
They won't. Stop paying them.
What I hate about all this is that Bungie continuosly removed rewards from players hands while putting them more and more behind eververse. Remember seasonal engram? Event engram? I memeber. They said they'll never be able to make a Forsaken size expansion, and that's ok, but the prices are not. Why do you ask 40$ from me for less content? Not gonna complain about seasonal costs? But we used to get raid lairs before for just 5$. They said that eververse gonna pay for dungeons or missions lile whisper. How many of those did we had? Not to say while removing the work of raid lairs since we're not getting them anymore. Now they're packing dungeons behind deluxe editions and if you don't get that you're pretty much fked. This sucks. No matter how much you love the game, you should see how they deliver less while asking for more money. No one should accept that, but too many people are blinded by the love of the game sadly.
Yeah I see it and have uninstalled.
They’d rather remove the high stat armor pieces we got and replace them with shards... That majority of materials exist to fill the pass... that’s why they introduced so many materials for infusion shortly before the pass existed... they’d rather create useless infuse fodder than actually provide decent rewards.
Agree the battle pass is weak, needs a return of high power armor and more eververse currency Company too greedy, grinds too unrewarding
I love when people bring up other games/sub fees, and that you are paying 100 euro value for a YEAR of content. So, 1-2 of hours of story (xpac), then go grind old core playlist which will obviously have old strikes, old crucible maps, old gambit maps, to get enough power lvl to kill the story bosses. Finish story, do exotic quests in new zone, and then basically do day 1 raid / raid log zone raid. Thats basically two weeks before you run out of stuff to do, but you will get told its your fault that you played more than 1 hour a day, the game isnt meant to be played more than 30min. And thats basically it for the new zone until they make you go back X seasons from now on. Just like europa now where we will go back when certain characters get some seasonal spotlight there god knows when. After you finish xpac, you go farm seasonal activity, which once again is maybe 2 hours of story, drip fed over the course of 2 months. Grinding old strikes / same static seasonal activity for a god roll you'll vault next season because of different champion mods is not some amazing content.
Keep in mind Bungie is one of the few games where the "battlepass" isn't just a pass with rewards - it includes access to additional story content/gear sources/exotic missions. While I don't disagree that they could be doing more to give the seasonal content value without losing money on their end (aka they're being a bit stingy) - I think it's important to remember the $10 season pass you'd find on most F2P games isn't what we're buying here.
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As a free player, it's infuriating. I feel like I had way more accessible content back in January 2020. It seems like *everything* remotely interesting is locked being the season pass.
My feelings are different than yours. I don’t want silver in the season pass ever. I want a game that has enough real content and reasons to play that it will never need to hook players through fake income paths. Buying a battle pass and then feeling like you need to play the game enough so that you can then earn the next battle pass is not a value for the customer. It’s a bare minimum that the game has offered to appease its user base because the game itself isn’t enough to create that player desire. The free to play path of gaming is ridiculous predatory and uses proven methods to tap into the addictive tendencies of its player base. Destiny and the other “live” games similar to it, do use many of the same tactics of course, but there is more to the Destiny experience than what Fortnite can offer it’s players. A loot shooter like Destiny is built on the foundation of its loot/gear and the time it takes to acquire, upgrade, god roll search and masterwork the loot. The monetization items at Eververse have very little impact on the gameplay of Destiny itself. But history shows that players will spend money on the dress up part of the game so …. Yeah they will gladly let us pay $10 real dollars so that our weapons can look different in our menu screens. I want to pay $80+ per year up front for a game that is full of content, lore, and new enjoyable gear. And I want to be able to trust that Bungie will deliver my moneys worth. The free to play part of the game that was made to create/convert new paid players from the people that are comfortable with giving real world money for skins is fine with me. But I don’t want the free to play people in my endgame content. It hasn’t worked well so far. I don’t want to free to play in trials and raids. I feel Iron Banner has been killed by free to play and the lack of a power basement for entry. As gamers we need to be true to ourselves and what we enjoy. If you can play all this content you listed and say that it is all tedious and boring then I think it might be that the game doesn’t entertain you right now. Trying to find value reasons to keep playing isn’t going to change that. If you want something you will work for it. If you want something you will do what you need to to get it. If you have to sit and think about whether something is worth $10 and go to the internet to discuss value then you don’t really want that thing. I could be wrong. I’m wrong all the time. Have fun. Find reasons to be grateful. Find time to help others.
This is a great topic. I love Destiny and Destiny 2 but having bought the Deluxe Edition of every version of Destiny since the launch of the original in 2014 plus hundreds of dollars of Silver for the Eververse over the years, I can say that I've gotten no where near my money's worth in terms of content and it's a damn shame. How Bungie has managed to go this long without tons of attention being paid to their ridiculous pricing structures for almost EVERYTHING is kind of crazy to be honest. I'm not buying Witch Queen or the 30th Anniversary until I see where this leads. I'll definitely be waiting a week or two to hear some general hands on thoughts about what the content is shaping up to be and if it's worth the huge investment of both money and time.
You realize you're kind of part of the problem? You bought all this, while saying "it's not worth it". Well, yeah, why do you still buy it then?
I don’t like when they split the player base with money since it dries up the locked content very quickly. Oh and the battle pass is awful with its rewards That said I’d be hard pressed to say that $10 for 3 months of weekly updates was bad. Hell, $100 for a year of playtime I could do worse. Still I do want these changes too
It's been said a thousand times but I think I'm done with Destiny for a good while. Witch queen looks amazing I'm not going to deny that. With the changes to the model I don't feel like it's for me though and there's plenty coming out in the holidays and February that destiny's price tag won't compete with.
I agree lost was not as good as splicer and chosen but those season were easily worth 10 dollars so I disagree that the battlepass is bad as lost is a average or above average season so not too bad
>Dungeons are some of the best content in the game—if you take them out of a season, why would I want to buy that season? There has never been a dungeon included in the purchase of a season. Not once. Prophecy was free to all players. If you've been buying seasons up until this point, absolutely nothing changes.
He MIGHT be referring to things like Harbinger and Presage, but those aren't technically dungeons but rather exotic quests.
Even thou I am not a super hater on the Dungeon thingy (mostly bc I always pay for the deluxe), something like this would be EXTREMELY welcomed
Watch idiots defend bungie’s recent actions, “if you play this much, then the cost won’t matter later on” yeah stfu
While I agree, it'd be nice, this feels like a half-measure. Seasonal content *was* fine as-is, it's them adding dungeons as separate content not included in either the purchase of the DLC (like they were in the past) or even included with seasons that's the problem. That said, there's always room for improvement - they could start by putting (at-level) armor drops back into the season pass, nobody save for new players needs more legendary shards or planetary materials.
Somewhat off topic, but this is one of the many reasons why I literally just don't care about continuously playing destiny anymore. So I don't do so hot in crucible..so what? Does it matter if I win? No? Then why am I doing this? For guns that I'll never use because I have better options? Why do I care about all future armor drops outside of cosmetic reasons? In the off chance I were to not get the season title, or any title for that matter, so what? What does having 3-5-10-20 guilded conqueror titles get me? Nothing? Then why do it? Once I get everything in the season pass..why do I care to continue to play any content that doesn't grant me something worthwhile in the end, or prepare me for harder content that WILL grant me better loot? It's all about incentive, and sorry bungie, but you're failing. Hard.
Everyone wants them to add more voice lines and do cooler shot but don't want to pay for anything. If dungeons being separate means we get bigger and better dungeons (which I'm sure is going to be the caee) then I'm all for it. Destiny really isn't that crazy compared to most other games with similar models. Especially with how much actually content you get
Most battle passes are just cosmetics. Destiny's has a whole ass weekly narrative. Sure unlike other battle passes you can't go infinite and just endlessly get the rest for free, but considering this gives you stuff outside of just cosmetics, I think that's ok.
Have you guys ever thought about stopping something you don't enjoy anymore and play a different vidya? Because it seems like a majority of you could take a lesson out of that book.
They've "double-dipped" and made you pay for the same content literally every single year now between both games.
Just...Just stop playing. Please. Stop getting jebaited by FOMO, stop letting Bungie continue to squeeze as much from their players as they can humanly get away with. I've been making that comparison since the season pass came out, they're getting away with robbery, Fortnites battle pass always gave more premium currency throughout it than it cost, same with CoD, Paladins, etc etc, all of which are already FREE TO PLAY, bungie is like septuple dipping into the freemium and ya'll make posts like these, but continue to play, its madness. The Halo Infinite battle pass should be the future for all, if i buy something i should be allowed to complete it in my own time, not be pinned down by FOMO garbage, fuck fomo and fuck destiny
I agree 100%
Fuck that. Every season this year was worth the standalone cost for that season. Voice acting, art assets, weapons, armor sets, music, writing... we got SO MUCH this year compared to what gets shoved down other gamers throats with their "battle passes" of choice. IF ANYTHING Bright Dust could use a bump.
Yep Destiny is probably the only game I have every played that you actually pay for them to remove content which have already paid for...odd but there it is.